Thread: Obama outlines health care plan for all

Originally Posted by galeane29

And because it's posted on that website it makes it truth? Pffft!

You guys kill me when you say things like 'because Malkin and Palin tell you' Um, have you looked at what your 'believing'? It's just another website y'all decide to trust. I went straight to the bill itself. The wording is very clear. It does not say 'death panel' exactly. Take a gander at it sometime.

Yep, you've proved my point. Several of them actually.

UMM if the death panel is false then why is there a end of life panel to begin with, it can be interpreted as being a death panel the way it was written plus if they care for live of people so much then why do they introduce a death panel type thing for the veterans? If they are to treat our veterans like this then how will the treat the rest of us when we are old and ill?
---- This is simply evil.

The Death Book for Veterans by Jim Towey
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...107981718.html


Quote:
If President Obama wants to better understand why America's discomfort with end-of-life discussions threatens to derail his health-care reform, he might begin with his own Department of Veterans Affairs (VA). He will quickly discover how government bureaucrats are greasing the slippery slope that can start with cost containment but quickly become a systematic denial of care.

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices" It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use.

Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices."

Who is the primary author of this workbook? Dr. Robert Pearlman, chief of ethics evaluation for the center, a man who in 1996 advocated for physician-assisted suicide in Vacco v. Quill before the U.S. Supreme Court and is known for his support of health-care rationing.

"Your Life, Your Choices" presents end-of-life choices in a way aimed at steering users toward predetermined conclusions, much like a political "push poll." For example, a worksheet on page 21 lists various scenarios and asks users to then decide whether their own life would be "not worth living."

The circumstances listed include ones common among the elderly and disabled: living in a nursing home, being in a wheelchair and not being able to "shake the blues." There is a section which provocatively asks, "Have you ever heard anyone say, 'If I'm a vegetable, pull the plug'?" There also are guilt-inducing scenarios such as "I can no longer contribute to my family's well being," "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and that the vet's situation "causes severe emotional burden for my family."

When the government can steer vulnerable individuals to conclude for themselves that life is not worth living, who needs a death panel?

One can only imagine a soldier surviving the war in Iraq and returning without all of his limbs only to encounter a veteran's health-care system that seems intent on his surrender.

I was not surprised to learn that the VA panel of experts that sought to update "Your Life, Your Choices" between 2007-2008 did not include any representatives of faith groups or disability rights advocates. And as you might guess, only one organization was listed in the new version as a resource on advance directives: the Hemlock Society (now euphemistically known as "Compassion and Choices").

This hurry-up-and-die message is clear and unconscionable. Worse, a July 2009 VA directive instructs its primary care physicians to raise advance care planning with all VA patients and to refer them to "Your Life, Your Choices." Not just those of advanced age and debilitated condition—all patients. America's 24 million veterans deserve better.

Many years ago I created an advance care planning document called "Five Wishes" that is today the most widely used living will in America, with 13 million copies in national circulation. Unlike the VA's document, this one does not contain the standard bias to withdraw or withhold medical care. It meets the legal requirements of at least 43 states, and it runs exactly 12 pages.

After a decade of observing end-of-life discussions, I can attest to the great fear that many patients have, particularly those with few family members and financial resources. I lived and worked in an AIDS home in the mid-1980s and saw first-hand how the dying wanted more than health care—they wanted someone to care.

If President Obama is sincere in stating that he is not trying to cut costs by pressuring the disabled to forgo critical care, one good way to show that commitment is to walk two blocks from the Oval Office and pull the plug on "Your Life, Your Choices." He should make sure in the future that VA decisions are guided by values that treat the lives of our veterans as gifts, not burdens. [emphasis added]


Mr. Towey, president of Saint Vincent College, was director of the White House Office of Faith-Based Initiatives (2002-2006) and founder of the nonprofit Aging with Dignity.



I'd like to know exactly who is responsible for bringing this pamphlet back after the Bush admin removed it. Is there a Death Czar? I mean, a Death Czar per se?

Haven't looked at the whole thing yet, but see page 21: "What makes your life worth living?"


a. I can no longer walk but get around in a wheelchair.
b. I can no longer get outside—I spend all day at home.
c. I can no longer contribute to my family's well being.
d. I am in severe pain most of the time.
e. I have severe discomfort most of the time (such as
nausea, diarrhea, or shortness of breath).
f. I rely on a feeding tube to keep me alive.
g. I rely on a kidney dialysis machine to keep me alive.
h. I rely on a breathing machine to keep me alive.
i. I need someone to help take care of me all of time.
j. I can no longer control my bladder.
k. I can no longer control my bowels.
l. I live in a nursing home.
m. I can no longer think clearly-I am confused all the time.
n. I can no longer recognize family/friends
o. I can no longer talk and be understood by others.
p. My situation causes severe emotional burden for my
family (such as feeling worried or stressed all the time).
q. I am a severe financial burden on my family.
r. I cannot seem to “shake the blues.”


