Finding out your friend is a level 3 sex offender... (long)

[diana_circe]

OK, so this will probably get moved to vent/whine, but its really not a vent beyond I need to talk about it, its slightly disturbing to my hubby and I. We know what we need to do, and have no pause in breaking off the relationship. But here's our story.

About seven and a half years ago Mike was working at a landscaping job he worked for over the summers. He met two guys, both relatives of the owner, both his age. Mike got along awesomely with both guys and they became very close friends. Over the next year both guys came around a lot, we had weekends with one or both of them here, and they became part of our family.

One was married with two kids, and he was one that we got along with the most since we had more in common, and that guy ended up being Mike's best man at our wedding.

The other guy was a little bit of a loner, never had a girlfriend, which we thought was odd as he was 28 and not ugly or socially inept or anything. He and Mike got along well, the guy was very creative musically and he and Mike would often write music and lyrics together. He would come up and hang out with us and watch movies etc. He and Mike weren't as close, but when he stopped coming around we missed him. We knew he had gotten into some trouble with the law, and thought we had an idea of what it was about, but man, were we mistaken.

Fast forward to last May. The first guy hadn't been coming around for a while. He and his wife went through a nasty divorce the year before and his new gf is way younger than him and she ended up getting pregnant shortly after they got together. The second guy had occasionally kept in touch with Mike, and last May asked if he could come around and bring his gf for us to meet. We were thrilled, It had been so long since we had a couple to hang out with, and Mike was excited to have someone to talk music with again. They had been coming here a couple times a month, and we had been going there when we could arrange for the younger ones to have someone with them for the evening. On Friday he told Mike they wanted to come out early so they could talk to us and let us know what he was in trouble with the law for. Mike, being the compassionate friend he is said that wasn't necessary, but the guy insisted saying that now that we had all gotten so close he didn't want us to find out later from someone else and hate him.

Well, I think that happened anyway... I was in the bathroom getting ready to take the kids trick or treating, and when I came out I went out to show Mike, who was outside smoking. He looked at me and told me that when the guy was 25 he molested a 5 yo boy. I guess the guy feels he is rehabilitated, he had several years of intense therapy and some jail time, etc. They stayed a while, but the guy could obviously feel the discomfort and they took off.

Mike and I talked until 1:30 in the morning, and he is absolutely furious with the guy for coming around before he was arrested, and then for hanging around so long this time and not telling us while we put our kids in possible jeopardy by having him around.

I am, of course, disgusted and disturbed and worried about my kids, but he was Mike's friend. I liked his gf well enough, but mostly tolerated her so Mike had a guy to buddy around with since it had been so long since the other guy had been around and he has no other real male friends to be a guy with. I feel so bad for him, he's hurt and angry and disappointed in so many ways.

Anyway, I just needed to share. Its hard to make sense of it in my head and I don't know what to do for Mike to help him at all. We'll be talking to the kids today, although I really feel that if anything happened to them they would have talked to us (I hope I hope I hope) but we have to be as certain as we can... This is definitely one situation I never thought we'd be dealing with.

[Licchl05]

Wow, that is definately a sticky situation. If I were ever faced with it I'm not exactly sure how I would react, so I have no advice for you, but I completely understand the anger that you and dh have towards him; with you having children the guy should have told you, but then on the other hand he was scared of losing the friendship. I like to believe people can change, but I wouldn't want to put my kids in a situation that is a potential danger either....

[diana_circe]

We knew he was in trouble for a sexual crime, but we were under the impression it was a longer time ago and it was something akin to statutory rape. Which, of course is not OK, but an 18-20 yo with a 15 or 16 year old, while not acceptable to us, seems more understandable than a child crime. I guess in my head I understand how a girl that age could entice an inexperienced guy of that age... Of course, we have an 18 year old, and when she was 15 or 16 there is no way I'd want her dating an 18, 19 or 20 year old. So I guess our feelings might be different if we had had to deal with that.

I know there is no way we want him around out kids. Our youngest kiddos are 9 and 12, and pretty sheltered. He admitted to Mike last night that before he was arrested he was trying to set up other kids, but said that he is past those desires now.

