Thread: email fodder............

Subject: Dark and Best kept Secrets about our Social Security.


I think a lot of us know about this but I thought I would pass it on if you missed.




Dark and best kept secrets about Our Social Security.

Many years ago in Seattle, two wonderful neighbors,
Elliott and Patty Roosevelt came to my home to swim on
a regular basis. They were a great couple full of
laughter and stories that today I continue to marvel
at. Both are now deceased, but their stories remain.
During the years of our friendship we had many, many
discussions about Elliott's parents (President Franklin D.
and Eleanor Roosevelt) and how his father and mother
never intended for the Social Security and Welfare
programs to turn out the way they are today. Elliott
used to say that if his parents returned to earth and
saw what the politicians had done to their programs
they would have burned all of them in hell.

Here is a story I received today regarding the Social
Security Program and I immediately thought of
Elliott's comments. I Hope you will read
this and think about it.
_____________________________________________

Franklin Roosevelt, a Democrat, introduced the Social
Security (FICA) Program. He promised:

1.) That participation in the Program would be
completely voluntary,

2.) That the participants would only have to pay
1% of the first $1,400 of their annual
incomes into the Program,

3.) That the money the participants elected to put
into the Program would be deductible from
their income for tax purposes each year,

4.) That the money the participants put into the
independent "Trust Fund" rather than into the
General operating fund, and therefore, would
only be used to fund the Social Security
Retirement Program, and no other
Government program, and,

5.) That the annuity payments to the retirees
would never be taxed as income

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Since many of us have paid into FICA for years and are
now receiving a Social Security check every month --
and then finding that we are getting taxed on 85% of
the money we paid to the Federal government to "put
away" -- you may be interested in the following:
-------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Political Party took Social Security from the
independent "Trust Fund" and put it into the
General fund so that Congress could spend it?
A: It was Lyndon Johnson and the democratically
controlled House and Senate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party eliminated the income tax
deduction for Social Security (FICA) withholding?

A: The Democratic Party.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Which Political Party started taxing Social
Security annuities????
A: The Democratic Party, with Al Gore casting the
"tie-breaking" deciding vote as President of the
Senate, while he was Vice President of the US .

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Q: Which Political Party decided to start giving
annuity payments to immigrants?

This is MY FAVORITE:

A: That's right! Jimmy Carter! And the Democratic Party of course!
Immigrants moved into this country, and at age 65,
began to receive Social Security payments! The
Democratic Party gave these payments to them,
even though they never paid a dime into it!
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, after doing all this lying and thieving and violating
of the original contract (FICA), the Democrats
turn around and tell you that the Republicans
want to take your Social Security away!

And the worst part about it is uninformed
citizens believe it!

==============================================

If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of
awareness will be planted and maybe changes will
evolve. Maybe not!.. many Democrats are awfully
sure of what isn't so!!

But it's worth a try. How many people can
YOU send this to?
Actions speak louder than bumper stickers.
Forward this E-mail to others so that they can
be informed of the truth.




"THE ONLY THING NEEDED FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING"

EDMUND BURKE ...



Got this in an email.....I couldn't find anything about it on snopes....true?

ETA: found on snopes, not totally false..... http://www.snopes.com/politics/socia...ty/changes.asp

This what I could find


http://www.factcheck.org/2009/03/fdr...cial-security/

FDR’s “Voluntary” Social Security


Q: Did FDR promise that Social Security would be voluntary? Did Democrats end tax deductions for Social Security withholding?

A: Social Security has never been voluntary and taxes paid to support it have never been deductible from federal income taxes. A widely e-mailed "history lesson" gets nearly all its facts wrong.

FULL ANSWER

This elaborate collection of falsehoods is so detailed that we believe it must be an intentional and malicious effort at disinformation. It grafts some new whoppers on top of a list that we debunked in April 2004, in a special report we called "Lies in the E-mail, Part 2." The earlier version, we said, was "full of laughably inaccurate claims," and this one is worse.

FDR Never Promised That

We’ll address the newer claims first, specifically the five "promises" supposedly made by President Franklin D. Roosevelt at the inception of the Social Security system in 1935. We rely here on no less an authority than the official historian of the Social Security System, Larry DeWitt, who has written up a detailed response to these claims under the heading "Myths and Misinformation About Social Security," which can be found on the Social Security History Web page, along with answers to other frequently asked questions.

