Thread: Is having 19 kids 'abusive'?

The Week – 11 hrs ago

The Bates household in Tennessee is already packed, and now baby number 19 is on the way. Is that unfair to the other 18 children?

Kelly and Gil Bates, who already have 18 kids, are about to catch up to the Duggars, stars of the reality TV show 19 Kids and Counting. The Bateses, evangelical Christians from Tennessee, oppose using birth control. With a little help from hormones (and, they say, prayer), they're now pregnant with No. 19, and hope some day to have a 20th child. "It feels more normal to me to be pregnant than not be pregnant," says Kelly Bates, 44. "I'm happy holding a baby." She might be ecstatic... but what about her kids?

These parents are a danger to their kids : Kelly and Gil Bates — who approve of medically aided procreation but oppose contraceptives — aren't just "Bible-thumping nut job hypocrites," says Maressa Brown at The Stir. These "dangerous" parents don't even have health insurance for all their kids. Plus, the children have no privacy or "lives of their own," so crowding them with another sibling "borders on abusive."

They're just old-fashioned : The Bates family lives the way people used to, says Whitney Jefferson at Jezebel. They don't have much use for the internet or TV. They live a "modest and simple life," far away from the reality TV cameras that keep tabs on the Duggars. It won't be long before their 21-year-old eldest daughter has her first suitors, and winning her hand will take a traditional courtship, "as the whole family looks on." That's not crazy, it's traditional.

We could all learn from the Bates' example... sort of: The family's teamwork, at least, is "a Harvard Business School-worthy case study of home economics," says Juju Chang at ABC News. They go through seven gallons of milk per week, and two pounds of sandwich meat at every lunch. Many parents buckle under far lesser challenges, but the Bates family bands together and makes ends meet with "multiple income streams, cost-cutting, division of labor, strategic leverage, and tax savvy."

http://news.yahoo.com/having-19-kids...GVzdAM-;_ylv=3

if you read the comments to this article - they are over whelmingly negative and some are very nasty regarding this family's faith


"Tennessee family of 20 relies on thrift and teamwork to make ends meet"

Tennessee Family of 20 Relies on Thrift and Teamwork to Make Ends Meet
By JUJU CHANG and CLAIRE PEDERSEN Aug. 24, 2011

The first question one might ask Gil and Kelly Bates, the Tennessee couple with 18 children, is "How do you do it?"

After listening to their sincere answers about faith and love, the follow-up question might be: "But how do you actually do it?" How do you manage the practical, everyday side of life? Most of all, how do you pay for it?

The answer is a Harvard Business School-worthy case study of home economics that includes multiple income streams, cost-cutting, division of labor, strategic leverage and tax savvy.

The foundation of the Bateses' finances is Gil's income as a tree surgeon. It provides just enough to get by.

How do you make a small income work for a family of 20? Thrift, for starters. "I'm a real penny pincher. I'm probably worse than a penny pincher," Gil said. They buy only what they need, he said, and they buy it on sale.

Clothes, a potential bank-breaker, are either hand-me-downs -- from older siblings and from other families -- or bought at thrift stores. "Going to the mall, I mean, with 10 girls, can be pretty pricey," said Alyssa, 16. "We can go to Goodwill and get twice the amount of stuff for all of us and … it might not last as long, but it's definitely a lot cheaper. Shoes are definitely thrift-store items," Kelly said, chuckling.

Then there's manual labor. All the kids do chores around the house. Alyssa is the family chef -- she said she started cooking for the whole family when she was 12. Michaela, the oldest daughter, is the seamstress, making most of the dresses the girls wear plus her siblings' modest bathing suits, which are custom-tailored to the family's evangelical Christian values. She's also the laundress, doing six or seven loads per day.

Lawson, 19, plays a crucial and many-faceted role. He started a lawn-mowing business when he was 13 that makes enough money to provide a rolling no-interest line of credit to his parents and siblings. Gil and Kelly reject debt of all kinds: no mortgage, car loan or credit cards. Lawson is their only creditor. "They're good for it," Lawson said. "I don't need the money right now anyway."

"We call him the bank financier, because he is always lending to siblings, or lending to us, or he's the one that always has money in the account when the rest of us don't," said Kelly.

Lawson loaned Zach $1,000 for a car and Erin $2,000 for college. "Dad borrowed $4,000 or $5,000 for … well, mostly just to pay bills," Lawson said with a laugh.

Lawson is the self-appointed grocery shopper. "Nobody else likes to do it, and I don't mind, so it works out pretty good," he said. Usually it's a one-cart affair, but "sometimes I end up getting another one."

It figures: The Bateses go through 7 gallons of milk and nine loaves of bread per week. If a sibling's birthday party is coming up -- as they do every month but two -- he has to buy four cartons of ice cream and two boxes of cake mix. If Gil hasn't been paid yet that week, Lawson puts the groceries -- a recent haul totaled $375.53 -- on his own debit card.

Typical Shopping List of the Bates Family

Here are some other average figures from the operations of the Bates family:

5 or 6 supersize bags of cereal per week

7 gallons of milk per week

2 pounds of sandwich meat per lunch

4 to 6 loads of dishes per day (they use paper plates)

one breakfast requires three to four packages of turkey bacon, two to three dozen eggs and 40 biscuits

on pizza night, a favorite family treat, they order 8 to10 large pizzas

When making chili, they use 8 to 10 pounds of ground beef

The Bateses do not use food stamps. "I don't take anything from the government. We probably qualify for a lot of things but … I don't want to be a burden on everybody else," Gil said.

They do take full advantage of the U.S. tax code, claiming all 18 deductions. "That's a wonderful thing," Gil said with a laugh. "America's a great place to live."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/tennessee-f...4364190&page=2


They are not on welfare, food stamps or any goverment assistance; they are not in debt, the children are cared for and healthy. Where is the "abuse" ??

comments

I see about as much news value to this story as I do to the Kardashian wedding. What is so "amazing" and "inspiring" about a family where one woman has to endure multiple pregnancies? Anyone can get pregnant. Big deal. But most women are smart enough to say "enough is enough" after three or four times, and then have time to spend with their kids, pursue a career, and enjoy life outside the home. (Yes. There is a big world out there. Even if you are homebody, leaving home every now and then makes coming back that much sweeter.) And if these kids didn't have to stay home and help out 24/7, perhaps the young man who does the grocery shopping could be in college right now and learn to say "...so it works out well," rather than "...works out good."

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I'm extremely disturbed and upset about these two families having all of these children. The parents are so much in denial with their 1950's mentality. The ones who are suffering the most are the children by not preparing them for a 2011 world. I so wish I could meet them in person and have a serious conversation about this issue. Reproduction needs to stop.

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I loved watching this recent show on the bates family. I was inspired by their story. I wish I could have had more children. My wife and I have two children, and we have the same Christian values. My wife also stays home and home schools my kids. We are a happy family and trust God from paycheck to paycheck, without insurance. God always blesses and takes care of us. Thank you Bates family. God bless you.

My mom is one of 13; I am the youngest of 9; DH is the youngest of 7; here in the Deep South a generation ago ... it was not uncommon. I had lots of friends who were also part of large families. Not anymore .... today it is more expensive then it used to be to raise kids ...
I have 3... due to my health and medical issues there won't be anymore.