I just don't know... Its so hard to end a friendship, true friends are so scarce, but I can't imagine associating with someone who would hurt a child, especially in that manner. The 5yo was somebody's baby, somebody's innocent child, who will have to deal with that the rest of their life.

[whatever]

Its NO secret I do NOT have kids and am NO expert on child molesting topics. But I have been around them in more ways than I care to. And from my experience and what you hear from experts MOST of the time they cannot be rehabilitated. Its something in them......He may very well be an exception. And I truly hope for your dh he is. But in your case I would watch my kids like a hawk when he comes around them and NEVER leave him alone with them just to be on the safe side........

[diana_circe]

whatever, I can't imagine letting him around our kids now that we know. We have been talking about this since they left last night and I don't know if there is any way to get around what we now know. Mike likened it to being an alcoholic. They may be able to resist the urge, and some times are easier than others, but the desire is still there and sometimes very hard to resist. I know its a totally different situation, but I can't imagine possibly putting my kids, or the kids of any of our friends and family, in what could be an unsafe situation for them. We could never forgive ourselves if something were to have happened. Not to mention, those around us would be furious for knowingly putting our kids and their's in that situation.

[jerseybarb]

I know people can change and change profoundly (I know I did). But part of being a recovering child molester is avoiding kids like an recovering alcoholic avoids bars and liquor stores. I don't have kids, although I was molested when I was a kid. If you continue the friendship, do like everybody says, don't leave him alone with any children. He may have the intention of not reoffending, but try to avoid putting him in any temptation. He does have a girlfriend so maybe having an outlet will help too

[Jolie Rouge]

No advice .. just a :hug and a :pray

[WendyLou75]

Hrm... If it were me, I'd be beating him within an inch of his life... but that's only because I have zero tolerance for Child Molesters and IF there is a Hell I hope there's a special place for them. I say this because John, and one of his sisters were sexually abused as children...by their Mom's Husband. (their step dad) I know very little of what happened... but I do know it was bad enough that he has a very difficult time watching any talk show about child molestors... however he claims that because he knows he should he totally forgives Wayne for doing it. I do know that it was for at least 1 year, possibly 2 years... and he was 10 years old when it started. Wayne also did some "things" to his sisters...but not sure which one...might of been both. They believe Wayne did something to John's older sister, because she ran away at a young age, and was pretty much a terror to any and all men. BUT John did not tell his Mom what happened until he was 26. So of course nothing could be done. :getyou

John says that he will never tell me the full story and he still struggles with it today, he is now 42.

So... if it were me, he would never come around again...and I'd of already been on the phone with cops. Shouldn't he be on the registered sex offenders thing???

[msmom79]

this is not easy for me to say,but i was molested by my uncles and also raped by a guy,no way in hell i would let a person-no matter who it was around my children,if i knew for a fact,that they were a convicted child molester- i am sorry,but it wouldnt happen here-no friendship,is worth my childs safety,jmoho

[queenangie]

The choice is simple: you protect your children and dump the friendship ASAP.

Our first responsibility is as parents.

Am glad to hear that you are very protective of your children.

[fleabones3]

I am going to be the odd ball out here and I will get flamed I am sure....

Most times I would agree with everyone else on this BUT... he did come talk to you guys face to face, something 99% of them would never do. 2nd of all, he did go to intensive therapy, something else most of them dont do.
He could have kept his mouth shut,and kept coming around for years before you MIGHT have found out. The fact that he told you means he respects your family and trusts you. Some can be rehabilitated. I think maybe you guys need some time to think. Because if he was a good friend, doesnt he deserve a 2nd chance? I am NOT saying risk your kids. Now that you know, never leave him alone with your kids. But that doesnt mean your DH can't still hang out with him and make music and be a " guy". Maybe that guy having a good close friend who knows his past and still likes him anyway can help him and keep him from repeating.

Before I get flamed to bad.. I have stepson in prison right now for lewd and laviscious acts with a minor under 16. Did he do it? no.. he was set up by his now ex wife and her cousin.. who happened to be the minor (15) who also happens to like to accuse older men of rape.. he was her 4th or 5th " rapist'.

