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    Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary
    By MARSHALL THOMPSON, Associated Press Writer
    1 hour, 56 minutes ago


    JERUSALEM - Archaeologists and clergymen in the Holy Land derided claims in a new documentary produced by James Cameron that contradict major Christian tenets, but the Oscar-winning director said the evidence was based on sound statistics.

    "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," which the Discovery Channel will run on March 4, argues that 10 ancient ossuaries — small caskets used to store bones — discovered in a suburb of Jerusalem in 1980 may have contained the bones of Jesus and his family, according to a press release issued by the Discovery Channel.

    One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus may have had a son, according to the documentary. And the very fact that Jesus had an ossuary would contradict the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

    Cameron told NBC'S "Today" show that statisticians found "in the range of a couple of million to one in favor of it being them." Simcha Jacobovici, the Toronto filmmaker who directed the documentary, said the implications "are huge."

    "But they're not necessarily the implications people think they are. For example, some believers are going to say, well this challenges the resurrection. I don't know why, if Jesus rose from one tomb, he couldn't have risen from the other tomb," Jacobovici told "Today."

    Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in Cameron's documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

    In 1996, when the British Broadcasting Corp. aired a short documentary on the same subject, archaeologists challenged the claims. Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological standards but makes for profitable television. "They just want to get money for it," Kloner said.

    Cameron said his critics should withhold comment until they see his film. "I'm not a theologist. I'm not an archaeologist. I'm a documentary film maker," he said.

    The film's claims, however, have raised the ire of Christian leaders in the Holy Land. "The historical, religious and archaeological evidence show that the place where Christ was buried is the Church of the Resurrection," said Attallah Hana, a Greek Orthodox clergyman in Jerusalem. The documentary, he said, "contradicts the religious principles and the historic and spiritual principles that we hold tightly to."

    Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight. "I don't think that Christians are going to buy into this," Pfann said. "But skeptics, in general, would like to see something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear."

    "How possible is it?" Pfann said. "On a scale of one through 10 — 10 being completely possible — it's probably a one, maybe a one and a half."

    Pfann is even unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." Ancient Semitic script is notoriously difficult to decipher.

    Kloner also said the filmmakers' assertions are false. "It was an ordinary middle-class Jerusalem burial cave," Kloner said. "The names on the caskets are the most common names found among Jews at the time."

    Archaeologists also balk at the filmmaker's claim that the James Ossuary — the center of a famous antiquities fraud in Israel — might have originated from the same cave. In 2005, Israel charged five suspects with forgery in connection with the infamous bone box. "I don't think the James Ossuary came from the same cave," said Dan Bahat, an archaeologist at Bar-Ilan University. "If it were found there, the man who made the forgery would have taken something better. He would have taken Jesus."

    None of the experts interviewed by The Associated Press had seen the whole documentary.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070226/...DIrQ5w29ys0NUE

    ____

    On the Web: http://www.discovery.com/tomb
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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Documentary shows possible Jesus tomb
    By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer
    16 minutes ago


    NEW YORK - Filmmakers and researchers on Monday unveiled two ancient stone boxes they said may have once contained the remains of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, but several scholars derided the claims made in a new documentary as unfounded and contradictory to basic Christian beliefs.

    "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," produced by Oscar-winning director James Cameron and scheduled to air March 4 on the Discovery Channel, argues that 10 small caskets, called ossuaries, discovered in 1980 in a Jerusalem suburb may have held the bones of Jesus and his family.

    One of the caskets even bears the title, "Judah, son of Jesus," hinting that Jesus may have had a son, according to the film. The claim that Jesus even had an ossuary contradicts the Christian belief that he was resurrected and ascended to heaven.

    A panel of scholars that joined the filmmakers Monday at the New York Public Library addressed that criticism and others.

    James Tabor, a professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, said that while literal interpreters of the Bible say Jesus' physical body rose from the dead, "one might affirm resurrection in a more spiritual way in which the husk of the body is left behind."

