Laura Bush praises Obama, bemoans excessive partisanship

[hesnothere]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html?eref=rss_politics


...

The typically reserved former first lady defended Obama's decision to deliver a back-to-school speech to students, putting her at odds with many conservatives afraid that the president will use the opportunity to advance his political agenda.

"I think he is [doing a good job]," Bush said when asked to assess Obama's job performance. "I think he has got a lot on his plate, and he has tackled a lot to start with, and that has probably made it more difficult."

...

Referencing the uproar over Obama's address to schoolchildren, which will be aired nationwide Tuesday, Laura Bush said it's "really important for everyone to respect the president of the United States."

Bush didn't completely dismiss the concerns of some conservatives but noted that controversial Education Department plans recommending that students draft letters discussing what they can do to help Obama had been changed.

"I think there is a place for the president ... to talk to schoolchildren and encourage" them, she said. Parents should follow his example and "encourage their own children to stay in school and to study hard and to try to achieve the dream that they have."

[candygirl]

In School Speech ,Obama says Education key to Country's Future



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The White House released the text Monday of a controversial back-to-school speech to students from President Obama.


The uproar over President Obama's back-to-school speech led the White House to release the transcript Monday.

Many conservatives have expressed a fear that the address would be used to push a partisan political agenda. In the text of the speech, however, Obama avoids any mention of controversial political initiatives. He repeatedly urges students to work hard and stay in school.

"No matter what you want to do with your life, I guarantee that you'll need an education to do it," he says.

"This isn't just important for your own life and your own future. What you make of your education will decide nothing less than the future of this country."

The text of the 18-minute speech was posted on the White House Web site so people can read it before its scheduled Internet broadcast to schoolchildren Tuesday.

Some of the president's critics have been adamantly opposed to the idea of an address by Obama to children.

"The president's speeches tend to be [about] what's wrong with the country and what can we do to fix it," said Bill Hogsett, a parent from Dallas, Texas.

"I believe this is the greatest country on Earth, and I try to teach that to my children. ... I don't want them hearing that there's a fundamental flaw with the country and the kids need to go forward to fix it."

Hogsett, who spoke Monday shortly before Obama's remarks were released, said he wanted to read the speech before making a final judgment.

Amy Veasley, another parent from the Dallas area, said she was surprised by the controversy.

"The president of our country wants to call our students to action. I'm not sure why parents wouldn't want their students to hear out the leader of our country," she said.

A Baltimore, Maryland, teacher who asked not to be identified bemoaned the fact that the country has "become so polarized that we believe that our president is an enemy and not our leader."

During Bush's presidency, she said, "whether I disagreed or not, I still saw him as a leader."

On Sunday, Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said that parents who are threatening to keep their children home Tuesday to avoid Obama's speech were being "silly."

Appearing on the CBS program "Face the Nation," Duncan emphasized that it is up to school officials whether to include the speech in the day's activities and that the message of the speech is simply to encourage children to finish school.

"That's just silly," he said of anyone planning to have their kids stay home because of the speech. "They can go to school. They can not watch."

The speech is about "the president challenging young people," Duncan asserted.

Some school administrators have decided to show the president's speech, but others will not. Watch CNN's Ed Henry talk about school speech uproar »

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, a possible contender for the GOP's 2012 presidential nomination, said Sunday that Obama's speech would disrupt an already-hectic first day of school for many students.

"I think there's concerns about the disruption," he said on CNN's "State of the Union," calling the scheduling of the speech a "little ham-fisted" by the White House. Watch school reject Obama's speech on education »

"There [are] also concerns about is this going to be done in an appropriate manner. I trust and hope that the White House will have a content that is not political and they're not using the public school infrastructure for that purpose."

Duncan, however, noted Obama's speech is not unprecedented. President George H.W. Bush delivered a nationally televised speech to students from a Washington school in fall 1991, encouraging them to say no to drugs and work hard.

In November 1988, President Reagan delivered more politically charged remarks that were made available to students nationwide. Among other things, Reagan called taxes "such a penalty on people that there's no incentive for them to prosper ... because they have to give so much to the government.

Some of the controversy over Obama's speech involved a proposed lesson plan created by the Education Department to accompany the address. An initial version of the plan recommended that students draft letters to themselves discussing "what they can do to help the president."

The letters "would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate later date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals," the plan stated.

After pressure from conservatives, the White House distributed a revised version encouraging students to write letters about how they can "achieve their short-term and long-term education goals."

Duncan said Sunday that the passage was poorly worded.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich told "Fox News Sunday" that Obama's speech is a good idea if the message is a positive one about completing school.

"It is good to have the president of the United States say to young people across America, 'Stay in school, study, and do your homework,' " Gingrich said.

Florida Republican Party Chairman Jim Greer last week accused Obama of trying to "indoctrinate America's children to his socialist agenda."



After reading the text, he said, "My kids will be watching the president's speech, as I hope all kids will."

[lisarae]

We got a letter from school the other day telling us about it today at noon, and if we wanted out kids to opt out we had sign the paper and send it back, and they would find something else for the kids to do. I think this may be sending the wrong information to our kids. Whether you like or dislike what the president is standing for, you do need to teach kids respect for our President. My kids are 5 and 9, and they are going to watch. Its up to my dh and I to tell them what we believe and why we believe it.

[freeby4me]

Good for her! I think she is the right person on the "other side" to stand up and say this seeings how she taught children and was (I cant think of the words so work with me) forward during her Husbands presidency with the kids. Doing stuff for kids, kwim.

[Jolie Rouge]

Why My Kid Will Be In School Sept. 8
Spewed by Venomous Kate in Politics Bite

If you’ve been online at all today you’ve no doubt read about Obama’s upcoming nationwide speech to schoolchildren on September 8. Maybe you’ve even read that Malkin and others are getting their panties in a wad over it, with some even calling to keep your kids home rather than subjecting them to the speech. My kid will be there, and I’m not bothered by that fact at all.

I don’t have a problem with a U.S. President telling my kid to study hard in school. Do I trust him, as SusanHW asked me on Twitter today when I’d said I didn’t care about the speech? Oh hell to the no.

But, see, I already know how little children work: they’ve been indoctrinated for years to idolize the office of the President and until they’re well into their teens it’s difficult for many to separate the office from the man. I also know that kids — and this time I include teens — are insanely curious about anything that Mommy or Daddy is against. Keep a kid home so they don’t listen to Obama then send him to school the next day when all of his little friends are hero-worshiping the guy, and what do you get? A future Democrat.

Oh, I’m fully aware that even if Obama keeps his speech specifically on-point about the importance of a good education, as Malkin points out “Obama zealot teachers like this one across the country will do all the extra-curricular bullying and haranguing for him.”

Living here in a rather conservative county in Kansas, I have the luxury of knowing there aren’t a ton of rabidly liberal, crap-spewing teachers like that one. I also know that, if one of my son’s teachers were to start proselytizing like that, I wouldn’t be the only parent shouting in the school office the next day. (But I might be the meanest.)

Frankly, I like to pick my battles carefully. Those of us in the GOP need to realize that *****ing about every little thing the Dems do doesn’t make us sound informed or even draw attention to our primary issues; it just makes us sound *****y.

Besides which, I know from experience that my boy is going to tune out any speech lasting longer than 30 seconds in favor of poking the little kid sitting next to him.

UPDATE: The White House has backed off of the wording in the teaching materials which was calling for students to “write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president”. Instead, the call is for students to write to themselves about their short- and long-term educational goals, with teachers collecting and holding the letters then giving them back to the children at a later date so they can see whether they’re keeping in track with the goals they set for themselves.

http://www.electricvenom.com/politics-bite/why-my-kid-will-be-in-school-sept-8/


You can see the complete section of lesson plans specifically for “Obama’s Address to Students Across America” to Schools for grades pre-K to 6 http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/prek-6.pdf and for grades 7 to 12 http://www.ed.gov/teachers/how/lessons/7-12.pdf at the links.


You can also read more about all this where it has already been posted http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/626453-us-census-sesame-street-3.html including a text of the prepared speech or go to http://www.whitehouse.gov/MediaResources/PreparedSchoolRemarks/

[Jolie Rouge]

Laura Bush praises Obama, bemoans excessive partisanship
Laura Bush sits down with CNN during U.N. meeting in Paris, France
updated 6:21 p.m. EDT, Mon September 7, 2009

PARIS, France (CNN) -- Former first lady Laura Bush praised the performance of her husband's successor Monday, breaking with many Republicans in telling CNN that she thinks President Obama is doing a good job under tough circumstances.


Former first lady Laura Bush defended President Obama's decision to address the nation's schoolchildren.

She also criticized Washington's sharp political divide during an interview covering a range of topics including her thoughts on first lady Michelle Obama, former Vice President Dick Cheney, the situation in Afghanistan and Myanmar, and life after eight tumultuous years in the White House.

Bush sat down with CNN on Monday during a United Nations meeting in Paris, France, where she was promoting global literacy, a cause she trumpeted during her husband's administration.

