Thread: Welcome to SOCIALIST Healthcare

Originally Posted by IthinkNOT!

I never said I expected it to be free, I was just saying that around here at least, the insurance determines the quality of care you receive. Alot of times if you are paying cash, you not only pay a higher price, you also don't get the same treatment and testing. For example, one of the times I went to a dentist with a toothache, it was only hurting when I ate, there was a cavity. The dentist recommended a medicated filling, and some antibiotics, to be followed up by a permanent filling in a couple of weeks. When he found out I didn't have insurance, that course of action changed entirely, then he wanted to extract and be done with it. I no longer had a say so because I didn't have an insurance card in my pocket. My choices were to get an extraction or continue experiencing pain. Here if that was passed it would be a level playing field for everyone.

Wrong....the choice would be to extract, not save...... Do you really think that if the government was paying the bill you'd get the optimum care? Hardly......

My choices were to get an extraction or continue experiencing pain.

....or to negotiate with your dentist a payment plan to do the filling and anti-biotic route......many dentists now accept credit cards as well....you had options, you chose not to take them.....

go re-read Daschle's comment.....

The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs. He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.
Elderly Hardest Hit

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Your 'options' will be sub-standard care....like a dog.....only you'll die on your own, it's too expensive to 'put you to sleep' or treat you humanely.....

Originally Posted by IthinkNOT!

I'll play devils advocate here.

Picture this, 60 year old man, has had regular check ups all his life and been deemed perfectly healthy. The last check up being only a month before his medicare kicked in. As soon as medicare kicks in, at his next check up, he mysteriously pops up with all of these ailments. His blood sugar was a point or 2 high, so they deem him diabetic, and prescribe testing and medication for that. His cholesterol, which was fine 6 months ago, is now a tad high, more testing and meds. The slight aches and pains that he feels on rainy days, that his doctor said a few months ago were normal for his age and to take tylenol, are now considered a serious problem, and yet another med is prescribed. The story goes on, until a man who was supposedly perfectly healthy 6 months before ends up on 15 different medications daily. What makes the difference? The fact that his bill is picked up by medicare.

I am not saying by any means to let our seniors suffer. What I am saying, is as our bodies get older there are certain things that aren't going to work like they did when we were 20, and no matter what the doctor prescribes, he is still not going to turn back that clock.

The society we live in is so quick to prescribe a pill for anything, here take this, it'll go away, but the pill you took to make it go away, will cause 15 other things to go wrong, then you get more meds to fix the new problems.

So, let them suffer? No, not by any means. But yes do accept the fact that an 80 year old will never be 20 again, they will move a little slower, may have the OCCASIONAL aches and pains. As long as they can still have a good quality of life, then let it be. Now, if something affects that quality of life, do every thing possible to correct it.

There's no 'devil's advocate' here....one can always refuse the right to treatment..... On many occassions, my mother requested her meds reduced as she felt she did not want to take so many....and they were fully covered too........

By limiting them their options, saying they are 'too old' (basically telling them they are useless and not worth it) and should start 'packing it in' is a disgrace. They deserve and have worked for all the options in healthcare that the 20 years old would be offered....only they deserve it more, they worked and paid into it....

Originally Posted by gmyers

I can understand the government having a say if you're using medicare or medicaid but not if you have private insurance. It sounds like the insurance companies have done some major lobbying to get that put in there. I don't like the idea of some person that doesn't know my health situation making the decisions for me.

I don't see that either. Why should the government get to say who gets what treatment, just because they are on medicaid or medicare? I know it is taxpayers money and all that. But everyone should have a right to a good quality of life. By quality of life I mean regular check ups, if there is a problem try to correct it before it gets out of hand. Whether a person is on medicaid or medicare should not dictate the care they get. Think about it, if your leg hurts, does it hurt any more or less depending on the insurance you have? No, your leg doesn't understand that. At the same time, it is time to cut out the frivolous things that these programs pay for. No more plastic surgery, or boob jobs or liposuction, unless in cases of extreme disfigurement.

Originally Posted by IthinkNOT!

I don't see that either. Why should the government get to say who gets what treatment, just because they are on medicaid or medicare? I know it is taxpayers money and all that. But everyone should have a right to a good quality of life. By quality of life I mean regular check ups, if there is a problem try to correct it before it gets out of hand. Whether a person is on medicaid or medicare should not dictate the care they get. Think about it, if your leg hurts, does it hurt any more or less depending on the insurance you have? No, your leg doesn't understand that. At the same time, it is time to cut out the frivolous things that these programs pay for. No more plastic surgery, or boob jobs or liposuction, unless in cases of extreme disfigurement.

So when your leg hurts...instead of a costly and lengthy antibiotic treatment...cut it off....both are 'acceptable' as 'adequate' health care...

BTDT....I have fought with different health insurance companies over 'adequate treatment'......do you really think the government is going to provide 'premium' health care? You are fooling yourself if you do.

The current system is not great, but it can be improved....the alternative, what is being proposed and instituted by Obama is not better....

Originally Posted by pepperpot

Wrong....the choice would be to extract, not save...... Do you really think that if the government was paying the bill you'd get the optimum care? Hardly......


Never said that I would receive optimum care, just said that the playing field would be level, which means that we would be equal.


....or to negotiate with your dentist a payment plan to do the filling and anti-biotic route......many dentists now accept credit cards as well....you had options, you chose not to take them.....

No, I had no options. I offered to pay cash for each visit when I came for the visit. I just wasn't going to pay for everything up front. For instance, I was going to pay for that days visit and work done on that day, and then return for the next visit and pay for that visit and work done. That wasn't good enough.

go re-read Daschle's comment.....


Your 'options' will be sub-standard care....like a dog.....only you'll die on your own, it's too expensive to 'put you to sleep' or treat you humanely.....

And where do you live that you don't see that this already happens? That would be nothing new, all it would mean was that folks with more money couldn't buy their way into better treatment.

No, I had no options. I offered to pay cash for each visit when I came for the visit. I just wasn't going to pay for everything up front. For instance, I was going to pay for that days visit and work done on that day, and then return for the next visit and pay for that visit and work done. That wasn't good enough.

You had options....did you have a credit card? Was he the only dentist? Could you not borrow the money?

Never said that I would receive optimum care, just said that the playing field would be level, which means that we would be equal.

You'd get crap care from crap doctors....are those options you want? Even if you could 'afford it'....your options are 'crap'?

And where do you live that you don't see that this already happens?

There are different levels right now as to treatment of what is paid into it (what you can afford)...that goes hand and hand (not always) with the effort and sacrifice made upon the recipient.

I need to find an article that I saw the other day referenced on BBF from 2007 (I think) where this little girl was speaking (spokes person) about affordable healthcare and her afflictions and it was found out that her parents had a family business that opted out of private healthcare insurance but was paying thousands of dollars per year for their tuition and crying poverty. It was one of Jolie's posts.....sickening.

Here it is.... http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-inf...d#post95695706

Originally Posted by IthinkNOT!

That would be nothing new, all it would mean was that folks with more money couldn't buy their way into better treatment.

Healthcare premiums may be 'expensive' for some, but it's not 'boat loads' of money and not totally out of reach.....it's not just the 'upper crust' that can afford health insurance. It's a priority in one's financial picture and should be treated as such.

Originally Posted by pepperpot

So when your leg hurts...instead of a costly and lengthy antibiotic treatment...cut it off....both are 'acceptable' as 'adequate' health care...

BTDT....I have fought with different health insurance companies over 'adequate treatment'......do you really think the government is going to provide 'premium' health care? You are fooling yourself if you do.

Again, never said anything about "premium" health care.

The current system is not great, but it can be improved....the alternative, what is being proposed and instituted by Obama is not better....

And no, what is being proposed by BO is not better, never said that it was, just said it would level the playing field. But our current system needs some definite work.

I live in eastern North Carolina. Where I live, I see almost on a daily basis, how our current system is failing. Our area is among the poorest in the state, if not the United States. For many reasons.

I am sure most people think, well they are poor because they just don't work, but that is not always the case. We have our share of losers that live off of the system,

but we also have a fair share of people who bust their rear ends everyday to put a meal on the table and a roof over their head in the best way they know how. We have people that were farmers their whole lives, or fishermen, which paid their bills, but now by some problems not their fault, are unable to work. Some didn't have the opportunities, or if they had the opportunity didn't know just how much that opportunity meant, to get a higher education. They thought that they could live out their lives the same way their parents before them did. Unfortunately, things didn't work that way.

And these are the people that get left out. These are the people that if their leg hurts, often don't get to go to the doctor until it is too late. They have to choose between eating and going to a doctor. Those yearly check ups that we hear so many talk about? Yeah, there are people here who haven't had a check up in years because of inability to pay. Those check ups are very important, but so many here don't see those.

So, then you hear people complain, well why should my money go to help them, they haven't paid any taxes, and look at it like they haven't worked.

In this area, any health care would make a difference, whether it be premium or not.

In my English class, I had to do a community profile for the town I live in. In my research, I found that we have so many doctors, and are so close to so many specialists. Then found that so many people are uninsured, and saw that 50% of our population makes less than 25,000 a year. I thought it was such a shame. It's almost like being thirsty, with water all around you, but you can't drink it.

I acknowledge that some get 'left out'.....but to change the entire system for a (relatively) few who do not know better and/or are unwilling to change their ways or perhaps move to follow employment or retrain themselves in another field should bring down the whole system and lower the standards for everyone is not fair neither....correct what is wrong with this system.....it's not that they do not deserve care.....

Originally Posted by pepperpot

I acknowledge that some get 'left out'.....but to change the entire system for a (relatively) few who do not know better and/or are unwilling to change their ways or perhaps move to follow employment or retrain themselves in another field should bring down the whole system and lower the standards for everyone is not fair neither....correct what is wrong with this system.....it's not that they do not deserve care.....

No, no one deserves free care, but here access to reduced price check ups, both physicals and dentist could make all the difference. It is alot easier to do "preventative care" or catch something early on, than it is to all of a sudden find something, and alot less costly. I know that doctors go through alot a school, and years of training, and they deserve to get paid for that.

There are a couple of places near here, that are clinic type places, based on income. The main problem with these places, is that if you don't work and have income, you get a certain price, which is alot better than seeing a regular doctor. But if you do work, and are honest about it, it is like you are penalized for working. It's like they are saying, 'sit on you a$$ and do nothing, and we will help you, but try to help yourself and we will screw you'.

Also, from what I have noticed on the sliding fees, is that based on your income, you pay a certain percentage of the price for the visit. Unfortunately, when you look closely, you find out that they inflate their visit prices. They actually charge more for the same care you could get somewhere else. For instance, when you find out that your copay is 40% of the visit. The visit costs 200$ so you pay 80 out of pocket. Which seems like a good deal. Until you realize that other doctors in the area are only charging 85$ for their office visits, full price, and you get treated like a human being.

I just think that all people, regardless of income or not, are still human, and deserve some chance to receive care. Maybe some type of barter system. Pay so much of the visit, and work until the rest is paid off, odd jobs so to speak. That could serve 2 purposes, the person would get the care they needed, and would show that they are willing to work for it and not just expect a handout.