Need advice on a situation with my ex

[diana_circe]

In July of 2006 my ex decided that it was in his best interest to sign away rights to my kids and have Mike adopt them. We jumped at the chance, it wasn't anything we ever thought my ex would do, but he got remarried and had another child and he said it was too much for him just paying child support, let alone having to pay 50% of their medical bills since the boys have so many issues.

After the adoption he called every few weeks, took them overnight once a month or so, then the calls and visits pretty much stopped. March of 2007 was Holli's 16th birthday and he came for her party, then barely spoke to the kids until the end of July and beginning of August for the boys' birthdays. Not one call until the end of October/beginning of November. He left a message and when the kids tried to call him there was no answer and he's not called back since. Not one word from him over Christmas, or the kids' birthdays. Holli got an occasional email from him, but he sent one that really upset her because it was bashing Mike and I for not letting him see the kids and she knows there been no attempt at that from him since the end of last year, so she quit emailing him back.

Today I got this email from him.
(his email)
Jen and Mike,
I was wondering why my email's have never been answered or my phone calls too for that matter. Am I no longer allowed to speak to the kids or what? Just wondering because I've called and left messages and sent emails. I haven't see them for nearly 2 years or was that the plan the whole time?
(end)

I am so mad at this. I've run into his friends in various places and had conversations ranging from them telling me what a ***** I was for not allowing him to see his own kids to others asking me if it was true that he calls all the time asking to see the kids and we refuse to let him.

Part of me wants to blow up at him, part of me wants to ignore him. This is what I've started replying to him, and I'm going to talk to Mike too, but wanted to know what you all thought.

(my email)
Since you haven't called since last October or November, I can't imagine what messages you might have left. There's never been one on the phone since then and the called ID never showed that you've called. And it was August of 2007 the last time you bothered seeing the kids, Matthew's birthday to be exact, so its hardly been two years. Although I'm sure that's what you are telling your friends so they feel bad for you. I'm really sick of hearing the stray comment about how we refuse to let you see the kids when I happen to find someone who knows you. Some are very kind and ask if its true, some are accusing. Its sad really Wil.

I know Holli got an email from you over the summer that upset her a great deal, and I received an email from you around Thanksgiving, but haven't replied yet because I really don't know what to say to you. The boys want to see you and Holli wants to see Abigail. But I've seen you step into these kids' lives and play superdad for a weekend or a couple weeks and then disappear into your own life until your guilt strings start tugging again, and honestly, its too much for the boys...
(end)

That's all I have so far. And I really don't know if I should even bother sending it because no matter what I say its going to turn into a big fight. The ***** in me just wants to email back and simply say "yep, that was the plan." But it never was. He was so inconsistent before signing away his rights that we weren't surprised when he pretty much disappeared. But its always been very important, especially to me in light of my relationship with my blood father, that my kids know where they come from. We even had their last names hyphenated in the adoption proceeding, rather than just completely changed to our last name.

So thoughts, input, comments?

[kabcrisp]

JMHO.

It seems he's trying to create a paper trail. Something he can say he sent to you and you never replied which may in fact backup his claims that you aren't resopnding to him.

I think your reply is cordial and very honest about dates/timelines and his skewed view of things.

I'd send it. . . Worse case scenario is that if he tries to pull something you have where you responded kindly and with facts about his involvement with his kids.

I wish you good luck. . .I also have an ex who is often forgetful of how things really go down and needs reminding often.

[vicky122]

He gave up his right and did not want to support his kids and only comes around when he wants and now trying to make you guys look like the bad guys when your d/h stepped up to the plate taking care of his kids?? Your letter sounds good and I wouldn't worry about what people say because he is the one that showed just how much he really cared when he gave up his right as a father to another man.

[diana_circe]

I don't know why he would want to create a paper trail. The adoption is final, it has been since the court date in July 2006. The judge specifically said no six month waiting period, it was final that day. He and his wife, Mike, me and the kids were all in court that day.

He's a very manipulative man. When I first kicked him out (tired of the cheating and lying) every time I did something he didn't like he would threaten to take my kids. A friend suggested I call the women's shelter and talk to them about counseling for myself and the kids and to see if they could offer legal help or advise. The counselor was wonderful, helped me see that he was emotionally abusive and controlling and helped me learn to stand up to him. But he occasionally gets bored, or something, and tries to stir the "you know what".

[Anniston]

Oh, that is a tough situation to be in. Kudos to your hubby for being a good dad! I think you should reply, but I would leave out this part: I'm really sick of hearing the stray comment about how we refuse to let you see the kids when I happen to find someone who knows you. Some are very kind and ask if its true, some are accusing.

I say that because he would probably be thrilled to know that his lies to friends have led to your discomfort.

Good luck to you.

[pepperpot]

If he's manipulative, send it and just state facts........ask directly how & when he left messages.....leave your own paper trail......who knows what he's up to, but just keep making sure the 'record stays straight' with your 'facts' of 'attempted contact' and 'lack of contact' (especially holidays & birthdays, etc.)...:agree

Good luck, it's a rough spot :hug

[Jackie_Blu]

He gave up his right and did not want to support his kids and only comes around when he wants and now trying to make you guys look like the bad guys when your d/h stepped up to the plate taking care of his kids?? Your letter sounds good and I wouldn't worry about what people say because he is the one that showed just how much he really cared when he gave up his right as a father to another man.

ITA

Sounds to me as though you've done everything you could that was right, Jen. He's an ass (I have an ex just like that). He's only hurting the kids and its a shame he's not mature enough to see that. Your letter sounds good, I would send it.

[Kelsey1224]

The reply is totally cordial. I might want to fill it in with the various dates you noted in the beginning of your post.

I would then ask him what "plan" he was talking about. I would remind him that it was HIS idea to sign away his rights to the children. And, while you and Mike did jump at the opportunity, it was HE who instigated the entire process.

[diana_circe]

Kelsey, that isn't entirely true, I was the one that suggested he sign over rights. But only after a long, heated discussion about how he couldn't afford to pay 50% of the kids medical bills. I offered several options. I offered to save their medical receipts and him paying once a year when he got his taxes, to which he said his taxes had to go for his property taxes. I then offered to let him just cover his part of the medical bills themselves while we covered the medication, which was the most expensive part, and he said he still couldn't afford that. The whole time he was whining about how just paying his child support made it hard on him and his new family and I said he could sign over rights. He told me he and his wife had discussed that, but didn't think we'd go for it. So, while he had already had that idea in his head, I was the one that instigated it. But on my own behalf, it was never mentioned again until February or March when he told me he found a lawyer that would handle the whole thing for $500 from each of us.

[Kelsey1224]

Kelsey, that isn't entirely true, I was the one that suggested he sign over rights. But only after a long, heated discussion about how he couldn't afford to pay 50% of the kids medical bills. I offered several options. I offered to save their medical receipts and him paying once a year when he got his taxes, to which he said his taxes had to go for his property taxes. I then offered to let him just cover his part of the medical bills themselves while we covered the medication, which was the most expensive part, and he said he still couldn't afford that. The whole time he was whining about how just paying his child support made it hard on him and his new family and I said he could sign over rights. He told me he and his wife had discussed that, but didn't think we'd go for it. So, while he had already had that idea in his head, I was the one that instigated it. But on my own behalf, it was never mentioned again until February or March when he told me he found a lawyer that would handle the whole thing for $500 from each of us.

Okay...thanks for the clarification. Regardless...he still willingly forfeited his rights.

I would then say, "What plan? The one where you have no financial or legal responsibility for the kids, yet can enjoy the privileges of parenthood...when you make time in your busy life?"

[meltodd69]

Sounds to me like he had a plan of his own. Giving up your parental rights? WTH!! I could never do that. Sounds to me like he didn't want to pay his support so he signed away his rights. But he forgot that he was signing away his rights, or maybe he thought he was "special" and that meant he just didn't have to pay anymore but he still keeps all the other rights of being a parent. What an Arse!!
Under the law you can treat him like a perfect stranger, and I would. That is what he is to your children. Your hubby IS THIER FATHER! How does he feel about this? Your hubby is the one that is there everynight. He is the one that provides finacially and emotionally for your children, he is thier father and dad. He is there for the good times and bad.
I can understand you wanting the kids to know where they came from, my sons dad was adopted and doesn't know where he came from. I tried to get him to look, just for medical reasons if nothing else. But he doesn't want to know. His mom and dad are his real parents in his eyes.
I myself wouldn't let him see them. When they turn 18 they can if they want. But why cause them more heartache. He just wants to play mind games, and I would be protecting my children from him. So what if he feels guilty. He should have thought about that before standing infront of the judge saying he wanted nothing to do with them. He made his choice! I would make him live with it. And calling you names, and running his mouth off to people HAHA! When it comes to our children we do what we have to in order to protect them. So if us women are B's because of it, SO WHAT! Someone has to protect them, he wasn't going to.
Give your DH a big hug and tell him Thank-You for being such a good man and father. Anyone can be a sperm donor, but it takes a real man to be a Dad!
JMO's but I have no simpathy for anyone that signs away thier parental rights. He made his choice when he stood there in court. I would make him live with it. He could have continued to pay support and had nothing to do with them, happens all the time. But IMO he just didn't want to part with his paycheck. I am sure that hurt your children. It had to. And now he wants to hurt them some more. Not on my watch he wouldn't!
Good Luck with your choice. I would ignore the Arse, and when someone says he doesn't get to see his children, I would remind them that he has no children, at least not with you. Your kids see thier dad everyday. He lives there and takes care of all of you, that's what Dad's do.

[ElleGee]

He gave up his rights... It was HIS idea.. Who cares if he is trying to create a paper trail. Doesn't matter if he is or isn't

You do not HAVE to let those kids see him. IMHO he threw away his children because of money.. What a Dbag.

Tell him to eff off... You shouldn't care if he want to fight you and manipulate he situation... YOU caused the situation the day you let him take those kids on visits. Your kids are confused b/c they are adopted by a GOOD man yet you let sperm donor see them still.. It's not right nor fair.. He had no rights the day the judge hit the gavel.


Tell him to eff off then get a restraining order.. He is NOT thier father anymore.. Mike IS.

[diana_circe]

Ellen, Mike is the most awesomeamazingfantastic man. He is 7 years younger than me and moved in knowing he was taking on three kids from my previous marriage. He was not quite 21 and I was not quite 28 when we got together. The day I knew he was a keeper was about two months after he moved in and blew a gasket because of something that happened to Matthew. His comment to the other child's parent was "I don't care if boys will be boys, they aren't being boys with MY SON!"

I called Mike at work to discuss this with him and he called my ex. My ex was full of excuses and actually made the comment that he was calling a number one number off of ours and he thought it was weird that an automated answering machine picked up. Mike repeated asked what his email to Holli said that upset her so much, but he skirted that issue. Mike then told him that the kids were on Christmas break, come take them for the night and my ex made a bundle of excuses and asked Mike to call him later so they could work out a time for him to see the kids in a couple of weeks. Don't think that call will be made.

I'm proud of Mike, he is much better than me at keeping a cool head when he's pissed. My ex definitely didn't expect a confrontation from Mike. Mike has been the kids' dad from the moment he moved in, but every time something like this happens I'm reminded why it is that he deserves to be my kids' dad and not my ex.

[vicky122]

Ellen, Mike is the most awesomeamazingfantastic man. He is 7 years younger than me and moved in knowing he was taking on three kids from my previous marriage. He was not quite 21 and I was not quite 28 when we got together. The day I knew he was a keeper was about two months after he moved in and blew a gasket because of something that happened to Matthew. His comment to the other child's parent was "I don't care if boys will be boys, they aren't being boys with MY SON!"

I called Mike at work to discuss this with him and he called my ex. My ex was full of excuses and actually made the comment that he was calling a number one number off of ours and he thought it was weird that an automated answering machine picked up. Mike repeated asked what his email to Holli said that upset her so much, but he skirted that issue. Mike then told him that the kids were on Christmas break, come take them for the night and my ex made a bundle of excuses and asked Mike to call him later so they could work out a time for him to see the kids in a couple of weeks. Don't think that call will be made.

I'm proud of Mike, he is much better than me at keeping a cool head when he's pissed. My ex definitely didn't expect a confrontation from Mike. Mike has been the kids' dad from the moment he moved in, but every time something like this happens I'm reminded why it is that he deserves to be my kids' dad and not my ex.

You know they say it is not the one who plants the seeds but the one who waters them! And it sounds like that is what your d/h is doing.

[Njean31]

i would not worry for one sec over anything he does or says. he gave up his parental rights. he's worthless. i wouldn't even respond to him.

[pepperpot]

i would not worry for one sec over anything he does or says. he gave up his parental rights. he's worthless. i wouldn't even respond to him.

See, she already said he's manipulative. I think her best course of action is to keep the record straight and respond calmly and factually to his accusations. Let the children see......(age appropriate)...that she was cooperative and willing to work with their bio dad. It wouldn't be good for him years later to enter the children's life and say, "It was your mother that kept me away" :nono If she 'ignored' him, they might actually believe his manipulations.....

If there were no children involved, I'd tell him to go back under the rock he crawled out from.....

[Njean31]

It wouldn't be good for him years later to enter the children's life and say, "It was your mother that kept me away" :nono If she 'ignored' him, they might actually believe his manipulations.....


hopefully the children will realize what pond scum he is by signing his rights away and letting another man adopt them. HE did that, that's as low as you can get. it wouldn't matter what he said she said, did, or didn't do. that's the bottom line.

[pepperpot]

hopefully the children will realize what pond scum he is by signing his rights away and letting another man adopt them. HE did that, that's as low as you can get. it wouldn't matter what he said she said, did, or didn't do. that's the bottom line.

I agree, but if she is not 'cooperative' and ignores him and 'cuts him out....that opens to door for him to be manipulative..... Children are not always logical.....he will always be their bio dad....he's manipulative...the kids must see that it is his choice at not being involved, not that 'he wasn't allowed'.....he can twist that if she 'ignores him'.....and she shouldn't 'bad mouth him' (not saying that she is) however, she should let them see and come to the conclusion themselves..that he is 'pond scum'.....

[Njean31]

I agree, but if she is not 'cooperative' and ignores him and 'cuts him out....that opens to door for him to be manipulative..... Children are not always logical.....he will always be their bio dad....he's manipulative...the kids must see that it is his choice at not being involved, not that 'he wasn't allowed'.....he can twist that if she 'ignores him'.....and she shouldn't 'bad mouth him' (not saying that she is) however, she should let them see and come to the conclusion themselves..that he is 'pond scum'.....

i see your point. and how could they not come to that conclusion? it's the only logical one. i'd be too ashamed to even face my children after doing that just to get out of paying child support. he don't deserve the children's attention or even the new child's attention. he is no true father.

[janelle]

If you don't know what made your daughter upset with her father it may be best to keep it that way. Your daughter's choice after all---she could have told you. She wants to keep it between herself and her father. Doesn't get messy that way.

The guy can sign away anything but he will always be the father and the kids know that. That is a hole in their life and even a wonderful step-father won't mend it. For the children's sake try to be civil with him and don't start a war.

Is there a way his messages are not getting through---erased accidentally or otherwise? Believe what he says until it is proven wrong. Just tell him he may have called or emailed but it didn't come through----true on your part.

Can you set up a time for him to see or email the kids and then they can expect him to call, etc. THEN, if he doesn't follow through it's on him. If everyone knows the times then there will be no---he said, she said thing going on.

The kids don't need to know who pays for what---they don't need to be in the middle. I do think if your ex pays for some of the kids things it would be best though. He will still feel he is part of their lives---this has been proven when it comes to child support. The dads who pay support AND ALSO GET TO SEE THE KIDS do much better than those who are left out of everything. Actually, the kids should have a visitation schedule to go be with him for weekends, etc.

There should have been a schedule and it should have been set in stone from the beginning. Kids like a familiar routine.

Hope you can get things worked out and tell your friends you are all working on it if they say anything. It's really none of their business. Hugs.

[cinnamonch]

Am I the most confused person here? If I am understanding correctly:

1) your ex signed away his parental rights and your current Dh adopted them?
2) your ex pays nothing toward the support of children right?

If that is the case, their dad is not the ex but your DH. You are under no obligation to let him come get them or respond to any emails or phone calls he makes. I wouldn't go out of my way to accomodate him. If he calls and wants to make arrangements to see the kids, make sure he tells them himself when he is coming so that he cannot come back on you say that you gave them the wrong information.

For myself, I wouldn't volunteer any information about the kids and what they are doing as far as school or anything else. If he wants to know and if he REALLY cares about them as he pretends to want them to believe, then he will go through whatever hoops to find out and be there.

You might want to have a talk with the oldest and see what her feelings are. If she wants to be around him or not. Do not force her to go if she doesnt want to and she should be the one to tell him and tell him why.

[atprm]

um, if he signed away his rights to the children, those children are no longer his, and he has NO right to demand seeing them.

If he wanted to see the kids, he should have remained their parent and PAID THE BILLS...

what it sounds like is that he wants to see the kids but not pay for the kids...

WRONGO!!

I would flat out deny him the right to see the children or speak to the children, until the children are 18 years old and then THEY can decide!!!

It also sounds like you and your dh are being treated as a welcome mat...again...WRONGO!!

[janelle]

Sometimes kids get things wrong though and understand things differently than what it meant. My SS would hear what he wanted to hear about things since he wanted to have things be nice, the way he wanted them to be.

The adults need to make the schedule around the kids school schedule and activities. Plus no making activities come at the same time as visitation----I've seen that happen as well.

Adults need to be the grown ups for the sake of the kids. No dividing and conquering----the kids do enough of that on their own to get their own way, even in families who are together.

[janelle]

um, if he signed away his rights to the children, those children are no longer his, and he has NO right to demand seeing them.

If he wanted to see the kids, he should have remained their parent and PAID THE BILLS...

what it sounds like is that he wants to see the kids but not pay for the kids...

WRONGO!!

I would flat out deny him the right to see the children or speak to the children, until the children are 18 years old and then THEY can decide!!!

It also sounds like you and your dh are being treated as a welcome mat...again...WRONGO!!

WOW, believe me, this only punishes the kids. Children are not property so don't treat them that way or they will end up in a counselor's office for years.

[cinnamonch]

WOW, believe me, this only punishes the kids. Children are not property so don't treat them that way or they will end up in a counselor's office for years.

The way things are going now, they will end up there as well. Some rules/laws need to be laid down and it doesnt include making things easy for him. Like I said before, he can have their schedule of activities, if he comes he comes, if he doesn't that's his issue.

The OP and her DH need to quit jumping through hoops because of this selfish piece of mankind.

[atprm]

WOW, believe me, this only punishes the kids. Children are not property so don't treat them that way or they will end up in a counselor's office for years.

I disagree...

lets say someone you know adopts children, because the parents can't afford them... do you want them interfering in their life whenever THEY want to?

I think not! That does all the harm right there!

The only reason, it seems that this guy gave up his rights was because he didn't want to pay child support!!!


Which is CRAP!!

Since he gave up his right to those children, and doesn't have to pay support, he shouldn't be given the chance to be a part of their life either! The kids can look for him when they are legal adults!

In the meantime, the adoptive Father and Mom make the life for their children...instead of being a welcome mat.

[janelle]

I agree with both of you. They shouldn't jump through hoops but they can have a schedule, even if it is one day a month---year? for the kids sake.

Also, not letting kids ever see the parent only works when they are adopted as babies and have never seen the mom or dad. These kids had a relationship with him and know he is out there so why pretend he doesn't exist? They will think you are the mean one to keep him away. If they know you made an attempt to keep him in their lives then they will know who did what.

[LitWtch]

I agree with atprm - he voluntarily signed them for adoption. He is no longer anything to the children except a sperm donor BY HIS CHOICE.

That being said, you should reply along the lines of:

"I'm sorry it has been difficult for you to contact the children - if you lost their emails/phone numbers, I will certainly supply them for you. After all, they haven't changed since the last time you tried to contact them. They do miss having contact with you, and have wondered why you have not called."

I would somehow point out that any further communications will be monitored by the lawyers, as Mike is now, and has been their legal father since (insert appropriate date).


He needs reminded that HE gave up his responsibilities to benefit HIM. Don't let him turn things on you and Mike, or even the children. He knew all along how to contact them, and you have been generous to ALLOW him to have that privilage when he so selfishly gave them up for HIS financial gain.

If you wish to permit him contact, talk it all over with Mike first, then come to an agreement. After that has been done, talk with the children and lay it on the line. give them the boundries, and then discuss it with him last. If he cannot agree to yours and Mike's terms, then he is SOL.

[LitWtch]

I must also point out that, after reading another post, Mike could have had insurance on the children as well even if they were step children - that would have alleviated half of his half of medical bills. He had a plan to NOT pay for the responsibilites he assisted creating. He could have found a way if he really wanted to... he chose not to, and thus is a poor excuse for a man - and then to try and make you look bad in the community? Oh Hell No!

[janelle]

That is good advice as well but for heaven's sake leave the lawyers OUT. You don't know grief until they get involved. Some are good but so many are just shysters. It's to their advantage to keep the fight going. They get paid. Duh.

[LitWtch]

The lawyers don't need be involved, just informed. They can also offer some great solutions to stop or control this sort of thing from happening again. If they come to an agreement, it will have to be filed with the lawyers to be upheld in court if that is what ends up happening.

[diana_circe]

LitWitch, I appreciate your input, but there really is no call for lawyers, even in an advisory capacity. As the adoption is well past final we either allow him to see the kids or we don't. Mike and I discussed it all at length and we won't ever try to stop him from seeing the kids, but it has to be what the kids want and according to Matt and Holli, they really don't tho they do want to see their sister. There is no agreement to come to, he has no legal rights and that was made very clear to him in the adoption hearing. The judge told him straight out he had no rights to see, or even speak to, the kids and if we allowed him to after he gave up his rights he was very lucky.

And Mike did have insurance on the kids, my ex never did, even tho it was in the divorce decree that he was to carry. Before I went to work full-time they had state medical, and Mike had primary on us all. Once I went back to work full-time we made too much to have them on the state medical. Even with co-pays we were forking out about $500 a month, sometimes more, between medications, pediatrician, neurology appts, counseling, etc. But the medical expenses were just the straw that broke the camel's back. His big gripe was the $600 a month he was paying in child support. As he made more than enough to pay that amount and live comfortably in the manner he was accustomed, and I was a stay at home mom for the duration of our marriage the state refused to lower the amount. I truly believe that had I never brought it up he would have suggested it, he pointedly said that he and his wife had talked about him giving up his rights.

He is just a jerk and I'm sure this all stems from his mother griping on him about not seeing the kids. Or maybe she was *****ing about me not sending her the kids school pics, even tho I told her we weren't able to afford buying the school pics this year. Who knows what the push was. I just know that Mike handled it very well in my opinion.

And by the way, we called the number he claimed to be calling. Mike said it rang about 10 times and as he was getting ready to hang up some guy answered "WHAT!" :lol

[diana_circe]

One thing I want to make clear. We have never, nor will we ever, refuse to let my kids see their father. They choose not to contact him, especially Holli. The boys would see him if he showed up, Holli would be cordial because its not in her to be hurtful to anyone whether they deserved it or not. But Matt told us today that he's mad at his bio father and really doesn't want to see him. No matter what my ex wants, I will not make my kids see him if they don't want to. Like I said, they were present for the adoption hearing, Holli was 15 and Matt was 13, they knew what was going on. And the judge spoke to them privately and asked if they understood what the hearing was for.

And we do actually know what was in the email he sent her that upset her so much, she showed the email to us. In a nut shell he told her it was all our fautl that he doesn't see them.

I do not believe he has tried to call. I do not believe that he has tried to email.

I also will not set up a schedule with him, and he doesn't pay for one single thing my kids want, need or otherwise. I really do try to be the bigger man, I have never bashed my ex in front of my kids, we have

[vicky122]

There is nothing with what you both are doing. The man could walk up to the door and knock if he was having such a hard time getting a hold of you. The kids see he doesn't want to spend time with them. They are going to grow up knowing that he just signed over his rights so he could have his new wife and baby. He wants to play daddy as long as it is free and when ever the time frame fits him. If he missed the kids so much why didn't he jump at the chance to get them instead of saying in a couple of weeks?

[LitWtch]

Tough situation all around. You are doing the right thing by having the children who are old enough make decisions for themselves. Next time he decides to rear his ugly head towards you or your friends in the community, tell him that the children are calling the shots and you are only supporting their decisions.

[ElleGee]

One thing I want to make clear. We have never, nor will we ever, refuse to let my kids see their father.

And their in lies your problem.... I mean it's obviously an issue if you're bringing it up here for opinions..

I think it is totally wrong for you to let those kids see their sperm donor.. As a parent of minor children YOU and the man that adopted those kids are doing more harm than good IMHO..

The man threw his kids away and you still allow him to see them? What the eff for? He is only going to pull the same crap that he is pulling now and it is NOT good for those kids. Period. I think you are totally wrong for letting that man into their lives after he threw them away..

You obviously are going to let those poor kids get psychologically damaged by a man that wants his cake and eat it too.. And I think it's wrong and ridiculous..

Anyway I am done, They aren't my kids so I can hit the back button if I want to but holy cow woman.....

[baragabrat]

Although my ex abandoned my oldest 2 when they were toddlers (1970) and never had anything to do with thereafter, when he died in 1981, my daughter was greatly saddened. It bothered her ALOT! She didn't know him and he didn't know her. But she had questions! That only HE could answer.

Although I don't condone any "rights" he may think he has, you may not want to close the door too tightly. For your kids' sakes, definitely not his.

[diana_circe]

And their in lies your problem.... I mean it's obviously an issue if you're bringing it up here for opinions..

I think it is totally wrong for you to let those kids see their sperm donor.. As a parent of minor children YOU and the man that adopted those kids are doing more harm than good IMHO..

The man threw his kids away and you still allow him to see them? What the eff for? He is only going to pull the same crap that he is pulling now and it is NOT good for those kids. Period. I think you are totally wrong for letting that man into their lives after he threw them away..

You obviously are going to let those poor kids get psychologically damaged by a man that wants his cake and eat it too.. And I think it's wrong and ridiculous..

Anyway I am done, They aren't my kids so I can hit the back button if I want to but holy cow woman.....

Ellen, if they wanted to see him, I would allow it. He makes no effort and the kids don't want to see him and he hasn't seen them for over a year. I wouldn't bow to his wishes, but if my kids wanted to contact him I would never tell them they couldn't. I think I would have a totally different take on it if they had been younger when Mike adopted them. But they knew who their bio father was, had grown up with him.

Its not like letting them play with matches, although I am aware that its potentially hurtful. But in this case, if I didn't let them make their own decisions I would be the wrong one.

At this point they don't want to see him. Evan doesn't have an opinion on it, he's in his own world, but Matt and Holli have both said they don't want to see him. And honestly, now that the holiday is over and his mom isn't there whining about what a lousy dad he is, we won't hear from him again until Holli's birthday when he emails her to tell her happy birthday and whine at her some more.

[ElleGee]

Ellen, if they wanted to see him, I would allow it. He makes no effort and the kids don't want to see him and he hasn't seen them for over a year. I wouldn't bow to his wishes, but if my kids wanted to contact him I would never tell them they couldn't. I think I would have a totally different take on it if they had been younger when Mike adopted them. But they knew who their bio father was, had grown up with him.

Its not like letting them play with matches, although I am aware that its potentially hurtful. But in this case, if I didn't let them make their own decisions I would be the wrong one.

At this point they don't want to see him. Evan doesn't have an opinion on it, he's in his own world, but Matt and Holli have both said they don't want to see him. And honestly, now that the holiday is over and his mom isn't there whining about what a lousy dad he is, we won't hear from him again until Holli's birthday when he emails her to tell her happy birthday and whine at her some more.

Well I am glad the kids are smart enough to see through his bs... I mean what kind of example is he trying to set for them anyway?

It wouldn't make you the wrong one, btw, no matter who is telling you that you are or even if you feel you are.. You weren't the one who signed their rights away. It wasn't your idea He did and it was his. He is the wrong one. Not you.

You'd be doing those kids a favor by saying 'no'.. it's jmo

But opinions are like *you know whats* and everyone has them :)

[msmom79]

Am I the most confused person here? If I am understanding correctly:

1) your ex signed away his parental rights and your current Dh adopted them?
2) your ex pays nothing toward the support of children right?

If that is the case, their dad is not the ex but your DH. You are under no obligation to let him come get them or respond to any emails or phone calls he makes. I wouldn't go out of my way to accomodate him. If he calls and wants to make arrangements to see the kids, make sure he tells them himself when he is coming so that he cannot come back on you say that you gave them the wrong information.

For myself, I wouldn't volunteer any information about the kids and what they are doing as far as school or anything else. If he wants to know and if he REALLY cares about them as he pretends to want them to believe, then he will go through whatever hoops to find out and be there.

You might want to have a talk with the oldest and see what her feelings are. If she wants to be around him or not. Do not force her to go if she doesnt want to and she should be the one to tell him and tell him why.

ITA-HE GAVE UP ALL RIGHTS TO THE KIDS-WHICH BY THE COURTS SAYS-YOU DONT HAVE TO LET THE KIDS SEE HIM-PHONE HIM-EMAIL HIM-NOTHING! LET HIM TELL PEOPLE WHATEVER HE WANTS-IT DONT MATTER-CAUSE PEOPLE LOVE TO STIR CHIT,DONT FEED INTO TO IT,JUST LET IT GO.DONT EMAIL,CALL,WRITE,PHONE HIM AT ALL,UNLESS TS FOR MEDICAL REASONS---GOSH I DONT UNDERSTAND,WHY YOU THINK HE HAS RIGHTS TO THE KIDS--HE DOESNT DESERVE TIME WITH THEM AT ALL-HE GAVE THAT UP-YOU HAVE A GREAT MAN,THAT TOOK ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE KIDS-JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT!!!! THE KIDS CAN DECIDED TO SEE THEIR BIO DAD,WHEN THEY ARE 18,IF THEY CHOOSE TOO.JMHO

[diana_circe]

No one has really told me that I'd be wrong, it just feels wrong. I grew up with my blood father not wanting to see me, being raised by my step-dad. My step-dad was a severe alcoholic and my mom bashed him to no end. My sister hated my mom for years and years because of all the bad mouthing. She was too young to remember my dad's drunken rages and the abuse, and by the time he sobered up she was young enough to think daddy did no wrong and old enough to really resent my mom.

I know its a totally different situation, and I know we would be totally justified in any refusal. But in my heart I feel we can refuse him, but not them.

I'm glad they're old enough too. It makes it easier because the want isn't there.

[janelle]

Diana you are doing the right thing. I can see how kids who have had a not so good father turned out. My hubby's nieces' father was an alcoholic but their mother let them see him is they wanted to, plus he had a wonderful mother who loved the kids and they loved her. Not seeing their father would have ruined their relationship with their dear grandmother.

They had four girls and they all were able to see their father if they wanted to unless he was drunk. It was monitered. The guy was just a loser, had nothing his whole life and the girls even had to pay for his funeral since his mother had died. A sad situation but they dealt with it and learned from it.

They are good girls but one did go off track and looked for love from the wrong men. The other three are well adjusted and in happy marriages. It's a crap shoot with kids but you do your best and hope for the best. Kids need to learn how to deal with life, even the bad part.

I know you want them to not be influenced by it all but they will, no getting around it. You have been there so you know. Just do your best. I trust your instincts and I know you trust what you decide will be for their best interest.

They know how much their father can give and how much he is incapable of giving. They will come to terms with it. They have you and a wonderful step-father like these four girls had so they will be ok. Hugs.

[Kelsey1224]

Diana you are doing the right thing.

I know you want them to not be influenced by it all but they will, no getting around it. You have been there so you know. Just do your best. I trust your instincts and I know you trust what you decide will be for their best interest.

They know how much their father can give and how much he is incapable of giving. They will come to terms with it. They have you and a wonderful step-father like these four girls had so they will be ok. Hugs.

Wise words.

I just wanted to say one other thing. Do NOT let him pull the "Well...they could have called me card." My father tried that, as did my ex-husband. If necessary, remind the ex that HE is the adult in the situation and therefore, it is HIS responsibility to establish contact and set the tone of the relationship.

[diana_circe]

Kelsey, he does try that. He's also said out of sight out of mind" which totally pissed me off, but was probably the most honest thing he's ever said to me.

The only problem I have with anything that's been said is calling Mike their step father. He is their dad, legally, bindingly. Got the birth certificates to prove it. An adopted parent is not called anything but the parent in any other situation.

In any case, I do want to thank you all for the input and support and conversation.

[vicky122]

Kelsey, he does try that. He's also said out of sight out of mind" which totally pissed me off, but was probably the most honest thing he's ever said to me.

The only problem I have with anything that's been said is calling Mike their step father. He is their dad, legally, bindingly. Got the birth certificates to prove it. An adopted parent is not called anything but the parent in any other situation.

In any case, I do want to thank you all for the input and support and conversation.

Diana my brother was with someone who had a daughter very young. They was together for about 20 years or so. Now I am not sure why my brother never adopted her and not sure why. Any way they had 4 kids together and they broke up. My niece yes she is my niece went on to meet her real dad after so was grown. But my brother Was her dad even when my brother passed away she was in the obit as his daughter. And she still says my dad when she talks about him. So even if your d/h didn't have them papers and he is doing what a dad is suppose to do he is your kids dad. Like I said before it is not the one that plants the seed put the one who waters it.

[diana_circe]

Vicky, I know how that goes. My dad never adopted me, and despite his alcoholism when I was young he was my dad.

I met my birth father for the first time when I was 24, and we tried to have a relationship, but he wanted me to call him dad and I was very uncomfortable with it. I had a dad. Initially, when I met my bio father I wasn't even wanting to meet him. There were two older sister and an older brother that I knew I had and wanted to meet. My oldest sister had run away from home when she was 16 and I was 8 and I had a good memory of her and wanted to see her again. I ended up getting a hold of my second to oldest sister, who told her dad that I contacted her, and in turn he contacted me. I still talk to the sister I contacted occasionally, but haven't spoken to my oldest sister in about 8 years, she's got a life I just don't understand. And my older brother is pretty screwed up too and we never hit it off. Turns out I am the middle of 9 on my bio father's side, he remarried after he and my mom split and he adopted her oldest child and they had two more. He then divorced and got remarried again and had two more. I have more sibilings than anyone I've ever met and not one of them are full blooded LOL Anyway, long story short, I understand what you're saying. Mike was the dad long before it was legal. Just like my step dad will always be my dad, even tho he never adopted me and even tho I met the bio father. Even after he remarried and had two more kids he treated me like his daughter, and my brother and sister from his second marriage are my brother and sister, no step, no half, just brother and sister.

And just to clarify the brothers and sister. My bio father has 8 children he sired, and one he adopted, four which are older than me, four which are younger. My mom had two kids, my and my sister, who is the blood child of my step-dad. My step dad then remarried and adopted his wife's child and they had one together. So I am the middle child on my bio father's side and the oldest between my mom and dad's combined kids. Confused yet? All in all I have 11 brothers and sister, 5 of which I see and/or speak to :lol

I know is all sounds fairly dysfunctional... but I'm OK, I really am *tic tic*

[msmom79]

i was also raised by a step father-so yes i have been down that road-i wasnt adopted either,as my 3 sisters were not either-but my step father was still daddy-the one who was always there-my dad has been gone for 17 years now-and boy how i miss him-and to tell you the truth my bio dad still blames my mom and dad for not seeing his girls-come on im 48 years old and i left home and married when i was 18-what about all those years i have not lived at home,is that mom and dads fault to-and my step dad passed away years ago,is it still his fault my bio never had anything to do with us girls?no!!! i for one can tell you my step father was and is still the best,even though he;s not here-he instilled values in me,that can never be forgotten-now if your kids want to see their dad let them-but if not then just let it go-as they have a great daddy right now-and it takes a special man,to take on raising someone elses kids-so kuddo's to mike and congrates to you for finding that special guy.