The typically reserved former first lady defended Obama's decision to deliver a back-to-school speech to students, putting her at odds with many conservatives afraid that the president will use the opportunity to advance his political agenda.

"I think he is [doing a good job]," Bush said when asked to assess Obama's job performance. "I think he has got a lot on his plate, and he has tackled a lot to start with, and that has probably made it more difficult."

Michelle Obama is also "doing great," she said, in part by turning the White House into a comfortable home for her family. Watch more of the interview » http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html?eref=rss_politics#cnnSTCVideo

Referencing the uproar over Obama's address to schoolchildren, which will be aired nationwide Tuesday, Laura Bush said it's "really important for everyone to respect the president of the United States."

Bush didn't completely dismiss the concerns of some conservatives but noted that controversial Education Department plans recommending that students draft letters discussing what they can do to help Obama had been changed.

"I think there is a place for the president ... to talk to schoolchildren and encourage" them, she said. Parents should follow his example and "encourage their own children to stay in school and to study hard and to try to achieve the dream that they have."

Bush indicated that she didn't think it was fair for Obama to be labeled a "socialist" by critics and expressed her disappointment with the intensely polarized nature of contemporary American politics.

Part of the reason for the polarization, she said, was the increase in the number of congressional districts dominated by either strongly conservative or liberal voters.

"We've seen that for the last eight years, certainly, and we're still seeing it," she said. "That's just a fact of life."

Bush conceded that after her husband was elected president, he was unable to replicate his success as governor of Texas in reaching across the aisle to Democrats.

"He was disappointed that that was not the way it worked out in Washington," she said. "I'm sure President Obama didn't expect it to be that way [either]. ... All of us need to do what we can to come together on issues."

Despite her husband's disappointment, he is "doing very well," she said. Both of them are now working on their memoirs, she noted.

Though the former first lady criticized the excessive partisanship of Washington, she expressed gratitude for Cheney's decision to vocally defend her husband's performance.

Cheney has been outspoken in his defense of the Bush administration's national security record, which has been sharply criticized on, among other things, questions relating to the detention and interrogation of terrorist suspects.

"I think that Vice President Cheney has every right to speak out, and I appreciate that he is defending" the administration, Bush said. "I think that is important. I think there is a place for that."

Bush also said it doesn't bother her husband that Cheney's "out there being critical."

The former first lady said her husband still speaks with Cheney occasionally. Multiple sources have indicated that the two men parted ways on several issues in the last years of their administration, including Bush's refusal to offer a pardon for former top Cheney aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby.

Libby was convicted on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to investigators looking into the leak that resulted in the exposure of CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson.

Though Bush expressed confidence that her husband will ultimately be remembered as "somebody who stood for freedom and who stood for the security of our country," she admitted that she's worried about the current situation in Afghanistan.

"I'm very concerned, of course," she said.

"All of us are concerned, and everybody, as they look at Afghanistan from around the world, really hope and want to [do] whatever they can to help the government stabilize, to see that the elections were fair."

Bush said she hoped people "will redouble their efforts" to help the country fend off Taliban and al Qaeda extremists.

She also repeated her outspoken criticism of the government of Myanmar, also known by its former name of Burma, which has come under fire for imprisoning pro-democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi.

"She's always been held under house arrest [because] they're afraid of her popularity. They think that undermines their regime," Bush said.

"I hope that they'll see what she really wants. ... She wants [the nation to have] a peaceful transition to a democracy and to have the chance for Burma to really build itself [into] a very wealthy and educated nation."

After her husband's eight controversial years in the White House, what does Bush have to say to critics who believe he had a negative, destructive influence in the world?


"I would say that that's absolutely not right," Bush said.

"I don't think they have either the right view of him or what his responsibilities are and were as president of the United States."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/07/laura.bush/index.html?eref=rss_politics

[NasCat]

Good Lord

[SHELBYDOG]

:drama

[speedygirl]

Living here in a rather conservative county in Kansas, I have the luxury of knowing there aren’t a ton of rabidly liberal, crap-spewing teachers like that one. I also know that, if one of my son’s teachers were to start proselytizing like that, I wouldn’t be the only parent shouting in the school office the next day. (But I might be the meanest.)


Living here in a rather liberal area, I have the luxury of knowing that our children receive one of the best educations in the country and is consistantly ranked at #1 or 2 in the nation. The test scores are among the highest in the nation and in some cases the world. They are taught by teachers that teach the facts and not liberal or conservative views. Children are allowed to form an objective opinion instead of a slanted one. My kids have never had a teacher try to convert their views. It's all about the academics.
All of this so called proselytizing that's supposed to be occuring is just an obviously uninformed person who's never been to a liberal state and seen their education system in action. She's apparently just crowing about BS that she's been spoon fed and "thinks" that's what goes on.

ETA; I always liked Laura Bush. I'm glad that she has a spine.

[Bahet]

Living here in Europe where my kids go to DoD schools with some of the best education in the world they didn't have an option about watching it. If they were in school they watched it. No one took their kids out of school to the best of my knowledge. 90+% of the kids are military brats. Their parents may not agree with Obama but they respect that he's their boss and the President of our country.

It just amazes me that the very same people who ranted and raved that Dems needed to respect Bush because he was our President even after the fiasco of Katrina, billions in missing money, no bid contracts, illegal wire tapping, and lying to the American people to get us to support a war against a country that never attacked us thereby wasting thousands of lives are the very same people who have absolutely no respect for Obama who hasn't done anything even remotely as bad. It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

Good for Laura Bush though. I can't stand her husband but she's a classy lady.

[ElleGee]

My son's school did not show the speech. However since I saw it and I thought it was a very positive meaningful speech with good lessons to be learned I am going to show my son it after dinner....

[SHELBYDOG]

Living here in Europe where my kids go to DoD schools with some of the best education in the world they didn't have an option about watching it. If they were in school they watched it. No one took their kids out of school to the best of my knowledge. 90+% of the kids are military brats. Their parents may not agree with Obama but they respect that he's their boss and the President of our country.

It just amazes me that the very same people who ranted and raved that Dems needed to respect Bush because he was our President even after the fiasco of Katrina, billions in missing money, no bid contracts, illegal wire tapping, and lying to the American people to get us to support a war against a country that never attacked us thereby wasting thousands of lives are the very same people who have absolutely no respect for Obama who hasn't done anything even remotely as bad. It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

Good for Laura Bush though. I can't stand her husband but she's a classy lady.

Thank you, thank you, thankyou! You said exactly everything I've felt for a very long time now! :adore::adore::adore:

[SHELBYDOG]

Has there always been an option in school to show/watch a presidents speech or not, or is this something new?

[nightrider127]

Has there always been an option in school to show/watch a presidents speech or not, or is this something new?


Not that I know of Shelby. You would think, during these bad times, that people would have more to worry about than a president making a speech to school children. Sure, you can encourage your children, as you should. But a little back up never hurt anything. Everone on this board knowes that I am not an Obama supporter, didn't like the guy who ran against him either so I wrote in Spuds name but I would have had no problem what so ever with my child listening to the speech.

As for Laura Bush, I have always liked her. She came accross as a good wife and mother, a wonderful human being.

[littlebuggy]

Back in '91 Bush Sr. gave a speech to school kids and dems actually did investigations into it. They were mad that money was spent for him to address school children. That seems a bit over the top as well. Dems will always complain about what a rep president does, and vice versa.

I must say I am pretty sick of all the black vs white stuff. Why is it if people don't agree with him it's because he's black?

[freeby4me]

Back in '91 Bush Sr. gave a speech to school kids and dems actually did investigations into it. They were mad that money was spent for him to address school children. That seems a bit over the top as well. Dems will always complain about what a rep president does, and vice versa.

I must say I am pretty sick of all the black vs white stuff. Why is it if people don't agree with him it's because he's black?

I agree, it does seem a tit for tat thing, but it seems to be more extreme lately.

[gmyers]

I don't think it was the speech as much as the activities he gave the teachers to give to their students that some objected too.

[SHELBYDOG]

Not that I know of Shelby. You would think, during these bad times, that people would have more to worry about than a president making a speech to school children. Sure, you can encourage your children, as you should. But a little back up never hurt anything. Everone on this board knowes that I am not an Obama supporter, didn't like the guy who ran against him either so I wrote in Spuds name but I would have had no problem what so ever with my child listening to the speech.

As for Laura Bush, I have always liked her. She came accross as a good wife and mother, a wonderful human being.

I wasn't sure, I don't have kids so I'm not up to date on what goes on in the classrooms these days.

I've been out of school 28yrs & I recall watching a few differant president speeches in high school. Our teachers brought their own TV's in & it was a much welcomed event, it was a break from the same ol boring classroom teachings.

I just don't get it these days, to much drama & contraversy over what is just plain & simple respect for your POTUS no matter who is POTUS!

:shrug

[ilovecats]

Has there always been an option in school to show/watch a presidents speech or not, or is this something new?


There was no option offered to me for my highschooler.Of course,I could have taken it upon myself to keep her home if I wanted.