Not Voluntary. Contrary to the e-mail’s very first claim, FDR never promised that "the program would be completely voluntary." It is supported by taxes and participation has never been voluntary. As historian DeWitt states: "From the first days of the program to the present, anyone working on a job covered by Social Security has been obligated to pay their payroll taxes. "

Not 1 Percent. Another false claim is that FDR promised participants would pay only "1% of the first $1,400" of income. The law FDR signed taxed income up to $3,000, for one thing. And while the rate was 1 percent for the first few years, the law FDR signed raised it incrementally in 1940, 1943, 1946 and 1949, when it reached 3 percent.

Not Deductible. Also false is the statement that Social Security contributions "would be deductible from their income for tax purposes." The opposite is true. Section 803 of the law Roosevelt signed specifically says Social Security payroll taxes "shall not be allowed as a deduction to the taxpayer in computing his net income for the year." So the claim made later in the e-mail – that Democrats "eliminated the income tax deduction" for payroll taxes – cannot possibly be true. There was never a deduction to eliminate.
Update, March 27: An alert reader points out that self-employed persons must pay "self-employment tax," which is a Social Security and Medicare tax similar to the taxes withheld from the pay of most wage earners. Half of the SE tax is indeed deductible when figuring adjusted gross income for federal income tax purposes. However, the SE tax deduction has not been eliminated, not by "the Democratic party" or by anybody else.


Trust Fund Falsehoods. The message claims that FDR promised Social Security funds would be used "for no other government program," but that Lyndon Johnson and a Democratic Congress later took Social Security into the General Fund "so that Congress could spend it." This is twisted history. The government has always been able to use Social Security funds for other purposes when not needed to finance benefits. As DeWitt states: "[T]here has never been any change in the way the Social Security program is financed or the way that Social Security payroll taxes are used by the federal government." All LBJ did in 1968 was to make Social Security taxes and spending part of a "unified budget." As DeWitt notes, this was an accounting issue and "has no affect on the actual operations of the [Social Security] Trust Fund itself."

Taxation of benefits. The e-mail also gets it wrong when it claims that Roosevelt promised that "annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income." It’s true that Social Security benefits weren’t taxed at first, but DeWitt writes that this was the result of a series of administrative rulings by the Treasury Department, not the result of Roosevelt’s law or anything he did or promised. And contrary to a false claim made later in the e-mail, it was not Democrats alone who "started taxing Social Security annuities." Congress authorized taxation of Social Security benefits in 1983, when Republicans controlled the Senate, and the measure was signed into law by President Ronald Reagan, a Republican. The measure was part of a bipartisan compromise to shore up the finances of the system, which were then on the verge of collapse.
Nixon’s Gift to Immigrants

Another huge whopper in this e-mail is the claim that President Jimmy Carter and the Democratic Party "decided to start giving annuity payments to immigrants … even though they never paid a dime into it." In truth, no illegal immigrant is allowed to get a penny of Social Security retirement benefits, as this message implies. (We address more false claims on that theme in another Ask FactCheck.) And any immigrant who has become a citizen or legal resident can qualify only to the extent that they have worked and paid into the system for years, on the same basis as everybody else.

The earlier version of this e-mail made this claim only about the SSI program – the Supplemental Security Income program for the blind, disabled or elderly and destitute. But the truth is, that program was signed into law by Republican President Richard Nixon in 1972. Under Nixon’s SSI law, legal immigrants were eligible for benefits from the start. It is a federal welfare program funded out of general tax revenues and is separate from the Social Security old-age pensions and disability insurance programs funded out of dedicated payroll taxes. While Social Security benefits are paid to those who have paid payroll taxes for a certain minimum period of time, SSI benefits were available to all – citizens and legal residents alike – regardless of whether they had "paid a dime into it" or not.

Fake Jefferson Quote

The e-mail signs off with a quote that supposedly comes from Thomas Jefferson: "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have." But Jefferson never said that.

According to Monticello researchers and Jefferson scholars who maintain the online Jefferson Encyclopedia: "We have never found such a statement in Jefferson’s writings. As far as we know, this statement actually originates with [Republican President] Gerald R. Ford, who said, "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have," in an address to a joint session of Congress on August 12, 1974."

The author of this urges others to send this message on, smugly suggesting,"If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted." Hardly. What’s really being spread are seeds of ignorance – and a pack of clumsy lies.

-Brooks Jackson

Sources
DeWitt, Larry, "FAQs; Debunking Some Internet Myths; MYTHS AND MISINFORMATION ABOUT SOCIAL SECURITY" Social Security Administration undated Web page accessed 24 March 2009.

"Legislative History; Social Security Act of 1935" Sections 801 & 803." Social Security Administration undated Web page accessed 24 March 2009.

DeWitt, Larry, "Agency History; Research Notes & Special Studies by the Historian’s Office; /research Note #12: Taxation of Social Security Benefits" Social Security Administration Web page dated Feb 2001, accessed 24 March 2009.

Jackson, Brooks "Lies in the E-mail, Part 2" FactCheck.org Special Report 14 April 2004.

Jefferson Encyclopedia "Government big enough to supply you . . . (Quotation)" Web site article dated 6 March 2009, accessed 24 March 2009.

So much of this is false that I don't know where to begin.

First of all...at this time, Social Security is NOT part of the General Fund. In fact, several years ago Congress passed a law to keep SS separate. I say at this time because Congress could always change that. So as constituents, we need to be aware of what is happening. However, quite honestly, I think the AARP lobbyists...which are some of the strongest in Washington...would keep on top of that and prevent that from happening.

Also...immigrants who make no payments into Social Security do not collect Social Security. You have to pay into the fund for 40 quarters to be eligible for a benefit. Now, these so-called immigrants may collect Supplemental Security Income (SSI) which is a welfare benefit. These benefit is also administered by the Social Security Administration but it comes from entirely different funds and does not come from the retirement benefits side.

One thing that was right from the original post is that Social Security is not now being administered as it was originally designed. It was NEVER meant to be one's sole source of retirement income...but it was only suppose to be retirement income. It later changed to include survivor's benefits.

My husband has worked for Social Security for 38 years. His job title is technical expert and he frequently is sent out to community conferences, fairs, etc. to represent the agency. When I showed him this post, he just laughed. He said lies about SS seem to circulate almost weekly on the internet and people rarely want to hear the truth.

Originally Posted by Kelsey1224

So much of this is false that I don't know where to begin.

Yep it is, that's why I posted the above from Fact Check. Too many people take some of these emails that get twisted as the truth. The truth is far different then what is presented.

As the OP title says, "fodder" not "fact".....I wasn't sure just how much of it was true. Thanks

Originally Posted by pepperpot

As the OP title says, "fodder" not "fact".....I wasn't sure just how much of it was true. Thanks

Hey Pepper, wasn't implying that you believed it. Just that there are too many that do. I've been in Philly for 3 days and am just getting around to checking out the board.

Originally Posted by pepperpot

As the OP title says, "fodder" not "fact".....I wasn't sure just how much of it was true. Thanks

Yes...but you also posted

I think a lot of us know about this but I thought I would pass it on if you missed.

so I wasn't sure if you knew how much of it was NOT fact.

And...in posting so much that isn't true just perpetuates the falsehood because people don't read it all.

But...at least this thread gets the truth out...until next week when a new lie about SSN starts circulating.

Originally Posted by Kelsey1224

YesAnd...in posting so much that isn't true just perpetuates the falsehood because people don't read it all.

But...at least this thread gets the truth out...until next week when a new lie about SSN starts circulating.

Amen to that...

Originally Posted by Kelsey1224

Yes...but you also posted so I wasn't sure if you knew how much of it was NOT fact.

And...in posting so much that isn't true just perpetuates the falsehood because people don't read it all.

But...at least this thread gets the truth out...until next week when a new lie about SSN starts circulating.

This was the only part that I commented on....the rest was part of the email I received............

Got this in an email.....I couldn't find anything about it on snopes....true?

ETA: found on snopes, not totally false..... http://www.snopes.com/politics/socia...ty/changes.asp

This was part of the original email....

I think a lot of us know about this but I thought I would pass it on if you missed.

I don't always agree that posting these kinds of emails creates more 'believers' of them....if anything, I think they dispell the myths and untruths....

I wasn't implying that posting these made believers of people. It's more like the people that pass them on as the gospel truth without doing some research perpetuate the false material.