I know its 2 different things..but, like I said,he did come to you guys ( albeit a year later) and tell you. That had to take a lot of guts, and respect for your family to do that,and to turn your back completely on him... well, I just think he deserves some kudos for that,although I am not excusing what he did to that 5 year old,and odds are he was molested as a child

[msmom79]

I am one of those kids that was molested and raped-please dont put your children in this difficult situation-i know people can change-but dont take that chance-you see the pain never leaves a person who has had this done to them-you can get all the help in the world-but it doesnt take away the memories and the scars

[pepperpot]

I am going to be the odd ball out here and I will get flamed I am sure....

Most times I would agree with everyone else on this BUT... he did come talk to you guys face to face, something 99% of them would never do. 2nd of all, he did go to intensive therapy, something else most of them dont do.
He could have kept his mouth shut,and kept coming around for years before you MIGHT have found out. The fact that he told you means he respects your family and trusts you. Some can be rehabilitated. I think maybe you guys need some time to think. Because if he was a good friend, doesnt he deserve a 2nd chance? I am NOT saying risk your kids. Now that you know, never leave him alone with your kids. But that doesn't mean your DH can't still hang out with him and make music and be a " guy". Maybe that guy having a good close friend who knows his past and still likes him anyway can help him and keep him from repeating.

Before I get flamed to bad.. I have stepson in prison right now for lewd and laviscious acts with a minor under 16. Did he do it? no.. he was set up by his now ex wife and her cousin.. who happened to be the minor (15) who also happens to like to accuse older men of rape.. he was her 4th or 5th " rapist'.

I know its 2 different things..but, like I said,he did come to you guys ( albeit a year later) and tell you. That had to take a lot of guts, and respect for your family to do that,and to turn your back completely on him... well, I just think he deserves some kudos for that,although I am not excusing what he did to that 5 year old,and odds are he was molested as a child

Fleabones, I will not flame you as I think you want to see the good in people.

Yes, I do believe that some people can change :agree but, I would not be willing to to gamble my children on it. :headshake

As for him fessing up? :shrug Perhaps it was not his idea and someone threatened him to come clean....like his parole officer or his brother....who knew he was 'hanging' around an environment with children. :shrug

Even if he were to just be friends with her DH, if the children know he was/is a 'friend'....what's to stop him from showing up at their school, club, playground, etc. or anywhere when you may not possibly be around? After all....you have trusted him previously...the children (even though now spoken to) might see him as 'safe' or believe that you 'had sent him there to get him/them since you were in an emergency'....you just never know....:(

I'd play it safe, tell the guy that you like him, appreciate his being honest but for you children's sake and your piece of mind....you friendship cannot be and wish him the very best of luck and what life has to offer.

[jerseybarb]

Pepperpot, I am torn between what you are saying and fleabones is saying. I have been thru profound changes in my life and I like to think, naively maybe, that people can overcome huge things in their lives. There is one fly in the ointment. The best way a child molester can keep from reoffending is to avoid children. Has he been friendly towards Diane's children? I have to wonder, if he is committed to not reoffending, why did he pick a guy with kids to hang out with? But whether or not diane and her DH continue the relationship, the guy should never be left alone with any children

[pepperpot]

I definitely hear you and feel real bad for the guy if he truly has changed..... :agree

But, one never knows. And I would never forgive myself if I trusted him and something happened to one or more of my children. It''s unfortunate, but I cannot give him the benefit of the doubt where my children are concerned. I would always try to error on the side for my children.

It's my children first.

[jerseybarb]

Yes you are right, the kids come first.

[Anniston]

Hugs to you, first of all, for dealing with this. Mike seems like a very good guy, and is torn up over this, and that is so sad.

I think that you have already decided that he should not be around your children. And that is a good thing. The last thing in the world you would want is for them to ever consider him to be a trustworthy "safe" person. Should you continue any contact at all, it should be going out as a couple to dinner or whatever. Just nothing social in your home.

The guy was at least honest enough to tell you his situation. So, that does say something about his character. In this situation, however, I don't think a molester's recovery should EVER be compared to a substance abuser who is in recovery. Because you can be friends with 100 ex-substance abusers without your children in real danger. I would have no qualms about befriending someone in substance abuse recovery. However, if I owned a tavern, I wouldn't put them in charge for a week. And as a parent, I would not let a person who has molested a child near enough my child to even see his photos on my wall.