[SHELBYDOG]

There was no option offered to me for my highschooler.Of course,I could have taken it upon myself to keep her home if I wanted.

I don't understand why parents today would keep their child home to stop them from watching the POTUS back to school speech.....
This is why kids are so messed up, it all starts with the parents! :duck

[pepperpot]

Referencing the uproar over Obama's address to schoolchildren, which will be aired nationwide Tuesday, Laura Bush said it's "really important for everyone to respect the president of the United States."

Bush didn't completely dismiss the concerns of some conservatives but noted that controversial Education Department plans recommending that students draft letters discussing what they can do to help Obama had been changed.

"I think there is a place for the president ... to talk to schoolchildren and encourage" them, she said. Parents should follow his example and "encourage their own children to stay in school and to study hard and to try to achieve the dream that they have."
I can respect people that I don't agree with, I can and do. I teach my children the same.

However, I do note, that Mrs. Bush acknowledged the concerns over the content of the original agenda/program.

I have no problem with anyone encouraging my children to educate themselves, better themselves, their neighbor and their country.

Had he worded the 'assignment' to draft a letter saying how they would try to improve themselves, their neighbor and the country......perhaps draft a letter telling him some of their concerns and perhaps suggestions on what we all or he can do....yada, yada....I think you get the idea.

However, he is in a very influential position especially to the younger generation. It should not have been what they can do to help him, but what that they can do to help others and themselves, not his agenda.

Words of encouragement for children is always welcomed, encouraging children to help with a personal agenda (which not everyone is in agreement upon) is a horse of a different color. Don't tell my children to help your agenda, ask and encourage my children to help themselves, others and their country. Obama is a servant, not a dictator....or at least that is what it's supposed to be.

[SHELBYDOG]

Obama is a servant, not a dictator....or at least that is what it's supposed to be.

Whatever, he's the POTUS whether you like that term or not. "Servant" - wow is all I can say to you.
I'll stick to my original thought TY.....

[littlebuggy]

That's what all people who are in a political position are called....servant to the people. They are elected by us to speak on our behalf...working for us. I've heard many senator, congressmen, etc. refer to themselves using that term. Please lets stop looking for a race fight where there is none.

[dangerousfem]

I too am completely sick and tired of being told that if I disagree with his ideas its because he is black... no.. its because he believes and stands for things I do not... I could care less if he was freaking purple.. stop trying to make everything about race...

[SHELBYDOG]

He's not my servant, he's my POTUS & quit dictating to me that I'm looking for a race fight, I am not!
I have a right to my opinion & I don't refer to anyone as my servant, that's my right after being a retired bartender/waitress for 25+ years, you might call it a pet peeve. Alot of people look down at servers, unless you've been there & done that, you wouldn't understand!

[dangerousfem]

I'm sorry you take offense to the term servant.. but that is what politicians are. Servants of the people.. they have been called that for many years.. nothing to do with color or class of people.

and I have been there.. done that... and don't take offense to the word. That was my job.. to serve.. that is his job...

[gmyers]

My husband says he seems to be still campaigning. And some of those students will be eligible to vote in four years I imagine. I think thats why the what can I do to help the president letter. I don't see anything wrong with his speech.

[SHELBYDOG]

Obama's back-to-school speech inspires some kids



By KATHY MATHESON and MONICA RHOR, Associated Press Writers Kathy Matheson And Monica Rhor, Associated Press Writers – 53 mins ago
PHILADELPHIA – On the very first day of the school year, 12-year-old Mileena Rodriguez was reminded by President Barack Obama himself that hard work can take you places.Mileena listened to Obama's plea to study hard and stay in school Tuesday, watching along with several of her classmates at Thurgood Marshall Elementary School and students across the country. For all the hubbub among adults over the back-to-school speech, many youngsters took the president's message to heart.

"He said that we're the future, and he's right," said Mileena, who wants to be a forensic scientist. "That's a president telling you, `I care about you getting your education.' Just imagine what kids like us can do if we actually listen."

Schoolchildren from coast to coast watched on classroom TVs and computer screens. Others did not hear the message at all, either because their parents pulled from them from class or their schools refused to carry the speech over complaints from conservative groups and others that it smacked of political indoctrination.

In his speech, which aired on C-SPAN and the White House Web site, Obama used examples from his own life to urge students to study hard. He told them to stop chasing dreams of being athletes or reality TV stars.

"The truth is, being successful is hard. You won't love every subject you study. You won't click with every teacher. Not every homework assignment will seem completely relevant to your life right this minute. And you won't necessarily succeed at everything the first time you try," Obama said.

Other presidents, including Republicans Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, delivered similar speeches to students, but some conservatives accused Obama of trying to promote his policies, and they urged schools and parents to boycott the address. Florida Republican Party chairman Jim Greer initially called the speech an attempt to "spread President Obama's socialist ideology."

The Department of Education was also criticized for proposed lesson plans distributed to accompany the speech, including a section — later changed — that asked students to write about how they could help the president.

Schools were not required to show the speech, and the White House posted an advance transcript on its Web site on Monday. After they got a look at the text, many critics, including Greer, backed off, and some schools agreed to show the speech after all.

Still, others were glad they kept their kids out of class.

"They don't need to be told by the president what their responsibilities are. It's the parents' responsibility to teach them that, not the government," said Ryan Christensen, a carpet cleaner who asked that his 10-year-old daughter be pulled from a fifth-grade class watching the speech in Caldwell, Idaho.

In Marietta, Ga., the elementary school that Mollie Cushing's two daughters attend chose not to air the president's address. And that was just fine with Cushing.

"We're not really happy with the way the country is right now, so I don't have real warm fuzzies about the whole thing," said Cushing, a stay-at-home mom and Republican. "I don't think there's going to be anything he will touch on that will be important."

The uproar followed Obama to Wakefield High School in Arlington, Va., where he delivered the speech. A small band of protesters greeted his motorcade when it arrived at the school outside the nation's capital. One carried a sign reading: "Mr. President, stay away from our kids."

Karen Miller, a former PTA official and a longtime education activist in the Houston area, said she initially had concerns about the speech and accompanying lesson plans. "Whenever a political figure goes to a public school, one has to be very cautious," she said.

After hearing the speech, however, Miller said she found it inspiring.

"The message he gave to children was so appropriate, that you shape your destiny no matter the hand you're dealt," she said. "The message was absolutely on target. I had chills."

All schools in the 163,000-student Philadelphia district were encouraged to show the speech, which coincided with the first day of school.

Missouri Lt. Governor Peter Kinder, a Republican, had originally criticized the speech and its suggested lesson plans as "steps never before seen by any presidency in the realm of government intervention." But he said his concerns eased after some of the lesson plans were changed.

"It was perfectly innocuous and a praiseworthy message," he said Tuesday.

At Thomas Jefferson High School in Auburn, Wash., a racially and economically diverse district outside Seattle, sophomores listened attentively to the address. Fifteen-year-old Ariana Steele said the message connected with her.

"When you see someone of such power saying what your parents say or your teachers have said, like all your life, it really makes it more powerful to you and it really makes you want to try more," she said.

And William Geist, a San Francisco fifth-grader who likes to sleep late, listened closely to Obama's story of studying with his mother at 4:30 a.m.

"Now since I heard this speech, I'm like, `Man, I've got to get up early in the morning. I've got to get ready for school. I've got to do this,'" William said.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090909/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_school_speech


Still, others were glad they kept their kids out of class.

"They don't need to be told by the president what their responsibilities are. It's the parents' responsibility to teach them that, not the government,"



And we see what kind of job the parents do with responsibilty teachings, there's ALOT of disrespectful little brats that walk among us.......

[pepperpot]

Whatever, he's the POTUS whether you like that term or not. "Servant" - wow is all I can say to you.
I'll stick to my original thought TY.....

By the same token, I can say "WOW" to you....


public servant
n.
A person who holds a government position by election or appointment.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
public servant
Noun
1. an elected or appointed holder of a public office
2. Austral & NZ a civil servant
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. public servant - someone who holds a government position (either by election or appointment)
election - a vote to select the winner of a position or political office; "the results of the election will be announced tonight"
employee - a worker who is hired to perform a job
caseworker, social worker, welfare worker - someone employed to provide social services (especially to the disadvantaged)


And as I used the term "servant".....


Obama is a servant, not a dictator....or at least that is what it's supposed to be.

...it was in contrast to "Dictator" not "Master".......

So "wow" to you............

Obama is a public servant....like the term or not, it is not racially derogatory nor a position with negative connotations........"wow". :rolleyes:

[ilovecats]

Back in '91 Bush Sr. gave a speech to school kids and dems actually did investigations into it. They were mad that money was spent for him to address school children. That seems a bit over the top as well. Dems will always complain about what a rep president does, and vice versa.

I must say I am pretty sick of all the black vs white stuff. Why is it if people don't agree with him it's because he's black?


That's what all people who are in a political position are called....servant to the people. They are elected by us to speak on our behalf...working for us. I've heard many senator, congressmen, etc. refer to themselves using that term. Please lets stop looking for a race fight where there is none.


