Thread: Liberal Lies About National Health Care: Second in a Series (Collect All 10!)

I still can't believe that people are falling for that claim.

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/fal...anasia-claims/

"The accepted definition of end-of-life planning means thinking ahead about the care you would like to receive at the end of your life – which may include the choice to reject extraordinary measures of life support, or the choice to embrace them. For instance, the National Library of Medicine describes end-of-life services as "services [that] are available to help patients and their families deal with issues surrounding death." This can include making decisions about treatment, designating a health care proxy, choosing a hospice program and putting together a living will, all of which the bill mentions explicitly as being part of an advance care planning consultation. In a 2003 study, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found that "[p]atients who talked with their families or physicians about their preferences for end-of-life care had less fear and anxiety, felt they had more ability to influence and direct their medical care, believed that their physicians had a better understanding of their wishes, and indicated a greater understanding and comfort level than they had before the discussion."

Furthermore, the bill would not make these sessions mandatory. It modifies section 1861(s)(2) of the Social Security Act, defining what services Medicare will pay for – if these definitions made treatments mandatory, seniors would all be required to get artificial legs and midwife services, too. In other words, this section of H.R. 3200 would require Medicare to pay doctors when they counsel their patients about such things as living wills, but no more frequently than once every five years, unless there’s a significant change in health status. "Both myself and our outside counsel have reviewed section 1233 of the House bill, and neither one of us can reach the conclusion that it is a mandatory consultation for Medicare and Medicaid beneficiaries," Jon Keyserling, vice president of public policy at the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization, told us. "The opportunity for the consultation is not only voluntary but patient-initiated."

I don't need to take Ann Coulter's word for it, I have heard Obama talk. He says one thing then does the opposite since he got in there and we are suppose to believe what he says about our health care?

Actually, if you listen to Obama talk about health care you can't understand what he is talking about and he contradicts himself left and right on many things. I hope you are not falling for-----everyone will be covered by the doctors we now have who are overworked as it is. No way on God's green earth can the same amount of doctors cover each and everyone's health care in America and health care won't be rationed---old people step to the back of the line. A child can tell you that. They will HAVE to ration health care or see each patient for two minutes each.

And just who is writing this bill? Are they doctors, lawyers, accountants, candlestick makers? Who knows, they aren't telling us. Oh, that makes us feel so comfortable our health and future lives are in the hands of------I don't know, do you? They just want to rush the most important bill to come down the pike in ages through before they need to answer too many questions. We have always been told not to trust a salesman who wants us to sign on the dotted line too fast before anybody has time to read the fine print but this time with our lives on the line it's fine and dandy. I don't think so.

This bill can be read but it is written in such a way it can mean anything. Why not pare it down to 500 pages, maybe 250, maybe more. 1,015 pages last I heard. We may be signing our lives away for all anybody knows, the people who are voting on it aren't even reading it. And the American people are suppose to just shut up and sit down. Oh please. They must think we are a bunch of sheep and stupid on top of it. How else would they be so surprised when people turn out to Town Halls and want to talk to their reps about it. Surprise, surprise. Idiots.

They may not have death panels but if you read Jolie's article on what they are dong to the vets they might as well have. Read a booklet about "if you think your life is worth living and if you are being a burden on your family." I would call them brain washing panels. Then they leave the number of the Hemlock Society. Good Lord help us.

It all seems too evil to me. Go ahead and say we are all stupid and paranoid but the Obama administration has caused most of this since they took power. Slamming thing through and forcing things down our throats. If people are going to Tea Parties they need to look at what they are doing to have caused it. Action 1 leads to reaction 2. All they want to do is blame the last administration for everything but I never seen things so stirred up until now.

Originally Posted by Bahet

Still waiting for someone to show me these. Galene didn't list the source she copied her post from but it wasn't the bill. I searched it out and came up with family blogs, a few op/ed columns and World Net Daily. WND was the closest to a "news" source I could find. Even then, that was only one of the 3 pieces I asked about.

Seriously, I'm not picking on anyone or insinuating that some are foolish or believe email forwards because it's easier than learning on their own. If those things are in there please show me. If they are I'll gladly concede that it's the left who is spreading the lies and falsehoods by saying they aren't while the right is trying to protect American citizens.

I got it straight from the bill, I even listed the page they were on. Check it out some time.

Originally Posted by galeane29

To search for the bill type in H.R. 3200 http://www.gpoaccess.gov/bills/index.html

Direct link to doc. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...3200ih.txt.pdf

Originally Posted by galeane29

PG 425 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. - End of life services
and support
PG 50 Section 152 Prohibiting Discrimination in health care

PG 16 section 102 Entitled Protecting the Choice to Keep Current Coverage, the bill clearly states, "the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day" of the year the bill becomes law. As verified by the House Ways and Means Committee last week, this provision means that this health care bill itself will kill the market for private individual coverage by not allowing any new policies to be written after the public option becomes law.

Bumped for Bahet to RE-read my posts

This is for those that don't want to believe that the seniors have paid for medicare and their employers matched the contribution. The contribution for social security is done on the same form. However most employers have to make the payments within 3 days of payroll if you scroll down you will see a voucher.

This is a copy of the form your employer has to fill our quarterly.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f941.pdf

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV-
4 ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov-
6 erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef-
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.




This is merely defining what is meant by the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’. Obviously you cannot be grandfathered in to something if you had it after the fact.

I had a client once who was concerned about his benefits. He had retired a few years earlier and his company changed the amount of time required before employees would be vested into the pension fund to 1 year longer than he had worked for them. I read through the information he was given and it stated that those who had retired would be grandfathered in. He didn't have to work any longer to get his pension. But anyone retiring after the change would have to meet the new minimum number of years.

That's all that section really states in the health care bill. It means that anyone with individual health insurance in place already will be grandfathered in. You can still get individual health insurance afterwards. No where does it state that you can't. You can pretty much tell when someone is trying to milead someone else when it comes to things like this. A big clue is when they don't give the title of the section "GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED" and also when they actually chop out part of the sentence.

Those programs were all ponzi schemes. IF you live long enough to get your money back AND there would be enough younger people to help pay the bill for the older generation, then it would work out. Who can see into the future? Who knew we would all be living longer and longer and who knew so many of the younger generation would be contraceped and aborted so not that many are left to pay for the growing older generation?

Fact still remains the older generation paid into it and now want the benefit of those payments. I know we would have put our money into investments that made us money but the government, nanny state thinks they know what is best for us and how to handle our money for us. So now it's gone. Then on top of it they want to expand their roll in saying what we will do with our money. Heaven help us.

Then so many on the hill are aghast when the public says enough---we can fire our investment counselor but not our government. Not until the next election but just watch the swindlers do anything to stay in power. Promise anything and twist arms.