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Jolie Rouge
12-08-2009, 10:13 PM
Death penalty for gays?
Uganda debates proposal
By Katharine Houreld And Godfrey Olukya, Associated Press Writers
Tue Dec 8, 3:36 pm ET

KAMPALA, Uganda – Proposed legislation would impose the death penalty for some gay Ugandans, and their family and friends could face up to seven years in jail if they fail to report them to authorities. Even landlords could be imprisoned for renting to homosexuals.

Gay rights activists say the bill, which has prompted growing international opposition, promotes hatred and could set back efforts to combat HIV/AIDS. They believe the bill is part of a continentwide backlash because Africa's gay community is becoming more vocal.

"It's a question of visibility," said David Cato, who became an activist after he was beaten up four times, arrested twice, fired from his teaching job and outed in the press because he is gay. "When we come out and ask for our rights, they pass laws against us."

The legislation has drawn global attention from activists across the spectrum of views on gay issues. The measure was proposed in Uganda following a visit by leaders of U.S. conservative Christian ministries that promote therapy for gays to become heterosexual. However, at least one of those leaders has denounced the bill, as have some other conservative and liberal Christians in the United States.

Gay rights activists say the legislation is likely to pass. But the bill is still being debated and could undergo changes before a vote, which has not yet been set.

The Ugandan legislation in its current form would mandate a death sentence for active homosexuals living with HIV or in cases of same-sex rape. "Serial offenders" also could face capital punishment, but the legislation does not define the term. Anyone convicted of a homosexual act faces life imprisonment.

Anyone who "aids, abets, counsels or procures another to engage of acts of homosexuality" faces seven years in prison if convicted. Landlords who rent rooms or homes to homosexuals also could get seven years and anyone with "religious, political, economic or social authority" who fails to report anyone violating the act faces three years.

Gay rights activists abroad are focusing on the legislation. A protest against the bill is planned for Thursday in London; protests were held last month in New York and Washington.

David Bahati, the legislator sponsoring the bill, said he was encouraging "constructive criticism" to improve the law, but insisted strict measures were necessary to stop homosexuals from "recruiting" schoolchildren.

"The youths in secondary schools copy everything from the Western world and America," said high school teacher David Kisambira. "A good number of students have been converted into gays. We hear there are groups of people given money by some gay organizations in developed countries to recruit youth into gay activities."

Uganda's ethics minister, James Nsaba Buturo, said the death sentence clause would probably be reviewed but maintained the law was necessary to counter foreign influence. He said homosexuality "is not natural in Uganda," a view echoed by some Ugandans.

"I feel that the bill is good and necessary, but I don't think gays should be killed. They should be imprisoned for about a year and warned never to do it again. The family is in danger in Uganda because the rate at which vice is spreading is appalling," said shopkeeper John Muwanguzi.

Uganda is not the only country considering anti-gay laws. Nigeria, where homosexuality is already punishable by imprisonment or death, is considering strengthening penalties for activities deemed to promote it. Burundi just banned same-sex relationships and Rwanda is considering it.

Homophobia is rife even in more tolerant African countries.

In Kenya, homosexuality is illegal but the government has acknowledged its existence by launching sexual orientation survey to improve health care. Nevertheless, the recent marriage of two Kenyan men in London caused outrage. The men's families in Kenya were harassed by reporters and villagers.

In South Africa, the only African nation to recognize gay marriage, gangs carry out so-called "corrective" rapes on lesbians. A 19-year-old lesbian athlete was gang-raped, tortured and murdered in 2008.

Debate over the Ugandan bill follows a conference in Kampala earlier this year attended by American activists who consider same-gender relationships sinful, and believe gays and lesbians can become heterosexual through prayer and counseling. Author Don Schmierer and "sexual reorientation coach" Caleb Lee Brundidge took part; they did not respond to interview requests.

A third American who took part in the conference in Uganda, Scott Lively, said the bill has gone too far.

"I agree with the general goal but this law is far too harsh," said Lively, a California-based preacher and author of "The Pink Swastika" and other books that advise parents how to "recruit-proof" their children from gays.

"Society should actively discourage all sex outside of marriage and that includes homosexuality ... The family is under threat," he said. Gay people "should not be parading around the streets," he added.

Frank Mugisha, a gay Ugandan human rights activist, said the bill was so poorly worded that someone could be imprisoned for giving a hug.

"This bill is promoting hatred," he said. "We're turning Uganda into a police state. It will drive people to suicide."

Buturo played down the influence of foreign evangelicals, saying the proposed legislation was an expression of popular outrage against "repugnant" practices. But activists like Cato argue anti-gay attitudes are a foreign import.

"In the beginning, when the missionaries brought religion, they said they were bringing love," he said. "Instead they brought hate, through homophobia."