[diana_circe]

I am going to be the odd ball out here and I will get flamed I am sure....

Most times I would agree with everyone else on this BUT... he did come talk to you guys face to face, something 99% of them would never do. 2nd of all, he did go to intensive therapy, something else most of them dont do.
He could have kept his mouth shut,and kept coming around for years before you MIGHT have found out. The fact that he told you means he respects your family and trusts you. Some can be rehabilitated. I think maybe you guys need some time to think. Because if he was a good friend, doesnt he deserve a 2nd chance? I am NOT saying risk your kids. Now that you know, never leave him alone with your kids. But that doesnt mean your DH can't still hang out with him and make music and be a " guy". Maybe that guy having a good close friend who knows his past and still likes him anyway can help him and keep him from repeating.

Before I get flamed to bad.. I have stepson in prison right now for lewd and laviscious acts with a minor under 16. Did he do it? no.. he was set up by his now ex wife and her cousin.. who happened to be the minor (15) who also happens to like to accuse older men of rape.. he was her 4th or 5th " rapist'.

I know its 2 different things..but, like I said,he did come to you guys ( albeit a year later) and tell you. That had to take a lot of guts, and respect for your family to do that,and to turn your back completely on him... well, I just think he deserves some kudos for that,although I am not excusing what he did to that 5 year old,and odds are he was molested as a child

oops, edited to change Pepperpot to fleabones :), there is no way I'm going to flame anyone for their opinion. I am also one who was molested as a child, and by a close family friend's son. So I have strong feelings on this besides just being a parent.

I do want to say that the only reason he went to the therapy was because it was the only way he could keep himself out of prison. It was a condition of his sentence. He would not have gone had he not been forced.

I do commend him for telling us himself. But he has been coming out and visiting us, sometimes staying the night if our activities ran too late for them to make the drive home, since May with us in ignorance. I know he didn't want us to find out from someone else, and get pissed that he didn't let us know.

But my first duty is to my kids, two of them not much older than the child he molested. I don't know that I believe in rehabilitation for that. From everything I have ever seen and heard about child molesters, there is no rehabilitation. I just can't chance my kids' safety and well being. And the fact alone that he once was able to hurt someone's child in that manner is enough for me to think its better if I keep my kids out of the equation. And since we have four kids, two too young to stay alone... Well, I'm sure you see where I am going with this.

[tammy77]

Why did this jerk wait all that time to tell you guys.If he really changed and was a TRUE friend then he would have told you guys right from the beginning.I could/would never trust that man again.In my eyes the friendship would be ruined and could never be fixed.Did you ever talk to your children?I pray that he never put his filthy hands on your children.

[fleabones3]

Yes I see what everyone is saying. My point was, the DH and the friend dont have to totally stop being friends. Maybe the DH can go to the friends house instead of vice versa.
I do like to see the good in people, and anybody can change. My DH 's ex wife spent years being a druggie. Now that the kids are grown, she has changed. She now lives with my stepdaughter and is helping take care of the grandkids ( stepdaughter is preg with baby #4) and is trying to make up for not being there. I know thats not the same as child molestation. And of course priority #1 is your children. And of course its your decision.. I just think maybe with the right circumstances, and your kids either not around him...and of course letting the kids know that the friends is a molester..

Then again.. its easier for me to speak not being in Diana's position...
I wish you luck and damn, that would suck to find out if it was one of my friends.

[MistyWolf]

I have two kids, both girls and this guy would be history. Yeah he came out and told you and yeah he might be "recovered," and never touch your kids .. but is he touching someone elses and not saying anything? .. That would always be in the back of my mind. That and what if he touched my kids? .. He'd be dead. So it would be best all around for him to stay away.

Sorry your having to go through this and I hope you find the answer your looking for.

[Bahet]

There are 7 billion people in the world. I am not so desperate for friends that I'd hang out with someone who would hurt a child.

[msmom79]

do you guys know-i mean actually know how many children,and children that are now adults.have been molested? i am sure i cant count how many,i just know i'm one out of alot,and i'm sure there is more right here,who,have been touched,kissed and you know the rest. can you say for a fact,that your child was not touched by this man,and he said to your child,oh i';m sorry like it was an accident---please please dont take that chance!!!!!
look up your area for child molesters,i am sure you have alot of them in your area,that you dont even know about
pure and simple-protect your children-no other way to go then to say all ties severed

[WendyLou75]

I like this guy even less now that I know he actually spent the night at your home, with your children, BEFORE admitting to this... now my mind is running wild with what he may of potentially "accidently" did to your kids.
Lord I hope I'm wrong but I'd so be talking to these kids one on one... making sure there was no accidental anything. :getyou

[msmom79]

i hope you guys dont get mad at me-but i cannot express to all of you enough-hard enough-loud enough-to never ,ever let your babies be around anyone who is a known molester-or rapist-i cant explain the hurt and the pain it has caused in my life-i have memories that still kill me to this day! i cry,when i see babies hurt,and young ladies and young men too-yes ladies and gents-woman do this crap too-keep your babies as close to you as possible,cause sometimes even our friends are perv's.

[diana_circe]

Yes I see what everyone is saying. My point was, the DH and the friend dont have to totally stop being friends. Maybe the DH can go to the friends house instead of vice versa.
I do like to see the good in people, and anybody can change. My DH 's ex wife spent years being a druggie. Now that the kids are grown, she has changed. She now lives with my stepdaughter and is helping take care of the grandkids ( stepdaughter is preg with baby #4) and is trying to make up for not being there. I know thats not the same as child molestation. And of course priority #1 is your children. And of course its your decision.. I just think maybe with the right circumstances, and your kids either not around him...and of course letting the kids know that the friends is a molester..

Then again.. its easier for me to speak not being in Diana's position...
I wish you luck and damn, that would suck to find out if it was one of my friends.

I don't know that I was actually looking for advise, but sharing an extremely troubling situation for us someplace I knew I could share.

for the record, dh knows there is no way he can be friends with this guy any more. Not only does he feel he can't associate with a person that could do that to a child, we are now catching ourselves looking back at his every action and reaction, hoping beyond hope our kids have been up front with us and that he never had any opportunity.

When we first started having him come around our youngest son was the same age as the child he molested. It was a boy he molested, not that that fact matters, I don't want him around any child of any sex.

My issue is now also with his gf. The girl is insisting they have kids and keeps throwing him into situations where he is around young kids. We will miss the companionship of having a couple to hang out with, but I don't need a friend that bad...

[Urban Cowgirl]

I always thought that once someone was convicted that they were allowed to be around children?? Am I wrong?

Why in the hell would teh gf want to have a child with him....kinda like dangling a bone under a dogs nose isn't it?

[diana_circe]

UC, that is our take on it. I know for a while he wasn't allowed to be around children, that was several years ago. But I guess once he got done with the therapy that was done? Or maybe because of the age of the child his restrictions were for children of a certain age? I honestly have no idea. I do know that we are kicking ourselves for not listening to that inner voice that said "hey, if his crime was between a 19-20yo guy and a 15 yo girl why would he have to stay away from young kids..." There were a few red flags, but since he wasn't hanging around us any more we ignored them, I suppose. I don't have an excuse for that really.

[Jolie Rouge]

Don't beat yourself up. You expected the best of someone instead of the worse ... that speaks well of you and your DH. You acted as soon as you had ALL of the relevant information instead of assuming the worse of someone ... and again that speaks highly of you and your DH. I wish you lived down near here, I'd be honored to have you hang with us ;)

Do you and DH belong to any groups - right now all our "grown up friends" are all Scouting related ... maybe that would be an avenue for you as well. We all have kids in the same age ranges, and similar interests.

:hug :kiss :flowers:

[diana_circe]

Well, my dh is generally antisocial. Its so rare that he actually find a guy he doesn't think is a total idiot. You know how it goes, he doesn't like how he treats his wife and/or kids, or he thinks the guy is whipped, or he drinks too much, or he's too goody-goody. Just every once in a while he meets a guy that he just clicks with and its such a bummer that this guy was who he was.

I think we are trying not to beat ourselves up over it, but we are always so suspicious of people's intentions when it comes to our kids. I can't tell you how many people in our small village set off the warning bells. And yes, we have checked the sex offenders list, and do so on a regular basis. But we only check locallly, never thought to check our friends against the registry.

