Experiments in tolerance ...

[Jolie Rouge]

Sadly the bad behavior is not limited to one side of the spectrum or the other ...

Tolerance fails T-shirt test

As the media keeps gushing on about how America has finally adopted tolerance as the great virtue, and that we're all united now, let's consider the Brave Catherine Vogt Experiment.

Catherine Vogt, 14, is an Illinois 8th grader, the daughter of a liberal mom and a conservative dad. She wanted to conduct an experiment in political tolerance and diversity of opinion at her school in the liberal suburb of Oak Park.

She noticed that fellow students at Gwendolyn Brooks Middle School overwhelmingly supported Barack Obama for president. His campaign kept preaching "inclusion," and she decided to see how included she could be.

So just before the election, Catherine consulted with her history teacher, then bravely wore a unique T-shirt to school and recorded the comments of teachers and students in her journal. The T-shirt bore the simple yet quite subversive words drawn with a red marker:


"McCain Girl"

"I was just really curious how they'd react to something that different, because a lot of people at my school wore Obama shirts and they are big Obama supporters," Catherine told us. "I just really wanted to see what their reaction would be."

Immediately, Catherine learned she was stupid for wearing a shirt with Republican John McCain's name. Not merely stupid. Very stupid.

"People were upset. But they started saying things, calling me very stupid, telling me my shirt was stupid and I shouldn't be wearing it," Catherine said.

Then it got worse.

"One person told me to go die. It was a lot of dying. A lot of comments about how I should be killed," Catherine said, of the tolerance in Oak Park.

But students weren't the only ones surprised that she wore a shirt supporting McCain.

"In one class, I had one teacher say she will not judge me for my choice, but that she was surprised that I supported McCain," Catherine said.

If Catherine was shocked by such passive-aggressive threats from instructors, just wait until she goes to college.

"Later, that teacher found out about the experiment and said she was embarrassed because she knew I was writing down what she said," Catherine said.

One student suggested that she be put up on a cross for her political beliefs.

"He said, 'You should be crucifixed.' It was kind of funny because, I was like, don't you mean 'crucified?' " Catherine said.

Other entries in her notebook involved suggestions by classmates that she be "burned with her shirt on" for "being a filthy-rich Republican."

Some said that because she supported McCain, by extension she supported a plan by deranged skinheads to kill Obama before the election. And I thought such politicized logic was confined to American newsrooms. Yet Catherine refused to argue with her peers. She didn't want to jeopardize her experiment.

"I couldn't show people really what it was for. I really kind of wanted to laugh because they had no idea what I was doing," she said.

Only a few times did anyone say anything remotely positive about her McCain shirt. One girl pulled her aside in a corner, out of earshot of other students, and whispered, "I really like your shirt."

That's when you know America is truly supportive of diversity of opinion, when children must whisper for fear of being ostracized, heckled and crucifixed.

The next day, in part 2 of The Brave Catherine Vogt Experiment, she wore another T-shirt, this one with "Obama Girl" written in blue. And an amazing thing happened.

Catherine wasn't very stupid anymore. She grew brains.

"People liked my shirt. They said things like my brain had come back, and I had put the right shirt on today," Catherine said.

Some students accused her of playing both sides.

"A lot of people liked it. But some people told me I was a flip-flopper," she said. "They said, 'You can't make up your mind. You can't wear a McCain shirt one day and an Obama shirt the next day.' "

But she sure did, and she turned her journal into a report for her history teacher, earning Catherine extra credit. We asked the teacher, Norma Cassin-Pountney, whether it was ironic that Catherine would be subject to such intolerance from pro-Obama supporters in a community that prides itself on its liberal outlook.

"That's what we discussed," Cassin-Pountney said about the debate in the classroom when the experiment was revealed. "I said, here you are, promoting this person [Obama] that believes we are all equal and included, and look what you've done? The students were kind of like, 'Oh, yeah.' I think they got it."

Catherine never told us which candidate she would have voted for if she weren't an 8th grader. But she said she learned what it was like to be in the minority.

"Just being on the outside, how it felt, it was not fun at all," she said.

Don't ever feel as if you must conform, Catherine. Being on the outside isn't so bad. Trust me.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-13-nov13,0,2881384.column?page=1

[Jolie Rouge]

More hope and change…

Augsburg College freshman and Alaska native Annie Grossmann was assaulted on election night by four black females for wearing a Palin pin.
http://conservativemeanderings.wordpress.com/2008/11/13/college-freshman-beaten-by-4-girls-on-election-night-for-wearing-palin-pin/

Annie Grossman was attacked on election night. (KARE 11)

The 4 girls jumped her, beat her and called her racist:
KARE 11 interviewed Annie. http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=529464


An Augsburg College student says she was attacked and punched on election night, because of her support for Sarah Palin. 18-year-old Annie Grossmann tells KARE 11 she was assaulted after attending an election night party. “They saw the pin and they started calling me racist, and I’ve never seen these girls before,” Grossmann. Grossmann says 4 women confronted here, one of them grabbed her, began shouting at her, and wouldn’t let her go.

“After about 5 minutes or so I just got really sick of it, just holding me there by force. So I kind of pushed her back and started walking away. She grabbed me by the shoulder, I turned around, and she punched me in the eye,” she said. Bruce Grossmann, her father, says the punch caused his daughter to hit her head on a wall behind her.