Susan Timberlake, a senior adviser on human rights and law from UNAIDS, said such laws could hinder the fight against HIV/AIDS by driving people further underground. And activists also worry that the legislation could be used to blackmail or silence government critics.

Cato said he thinks the Ugandan bill will pass, perhaps in an altered form.

"It's such a setback. But I hope we can overcome it," he said. "I cannot believe this is happening in the 21st century."

___

Associated Press Writer Katharine Houreld reported from Nairobi, Kenya.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091208/ap_on_re_af/af_uganda_gay_death_penalty

galeane29
12-08-2009, 10:54 PM
Eh? that is so wrong. I may not agree with the lifestyle but to be put to death for it, don't think so.

tarasdream
12-09-2009, 12:29 AM
that is so wrong

janelle
12-09-2009, 01:34 AM
Libs here are working overtime to link American ministers to this. Sick.

hesnothere
12-09-2009, 03:16 AM
Libs here are working overtime to link American ministers to this. Sick.

US politicians and Evangelicals are involved, did you even read the article? Here's more

Uganda anti-gay bill supported by US Congressmen and Evangelists

http://www.examiner.com/x-4107-International-LGBT-Issues-Examiner~y2009m11d29-US-Congressmen-support-Uganda-AntiHomosexuality-Death-Penalty-Law-in-the-name-of-Jesus

Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) has taken at least 20 "missionary" trips overseas since he's been in office, allegedly paid for by U.S. taxpayers, using military transport. He is especially fond of Uganda, boasting that he has "adopted" the East African nation.


Inhofe took David Bahati under his wing, making him a core member of the Family. Bahati is the author of Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill. The Bill creates a new crime called "aggravated homosexuality" in Uganda and imposes automatic life imprisonment or the death penalty for its offense. "Aggravated homosexuality" is defined by the Bill as sex with a disabled person, having HIV/AIDS, use of drugs or alcohol that leads to gay sex, knowing a gay person and not reporting it, or speaking positively about same-sex marriage.

Bahati is head of the Family-sponsored Africa Leadership Forum,. It's likely the "Bahati Bill", as it is commonly known in Uganda, will become law, because of the Family's financial support, power, and influence in country. Sharlet says the Family has poured millions of dollars into the Ugandan Anti-Homosexuality campaign, and considers Uganda's President Yoweri Museveni as the "key man" for the Family in Uganda. Sharlet says Museveni can go to Brownback or any other Family member if he wants money for arms or anything else, and stays at the Family-owned Cedars House when he's in D.C.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/29/uganda-death-sentence-gay-sex

Both opponents and supporters agree that the impetus for the a more hardline law came in March during a seminar in Kampala to "expose the truth behind homosexuality and the homosexual agenda".

The main speakers were three US evangelists: Scott Lively, Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge. Lively is a noted anti-gay activist and president of Defend the Family International, a conservative Christian association, while Schmierer is an author who works with "homosexual recovery groups". Brundidge is a "sexual reorientation coach" at the International Healing Foundation.

Bahet
12-09-2009, 06:57 AM
No one has to work overtime to make those people look bad. They are doing a bang up job all by themselves. Sickening.

janelle
12-09-2009, 10:51 AM
Well they probably take money for AIDS victims when they go there. They may be able to change the death sentences for those who are going to be put to death in more ways than one. I need to hear why they go there before being judgmental.

Kelsey1224
12-09-2009, 10:54 AM
No one has to work overtime to make those people look bad. They are doing a bang up job all by themselves. Sickening.


Thank you!!! I am a (gasp...act horrified) so called "lib". And I am also an evangelical Christian. Those people are the ones who give the rest of us 'Christian's' a bad name. So, before we start lib-bashing...let us look at these so-called Christians. Hmmmm...could they be conservative???

I have some very dear friends who happen to be gay. I love them no less. I also have a gay friend who is a minister of a Presbyterian church in Atlanta. I will NOT judge them. That's God's job...just as He will judge me for my own sinful heart!

gmyers
12-09-2009, 11:14 AM
Thats wrong. No one should be put to death for that. And their families shouldn't be put in prison either. And where are they going to live if landlords wont rent to them. Why don't they spend more time on educating people about how to prevent aids and hiv rather than do what they're doing. I'm sure theres people there that aren't gay that have the disease too. They've fallen into the stereotype that aids and hiv is a disease that only gay people get. That sounds like what Hitler tried to do.

hesnothere
12-09-2009, 11:53 AM
Well they probably take money for AIDS victims when they go there. They may be able to change the death sentences for those who are going to be put to death in more ways than one. I need to hear why they go there before being judgmental.

They went there with the sole purpost to "expose the truth behind homosexuality and the homosexual agenda". (taken from the article I linked above)

krisharry
12-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Anyone who supports this type of law is a complete idiot and a horrible human being.

SHELBYDOG
12-09-2009, 06:43 PM
Well they probably take money for AIDS victims when they go there. They may be able to change the death sentences for those who are going to be put to death in more ways than one. I need to hear why they go there before being judgmental.

But it seems to me your already being judgmental in your statement here, I mean do you honestly believe this? :huh


Libs here are working overtime to link American ministers to this. Sick.

janelle
12-09-2009, 11:36 PM
I am going by what I heard on the Rachel Maddow show.

I can't believe American Ministers are supporting this law. I went to Rick Warren web site and so far nothing about it on there.

Now if you have a person with AIDS going around and intentionally infecting children and others one may consider a harsh punishment but for just being gay, it's ludicrous to think of it.

gmyers
12-09-2009, 11:54 PM
Isn't it in that country where they believe you can get rid of aids and hiv by having sex with a virgin? And some are raping young girls. If thats the case then they should go to prison.

janelle
12-10-2009, 12:02 AM
I never heard that but from watching Oprah's show today where the man gave AIDS to so many women without a hint of doing anything wrong I wouldn't want someone like him running around on the streets.

We forget Africa has a huge epidemic of AIDS. It has affected the children the worse, being born from an AIDS mother. I can understand them going overboard in response but this won't help their situation.

Bahet
12-10-2009, 01:29 AM
I never heard that but from watching Oprah's show today where the man gave AIDS to so many women without a hint of doing anything wrong I wouldn't want someone like him running around on the streets.

We forget Africa has a huge epidemic of AIDS. It has affected the children the worse, being born from an AIDS mother. I can understand them going overboard in response but this won't help their situation.

That man doesn't sound gay. They aren't talking about putting people like him to death. They are talking about executing any homosexual. A homosexual, monogamous, healthy couple would be executed. A heterosexual with AIDS who has sex with virgins to try to cure himself would not. Also, his family wouldn't be jailed and landlords could rent to him.

This law has nothing to do with AIDS.

freeby4me
12-10-2009, 05:16 AM
That man doesn't sound gay. They aren't talking about putting people like him to death. They are talking about executing any homosexual. A homosexual, monogamous, healthy couple would be executed. A heterosexual with AIDS who has sex with virgins to try to cure himself would not. Also, his family wouldn't be jailed and landlords could rent to him.

This law has nothing to do with AIDS.

Of course not, some people want to look at it like its Gods' punishment though.

hesnothere
12-10-2009, 06:21 AM
What it boils down to is that evangelists and politicians butted their noses in where they didn't belong and it backfired big time. Now real live people may die while the instigators are sitting in their warm homes hating on everyone who doesn't believe the way they do.

krisharry
12-10-2009, 07:37 AM
What if they proposed a law that stated all heterosexual, monogamous people would be put to death? Far different reaction I bet.

Bahet
12-10-2009, 10:03 AM
I can predict the future if this passes. Gay people will marry members of the opposite sex just so they appear straight to the outside world. The number of former homosexuals who say they are "cured" will drastically increase and the fundies will cry "See? We told you they could be cured!"

hesnothere
12-10-2009, 10:20 AM
I can predict the future if this passes. Gay people will marry members of the opposite sex just so they appear straight to the outside world. The number of former homosexuals who say they are "cured" will drastically increase and the fundies will cry "See? We told you they could be cured!"

I was thinking the exact same thing. I know someone who went through a brainwashing for the cure type program, thankfully now he's fully out and happy.

Kelsey1224
12-10-2009, 12:12 PM
What if they proposed a law that stated all heterosexual, monogamous people would be put to death? Far different reaction I bet.

Sounds like George Orwell's "1984". If I remember correctly (and it has been many, many, many years since I read the book)...to control the world's population, 'society' supported homosexuality. Those who broke the rules were executed!!

Kelsey1224
12-10-2009, 12:13 PM
I need to hear why they go there before being judgmental.

Wow...is this a New Year's resolution? (Sorry...I couldn't resist...LOL)

Jolie Rouge
12-10-2009, 03:36 PM
What if they proposed a law that stated all heterosexual, monogamous people would be put to death? Far different reaction I bet.

:confused: What reaction would you expect ? The response here has pretty much been disgust, anger and horror that they would presume to put anyone to death based on their sexual preferences. I am also NOT happy that people who are *supposed* to be representing the Constitution and the people that elected them to hold office are instead traveling to other countries to advocate something as horrindous as this.


I can't believe American Ministers are supporting this law. I went to Rick Warren web site and so far nothing about it on there.

They shouldn't be - MHO If they are they would be ashamed to put this in writing ANYWHERE much less online where it would be globally ridiculed.

janelle
12-10-2009, 04:09 PM
Is there a link online?

