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  1. #12
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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    Quote Originally Posted by janelle
    It's shameful more men are not bellying up to do their duty. I met a woman soldier on my last pland trip. She is afraid she and her husband may both be sent to Iraq. They have an eighteen month old baby and her mother will be taking care of him if both go. She was coming back from training and wanted to get home to visit her family and see her baby. Then her hubby and baby are going back to the base and wait orders.

    She and many other women who are mothers of babies will go to protect us cause we have a volunteer army and if the president re-instates the draft the Dems will raise a stink about how horrible the president is to send all those young people to war. Well people, we now have young mothers going to Iraq to protect our sorry butts. And we cry for the terrorists who would kill us as soon as look at us. How backward is this?????
    Well, women can't exactly be on the front line in the conventional sense. Plus with this "war" going the way it is what do you expect people to do jump in line to join up? And you know the President will not re-instate the draft. The republicans have been hammering that home for over a year now.
    Looking for Sympathy? It's in the Dictionary between Sh!t and Syphilis.

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  3. #13

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    There are 65 countries believed to have terrorists organizations in them, should we bomb them all? Another thing you people all scream and shout about how horrible the terrorists are, I agree they are committing horrendous acts but they see us as the villains and to torture and mistreat POW's only proves that to them and the world and brings us down to that level.

    And there is plenty of evidence that we have been mistreating POW's, one of them a Canadian journalist (I can post links to stories about what he endured).

    My uncle was a POW in the Korean War, another uncle died in the war fighting for this country, many of my family have fought and died for this country, my SIL just signed back up, so please don't preach to me about bellying up to serve.

    Some of you talk about 911 as though thats why we went to Iraq, we went into Afghanistan after Bin Laden due to what happened on 911, and I, like most Americans supported this.

    I did not and do not support the war in Iraq. No, I have not forgotten the horror of 911 but because it happened does not give us as a nation the right to break the world laws, to go into a soveriegn nation and spill the blood of innocents caught in the crossfire, innocent civilians are dying, innocent civilans are being maimed for life. Do you really think that this is going to make these people have a strong tendency to like us and not be terrorists?

    It has been proven over and over again that Saddam had no links to al-Qaida, he was afraid of them. He saw them take over Afghanistan, he did not want them in his country for fear the same thing would happen yet at every twist and turn Bush in his speeches and the conservative pundits tried to tie him to them so that we had an excuse to go into Iraq. Get this straight I am not saying I feel symnpathy for Saddam Hussein, I asm saying all intelligence reports proves he had no ties to al-Qaida. Who do I have sympathy for in this war in Iraq? Our military and their family members, our allies few as they may be and their family members and the Iraqi civilains.

    Saddam would have went down, eventually his own people would have brought him down, there is no doubt about that but this is the same man who we supported not long ago and helped keep in power and the whole time these very same atrocities that so many shout about as being the reason for going into Iraq (after the WMD's were not found) and bringing down Saddam were being committed and guess what, we knew and still supported him!!!! I doubt you will hear about this from Sean Hannity. (check this out!!! I am sure some of you will find some of your favorite war supporters).
    http://www.chickenhawkcards.com/
    There were other ways to bring down Saddam down without this war, there was no way to get to all that precious oil without a war. In his 48 hrs until attack speech Bush made it clear by what he said to the Iraqi people what was important. He warned them not to damage the oil wells. If you don't know what he said I will be glad to provide a link to the white house official website with a copy of his exact speech.

    I find it ironic that conservatives speak of morality and justice as though they are the only ones owning it and paying for it. What is justice, is it an eye for an eye? Be careful that is how terrorist's think. Justice to me, for someone held as a terrorist is when someone commits a crime against humanity and we as a nation or if it be a world court go by the laws that we hold so dearly and use them to prosecute the terorists, we give them a trial, we give them the opportunity to prove their innocents and we take the same opportunity to prove their guilt. These are the laws and the rights and the freedoms that our soldiers have fought and died for and now because we are angry and have been attacked its ok to toss that aside, I think not! Those laws and rights and freedoms were paid for by the blood of Americans throughout history and should be cherished and upheld for all, not tossed aside like a piece of garbage because we are angry and want revenge.

    Justice is not served by holding someone for years without a trial, torturing someone until we are convinced of their guilt or innocence. That is wrong no matter what we as a nation do we should at least adhere to the Geneva Convention. And all this nonsense about why we do not have to adhere by the geneva convention's rule on these POWs treatment is bull.

    The attack and deaths of those victims of 911 were horrendous and we as a nation came together to mourn the loss, and of course we were angry and wounded and wanted justice but that did not give us the right to go out and break international laws. The terrorists saw themselves as angry and wounded too, does that excuse what they did? No of course not!!!!!

