Nyc starts charging rent at homeless shelters

[anothersta]

Posted: 12:21 pm
May 9, 2009

-- Even the homeless can't escape the high price of a night in New York City.

City officials this month began charging rent to some families staying in homeless shelters.

The policy applies only to shelter residents who have income from jobs.

They could be expected to pay up to half their earnings.

Some shelter residents say the new rule will ruin their chances of saving enough money to get an apartment.

One single mother living in a Manhattan shelter tells The New York Times she got a letter saying she had to give up $336 of the $800 she makes each month as a cashier.

The city says it is only charging people who can afford to pay.

About 2,000 families are expected to be covered by the new rule.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05092009/news/regionalnews/nyc_starts_charging_rent_at_homeless_she_168417.ht m

[gmyers]

How are they going to save if they have to pay to stay there. Its going to make people leave the shelters.

[Bahet]

$800/month in Manhattan and they group her in with "people who can afford to pay"?? It used to be a joke that "I make so little I can't afford to stay in a homeless shelter." I guess NY just proved that to be true.

[anothersta]

This program will leave the homeless, homeless.

These are the kinds of things that happen when a government overspends. It affects EVERYONE.

Dont' kid yourself into thinking only the rich will pay for all of this spending. No one will come out unscathed.

[anothersta]

I was wondering and I've been digging around, but can't find any info about it.

How's bout those folks in the homeless shelters that AREN'T working? Do they work in the shelter to pull their weight, cover their rent?

Or do they just get a free ride while NY charges the poor single mother who's trying to better herself by working?

[dv8grl]

How's bout those folks in the homeless shelters that AREN'T working? Do they work in the shelter to pull their weight, cover their rent?

Or do they just get a free ride while NY charges the poor single mother who's trying to better herself by working?
Yup!
Just gives them incentive to never find a job & just live off the system.
Creating more mouths to feed.

[ahippiechic]

In most shelters here, if you're not employed you have to help out at the shelter, such as cleaning, serving meals etc.

[pepperpot]

$800/month in Manhattan and they group her in with "people who can afford to pay"?? It used to be a joke that "I make so little I can't afford to stay in a homeless shelter." I guess NY just proved that to be true.

Maybe the problem is, they shouldn't be living in Manhattan.....:shrug I heard they are hiring in Texas.....:agree.....probably a lower cost of living too.....

There are neighborhoods I'd like to live in too, but I can't afford it.....:shrug.....choice of neighborhoods to reside in doesn't only affect the homeless....it affects all of us......

[anothersta]

Yup!
Just gives them incentive to never find a job & just live off the system.
Creating more mouths to feed.

Not to mention, letting them live off of a single mother. That's outrageous! The rent would probably be cheaper if EVERYBODY was paying it.

In most shelters around here, they aren't required to work/volunteer to stay. They can if they want to, but it's optional and free.

[YankeeMary]

Maybe the problem is, they shouldn't be living in Manhattan.....:shrug I heard they are hiring in Texas.....:agree.....probably a lower cost of living too.....

There are neighborhoods I'd like to live in too, but I can't afford it.....:shrug.....choice of neighborhoods to reside in doesn't only affect the homeless....it affects all of us......

If one can't afford rent in a homeless shelter how could they possibly afford the move to Texas???

[pepperpot]

If one can't afford rent in a homeless shelter how could they possibly afford the move to Texas???

Just suggestions off the top of my head....

Texas is hiring.....let's just agree on that premise (or whatever part of the country).....

1) apply beforehand online for employment - free computers at the library

2) making $800 per month...airfare to almost anywhere in the U.S is less than $200

3) call a rent-a-car and agree to drive a car one way to the destination...sometimes they actually pay one to do so....

4) hitch hike....yes, it's illegal and potentially 'unsafe'....but shelters are often 'unsafe' (as well as the street) as well.....

5) bus ticket, train ticket......to destination

Once the person gets to the 'area' where there is employment....look for housing.....perhaps they may to stay a bit in that areas 'homeless' facilities.....

...but if a person keeps on doing the same thing, the same way at the same place.....do they really think anything will change for them?

No one said it would be easy.....but I think part of the problem is that people are not willing to compromise.....especially when it comes to where they chose to live (meaning general location/area)......or the types of jobs they are willing to acept.

