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So abortion shouldn't be preformed for an incest rape, so that the rapest will have to suffer what??? How stupid. If a young girl is raped by her daddy and becomes pregant, make her carry the child, so the father can be punished. HOW??? The young girl is devastated enough but lets make her carry this child for 9 months, only for it to be born with numerous defects due to incest, but no worries, the father will suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle
How stupid.
That whole site where that came from is stupid.
It is stringent but abortion clinics really do not report pregancy resulting from rapes or incest. These are criminal acts but they are not reported. How sad.
oh my I think my eyes have just crossed trying to read all these posts that I have missed lol
But I really think it is time to agree to disagree on this subject.
For me personally I would never ever (and yeah I have faced that decision in the past) have an abortion BUT I have several friends that have and NO it doesn't change my feelings of love for them. Why???? Because I do not feel it is my place to judge them.
I would never judge those who get an abortion but I would judge the abortion industry as evil. I do not know the hearts of those who get one but I know the act is wrong unless it is in dire need.
I think this is what Jesus was saying when He said judge not. I do not know the hearts of the women involved but the abortion industry is out for money and it is evil.
Abortions should be available for those women who have been raped, incest involved or their lives are at risk. It has been abused so much for birth control, etc. The industry is big money and encourages abortion for any reasons.
The DNA donor should be throw in jail for rape. The abortion industry aborts the baby and the so called father gets away with it to do it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeMary
Why is it the responsibility of the abortion clinic to report this? The woman going in to have the abortion could be lying or whatever. Its not their place, it is the girl that was raped or whatever to report it.Quote:
Originally Posted by janelle
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeMary
If you have 14 or 15 year old kid come in for an abortion it is obvious that a crime has taken place. As doctors they are required by law to report the crime of rape/abuse. That's why it is their responsibility. If it isn't then er doctors wouldn't have to report kids with excessive bruising. :monkeys
I was pregnant at 15 and my Dr didn't report anything.
You are not going to get rape victims to say much since they are traumatized, especially young girls. A counselor should be there to interview every girl and woman to see if they are upset and about what.
If a crime has happened then it is the duty of the clinic to report it. Hospitals wouldn't get away not reporting a crime. They would be closed down.
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Originally Posted by stresseater
in some states the legal age of consent is 15, so at that point you don't even have a statutory rape case.
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Originally Posted by Katt
I was under the impression that BC pills, taken regularly, stop ovulation, which will cause NO EGG to be present to ever get fertilized, but the MORNING AFTER PILL will either stop implantation or cause a spontaneous abortion. Am I wrong?
LOL if the BC pills actually stopped ovulation, then my youngest son would be born. that is why they are not 100% effective. and yes I took them every morning at 6:30 a.m. when I got up with my coffee before work. Sad thing is that I got on BC right after I had my oldest son. (which I was on the shot for 1 1/2 years with my oldest son.......explain that one-lol not 100% effective either) Needless to say there is no effective birth control but not to have sex at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpbaby
OH and get this, I got my tubes cut and burned, right after I had my youngest son, - lol and guess what happened to me 8 months later....... Pegnant! yuppers! Talk about one mad Mama! But 2 weeks later I mis-carried. Guess what they DR. told me........ "We never said it was 100%" They wanted to put me back on the pill after that! I just laughed! and told them no way.
Eventually my body took over and I had one more mis-carriage after that. The Dr.'s told me that my body is probably rejecting them.
and according to my mother, I would not be here if her BC actually worked also.
:backaway :coffee: :questionmark:
Thats the impression I had. Thats why some women dont even get their period after taking them for awhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpbaby
You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion. I, in turn, am entitled to mine. I have no comment on abortion, because what I believe is MY business. I take offence at your sweeping statement " Cmmon sense about Abortion that ALL should agree on.". WHY should I agree, because YOU think I should??? I also take offense at your vague suggestion that if I do not believe in God, something terrible is going to happen to me. I am not going to say if I believe in God or not, because that also is NONE of your business. I do need to tell you that even though I do not practice a Christian religion, I have good things happen to me every day. Christians do NOT have a lock on being "blessed". I suggest you watch the movie Dogma and really listen to the message - I am not saying it is right or wrong, but does raise some interesting ideas.