Jolie Rouge
12-10-2009, 04:16 PM
A link to what ??

janelle
12-10-2009, 04:49 PM
Any link to what the ministers have to say?

krisharry
12-10-2009, 05:43 PM
:confused: What reaction would you expect ? The response here has pretty much been disgust, anger and horror that they would presume to put anyone to death based on their sexual preferences. I am also NOT happy that people who are *supposed* to be representing the Constitution and the people that elected them to hold office are instead traveling to other countries to advocate something as horrindous as this.



They shouldn't be - MHO If they are they would be ashamed to put this in writing ANYWHERE much less online where it would be globally ridiculed.




I was referring to the so called ministers and politicians who support this hideous law, not to anyone on this board.

Jolie Rouge
12-10-2009, 09:08 PM
I was referring to the so called ministers and politicians who support this hideous law, not to anyone on this board.

Thank you - I was confused. I am not sure I could keep up with the twisted logic one would have to conjure to justify this type of travesty

Kelsey1224
12-10-2009, 09:20 PM
Rick Warren has made a statement that he opposes this hideous law!

janelle
12-10-2009, 10:34 PM
Rick Warren has made a statement that he opposes this hideous law!

That is the link I am looking for. It's easy to blame people and then let it be out there without rebuttal from them. I don't see an article to confirm or deny the allegation.

Bahet
12-11-2009, 12:33 AM
You get an email from your cousin's friend's aunt's sister or an op/ed piece from a talking head and you post it as fact and argue the point but for this you demand more and more proof?

Personally, I'd like to see more before I chastize any particular person either. But I also don't post email forwards and op/ed pieces as fact or truth.

janelle
12-11-2009, 01:18 AM
I usually go to Snopes to check it out. If I find it is false I email the person back to tell them. Snopes has nothing about this.

Also, saying something about a person's op-ed is quite different than this accusation of supporting an atrocious bill like this one.

hesnothere
12-11-2009, 03:51 AM
I posted a link containing the names and positions of the evangelists and politicians involved and what their intentions were. Nobody is saying they went there to promote the execution of homosexuals or support a bill to do such. They went there with a certain agenda and it snowballed into something they didn't expect. All you have to do is read the links posted.

If they had never gone there with their personal agenda this wouldn't be happening. An avalanche usually starts with one little pebble.

hesnothere
12-11-2009, 03:54 AM
Rick Warren has made a statement that he opposes this hideous law!

I'm sure that most people oppose this travesty, at least publicly. One of the evangelists who went over their initially has come out against it also. Perhaps he should have thought about all the consequences before he went.

gmyers
12-11-2009, 06:05 AM
It sounds to me like that country has an epidemic of aids and hiv and doesn't know what to do about it. And they're taking drastic and wrong steps to get a handle on it out of fear. Some countries think death is the only recourse for everything.

freeby4me
12-11-2009, 06:12 AM
It sounds to me like that country has an epidemic of aids and hiv and doesn't know what to do about it. And they're taking drastic and wrong steps to get a handle on it out of fear. Some countries think death is the only recourse for everything.

Yes, and people from this country, ministers should know better. Having "the gay" is not how you get AIDS, and speaking out against Gay people is not going to help the AIDS pandemic over there.
Thats like me blaming the heat from Hawaii for causing global warming.

*I should add its not the ONLY way to get HIV AIDS*

gmyers
12-11-2009, 06:35 AM
We know that but I don't think that country does. When aids and hiv came out here people believed the same thing but now we don't. They need respected doctors to go over there and explain to them and show them that its not true.

freeby4me
12-11-2009, 06:50 AM
We know that but I don't think that country does. When aids and hiv came out here people believed the same thing but now we don't. They need respected doctors to go over there and explain to them and show them that its not true.

I totally agree! But, who are they going to believe? A "spiritual guide" or a doctor?
These "People of God" went over there with what they believed to be "good intentions" (yea right) and instead are going to end up with the blood of those murdered on their hands.

There needs to be a time when these people of "Faith" realize what damage they can and have done "IN the name of God" and back off. Just stop already.

gmyers
12-11-2009, 06:57 AM
Do you know for sure that those people going over there caused them to decide to do what they're doing or were they already doing it or going to do it before they went? A lot of countries think the only way to solve a problem is to eliminate it.

hesnothere
12-11-2009, 07:43 AM
Do you know for sure that those people going over there caused them to decide to do what they're doing or were they already doing it or going to do it before they went? A lot of countries think the only way to solve a problem is to eliminate it.

Yes, this is taken from what I have already posted:

Both opponents and supporters agree that the impetus for the a more hardline law came in March during a seminar in Kampala to "expose the truth behind homosexuality and the homosexual agenda".

The main speakers were three US evangelists: Scott Lively, Don Schmierer and Caleb Lee Brundidge. Lively is a noted anti-gay activist and president of Defend the Family International, a conservative Christian association, while Schmierer is an author who works with "homosexual recovery groups". Brundidge is a "sexual reorientation coach" at the International Healing Foundation.