To the right of these statements is the heading, "Life like this would be:" and the choices:



difficult but acceptable
worth living, but just barely
not worth living
can't answer now

At the bottom of the page:


If you checked "worth living, but just barely" for more than one factor, would a combination of these factors make your life "not worth living?" If so, which factors?

If you checked "not worth living," does this mean that you would rather die than be kept alive?

a. I can no longer walk but get around in a wheelchair.
b. I can no longer get outside—I spend all day at home.
c. I can no longer contribute to my family's well being.
d. I am in severe pain most of the time.
e. I have severe discomfort most of the time (such as
nausea, diarrhea, or shortness of breath).
f. I rely on a feeding tube to keep me alive.
g. I rely on a kidney dialysis machine to keep me alive.
h. I rely on a breathing machine to keep me alive.
i. I need someone to help take care of me all of time.
j. I can no longer control my bladder.
k. I can no longer control my bowels.
l. I live in a nursing home.
m. I can no longer think clearly-I am confused all the time.
n. I can no longer recognize family/friends
o. I can no longer talk and be understood by others.
p. My situation causes severe emotional burden for my
family (such as feeling worried or stressed all the time).
q. I am a severe financial burden on my family.
r. I cannot seem to “shake the blues.”

Christopher Reeves could've checked off a lot of those questions.....thank goodness he didn't have the depression to go with it (or he treated his depression)......I know he didn't want his 'plug pulled'.

FACT CHECK: Obama uses iffy math on deficit pledge
Calvin Woodward And Erica Werner, Associated Press Writers
Thu Sep 10, 3:15 am ET

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama used only-in-Washington accounting Wednesday when he promised to overhaul the nation's health care system without adding "one dime" to the deficit. By conventional arithmetic, Democratic plans would drive up the deficit by billions of dollars.

The president's speech to Congress contained a variety of oversimplifications and omissions in laying out what he wants to do about health insurance.

A look at some of Obama's claims and how they square with the facts or the fuller story:

___

OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it — the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this "doc fix" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: "We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount."

___

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change.

___

OBAMA: "The reforms I'm proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally." One congressman, South Carolina Republican Joe Wilson, shouted "You lie!" from his seat in the House chamber when Obama made this assertion. Wilson later apologized.

THE FACTS: The facts back up Obama. The House version of the health care bill explicitly prohibits spending any federal money to help illegal immigrants get health care coverage. Illegal immigrants could buy private health insurance, as many do now, but wouldn't get tax subsidies to help them. Still, Republicans say there are not sufficient citizenship verification requirements to ensure illegal immigrants are excluded from benefits they are not due.

___

OBAMA: "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare."

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't.

___

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care — particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions — actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money.

___

OBAMA: "If you lose your job or change your job, you will be able to get coverage. If you strike out on your own and start a small business, you will be able to get coverage."

THE FACTS: It's not just a matter of being able to get coverage. Most people would have to get coverage under the law, if his plan is adopted.

In his speech, Obama endorsed mandatory coverage for individuals, an approach he did not embrace as a candidate.

He proposed during the campaign — as he does now — that larger businesses be required to offer insurance to workers or else pay into a fund. But he rejected the idea of requiring individuals to obtain insurance. He said people would get insurance without being forced to do so by the law, if coverage were made affordable. And he repeatedly criticized his Democratic primary rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, for proposing to mandate coverage.

"To force people to get health insurance, you've got to have a very harsh penalty," he said in a February 2008 debate.

Now, he says, "individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance — just as most states require you to carry auto insurance."

He proposes a hardship waiver, exempting from the requirement those who cannot afford coverage despite increased federal aid.

___

OBAMA: "There are now more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage."

THE FACTS: Obama time and again has referred to the number of uninsured as 46 million, a figure based on year-old Census data. The new number is based on an analysis by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and the Uninsured, which concluded that about two-thirds of Americans without insurance are poor or near poor. "These individuals are less likely to be offered employer-sponsored coverage or to be able to afford to purchase their own coverage," the report said. By using the new figure, Obama avoids criticism that he is including individuals, particularly healthy young people, who choose not to obtain health insurance.

___

Associated Press writer Jim Kuhnhenn contributed to this report.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090910/...are_fact_check

Originally Posted by janelle

] Obama keeps saying we are in the worse economic crisis since the Great Depression then goes on to sell this health care bill which will cost, he says, 900 billion. Does this make any sense to anybody? If we are in such crisis then the government has no right to pass this bill until the finances are in better shape. The whole thing is crazy but then spending oneself into prosperity doesn't make sense to anybody but a politician.

Not to mention the fact that they want to spend all this money ... but many of the "plans" are not do to fruitian until 2013... so much for the "urgency"

I agree, we have some of the worst doctors here it seems and they should be sued for their crime of not doing their job right! Like a anthesiologist that killed a girl by trying to stuff the tube down here throat before she was completely asleep and cut a main artery, and to make matters worse he cauterized it, she had the surgery went home and came back later because she bled to death! The hospital tried to cover it up instead of getting a vascular surgeon to repair the damage so she would live... Don't tell me that the doctor and hospital shouldn't have been sued for millions for this! They should have also gone to jail but they didn't!!