Even wealthy or upper middle class and middle class will move their families and sell their home to follow employment positions......

I will concede that the economy is not what it was 1-2 years ago.....but there are places still hiring.....

again, no one said it was going to be easy......sometimes one must make it up as they go along........those that do, will survive and thrive....

[stresseater]

Simple... greyhound 69$ each way. If you can't afford to live where you are then you need to move to where you can afford to live. I would love to be able to live in Beverly Hills or Hawaii but I know I can't afford it so I stay here.

[anothersta]

Yup!
Just gives them incentive to never find a job & just live off the system.
Creating more mouths to feed.


Just suggestions off the top of my head....

Texas is hiring.....let's just agree on that premise (or whatever part of the country).....

1) apply beforehand online for employment - free computers at the library

2) making $800 per month...airfare to almost anywhere in the U.S is less than $200

3) call a rent-a-car and agree to drive a car one way to the destination...sometimes they actually pay one to do so....

4) hitch hike....yes, it's illegal and potentially 'unsafe'....but shelters are often 'unsafe' (as well as the street) as well.....

5) bus ticket, train ticket......to destination

Once the person gets to the 'area' where there is employment....look for housing.....perhaps they may to stay a bit in that areas 'homeless' facilities.....

...but if a person keeps on doing the same thing, the same way at the same place.....do they really think anything will change for them?

No one said it would be easy.....but I think part of the problem is that people are not willing to compromise.....especially when it comes to where they chose to live (meaning general location/area)......or the types of jobs they are willing to acept.

Even wealthy or upper middle class and middle class will move their families and sell their home to follow employment positions......

I will concede that the economy is not what it was 1-2 years ago.....but there are places still hiring.....

again, no one said it was going to be easy......sometimes one must make it up as they go along........those that do, will survive and thrive....

I tend to agree as I've always thought people should live within their means and be responsible for themselves. We are a country where you can make choices, a precious liberty. And you can go from rags to riches.

What I got out of the article is that overspending leads to dipping into everyone's pockets, including those at a homeless shelter. Remember, NY is one of the states raising taxes like nobody's business trying to raise capital for their entitlement programs.

We're getting a .5% tax cut next year up to 50,000. Woohoo!!!! I think our legislature fears us a bit, and we intend to keep it that way :)

[Unicornmom77]

Just suggestions off the top of my head....

Texas is hiring.....let's just agree on that premise (or whatever part of the country).....

1) apply beforehand online for employment - free computers at the library

2) making $800 per month...airfare to almost anywhere in the U.S is less than $200

3) call a rent-a-car and agree to drive a car one way to the destination...sometimes they actually pay one to do so....

4) hitch hike....yes, it's illegal and potentially 'unsafe'....but shelters are often 'unsafe' (as well as the street) as well.....

5) bus ticket, train ticket......to destination

Once the person gets to the 'area' where there is employment....look for housing.....perhaps they may to stay a bit in that areas 'homeless' facilities.....

...but if a person keeps on doing the same thing, the same way at the same place.....do they really think anything will change for them?

No one said it would be easy.....but I think part of the problem is that people are not willing to compromise.....especially when it comes to where they chose to live (meaning general location/area)......or the types of jobs they are willing to acept.

Even wealthy or upper middle class and middle class will move their families and sell their home to follow employment positions......

I will concede that the economy is not what it was 1-2 years ago.....but there are places still hiring.....

again, no one said it was going to be easy......sometimes one must make it up as they go along........those that do, will survive and thrive....

Have you ever been homeless?

I understand what you are saying but its not always just that easy, yeah plane tickets aren't all that expensive, but what about with a few kids? It adds up. Greyhound the same, sure $69 a person, single mom of two even and that's a bit more.

[anothersta]

Ya know, it occurred to me this evening, I was thinking about this. Do you think NYC is doing this to TRY to get the poor to move out so they don't have to support them?

[pepperpot]

Have you ever been homeless?

I understand what you are saying but its not always just that easy, yeah plane tickets aren't all that expensive, but what about with a few kids? It adds up. Greyhound the same, sure $69 a person, single mom of two even and that's a bit more.