He says she sought medical treatment for blurred vision. She missed a couple of days of hockey practice and may have suffered a slight concussion. Augsburg officials do not believe the suspects are students at the school. Grossmann filed a police report; Minneapolis police say they’re still looking for the suspects. Annie Grossmann grew up in Delta Junction, Alaska. She is attending Augsburg college and is a Freshman on the hockey team. She calls Palin “a role model.” “I’ve met Sarah Palin once and my mom works for her,” Grossmann said.

[Anig2u]

Well, prejudice knows no color, no orientation or creed. Prejudice is everything and everywhere. When will humans learn to accept each other for who we are? It's sad that we can't all live for each other instead of against each other. Where is the compromise, the working together, the understanding? OK, I am done..just kinda went off for a few minutes..I am back in reality...LOL

[wobblypops]

Only whites can be racists & commit hate crimes & only a republican has to act tolerant of others.

Liberals are fine judging others but you may NOT ever judge a liberal.

[LuvBigRip]

Liberals are more enlightened. Didn't you know that? I mean if you haven't accepted that liberals are more educated, more enlightened and your conservative morals and ideals are of the stone age, then you haven't been paying attention.

A vocal angry liberal is voicing Free Speech. A vocal angry Republican is voicing Hate Speech. Just the way it is. Tolerance only goes one way.

[freeby4me]

Uhh, both sides have their extremes. Name one liberal on HERE that would be OK with people acting like that.

Name one Republican on here that would be OK with someone acting like that, representing their side.

[SurferGirl]

I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

[Bahet]

If a liberal doesn't like what you say or do they will make that crystal clear. But when it comes down to it, they will defend your right to have your own opinion. If a conservative doesn't like what you say or do they will try to pass a law to make it illegal.

[IthinkNOT!]

Everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want, and even entitled to say whatever they want. That is great. I support everyones right to their own opinion. But I will speak up when someone downs someone because they are different. You can think whatever you'd like, but that gives no one the right to be rude and disrespectful.

[speedygirl]

I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

I think that you often times confuse a disagreement with intolerance. I may not agree with much you say but don't begrudge you your opinions and standards, therefore I'm tolerant.

[Anig2u]

The difference between a Liberal and a conservative is, a Liberal will try to see all sides, a conservative only sees one side..theirs.

[jeanea33]

The difference between a Liberal and a conservative is, a Liberal will try to see all sides, a conservative only sees one side..theirs.



I dont see that on either side. I think most are set in their opinions. Most defend what they believe.

[Anig2u]

Only whites can be racists & commit hate crimes & only a republican has to act tolerant of others.

Liberals are fine judging others but you may NOT ever judge a liberal.

If you believe that you need to open your eyes if you believe that only whites can be racists. Try reading a news paper sometimes..or a talk show. Liberals do not judge they have opinions. Conservatives do judge, but they do not like to be judged themselves.

[Anig2u]

Only whites can be racists & commit hate crimes & only a republican has to act tolerant of others.

Liberals are fine judging others but you may NOT ever judge a liberal.


I dont see that on either side. I think most are set in their opinions. Most defend what they believe.

Why then do Conservatives want to make everything they don't agree with illegal? Liberals see everyones side..but we don't feel the need to make people conform to our opinions.

[LuvBigRip]

The difference between a Liberal and a conservative is, a Liberal will try to see all sides, a conservative only sees one side..theirs.

No, a conservative see's all sides as well, but has to go with their morals, beliefs and convictions. The problem is many liberals think it is ok to force a conservative to conform to their beliefs, in direct contrast with their moral convictions.

[Anig2u]

No, a conservative see's all sides as well, but has to go with their morals, beliefs and convictions. The problem is many liberals think it is ok to force a conservative to conform to their beliefs, in direct contrast with their moral convictions.

Well at least Liberals do not try to make the whole Country live according to their morals and standards. Yes Liberals do have morals and standards..some conservatives may not believe it but they do.

[gmyers]

Liberals don't see all sides. They like to tell people their prejudiced, intolerant or ignorant if you don't agree with their views.

[Anig2u]

Liberals don't see all sides. They like to tell people their prejudiced, intolerant or ignorant if you don't agree with their views.

If a conservative is judging others and wants them to conform to their beliefs, and make laws to conform to their beliefs, then I would say they are prejudice, ignorant and intolerant.

[speedygirl]

Liberals don't see all sides. They like to tell people their prejudiced, intolerant or ignorant if you don't agree with their views.

Suffice it to say it's SOME liberals and that applies to conservatives as well. I look at all sides of a situation and arrive to a decision that way. People shouldn't generalize one group when it's a small segment of that group that look bad.

[gmyers]

You don't have to conform to conservative views but you also can't force them to do something they don't believe in or they feel is wrong.

[Anig2u]

Suffice it to say it's SOME liberals and that applies to conservatives as well. I look at all sides of a situation and arrive to a decision that way. People shouldn't generalize one group when it's a small segment of that group that look bad.

LMAO..did you happen to get that SOME from me?? I was the one that said that to begin with so it should go without saying that not all conservatives and not all liberals have the same ideals. I know that not all conservatives are judgmental, intolerant and prejudice.

[speedygirl]

You don't have to conform to conservative views but you also can't force them to do something they don't believe in or they feel is wrong.

Who's trying? We're entitle to take whatever path we choose and no one has the right to force anyone into doing anything. Nobody would expect a person to do something that they considered wrong.

[Anig2u]

You don't have to conform to conservative views but you also can't force them to do something they don't believe in or they feel is wrong.

Really? Who is trying to force any conservative into a gay marriage?? Conservatives (some) should not try to make something illegal because it goes against their morals and standards.

[Anig2u]

Who's trying? We're entitle to take whatever path we choose and no one has the right to force anyone into doing anything. Nobody would expect a person to do something that they considered wrong.

Exactly, nobody is forcing anyone into a gay marriage, but the option should be there for those who do want that right.

[speedygirl]

LMAO..did you happen to get that SOME from me?? I was the one that said that to begin with so it should go without saying that not all conservatives and not all liberals have the same ideals. I know that not all conservatives are judgmental, intolerant and prejudice.

LOL, I didn't even see your post. I just woke up a short while ago and am still on brain fog. I hardly slept last night. I think I read the last couple of posts before I posted.

[Anig2u]

LOL, I didn't even see your post. I just woke up a short while ago and am still on brain fog. I hardly slept last night. I think I read the last couple of posts before I posted.

:rolling I was just pickin on ya :)

[Bahet]

There's another big difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives think it's ok to pass laws banning everyone from not living according to their moral beliefs. Liberals think everyone should live by their own moral code (as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.) Conservatives think if others live by a different moral code then they are being forced to live by it too. It's ok to force their morals on everyone but it's not ok for others to say "You live your life the way you want to and I'll live mine the way I want to."

[jeanea33]

There's another big difference between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives think it's ok to pass laws banning everyone from not living according to their moral beliefs. Liberals think everyone should live by their own moral code (as long as it doesn't harm anyone else.) Conservatives think if others live by a different moral code then they are being forced to live by it too. It's ok to force their morals on everyone but it's not ok for others to say "You live your life the way you want to and I'll live mine the way I want to."

I am sure glad everyone knows me. I am a conservative. I dont have a problems with gay marriage. My moral beliefs come from my up bringing and my faith. I do believe that everything can be taken to a extreme. Some people take things to far and causes others not to even look at the situation. I am not asking anyone to live to my values. I just want my values respected as other expect theirs to be.

[gmyers]

All conservatives didn't decide about gay marriage. The ones in California did. Maybe you should go there and try to get them to change their minds.

[Anig2u]

I am sure glad everyone knows me. I am a conservative. I dont have a problems with gay marriage. My moral beliefs come from my up bringing and my faith. I do believe that everything can be taken to a extreme. Some people take things to far and causes others not to even look at the situation. I am not asking anyone to live to my values. I just want my values respected as other expect theirs to be.

Don't take things too literally. Not all Conservatives think the same and not all Liberals think the same. Nobody said janea33 believes this or that.

[Anig2u]

All conservatives didn't decide about gay marriage. The ones in California did. Maybe you should go there and try to get them to change their minds.

Again..don't take things too literally..obviously only Conservatives were allowed to vote in CA. I don't believe I can vote on anything in CA..nor can I just fly off to wherever I would like. Unless you are offering me a round trip ticket??

I meant that only Conservatives were allowed to vote in the State of CA..not Conservatives that live in other States. You actually thought I mean that only Conservatives are allowed to vote in that state??

[gmyers]

Do you really believe that only conservatives were allowed to vote on gay marriage in California? I bet others did too and you'd be surprised who voted against it.

[Anig2u]

Do you really believe that only conservatives were allowed to vote on gay marriage in California? I bet others did too and you'd be surprised who voted against it.

I was kinda thinking that Oscar the Grouch voted too..but who knows. I never said only conservatives voted in CA. Again..you are taking things too LITERALLY. You do know what LITERALLY means don't you?

[gmyers]

I was kinda thinking that Oscar the Grouch voted too..but who knows. I never said only conservatives voted in CA. Again..you are taking things too LITERALLY. You do know what LITERALLY means don't you?

Yeah I know what it means and I also know what smart elic means too.

[Anig2u]

Yeah I know what it means and I also know what smart elic means too.

Yup I can be a wiseass, but I can't believe you seriously thought I meant only Conservatives were allowed to vote in the State of CA..LOL

[freeby4me]

Oh no, you're absolutely right. Too many people voted for the ban because "They thought it was yucky".
Yea, how wonderful.

[LuvBigRip]

But it wasn't only liberals who voted against the gay marriage ban, and it wasn't only conservatives who voted for it. I know many conservatives (myself included) who support equal rights for all citizens, I also know of several liberals who want marriage as one woman and one man.

[Anig2u]

But it wasn't only liberals who voted against the gay marriage ban, and it wasn't only conservatives who voted for it. I know many conservatives (myself included) who support equal rights for all citizens, I also know of several liberals who want marriage as one woman and one man.

I don't know who your talking to but, I myself know that both Conservatives and Liberals alike have voted for prop 8 not just one or the other. I do believe that most Conservatives more often than not want the laws to conform to their morals and standards..at least that is how it seems on this forum.

[DrHolliday]

Only whites can be racists & commit hate crimes & only a republican has to act tolerant of others.

Liberals are fine judging others but you may NOT ever judge a liberal.

Isn't that the truth.

[speedygirl]

Isn't that the truth.

Nope, lol. It goes both ways. There are jacka$$ liberals as well as conservatives. It's the ones that take it too far that get all the press. Those of us that live good, moral lives are ignored because what kind of story would that make? It's be too boring for the MSM.

[DrHolliday]

Nope, lol. It goes both ways. There are jacka$$ liberals as well as conservatives. It's the ones that take it too far that get all the press. Those of us that live good, moral lives are ignored because what kind of story would that make? It's be too boring for the MSM.

Pleeeeze. I lost count of how many times Obama people played the race card with me.

I knew more non-Anglos voting for Obama for his race than Anglos voting for McCain for his race.

[speedygirl]

Pleeeeze. I lost count of how many times Obama people played the race card with me.

I knew more non-Anglos voting for Obama for his race than Anglos voting for McCain for his race.

"Pleeeeze" ???Who said anything about Obama playing the race card with you? I was responding that I disagreed that
Only whites can be racists & commit hate crimes & only a republican has to act tolerant of others.

Liberals are fine judging others but you may NOT ever judge a liberal.

I feel that there are racists in every segment of society be they liberal or conservative and both groups have their share of idiots. You disagree with that? I said nothing about who voted for who.

[Bahet]

I knew more non-Anglos voting for Obama for his race than Anglos voting for McCain for his race.

Anyone who votes based solely on race is probably too stupid to read the ballot in the 1st place.

I know a lot of blacks voted for Obama partially because of his race. I believe there were more people voting for Obama based on his race than voted for McCain based on his race. However, there were a lot of people who voted for McCain based on Obama's race and that's a shame.

[whatever]

I just have a question. Who here would LET their child wear one OF EACH t-shirts to school for this experiment?
Are you open minded enough to do so.I know I would if I had a child.

ADDING: Would it open your eyes IF you knew this type of thing WAS this bad directed to either direction. Because I have to say I was a little shocked that she was getting die talk.

[Bahet]

I'd not only let them, I'd buy the T-shirts and be proud of their ingenuity, curiosity, and political interest.

[speedygirl]

I just have a question. Who here would LET their child wear one OF EACH t-shirts to school for this experiment?
Are you open minded enough to do so.I know I would if I had a child.

I would if my child wanted to do it and was old enough and had enough understanding/maturity to accept the consequences that went along with this experiment.

[whatever]

I think that you often times confuse a disagreement with intolerance. I may not agree with much you say but don't begrudge you your opinions and standards, therefore I'm tolerant.

I'm NOT bashing you. I think what she is referring and I have seen in a couple of posts directed toward her basically saying she is a loser and other similar statments etc. I recall one in part. saying no one here liked her. Which is a lie. I have no problem with her! I can't recall the specific person. But I have a general idea of who it was.

[YankeeMary]

I would if my child wanted to do it and was old enough and had enough understanding/maturity to accept the consequences that went along with this experiment.

I feel this way as well. I have encouraged my youngest to join the young republicans club at school. I think it would encourage his own independant thinking, I would think.


I am curious if the ones that bashed her with the 1st shirt are "nice" to her now. I think she is a very smart girl.

[Anig2u]

I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

I think sometimes the things you say are quite out there, and really make no sense to me at all. That said I would never resort to calling you names because I don't agree with you. Some people do have narrow minds when it comes to things like gay marriage though. Everyone has the right to free speech, but that does not mean that everyone is going to agree. Also, nobody has the right to force anyone to tolerate anyone else's ideas or opinions. People have the choice whether or not they will tolerate someone else's behaviors or opinions. That is why people vote on things, that vote will mean whether or not we have to tolerate something or not, but it does not mean that we can't try to change that vote. I don't think it's right that you are lumping all Liberals together as a whole..but I am sure you meant some Liberals not all. By the way it seems you yourself are not very tolerant of gay marriage.

[ahippiechic]

The thing I have a problem with is that if I don't believe something is right (for me), well then I don't do it. I don't date people of the same sex, I don't have abortions nor do I want 6 husbands. BUT, if someone wants to do those things, then who am I to try to make a law against it? I just don't do it. It involves consenting adults, so it doesn't affect me or my family in the least if others do those things.

Some conservatives DO want to make laws against everything they think is wrong. IMO, this is just a control issue. It bugs them that others think & do differently, so they want to make laws that force people to follow what they believe.

As far as freedom of speech, everyone is entitled to it. Even here at BBF (within the rules of the board) I may not agree with you, but you have every right to state your opinion. (as long as it stated in a way that doesn't violate the rules here)

[freeby4me]

The thing I have a problem with is that if I don't believe something is right (for me), well then I don't do it. I don't date people of the same sex, I don't have abortions nor do I want 6 husbands. BUT, if someone wants to do those things, then who am I to try to make a law against it? I just don't do it. It involves consenting adults, so it doesn't affect me or my family in the least if others do those things.

Some conservatives DO want to make laws against everything they think is wrong. IMO, this is just a control issue. It bugs them that others think & do differently, so they want to make laws that force people to follow what they believe.

As far as freedom of speech, everyone is entitled to it. Even here at BBF (within the rules of the board) I may not agree with you, but you have every right to state your opinion. (as long as it stated in a way that doesn't violate the rules here)

I know, I just do not understand it.

If, according to you (general) your God says "I give you free will" so you (general) decide "Well, God gives you free will so I am going to take away that choice for you". How does that make sense?

[whatever]

The thing I have a problem with is that if I don't believe something is right (for me), well then I don't do it. I don't date people of the same sex, I don't have abortions nor do I want 6 husbands. BUT, if someone wants to do those things, then who am I to try to make a law against it? I just don't do it. It involves consenting adults, so it doesn't affect me or my family in the least if others do those things.

Some conservatives DO want to make laws against everything they think is wrong. IMO, this is just a control issue. It bugs them that others think & do differently, so they want to make laws that force people to follow what they believe.

As far as freedom of speech, everyone is entitled to it. Even here at BBF (within the rules of the board) I may not agree with you, but you have every right to state your opinion. (as long as it stated in a way that doesn't violate the rules here)

I agree with you on those topics. I also feel we do NOT have the right to infringe judgement on other peoples beliefs.
But as far as the democrats (LIBERALS) I disagree with them wanting to bail everyone out right now. ESP. car companies. These places should have to re-establish themselves. They have to much mangement etc making WAY to much money, cut back on that and don't expect the goverment to bail you out.
Also I recall someone posting something about If Obama does well will we accept him. Well if he does NOT do well and makes things worse or whatever in his first few years will you (GENERAL SUPPORTERS) keep blaming Bush.
AS the liberals have had congress control now for the past 2 years.

[ahippiechic]

Well, this liberal doesn't think the bailouts are a good idea either.

[Bahet]

Republicans had control of Congress and the Presidency for 6 years and when things only got worse they just blamed Clinton.

Democrats only barely controlled one portion of Congress for 2 years. The Senate was evenly matched and the House had just a few extra Democrats.

[wobblypops]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferGirl
I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

(Quote from Speedygirl to Surfergirl) I think that you often times confuse a disagreement with intolerance. I may not agree with much you say but don't begrudge you your opinions and standards, therefore I'm tolerant.

See Surfergirl, you aren't even allowed to form your own opinion without a liberal trying to correct you. You, as a conservative must be wrong at all cost. Yep, that's their way of being tolerant.

[wobblypops]

Anyone who votes based solely on race is probably too stupid to read the ballot in the 1st place.

I know a lot of blacks voted for Obama partially because of his race. I believe there were more people voting for Obama based on his race than voted for McCain based on his race. However, there were a lot of people who voted for McCain based on Obama's race and that's a shame.

Should they have been allowed to vote? Should a test be given before a person can vote?

[pepperpot]

The thing I have a problem with is that if I don't believe something is right (for me), well then I don't do it. I don't date people of the same sex, I don't have abortions nor do I want 6 husbands. BUT, if someone wants to do those things, then who am I to try to make a law against it? I just don't do it. It involves consenting adults, so it doesn't affect me or my family in the least if others do those things.
Some conservatives DO want to make laws against everything they think is wrong. IMO, this is just a control issue. It bugs them that others think & do differently, so they want to make laws that force people to follow what they believe.

As far as freedom of speech, everyone is entitled to it. Even here at BBF (within the rules of the board) I may not agree with you, but you have every right to state your opinion. (as long as it stated in a way that doesn't violate the rules here)

See, I mostly agree with you here, except for the bolded.....as an example....

A porn shop....you may not patronize it, others do and that's okay, but do you really want a porn shop on every corner for your children to constantly navigate past?

There does need to be some sort of 'regulations' so we can be 'tolerant' of each other......because sometimes what's someone else's right....infringes on your right......

If someone wants to shoot heroine on a street corner, they're only 'hurting' themselves......do you want this in your neighborhood all.the.time? for your children to think that this is acceptable behavior?

[freeby4me]

Porn shops have black paper covering all the windows, so you cant see inside. Wheres the problem? Or are you more worried about the "Tempation" one might have??

[freeby4me]

I agree with you on those topics. I also feel we do NOT have the right to infringe judgement on other peoples beliefs.
But as far as the democrats (LIBERALS) I disagree with them wanting to bail everyone out right now. ESP. car companies. These places should have to re-establish themselves. They have to much mangement etc making WAY to much money, cut back on that and don't expect the goverment to bail you out.
Also I recall someone posting something about If Obama does well will we accept him. Well if he does NOT do well and makes things worse or whatever in his first few years will you (GENERAL SUPPORTERS) keep blaming Bush.
AS the liberals have had congress control now for the past 2 years.

If I recall, Republican support was required in order for that bail-out to be passed. The only way to not do it, was for the President to do it himself. If I also remember correctly on that, McCain was the one telling Bush to just push it through himself, he didnt need Congress approval for it. Just do it.

[pepperpot]

Porn shops have black paper covering all the windows, so you cant see inside. Wheres the problem? Or are you more worried about the "Tempation" one might have??

I did say it needs to be regulated.....as requiring them to have 'blackened' or 'a non see through' (for lack of better term) window....and regulations as to what areas they can operate in, certain distances from schools, etc..........

They have a right to exist, but some regulations are needed.......

[ahippiechic]

I did say it needs to be regulated.....as requiring them to have 'blackened' or 'a non see through' (for lack of better term) window....and regulations as to what areas they can operate in, certain distances from schools, etc..........

They have a right to exist, but some regulations are needed.......

I'm not saying that NO regulations are needed or that everything should be ok to do.

But my DD sees same sex couples everyday. Them getting a marriage cert. wouldn't affect us. She sees the hoe's on the corner so if prostitution were legal, it wouldn't affect us. (except for maybe making them clean up their act.) If a man has 4 wives, I don't see how that affects me either.

As long as it is consenting adults and it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not about to trying to make laws against it just because I don't think it's right.

[LuvBigRip]

Porn shops have black paper covering all the windows, so you cant see inside. Wheres the problem? Or are you more worried about the "Tempation" one might have??

Maybe where you live they do, but not in all areas. I lived in Vegas for years, the strip clubs handed out tracts for the clubs, escort services handed out their paperwork and they would shove it at you. It didn't matter if you had kids or not. One thrust a paper at my 5 year old DD, people just dropped them and they flew all over, including into the residential neighborhoods.

I am not talking about handing them out in front of the clubs, but they handed them out all over the strip. So if you were taking the kids to Circus Circus or out for dinner, you were subjected to the tracts. Finally, the city stepped in and layed down some laws regarding them, in many cases, they allowed the Casino's to purchase the sidewalks in front of the Casino, effectively making them private property.

Down Industrial Blvd, you have strip clubs, swingers clubs, adult stores, video stores all intermixed with businesses. You have no choice but to go down there at times, and when you are a single mom, many times your children are with you.

In addition, it is the type of people businesses like that draw. Without laws in place restricting where type of businesses can be placed, you have people who would happily put a porn shop across from a Park or down the street from a school.

I could care less if the businesses are there, hell, I have been in them. Worked in them. But when you thrust them into the faces of families, just trying to raise their children, then you are infringing on my rights too. Laws have to be there, in place because there are those people who could care less about your family values.

*** Please note all references to you or your is a general you or your. Not intended to piss anyone off.

[pepperpot]

I'm not saying that NO regulations are needed or that everything should be ok to do.

But my DD sees same sex couples everyday. Them getting a marriage cert. wouldn't affect us. She sees the hoe's on the corner so if prostitution were legal, it wouldn't affect us. (except for maybe making them clean up their act.) If a man has 4 wives, I don't see how that affects me either.

As long as it is consenting adults and it doesn't hurt anyone, I'm not about to trying to make laws against it just because I don't think it's right.

One example.....I think legalizing prostitution is not good for society.....it legitimizes the 'trade' and our children will be desensitized and think this is an option for them.....I don't want my children to think that prostitution is an option for them.....:shrug

So no, a prostitute in your area can hurt you....it's not just a 'consenting' adult issue.....it becomes 'role model' for your child.....there are limits to 'consenting adult' activities...

[ahippiechic]

It isn't legal here now and I've had to explain to my DD what they are & what they do. So I don't see how it being made legal would change anything for the worse.

Drinking beer is legal and I think that does way more damage than someone selling sex.

[Bahet]

See Surfergirl, you aren't even allowed to form your own opinion without a liberal trying to correct you. You, as a conservative must be wrong at all cost. Yep, that's their way of being tolerant.
And a liberal cannot voice their opinion without being labelled intolerant of those they disagree with. Speedy wasn't being intolerant. She was attempting to clarify the difference between disagreement and intolerance. You do not have to agree with someone to be tolerant of them. You can adamantly disagree and still accept that they have the right to their opinion.


Should they have been allowed to vote? Should a test be given before a person can vote?

Well of course not. No one has to pass an IQ or reading test to vote. Why would you even ask such a question? I said that racists are idiots. And they are. I didn't say idiots have no right to vote.

[pepperpot]

Business regulations, such as business licenses and the proximity of certain business types to a residential area, are decided on at a local level, not federal.

Also since possession of drugs and paraphernalia can be a felony depending on the district, someone shooting heroin would be against the law. Plus it's up to you as a parent to say that it's unacceptable and why.

Exactly....there are laws and regulations....it's not just "it's a consenting adult" issue...therefore...it's okay..:agree

[whatever]

If I recall, Republican support was required in order for that bail-out to be passed. The only way to not do it, was for the President to do it himself. If I also remember correctly on that, McCain was the one telling Bush to just push it through himself, he didnt need Congress approval for it. Just do it.

yes they did for that one but now they are AGAINST it the bail out for automakers. Bush has said (according to our local news) that they need to re-invent themselves as a company. Try getting rid of soooooo much overpaid, over bonused management. They were talking about the last recession were the CEO of one of the auto companies paid himself $1 for the year to help save money. Now if the current one (who i'm sure could damn well afford to do so) and many of the current mangement etc it would put alot of money back into the businesses. It may not totally solve their issues, but it would be a dang good start. Plus dh and I were talking the need to cut back on their prices. The price of steel etc has gone WAY done so they are making alot of money to make these cars right now i'm sure. It would be no different than a person who has to look for ways to save money IMO.
I just don't feel goverment needs to bail anybody out. And the REP. and Bush has already stated they don't feel the need to do so.

[ahippiechic]

Exactly....there are laws and regulations....it's not just "it's a consenting adult" issue...therefore...it's okay..:agree

I said consenting adults and that it doesn't hurt anyone. To me, none of those things I mentioned hurt anyone.

[pepperpot]

I said consenting adults and that it doesn't hurt anyone. To me, none of those things I mentioned hurt anyone.

Someone may differ as to the definition of 'hurt anyone'....:shrug

I feel prostitution hurts us all....:shrug

A time and place for everything.....

[gmyers]

I think if you talk to the prostitutes you'll find that it does hurt someone. I've seen a lot of shows on tv where they talked to them and none of them seemed overjoyed to be one. They had a lot of emotional issues and a lot of them had been sexually abused as children.

[freeby4me]

Someone may differ as to the definition of 'hurt anyone'....:shrug

I feel prostitution hurts us all....:shrug

A time and place for everything.....

Prostitution has been around since the beginning of time. Yes, it may "hurt" someone, but its never going to ever go away.
What would make sense is to legalize it, tax it, and have the women and men follow rules, tests and things of the sort. There are ways of making it safer.

Raise your children the best you can but you better clear one thing up while they're young, while they are YOUR children, its THEIR life and they'll damn well do what they please. If thats stripping, whoring, or lawyering, they'll do it just the same.

[ahippiechic]

Someone may differ as to the definition of 'hurt anyone'....:shrug

I feel prostitution hurts us all....:shrug

A time and place for everything.....

I'm not pimping the hoe's, honest, lol! I don't think it's a good thing. I just think making it legal would be better.

It has been going on forever and will go on forever, so if they make it legal at least it can be regulated. And the girls be healthier etc. Plus then the po po could spend more time on the 'real' criminals around here.

There are bad role models everywhere, legal or not. If we live next to a man who is living with 3 women, them getting a paper saying they are married isn't going to change anything for me. They are still there just the same. KWIM?

[speedygirl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferGirl
I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

(Quote from Speedygirl to Surfergirl) I think that you often times confuse a disagreement with intolerance. I may not agree with much you say but don't begrudge you your opinions and standards, therefore I'm tolerant.

See Surfergirl, you aren't even allowed to form your own opinion without a liberal trying to correct you. You, as a conservative must be wrong at all cost. Yep, that's their way of being tolerant.

And I think that you're wrong Re-read. I gave an opinion of what I thought concerning myself. I don't speak for others. If you can read correctly, (as in translation) my opinion is that she may think that I am being intolerant when in fact it is a difference of opinion. I may not agree but I tolerate her opinions.
You, my friend are assuming that because I am liberal that I am being critical when in fact I was trying to tell her that I am not intolerant of her. Get it right before you spew BS.

[speedygirl]

And a liberal cannot voice their opinion without being labelled intolerant of those they disagree with. Speedy wasn't being intolerant. She was attempting to clarify the difference between disagreement and intolerance. You do not have to agree with someone to be tolerant of them. You can adamantly disagree and still accept that they have the right to their opinion.



Well of course not. No one has to pass an IQ or reading test to vote. Why would you even ask such a question? I said that racists are idiots. And they are. I didn't say idiots have no right to vote.

Exactly. Thank you. It's sad when some people constantly make this a liberal vs conservative battle when many of us ALL have many of the same values and just a few differences.

[IthinkNOT!]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SurferGirl
I have really notice that many liberals are very intolerant of conservatives.
I really resent things like being told I have a narrow mind, just because I don't agree with the liberals. They seem to have signatures about freedom of speech but will not tolerate any ideas other than their own.

(Quote from Speedygirl to Surfergirl) I think that you often times confuse a disagreement with intolerance. I may not agree with much you say but don't begrudge you your opinions and standards, therefore I'm tolerant.

See Surfergirl, you aren't even allowed to form your own opinion without a liberal trying to correct you. You, as a conservative must be wrong at all cost. Yep, that's their way of being tolerant.
I think you missed the point there, by a long shot. You just took it as another excuse to argue when there is no reason.

[ahippiechic]

I think if you talk to the prostitutes you'll find that it does hurt someone. I've seen a lot of shows on tv where they talked to them and none of them seemed overjoyed to be one. They had a lot of emotional issues and a lot of them had been sexually abused as children.

But that would be true even if it were legal. If it was made legal tomorrow, it wouldn't change anything. Except the hoe's would be in better health.

My friend runs an 'escort' service. She wasn't abused etc etc. It is fast easy money. That's why she does it.

[pepperpot]

I don't think degrading yourself and selling sex is healthy..... Legalizing it would only encourage it.... And the government would be profiting off people's 'illnesses'.......

I agree, there will always be prostitution and it will never be elliminated, but we don't have to encourage it just so we can make money from it.....

I don't think it's a wise thing to encourage in society....it should be discouraged....

Hippie, does your friend just run it or does she service clients as well?

[Jolie Rouge]

Use of the Words Husband and Wife Illegal in California
July 13, 2014 By Jennifer Burke

In the state of California, heterosexual married couples can no longer be referred to as husbands and wives. Democrat Governor Jerry Brown has signed a bill into law that not only redefines marriage, but eliminates any reference to husband and wife, replacing each with the generic term of spouse

SB1306 was sponsored by Democrat Mark Leno from San Francisco. Christian News Network reports on the content of said bill.


“Under existing law, a reference to ‘husband’ and ‘wife,’ ‘spouses,’ or ‘married persons,’ or a comparable term, includes persons who are lawfully married to each other and persons who were previously lawfully married to each other, as is appropriate under the circumstances of the particular case,” it reads. “The bill would delete references to ‘husband’ or ‘wife’ in the Family Code and would instead refer to a ‘spouse,’ and would make other related changes.”

Leno sponsored the bill after Proposition 8, in which California voters said no to same-sex marriage, was declared unconstitutional by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court refused to overturn it. State Rep. Leno said of his legislation,”This legislation removes outdated and biased language from state codes and recognizes all married spouses equally, regardless of their gender.”

In response to Governor Brown striking the term husband and wife from all family code, attorney Matthew Reynolds addressed his actions as a ‘raw exercise of power.”


“This bill continues the pattern we’ve been seeing the last few years of politicians ignoring the people to advance the agenda of marriage redefinition,” Matthew McReynolds, attorney with the Pacific Justice Institute in California, told Christian News Network. “What these politicians don’t want people to know is that their actions are illegitimate. Contary to media myths, Prop. 8 has not been invalidated on a statewide basis. Instead, these politicians are exercising raw power, ignoring the Constitution and counting on the people and the courts not to hold them accountable.”

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/07/13/governor-moonbeam-makes-the-use-of-the-words-husband-and-wife-illegal-in-california/

[Jolie Rouge]

If thats stripping, whoring, or lawyering, they'll do it just the same.

Sometimes it is hard to see a difference in the three ...

( sorry ... just read this reply)

[Jolie Rouge]

Schools can take girls to get abortions without their parents' knowledge or consent, but this little girl can't use this?

What is going on in schools today?

Fifth-Grade Girl Banned from Using THIS “Over-the-Counter Drug”

September 11, 2014 By TPNN Staff

Grace Karaffa, an 11-year-old fifth grader at Stuarts Draft Elementary in Virginia, has suffered from dry lips for years, so she uses, or at least tries to use, an everyday product which quickly provides her at least some temporary relief.

But there’s a problem.

In the zillionth example of the nanny state running amok over society and proof common sense has been completely obliterated, ChapStick is now considered an “over-the-counter drug,” which requires a doctor’s note and has to be controlled and monitored by the school nurse.

Grace’s lips have become so chapped that they’ve started bleeding in class, according to her father, but the school decided it would be better to have her lips bleed than allow her to use the banned lip balm, reports FOX News.

A statement from the Augusta County Schools superintendent’s office said in a statement that the ChapStick ban was placed because of information they received from “health care experts.”

“Health officials were concerned that the sharing of items like Chapstick, lip gloss and other lip balm products among elementary-aged students might well have been contributing to a serious infectious disease outbreak,” the statement read. “The school division chose to control the use of these products not because of a concern that they are inherently dangerous, but out of a concern that they may have been a means for the transmission of disease.”

So ChapStick is infectious, but the poor little girl’s bleeding lips wouldn’t be?

Pfizer, the manufacturer of the ChapStick lip balm, said in a statement to FOX News, that “ChapStick has been used safely by millions of consumers for more than one hundred years.”

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/09/11/fifth-grade-girl-banned-from-using-this-over-the-counter-drug/

This is also the policy at my children's schools in Louisiana ... the kids have to hide in the bathroom or risk a discipline report. :rolleyes:

[Jolie Rouge]

The peace-loving dems.

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10653873_395876063894787_5311341971097597307_n.png ?oh=3b3317cd056e42902bf3dfb40d64449b&oe=54BF6695

@thedemocrats finest, Mike Dickenson (D-VA), tweets asks god to give NRA Ebola.
That's Obama's party for ya! ‪#‎SalcedoStorm

[Jolie Rouge]

Cartoon Explains the Ironic Hypocrisy of Liberal “Tolerance” PERFECTLY
Michael Cantrell - June 8, 2015

One of the things that often drives me — and probably everyone else with a drop of common sense — is how liberals constantly drone on and on about “tolerance” and how anyone who disagrees with their opinion on social issues is “intolerant” and is a “bigot.”

Which in all honesty is hilarious given that by their constant attempts to silence those who have opinions that are different from their own, they become the very thing they claim to fight against.

This little webcomic by Adam Ford — who is pretty awesome by the way — pretty much exposes how ridiculous this sort of thing really is.

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot1.jpg

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot2.jpg

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot3.jpg

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot4.jpg

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot5.jpg

http://www.youngcons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/bigot6.jpg

Well played, Mr. Ford. Well played.

While this will definitely get a chuckle out of you, it’s also quite sad, because it’s absolutely true.

Tolerance is a word the left loves to use, but unfortunately for them they, they don’t cart to live by it nearly as much they claim to.

Go figure.

http://www.youngcons.com/cartoon-explains-the-ironic-hypocrisy-of-liberal-tolerance-perfectly/

[Jolie Rouge]

Today 10:27 am
Many in Nation Tired of Explaining Things to Idiots

By Andy Borowitz

MINNEAPOLIS (The Borowitz Report)—Many Americans are tired of explaining things to idiots, particularly when the things in question are so painfully obvious, a new poll indicates.

According to the poll, conducted by the University of Minnesota’s Opinion Research Institute, while millions have been vexed for some time by their failure to explain incredibly basic information to dolts, that frustration has now reached a breaking point.

Of the many obvious things that people are sick and tired of trying to get through the skulls of stupid people, the fact that climate change will cause catastrophic habitat destruction and devastating extinctions tops the list, with a majority saying that they will no longer bother trying to explain this to cretins.

Coming in a close second, statistical proof that gun control has reduced gun deaths in countries around the world is something that a significant number of those polled have given up attempting to break down for morons.

Finally, a majority said that trying to make idiots understand why a flag that symbolizes bigotry and hatred has no business flying over a state capitol only makes the person attempting to explain this want to put his or her fist through a wall.

In a result that suggests a dismal future for the practice of explaining things to idiots, an overwhelming number of those polled said that they were considering abandoning such attempts altogether, with a broad majority agreeing with the statement, “This country is exhausting.”

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/many-in-nation-tired-of-explaining-things-to-idiots

basicly, if you don't agree with their point of view, you are an idiot, moran, cretin, and more.

[Jolie Rouge]

25 Years Ago George Carlin Nailed the Left's War on Words
By: Chase Stephens
October 17, 2015 

In his 1990 comedy special "Doin' It Again," George Carlin used his talent for straight talk to call out those who've mangled the American English language into a mushy-mouthed, side-talking, whisper-breathed, pile of politically correct dog crap by shaming anyone who would dare use plain speak. You know, as in to speak the truth plainly. And yeah, Carlin's not speaking for conservatives per se but look around and ask yourself which world view is responsible for this modern totalitarian thought policing, tongue holding, free-speech-zoning America we live in today? Hint: it rhymes with shliberalism.

(Warning: some strong language used in this soft language rebuke)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY&feature=player_embedded

[Jolie Rouge]

The Daily Wire's Andrew Klavan follows up with some ill-advised plain speak in a short explanation of what the next step is after you've banned words: You ban facts...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LsnBZhCYJU&feature=player_embedded

Exit thought by the only guy to get Van Halen to soundtrack his book :

http://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/218.jpg

You've got to roll with the punches and get to what's real. -VH

http://www.dailywire.com/entertainment/477/25-years-ago-george-carlin-nailed-lefts-war-words-chase-stephens?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=101815-entertainment&utm_campaign=dwbrand