Unfortunately, we are not joiners. Tay is in GS, but none of the others are part of any real group and with me having school several nights a week and Mike just not a real go-out-and-meet-em kinda guy the options are limited.

[MistyWolf]

I am with Jolie on this one .. don't beat yourself up. I know it's hard, you befriended someone, trusted them and they proved to be someone you wouldn't have trusted or befriended if you'd had known.

You did the right thing by breaking the friendship. It will hurt for a bit because you were friends, but in the long run, and as you know, everyone is better off.

[Njean31]

i can not even believe there is any question as to what needs to be done. men or women who are sexually aroused by children can NOT be rehabilitated. i wish people would wake up and get this. they don't deserve a second chance. they deserve to be castrated and imprisoned or exiled.

[MistyWolf]

I don't think she is questioning what needs to be done, I think OP was more or less needing to talk to ppl about this. Trying to get input and get some of what she is feeling and going through off her chest. I am sure Diana is going through all kinds of emotions right now and just needed to bend our ears ;)

[Jolie Rouge]

I don't think she is questioning what needs to be done, I think OP was more or less needing to talk to ppl about this. Trying to get input and get some of what she is feeling and going through off her chest. I am sure Diana is going through all kinds of emotions right now and just needed to bend our ears

:yeah:

That's what friends are for ...

[fleabones3]

Diana, my DH is very very very antisocial too. I know what you mean about your DH finding that one person he clicks with. Unfortunately the last 2 he has found are drunks, which now means my DH drinks more than he has the first 10 yrs we were married. Fortunately he isnt a " drunk" ( yet) but still. With hubbies like ours, its not so easy to go out and find friends or bring them home. DH has this one good friend.. I mostly like his wife, but my DH hates her because she "controls' him and will jump his crap. I say its because he lies to her about where he is at and how much he drinks...anyways..off topic.
I am sorry you guys are going thru this.. the fear of did he do something, would he have, etc etc. Don't blame yourself. You didnt purposely put yourselves or kids in a situation where you should have known better. Prayers are with you guys

[justme23]

UC, that is our take on it. I know for a while he wasn't allowed to be around children, that was several years ago. But I guess once he got done with the therapy that was done? Or maybe because of the age of the child his restrictions were for children of a certain age? I honestly have no idea. I do know that we are kicking ourselves for not listening to that inner voice that said "hey, if his crime was between a 19-20yo guy and a 15 yo girl why would he have to stay away from young kids..." There were a few red flags, but since he wasn't hanging around us any more we ignored them, I suppose. I don't have an excuse for that really.

Because the punishment is usually based on the level and not the actual crime. Or atleast, it is here. I have a cousin who is a sex offender (he touched the breast of his stepdaughter) and part of his requirements were that he was never allowed to be alone w/ children... not that he couldn't be around them. What I don't get is how he is just a level 3 when this was a 5 year old child. Or maybe I have it backwards and the higher the # the worse the offender... but I guess I thought level 1 was the worst.

Either way... the more I think of this, the more I agree that there isn't a way to be friends w/ him. At first I was thinking of my cousin and how we have responded to his crime... but then I was thinking of this guy my husband used to work w/ that molested a very young child... hubby let him in our home and I hated that... I refuse to even acknowledge him and I don't even have kids... hubby says I am not being forgiving... but it's gross that grown men find interest in kids... I don't need to be forgiving!

[diana_circe]

Yeah, level 3 is high risk to reoffend.

I don't think it has anything to do with being forgiving justme. At least not for me. I have nothing to forgive him for, but if it had been one of my kids there's no way in hell I'd be forgiving. Its not my forgiveness he needs, its the forgiveness of that child and his family. Whether or not he is forgiven, that doesn't mean I have to associate with someone who was able to do that to a child.

[justme23]

...

[MistyWolf]

:yeah:

That's what friends are for ...

Exactly!

[Quaker_Parrots]

I think you are making the right decision for the welfare of your children. Read the following news story and comments. Like one poster commented, it is not a matter of IF the person will commit these acts again, but WHEN.

http://www.wzzm13.com/news/news_story.aspx?storyid=115524&catid=14