When I was 18 in High School back in 1994 we had Two 6th graders one was 12 and the other 13 that were pregnant. Everyone knew about it, the 12 year old even had twins......... so if you could imagine, these poor girls and guess what the guys that were 16 at the time that got them pregnant were not even charged for anything...... nor was anything done about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by stresseater
Nothing happened. It was very sad, I wasn't even thinking about that stuff when I was in 6th grade. I didn't even thing about anything like that until I was in 9th grade and that was because I hung out with older kids.
But it was so sad. The 13 year old parents forced her to sign away her rights, so that they could give the baby away, because they didn't want to take care of it. She wanted that baby Sad........... very sad.
I remember when we all found out about it. I was just so shocked for those girls and they still live here too. and that is how everyone knows them.
I think we are basically right, according to this site...and all of the other sites I found. This one is just basic, the rest have ALOT of jargon I didnt need to get the same exact information.Quote:
Originally Posted by freeby4me
http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/0663.html
Birth control pills fool the body into acting as if it's pregnant. Birth control pills, also called oral contraceptives (OCs), come in two forms: the combined OC, a combination of two synthetic hormones, estrogen and progestin; and, the minipill, which consists solely of progestin. Combined OCs are more commonly used, though both kinds are available through health care providers. The combination pill prevents ovulation by suppressing the natural hormones in the body that would stimulate the ovary to release an egg. By taking this estrogen throughout the month, you insure that no egg will be developed or released for that cycle. Progestin thickens the cervical mucus, hindering the movement of sperm. Progestin also prevents the uterus's lining from developing normally; so, if an egg were fertilized, implantation is unlikely.
That said, no, BC pills are not 100% effective, I have THREE because of that 98.7% effectivness rate. HOWEVER< think how many I would have had if I WASNT on the pill........
No, they do not all stop ovulation. (some of the new ones do, but my medical books during nursing school haven't included the last year or two's developments) They stop the egg from implanting. In the cases where egg was fertilized, the back up of the pill is to shred the lining (thus causing a "scheduled" period) Any implanted and fertilized egg is then aborted with the lining. You would not know if a fertilized egg was included, because it would appear as clots, depending on how heavy your periods usually are. I actually worked a miscarry last week. She was two months along. After it was over, I asked the doctor (because I could not tell when he actually had gotten all of the remaining tissue out, it all looked the same to me) if she had passed it before coming. He said no, that it was the larger amount of "clot" that he had to D/C out.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpbaby
I was under the impression that BC pills, taken regularly, stop ovulation, which will cause NO EGG to be present to ever get fertilized, but the MORNING AFTER PILL will either stop implantation or cause a spontaneous abortion. Am I wrong?
Most BC pills are three weeks of pills and one week of placebo. During this week, the body automatically sheers away the cervical lining and everything in it. That's why there is only three weeks of pills, the stoppage of the additional estrogen/progesterone combo will cause the sheer. Thus, anything that happens to implant, is aborted.
Some of the newer ones, that stop ovulation completely, I'm not really sure about to be perfectly honest. I stopped reading my maternity/newborn nursing books once I graduated. Not to mention with the way new products are coming out, stuff changes every year or so. But, that is how the older (ortho novum etc) work.
You can go to any college library and look at the textbooks of maternity nursing, and they will show the complete cycle of a body during birth control pill usuage. Many believe what they want and it usually leans to whatever would support their cause and thus lead to less inner turmoil. Many pro-lifers believe that life actually starts at fertilization, not implantation, therefore many BC pills would fall against their beliefs. I've seen many articles by pro-life sites that try to refute the fact that the failsafe of BC pills is actually a spontaneous abortion. I imagine that information helps to ease the mind of those pro-life people who take BC pills to prevent pregnancy. Just as the belief that life doesn't start until the fetus is able to sustain itself without host, probably helps to east the mind of those who are pro-choice.
Katt,
Ok, but then are we(collective) told that it take a few months for ovulation to start after you go off the pill? Seriously, I am just confused.
because it depends on the type of pills, and the type of hormone it has in it. Each does something different, like your post said. (the progesterone and estrogen) The hormones build in your body, and if the pill you are one has estrogen it will take those few months (theoretically) to let the levels decrease enough for ovulation to resume.
