Thread: Ten Worst US Presidents

Originally Posted by tngirl

The point is, they were illegally forced by force to rejoin the Union. The Union, led by Lincoln, attacked the Confederate States without due cause.

So you are flip flopping? Your earlier post stated that the Confederate states weren't allowed to succeed? (Originally Posted by tngirl
So, if it was not against the law then why were the Confederate States not allowed to succede?) and janelle's post "If they did secede we wouldn't be a great nation today. Thank God Lincoln was in charge not to let it happen." Just offering a rebuttal to prove those posts as inaccurate. No, I'm not getting into the segregation arguement here since this thread is about Presidents and is turning into a debate on Lincoln, the Civil War, and sucession of the Confederate States. Wouldn't want to be accused of going off topic.

I haven't stated an opinion of Lincoln one way or the other. As a matter of fact the links I posted both talked about Lincoln and his role in the Civil War. Neither article is very kind to Lincoln. Also, I believe I read that Lincoln at one time was himself a slave owner. Will have to do a search and see what I can come up with to comfirm or refute that as fact or fiction.

Originally Posted by janelle

I was taught Lincoln freed the slaves when I was in school. Are they now rewriting history? People just love a good constiracy and parents are shocked to read the books their kids are learning from today.

Of course, history will tell the side of the winners but would you still want slavery? Would you want a divided country with the Southern states having a different government?

No, history wasn't rewritten. It is just a matter of the truth actually being told. It has always been there, has nothing to do with conspiracy. Just do some research on the Civil War. And considering how the Southern States were treated before and after the war, maybe 2 seperate nations would have been better, I don't know considering that it did not happen. As for the slavery issue, that had been taken care of with the Missouri Compromise and the existing slavery was already coming to an end.

FYI, Lincoln did NOT free the slaves. It was not illegal to own slaves and the only way to abolish slavery would have been with an amenment to our Constitution. A President cannot just come out and say whether something can or cannot be done, he has to follow the laws that are written by our representatives.

And to answer the question of whether I would want slavery to still be in existance, no, I am not a believer in slavery. I am just saying that Lincoln had no legal stance to force the Confederate States to remain a part of the Union. They actually had the legal right to leave the Union. They were being unfairly taxed and tariffs placed on their goods. Do you remember the reason that we declared our independence from Great Britian? This is basically the same reason the Confederate States wanted to leave the Union.

Originally Posted by Crick

So you are flip flopping? Your earlier post stated that the Confederate states weren't allowed to succeed? (Originally Posted by tngirl
So, if it was not against the law then why were the Confederate States not allowed to succede?) and janelle's post "If they did secede we wouldn't be a great nation today. Thank God Lincoln was in charge not to let it happen." Just offering a rebuttal to prove those posts as inaccurate. No, I'm not getting into the segregation arguement here since this thread is about Presidents and is turning into a debate on Lincoln, the Civil War, and sucession of the Confederate States. Wouldn't want to be accused of going off topic.

I haven't stated an opinion of Lincoln one way or the other. As a matter of fact the links I posted both talked about Lincoln and his role in the Civil War. Neither article is very kind to Lincoln. Also, I believe I read that Lincoln at one time was himself a slave owner. Will have to do a search and see what I can come up with to comfirm or refute that as fact or fiction.

No flip flopping here Crick, maybe the wrong use of words. The point is that they were FORCED to remain a part of the Union. As you said, at the time of the creation of the Confederate States it was totally lawful for the states to choose to secede.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Each state had the right to NOT be governed by the US Government.

Originally Posted by tngirl

The point is, they were illegally forced by force to rejoin the Union. The Union, led by Lincoln, attacked the Confederate States without due cause.

So what. It was a dumb move by the south. I think we're better off as one nation any way.

Originally Posted by YNKYH8R

So what. It was a dumb move by the south. I think we're better off as one nation any way.

Why was it dumb? If that is true then it was dumb of us to declare our independence from GB.

Originally Posted by tngirl

Adam, this sounds rather insulting.

Really?

Originally Posted by tngirl

Why was it dumb? If that is true then it was dumb of us to declare our independence from GB.

I figure what's the point of fighting for independence from GB if the country is going to be divided.

Originally Posted by YNKYH8R

I figure what's the point of fighting for independence from GB if the country is going to be divided.

What's the point of fighting and dying for your independence only to find yourself in basically the same position?

Originally Posted by tngirl

What's the point of fighting and dying for your independence only to find yourself in basically the same position?

Well if that was the point of view of the south at the time then they were justified to try...but they lost...so...c'est le vie.

Originally Posted by YNKYH8R

Well if that was the point of view of the south at the time then they were justified to try...but they lost...so...c'est le vie.

Yes, unfortunately they did loose.