I too am completely sick and tired of being told that if I disagree with his ideas its because he is black... no.. its because he believes and stands for things I do not... I could care less if he was freaking purple.. stop trying to make everything about race...


I'm sorry you take offense to the term servant.. but that is what politicians are. Servants of the people.. they have been called that for many years.. nothing to do with color or class of people.

and I have been there.. done that... and don't take offense to the word. That was my job.. to serve.. that is his job...


By the same token, I can say "WOW" to you....



And as I used the term "servant".....



...it was in contrast to "Dictator" not "Master".......

So "wow" to you............

Obama is a public servant....like the term or not, it is not racially derogatory nor a position with negative connotations........"wow". :rolleyes:

Only reference to race I can find in this thread is by the very people screaming:"not racist!"?

[pepperpot]

Only reference to race I can find in this thread is by the very people screaming:"not racist!"?

Pay attention............

Obama is a public servant....like the term or not, it is not racially derogatory nor a position with negative connotations........"wow".

If Shelby has personal issues with the word "servant" they are her issues and should not be projected onto others. The term used was perfectly appropriate and accepted in society. Her "wow" statement could be taken as racially negative and/or an elitist negative, neither of which was implied nor appreciated.

Others jumped in to obviously enlighten her to a term used for hundreds of years which does not have negative connotations.

Bottom line, if you will throw stones, make sure you're not in a glass house.

[SHELBYDOG]

You can wow me all you want Pepper, if it makes you feel better than I'm happy.



A Baltimore, Maryland, teacher who asked not to be identified bemoaned the fact that the country has "become so polarized that we believe that our president is an enemy and not our leader."


It's one thing to put fear into adults, but it's not stopping there, people are actually buying what the conservatives are selling on fearing Obama & to really believe that the POTUS is going to harm children with a speech is just plain sick.
Sorry, way to much was made of this & Obama's speech was anything but harmful to the young.
Asking the kids to help the POTUS I don't think is harmful or wrong, it's no differant than asking your neighbor to help you, but maybe that's why so many young people are so unwilling to work for their paycheck these days or show any respect.
Like I said earlier it starts with the parents.....

[dangerousfem]

Only reference to race I can find in this thread is by the very people screaming:"not racist!"?

then you didn't read it carefully..

[SHELBYDOG]

Pay attention............


If Shelby has personal issues with the word "servant" they are her issues and should not be projected onto others. The term used was perfectly appropriate and accepted in society. Her "wow" statement could be taken as racially negative and/or an elitist negative, neither of which was implied nor appreciated.

Others jumped in to obviously enlighten her to a term used for hundreds of years which does not have negative connotations.

Bottom line, if you will throw stones, make sure you're not in a glass house.

Umm, you can direct your replies directly to me & not talk around me.
As far as not projecting personal issues onto others, you & others need to think about what your preaching here about not throwing stones if you live in a glass house.
You don't always cope with tricky situations all to well, but you don't see that.

[pepperpot]

You can wow me all you want Pepper, if it makes you feel better than I'm happy.



It's one thing to put fear into adults, but it's not stopping there, people are actually buying what the conservatives are selling on fearing Obama & to really believe that the POTUS is going to harm children with a speech is just plain sick.
Sorry, way to much was made of this & Obama's speech was anything but harmful to the young.
Asking the kids to help the POTUS I don't think is harmful or wrong, it's no differant than asking your neighbor to help you, but maybe that's why so many young people are so unwilling to work for their paycheck these days or show any respect.
Like I said earlier it starts with the parents.....

Sorry, but your ignorance of the term 'servant' and personal issues associated with it threw the 'wow' out there first.

As someone who is employed/elected to a position by adults, he should not be asking children to help him, but help themselves, their neighbors and their country. Perhaps you see that as semantics, but semantics matter.

As stated, I teach my children to show respect, I also teach them not to follow direction or beliefs that they do not believe in. The message, again, should be "Help yourselves, your neighbors and your country" which may or may not be the POTUS' agenda. Tell my kids to support those things (ideals)....not 'you' (POTUS/person).

[pepperpot]

Umm, you can direct your replies directly to me & not talk around me.
As far as not projecting personal issues onto others, you & others need to think about what your preaching here about not throwing stones if you live in a glass house.
You don't always cope with tricky situations all to well, but you don't see that.

Ummm, I did address the appropriate person and usually do (or try to).

I referenced you (Shelby) in that post because she was referencing you.

I'm sorry you fail to see your own projections.

ETA: and Cape Coral isn't always Sunny....:lol

[SHELBYDOG]

Sorry, but your ignorance of the term 'servant' and personal issues associated with it threw the 'wow' out there first.

As someone who is employed/elected to a position by adults, he should not be asking children to help him, but help themselves, their neighbors and their country. Perhaps you see that as semantics, but semantics matter.

As stated, I teach my children to show respect, I also teach them not to follow direction or beliefs that they do not believe in. The message, again, should be "Help yourselves, your neighbors and your country" which may or may not be the POTUS' agenda. Tell my kids to support those things (ideals)....not 'you' (POTUS/person).


Me wowing you was very offensive, but you referring to my knowledge as ignorance isn't.

Was I referring to your kids specifically, I don't think so.

Sorry, but I no longer have time to to respond to you any further from this point, so please leave me out of your conversations, don't question my replies anymore & please just move on away from me completely now......

[speedygirl]

Good God, can we not have another thread deteriorate into a race thing!?
What I think is cool about Laura Bush commenting on this is that she's an educator, she gets it.

[SHELBYDOG]

ETA: and Cape Coral isn't always Sunny....:lol

It is when I don't have to deal with you! :)

[pepperpot]

Me wowing you was very offensive, but you referring to my knowledge as ignorance isn't.

Was I referring to your kids specifically, I don't think so.

Sorry, but I no longer have time to to respond to you any further from this point, so please leave me out of your conversations, don't question my replies anymore & please just move on away from me completely now......


You brought it to a personal level. I responded.

My original response/post was to the OP/issue.

I can and will respond to any post I choose to, you can choose to put me on ignore or not. But I will defend myself when it is taken to a personal level, perhaps it's you who shouldn't reply to my posts.

[pepperpot]

It is when I don't have to deal with you! :)

Enjoy....that obviously was in response to your 'comment' on my siggy......care to stick to the OP?

[Bahet]

Back in '91 Bush Sr. gave a speech to school kids and dems actually did investigations into it. They were mad that money was spent for him to address school children. That seems a bit over the top as well. Dems will always complain about what a rep president does, and vice versa.
In '91 they used something like $26,000 of DOE money to hire an outside production company to produce the film. That's what some people got upset about. Department of Education money being spent on an outside production crew. Considering Obama gets flack if he spends taxpayer money on his own personal security I can only imagine the additional outrage if he had spent DOE money to hire a special producer.


I don't think it was the speech as much as the activities he gave the teachers to give to their students that some objected too.
He didn't give any activities to the teachers. The activities were suggestions made by the DoE, not Obama.


I can respect people that I don't agree with, I can and do. I teach my children the same.

However, I do note, that Mrs. Bush acknowledged the concerns over the content of the original agenda/program.

I have no problem with anyone encouraging my children to educate themselves, better themselves, their neighbor and their country.

Had he worded the 'assignment' to draft a letter saying how they would try to improve themselves, their neighbor and the country......perhaps draft a letter telling him some of their concerns and perhaps suggestions on what we all or he can do....yada, yada....I think you get the idea.

However, he is in a very influential position especially to the younger generation. It should not have been what they can do to help him, but what that they can do to help others and themselves, not his agenda.

Words of encouragement for children is always welcomed, encouraging children to help with a personal agenda (which not everyone is in agreement upon) is a horse of a different color. Don't tell my children to help your agenda, ask and encourage my children to help themselves, others and their country. Obama is a servant, not a dictator....or at least that is what it's supposed to be.
So then you were opposed to Bush's speech in '91 right? Especially the part where he said this:

"Let me leave you with a simple message: Every time you walk through that classroom door, make it your mission to get a good education. Don't do it just because your parents, or even the President, tells you. Do it for yourselves. Do it for your future. And while you're at it, help a little brother or sister to learn, or maybe even Mom or Dad. Let me know how you're doing. Write me a letter -- and I'm serious about this one - write me a letter about ways you can help us achieve our goals. I think you know the address."
Pres. George H.W. Bush Oct. 1, 1991 in a nationally televised address to students.


I too am completely sick and tired of being told that if I disagree with his ideas its because he is black... no.. its because he believes and stands for things I do not... I could care less if he was freaking purple.. stop trying to make everything about race...
He was giving a speech telling kids to stay in school and get an education. How can someone disagree with that?

[hesnothere]

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/04/us/financing-for-a-bush-speech-is-attacked.html


Mr. Bush's speech, which he delivered at Alice Deal Junior High School here, was carried live by the Cable News Network and stations of the Public Broadcasting Service. The White House hired Wetacom Inc., a production company with the local PBS station, WETA, to send in a crew for the telecast. Mr. Bush perched on a stool by a blackboard and read his speech from Teleprompters that were at the back of the classroom, out of the range of the three cameras.

