Pool Boots Kids Who Might "Change the Complexion"

[hesnothere]

The ugly:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Pool-Boots-Kids-Who-Might-Change-the-Complexion.html

the swim club president John Duesler issued this statement: "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club."

The good:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Campers-Complexion-No-Problem-for-New-Pool.html

So the staff at Girard College, a private Philadelphia boarding school for children who live in low-income and single parent homes, stepped in and offered their pool.

[gmyers]

That makes me mad. Theres no need to treat people this way. The ones that did it should be fired. And the kids should be allowed to swim there.

[hesnothere]

Luckily Girard heard about it and stepped in. Sometimes I think the more we try to get ahead the more we fall behind.

[gmyers]

I think so too. Sometimes I wonder if this world will be a better place when the older generation that seem to still be so prejudiced die off. That sounds mean but I wonder if it would be better sometimes.

[Jenefer3]

That's really messed up and shouldn't happen. Unfortunately, there's a lot of prejudice out there, even in the younger generation.

[freeby4me]

I think so too. Sometimes I wonder if this world will be a better place when the older generation that seem to still be so prejudiced die off. That sounds mean but I wonder if it would be better sometimes.

The only thing is though the kids got out of the pool. That means the "torch" has already been passed, and passed on it shall go.

Its disgusting that something like this is even allowed.

[hesnothere]

I wouldn't blame just the older generation, although they helped foster these feelings. I think the people at the private pool are probably between 30 and 50, on the more wealthy side and under the impression that they fart rose petals.

[gmyers]

Yeah you're right. Some of these people are so snotty toward people they don't think are as good as them. I hate when people act like they're so much better than aeverybody else. And they're passing on these feelings to their kids which is sickening.

[pepperpot]

That's horrible......I could understand if the 'country club'/'private club' just said 'too many rowdy kids' at one time....but because of their race.....uh uh....:nono:

Growing up I used to live near a public pool where many day camps brought the kids and it was rowdy, crazy and chaotic........there was no where (room) to swim.....one literally could not extend an arm without touching another.......nevermind all the splashing.....but it was a public pool.....'you got what you paid for'. Had that been a private pool and I was paying heavy membership fees, I would've complained or just rescinded my 'membership'. :shrug

But because of 'race'/'complexion'? No way.....

[krisharry]

1st story-disgusting, and people think racism doesn't exist?

2nd story-cudos to them for stepping up

[fleabones3]

One would think the president of the stuck up racist club would know better than to say because of complexion. I mean come on. Might as well have just said because those kids are black. Tomorrow Jesse Jackson will be there along with his posse.. wonder what that club will think then...

Glad someone stepped up and gave those kids a place to swim. EVERY kid should get to swim in the summer, black, white, green, purple... dont matter.

[pepperpot]

One would think the president of the stuck up racist club would know better than to say because of complexion. I mean come on. Might as well have just said because those kids are black. Tomorrow Jesse Jackson will be there along with his posse.. wonder what that club will think then...

Glad someone stepped up and gave those kids a place to swim. EVERY kid should get to swim in the summer, black, white, green, purple... dont matter.

Exactly, what person in this day and age would come out say something like that? The ramifications of such a hideous remark, especially upon a business is quite numerous. They'd have to be pretty dumb, arrogant and prejudiced to do that. :agree And if it did really happen, they deserve the ramifications.

[nightrider127]

This is sad that this kind of thing is still going on. Not only does it affect people who experience that kind of predjuiced (sp) treatment, it also effects people who are monied and tried to do the right thing. It wasn't that long ago that I talked to some girls who came from what is probably the most upscale neighborhood in Cincinnati. They told me that no matter what kind of good they tried to do, people still looked on them as snobs. Now that is just sad.

[gmyers]

I just saw them interviewing one of the kids a little boy. He was crying and said he couldn't believe people still felt the way they do nowadays. He said he heard one of the parents say they thought they would steal something or do something to one of their kids. I felt so sorry for the little boy he couldn't stop crying. He was really hurt by what that person said. Man people can really be jerks sometimes. Anyone that hurts a child is a total jerk and heartless.

[hesnothere]

Yep, last time I checked we were all members of the same race. If I must be labeled, I choose human.

