Thread: Obama’s Plan to Bankrupt the Coal Industry

11/2/2008
Obama’s Plan to Bankrupt the Coal Industry


Gateway Pundit posts the audio and a transcript from a January 2008 San Francisco Chronicle/Gate interview in which Barack Obama said twice that he will bankrupt coal plants with heavy fees for emitting greenhouse gases:

“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.

That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel and other alternative energy approaches.

The only thing I’ve said with respect to coal, I haven’t been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as a ideological matter as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it.

So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can.

It’s just that it will bankrupt them.”[/quote]


I hope the bitter, clingy folks in coal states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Indiana, West Virginia, and Virginia are listening. As for voters in other states, we already know Obama opposes most oil and gas drilling, and Gateway Pundit reminds us (via the Wall Street Journal) that Obama likely has the same opposition to nuclear energy.

It’s clear Obama votes “No” on vital energy choices for America. It’s time to vote “No” on Obama.

UPDATE 1 — from the same interview via Hot Air: Obama knows “electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket” from his plans.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/0...ces-skyrocket/

The problem is not technical, uh, and the problem is not mastery of the legislative intricacies of Washington. The problem is, uh, can you get the American people to say, “This is really important,” and force their representatives to do the right thing? That requires mobilizing a citizenry. That requires them understanding what is at stake. Uh, and climate change is a great example.

You know, when I was asked earlier about the issue of coal, uh, you know — Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad. Because I’m capping greenhouse gases, coal power plants, you know, natural gas, you name it — whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that money on to consumers.

They — you — you can already see what the arguments will be during the general election. People will say, “Ah, Obama and Al Gore, these folks, they’re going to destroy the economy, this is going to cost us eight trillion dollars,” or whatever their number is. Um, if you can’t persuade the American people that yes, there is going to be some increase in electricity rates on the front end, but that over the long term, because of combinations of more efficient energy usage, changing lightbulbs and more efficient appliance, but also technology improving how we can produce clean energy, the economy would benefit.

If we can’t make that argument persuasively enough, you — you, uh, can be Lyndon Johnson, you can be the master of Washington. You’re not going to get that done.

Energy prices skyrocketing will leave the economy in tatters, as we saw earlier this year. While no one doubts the need to start transitioning to better sources of energy, the manner in which that gets done means the difference of whether it gets done at all. A stagnant or receding economy does not produce scientific breakthroughs, especially when government both increases taxes and imposes steep cost burdens on energy. That cuts into both manufacturing and R&D, because as profits fall, fewer dollars go into research — which means that all of these wonderful developments would get delayed, or go unrealized altogether.

We need to plan for the transition better than what Obama proposes. We need to use our own reserves of oil, natural gas, coal, and shale to cushion the economy while we develop the alternatives and build the infrastructure to deliver it. That’s what John McCain proposed in his Lexington Project.
Price shocks on energy is the last thing this economy needs. It would be worse than the taxes Obama promises to impose on investment, and would have the same depressive effect. It’s an utter disaster.



http://patterico.com/2008/11/02/obam...coal-industry/

UPDATE 2 — Jake Tapper provides a lengthier transcript where Obama says eliminating coal is an illusion. http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...licans-to.html

Does it change Obama’s meaning?

I don’t think so but as Tapper says, you be the judge.


Republicans to Try Burning Obama on Coal
November 02, 2008 3:23 PM

“I’m calling on behalf of John McCain and the RNC to tell you that coal jobs, which are so important to our community are in jeopardy,” says the robocall being made to voters in Pennsylvania and Ohio, among other coal-producing states.

Continues the robocall: “Listen to Barack Obama's plans to bankrupt the coal industry.”

The call then plays this quote from Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.: "So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can; it's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.”

The quote comes from a January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle; the Obama campaign says the quote is being “wildly” taken out of context, that in the full interview Obama praises coal and says that the idea of eliminating coal is “an illusion.”

“The line they pulled out is in the context of cap and trade program,” says an Obama spokesperson. “The point Obama is making is that we need to transition from coal burning power plants built with old technology to plants built with advanced technologies -- and that is exactly the action that will be incentivized under a cap and trade program.”

Is it being taken unfairly out of context? You be the judge. Here’s the entirety of Obama’s remarks:

“I voted against the Clear Skies Bill. In fact, I was the deciding vote -- despite the fact that I’m a coal state and that half my state thought that I had thoroughly betrayed them. Because I think clean air is critical and global warming is critical.

“But this notion of no coal, I think, is an illusion. Because the fact of the matter is, is that right now we are getting a lot of our energy from coal. And China is building a coal-powered plant once a week. So what we have to do then is figure out how can we use coal without emitting greenhouse gases and carbon. And how can we sequester that carbon and capture it. If we can’t, then we’re gonna still be working on alternatives.

“But ... let me sort of describe my overall policy. What I’ve said is that we would put a cap and trade policy in place that is as aggressive if not more aggressive than anyone out there. I was the first call for 100 percent auction on the cap and trade system. Which means that every unit of carbon or greenhouse gases that was emitted would be charged to the polluter. That will create a market in which whatever technologies are out there that are being presented, whatever power plants are being built, they would have to meet the rigors of that market and the ratcheted-down caps that are imposed every year.