What confuses me is, larger amounts of estrogen are now found to be a contributing factor in breast cancer. I'm wondering how these new ones (that stop ovulation) are doing it without pumping you full of estrogen. I guess I should start reading now that I have access to the hospitals library.
ETA: When I was on the pill, I was always told it would take a few months for my periods to normalize after stopping, but to use other precautions. I always assumed that meant ovulation would occur and the chances of me getting pregnant where there after stopping the pill.
Maybe one of the older nurses on the board can answer, because all I know is what my texts had in them, and stuff is always changing.
I think thats just an average amount of time it takes women to get preggers after stopping the pill. Just like its average of 18 months after stopping the shot (some get preggers after 2 months, its just a general number)Quote:
Originally Posted by cpbaby
Thanks, I think, lol. I am just confusing myself more and I had a tubal when I had my c/s with Sophie, so Im not sure why I care...just curiosity, I guess.
See, I found this, too.
http://www.fwhc.org/qa/bc-whyperiod.htm
Actually that title only applies to my first post. And I thought that MOST would agree that personal responsibility is important and that Pregnancy prevention should be the ORDER of the day. If everyone practiced this there would be a lOT less need for abortions.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbob
MAny people see this as a control issue sadly. Even women who say I would NEVER have an abortion are uncomfortable telling anyone else that its wrong.
IF YOU believe its wrong for you then why isnt it WRONG? There is no such thing as gray areas. Either things are wrong or right. Correct or false.
And I wont argue that we are all in AMerica prone to being and feeling Blessed. I am only saying that if there is a creator, which HONEST research can PROVE there is...Who is it and what does that mean for our lives. And the movie Dogma if I am not very much mistaken applies mainly to CAtholicism and as you may see from my other posts I am CONSTANTLY at odds with them.
I do apologize that what you consider to be my OPINIONS trouble you, but you may wish to evaluate why that is. Your opinions dont trouble me a bit except for my concern for your soul.
IF there is a GOD and IF he has expectations and guidelines for our lives than whether you belive in him or not you will still be judged according to his standards.
I believe this absolutely and you do not. ONE of us is correct. This is not something you can gamble with PLEASE actually check it out for yourself.
www.leestrobel.com
This link goes to a site whos owner WAS an atheist and a newspaper man with a Degree in law. His wife got saved and he decided to actually look at Christianity like a reporter, and he came away a Born Again Christian.
HMM wel I find it interesting that someone who claims to be a Christian and I believe doesnt think that anyone should judge is so quick to judge me!Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeMary
I never told people that I loved Eminem's music or encouraged anyone to buy his cds. You have no idea where I heard about that song or anything. I TRY to be a good steward of what God has given me, THAT means that I do not give my money to any person or organization KNOWINGLY that supports ideals contrary to my beliefs.
You on the other hand in another thread were telling everyone how GREAT broke back mountain is!!! First off from what I have heard of this story its all about 2 men who CHEAT on their wives and then fall in lOVE with each other?
How can any CHRISTIAN pay to see such crap? And whats worse encourage others?
HOW dare you judge me! If you were trying to live righteously and you showed me from the bible that I was wrong I would have to submit.
But this type of HYPOCRISY, makes me feel sad for you.:slap
LOL its OK It is very confusing isnt it!Quote:
Originally Posted by cpbaby
Yes, there are such things as "grey areas'. Hardly anything in real life is black or white. While I thought abortion would be the wrong choice for me when I was pregnant, that doesn't make it wrong for everyone else and in every other circumstance. Everyones circumstances, expectations, needs, wants, life experience, religious beliefs, etc. are different. All those things go into making a decision about an abortion.Quote:
Originally Posted by DtroitPunk
What's right for me isn't always what's right for everyone else. And vice versa.
Very! lol
And I didn't see ANYWHERE that Yankeemary was judging you. Being amused by you and judging are 2 diff things.
But I AM bad to judge people based on what I know of them. And from what I know of you, from your posts here, I really don't like. People like you make me so sad, I feel sorry for you. Going to such expremes to try and force everyone to agree with you. Pitiful.