:hmmmm: I think I may have said that at least twice in my post......and I did say that the suggestions are off the top of my head......I can be even more creative if I try......

One can even talk themselves out of changing their life and being self defeating before they even start....


yeah plane tickets aren't all that expensive, but what about with a few kids? It adds up. Greyhound the same, sure $69 a person, single mom of two even and that's a bit more.[/
.....but if one doesn't start somewhere, to do something, to change their circumstances....the only change they will see is one not for the better.....

I've never been homeless, but I sure as heck did (and do) worry how I was going to afford things, live within my budget and worked my behind off to make sure I won't be. Is there any guarantees? No, but I'm still trying to maintain. But the more my expenses go up and the more taxes coming out of my household.....I am getting closer.

Minimum wage in NYC is $7.15 p/h....to make $800 per month, that's working about 26 hours per week.....if that person is making minimum.

They used a single mother as an example.....assume the children are under 16.....what other programs are they receiving? WIC, food stamps, SS for the kids, child support, ?????, housing...all of that adds up, even if only in 'value'....so for all the services they receive, what's the comparable value for the person who is working and supporting their family and that is paying for each of these items out of a taxed paycheck?

For example.....if the children are in 'free' daycare....how much is the working person paying for that?

Health care......how much is the working person paying for theirs?, etc....

So when they say, she earns $800 per month, what are her expenses? Is that cash in hand? After a working person pays all their bills and responsibilities....at the end of the month....how much do they have 'cash in hand'?

No, it's not easy, it's not equal, it's not fair, no one wants to be in this position but getting oneself out of their hole is needed.....no problem with giving a helping hand to help them up, but just 'giving' to support the 'status quo' is no help at all for anyone......that makes matters worse.

Sure the economy stinks right now, but it didn't always and many of these people have been there for a long time........

Times are also different and one is seeing a different 'class' of people entering the situation.....partly why? because they have been supporting and burdened by maintaining the others for so long it caught up to them too......


ETA: I'm not sure that having the homeless pay for their housing is the answer either.....but something has to change.

[pepperpot]

Ya know, it occurred to me this evening, I was thinking about this. Do you think NYC is doing this to TRY to get the poor to move out so they don't have to support them?

Or to motivate them to do something different and not just 'sit' and exist.....'status quo'....

[YankeeMary]

Just suggestions off the top of my head....

Texas is hiring.....let's just agree on that premise (or whatever part of the country).....

1) apply beforehand online for employment - free computers at the library

2) making $800 per month...airfare to almost anywhere in the U.S is less than $200
3) call a rent-a-car and agree to drive a car one way to the destination...sometimes they actually pay one to do so....

4) hitch hike....yes, it's illegal and potentially 'unsafe'....but shelters are often 'unsafe' (as well as the street) as well.....

5) bus ticket, train ticket......to destination

Once the person gets to the 'area' where there is employment....look for housing.....perhaps they may to stay a bit in that areas 'homeless' facilities.....

...but if a person keeps on doing the same thing, the same way at the same place.....do they really think anything will change for them?

No one said it would be easy.....but I think part of the problem is that people are not willing to compromise.....especially when it comes to where they chose to live (meaning general location/area)......or the types of jobs they are willing to acept.

Even wealthy or upper middle class and middle class will move their families and sell their home to follow employment positions......

I will concede that the economy is not what it was 1-2 years ago.....but there are places still hiring.....

again, no one said it was going to be easy......sometimes one must make it up as they go along........those that do, will survive and thrive....

Please find me a ticket to WV from Ga. I have never been able to get those rates.


You know, no matter what anyone posts you are going to try your hardest to find a way for it to work. Until you are homeless then you can't possibly know. There are alot of homeless people that are mentally ill and are in serious need of help. They are unable to work to get money to fly halfway across the country. Most people are homeless not by choice. Thankfully, I have never been homeless and Pray I never am. The problem in this country isn't because of the homeless.

[YankeeMary]

Or to motivate them to do something different and not just 'sit' and exist.....'status quo'....

Again, there are alot of homeless people that are mentally ill, they don't need motivated they help. They can't get help because they can't afford it! Then if they are able to get help through a program, then they aren't able to afford their medications.

[pepperpot]

Please find me a ticket to WV from Ga. I have never been able to get those rates.