    But Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said Christianity "has always understood the physical resurrection of Christ to be at the very center of the faith."

    Cameron, who won an Academy Award for directing "Titanic," said he was excited to be associated with the Jesus film, which was directed by Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici. "We don't have any physical record of Jesus' existence," he said. "So what this film ... shows is for the first time tangible, physical, archaeological and in some cases forensic evidence."

    He said that to a layman's eye "it seemed pretty darn compelling."

    Jacobovici said that a name on one of the ossuaries — "Mariamene" — offers evidence that the tomb is that of Jesus and his family. In early Christian texts, "Mariamene" is the name of Mary Magdalene, he said.

    Most Christians believe Jesus' body spent three days at the site of the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem's Old City. The burial site identified in Cameron's documentary is in a southern Jerusalem neighborhood nowhere near the church.

    In 1996, when the British Broadcasting Corp. aired a short documentary on the same subject, archaeologists challenged the claims. Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological standards but makes for profitable television. "They just want to get money for it," Kloner said.

    The film's claims have raised the ire of Christian leaders in the Holy Land.

    Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the Holy Land in Jerusalem who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's hypothesis holds little weight. "I don't think that Christians are going to buy into this," Pfann said. "But skeptics, in general, would like to see something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear."

    Jacobovici said the ossuaries did not initially seem extraordinary because the names on them were all common. But the filmmakers had statisticians calculate the likelihood that any other family in first-century Jerusalem would have had that cluster of names. "The numbers range from 1 in 100 to 1 in 1,000 that there is some other family," said Andrey Feuerverger, a professor of mathematics at the University of Toronto.

    Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government agency responsible for archaeology, said the Antiquities Authority agreed to send two ossuaries to New York, where they were displayed at Monday's news conference, "but it doesn't mean that we agree with" the filmmakers.

    The ossuaries do not contain any bones. The bones were reburied after their discovery, as is standard practice with archaeological finds in Israel.

    But Jacobovici said DNA evidence can nonetheless be collected from the boxes. He said DNA analysis has so far proved that Jesus and Mariamene, the putative Mary Magdalene, were not siblings and therefore could have been husband and wife.

    ___

    Associated Press Writer Marshall Thompson contributed to this report from Jerusalem and AP Religion Writer Rachel Zoll contributed from New York.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070227/...J3Be6M7BOs0NUE
    ___

    On the Net:

    Discovery Channel: http://www.discovery.com/tomb


    ... the filmmakers had statisticians calculate the likelihood that any other family in first-century Jerusalem would have had that cluster of names. "The numbers range from 1 in 100 to 1 in 1,000 that there is some other family," ...
    my husband's family name is not uncommon here - but the spelling is. There is another family in a nearby city that has four children - the same names as three of his siblings ( first and middle ) and the fourth is close ( Cheryl/Sharon ). There is no relation between the two families.
    What are the odds of that ?
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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Here's one that's better. Supposedly, they used "DNA tests" to verify who's in the graves. An editorial in the New York Post asked the question that came to my mind also:

    "For example, the filmmakers use DNA tests to build their case - but whose DNA is being compared with whose? Did they swab the Holy Ghost?"

    About the only way I could conceivably think they could have DNA to compare would be something off the Shroud of Turin. And I really doubt these idiots are going to have access to it.

    The editorial also pointed out something to think about. People are going to get mad about this obvious garbage. But nothing bad is going to happen to the "archaeologist" or to James Cameron.

    Now, what if they had done something similar about Mohammed? Remember all the flak about the political cartoon?

    If you want to read the editorial, here it is: http://www.nypost.com/seven/02272007..._goldblatt.htm

    Ravenamore

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    Wink Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Here's one that's better. Supposedly, they used "DNA tests" to verify who's in the graves.