“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can. It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted. That will also generate billions of dollars that we can invest in solar, wind, biodiesel, and other alternative energy approaches. The only thing that I’ve said with respect to coal -- I haven’t been some coal booster. What I have said is that for us to take coal off the table as an ideological matter, as opposed to saying if technology allows us to use coal in a clean way, we should pursue it, that I think is the right approach. The same with respect to nuclear. Right now, we don’t know how to store nuclear waste wisely and we don’t know how to deal with some of the safety issues that remain. And so it’s wildly expensive to pursue nuclear energy. But I tell you what, if we could figure out how to store it safely, then I think most of us would say that might be a pretty good deal.

“The point is, if we set rigorous standards for the allowable emissions, then we can allow the market to determine and technology and entrepreneurs to pursue, what the best approach is to take, as opposed to us saying at the outset, here are the winners that we’re picking and maybe we pick wrong and maybe we pick right.”

UPDATE 3 — The WSJ reports Sarah Palin attacked Obama on his coal comments today in Ohio. http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/1...al-production/ In an update, the WSJ also provided this response from the Obama campaign:

Palin Attacks Obama on Coal Production
Nick Timiraos reports from Marietta, Ohio, on the presidential race.

Republican vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin unleashed a new volley against Barack Obama on a four-city tour of Ohio on Sunday by touting newly released audio comments made by the Democratic presidential candidate promising to restrict the construction of new coal-fired power plants in the U.S.

The issue is particularly sensitive in coal-rich Ohio, West Virginia, and Colorado. Obama made the comments to the San Francisco Chronicle in January, which were posted on YouTube over the weekend.

Obama said that under his proposal to cap greenhouse gases, energy suppliers would get incentives to develop technologies to reduce pollution and to use cleaner sources of power. “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can,” Obama said. “It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.”

Palin told supporters to listen to the audiotape. “You’re going to hear Sen. Obama talk about bankrupting the coal industry,” she said. The Alaska governor also pointed to comments that Democratic vice-presidential candidate Joe Biden made to an environmental activist, promising no more coal-fired power plants in America. Biden was videotaped, likely without his knowledge.

“In an Obama-Biden administration, there would be no use for coal at all, from Wyoming to Colorado, to West Virginia and Ohio,” Palin said.

The Obama campaign scrambled after Biden made his comments in September, clarifying that Obama remained committed to exploring the as-yet-undeveloped clean-coal technology in order to produce cleaner-burning coal-fired power plants.


UPDATE:

“The Obama campaign says that Palin took Obama’s position out of context because in the interview Obama said that “this notion of no coal, I think is an illusion.” Obama and McCain have both pushed for technology to develop cleaner burning coal. “What we have to do then is figure out how can we use coal without emitting greenhouse gases and carbon,” Obama told the Chronicle in the interview.”

Michelle Obama says Barack thinks he can do anything, so perfectly clean coal should be a snap. Right after he invents that perpetual motion machine …

I think He will bankruptcy more than coal mines!

if he wants to eliminate greenhouse gases -- why isn't one of his priorities for Pennsylvania ... to be Find a Way to put OUT the fire that has been burning for 50 years in Centralia, PA??

How's bankrupting the coal power plants and having electricity SKYROCKET going to help the middle class and the poor?

All his plans will hit the poor and middle class extra hard. Do you think that elitist Barack Hussein Obama cares about them? They are just pawns in his game. I really think he would like to cause a total economic collapse of our country. I wonder what country is sending in all those questionable campaign contributions. Does he want us living under communist rule or islamic rule?
Maybe I've just been listening to my grandma a little to much but she used to do investigative research for a living so I do trust her instincts and logic.

I wonder if anyone from CA could share with us what it was like when Enron was selling electricity there? They had SKYROCKETING electric prices then.

I remember some pretty unhappy people! Remember the pie in (I think it was Ken Leigh's) face?

BHO says they WILL NECESSARILY skyrocket.

Definition, necessarily

Main Entry: nec·es·sar·i·ly
Pronunciation: \ˌne-sə-ˈser-ə-lē\
Function: adverb
Date: 15th century
1 : of necessity : unavoidably
2 : as a logical result or consequence

BHO says WE can't avoid it. And a consequence is a RESULT. Something/someone causes it.

Originally Posted by atprm

if he wants to eliminate greenhouse gases -- why isn't one of his priorities for Pennsylvania ... to be Find a Way to put OUT the fire that has been burning for 50 years in Centralia, PA??

I live near Centralia & you should see the dead, burning town but take a look at this.... It's going to be our next Centralia & I am even closer to this one....

Experts try to avoid 'another Centralia'

An underground trash fire just outside Pottsville has local, county and state officials worried "another Centralia" could ignite.

"The coal is only about 30 feet down," county coal lands investigator John Mills said Thursday of the fire, burning for at least two weeks. The fire - on a Norwegian Township mountainside about 300 yards behind WPPA's radio towers - has not yet ignited underground coal veins. If it does, Mills said the results would be devastating.

"It would be a continual burn, on the order of Centralia," said Mills.