[candygirl]

I just saw them interviewing one of the kids a little boy. He was crying and said he couldn't believe people still felt the way they do nowadays. He said he heard one of the parents say they thought they would steal something or do something to one of their kids. I felt so sorry for the little boy he couldn't stop crying. He was really hurt by what that person said. Man people can really be jerks sometimes. Anyone that hurts a child is a total jerk and heartless.


I saw the interview also ,and got filled just seeing that a child had to go through that , "Nowadays" :mad:,

[Jolie Rouge]

Swim club accused of racism to ask kids back
Ron Todt, Associated Press Writer – Mon Jul 13, 12:29 am ET

PHILADELPHIA – A private suburban swim club accused of racism after it canceled the memberships of dozens of minority children says it will seek a meeting with the kids' camps to work out an agreement for them to return.

Amy Goldman, a member of The Valley Club, said those able to attend a hastily called meeting Sunday afternoon voted unanimously in support of reinstating the memberships of the Creative Steps day camp and two other camps as long as safety issues, times and terms can be agreed upon.

The Creative Steps camp had arranged for 65 mostly black and Hispanic children to swim each Monday afternoon at the gated Huntingdon Valley club, which is on a leafy hillside in a village straddling two overwhelmingly white townships. But after the group arrived June 29, camp director Alethea Wright said, several children reported hearing racial comments and some swim club members pulled their children out of the pool.

The camp's $1,950 was refunded a few days later.

The president of the swim club's board of directors, John Duesler, has said the decision was made out of safety considerations, not racial concerns.

"We have near-unanimous approval from our membership, so at this point we'll be figuring out ... how to approach all the camps and see how we can move forward," Duesler told WPVI-TV at the club's entrance on Sunday.

The swim club has claimed it has a diverse, multiethnic membership, but Goldman, a member for two years, said she couldn't remember seeing a black member this year.

Goldman said members were told that the Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission, which has opened an investigation, is to make a fact-finding visit to the club July 30. U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., said Friday he had asked the U.S. Department of Justice to investigate "to determine what action, if any, is warranted by the Civil Rights Division."

Others to criticize the club include the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and the United States' highest-profile black swimmer, Olympic gold medalist Cullen Jones, who said Thursday that "hearing about what's happened to these 65 kids is both disturbing and appalling."

Chuck Wielgus, executive director of USA Swimming, the governing body for the U.S. swim team, said he was stunned by the accusations against the club.

Wright, the camp director, didn't immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Sunday evening. She said earlier that other institutions had offered to host her group at their pools for the summer.

Camp parent Silvia Carvalho said she hadn't heard about the club's action but didn't believe her 9-year-old daughter, Araceli, would be willing to return.

"She has already said so," Carvalho said Sunday night. "She doesn't want people to look at her the same way."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090713/ap_on_re_us/us_swim_club_minorities

[SurferGirl]

I'm not making excuses for the club but I think it's very unusual for any private swimming club or country club to allow use by other groups for a fee. The members pay for the club with their membership and dues and it would be unfair for the members to be restricted in their use by the club offering certain hours to other groups.

With that being said I wonder if that private club has offered it's pool to other similar sized groups and if the club or the other group provided adequate life guards. From what I saw on TV the pool didn't seem large enough to accommodate 65 kids at a time and if that was a problem they could have split up the group and only had a certain number in the pool at one time. That might have solved the one issue.

[gmyers]

They paid over 1900 dollars to use the pool. They can word it any way they want too but the remarks that were made were racial. Some of the club members didn't want them there and made comments. And with the comments that were made theres no doubt it was racism. They owe those kids an apology and the right to swim there too. I wish they'd take the pool from the stuck up snobs and give it to those kids. I hope they rule they can swim there any time they want and the club can't stop them.

[SurferGirl]

I wasn't defending the pool but said it is very unusual for a private pool to allow groups in for a fee. The pool is bought by it's members and maintained by their membership dues. If their is a lawsuit the dues go up because the insurance goes up.