    Last but not least the supporting of the troops, I am sick of the fact that the moment anyone says anything that does not agree with the status quo, that anyone gives voice to a dissenting opinion they are painted as a traitor. Janelle, you have no right to say something like this to me or anyone else who disagrees with this war and you should apoligize. A member of my own family has served in Iraq (14 months) and Afghanistan (6months). I support the troops and feel nothing but sympathy for them and their families, I support their families getting what is needed while they are away. I support their getting what is needed when they get home. I support them having body armor, top of the line, the best, the most efficient body armor available while in battle. My SIL went for medical help at the VA and was turned away. I support this not happening to anyone else due to budget cuts. Even though I see this war as being wrong, (we were lied to about WMD, the downing street memo proves it) and believe our troops should not be there, they should be home and see this as supporting them. I support them being treated as heroes when they come home regardless of how I feel about this war. I've never understood how continually supporting a war is supporting the troops who have to fight and maybe be wounded or die in a war but to point out the facts of this war which do not support the status quo and does not support their staying in a war is considered by some as not supporting the troops.

    Janelle I have the right to give voice to a dissenting opinion, last time I checked that is still a right in this country. Sadly though that right is being attacked by many. I find it ironic.
    http://www.nlg.org/resources/DissentBookWeb.pdf

    Most war supporters really believe the terrorists hate our freedoms but yet the moment someone exercises one of those rights, the right of dissent, they are accused of being a traitor. To disagree with the status quo is not committing an act of treason, unless we live where there is a dictatorship. How many of you have actually looked outside the mainstream news? (6 corporations own our mainstream news sources and many of those same corporations are making money off of this war) And yet many don't seem to understand that the true role of the journalists is to give a platform to both sides, that is not true any longer. If you only look to the mainstream news you are not getting the full picture. Of the people and pundits shown discussing this war 97% was for the war, people not supporting this war 3% shown on tv and only then people out protesting, not pundits who had the facts and the education to point out the facts of why we should not be in this war and there are many available. There are also many who are protesting but you won't see much about that on your news Do you really think your tv news gave you a fair and honest picture. What about the heroes of this war? Not one flag draped coffin is shown,(coffin ban, its illegal to show it) and hardly any stories showing the mangled and wounded from this war.

    I am not angry at anyone here I am very saddened by what I see happening in this country. I am very saddened by the loss of life of all the military and the suffering of their families. I am saddened by the standing we have as a nation in the world right now, in a recent poll we rated below the chinese, the world liked them better, remember this is a communist nation. I know why we are supposed to have went into this war, why I and everyone else is supposed to supported and I have looked at those facts and watched them fall apart. That did not happen as some on here said due to the liberals amd democrats (get real, the republicans outnumber the democrats, that is a lame argument now, the republicans and conservatives are in control). No WMD's found and that is the official report on WMD's.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...rld-poll_x.htm

    "It's amazing when you see the European public rating the United States so poorly, especially in comparison with China," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press. (Related site: Pew Global Survey)

    Eleven of the 16 countries surveyed by the Pew Research Center — Britain, France, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, Russia, Turkey, Pakistan, Lebanon, Jordan and Indonesia — had a more favorable view of China than the U.S.
    Ignorance is bliss but the question is can we afford it?

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    BRAVO! Mesue well said.
    Looking for Sympathy? It's in the Dictionary between Sh!t and Syphilis.

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    I agree good post, mesue. Like you I am saddened by what is happening to this country. And soooo unbelievably fast.
    You can't get ahold of water by clutching it but let your hand relax & you can experience it..Dyer

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    Well lots of people thought Hitler was just misunderstood too. And war does have it's ugly side. Innocents killed but why are you crying over the Iraqi innocents more than our people and London's people???

    War is hell and we all know that but the media does not tell about the Iraqi people who are thankful we are there and saving them from the horrors of past decades under Saddam.

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    Janelle,

    Do you have any sons or daughters? If so, are you encouraging them to enlist and fight?

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    I never said the terrorists were misunderstood, but they clearly see themselves as victims and they see that supposed victimization as a reason and an excuse for what they did and still do. At least thats what the news reports say, I never said that they were right or misunderstood.

    I think I made it clear that I like the rest of my countryman have a great sense of loss and rage after 911 and I have complete sympathy for the family's of 911 victims, (many of whom are against this war) but Janelle that outrage does not give us the right to break international laws, to totally disregard what we were supposed to stand for. It does not give us the right to sweep people up in this country and foreign countries and hold them without charges or trial for years and torture them. (I can provide statements made by former prisoners who have been released and were never charged at the time they were held or after, with anything.) Some of these people's families don't even know where they are, they have no access to an attorney or representation.