The classroom was as well lighted as a television studio, and the cameras zoomed in on students and their teacher, Cynthia Mostoller, as Mr. Bush made a pitch for his education program.

Secretary Alexander had sent letters to all the nation's 110,000 elementary and secondary schools beforehand, urging them to let students watch the President's speech.

OMG, he used a teleprompter? The horror...

[gmyers]

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/04/us/financing-for-a-bush-speech-is-attacked.html



OMG, he used a teleprompter? The horror...

I'm curious about your avatar. Who is the man with Obama? I've been trying to figure out who he is.

[hesnothere]

''I can't understand for the life of me what's so great about being stupid,'' Bush said, according to news reports from the time. He told students to ''block out the kids who think it's not cool to be smart'' and ''work harder, learn more.''

OMG, he called kids stupid? The horror...

Actual quote:

When it comes to your own education, what I’m saying is take control. Don’t say school is boring and blame it on your teachers. Make your teachers work hard. Tell them you want a first-class education. Tell them that you’re here to learn. Block out the kids who think it’s not cool to be smart. I can’t understand for the life of me what’s so great about being stupid.

[hesnothere]

That glorious, lovely man is my husband-in-my-head - Bono.

2 weeks until U2 heaven for me. Going to see them on the 23rd and 24th, 2 days before my birthday.

[gmyers]

Thanks I've been trying to figure out who he was.

[pepperpot]

So then you were opposed to Bush's speech in '91 right? Especially the part where he said this:


I probably never even realized in 1991 that he gave an address to students.....that was 18 years ago, I didn't have children, wasn't much into politics and was probably more concerned with sowing some of my youthful oats. :lol

However, looking at the excerpt of the speech you provided, no I don't think I'd have a problem with that, especially since there was a very different social, political and economic climate at the time.



"Let me leave you with a simple message: Every time you walk through that classroom door, make it your mission to get a good education. Don't do it just because your parents, or even the President, tells you. Do it for yourselves. Do it for your future. And while you're at it, help a little brother or sister to learn, or maybe even Mom or Dad. Let me know how you're doing. Write me a letter -- and I'm serious about this one - write me a letter about ways you can help us achieve our goals. I think you know the address."
Pres. George H.W. Bush Oct. 1, 1991 in a nationally televised address to students.



I briefly searched but could not find much on the exact terminology used in the original draft that many were upset over. But, using the OP reference, it does just mention 'help Obama', not 'our goals' (or "our" anything)....but TBH one really can't compare these two as listed here, as Obama's seems to be a synopsis/overview and Bush's was his actual speech.



Bush didn't completely dismiss the concerns of some conservatives but noted that controversial Education Department plans recommending that students draft letters discussing what they can do to help Obama had been changed.




Just asking, was Bush's speech/address pumped into the classrooms (like Obama's) or was it televised to be viewed at home? I don't recall any Presidential speech/address being given/viewed in classrooms when I grew up (yes, technology was different then too, but we had tv's). How recent has this practice been? I honestly don't know. :shrug

[Bahet]

But it wasn't a very different climate. I graduated college in '91 and the economic climate of recession was much the same as now. Unemployment was nearly the same. We were even recently in a war with Iraq. Bush Sr asked kids to let him know how they could hep him. Yet when Obama does it it's a horrible, awful, no good, very bad thing.

[pepperpot]

But it wasn't a very different climate. I graduated college in '91 and the economic climate of recession was much the same as now. Unemployment was nearly the same. We were even recently in a war with Iraq. Bush Sr asked kids to let him know how they could hep him. Yet when Obama does it it's a horrible, awful, no good, very bad thing.

I recall 1991 as different from today's climate. Perhaps it is because my situation from then to now has changed as well....single vs married with kids. :shrug

I didn't feel the the economic squeeze nor such an 'intense' political climate at the time. I also was not so 'concerned' (or felt I had a need to be concerned) with the POTUS's agenda at the time. I trusted his intentions/agendas much more than Obama's, so obviously Obama will be scrutinized more.

If there's someone in 'power' (such as the POTUS) whom I do not trust, I will scrutinize whatever he is telling or suggesting to children/my children, etc.....I'm sure any parent in the same/similar situation would. If you didn't 'trust' the principal/teacher in your children's school....wouldn't you be observing and scrutinizing them too? and perhaps challenge them when something seems to 'cross the line'? :shrug

[candygirl]

**Whiners Hurt Good Message **

By Brian Hicks
The Post and Courier
Wednesday, September 9, 2009


On Tuesday, the president talked to schoolchildren across the nation about the merits of hard work, personal responsibility and staying in school.

He said they should not allow their personal problems to become excuses for doing poorly.

What a bunch of nanny-state, liberal mumbo ... wait a minute. That sounds almost like the stuff conservatives usually extoll.

But a lot of kids in the U.S. did not get to hear his message. You see, some nuts protested -- claimed that President Obama was trying to brainwash kids, indoctrinate them to a socialist agenda. Many schools wimped out and didn't show the address, for fear of riling the easily riled.

Funny thing is, if President Bush had made that very same speech, those whiners would have lauded it as a wonderful example of conservative principles, and called the president a role model.

That's American politics today -- perpetually divisive, disagreeable just to be disagreeable, and about as subtle as professional wrestling.

Except wrestling is much more sensible.

These folks -- along with people who say the president isn't American, and that wacky preacher who hopes Obama will die -- are not helping the conservative cause.


Politics or NASCAR?

Neal Thigpen, a Francis Marion University political science professor, calls this protest "absurd" -- and he's a Republican.

Thigpen remembers his family doctor inviting school kids to watch President Truman's inauguration at his home. Not a lot of people had TVs then, and it was a treat. What's interesting is, the doctor was a Republican.

But see, it wasn't about politics, it was the president of the United States -- the entire United States. Nowadays, that country doesn't exist. Everybody has to have a team, and that team always has to be right.

"Our politics have gotten so divisive, it really doesn't matter what the issue is," says David Woodard, a Clemson political science professor.

So basically, some idiot can get on the Internet and say the president is going to put children in a trance, or claim Obama is assembling a national police force, or that he was born in Africa, and more than a few people are actually going to believe it.

But then they say it's unpatriotic to criticize their guy.


'The O'Reilly Factor'

A couple of months ago, the conservative TV personality Bill O'Reilly wrote an article for Parade Magazine in which he praised President Obama for pulling himself up by his bootstraps and succeeding despite his origins -- broken family, modest means. He said those were lessons children could learn from.

If O'Reilly -- bane of the Democrats -- can see the merit of Obama's story, why can't these people?

It's too bad everything has become so vitriolic. It's not good for the country. And all this crying wolf makes the other side look more reasonable and hurts Republicans more than Democrats.

[Jolie Rouge]

I too am completely sick and tired of being told that if I disagree with his ideas its because he is black... no.. its because he believes and stands for things I do not... I could care less if he was freaking purple.. stop trying to make everything about race...


He was giving a speech telling kids to stay in school and get an education. How can someone disagree with that?

Taking up school time to tell kids to pay attention in school seems counterintuative ... more so because he is also giving another speech tonight. This is the fifth - sixth prime time speech ... why interupt instructional time ?


I don't think it was the speech as much as the activities he gave the teachers to give to their students that some objected too.


He didn't give any activities to the teachers. The activities were suggestions made by the DoE, not Obama.

So as per the methods of this administration ... if it goes over as a good idea - it is all Obama; if it goes over as a bad idea it is always someone else's idea; a misquote, taken out of context. Obama chose the Sect of Education; I doubt this was not run by him; I doubt this was not part of his plan... much as the school commision he was on prior to the Senate.


you missed the point.

It’s not the speech, it’s the subtext.

It’s the radical activism of the White House Teaching Fellows who designed the education guides tied to Obama’s speech.

It’s the overzealousness of public school educators who have turned classrooms into Obama campaign offices.

It’s the influence of the left-wing social justice crusaders of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge on Team Obama.

It’s the Left’s embrace of Obama Chicago pal Bill Ayers’ pedagogical philosophy of “education as the motor-force of revolution.”

It’s the activist tradition of government schools using students as junior lobbyists to pressure legislators for higher education spending, pro-illegal immigration protests, gay marriage, environmental propaganda, and anti-war causes.



“I walked out of jail and into my first teaching position—and from that day until this I’ve thought of myself as a teacher, but I’ve also understood teaching as a project intimately connected with social justice. After all, the fundamental message of the teacher is this: you can change your life—whoever you are, wherever you’ve been, whatever you’ve done, another world is possible. As students and teachers begin to see themselves as linked to one another, as tied to history and capable of collective action, the fundamental message of teaching shifts slightly, and becomes broader, more generous: we must change ourselves as we come together to change the world. Teaching invites transformations, it urges revolutions small and large. La educacion es revolucion!”

This is why informed parents do not trust the Educator-in-Chief and his “comrades.” You can take Obama from the radicals in Chicago. But you can’t take the Chicago radicalism out of Obama.