That being said I spent 4 summers working as a life guard. We very seldom had any problem because all the kids that went there were familiar with the rules and they were very strict. We also had a perfect record of no injuries.
Some area pools had several injuries caused by kids running along the side of the pool on a wet and slippery surface. Any violation of the rules at our pool meant they were kicked out for anywhere from 1 day to a week or longer.

If that pool had previously accepted groups then they should allow this group back.

[pepperpot]

Putting anything/everything racial aside......

Groups of summer campers (kids) at a pool are quite different than a 'family' at a pool. Supervision is less (1:15 ratio vs. 1:1) and the control a parent has over their child, especially when they are not with a big group of other kids is stronger. Parents with kids in tow are usually more calm than a whole bunch of kids in a group. :agree

The college that offered these kids use of the pool used soley for the camp group is more appropriate. They won't be bothering anyone there. :nono:..and they'd probably have a better time there too. :agree

If the pool had a separate pool area where it could keep the campers to the side, it would be better off for all.

As a child I went to a summer program and our 'pool' was in a high school and we had specific times to be there. It worked out great. Nobody complained of the noise and splashing (and there were lots of that) and we had a great time.

If I had a pool membership to take my kids to (as a family) I wouldn't want the rukus of summer camp kids there.....no matter what color they were. But that's just me.

If a beach gets too crowded, I leave. However, if I'm paying a membership fee to avoid 'all that'.....I'd be pretty upset too.

and.....$1900 for 65 kids.....my friend just paid about $800 for her and her 2 boys for their 'pool club' and it's not a 'high end' club...just a 'regular pool club'.....$1900 is not that much considering.

*Now, the racial comments are and were uncalled for.

ETA: Poor business decision was made by the pool club to allow any camp group to intermingle with the 'regular membership'....they are 2 different kinds of customers looking for 2 different kinds of pool experience. Even at some of the resorts I've gone too (I think Disnery also)...they have a regular pool and a 'quiet' pool. 2 totally different atmospheres. It doesn't mean the "quiet" pool is full of 'snobs' neither.

[SurferGirl]

The racial comments were uncalled for if they were made. I can really understand how a pool that is set up for private membership would have a problem with a bunch of kids at one time. I know that if I was a life guard at the pool I would have complained and it would have nothing to do with race at all. If these kids aren't familiar with the rules at a private pool they could really be a handful and a real headache to any life guard. I think public pools might not be as strict but they usually have a few more life guards on duty at a time and if someone did sue over an injury or drowning it would fall on the city.

[gmyers]

If some of the parents made remarks about the kids stealing from them or hurting their kids. That doesn't sound like people that were not pleased because more people were there. It sounds like people that are prejudiced and didn't think these minority kids should be there with there kids. I don't believe that little boy would have been crying if what was said wasn't hurtful to him. I believe he couldn't believe people still felt that way and talked that way. And the remark about changing the complexion of the pool. That sounds like people that don't like being around minorities. Some of the regular patrons complained that they didn't want them there and they asked them to leave.

[pepperpot]

I agree, the race and/or minority should not play into it.

Was she concerned for safety b/c of overcrowding or horsing around (like all groups of kids do)? or did she think the black kid was going to 'pull a knife' or something? :shrug

Did the one crying kid run into an 'off the wall' person?

And agreed, the use of "complexion" is pretty a weird choice of words.

However, the point I'm trying to bring out is there are valid reasons why 'camp kids' and 'membership' should be separate....and it shouldn't be for racial reasons. In this instance, it probably is a bit of both but the moment they brought race into it....they lost the argument/validity.

[SurferGirl]

There are way too many things to consider and I find it hard to believe that a private pool would have groups like this in. Who is going to evaluate that many kids to find out their swimming level? Does to pool have a roped in shallow area for the ones that aren't good swimmers? I don't remember what state it was in but think unless it was for some type of swimming class or competition it would be unusual. I guess I'm thinking more from a safety standard.

My first thought when I saw it on the news is that I wouldn't feel safe having my kids swim in such a large group unless I was there with them especially those kids that might not be real good swimmers yet. I think the parents should have found a place that offers qualified swimming lessons. If the kids are good swimmers than it might be a different situation. However a group from a day camp would more than likely have different levels of swimming ability.