    BTW Saddam Hussein (remember this is the same man who perpetrated those horrors)does have attorneys but most of the prisoners do not, if he is afforded that right, why not the prisoners in Abu Grahib and Guantanamo? Being accused of something does not make one guilty, being accused of something does not give anyone the right to torture anyone or to kill anyone. http://www.hrw.org/english/docs/2005...usint10545.htm
    At least that what we in this country used to believe. Do you think it does? Studies have proven that people will say anything to stop torture and that information gathered that way is usually not credible.

    War is not only as you described but also in this case perpetrated up on us all by a lie. (See the Downing Street memo.) Why do you accuse me of having no sympathy for our military and our people of 911 and the people of London? When I made it clear that I did? By my having sympathy for the Iraqi civilians does that say to you that I have none or less for the loss of our own people and allies?

    I don't understand; you talk about all the greater good we are doing for the Iraqi people but sweep away the thousands wounded and dead with a three word phrase. Are you sweeping away the loss of our own victims of this war as easily with the same phrase? I hope not.

    Here you can see some faces of those innocent civilians wounded and dead, also the faces of the soldiers who are horrified by this horrible circumstance, young men and women doing only as ordereed, be warned its hard to look at this, though fortunately all the children in these photos survived, their parents did not.
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...450218,00.html
    (in regard to these photos, one must also realize that the soldiers had no choice and did as ordered but think of being a family driving through a war torn country being flagged down by people in the dark, perhaps they could not tell who was flagging them down, who knows why they did not stop?)
    The soldiers will forever have to live with this and will no doubt suffer all their lives because of it, if they survive this war. And when they get home and suffer from post traumatic distress and are desperately trying to deal with the horrors of war creeping into their minds everyday, and go to VA I wonder if they will be turned away as quickly as my SIL was. I know these soldiers are doing as ordered and have absolutely no choice; but it is difficult to deal with that as a reason, later on in life. What I am trying to say is that even after this war is over all, of the young men and women, having to take part in this war will suffer even if they come home without a single visible wound and when you send someone into war you are asking them to kill or be killed, thats a lot to ask and should never be taken lightly and should be only the absolute last resort, yes Janelle I think Of our military especially since I am seeing the effects of this war in my family.

    Again, 911 was not the reason we went into Iraq. Bin Laden was responsible for 911 (still out there) that was why we went into Afghanistan, not Iraq.
    Ignorance is bliss but the question is can we afford it?

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    I know we are veering off the subject but I've got some questions.

    1. If Saddam was such a menace to us (the US) why weren't there any plans in the works before 9/11. Why did 9/11 spark Iraq?
    2. Since most Al Quida fighters are coming from Saudi Arabia when then are the skirmishes along the Syrian border and not more news of fighting or dettaining along the Saudi/Iraq border?
    3. Why is the VP (Cheney) saying the insurgency is in it's last throws, and Rummy saying we'll be there for 12 years and Bush talking about pulling out troops in '06. Do these guys go to the same meeting?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8544060/
    Looking for Sympathy? It's in the Dictionary between Sh!t and Syphilis.

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    Also Janelle I forgot to ask since in one of the posts you mentioned bellying up to serve, where are the Bush twins? Their the same age as Jessica Lynch? Where are the Cheney children? Does Rumsfeld have children or grandchildren of fighting age, if so where are they? what about Paul Wolfowitz, where are his children? My point is we keep hearing these people talk about how this war is neccessary and showing how hawkish they are for war, well let them serve up some of their precious family members, let them make a sacrifice if it s so important. Why are the only people there the children of the poor and the middle class?
    Ignorance is bliss but the question is can we afford it?

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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    That's what gets me. 60 million people voted for Bush, you'd think they could come up with at least a million young fighting age men to fight this war. Where are they. Sorry, but I think the republicans need to start putting up or shutting up.

    If you don't have any sons to put on the sacraficial altar, that's fine, just don't be so quick to volunteer mine through a draft, unless you have a couple of your own to send as well.
    The secret is hidden right before your eyes..

  12. #22
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    Re: 'Close Guantanamo'?

    But we do not have a draft. If the Dems had their way we would.

    And Mesue if it was 60 years ago you would be substituting Pearl Harbor for 9/11. You would be saying the same thing about that war.

    I have two SSs and one went in the Army right out of high school. He was in Bosnia but he can't tell us what he did there or if he was in any fighting. He was in danger and served his time. He got out after his four years were up so he missed Iraq but my nephews were in the Desert Storm war. So yes I have relatives who served and were in action.

    I thought we had a million fighting age men in the service but not everyone is in Iraq. We also have women in there and they have to still take up the slack. We have people joining everyday. They want to defend out country and keep it free.

    And Adam you are not going to get the president or anyone in government in sensitive areas to tell the public their plans. How better to give the enemy the plans so they will kill more of our soldiers. Those things do not happen in a war. I know Geraldo wants to get on TV and tell the world the Army's plans of attack but he is an idiiot.

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