[littlebuggy]

It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

.


Only reference to race I can find in this thread is by the very people screaming:"not racist!"?

Sorry to bring this up again, just wanted to point this out.

[Jolie Rouge]

It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

Perhaps in your own mind.

Why do you presume to speak for the rest of us ?

[hesnothere]

Thanks. Once again I tried to post a positive news item, something we could all agree on perhaps. Once again it has to be taken over by the always correct post police and made into something ugly.

[pepperpot]

Thanks. Once again I tried to post a positive news item, something we could all agree on perhaps. Once again it has to be taken over by the always correct post police and made into something ugly.

Thread title....


Laura Bush praises Obama, bemoans excessive partisanship

Laura Bush praises Obama - okay, that's positive especially if one supports/agrees with Obama

bemoans excessive partisanship - now that part doesn't sound too positive to me :hmmmm:

I thought threads/posts were made to discuss them, not just give high fives and Obama fist bumps. :shrug

[krisharry]

That glorious, lovely man is my husband-in-my-head - Bono.

2 weeks until U2 heaven for me. Going to see them on the 23rd and 24th, 2 days before my birthday.

Have fun, I would looove to see U2.

[krisharry]

I always like Laura, always thought she was a classy lady.

[dangerousfem]

Thanks. Once again I tried to post a positive news item, something we could all agree on perhaps. Once again it has to be taken over by the always correct post police and made into something ugly.

ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

To the topic at hand.. I too have always though Laura Bush was a very classy lady.


It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

[ahippiechic]

ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

To the topic at hand.. I too have always though Laura Bush was a very classy lady.

Could you show me where someone said that?

[Bahet]

ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

To the topic at hand.. I too have always though Laura Bush was a very classy lady.

You might want to reread post #5 by Jolie.

I'm a buddy? Schweeet.

Oh, and you can choose to see it as something against race. Personally I was referring more to the Republican part than the white part. I very nearly added "wealthy" as well but figured then that would only spur whines of "But Obama's rich tooooo!" If it makes you feel better let's just pretend I didn't post the part about being white. My statement still stands that "It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a Republican." I find it highly amusing and more than a little bit telling that instead of anyone in the past 6 pages rebutting me with "No, I think the President deserves respect regardless of his race of political party." it's nothing but whines that it's somehow only about race.

[galeane29]

Living here in Europe where my kids go to DoD schools with some of the best education in the world they didn't have an option about watching it. If they were in school they watched it. No one took their kids out of school to the best of my knowledge. 90+% of the kids are military brats. Their parents may not agree with Obama but they respect that he's their boss and the President of our country.

It just amazes me that the very same people who ranted and raved that Dems needed to respect Bush because he was our President even after the fiasco of Katrina, billions in missing money, no bid contracts, illegal wire tapping, and lying to the American people to get us to support a war against a country that never attacked us thereby wasting thousands of lives are the very same people who have absolutely no respect for Obama who hasn't done anything even remotely as bad. It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a white Republican.

Good for Laura Bush though. I can't stand her husband but she's a classy lady.


Could you show me where someone said that?


It was on the first page

[galeane29]

I don't know why color even has to be brought into the equation. I'm sick to death of being told that I'm racist because I don't agree with this or that. Obama's color has nothing to do with the way I feel.

[Bahet]

I don't know why color even has to be brought into the equation. I'm sick to death of being told that I'm racist because I don't agree with this or that. Obama's color has nothing to do with the way I feel.
Maybe you type slow and missed my response posted 5 minutes before your post quoting that one sentence.


Oh, and you can choose to see it as something against race. Personally I was referring more to the Republican part than the white part. I very nearly added "wealthy" as well but figured then that would only spur whines of "But Obama's rich tooooo!" If it makes you feel better let's just pretend I didn't post the part about being white. My statement still stands that "It just goes to show that they only meant that the President deserves respect if, and only if, he's a Republican." I find it highly amusing and more than a little bit telling that instead of anyone in the past 6 pages rebutting me with "No, I think the President deserves respect regardless of his race of political party." it's nothing but whines that it's somehow only about race.

[pepperpot]

But Bahet, you did say "White"...., and it was meant about 'race' not the color of a shirt or anything else, if you want to alter or 'clarify' your statement as you did, no problems there....but why should we 'pretend' that you didn't....you did say it. :agree :shrug

[Bahet]

But Bahet, you did say "White"...., and it was meant about 'race' not the color of a shirt or anything else, if you want to alter or 'clarify' your statement as you did, no problems there....but why should we 'pretend' that you didn't....you did say it. :agree :shrug

Well I was hoping for a better discussion rather than whines that "I'm not a racist!" After 6 pages I gave up and said let's see if we can get even one page where someone says "I think all Presidents deserve respect because of their title" or even "Respect has to be earned regardless of whether or not the person involved is the POTUS."

If, however, you'd rather keep this a race card thread go right ahead. :shrug I'll just start a spinoff. FTR, I don't think it is a race issue so much as some liberals try to make it out to be. I said exactly that on my board several days ago. I know of people who cry racist if a black man gets pulled over by the police while completely ignoring the fact that he was driving 50mph in a school zone. I hate the constant cries of racism. I wish I hadn't even mentioned it here. The fact is I did. The fact is also that there are a lot of Republicans who hate Obama with no real reason. It leaves it open to speculation, especially when they loved Bush for doing so many worse things than they whine about Obama doing.

[galeane29]

She's just trying to cover her own azz after her 'racist' remarks. Own up to what you said and move on.....

[Bahet]

:rofl: Which is what exactly? If I was covering my azz as you so Christianly put it I would be backpedaling. I said exactly what I meant to say. I didn't intend for it to result in now 7 pages of whining. That's on the whiners. Again, should we focus on a race issue or on wheth or not the POTUS deserves respect because of his office and not his political party? Or are you just worried that you can't say the POTUS has to earn respect because peole were told, under W's reign, that the POTUS automatically deserves respect. I'm not the one backpedaling. It's the ones who said one thing under Bush but now no longer feel the need to be held to the same standards they not so nicely trashed others for.

[mabby89]

Turn on the tube, what do I see?
A whole lotta people cryin', "Don't blame me,"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your mama's too thin and your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin', and cryin', and pitchin' a fit
Get over it
Get over it

You say you haven't been the same
Since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight

You don't wanna work, you wanna live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't wanna play then you might as well quit
Get over it
Get over it

It's like goin' to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losing streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
Yeah, yeah, yeah

You drag it around like a ball on a chain
You wallow in the guilt, you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in a gutter bringin' everybody down
You b!tch about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick it's little ass

Get over it
Get over it
All this b!tchin', and moanin', and pitchin' a fit
Get over it
Get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop some time, so why don't you quit?
Get over it
Get over it

This really seemed appropriate right about now.

[hesnothere]

Thread title....



Laura Bush praises Obama - okay, that's positive especially if one supports/agrees with Obama

bemoans excessive partisanship - now that part doesn't sound too positive to me :hmmmm:

I thought threads/posts were made to discuss them, not just give high fives and Obama fist bumps. :shrug

Nope, the thread wasn't made for high fives and fist bumps. It was a news item I thought was interesting and positive because it came from Laura Bush.


ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

I did put the blame exactly where it belonged, you just disagree with me and would rather point the finger elsewhere. No problem, that's your prerogative.

On a side note, I always did want a buddy.

[NasCat]

Turn on the tube, what do I see?
A whole lotta people cryin', "Don't blame me,"
They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else
Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves
Victim of this, victim of that
Your mama's too thin and your daddy's too fat

Get over it
Get over it
All this whinin', and cryin', and pitchin' a fit
Get over it
Get over it

You say you haven't been the same
Since you had your little crash
But you might feel better if I gave you some cash
The more I think about it, Old Billy was right
Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight

You don't wanna work, you wanna live like a king
But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it
Get over it
If you don't wanna play then you might as well quit
Get over it
Get over it

It's like goin' to confession every time I hear you speak
You're makin' the most of your losing streak
Some call it sick, but I call it weak
Yeah, yeah, yeah

You drag it around like a ball on a chain
You wallow in the guilt, you wallow in the pain
You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown
Got your mind in a gutter bringin' everybody down
You b!tch about the present and blame it on the past
I'd like to find your inner child and kick it's little ass

Get over it
Get over it
All this b!tchin', and moanin', and pitchin' a fit
Get over it
Get over it

Get over it
Get over it
It's gotta stop some time, so why don't you quit?
Get over it
Get over it

This really seemed appropriate right about now.

Amen, sister!!!!

[galeane29]

:rofl: Which is what exactly? If I was covering my azz as you so Christianly put it I would be backpedaling. I said exactly what I meant to say. I didn't intend for it to result in now 7 pages of whining. That's on the whiners. Again, should we focus on a race issue or on wheth or not the POTUS deserves respect because of his office and not his political party? Or are you just worried that you can't say the POTUS has to earn respect because peole were told, under W's reign, that the POTUS automatically deserves respect. I'm not the one backpedaling. It's the ones who said one thing under Bush but now no longer feel the need to be held to the same standards they not so nicely trashed others for.


Why do you always bring up my Christianity? Why MUST you always act the way you do, which is hateful?

I'm not whining, I came in on the last page of this and pointed out exactly what Hippie asked for. When the race card is played people get mad. You made a racist remark and people are calling you on it. Get over yourself.

[hesnothere]

Wonders why a Christian would have an avatar of a seemingly nekkid girl with a butterfly stuck to her azz...

[pepperpot]

Nope, the thread wasn't made for high fives and fist bumps. It was a news item I thought was interesting and positive because it came from Laura Bush.


Yes, she did say something positive and she also commented that certain items were changed from the original 'program' as there were concerns.

It was not so much as him giving a talk of encouragement, but the verbiage to clarify exactly what he means/meant, which was the 'concern'. Some saw it as being ambiguous, especially with so much controversy with some of his plans on his ''want list". Yes, unfortunately given the circumstances and suspicions surrounding his presidency, etc., he must choose his words very carefully.

[hesnothere]

I read the original speech and didn't think there was a problem with what was being asked of the kids.

I understood it to mean How can you help me help you, not How can you help me turn you all into mindless socialists.

[pepperpot]

I couldn't find the original speech with the letter recommendations....however, from what I did see posted about, it could be viewed ambiguously given everything else going on and his associations.

Well, a compromise was reached and his speech was adjusted. :shrug

[Jolie Rouge]

... The fact is also that there are a lot of Republicans who hate Obama with no real reason. It leaves it open to speculation, especially when they loved Bush for doing so many worse things than they whine about Obama doing...


... a lot of Republicans who hate Obama ...
I don't "hate" anyone. I disagree with some of Obama's policies and actions ... just as ( and I know you find this difficult to accept ) I disagreed with Bush ... and Clinton .... and GH Bush ... and Reagan.


...with no real reason... :rofl: :rofl: He gives us plenty of LEGITIMATE reasons to criticize him : bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, giving the Queen of England an IPOD as an official gift, 57 states, believing we can spend our way to prosperity, if the Government lacks money he prints it, virtually begging the Chinese to keep lending us money, appointing tax cheats to Government jobs, nationalizing banks and GM, pushing unproven wind and solar energy over proven coal and nuclear, canceling the F22 Raptor fighter, claiming he saved a few hundred thousand jobs, his declining poll numbers, the 1.9 Trillion dollar "error" in accounting; asking citizens to "snitch" on their neighbors for disagreement with the Big Nanny Goverment Plans; The David Copperfield School of Economic Recovery; appointing an Energy Sect. who wants to combat "Global Warming" by painting roofs and roadways white; Van Jones; Acorn; ties with the SIEU; John Holdren; Aunti Zeituni Onyango; the 30+ Czars …… ect ect ect (Dare I say more or will someone get "wee weed up" ?)



... especially when they loved Bush for doing so many worse things than they whine about Obama doing...

See above comments about prior POTUS ... and whom is doing "worse" is rather subjective; dontcha think ?

78% Say All Americans Should Be Able To Buy The Health Insurance That Congress Has
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...t_congress_has


37% Now Rate Obama’s Leadership Skills As Poor video ...
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/cont.../2240_MU090909


52% of Insured Americans Say They’d Have to Switch Coverage if Health Care Reform Passes
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._reform_passes

83% Say Proof of Citizenship Should Be Required to Get Government Health Aid
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ent_health_aid

60% Say Obama At Least As Ethical As Most Politicians
( Is that like saying he is as honest as most con men ? ;) )
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...st_politicians


51% Say Congress is Too Liberal, 22% Say It’s Too Conservative
( 15% say they are all con men ... ?? ;) )
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...o_conservative


68% Say Passage of Health Care Reform Will Increase Deficit
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...crease_deficit

[speedygirl]

I'm forgetting what the subject of this thread is about. Can someone refresh my memory again. ;) lol

[Jolie Rouge]

I couldn't find the original speech with the letter recommendations....

Posted in the other thread on the same subject ...


Well, a compromise was reached and his speech was adjusted.

:party: :party:

and who is to say that the speech he gave was the original speech he planned to give ? This administration has a habit of floating ideas & concepts thru various often "undisclosed" sources to test the reactions.




I'm forgetting what the subject of this thread is about. Can someone refresh my memory again.

That Laura Bush is a Lady in the truest sense of the word.



:dancing: :dancing: :dancing: :dancing:
:dancing: :dancing: :dancing:
:dancing:

[Bahet]

When Bush walked around holding hands ith the king of Saudi no Republican had a problem with it. He was "mending fences" and "being diplomatic".

I also didn't say you hate Jolie. I know you don't. You're more intelligent than that. I'm referring to so called preachers praying for him to die an awful death, people bringing guns to rallys, the increased vocalism of the KKK and white supremists, email forwards asking people to pray for Obama's death if they love God and America, and other things like that. That's hate. I could not stand Bush. I hold him personally responsible for wasting thousands of our soldier's lives. But I have never prayed for his death.

The 57 states thing was stupid. But really, do we want to say that is a sign of his intelligence? Because if you really believe that because he said it, he must believe it then you have to agree that Bush doesn't know Africa is a continent and not a country or that there are black people in Brazil. Let's not forget that he was borderline illiterate with some of his made up words and pathetic grammatical errors.

[ahippiechic]

Could you show me where someone said that?


It was on the first page

No I want someone to show me where someone said this

dangerousfem
Quote:

ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

To the topic at hand.. I too have always though Laura Bush was a very classy lady.

So show me where someone told someone else that they 'were against something because of race'. Because I can't find it.

[Bahet]

No I want someone to show me where someone said this

dangerousfem
Quote:

ok.. not trying to continue the arguing... and this is my last one in here... but make sure you put the blame where it goes...we did not start the neg turn in your thread.. your buddy did.. we simply reacted to once again being told that we were against something because of race.

To the topic at hand.. I too have always though Laura Bush was a very classy lady.

So show me where someone told someone else that they 'were against something because of race'. Because I can't find it.

Oh, that's where they pick apart my remark, ignore the fact that they demanded Bush be respected simply because of his job title while giving Obama none at all, brush off the part where Republicans only think a President deserves respect if he's a Republican and instead harp, for 7 pages, on the word "white" while ignoring the rest of my post and turning a blind eye towards the reason for it. It's a distraction game to avoid having to discuss the real point.

[pepperpot]

Oh, that's where they pick apart my remark, ignore the fact that they demanded Bush be respected simply because of his job title while giving Obama none at all, brush off the part where Republicans only think a President deserves respect if he's a Republican and instead harp, for 7 pages, on the word "white" while ignoring the rest of my post and turning a blind eye towards the reason for it. It's a distraction game to avoid having to discuss the real point.

Just to clarify....which 'they' are you talking about now?

This 'they'....


Well I was hoping for a better discussion rather than whines that "I'm not a racist!" After 6 pages I gave up and said let's see if we can get even one page where someone says "I think all Presidents deserve respect because of their title" or even "Respect has to be earned regardless of whether or not the person involved is the POTUS."

If, however, you'd rather keep this a race card thread go right ahead. I'll just start a spinoff. FTR, I don't think it is a race issue so much as some liberals try to make it out to be. I said exactly that on my board several days ago. I know of people who cry racist if a black man gets pulled over by the police while completely ignoring the fact that he was driving 50mph in a school zone. I hate the constant cries of racism. I wish I hadn't even mentioned it here. The fact is I did. The fact is also that there are a lot of Republicans who hate Obama with no real reason. It leaves it open to speculation, especially when they loved Bush for doing so many worse things than they whine about Obama doing.


That 'they'....


I also didn't say you hate Jolie. I know you don't. You're more intelligent than that. I'm referring to so called preachers praying for him to die an awful death, people bringing guns to rallys, the increased vocalism of the KKK and white supremacists, email forwards asking people to pray for Obama's death if they love God and America, and other things like that. That's hate. I could not stand Bush. I hold him personally responsible for wasting thousands of our soldier's lives. But I have never prayed for his death.


or another "they"? :confused:

It's hard to follow....there's 7 pages of whine over here, 6 pages of whine over there, preachers, KKK members, Republicans, Liberals, racist criers, email forwarders, Bush, police, black men driving? Even Jolie doesn't really know if she's a "they"....

Which "they"........do KKK members whine for 7 pages? Is it Bush who wouldn't want you to start a spin off thread or your board?

Is there a "distraction game" and a "Confusion game" going on at the same time? :confused:

Really....I can't even tell who is being referred to anymore. :shrug And I'm not being snarky, it's all very confusing.

[krisharry]

For what it's worth, I have a certain respect for the office of POTUS but each man or woman holding that office must earn my respect like anyone else. Doesn't matter if we are talking about Obama, Bush, or E.T. If you are deserving of my respect, then you will get it even if I disagree with your policies.

Just because someone is an elected official doesn't mean that they will automatically gain my respect. After all Hitler was elected and I have nothing but utter disdain and disgust for that man. (Now nobody get their panties in a wad, I am not comparing Obama or Bush or anyone to Hitler, just saying is all.)

[gmyers]

I agree I don't automatically respect them either till they earn it.

[Bahet]

I don't automatically respect them all either. Respect is earned, not given. I will, however, at least give them a chance. I start off respecting the office and thereby the person in it. If that person loses my respect their job title isn't going to save it for them.

Pepper, really, I don't know what's going on with you. You won't answer my PMs. So I'll just go on and continue to post with you the way I have for the past few years while brushing off the way you've started to post towards me the past few months. To answer your question though, as I've stated several times, I wonder about the position now of those who do hate, or seem to hate, or at the very least give no respect at all, to Obama if they were the same people who chastised myself and others for saying we didn't respect Bush. We were told that the office deserves respect and just because we didn't like the guy holding it that didn't mean he didn't deserve our respect because of his job title. Those people now seem to be of the mind that they owe Obama no respect at all even though he has the same job title Bush did. I'm sorry if it was confusing. I thought I was being clear. :shrug

[freeby4me]

Bahet, it doesnt matter that you dont really care for Obama, that you didnt vote for him and you dont trust him, the fact of the matter is you dont "hate" him and are therefor against all of those who do.

You're just as bad as the Liberals in their mind. I believe this smiley explains it perfectly. :bangdesk or perhaps? :banghead: but then my response, :wamb you get the idea :lol

[galeane29]

I don't remember seeing anyone here say they 'hate' Obama.

[freeby4me]

I don't remember seeing anyone here say they 'hate' Obama.

So now we change our feelings on a thread to thread basis? Since when?

[galeane29]

I NEVER said I HATED the man, I just do not agree with his policies. Where and please quote me if I have EVER said I hated him?

[hesnothere]

You don't have to say the actual word hate. Venomous feelings can be conveyed in myriad ways.

[galeane29]

Oh geez!

[pepperpot]

Pepper, really, I don't know what's going on with you. You won't answer my PMs. So I'll just go on and continue to post with you the way I have for the past few years while brushing off the way you've started to post towards me the past few months. To answer your question though, as I've stated several times, I wonder about the position now of those who do hate, or seem to hate, or at the very least give no respect at all, to Obama if they were the same people who chastised myself and others for saying we didn't respect Bush. We were told that the office deserves respect and just because we didn't like the guy holding it that didn't mean he didn't deserve our respect because of his job title. Those people now seem to be of the mind that they owe Obama no respect at all even though he has the same job title Bush did. I'm sorry if it was confusing. I thought I was being clear. :shrug

:hmmmm: PMs, as in plural?

But you aren't answering the question. Who are 'they' and 'those'? You refer to 'them' all the time being ambiguously specific. When someone on this board defends themself (or tries to) with validity, it switches to a 'general' or 'I wasn't talking about the members here', etc. If you are referring to those who are not posting on this board, what are the 6 pages or 7 pages of whines coming from?

[pepperpot]

You don't have to say the actual word hate. Venomous feelings can be conveyed in myriad ways.

Yes, I too can sense the venonmous feelings to those who dare to challenge the Messiah. :agree

[freeby4me]

Yes, I too can sense the venonmous feelings to those who dare to challenge the Messiah. :agree

:rolling:rolling:rolling and this is a perfect example. Thank you.

Those who questioned or disagreed with King George were un-patriotic and un-american and terrorist lovers.

Ahh, gotta love the hypocrisy. Its been what, a couple of weeks now since someone posted blatant hypocrisy, I kind of missed it.

[galeane29]

Do you even know what hypocrisy means?

[freeby4me]

Well for one you're practically a walking definition of it.

Trust me, everyone on "this side" can totally see it, despite your multiple personality disorder where one thread you're nasty as can be about Obama and then the next thread its "But I dont hate him".
We remember back during the election. No point in trying to make nicey nicey now. We know better.

[pepperpot]

Do you even know what hypocrisy means?

Pay no attention, it's been a couple weeks.....;)

http://www.monettoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/midol.jpg

[freeby4me]

Pay no attention, it's been a couple weeks.....;)

http://www.monettoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/midol.jpg

Hardy har har. Actually its been about 8 months. Something called birth control, you should look into it some time.

Oh yea, that was funny the first time, now, the what? 9th time, you're just showing off how pathetic you are. Nice.

[galeane29]

Like I said, quote me!

I was never 'nasty'. I only state my opinion about a subject. You and your 'gang' are the ones that are nasty to those of us that don't agree with you.

I don't HATE anyone and I've never stated I have. If I don't agree with something someone believes in or how someone lives does not mean I hate them.

A hypocrite is someone that says one thing but does another. I stick to my guns and have never backed down.

Like I said, go back and find where I was nasty and hateful about Obama? Go ahead, I'll wait....

[galeane29]

LOL Pepper

[pepperpot]

That explains it all!

:agree

[freeby4me]

Like I said, quote me!

I was never 'nasty'. I only state my opinion about a subject. You and your 'gang' are the ones that are nasty to those of us that don't agree with you.

I don't HATE anyone and I've never stated I have. If I don't agree with something someone believes in or how someone lives does not mean I hate them.

A hypocrite is someone that says one thing but does another. I stick to my guns and have never backed down.

Like I said, go back and find where I was nasty and hateful about Obama? Go ahead, I'll wait....

Go ahead and wait. I am not going to bother going back, what, 15 months to quote you over and over again.
I know im right, my "gang" :rolleyes: knows im right too.

True to Republican form :But I dont do that. :rolleyes:

[freeby4me]

Someone calls you out on your BS and you both being totally typical clucking women resort to "oh she's being a ***** it must be she's on her period".
Sorry, you're getting a little too immature and pathetic for me. Im out.

[pepperpot]

~~~musical interlude~~~ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mOEU87SBTU)

[mabby89]

Do you even know what hypocrisy means?

Im sure everyone here does know what hypocrisy means. Just to refresh your memory:

a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

And just in case you have forgotten what a hypocrite is:

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

[SurferGirl]

It seems like some of the liberals are up to their usual tricks.
They consider all those that aren't bowing to the messiah to be hypocrites or haters. Same old story and it gets really old.

If they really need to call people haters and hypocrites maybe they should aim those responses to people like Michelle Obama or Barack Obama or Pelosi or Reid. Now those are the true haters and hypocrites.

[candygirl]

It seems like some of the liberals are up to their usual tricks.
They consider all those that aren't bowing to the messiah to be hypocrites or haters. Same old story and it gets really old.

If they really need to call people haters and hypocrites maybe they should aim those responses to people like Michelle Obama or Barack Obama or Pelosi or Reid. Now those are the true haters and hypocrites.


:potkettle ,:rofl::rofl:

[SHELBYDOG]

:whistle
It seems like some of the liberals are up to their usual tricks.
They consider all those that aren't bowing to the messiah to be hypocrites or haters. Same old story and it gets really old.

If they really need to call people haters and hypocrites maybe they should aim those responses to people like Michelle Obama or Barack Obama or Pelosi or Reid. Now those are the true haters and hypocrites.

Who didn't know this was coming next? :whistle

[SurferGirl]

Well wouldn't it be the logical response to some of the nonsense that is perpetrated by the left.

[hesnothere]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/threwabrick/icons/oots07.gif

Now you went and made Bono cry.

[mabby89]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/threwabrick/icons/oots07.gif

Now you went and made Bono cry.

So, so sad. :bawling:

[SHELBYDOG]

Well wouldn't it be the logical response to some of the nonsense that is perpetrated by the left.

Logical in your mind only.......

[gmyers]

:lurker:pepsi:

[cSoReNSoN]

Cue the prerequisite "Obama's a babykiller" interjection into the Laura Bush praise of Obama in 1, 2, 3....

(We've already got the prerequisite Reid, Pelosi, Michelle Obama, Messiah and most likely Chicago style politics interjections into the thread, so it seemed inevitable. ETA I forgot ACORN!)

[SHELBYDOG]

Cue the prerequisite "Obama's a babykiller" interjection into the Laura Bush praise of Obama in 1, 2, 3....

(We've already got the prerequisite Reid, Pelosi, Michelle Obama, Messiah and most likely Chicago style politics interjections into the thread, so it seemed inevitable. ETA I forgot ACORN!)


That's up next no doubt, maybe she's trying to work into the conversation some how & if it's not possible it'll be screamed out of nowhere shortly.

[gmyers]

Boy politics gets peoples panties in a wad.:laugh:

[hesnothere]

Boy politics gets peoples panties in a wad.:laugh:

girl politics too.

[mabby89]

girl politics too.

:rofl::rofl:

[whatever]

Boy politics gets peoples panties in a wad.:laugh:

The problem is "some" take it from politics as a way to put down people or make jabs and seem to get off on it from what I have read at the last few pages. Because if they didn't they would just let it go. I have read soooo many times where people say they have enough drama in their real lives and yet you can come here ( and I barely have time to do so anymore ) and see the same freaking posts over and over just a new thread its under. Good grief!