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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk
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Originally Posted by DtroitPunk
All right.. I'm confused... you tell your boys it's NOT ok to have sex before marriage yet you openly admit that you and your wife who were not married had unwed intimate relations, weren't you worried about AIDS and other STIs? :confused: :questionmark: I feel this is a complete double standard.. you said you were "careful" how do you know other people were not careful? If you're in a committed relationship, chances are both parties have been tested for STIs and felt safe enough to not use a condom. (at least I would hope both people were tested...) and... does your wife know that according to the bible and your word, she played the whore? You shouldn't go around knocking how other people live their lives and their choices when you haven't been living your life the way you are preaching. :stirQuote:
Originally Posted by DtroitPunk
"I do apologize that what you consider to be my OPINIONS trouble you, but you may wish to evaluate why that is. Your opinions dont trouble me a bit except for my concern for your soul.
IF there is a GOD and IF he has expectations and guidelines for our lives than whether you belive in him or not you will still be judged according to his standards.
I believe this absolutely and you do not. ONE of us is correct. This is not something you can gamble with PLEASE actually check it out for yourself."
OK, here we go. Your opinions DO NOT trouble me, what troubles me is your desire to ram them down my throat. As for your "concern for my soul",PLEASE do not be concerned. You are NOT the person I will stand in front of when my time comes, so your concern actually means little.
How do you actually know whos standards we will be judged by? Please do not state that the Bible says it is so, because the Bible was written by men NOT God.
And last but not least, perhaps you should open your mind enough to admit that perhaps we are BOTH wrong?
Somehow I am not surprized that you are male. Forgive me, but if you cannot actually do something(I.E. give birth) that you are not qualified to judge an action you will never need.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught on to that!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shann
I gave up catching onto his nonsense posts awhile ago, he is like a snake...trying to slither outta anything. Hmm...I remember a bible reference to a snake LOL:monkeysQuote:
Originally Posted by Angelseyes28
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Originally Posted by Angelseyes28
That's what I was thinking. I know if Kevin was on here, talking about how women who give it up before marriage are whores, then in another breath said I gave it up...but it's different because we weren't religious at the time, I'd be pissed. By those statements alone, he would be saying I'm in the whore catagory.
Then again, he said she's been reading and telling him his comments would upset people, so she knows what's being said and evidently doesn't mind being lumped in that catagory.
I dunno, I gave up trying to understand and follow all the talking in circles that has been done.
I do know though, it's posts like some that I have seen in the past few days (week) whatever, that really push me farther way from the church.
ITA Katt. I tried explaining that to him before that acting so hard headed about the Church is only going to push those away. He's only interested in being right and (what appears) he wants everyone to worship him. I thought as a Christian he was supposed to "preach" the word of God. Not Bash everyone's brains in with it...
I have TWO birth control pill babies.... BC didn't stop anything LOL Dr told me that the first time was a fluke... then when I went for a PG test with the last one, the nurse said "shit happens!" (she really did! LOL)
My first BC baby just turned 18 and my 2nd one will be 10 this month :D
I understand what you are saying, but I just cant agree. There are grey areas ONLY because we insist on them. And what you say about whats right for you isnt always right for everyone else is actually a tenet of most ALL pagan faiths.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahippiechic
In the Book of the Law by Aleister Crowley we find this Gem... DO what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law be that thou harm none.
This almost sounds reasonable except that it is IMPOSSIBLE to live only for yourself and not harm anyone unless you only mean PHYSICALLY.
Situational ethics NEVER work in the long run.
Boy every body here sure gets bent out of shape with me! WE are in total AGREEMENT! WHY do you guys insist that I am saying that ONLY girls are responsible. MANY families in AMerica dont have fathers in them. A boy learns alot nad takes his cues on how to treat a woman by how his father treats his mother.Quote:
Originally Posted by ahippiechic
WHen I said girls should be taught better. That is because EVERY girl (just ABout) has a female role model.
I was never saying that BOYS also shouldnt be taught how to respect themselves and the women in their lives. I was only pointing out the obvious that Girls do have the final say.
This thread is about abortion...ONLY girls can have abortions that is why I said what I said. And it really shouldnt anger anyone.
So we are all supossed to make the same decisions as you or we're wrong? What's seems right for you should be right for everyone? WTFE. Attitudes like yours are part of the reason that so many people don't even like to hear about religion.
Why not turn it around and say "what's right for Hippie is right for us all". :D I like that!
If you use the KJV that is exactly what your bible states. Please show me where your bible differs from the quotes in that document.Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeMary