President George Bush: says goodbye from the world's biggest polluter

[observer]

George Bush surprised world leaders with a joke about his poor record on the environment as he left the G8 summit in Japan.
The American leader, who has been condemned throughout his presidency for failing to tackle climate change, ended a private meeting with the words: "Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter."

He then punched the air while grinning widely, as the rest of those present including Gordon Brown and Nicolas Sarkozy looked on in shock.

Mr Bush, whose second and final term as President ends at the end of the year, then left the meeting at the Windsor Hotel in Hokkaido where the leaders of the world's richest nations had been discussing new targets to cut carbon emissions.

One official who witnessed the extraordinary scene said afterwards: "Everyone was very surprised that he was making a joke about America's record on pollution."

Mr Bush also faced criticism at the summit after Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian Prime Minister, was described in the White House press pack given to journalists as one of the "most controversial leaders in the history of a country known for government corruption and vice".

The White House apologised for what it called "sloppy work" and said an official had simply lifted the characterisation from the internet without reading it.

Concluding the three-day event, leaders from the G8 and developing countries proclaimed a "shared vision" on climate change. However, they failed to bridge differences between rich and emerging nations on curbing emissions.

[freeby4me]

I cant say im surprised, what a dumb@ss.

[observer]

I cant say im surprised, what a dumb@ss.

The sad thing about it is foreigners believe all americans are like him.

[PrincessArky]

The sad thing about it is foreigners believe all americans are like him.

yep exactly

[freeby4me]

The sad thing about it is foreigners believe all americans are like him.

and people wonder why we're so hated.....

[wobblypops]

& the link to this true story is where????

[freeby4me]

& the link to this true story is where????

Here is one link I found

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/2277298/President-George-Bush-'Goodbye-from-the-world's-biggest-polluter'.html

[Jolie Rouge]

Sounds like something from The Onion ...

[Jolie Rouge]

Bush: 'Goodbye from the World's Biggest Polluter'
Friday July 11, 2008
Daniel Kurtzman's Political Humor Blog
By Daniel Kurtzman, About.com Guide to Political Humor since 2000
http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/2008/07/11/bush-goodbye-from-the-worlds-biggest-polluter.htm

[wobblypops]

People who think the telegraph is anything more than our national enquirer are very easily fooled. I guess there was a sale on aluminum foil again.

Could you imagine the field day our press would be having if this actually happened?

[Jolie Rouge]

Wait - did you hear about THIS !?!


Bush to Phase Out Environment by 2009
Declares War on Prairie Dogs

President George W. Bush confirmed today that his gutting of the Endangered Species Act is part of a broader plan to phase out the environment entirely by the time he leaves office in January of 2009.

“In addition to cutting taxes, it has been the goal of this administration to cut our wasteful, bloated environment,” Mr. Bush said in a speech before the Association of Indiscriminate Applauders in Washington, D.C.

In his speech, Mr. Bush added that the EPA would henceforth be renamed the Environmental Prevention Agency.

The president said that by removing endangered species from the protected list one by one, his administration has been able to phase out the environment gradually “so that hardly anyone will notice it’s missing.”

But the president warned that “much work remains to be done” if the environment is to be completely phased out by the first quarter of next year and called for the accelerated extinction of all superfluous organisms by the end of fiscal 2008.

“It is time for all Americans to take sides,” Mr. Bush said. “Are you with us, or are you with the black-tailed prairie dog?”

Mr. Bush’s plan also calls for a gradual reduction of air and water, with water most likely to get the axe.

“If it comes down to choosing between air and water, the president will probably scrap water,” said Environmental Prevention Agency chief Stephen L. Johnson. “After all, most Iraqis have been without water since 2003 and look how well they’re doing.”

Elsewhere, after Pope Benedict XVI prayed for peace on Easter Sunday, Vice President Dick Cheney requested equal time for war.

http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=6851&srch=


Bush Reveals Tap Water as Prescription Drug Plan[i]
Hopes Doped Water Will Be His Legacy, President Says[i]

On a day when millions Americans were reeling from the news that there were trace amounts of prescription drugs in their drinking water, President George W. Bush made a stunning announcement at the White House.

“I am responsible for this,” Mr. Bush told reporters. “This is my idea of a prescription drug plan.”

Standing before a banner reading “Prescription Accomplished,” the president said that he hoped providing Americans with free medications via their tap water would prove to be “the finest legacy” of his Administration.

Mr. Bush indicated that America’s drug-laced waters could boost tourism in the U.S., adding that English rocker Pete Doherty was “getting on the next plane over here.”

Across the country, the announcement that President Bush had doped America’s drinking water with dozens of prescription medications drew a variety of reactions.

“It makes me proud to be an American,” said pitching great Roger Clemens.

Responding to the news that she had been imbibing anti-anxiety drugs in her water, New York resident Carol Foyler said, “I’m not worried about it, but come to think of it, I’m not worried about anything anymore.”

But Atlanta’s Tracy Klujian said that he believes all drinking water in the U.S. should come with a warning label indicating possible side effects.

“I had a glass of water yesterday and I had an erection lasting more than four hours,” he said.

Elsewhere, shuttle astronauts planned to assemble the first robot in outer space, despite warnings that the robot would kill them and take over the ship.

http://www.borowitzreport.com/archive_rpt.asp?rec=6843&srch=

[wobblypops]

:lol

*goes off searching for my tin foil*

[mesue]

For those doubting this story due to the source maybe the New York Post will do as a reliable source.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008/news/nationalnews/w__polluted_the_air_at_g8_summit_119403.htm

[freeby4me]

For those doubting this story due to the source maybe the New York Post will do as a reliable source.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008/news/nationalnews/w__polluted_the_air_at_g8_summit_119403.htm

Thanks. I did a search for it and a ton of websites were brought up showing this, I dont doubt the story.

What I find interesting is no one had anything to say after I posted the one website, nothing was said until later on.....

[DBackFan]

For those doubting this story due to the source maybe the New York Post will do as a reliable source.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008/news/nationalnews/w__polluted_the_air_at_g8_summit_119403.htm

Oh now THAT really clears it up..OMG...it even SAYS in this article it was a witness who told the TELEGRAPH this information. Obviously i was not witnessed by the Post or a CREDIBLE journalist.

[Jolie Rouge]

I read in the Weekly World News that the visiting aliens helped Bush win the 2004 election ... they even had photos of them meeting secretly in the Rose Garden art the White House. You know they couldn't print it if it was TRUE




For those doubting this story due to the source maybe the New York Post will do as a reliable source.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008...mit_119403.htm

W. POLLUTED THE AIR AT G8 SUMMIT
By GEOFF EARLE
July 11, 2008

WASHINGTON - President Bush shocked world leaders at the end of a summit on climate change by concluding his remarks with a joke: "Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter."

He made his comment at the end of a G8 summit in Japan, where leaders of the world's industrial nations failed to reach a firm agreement on climate change.

Bush reportedly punched the air and grinned while making his comment.

One official who was there told the Daily Telegraph of London, "Everyone was very surprised that he was making a joke about America's record on pollution."

The United States produces about a quarter of the world's greenhouse gases.

Many Europeans are critical of Bush for failing to join the Kyoto treaty on climate change at the start of his administration.

The White House had no immediate comment on the president's crack.

* Bush signed a bill yesterday that overhauls rules about government eavesdropping and grants immunity to telecommunications companies that helped the United States spy on Americans in terrorism cases.

[email protected]


One official who was there told the Daily Telegraph of London...
Name your source if you want to be "credible" ...

[Jolie Rouge]

Bush didn't say that, and other Internet urban legends
By GAIL MILLER

There is a bumper sticker going around the Pacific Northwest that reads: "Eat American Lamb, 10,000 coyotes can't be wrong."

Or can they?

They can when it comes to urban legends. These are stories that are larger than life and are passed over back fences and that persist especially on the Internet. One of the figures who has attracted many Internet urban legends is George W. Bush. Urban legends have sprung up on topics ranging from his intelligence to his penchant for prayer.

The Snopes Internet site, http://www.snopes.com, researches urban legends, labels them true or false and gives some background behind them. I chose Internet urban legends about Bush that are false, and nonetheless show profound dissatisfaction with him and his policies. I asked Thomas Green, associate professor of anthropology at Texas A&M University and a folklore specialist, to analyze these legends and explain what they tell us about Bush and the society that perpetuates them.

One popular urban legend is "Texas Gov. George Bush refused to sell his home to blacks." Green says he has heard this from many blacks. Green explained that political campaigns are built on dishing dirt and discrediting of rivals. However, it is important to realize that what we see in urban legends is not solely the fault of the way we wage political campaigns. "Speaking for myself, the subtleties of political wheelings and dealings are certainly beyond me, and probably beyond most of us," Green remarked. Remember that Bob Dylan song called, "Ballad of a Thin Man?" The refrain in it is, "You know somethin's happening, but you don't know what it is? Do you, Mr. Jones.?"

Americans feel like Mr. Jones. They know something's happening but don't know what. "Our urban legends give us a root understanding of political and economic policies. We hear the allegations, and certainly the neglect of the needs of African Americans is one of them."

Green mentioned the persistent false legend that Bush's IQ ranking is the lowest of the last 50 presidents. He said: "By doing things like that and saying things like that, we can say with an urban legend we know what's happening. It gives those of us on the outside something to sink our teeth into."

Green has some theories when it comes to Bush's flair for misspeaking. He referred to a speech Bush made in Senegal where Bush actually said: "It's very interesting when you think about it. The slaves have left here to go to America, because of their steadfast and their religion, and their belief in freedom helped change America."

This sounds more like the Pilgrims landing on Plymouth Rock than it does enslaved Africans. However, Green says all our presidents have had Achilles' heels and we love them because they are common like us. Even the fabulously wealthy Kennedys were viewed by Americans as immigrants who made it on their own.

Another well-known urban legend about Bush is that he said, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for 'entrepreneur.' " The best way to characterize this faux pas is that Bush is completely ignorant of other cultures and languages. In typical cowboy style, he tends to shoot from the hip. He comes back with a quick answer rather than a measured, well thought out answer. No one can deny that Bush's strong actions have helped him politically. "But certainly it's backfired, and sometimes this kind of mentality is fodder for the urban legends," Green asserts.

One of the most amusing urban legends about Bush is mentioned on the Snopes site: "Hoping to attract the singer's attention at the 2002 Presidential Gala, Bush waved at Stevie Wonder."

Green explains that if one accepts the premise of this urban legend Bush isn't particularly tuned into American culture, especially popular culture. Who doesn't know who Stevie Wonder is? What is he thinking about? Where is his mind if he's waving at a blind man? "In all of these things, it says, there's something missing about this guy. He's not paying attention and we've got him running the country and we've got him commanding American troops in a variety of countries. That's scary, isn't it?" Green remarked.

A persistent Internet legend about Bush is that he misspoke at a right-to-life rally and said '"feces" instead of "fetus." There are whole books of "Bushisms" and "The feces-fetus kind of split seems to me to cry a Freudian slip," Green said.

The real issue here is Bush's intellect. Americans have a problem with investing so much trust in an individual during such a critical period. Bush has seemed willing to step up and take charge, but then has such an overwhelming problem. Those who are disgruntled are left to deal with it. "I think urban legends, whether true or not, are a pretty sensitive gauge of people's frustrations over things like gasoline prices. The situation in Iraq is frustrating to both pro and anti-war folks, and in some of the other realities of modern life you look for someone to blame, and you start at the top," Green said.

"Gossip has been around throughout history," he added. "It's one of the most important ways of attacking the enemy. We don't buy into a particular social agenda so we discredit the source. We discredit the source in some unsophisticated way."

Even a president gets stories told about him -- just ask those 10,000 coyotes enjoying American lamb.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/267490_bushurbanlegends23.html

[observer]

CBS) The charge of "flip-flopping" has resounded throughout the presidential race, with the Bush campaign repeatedly accusing Sen. John Kerry of changing his mind on the issues. The Kerry campaign, in turn, has declared that Mr. Bush is the one doing the flip-flopping.

CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer David Paul Kuhn looks at the record and finds both men are correct. Here, the president's most notable flip-flops.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapons of Mass Destruction

Announcing the invasion of Iraq on March 19, 2003, Mr. Bush said, “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”

Two months into the war, on May 29, 2003, Mr. Bush said weapons of mass destruction had been found.

“We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories,” Mr. Bush told Polish television. “For those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

On Sept. 9, 2004, in Pennsylvania, Mr. Bush said: “I recognize we didn't find the stockpiles [of weapons] we all thought were there.”
Nation Building and the War in Iraq

During the 2000 campaign, George W. Bush argued against nation building and foreign military entanglements. In the second presidential debate, he said: "I'm not so sure the role of the United States is to go around the world and say, 'This is the way it's got to be.'"

The United States is currently involved in nation building in Iraq on a scale unseen since the years immediately following World War II.

During the 2000 election, Mr. Bush called for U.S. troops to be withdrawn from the NATO peacekeeping mission in the Balkans. His administration now cites such missions as an example of how America must "stay the course."


Iraq and the Sept. 11 Attacks

In a press conference in September 2002, six months before the invasion of Iraq, President Bush said, “you can't distinguish between al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror... they're both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive.”

In September of 2004, Mr. Bush said: “We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September 11th." Though he added that “there's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties,” the statement seemingly belied earlier assertions that Saddam and al Qaeda were “equally bad.”

The Sept. 11 commission found there was no evidence Saddam was linked to the 9/11 attacks, which killed nearly 3,000 people.


The Sept. 11 Commission

President Bush initially opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the Sept. 11 attacks. In May 2002, he said, “Since it deals with such sensitive information, in my judgment, it's best for the ongoing war against terror that the investigation be done in the intelligence committee.”

Bowing to pressure from victims' families, Mr. Bush reversed his position. The following September, he backed an independent investigation.


Free Trade

During the 2000 presidential election, Mr. Bush championed free trade. Then, eyeing campaign concerns that allowed him to win West Virginia, he imposed 30 percent tariffs on foreign steel products from Europe and other nations in March 2002.

Twenty-one months later, Mr. Bush changed his mind and rescinded the steel tariffs. Choosing to stand on social issues instead of tariffs in steel country – Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia – the Bush campaign decided it could afford to upset the steel industry rather than further estrange old alliances.


Homeland Security Department

President Bush initially opposed creating a new Department of Homeland Security. He wanted Tom Ridge, now the secretary of Homeland Security, to remain an adviser.

Mr. Bush reversed himself and backed the largest expansion of the federal government since the creation of the Defense Department in 1949.


Same-Sex Marriage

During the 2000 campaign, Mr. Bush said he was against federal intervention regarding the issue of same-sex marriage. In an interview with CNN's Larry King, he said, states "can do what they want to do" on the issue. Vice President Cheney took the same stance.

Four year later, this past February, Mr. Bush announced his support for an amendment to the Constitution that defines marriage as being exclusively between men and women. The amendment would forbid states from doing "what they want to do" on same-sex marriage.

Citing recent decisions by “activist judges” in states like Massachusetts, Mr. Bush defended his reversal. Critics point out that well before the 2000 presidential race, a judge in Hawaii ruled in December 1996 that there was no compelling reason for withholding marriage from same-sex couples.


Winning the War on Terror

"I don't think you can win it," Mr. Bush said of the war on terror in August. In an interview on NBC's "Today" show, he said, “I think you can create conditions so that . . . those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

Before the month closed, Mr. Bush reversed himself at the American Legion national convention in Nashville. He said: "We meet today in a time of war for our country, a war we did not start yet one that we will win." He later added, “we are winning, and we will win."


Campaign Finance Reform

President Bush was initially against the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform bill. He opposed any soft-money limits on individuals to national parties.

But Mr. Bush later signed McCain-Feingold into law. The law, named for Senate sponsors John McCain, R-Ariz., and Russell Feingold, D-Wis., barred both national parties from collecting soft money from individuals.

During the 2000 race, Mr. Bush showed support for the so-called 527 groups’ right to air advertising.

In March 2000, he told CBS News' "Face the Nation," "There have been ads, independent expenditures, that are saying bad things about me. I don't particularly care when they do, but that's what freedom of speech is all about.”

In late August of this year, in an effort to distance himself from controversial anti-Kerry ads by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, Mr. Bush reversed his position, announcing he would join McCain in legal action to stop these "shadowy" organizations.

Though it would close the Swift Boat group's funding, court action would also silence well-funded liberal 527 organizations like MoveOn.org and America Coming Together.


Gas Prices

Mr. Bush was critical of Al Gore in the 2000 campaign for being part of “the administration that's been in charge” while the “price of gasoline has gone steadily upward.” In December 1999, in the first Republican primary debate, Mr. Bush said President Clinton “must jawbone OPEC members to lower prices.”

As gas topped a record level of $50 a barrel this week, Mr. Bush has shown no propensity to personally pressure, or “jawbone,” Mideast oil producers to increase output.

A spokesman for the president reportedly said in March that Mr. Bush will not personally lobby oil cartel leaders to change their minds.

[Jolie Rouge]

So - thirty seconds ago in the "McDonald's Boycott" thread you chastise people for not letting sleeping dogs lie... now you post this ? :lol: ( BTW - most of this has already been debunked ... but it is late, I am tired, and I have to be at the hospital in the am )

[observer]

So - thirty seconds ago in the "McDonald's Boycott" thread you chastise people for not letting sleeping dogs lie... now you post this ? :lol: ( BTW - most of this has already been debunked ... but it is late, I am tired, and I have to be at the hospital in the am )


Why is it that you couldn't pm me if you had a problem with I said.I never said people couldn't post articles in thread.I only have a problem with people
judging other people opinon just because it theirs.I can post what ever I want in the thread I started.

also here exactly what I said in my previous thread.


Here we go again why can't people just give their opinion and leave the thread.People act like by antagonizing and criticizing people posts their opinion on the subject is going to change.If you don't like what someoe says why can't you just say I disagree with what your saying instead of making character attacks.

[mesue]

it is now being reported in mainstream news, so now maybe you guys will believe it. LOL

I don't understand why there is any argument over how authentic it is, Oh now I see, Bush told the absolute truth for once, your right it is hard to believe. LOL

[mosdata1]

I'm not surprised that he made such an idiotic comment - it's just so like him. What does surprise me is that people are still surprised by his stupidity.

[Jolie Rouge]

it is now being reported in mainstream news, so now maybe you guys will believe it. LOL

I don't understand why there is any argument over how authentic it is, Oh now I see, Bush told the absolute truth for once, your right it is hard to believe. LOL


:lol Like Dan Rather ? :lol "Any lie told often enough becomes the truth"

They video those things ( and not like anyone would have a cell phone w/ camera ... ) so why hasn't it show up on You Tube or some such ?

This is a public forum and EVERY ONE is entitled to their own opinions - if you agree with them or not. But if you want to start "dishin'" why act so surprised when someone responds.....

[mesue]

Oh I see Jolie, it wasn't talked about on Fox news so it can't be real. LOL

I doubt it will end up on you tube since the telegraph clearly states this was done during a private meeting, so I doubt it was being filmed. It would've been great if it had been though. LOL

[renaissanceman]

Oh I see Jolie, it wasn't talked about on Fox news so it can't be real. LOL

I doubt it will end up on you tube since the telegraph clearly states this was done during a private meeting, so I doubt it was being filmed. It would've been great if it had been though. LOL

I don't like to see folks gangin' up on Jolie!

I just did a pretty thorough search for info on this story.

The ONLY sites covering it are the usual ultra-left suspects. huffington post, the independent, and thinkprogress.

I don't doubt that President Bush might make a joke like this. I DO however doubt that this story hasn't been covered in ANY major way when it is now almost a full week old.

IF this were true the media would be ALL over it.

EVEN if it were true, who really cares? SOME of us believe that God has given us a miraculously self correcting world.

SOME of us trust him to KNOW that we are prone to screwing stuff up. SOME of us realize that all this "pollution" that people yak on and on about, MOSTLY doesn't matter.

People are whining and crying about green house gasses. MAN is only responsible for an estimated 3-9 percent of those gasses!!!!

MAYBE we should all kill ourselves!!!

That way we wouldn't ruin the environment for all the animals.

IF President Bush said this I am sure it was understood by MOST as a joke!

Does anyone here remember when people could make jokes about subjects without worrying HOW it would be taken by some ULTRA PC nut job.

Like that guy who freaked out about the term Black Hole!!! Come on folks!

THIS is why we have NOTHING but chumps in Washington!

We are gonna waste ALL this time and effort going round and round on something that NOONE can actually substantiate.

I guess it's too much to actualy talk about something that might be an issue for our country.

[mesue]

I am not ganging up on Jolie, she and I debate things all of the time, we both enjoy the debate.

As I told you before there is no way you are going to see anything critical of the Bush Administration on a conservative website, so if that is your criteria for truth you must not believe anything bad about the Bush Administration.

All of the major UK papers are reporting it. But then they reported on the downing street memo for six weeks before the first mention of it in the US. I don't know if you seen it, but one of the MM apoligized for not reporting it earlier.

Whether Bush did it as a joke or not is really irrelavent, if it was a joke, it was in very bad taste.

As for changing our lives a little bit to stop or slow down global warming the few changes I have made have benefitted my pocketbook quite well. I installed those energy saving light bulbs for one thing, they save me about 6-7.00 a month, over a years time that savings provides me with enough to buy a weeks groceries, plus no more buying light bulbs every other month, plus no more having to replace the light bulbs so that also saves me a lot of money and time.

Global warming and the Bush Administration's failure to act on it in an effective way is an issue. I know some don't believe it is real, others believe it is. Some scientists say it is real, some scientists say it is not, but I have found most of the scientists saying it is not real, have ties to the oil companies, so who to believe the oil companies who would lose money if we all go to wind and solar or the independent scientist who is saying we are going to destroy the world if we don't make changes.

HMMM it is really a no brainer, even if global warming is not real, we are running out of oil or will eventually, that is a resource we need for other things, the wind and solar power is there for us all, we just need to learn a cheap way to harness it and use it. Also our dependence on oil is funding other countries with our hard earned dollars, we need to keep that wealth in our own country, we need to finda way to not be held hostage by OPEC and the major oil companies who are making billions off of the high price we are paying.

[Willow]

This might be off topic but I've noticed a lot of the OP's posts contain links to a UK website. It may not mean anything but I just found it a bit odd. lol

[renaissanceman]

I am not ganging up on Jolie, she and I debate things all of the time, we both enjoy the debate.

As I told you before there is no way you are going to see anything critical of the Bush Administration on a conservative website, so if that is your criteria for truth you must not believe anything bad about the Bush Administration.

All of the major UK papers are reporting it. But then they reported on the downing street memo for six weeks before the first mention of it in the US. I don't know if you seen it, but one of the MM apoligized for not reporting it earlier.

Whether Bush did it as a joke or not is really irrelavent, if it was a joke, it was in very bad taste.

As for changing our lives a little bit to stop or slow down global warming the few changes I have made have benefitted my pocketbook quite well. I installed those energy saving light bulbs for one thing, they save me about 6-7.00 a month, over a years time that savings provides me with enough to buy a weeks groceries, plus no more buying light bulbs every other month, plus no more having to replace the light bulbs so that also saves me a lot of money and time.

Global warming and the Bush Administration's failure to act on it in an effective way is an issue. I know some don't believe it is real, others believe it is. Some scientists say it is real, some scientists say it is not, but I have found most of the scientists saying it is not real, have ties to the oil companies, so who to believe the oil companies who would lose money if we all go to wind and solar or the independent scientist who is saying we are going to destroy the world if we don't make changes.

HMMM it is really a no brainer, even if global warming is not real, we are running out of oil or will eventually, that is a resource we need for other things, the wind and solar power is there for us all, we just need to learn a cheap way to harness it and use it. Also our dependence on oil is funding other countries with our hard earned dollars, we need to keep that wealth in our own country, we need to finda way to not be held hostage by OPEC and the major oil companies who are making billions off of the high price we are paying.

If you have been reading my posts I recently told EVERYONE that we will NEVER get both sides of a story if we ALWAYS stay in our comfort zones.

The huffingtonpost, the independent and the like are CERTAINLY not conservative web sites, so you are being just a little disingenuous by acting as if I am not hearing about it because I ONLY use conservative resources.

Unless you find Google to be unfairly biased towards conservatives?

As to the other, Global warming is IMO a big fat hoax that some liberals and Dems just happen to be getting rich off of!!!

Those fancy lightbulbs are touted by a liberal news company as one way to help the fight against global warming, that SAME company also happens to be connected financially to the company selling MANY of the bulbs GE.

I did switch to those bulbs because I believe in being a good steward. I do recyle. because I don't think we should have more dumps than parks, etc etc.

I do what I can so long as it doesn't mean a drastic change in my life.

But who cares if the joke was in poor taste? Aren't MOSt jokes?

Again, we don't even know that it happened!

As to your last statements, I could not agree MORE.

We need something MORE than pipe dreams and HOPE though.

DRILL here drill NOW! Continue to look for new ideas and develop those that are promising.

Common sense economics, IF we start to find our own oil AND we make a global commitment to new tech, the OPEC nations will realize that it is in their best interest to be more amenable to actually treating us like a valued consumer.

They will give us fairer pricing. They will realize that if they are seen as acting in a predatory manner we will stop doing business with them AT ALL, as soon as we can.

Obamas campaign recently called McCain out saying he had a plan that wouldn't give us new oil for up to 7 years.

Thats true, but when will Obama's plan give us new oil?

NEVER

We ned MORE oil resources NOW.

YES we need to look for and develop new tech. But until then, what are we supposed to fuel our vehicles with? What are trucking companies and airlines supposed to get around on?

What will our military fight on?

Or maybe NOW we are seeing SOME peoples REAL plan?

America stuck and unable to defend herself.

We have nationally syndicated columnists advocating for abolishing Air Conditioning for craps sakes!!!

[wobblypops]

I don't ever remember us, the USA, ever having to shut down factories near any olympic event such as China.

The hate that spews from those nutjobs (AKA huffington post etc) is what keeps me from reading their sites. I am no conservative by any means & one of my favorite sayings is this: Dear Jesus, please protect from your followers so don't lump me in a conservative bubble. I will side with them more often then not though since they (conservatives) are the ones who always have to give in to any demand a liberal, well, demands.

Bush is a joke domestically but I will back him 110% on the WOT any day.

[mesue]

I just did a pretty thorough search for info on this story.

The ONLY sites covering it are the usual ultra-left suspects. huffington post, the independent, and thinkprogress.

I don't doubt that President Bush might make a joke like this. I DO however doubt that this story hasn't been covered in ANY major way when it is now almost a full week old.

IF this were true the media would be ALL over it.

This is what you said, I think you are implying very strongly that you question it because the only ones covering it are suspect because they are liberal.

BTW mainstream media is covering this, unless you consider, The New York Post, a left wing rag.

If we leave it all up to the oil companies they are no better than OPEC, they hold leases to all of the major drilling sites, people are excited because Bush issued a memorandum and is trying to give the oil companies the right to drill off shore, even if this happens it will be at least 10 years before anyone sees that oil.

That is if they choose to drill at all. They could just hold the leases and watch the price of oil climb. If they control it all, then surely they can control the supply that is coming out to you and me thus control the price because there will always be a demand.

The oil speculators are driving up the price and making a killing on this, if Congress would act to pass a law to stop the speculating in oil, then the price would drop to 2.00 in about 60 days. There actually used to be a law that stopped speculators from doing this, congress needs to reenact it.

Of course we both know that they are all owned by someone who is probably making money off of this and so we shall continue to pay. If the greed continues to prevail, then no one will be able to buy goods and the economy and market will fail.

Also, I wanted to ask what you think of the republican agenda of yesterday of less big government involved in our lives, that was one of their calling cards at one time, what they preached, but now we are all being monitored by the NSA on our personal phone calls, we can be tracked within thirty feet by our cell phones, there is a black box in every car that has an airbag, our printers print out a series of yellow dots that correspond with a grid that tells them the serial number of the printer that printed the paper.

Of course I am not forgetting that the democrats allowed this to happen too, but seeing as how this used to be something they the republicans used to preach, I find it rather ironic.

[Jolie Rouge]

I am not ganging up on Jolie, she and I debate things all of the time, we both enjoy the debate.

True ... she is a worthy adversary. :lol



As I told you before there is no way you are going to see anything critical of the Bush Administration on a conservative website, so if that is your criteria for truth you must not believe anything bad about the Bush Administration.

Clearly you have not reading the same sites I do ... there are quite a few things "conservatives" ( this one included ) take issue with the Bush Administration - Border Security; Illegal Immigration, Trade defecits ( Nafta wasn't a big enough farce, so lets make the same deal with the rest of the freaking planet ... ) ad nauseum ...


Whether Bush did it as a joke or not is really irrelavent, if it was a joke, it was in very bad taste.

Joke ? We have not even establish he actually said it at all.


Global warming and the Bush Administration's failure to act on it in an effective way is an issue. I know some don't believe it is real, others believe it is.

There are herds of moose in the Seberian Tundra producing "dangerous levels of "green house gases" - lets wipe them out ! It is difficult to "act on" something that is a figment of someone's imagination.



Some scientists say it is real, some scientists say it is not, but I have found most of the scientists saying it is not real, have ties to the oil companies, so who to believe the oil companies who would lose money if we all go to wind and solar or the independent scientist who is saying we are going to destroy the world if we don't make changes.

I have a whole different thread on this topic ... I'll have to bump it.
There is a similar movement in regards to the therory of evolution...


HMMM it is really a no brainer, even if global warming is not real, we are running out of oil or will eventually, that is a resource we need for other things, the wind and solar power is there for us all, we just need to learn a cheap way to harness it and use it. Also our dependence on oil is funding other countries with our hard earned dollars, we need to keep that wealth in our own country, we need to finda way to not be held hostage by OPEC and the major oil companies who are making billions off of the high price we are paying.

There we are on the same page....

[mesue]

You are probably right, I don't go to that many conservative websites, and it is easy to see why conservatives would be upset over those issues, I'm a liberal and I agree with some of those issues, I think it is silly for Bush and Cheney and all the other idiots like them getting up and talking about security when they can't or won't secure our borders.

Of course we both know it is all about cheap labor, filling our labor force with an influx of illegal immigrants they can take advantage of and by doing so they can then begin to lower the wages in this country and the less benefits they can offer. When we lose our job and the only one we can find is a low paying, no benefits job, we will take it, if that is all there is. I have worked in such jobs.

Few people realize it but the woman's movement was a similar situation, legislation, meetings on capital hill over it, the media was all about pushing women out of the hosuehold and into the job market. While I agree "We've come a long way, baby" , I think everyone also sees it also came with a cost.

Many blue collar women were already working out of neccessity in those low paying jobs I mentioned above. No one mentioned their blue collar sisters who had to work and was working, already liberated. LOL

It was all about keeping from paying what is called a living wage, and putting a large influx of workers in the employee pool, because they could get those women for less money.

How to do it, bring in the congress and the senate to debate legislation concerning the ERA, bring in the media to put the message out there. We are all so manipulated by the powers that be, we don't even recognize it most of the time.

Now they want to do this all over again only this time they have exhausted the women's movement, most women are working, so bring in the illegal immigrants, open the gates, make it legal for the corporations to hire them.

They debate it in the congress and the senate. They the media tells us sob stories, it is all manipulation, but we have fell for it in the past.

As for Bush saying the, world's biggest polluter statement, I believe he did it. You know I find it funny that you conservatives always assume that it is always a lie if it is about Bush. This is totally in charcter compared to some of his other stunts. I also find it funny that you guys believe the conservative news channels are always telling the truth, but question everything told by the "so called" liberal media. LOL

I also have to wonder why you conservatives continually support the republicans who always run on keeping big government out of your lives, continue to support them on issues like oppressing gays and issues concerning religion like creationism vs. evolution.

I once had a biology teacher who said the bible and evolution went hand in hand, he said that God would be wise enough to know that the world was going to change so he gave us and all of the other creatures the ability to adapt through evolution to change with the world and survive in it.

As for global warming, have you seen the movie, "An Inconvenient Truth", I have and while I believe Gore should hang his head in shame for not bringing his home up to the standards the rest of us are supposed to be meeting, I saw some truth in it, and while you seem to focus on the gas of the moose, something we can't do much about except feed them a lower gas emission diet, just kidding, LOL I see that even if we don't agree on the global warming and what is causing the world to heat up, whether it is a natural cycle (in the film if I recall correctly Gore shows the natural cycle of things and says it is this cycle and the addition of our pollutions) or if we are helping by polluting the world, we do need to conserve what is here.

I see the earth as a big bowl full of all the neccessties of life, if we continue to take out the same things over and over again, we will run out. Just as we have seen with our forests, there are some wood that is almost extinct or high in price because there is such a short supply, because we never replanted, we never put back what we took out, and that was possible, it was a simple thing to do, but we ignored the possibility of a shortage though common sense should have told us that we would eventually run out. But it is was too much of an expense and too time consuming to require our loggers to replant, in the end we are all hurt by this neglect including the loggers.

So while we all debate whether global warming is real or not the planet continues to be polluted and many important things we need to live are used up at an extraordinary rate and not replaced.

Gore is right we need to stop using so much and look for alternative cleaner ways to replace oil, look for ways to fix what we have already done to the earth, these are things we needed to do years ago, common sense tells us that, but we argue over global warming and what is causing it. So while we may not like the messenger, the message is still important no matter how you view it.

[Mom2Shaun]

It's like a snake coming to eat the monkeys. And instead of getting away or attacking the snake, all the monkeys argue about what kind of snake it is.

It doesn't matter; the snake will still eat you!

[renaissanceman]

I also have to wonder why you conservatives continually support the republicans who always run on keeping big government out of your lives, continue to support them on issues like oppressing gays and issues concerning religion like creationism vs. evolution.

Okay, first off I can only speak for myself, but I am a Conservative and a Civil Libertarian. I tend to vote Republican ONLY because they more closely represent my views. Ronald Reagan was the last true Conservative Republican we have had.

Lets be HONEST here okay? NO ONE is advocating for oppressing Gays. I find it hard to believe that you can even say such a thing when they are having sex in PUBLIC during freakin' parades!!!

In MOST parts of America, public nudity can get you arrested. During a gasy "pride" parade folks walk around naked, masturbate and engage in simulated and REAL sex acts in PUBLIC while the police stand by!!!!

Just because we won't line up and say "your lifestyle is normal, accepted and JUST exactly the same as a heterosexual marriage, doesn't mean we are oppressing them!"

As to the Creation VS Evolution debate, I am not sure what you even mean. I dont recall the GOP having an official position on that.

I once had a biology teacher who said the bible and evolution went hand in hand, he said that God would be wise enough to know that the world was going to change so he gave us and all of the other creatures the ability to adapt through evolution to change with the world and survive in it.

I would partly agree with your biology teacher. All of God's creatures have a certain amount of variability built into them. THAT is uncontested fact, that IS Evolution. Evolution on the MACRO scale has NEVER been seen by anyone. There is NO evidence for it. Yet people INSIST on saying that evolution can account for all the complexity of life on Earth, devoid of ANY actual evidence. They have to believe "by faith" if you will, so they can deny God.

I see the earth as a big bowl full of all the neccessties of life, if we continue to take out the same things over and over again, we will run out. Just as we have seen with our forests, there are some wood that is almost extinct or high in price because there is such a short supply, because we never replanted, we never put back what we took out, and that was possible, it was a simple thing to do, but we ignored the possibility of a shortage though common sense should have told us that we would eventually run out. But it is was too much of an expense and too time consuming to require our loggers to replant, in the end we are all hurt by this neglect including the loggers.

So while we all debate whether global warming is real or not the planet continues to be polluted and many important things we need to live are used up at an extraordinary rate and not replaced.

We are told to be responsible and good stewards of all God has entrusted us with. MANY have ignored this. HOWEVER, God is ominscient and knew BEFORE we were even created what we might do. The whole idea that we may be headed for an ecological disaster that might threaten all life, should ONLY be believed by people who don't believe in God. Or who don't trust him to actually know what he is doing.

Gore is a big fat hypocrite who flys around on personal jets to far flung parts of the world for "climate" conferences that could be held by video conference!!! Global warming is NOT without its detractors, and those who oppose the general consensus are NOT all on oil company pay rolls. SOME have even lost standing and fiances due to opposing the established view.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy


Gore is right we need to stop using so much and look for alternative cleaner ways to replace oil, look for ways to fix what we have already done to the earth, these are things we needed to do years ago, common sense tells us that, but we argue over global warming and what is causing it. So while we may not like the messenger, the message is still important no matter how you view it.

I think that there are FAR bigger things for us to worry about. I guess if they can keep us worried about the sky falling "chicken lttlte" might ignore alot of REAL (or at the least more immediate) threats.

[renaissanceman]

[QUOTE=mesue;95949958]This is what you said, I think you are implying very strongly that you question it because the only ones covering it are suspect because they are liberal.

BTW mainstream media is covering this, unless you consider, The New York Post, a left wing rag.

Actually yes I do consider the New York Post to be a pretty Liberal paper.

Secondly, you misunderstand me.

My point is simply this.

IF they had ONE trustworthy source, one video, one voice recording.....

ABC, CBS, NBC hell pretty much EVERYBODY would be covering it.

Heres all I can find from ANY real news source

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008/news/nationalnews/w__polluted_the_air_at_g8_summit_119403.htm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/07/it-was-his-fina.html

Read the stories and see how they name some people who were there to lend credibility to the story while ALSO NEVER naming who actually said they heard this!!

This is a crock!

The fact that so many will believe ANYTHING that ANYONE says about Bush (so long as it fits with their pre-disposition) says a lot as well.

[mesue]

[QUOTE=mesue;95949958]This is what you said, I think you are implying very strongly that you question it because the only ones covering it are suspect because they are liberal.

BTW mainstream media is covering this, unless you consider, The New York Post, a left wing rag.

Actually yes I do consider the New York Post to be a pretty Liberal paper.

Secondly, you misunderstand me.

My point is simply this.

IF they had ONE trustworthy source, one video, one voice recording.....

ABC, CBS, NBC hell pretty much EVERYBODY would be covering it.

Heres all I can find from ANY real news source

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07112008/news/nationalnews/w__polluted_the_air_at_g8_summit_119403.htm

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/presidentbush/2008/07/it-was-his-fina.html

Read the stories and see how they name some people who were there to lend credibility to the story while ALSO NEVER naming who actually said they heard this!!

This is a crock!

The fact that so many will believe ANYTHING that ANYONE says about Bush (so long as it fits with their pre-disposition) says a lot as well.

The fact that so many will NOT believe ANYTHING that ANYONE says about Bush (so long as it fits their predisposition) says a lot as well.

First of all none of this has been denied by the White House, so until Bush says he did not do it, I have no reason to question it or not to believe it.

I find it funny that everything that comes out on Bush, conservatives jump on the bandwagon that it is a lie, with absolutely no proof that it is a lie. The reason so many question it apparently is, it has not been reported on MM, look the downing street memo was not reported for six weeks here while it was all over the internet, the papers and tv elsewhere in other countries, but it proved to be true.

I don't understand this nonsense about it has to be on MM to be true. Between reporting on the antics of Hollywood, rolling their eyes and making jokes with one another, telling the latest animal feel good story or animal nightmare story and the commercials and you think they have time to report the news. Seriously give these guys a break!

Are you old enough to remember Reagan's Presidency? It was a dismal failure in many ways, trickle down economics, people losing their jobs, people losing their homes, a huge amount of homeless people, homeless families. I do not have many fond memories of the Reagan years. History has been kind to him, he does not deserve it.

The GOP has been using the gay rights as far as marriage goes and the creatism and evolution as a smoke screen to whip up support and get elected for several years now, it is a way to gain support from religious folks. I think denying people the right to marry whomever they want is oppressing them. I think it is sad that so many working to deny these people rights, then turn out to be having affairs with those of their own sex on the side, sad and ironic.

Why are we supposed to trust that God will solve anything? How many times have people prayed to God and found their troubles only got bigger and worse than imagined? I'm always fascinated by how people think God is going to fix things.

Has it ever occured to anyone that if they truly believe in God then they believe he controls all. So I find it fascinating when someone survives something horrible like a tornado and when asked how they survived it they say, "God, God saved us!"

Of course they never think about the fact that God allowed or sent that tornado on their butts in the first place. They never stop to think that screaming god saved them, they are then saying the others who died in the tragedy must have been not so special because God didn't save them.

Whether you believe in God or not, it is a bit unwise to think that God will fix this mess we have made here on our planet, we made the mess we should clean it up.

[renaissanceman]

[QUOTE=renaissanceman;95951146]

The fact that so many will NOT believe ANYTHING that ANYONE says about Bush (so long as it fits their predisposition) says a lot as well.

First of all none of this has been denied by the White House, so until Bush says he did not do it, I have no reason to question it or not to believe it.

If someone calls me a rapist, I don't hold a press conference to respond to unfounded allegations. If I were arrested on the charge, THEN I might talk to the press. WHY one earth should Bush and his people respond EVERY time someone levels ANY accusation. They don't respond unless the perception is that it is HURTING them to not respond.

So, by your reasoning, if some blogger says that Bush abducted and ate Mexican kids on his latest trip to Paris, you have NO reason not to believe it, at least if he doesnt deny it?

I find it funny that everything that comes out on Bush, conservatives jump on the bandwagon that it is a lie, with absolutely no proof that it is a lie. The reason so many question it apparently is, it has not been reported on MM, look the downing street memo was not reported for six weeks here while it was all over the internet, the papers and tv elsewhere in other countries, but it proved to be true.

I find it funny how much you like to misrepresent peoples views! I Don't jump on any bandwagon. I and others (Bubbles, Jolie etc) do this for EVERY story.
Its just like the Duke "rape" case! Rushing to judgement is NOT the American way.

I don't understand this nonsense about it has to be on MM to be true. Between reporting on the antics of Hollywood, rolling their eyes and making jokes with one another, telling the latest animal feel good story or animal nightmare story and the commercials and you think they have time to report the news. Seriously give these guys a break!

Certainly there ARE stories that fall through the cracks, but come ON! You and I BOTH know that if there WERE one shred of truth to this, it would be at the top of EVERY hour. I dont understand this nonsense of denying what we KNOW to be true about American media. IF it fits the view we are selling to America, we run it til folks are SICK of hearing it.


Are you old enough to remember Reagan's Presidency? It was a dismal failure in many ways, trickle down economics, people losing their jobs, people losing their homes, a huge amount of homeless people, homeless families. I do not have many fond memories of the Reagan years. History has been kind to him, he does not deserve it.

Are you forgetting Carters legacy and how far MOST of America came after he left and Reagan took the reigns? BTW I am 36.


The GOP has been using the gay rights as far as marriage goes and the creatism and evolution as a smoke screen to whip up support and get elected for several years now, it is a way to gain support from religious folks. I think denying people the right to marry whomever they want is oppressing them. I think it is sad that so many working to deny these people rights, then turn out to be having affairs with those of their own sex on the side, sad and ironic.

EVERY one has some hypocrisy. The Liberal Dems are going to vote for gun control, for Gay Marriage and For "reproductive rights" (here to be read as the Murder of children) ANYONE who has conservative views, religious or not should vote for whomever is going to vote for the things that make our soceity safe and stable.

Why are we supposed to trust that God will solve anything? How many times have people prayed to God and found their troubles only got bigger and worse than imagined? I'm always fascinated by how people think God is going to fix things.

This shows that you not only fail to understand God, but that you don't even understand English. I do NOT believe that God will FIX our spoiled rivers for example. What I DO believe, is that through everything God is still in control. Things may get bad, but they will NEVER get so bad that we can not live here. God has a plan, and it has a timetable.

Has it ever occured to anyone that if they truly believe in God then they believe he controls all. So I find it fascinating when someone survives something horrible like a tornado and when asked how they survived it they say, "God, God saved us!"

Has it occured to YOU that your acting like you understand Christianity is like my saying I understand cannibalism? You do NOT have a personal relationship with Jesus. ANYTHING you THINK you know about him is filtered through what you have heard, read and been TAUGHT to believe....NOT through your OWN enlightenment.

I can read a book about JFK, that is NOT the same as having a personal relationship with the man for say 20 years.

Of course they never think about the fact that God allowed or sent that tornado on their butts in the first place. They never stop to think that screaming god saved them, they are then saying the others who died in the tragedy must have been not so special because God didn't save them.

Again you put a simplistic spin on a complex issue. Death did NOT exist before we ate of the tree of knowledge. Death came in through Sin. Violent storms are NOT sicced on us by a vengeful God. They are random, natural occurences. God MAY save someone who calls out to them during the storm. Maybe he has something IMPORTANT left for that person to do, (like get saved) others may NOT get to live on, because they are ready.

It has NOTHING to do with one person being more SPECIAL than the other. You just plain don't understand the mind of God.....

That's ok though. I am one of his children, I listen to his voice and I TRY to please him with my life....

I still often don't understand the mind of God. He is infinite and omniscient, we are VERY finite and don't even understand the things that affect our daily lives.

Whether you believe in God or not, it is a bit unwise to think that God will fix this mess we have made here on our planet, we made the mess we should clean it up.

I would say that it far LESS wise to think that a Creator who could whip up everything we see needs US to fix the Earth.

As if Gods shortsightedness were somehow responsible for this whole mess, and now WE the creature need to fix the creation.

Again, this doesn't let us off the hook, we DO have responsibilities. We do NOT however need to make RADICAL, extreme changes to the way we live.

That type of thinking arises because we think WE (man) are going to be here forever, or at least til our sun burns out.

[Jolie Rouge]

As for global warming, have you seen the movie, "An Inconvenient Truth", I have and while I believe Gore should hang his head in shame for not bringing his home up to the standards the rest of us are supposed to be meeting, I saw some truth in it, and while you seem to focus on the gas of the moose, something we can't do much about except feed them a lower gas emission diet, just kidding, LOL I see that even if we don't agree on the global warming and what is causing the world to heat up, whether it is a natural cycle (in the film if I recall correctly Gore shows the natural cycle of things and says it is this cycle and the addition of our pollutions) or if we are helping by polluting the world, we do need to conserve what is here.

Answer me this : if our activities are causing Global Warming - how do you account for similar changes on Mars, Jupiter, and in the changes in the Sun itself ? The only way to account for the changes throughout the Solar System is to recognise that it is a natural cycle.

Yes , we all need to Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle and to be good stewards of the Earth.

[Jolie Rouge]

As for global warming, have you seen the movie, "An Inconvenient Truth"...

http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/558870-teachers-warn-pupils-about-bias-inconvenient-truth.html

[mesue]

Answer me this : if our activities are causing Global Warming - how do you account for similar changes on Mars, Jupiter, and in the changes in the Sun itself ? The only way to account for the changes throughout the Solar System is to recognise that it is a natural cycle.

Yes , we all need to Reduce, Reuse, and Recycle and to be good stewards of the Earth.

Have you even seen the movie, Jolie?

Look Jolie many scientists agree with Gore, many don't, but I also know that someone within the Bush Administration was actually changing the wording in some scientific reports, and not any that Gore had to do with. So now that leaves me questioning anything the government is telling me about this issue. The global warming has went from being a scientific theory to a political hot potatoe and no one agrees on what is causing global warming.

If you read what you quoted in your last post I clearly state that Gore said in the movie that this warming up was a natural process that had occurred over and over again, but he views the extreme change we are seeing now as mankinds intervention, lots of scientists agree with him.

I don't know if global warming can be stopped by anything we can do, but as I have already said some common sense things we all need to do to save ourselves some money and to change the world around us is not a bad idea. Finding alternative energy sources other than oil can change not only our wealth but alter the grip OPEC and oil companies have on us.

Of course Gore just happens to be making the bigger impact in getting the message out there. My point is, it really doesn't matter if you agree with Gore, changing things to alter the world for the better is always a good thing.

[mesue]

[QUOTE=mesue;95951232]

I would say that it far LESS wise to think that a Creator who could whip up everything we see needs US to fix the Earth.

As if Gods shortsightedness were somehow responsible for this whole mess, and now WE the creature need to fix the creation.

Again, this doesn't let us off the hook, we DO have responsibilities. We do NOT however need to make RADICAL, extreme changes to the way we live.

That type of thinking arises because we think WE (man) are going to be here forever, or at least til our sun burns out.

Your religious views are clearly your own and certainly not anything close to mine. Feel free to believe as you wish as I will. I believe in freedom of religion and the right to believe as you choose to.

I don't recall calling God shortsighted, or that I thought we were going to be here forever and you talk of my misrepresenting someones views. LOL

Bush is a public figure, a very powerful man, most people are not going to put anything in print about him unless it is true, they certainly are not going to say the world leaders, other powerful people, in the private meeting said this unless they did. This story is being reported in the British MM. So until he denies it I will believe it. I am not going to wait on the corporate owned MM to tell me anything on Bush. LOL

Did they tell you about Funeralgate?

You say I am rushing to judgement to believe it, but you are just as quick to rush to judgement it can't be true because MM is not reporting it? I wonder how quick you would be to say it is a lie if it were about Clinton or Obama because MM is not reporting it?

MM is a joke, 20 minutes of Hollywood and fluff reports and 20 minutes of commercial, 10 minutes about politics and money, and then 10 minutes of what is passing for news. Sad!!! That is what just about how every hour of MM news goes.

If you recall you did not think we had been subjected to propaganda courtesy of the Bush Administration, there was probably some duirng other President's administrations as well. But the Bush Administration definitely got caught at it.

So tell me again why I should trust MM.

[renaissanceman]

[QUOTE=renaissanceman;95951631]

Your religious views are clearly your own and certainly not anything close to mine. Feel free to believe as you wish as I will. I believe in freedom of religion and the right to believe as you choose to.

I don't recall calling God shortsighted, or that I thought we were going to be here forever and you talk of my misrepresenting someones views. LOL

Bush is a public figure, a very powerful man, most people are not going to put anything in print about him unless it is true, they certainly are not going to say the world leaders, other powerful people, in the private meeting said this unless they did. This story is being reported in the British MM. So until he denies it I will believe it. I am not going to wait on the corporate owned MM to tell me anything on Bush. LOL

Did they tell you about Funeralgate?

You say I am rushing to judgement to believe it, but you are just as quick to rush to judgement it can't be true because MM is not reporting it? I wonder how quick you would be to say it is a lie if it were about Clinton or Obama because MM is not reporting it?

MM is a joke, 20 minutes of Hollywood and fluff reports and 20 minutes of commercial, 10 minutes about politics and money, and then 10 minutes of what is passing for news. Sad!!! That is what just about how every hour of MM news goes.

If you recall you did not think we had been subjected to propaganda courtesy of the Bush Administration, there was probably some duirng other President's administrations as well. But the Bush Administration definitely got caught at it.

So tell me again why I should trust MM.

Once again, it IS you who is misrepresenting peoples views. I made generalizations. MOST people who think WE need to fix the Environment, do think that MAn will be here basically forever etc. NOTICE I did NOT say that YOU felt that way.

While YOU keep on lying about me and others.

I am NOT saying that this is a lie. I AM saying that right now I do not believe it. BIG diffeence.

I have made no rush to judgement, and I treat this story EXACTLY the way I do ANY story.

Jolie and I have BOTH defended Obama, against lies and misinformation. So PLEASE stop trying to paint me as someone who will take one side as gospel while villifying the other.

You are doing a great job of that yourself, so I will leave you to it.

BTW, In every report I read the other world leaders haen't gone on record as saying ANYTHING. They don't have ONE person on record who was a witness to this.

So when you say "they certainly are not going to say the world leaders, other powerful people, in the private meeting said this unless they did."

You are technically correct, while also being dishonest...At least with yourself....Since it is more than apparent that NONE of the world leaders has said ANYTHING.

I'm really done with you if you can't be more honest.

[mesue]

[QUOTE=mesue;95951931]

Once again, it IS you who is misrepresenting peoples views. I made generalizations. MOST people who think WE need to fix the Environment, do think that MAn will be here basically forever etc. NOTICE I did NOT say that YOU felt that way.

While YOU keep on lying about me and others.

I am NOT saying that this is a lie. I AM saying that right now I do not believe it. BIG diffeence.

I have made no rush to judgement, and I treat this story EXACTLY the way I do ANY story.

Jolie and I have BOTH defended Obama, against lies and misinformation. So PLEASE stop trying to paint me as someone who will take one side as gospel while villifying the other.

You are doing a great job of that yourself, so I will leave you to it.

BTW, In every report I read the other world leaders haen't gone on record as saying ANYTHING. They don't have ONE person on record who was a witness to this.

So when you say "they certainly are not going to say the world leaders, other powerful people, in the private meeting said this unless they did."

You are technically correct, while also being dishonest...At least with yourself....Since it is more than apparent that NONE of the world leaders has said ANYTHING.

I'm really done with you if you can't be more honest.

I am being honest, I have said what I think about every issue, you are the one being dishonest. I read what you write, if you mean it a different way than you wrote it, that is hardly my fault. So this is the way you debate, you attack others on a personal level when someone challenges your ideas.

And for the first time we agree, I'm really done with you. Goodbye.

[renaissanceman]

[QUOTE=renaissanceman;95952452]

I am being honest, I have said what I think about every issue, you are the one being dishonest. I read what you write, if you mean it a different way than you wrote it, that is hardly my fault. So this is the way you debate, you attack others on a personal level when someone challenges your ideas.

And for the first time we agree, I'm really done with you. Goodbye.

Words have definitions, what I wrote is what I meant.

PLEASE show me where I have attacked you personally and I will apologize.

I am ALWAYS open to my views and ideals being challenged.

I actually admitted that there was more crap and POSSIBE lies in the build up of the war than I thought.

YOU can't seem to do the same.

This story has NOT been proven by ANY stretch of the imagination, yet you REFUSE to believe it's not true.

I'm sorry that is just not intellectually honest.

[Jolie Rouge]

What’s Barack Obama’s Excuse?
By Jimmie on Jul 22, 2008
Johnny Mac, Oh, THAT liberal media., The Obamessiah

http://www.sundriesshack.com/2008/07/22/whats-barack-obamas-excuse/

If you had been watching Barack Obama’s “press conference” in Jordan today, you would have learned two key facts:

1) “Israel is a strong friend of Israel’s…”
http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/barack_obama_amman_mispeak.html

2) “[I]t’s always a bad practice to say ‘always’ or ‘never.’”
http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODc2YzA3YzQwMmY1NWNlZDUxOGI4NjBiNmViYWUyNGI=


The funniest part of his Israel line is that he prefaced it by saying “Well let me be absolutely clear.” If he says that out of eye shot of a teleprompter, I’ll take all bets that a horrible mangling of our dear English language is imminent.

The second one is funny because it’s an elementary logical mistake that someone who was head of the Harvard Law Review and a working lawyer for a few years should never make.

Meanwhile, the MSM are insinuating that John McCain’s gaffes are a sign that he’s too old to be President. Well, okay. Fine. Let’s play that game.

John McCain will be 72 on August 29th. Let’s say that the MSM are correct and he’s too old to be President. Barack Obama, who has committed far more gaffes than McCain, will be 47 on August 4th.

So what’s his excuse?

[mesue]

Jolie, I am amazed at how much MM has continued talking about the possibility of gaffe, and how much it could mean if he really messes up. LOL They have made a huge deal over both candidates making gaffes, heck no one is perfect. I don't know which one has made the most gaffes, though the media is clearly making more of McCains, IMO.

The other thing is that they are hardly talking at all about the other candidates, Nader, Barr, and McKinny (I hope I spelled her name right). I wish there were rules about equal time to each candidate, here in the American MM.

While I am not for censorship, I think it is wrong how our media can give coverage to one or two candidates and not even cover some of the others. That really gives them too much power in dictating who we vote for President. After all no one is going to vote for someone they have never even heard of.

Equal coverage to each candidate would give us more to choose from, as it stand right now, one barely knows who is running other than Obama and McCain.

[renaissanceman]

Jolie, I am amazed at how much MM has continued talking about the possibility of gaffe, and how much it could mean if he really messes up. LOL They have made a huge deal over both candidates making gaffes, heck no one is perfect. I don't know which one has made the most gaffes, though the media is clearly making more of McCains, IMO.

The other thing is that they are hardly talking at all about the other candidates, Nader, Barr, and McKinny (I hope I spelled her name right). I wish there were rules about equal time to each candidate, here in the American MM.

While I am not for censorship, I think it is wrong how our media can give coverage to one or two candidates and not even cover some of the others. That really gives them too much power in dictating who we vote for President. After all no one is going to vote for someone they have never even heard of.

Equal coverage to each candidate would give us more to choose from, as it stand right now, one barely knows who is running other than Obama and McCain.

Sadly the other candidates really don't matter.

When was the last time a President was elected who was someone OTHER than the The GOP or DNC's chosen?

I'd settle for equal and BALANCED coverage of the 2 main candidates, which we just aren't getting.