Originally Posted by hblueeyes

If the numbers the Dems spew is correct, 47 million in US without healthcare, then that means they are doing all of this for less than 10% of the US population. How crazy is that.

Tort and cap reform, HELL NO!!!!!!. I am sorry but if the doc and/or the hospital, f up and amputate my right leg instead of the left, then I deserve $100 billion for that screw up. It my not affect my income but my life would sure change. I could not play running bases with my grand kids, teach them how to skip, etc.

How about making the doctors and hospitals accountable? Hospitals pass off bad Docs to get them out of their hair by not telling their new hospital of the concerns and problems they had with the bad docs. It is just like how cops cover for one another. Hospitals and docs do the same. Protect their own. So why should we cap our ability to receive compensation?

Me

another interesting article, the government wants to track us, they want to know every essence of our lives. Microchips!!! Will people be rounded up and put in camps if they contract the swine flu or any other thing they determine to be a bio threat whether or not it is life threatening? Swine flu is no more life threatening than the regular flu but companies can make big bucks with vaccines..

LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER
Next step in H1N1 scare: Microchip implants
Company developing under-the-skin devices to detect 'bio-threats'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 22, 2009
11:50 pm Eastern


By Drew Zahn
© 2009 WorldNetDaily



VeriChip's microchip implant, about the size of a grain of rice

A Florida-based company that boasts selling the world's first and only federally approved radio microchip for implanting in humans is now turning its development branch toward "emergency preparedness," hoping to produce an implant that can automatically detect in its host's bloodstream the presence of swine flu or other viruses deemed a "bio-threat."

VeriChip Corporation currently sells a small, under-the-skin Radio Frequency Identification capsule, or RFID, that patients can opt to have implanted, containing a number computer-linked to their medical records, enabling doctors with a special reader to access the information even if the patient is unconscious or unidentified. The company boasts its microchip, roughly the size of a grain of rice, is the only such implant approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

But VeriChip has also turned its attention to other uses for the technology, including microchips that be used to tag and log human remains after a disaster and implants the company hopes will be able to warn if their host is infected with the H1N1 swine flu virus, the H5N1 bird flu virus or other pandemic agents deemed to be a "bio-threat."

VeriChip is working with a Minnesota company, Receptors LLC, to develop the virus-detection technology.

"As we continue to build on our partnership with Receptors, which started with the development of a glucose-sensing RFID implantable microchip, we are moving beyond patient identification to sensors that can detect and identify illnesses and viruses such as influenza," said Scott R. Silverman, chairman of VeriChip, in a statement. "This is an exciting next step for the future of our healthcare division."




According to a joint white paper released earlier this year by both companies called "An Integrated Sensor System for the Detection of Bio-Threats from Pandemics to Emerging Diseases to Bio-Terrorism," the research's goal is to transform existing glucose-detection technology into pinpointing viruses instead, then couple it with an "in vivo" – meaning implanted inside a living organism – microchip that can alert others of the virus' presence.

The ultimate goal is to develop an implant that can also diagnose which virus is infecting the host.

VeriChip has also announced earlier this month additional forays into emergency preparedness through its VeriTrace system.

According to a statement, the company sold a VeriTrace system, including 1,000 RFID microchips, to Kentucky's Green River District Health Department "for disaster preparedness and emergency management needs."

The company explains that VeriTrace, a separate system from its virus detection or patient records technology, was created in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, where it was used by the Federal Disaster Mortuary Operational Response Team. The system includes the microchips, a Bluetooth handheld reader, a customized camera that receives both RFID scanned data and GPS data wirelessly and a web-based database for storing information and images captured during emergency response operations.

The microchips are implanted in human remains following a disaster or, according to one report from the Katrina catastrophe, duct-taped to bones, in order to maintain detailed records, particularly in events that result in hundreds or thousands of fatalities.

"This database ensures the precise collection, storage and inventory of all data and images related to remains and the associated evidentiary items," the statement boasts. "This also allows the recreation of an accurate and complete reconstruction of a disaster setting, crime scene or similar setting where recreation is necessary."

Since Hurricane Katrina, the RFID Journal reports, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, the Hawaii Department of Health

, the Florida Emergency Mortuary Operations Response System and the medical examiner's office in the Department of Heath in Erie County, N.Y, have also purchased the system. Earlier this year, VeriChip announced sales to Maryland's Calvert Memorial Hospital and to Mercer and Atlantic counties in New Jersey.

WND contacted VeriChip seeking information on its progress in developing the virus detection technology and other emergency preparedness microchip implants, but received no response.

WND previously has reported on such chips when hospitals used them to identify newborns, VeriChip desired to embed immigrants with the electronic devices, a government health event showcased them and when Wal-Mart used microchips to track customers.