[pepperpot]

Usually these types of pools are mostly 3-4ft.....one doesn't need to be extremely 'proficient'....just able to stand up in one. But over crowding and horsing around would be my concern.

When they have a diving board/slide....then they are deeper and usually have a life guard and are carefully monitored for how many kids allowed in at one time.

[SurferGirl]

Now that sounds like a real small pool to me.

The place that I worked we had an Olympic size pool and the other pool was quite large but it was designed for a shallow roped in area and then a deep area where the diving boards where that was also roped off and the rest of the pool probably ranged from 4 to 7 foot close to where the diving area was. I almost forgot they also had a pool for the toddlers.

Those pools were big but I still would have freaked out if someone brought a bus load of kids. Where I worked small kids had to be accompanied by a parent. They had to earn the right to swim in the regular part of the pool and then the ability to use the diving boards.

The Olympic size pool they had to earn that right too by swimming 2 complete laps non stop and still be able to breath pretty good when they finished.

I think they have added an Olympic size indoor pool for swim teams and swim training.

I just would find it strange that people who think 30 students in a classroom is overcrowded would want a few life guards responsible for 60 or more kids in addition to the kids that would already be there. To me it sounds like a very dangerous situation.
It sounds like the manager had no idea what he was doing setting something like that up in the first place.

[gmyers]

Tyler Perry is sending all 65 kids to disney world. He wants them to know that not all people treat people bad. Thats sweet of him.

[jasmine]

http://www.bvblackspin.com/2009/07/21/tyler-perry-philly-pool-disneyworld/?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl3|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bvblackspin.com%2F 2009%2F07%2F21%2Ftyler-perry-philly-pool-disneyworld%2F


Tyler Perry Treats Philly Pool Kids to Disney World
Posted by Carmen Dixon on Jul 21st 2009 2:00PM
Filed under: News, Race and Civil Rights

Comments
Tyler Perry is treating the 65 day campers who were ejected from the Philadelphia-area Valley Swim Club to the vacation of a lifetime. Perry is stepping in to help heal the scars and hearts of the kids, who believe they were rejected because they were "too dark to swim." Here's what Perry had to say:

Since you all have put me in the position to be able to do something, I feel like by me doing this, we are all doing it together.

So what I did was on Aug 1st through the 3rd, I'm sending these kids to Disney World and then to a Disney water park. I want them to know that for every act of evil that a few people will throw at you, there are millions more who will do something kind for them. This is all about the kids. So, thank you for letting me do this. Thank you so much.



And Perry continues:

And do me a favor please. When you see these kids coming through the airport (I'm sure you won't be able to miss them; I imagine they are going to be superexcited), when you see them in the park and in the hotel, let's show them a whole lot of love and respect. Show them that they are just as good as anyone else. And show them that they can do or be anything they want to be no matter what anyone says! Source: TylerPerry.com

It's nice to see Perry use his considerable wealth and cultural power to get directly involved in a situation that moved him. I hope this vacation expands the notion of possibility in the minds of the day campers and helps them understand that they are worthy of all the best the world has to offer.

Tagged as: POOL RACISM, PoolRacism, Tyler Perry, TylerPerry

[SurferGirl]

Hopefully that will solve the situation.

I still feel that depending on the size of the pool and the number of life guards it was more of a safety issue. Having 65 kids show up all at once that aren't used to that pool and might not have swimming skills could be very dangerous. In the years that I was a life guard I never even had to do CPR but I had to take the course each year in addition to the red cross life saving and then the one at the pool. A group of kids like that it would be very difficult to see if one had gone under or was being held under. The pool should have set it up to have them there all five days but in groups of 10 to 15. That would have solved the safely issue. They could have been there along with the regular members and it would have worked out better.

I remember that the first few days of summer how crowded the pool I worked for got and then on really hot days it would also get crowded we would get games going and activities to avoid the kids getting into real big groups. It really is hard to spot a problem if the kids do all form a large group. Plus regular members would all know the rules and know how important safety is.

Personally I think all schools should have a swimming program even if the school doesn't have a pool they should make arrangements at a community pool or another school pool. They should teach swimming along with other forms of physical fitness.