You know, no matter what anyone posts you are going to try your hardest to find a way for it to work. Until you are homeless then you can't possibly know. There are alot of homeless people that are mentally ill and are in serious need of help. They are unable to work to get money to fly halfway across the country. Most people are homeless not by choice. Thankfully, I have never been homeless and Pray I never am. The problem in this country isn't because of the homeless.

Yes, I do try hard to look for solutions....:agree...perhaps if more did, there'd be less problems....:shrug

And there are those who try their hardest using any excuse not to look and pursue a solution.....



City officials this month began charging rent to some families staying in homeless shelters.

The policy applies only to shelter residents who have income from jobs.



The NYC shelter 'rent' is being applied to "residents who have income"....

Those "unable to work" to get airfare aren't being charged rent.....

The mentally ill person probably isn't the person they are looking to charge rent to neither.....yes, they do need help.

Years back I recall stories of mental facilities opening up the doors and just letting people go....the homeless population soared.......

And no, it's not the homeless population that is the problem in this country (but it is a problem), but a large degree of the major problem is the way the system for assistance is set up. It encourages people to do less for themselves and rely more on 'programs'......burdening the working. It has created many who feel they are 'entitled' to what others have worked very hard for.

There are many reasons why people are homeless and there is no blanket solution for all. So one needs to implement changes to 'weed out' those who can get off the programs.....

The 'rent' at shelters...does not affect all....apparently just those with an income....if you have income, you need affordable housing, not a shelter (long term).

[ahippiechic]

If you live in a shelter and make 800 a month, you can buy a plane or bus ticket somewhere else for work and a cheaper cost of living. I can fly to TN for 210.00 (1 way) that's including tax and fees.

[pepperpot]

Please find me a ticket to WV from Ga. I have never been able to get those rates.



5:35 AM Depart Charleston (CRW)
Arrive Atlanta (Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Intl.) 8:39 AM Tue 9-Jun
Duration:3hr 4mn US Airways 2569 / 1945
Connect in Charlotte (CLT)

7:15 am Depart Atlanta (ATL)
Arrive Charleston (CRW) 10:40 am Wed 15-Jul
Duration:3hr 25mn US Airways 1800 / 2388
Connect in Charlotte (CLT)


Round trip : $210.00 + $39.40 taxes & fees = $249.40


Here's a one way.....I picked random WV & GA airports....
http://i41.tinypic.com/2w37tqa.jpg

If one wants to do it, there are ways......


ETA: Oops! I did WV to GA....just checked, same prices....either way...

[meltodd69]

I don't think they should really be charging anyone to live at a homeless shelter.

Just a thought if they must....
The money that is collected from each person goes into an account under the persons name. The money is then saved until there is enough for deposit and rent or even bus ticket if that's what they choose. And everyone should have to pay. Just because you are not working for a "paycheck" doesn't mean your not making money.
The shelter would then be helping the person instead of kicking them when they are down.

[pepperpot]

I don't think they should really be charging anyone to live at a homeless shelter.

Just a thought if they must....
The money that is collected from each person goes into an account under the persons name. The money is then saved until there is enough for deposit and rent or even bus ticket if that's what they choose. And everyone should have to pay. Just because you are not working for a "paycheck" doesn't mean your not making money.
The shelter would then be helping the person instead of kicking them when they are down.

Exactly.....I'm sure there's lots of cans & bottles with deposit returns and that's not documented. :shrug It may be a small amount, but it adds up.

But you are right........there are other options and ways to make it work.

My Aunt collected 'rent' from her teens when they got jobs.....not much.....she put it in an account for them and they were very surprised that when they 'moved out', she handed it back to them in a lump sum.....

[hotwheelstx]

I know some apts. here do the same thing for anyone wanting to move at a later date. I've never done it but have a friend who has. She was shocked what she had at the end of 2 years. Enough for a down payment on a new (used) car.

I know it works. However, I think there are way to many homeless that are mentally ill. If they're hospitalized, released, have nowhere to go how are they to take their meds.

I think most homeless people want to be a productive part of society. With circumstances that's not always how it turns out to be.

[pepperpot]

..... However, I think there are way to many homeless that are mentally ill. If they're hospitalized, released, have nowhere to go how are they to take their meds.

I think most homeless people want to be a productive part of society. With circumstances that's not always how it turns out to be.

This is true, but that's not the residents they are targeting with this plan. The mentally ill at shelters need a different plan....:agree


During the current decade the number of homeless families and the total homeless shelter population have increased dramatically in New York City. At the start of the decade, there were 5,000 homeless families in shelter each night and the total homeless shelter population was 22,800 people. At the end of November there were 9,720 families in municipal shelters and the total homeless shelter population was an estimated 36,655 people.
http://www.coalitionforthehomeless.org/blog/2009/01/number-of-nyc-homeless-families-hits.html
Per the OP.....

The city says it is only charging people who can afford to pay.

About 2,000 families are expected to be covered by the new rule.

[pepperpot]

Ya know, it occurred to me this evening, I was thinking about this. Do you think NYC is doing this to TRY to get the poor to move out so they don't have to support them?

You kinda hit the nail on the head......

If with this new rule, the person now says, "If they want to charge me to live in this dump (the shelter), I might as well go pay to live elsewhere." :agree

Isn't that what they should be doing in the first place? :shrug

:lol

[YankeeMary]

Here's a one way.....I picked random WV & GA airports....
http://i41.tinypic.com/2w37tqa.jpg

If one wants to do it, there are ways......


ETA: Oops! I did WV to GA....just checked, same prices....either way...

I want to fly out of Ga (Hartsford) to Parkersburg, Wv. Could you do it again please. Or tell me which site you used? Thanks. The last time we checked it was over $700 to fly to WV.

[whatever]

this is stupid! they might as well be on welfare! At least they are TRYING to get ahead. I could see giving them a time limit on how LONG they can stay. Cause if you have a job you can start saving to move out. And they could be charging a small fee per week. But HALF of earnings. How in the eff are they ever gonna save to move out. So then if they can't move out theres not going to be openings for the next person. Um whose logic was this? I mean REALLY? They didn't put much thinking effort into it. I don't really see how thats fair to those that don't work. Because there is no way they are earning up to (ex:) $500 month working at the shelter when you have many people living there, working.

[pepperpot]

I want to fly out of Ga (Hartsford) to Parkersburg, Wv. Could you do it again please. Or tell me which site you used? Thanks. The last time we checked it was over $700 to fly to WV.
One Way.......
http://i39.tinypic.com/2n85vfn.jpg

Round Trip:
http://i40.tinypic.com/2zz71o2.jpg

This was on Expedia.com ....for the cheaper rates, it's suggested to fly certain days of the week (mid-week) and using connecting flights (stops, not direct)....so if you're not in a rush and can be flexible, the plane fares come down.....good luck.

[ahippiechic]

I use Orbtiz and the rates are about the same.

[anothersta]

I'll tell ya' what, let's just make it easy. My DH gets frequent flyer miles cause he travels sometimes for work. We'll donate enough to this gal to send her anywhere in the US that she wants to go, for FREE.

Now, that's a plan! :)

[anothersta]

We've also got Hilton points she can use, those are pretty much crap for us since we don't go on vacation or anything. We've got enough for a 3 day stay in a Hilton hotel. That will give her enough time to find a homeless shelter when she lands.

She can't have my priority points. I get 100 GC's for Lowes with those :) But, I will toss in the 10.00 Walmart GC I just got from Mypoints, cause I'm a nice gal.

[YankeeMary]

I'll tell ya' what, let's just make it easy. My DH gets frequent flyer miles cause he travels sometimes for work. We'll donate enough to this gal to send her anywhere in the US that she wants to go, for FREE.

Now, that's a plan! :)

What gal are you talking about??? LOL I am confussed. (I hope you don't mean me. haha.)

[anothersta]

What gal are you talking about??? LOL I am confussed. (I hope you don't mean me. haha.)

I'm talking about the homeless gal in the article who's getting charged 336 out of the 800 she makes as a cashier.

When I saw youall going over the plane ticket prices, I thought I might make is easier :)

[YankeeMary]

I'm talking about the homeless gal in the article who's getting charged 336 out of the 800 she makes as a cashier.

When I saw youall going over the plane ticket prices, I thought I might make is easier :)

Thanks for clarifing for me...lol. I get lost way to easily.:star: