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atprm
12-01-2008, 07:02 PM
The little guys -- listed in the title of this thread -- would be the very first to be affected, because when crap rolls down hill, it's the ones at the very bottom that drown first!

Also not counted in this article are plants that make computer components -- which are parts of cars made past around 1994...


Who Would Big 3 Failure Hurt?

As the federal government and major U.S. industries continue the bailout boogie on Capitol Hill, Americans have been examining what exactly all these billions of dollars go toward and who exactly they help.

Proponents of the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street in October argued that, in the end, the bailout would help Main Street.

On Nov. 19, the CEOs of the Big Three automakers -- General Motors, Ford and Chrysler -- shuffled up to the Hill, hat in hand, asking for a bailout to the tune of $25 billion. The CEOs were met with extreme skepticism, and an initial vote was postponed because it was believed there was not enough support to pass the bailout, followed by calls from Congressional leaders for specific plans from the executives about how the money would save their companies.

Loss Of 13.3 Million Jobs?

At least one lawmaker at the hearing perceived a bias toward the auto bailout because it could benefit blue-collar workers.

"I have been struck, not happily, in the time that we've been discussing this, at what frankly seems to me an inherent cultural bias," said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., chair of the House Financial Services Committee. "There's a double standard here. Aid to blue-collar employees is being judged by a standard different than white-collar employees."

Proof of Frank's statement, at least in the fact that the bailout could aid millions of blue-collar workers, seems to exist.

According to the Alliance for American Manufacturing, the U.S. auto industry directly employs 239,000 American workers. According to a study by Auto Alliance, the nation's auto industry supports 13.3 million U.S. jobs. Were the Big Three to go under, the ripple effect across the economy would be tremendous.

The manufactured parts that go into an American automobile come from many different sectors of the economy.

According to a 2003 study by the Center for Automotive Research, 92,200 jobs in plastic and rubber, 23,575 jobs in glass, 15,475 jobs in steel, 3,384 jobs in iron, 25,859 jobs in aluminum and 1,393 jobs in the copper and brass industries relied directly on the auto industry. The study also concluded that 240,200 jobs in metal manufacturing were in the same boat.

The study also found that building cars uses 3.9 percent of all the plastic and rubber in the country, 23 percent of the glass, 14 percent of the steel and 31 percent of the iron and aluminum. The Auto Alliance study perhaps best summed up the importance of the auto industry on the American economy by concluding that for every worker directly employed by an automaker, more than 10 spin-off jobs are created.

"We face the question of a $25 billion loan that would be repaid … or we face the prospects of $100 to $150 billion in costs to our economy down the road in the form of plant closings, layoffs, supply chains disappearing, the government needing to pick up pension obligations, increased demand on social services and a dramatic loss of income for millions of workers who would be put out of business were the Big Three to go bankrupt," said AAM Executive Director Scott Paul in a Nov. 20 conference call.

Some Critics Support Bailout

Even the biggest critics of the auto industry appear to be in favor of the bailout because of the impact it could have on the average American worker.

Filmmaker Michael Moore, one the most prominent critics of the auto industry, rose to fame by directing and starring in the 1989 documentary "Roger and Me," which chronicled the devastation the town of Flint, Mich., underwent in the 1980s when GM closed plants and laid off thousands of workers at a time it was making billions in profits. Moore appeared on "Larry King Live" Nov. 19 to talk about the proposed bailout, and even he spoke in favor of it, albeit with some changes he would like to see.

"It's a horrible ripple effect (on the economy)," said Moore. "That's why they as an infrastructure and as a company it can't be allowed to go under. My point is that we shouldn't be giving the money to the current management team and the current people that are running this thing into the ground. I mean, Larry, $25 billion? If we're going to give them $25 billion, we should really be able to own the company. If you gave me $25 billion to make my next movie, I think you own that movie, Larry."

The Big Three CEOs all took private jets to Washington, D.C., in order to appear before Congress, which each cost an estimated $20,000 apiece. News like that -- combined with the recent announcement that GM just opened a $300 million plant in Russia -- has not helped send the message that this bailout is aimed at the American blue-collar worker. "I'm of mixed mind about this bailout, Larry, because I don't think these companies, with these management people, should be given a dime, because that's just going to be money going up in smoke or off to other countries," said Moore. "GM is currently building a $300 million factory in Russia right now to build SUVs, right outside of St. Petersburg. That's where your money's going to go, no matter what they say."

pepperpot
12-01-2008, 07:09 PM
For the few truly 'wealthy' in a business, to 'deny' them really hurts ourselves.....capitolism works.....when the 'wealthy' have money...they spend....it does 'trickle' down to the 'working class'.....they will buy cars, eat lunch, buy suits....who cares if they have hundred's of suits in their closets? Someone had to sew them and sell them........don't hate the wealthy...they employ us.....

So what if a handful get an incredible amount of money? They spend it and employ us!!! Capitalism! :doh

They also donate to very needy causes......what will happen to them? :shrug

atprm
12-01-2008, 07:14 PM
They also donate to very needy causes......what will happen to them? :shrug

we will be on food stamps, medicaid and welfare... and since our youngest is almost 18, we might have to get pregnant to stay on that cycle for a few more years... which also means we would get WIC and Focus Hope too!

pepperpot
12-01-2008, 07:23 PM
we will be on food stamps, medicaid and welfare... and since our youngest is almost 18, we might have to get pregnant to stay on that cycle for a few more years... which also means we would get WIC and Focus Hope too!

...and who pays for that?......:(...the already over burdened poor slob who is working.....:(

Restaurants and service industires will be hit very hard.....as well as many others...:(

atprm
12-01-2008, 07:26 PM
...and who pays for that?......:(...the already over burdened poor slob who is working.....:(

Restaurants and service industires will be hit very hard.....as well as many others...:(

you guessed it -- everyone that still has jobs when this is said and done.

for the record -- we do not collect any kind of "aid" from the government. The last time that I did, I was a single mom of a 2 year old and I was in school full time, and working 1 job -- but it was not enough to sustain her and I.

(that was in 1993).

gmyers
12-01-2008, 08:51 PM
I don't think it's about the workers why they don't want to bail them out. I think its because they feel like the money will be wasted and they'll continue doing business the way they have and be in trouble again in the future. They want them to chenge the way they do business so they wont be throwing the money away. At least thats why they are saying they don't want to bail them out.

atprm
12-01-2008, 09:33 PM
I don't think it's about the workers why they don't want to bail them out. I think its because they feel like the money will be wasted and they'll continue doing business the way they have and be in trouble again in the future. They want them to chenge the way they do business so they wont be throwing the money away. At least thats why they are saying they don't want to bail them out.

I think that anyone that got a bail out ...especially wall street and the banks should have been subjected to the same scrutiny...

but Paulson doesn't have any friends in the auto industry like he does with the banks...

pepperpot
12-02-2008, 06:09 AM
I don't think it's about the workers why they don't want to bail them out. I think its because they feel like the money will be wasted and they'll continue doing business the way they have and be in trouble again in the future. They want them to chenge the way they do business so they wont be throwing the money away. At least thats why they are saying they don't want to bail them out.

I agree that businesses should be held accountable and be able to balance their books....but when businesses and wealthy stop spending.....the average Joe is the one who gets hurt. The 'wealthy' will always have enough for dinner on the table.....but that doesn't employ anyone....when they go 'out to eat'....then, they employ and support several industries. ;)

What got us all in trouble (and I don't mean we all 'participated' but we're all in trouble because it affects us) is the over extension of credit. The 'little' person wanted to live like the 'big' person, but he couldn't afford to.....but he felt it was his 'right' to be able to....so he over-extended his credit....and now he can't pay..... Had he realized that he could work to someday be a 'big' person instead of this (the big lifestyle) 'owed' to him and his 'just due right' to have it......we'd all be in better shape today.

I went through the ranks of rental, co-op, starter home, etc....many couple today (or the recent yesterday)....started their adult life moving right into that big house....no money down.....and financed the closing costs....:doh

It's not just the housing and banking......they wanted 'nice' autos too.....what's the purpose of the Hummer? It certainly isn't economical nor fuel efficient......anywho......I could go on.....

*steps off soap box for a bit*