[jasmine]

http://news.aol.com/article/pennsylvania-swim-club-penalized-for/683598

Swim Club Penalized for Racial ComplaintCNN

posted: 1 HOUR 17 MINUTES
(Sept. 23) --
The Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission issued a finding of probable cause Tuesday that racism was involved in the decision last June by a suburban Philadelphia swim club to revoke privileges of a largely minority day care center.

The commission ordered a civil penalty of a up to $50,000, plus additional monetary damages for humiliation and embarrassment.

The decision noted that none of the club's 155 paid members this year was African-American.

Last year, according to the decision, there were "179 paid memberships, none of whom were African American."

In addition, the decision noted that in 2009, the Valley Club "made a concerted effort to expand the geographic range of its membership by engaging in a marketing campaign.... The Respondent efforts were mainly directed at areas with overwhelmingly Caucasian populations.... The Respondent made no effort to direct such marketing efforts at areas with significant African American populations...."

"It's an invitation to sit down with our staff and have the parties settle their differences," said Stephen Glassman, chairman of the commission, of the 33-page decision. "If they don't, it will go on to a public hearing, a trial."

He said the Valley Swim Club has 30 days to appeal.
Joe Tucker, a lawyer for the swim club, said his client will do just that. "We believe this is wrong," he told CNN in a telephone interview.

"I believe the people at the PHRC are very good people, but they were put in a tough position ... If the PHRC would have decided against the children or in favor of the club, they would have been painted with the same unfair and untrue racist brush that the Valley Swim Club was painted with."

The controversy started after the Valley Swim Club revoked swimming privileges for the approximately 65 children -- most of them minorities -- from the Creative Steps day care center after a visit June 29.

Some black and Hispanic children said white club members made racist comments to them during that visit, asking why "black children were there" and raising concerns that "they might steal from us."

The day care center had originally contracted to use the pool during the summer, but the club canceled the agreement and returned the day-care center's $1,950 check without explanation. The club canceled contracts with two other day care centers because of safety and crowding, swim club director John Duesler said.
Those facilities have not protested the club's actions.

The issue was exacerbated when Duesler told two Philadelphia television stations the children had changed "the complexion" and "atmosphere" of the club. The comment brought protesters outside the facility.

Duesler later said that safety and crowding -- not racism -- prompted the cancellation.
As the controversy gained national attention, the swim club asked the day care center to return. Center officials refused and said they would pursue a lawsuit.

[pepperpot]

The decision noted that none of the club's 155 paid members this year was African-American.

Last year, according to the decision, there were "179 paid memberships, none of whom were African American."


Their membership declined by 13% in one year.

I'm sure economics played a part in that as pool club memberships are 'non-essentials' when budgets are being stretched.






In addition, the decision noted that in 2009, the Valley Club "made a concerted effort to expand the geographic range of its membership by engaging in a marketing campaign.... The Respondent efforts were mainly directed at areas with overwhelmingly Caucasian populations.... The Respondent made no effort to direct such marketing efforts at areas with significant African American populations...."


The part that they neglected to say is the economics of the neighborhoods they were soliciting. Were they going to the more affluent area which happened to be mainly white? Are there affluent areas that are mainly or have more of a black population that they ignored?

In other words, were they going after the neighborhood with the most money. Business wise, it doesn't make sense to solicit 'pool club' memberships in the projects where large portions of the tenants' rents are being supplemented by the government.



The day care center had originally contracted to use the pool during the summer, but the club canceled the agreement and returned the day-care center's $1,950 check without explanation. The club canceled contracts with two other day care centers because of safety and crowding, swim club director John Duesler said.
Those facilities have not protested the club's actions.

The issue was exacerbated when Duesler told two Philadelphia television stations the children had changed "the complexion" and "atmosphere" of the club. The comment brought protesters outside the facility.

Duesler later said that safety and crowding -- not racism -- prompted the cancellation.


It would be interesting to know when (before or after the media attention) the 2 other day care center contracts were canceled and what their ethnic make up is.


Some black and Hispanic children said white club members made racist comments to them during that visit, asking why "black children were there" and raising concerns that "they might steal from us."


This is totally out of line if they are inferring that just because the kids are black that they would steal from them.

And the usage of the term "complexion" seems a bit off too.