In Centralia, a small Columbia County town north of Ashland along state Route 61, a garbage fire in 1962 set off a chain of underground mine fires. The government claimed ownership of all remaining homes in 1991; the population is now less than two dozen.

The local fire is described as a "smoldering rubbish fire" by Office of Surface Mining officials. OSM project manager John Pace said crews will begin digging up the mountain next week in hopes of extinguishing the blaze.

"We're concerned it could get to some coal," Pace said in a telephone interview Thursday. "There's a lot of coal around there. We're going to recommend exploratory work."

On Thursday afternoon, smoke rose from the smoldering ground, though nothing on the surface was ablaze. A stench of burning garbage hung in the air.

The area, in and around an old stripping pit, is a dumping ground for refuse. Empty beer cases, used shingles and other trash is strewn around the site.

It is unclear, Mills said, how it started. Norwegian Township officials said Thursday that local fire crews responded to a trash fire in the area two weeks ago.

Township supervisors Vice Chairman Leo Grace agreed Thursday that the fire, if left unattended, could be devastating.

"We might not want to let it go until next week," Grace said. "We can't let this be another Centralia. And it could be."

Mills said he was made aware of the fire Monday, but added he's been told it has not grown worse over the past two weeks. He said, however, the flames occasionally break through the earth.

"Yesterday (Wednesday), there were some flames shooting up out of the ground," Mills said.

Mills said an OSM team is expected to arrive next week with bulldozers and backhoes. After digging up the stripping pit - which will also allow officials to see just how widespread the fire is - local fire companies will douse the area, he added.

In the meantime, Mills said he checks on the fire twice every day. Grace said he's instructed township personnel to keep an eye on it as well.

Originally Posted by anothersta

How's bankrupting the coal power plants and having electricity SKYROCKET going to help the middle class and the poor?

Because the messiah said it will.

This is going to devastate my part of Kentucky. The coal mines are about the only job where a person can make a decent living there. Of course, the Obama camp blames racism as the reason he has very little support in the area.

Oh and before anyone says I am a McCain supporter, think again. I don't support him either.

Let's all give a big "HELL YEAH" for a big Black Lab named Spud

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by wobblypops

I live near Centralia & you should see the dead, burning town but take a look at this.... It's going to be our next Centralia & I am even closer to this one....

Experts try to avoid 'another Centralia'

An underground trash fire just outside Pottsville has local, county and state officials worried "another Centralia" could ignite.

"The coal is only about 30 feet down," county coal lands investigator John Mills said Thursday of the fire, burning for at least two weeks. The fire - on a Norwegian Township mountainside about 300 yards behind WPPA's radio towers - has not yet ignited underground coal veins. If it does, Mills said the results would be devastating.

"It would be a continual burn, on the order of Centralia," said Mills.

In Centralia, a small Columbia County town north of Ashland along state Route 61, a garbage fire in 1962 set off a chain of underground mine fires. The government claimed ownership of all remaining homes in 1991; the population is now less than two dozen.

The local fire is described as a "smoldering rubbish fire" by Office of Surface Mining officials. OSM project manager John Pace said crews will begin digging up the mountain next week in hopes of extinguishing the blaze.

"We're concerned it could get to some coal," Pace said in a telephone interview Thursday. "There's a lot of coal around there. We're going to recommend exploratory work."

On Thursday afternoon, smoke rose from the smoldering ground, though nothing on the surface was ablaze. A stench of burning garbage hung in the air.

The area, in and around an old stripping pit, is a dumping ground for refuse. Empty beer cases, used shingles and other trash is strewn around the site.

It is unclear, Mills said, how it started. Norwegian Township officials said Thursday that local fire crews responded to a trash fire in the area two weeks ago.

Township supervisors Vice Chairman Leo Grace agreed Thursday that the fire, if left unattended, could be devastating.

"We might not want to let it go until next week," Grace said. "We can't let this be another Centralia. And it could be."

Mills said he was made aware of the fire Monday, but added he's been told it has not grown worse over the past two weeks. He said, however, the flames occasionally break through the earth.

"Yesterday (Wednesday), there were some flames shooting up out of the ground," Mills said.

Mills said an OSM team is expected to arrive next week with bulldozers and backhoes. After digging up the stripping pit - which will also allow officials to see just how widespread the fire is - local fire companies will douse the area, he added.

In the meantime, Mills said he checks on the fire twice every day. Grace said he's instructed township personnel to keep an eye on it as well.

It's fascinating AND devastating -- Centralia -- and what the government's solution to the "problem" is, is HORRIBLE... for those that do not know -- the g'ment bought out most of the homes, sans those that REFUSE to leave their property... so for those folks, the g'ment removed the zip code, removed all g'ment facilities (post office, fire/police dept, etc) and have attempted to all but remove it (Centralia) from maps and books.


As a homeschooling Mom, I had my dd write a 15 page term paper for History on Centralia. We had it graded locally, and the teacher who graded it had NO idea that there was such a thing as Centralia, nor could she understand how a fire could be burning for 46 years!


It's very sad to hear there is yet another Centralia in the making, wobblypops...it's as if they didn't learn the first time around.