    But Jacobovici said DNA evidence can nonetheless be collected from the boxes. He said DNA analysis has so far proved that Jesus and Mariamene, the putative Mary Magdalene, were not siblings and therefore could have been husband and wife.
    They used the DNA in the boxes - no one to compare it to. Since they are not brother and sister they clearly HAVE to be a married couple who CLEARLY are Jesus Christ and Mary Magdalene. The guys on CSI Miami could do a better job than this ....
    Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Man...you guys sure hate having your faiths challenged don't you? While I agree with the whole "whose DNA are they comparing this too" notion; everyone is soooo quick to say this is a bunch of crock. Where's that famous open minded Christian?
    Looking for Sympathy? It's in the Dictionary between Sh!t and Syphilis.

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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Tomb could be of Jesus, wife and son: directors
    Mon Feb 26, 12:04 PM ET


    WASHINGTON (AFP) - The burial site of Jesus has been found and suggests he had a wife and son, according to highly sensitive claims in a documentary by "Titanic" director James Cameron and Israel-born Simcha Jacobovici.

    The claims inject controversy into the issue of resurrection central to Christianity and, if accurate, could reignite questions about Jesus' earthy family life popularized in the book "The Da Vinci Code."

    Cameron and Jacobovici, an award-winning documentary director, said their research suggested Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a son, Judah. "DNA analysis conducted at one of the world's foremost molecular genetics laboratories, as well as studies by leading scholars, suggest a 2,000-year-old Jerusalem tomb could have once held the remains of Jesus of Nazareth and his family," a statement from Discovery, which will broadcast the documentary, said.

    The tomb was located in Talpiot, Jerusalem, March 28, 1980 by a construction crew developing an apartment complex.

    Scholar L.Y. Rahmani later published "A Catalogue of Jewish Ossuaries" that described 10 ossuaries, or limestone bone boxes, found in the tomb, the Discovery statement said.

    Five of the 10 discovered boxes in the Talpiot tomb were inscribed with names believed to be associated with key figures in the New Testament: Jesus, Mary, Matthew, Joseph and Mary Magdalene. A sixth inscription, written in Aramaic, translates to "Judah Son of Jesus."

    "Such tombs are very typical for that region," Aaron Brody, associate professor of Bible and archaeology at the Pacific School of Religion and director of California's Bade Museum, told Discovery News.

    In addition to the "Judah son of Jesus" inscription, which is written in Aramaic on one of the ossuaries, another limestone burial box is labeled in Aramaic with "Jesus Son of Joseph." Another bears the Hebrew inscription "Maria," a Latin version of "Miriam," or, in English, "Mary."

    Yet another ossuary inscription, written in Hebrew, reads "Matia," the original Hebrew word for "Matthew." Only one of the inscriptions is written in Greek. It reads, "Mariamene e Mara," which can be translated as, "Mary known as the master," the television network said.

    Jacobovici, director, producer and writer of "The Lost Tomb of Jesus," and his team obtained two sets of samples from the ossuaries for DNA and chemical analysis. The first set consisted of bits of matter taken from the "Jesus Son of Joseph" and "Mariamene e Mara" ossuaries. The second set consisted of patina, a chemical film encrustation on one of the limestone boxes.

    The human remains were analyzed by Carney Matheson, a scientist at the Paleo-DNA Laboratory at Lakehead University in Ontario, Canada. Mitochondrial DNA examination determined the individual in the Jesus ossuary and the person in the ossuary linked to Mary Magdalene were not related.

    Since tombs normally contain either blood relations or spouses, Jacobovici and his team suggest Jesus and Mary Magdalene could have been a couple. "Judah," whom they indicate may have been their son, could have been the "lad" described in the Gospel of John as sleeping in Jesus' lap at the Last Supper, they argue in their documentary.

    Israeli archaeologist and professor Amos Kloner, who documented the tomb as the Jewish burial cave of a well-off family more than 10 years ago, is adamant there is no evidence to support claims that it was the burial site of Jesus. "I'm a scholar. I do scholarly work which has nothing to do with documentary film-making. There's no way to take a religious story and to turn it into something scientific," he told AFP in a telephone interview.

    "I still insist that it is a regular burial chamber from the 1st century BC," Kloner said, adding that the names were a coincidence. "Who says that 'Maria' is Magdalena and 'Judah' is the son of Jesus? It cannot be proved. These are very popular and common names from the 1st century BC," said the academic at Israel's Bar Ilan University.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070226...B6fgtPaiSs0NUE
    Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Quote Originally Posted by YNKYH8R View Post
    Man...you guys sure hate having your faiths challenged don't you? While I agree with the whole "whose DNA are they comparing this too" notion; everyone is soooo quick to say this is a bunch of crock. Where's that famous open minded Christian?
    Having an open mind does not mean believing everything you hear.

    Their "evidence" is a collection of common names and the DNA showing that two of the five people buried there were not siblings. How far apart were the deaths spaced ? What dna relationships are found between the other remains ? They haven't "proven" anything ... just guesses and assumptions.

    I don't think it matters if Jesus was married and had children - he was sent to be a human being; having a family is part of the human condition, not a flaw.
    Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    This just affirms my beliefs like when they discovered the Dead Sea Schrolls.
    First the names are not common. Mary Magdelin was not known as such during her time. DNA shows that the remains are of a child related to the other 2 remains which are not related. So Jesus' body remained while he ascended to the heavens. of course. Remember thru God all things are possible. The bible says that after death and we are made whole. When his spirit left his body, it infused with the linen and gave us the Shroud of Turin. Jesus saw his mother and did not allow her to touch him as he had not yet gone to his father but she still saw him and reported back to the deciples that he looked the same and no different than any of them. This is not the first time a dead person has been reported to be like everyone else, even eating, carrying things etc., then the living person finds out that the other had been dead for quite sometime. Also there are many so called lesser books of the bible that the church deems unworthy to be included in the bible as we know it, so what information lies in them that can also substansiate or explain this is unknown.

    This will also, I believe, show that Jesus was married and that Mary was the chalis that some seek as is shown in DeVincis Last Supper. remember priests used to be able to marry and have children. the church stopped it because of the costs involved in supporting the families.

    I cannot wait for the airing March 4th. I am sure it will be very interesting.

    The key to this is FAITH. Believeing in something when everything else says it is not so.

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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolie Rouge View Post
    Having an open mind does not mean believing everything you hear.

    Their "evidence" is a collection of common names and the DNA showing that two of the five people buried there were not siblings. How far apart were the deaths spaced ? What dna relationships are found between the other remains ? They haven't "proven" anything ... just guesses and assumptions.

    I don't think it matters if Jesus was married and had children - he was sent to be a human being; having a family is part of the human condition, not a flaw.
    I agree with you on these two points (as I previously stated) although I'm not asking you to believe everything you hear; just keep an open mind. Not enough people think outside the Bible.
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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    I am looking forward to watching the documentary. As for thinking "outside" the Bible, why should we? The Bible is a historic document that has been proven time and again to be correct. So, if it is a historical document given to us by God, who are we to question its validity? I agree with the fact that since it was written by men and the fact that it has been translated by men, there could be some errors. But, I don't believe that those errors would be so major as to negate Christianity and its foundations.

    The difference between this documentary and The Di Vinci Code, DVC was a work of fiction and this is a documentary done by a reputable film maker based on what he believes to be facts. Now we have the choice to take these "facts" at face value or question whether they are true or not. But, as pointed out, when they took Jame's box out of the tomb, why would they not have taken that of Jesus?
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    Re: Scholars criticize new Jesus documentary by James Cameron

    I agree with you on these two points (as I previously stated) although I'm not asking you to believe everything you hear; just keep an open mind. Not enough people think outside the Bible.
    I would have the same sense of skeptism if they were claiming it was the tomb of King Arthur with the same "facts" as the basis ....
    Laissez les bon temps rouler! Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.** a 4 day work week & sex slaves ~ I say Tyt for PRESIDENT! Not to be taken internally, literally or seriously ....Suki ebaynni IS THAT BETTER ?

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