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Cooter
11-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Ok, I know that this is another issue that has been debated so much but I have a personal stake in this.
My SIL was murdered by her boyfriend, I mean it was a brutal murder. He shot her three times in the face and buried her in a shallow grave. This was in Dec 1988, in Georgia. He then went up to Ohio and shot and killed a school teacher on Christmas Eve. Then he went to have Christmas with his mom and family. All the while we are searching for our loved one. He turned himself in on New Years Eve and then he couldn't "remember" where he buried her. It took us till January 6th to find her body.
He was, of course found guilty of murder, he did confess too.
He has been on death row since then. He finally exhausted all his appeals (another issue another time..) and was fixing to have a date set for his execution. We are of course ready for this day. Then comes up all this bull about the method of execution, the needle, is cruel and unusual punishment. WHAT???? Cruel???? What about the victims??? What about the family left behind???? They are staying executions until this case against it is heard by the US Supreme Court. This is a bunch of Bull.
He has sat on Death Row for about 19 years and getting free 3 square meals a day. He gets to breath......all the while my SIL doesn't get to enjoy anything.
My youngest son doesn't even get to know her. He was only a year old when this happened. I am so mad that I can't even think straight. What happened to justice??
Thanks for letting me vent on this subject. It is hard to talk with my husband cause he gets so upset about it. He gets his hopes up only to have them squashed.

gonnascream
11-23-2007, 01:47 PM
I feel for you. I know it's bullshit, the way the so called justice system works. They give more rights to the criminals than they do the rest of us. Most of those that think that the death penalty is cruel have never been hurt in the same way you have. So really I don't think they need to get involved.


Hopefully once he's gone you can heal.

JKATHERINE
11-23-2007, 01:48 PM
I feel for you and am sorry for your loss. I've never gone through anything like that, but I can tell you personally, that I don't think there's such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to people being put to death...essentially they tortured their victims or their victim's loved ones by taking them away...they can die a painful death as far as I'm concerned.

Cooter
11-23-2007, 01:52 PM
Thank you so much for your support. It really does mean alot to hear other people feel the same way.

ahippiechic
11-23-2007, 02:00 PM
1st, i'm soory for what you've been thru.

I don't believe in capital punishment. But if they are going to do it, then they need to do it and get it over with. To me, sitting in a jail cell for years, with that sentence hanging over my head, would be cruel and unusual punishment, worse then the execution itself.

If someone is sentenced to death, there should be atime limit on appeals etc. That is torture for the victims family aslo.

dcut4
11-23-2007, 02:13 PM
I am sorry that you and your family and that of the other victims are still having to deal with him. He made a choice by his actions and is now crying cruel and unusual.....did his victim have the choice? I always thought these SOB's should have to go through the same things that they CHOSE to inflict on others.

Army-Mom
11-23-2007, 02:57 PM
I am so sorry for your loss..I lost my brother to a brutal killing in Jan. myself. You are in my prayers and thoughts..sending hugs..

YankeeMary
11-23-2007, 03:01 PM
I can't imagine the pain your family has suffered. I will pray that one day you all can find some type of comfort. HUGS!!!

krissy904
11-23-2007, 03:18 PM
1st, i'm soory for what you've been thru.

I don't believe in capital punishment. But if they are going to do it, then they need to do it and get it over with. To me, sitting in a jail cell for years, with that sentence hanging over my head, would be cruel and unusual punishment, worse then the execution itself.

If someone is sentenced to death, there should be atime limit on appeals etc. That is torture for the victims family aslo.

it would be nice to be assured that everyone that is convicted on capital murder and given a penalty of death is indeed guilty, but history proves that simply is not the case. check any search engine for how many death row inmates have been released after further evidence has been found their gulit to be overturned. the convicted must be given the opportunity to go through the process of appeals otherwise we may very put someone to death someone that was not guilty, just found guilty in a court of law. trial and law, especially those as complicated as homicide, are not a simple case of "yep, he looks guilty, the evidence looks like he's guilty, let's insert the needle and start the potassium drip (or whatever the state chooses). what if you were on the other side of the bars are everything pointed toward your guilt, and you could not convince anyone that you didn't do it? wouldn't you hope that you would be provided the right to appeal? time limit? on what? potentially an innnocent life? unless we saw the crime, no one can prove to us (or at least me) that someone is guilty beyond reasonable doubt. I doubt if they'd ever let me sit on a murder trial jury. I would always have reasonable doubt. always. unless I saw it....murders witnessed, yes, I agree, death penalty PROVIDED that the witness is someone that has absolutely no motive to commit purjury, which probably happens much more than I even care to think about.

BeanieLuvR
11-23-2007, 03:22 PM
I feel for you. I know it's bullshit, the way the so called justice system works. They give more rights to the criminals than they do the rest of us. Most of those that think that the death penalty is cruel have never been hurt in the same way you have. So really I don't think they need to get involved.


Hopefully once he's gone you can heal.


I feel for you and am sorry for your loss. I've never gone through anything like that, but I can tell you personally, that I don't think there's such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to people being put to death...essentially they tortured their victims or their victim's loved ones by taking them away...they can die a painful death as far as I'm concerned.

This is how I feel about it too.

ahippiechic
11-23-2007, 03:22 PM
Honestly, we can never know FOR SURE that someone is guilty unless we see it with our own eyes. And I don't disagree with their right to appeal. But for 19 years???

krissy904
11-23-2007, 06:07 PM
Honestly, we can never know FOR SURE that someone is guilty unless we see it with our own eyes. And I don't disagree with their right to appeal. But for 19 years???

I agree, 19 years is too long, but the convicted does not choose the schedule for appeals. and unless things have changed since the last time I studied death penalty law (no I am not an attorney, I am an RN and have completed extensive study in the psychopathology of homicide which fascinates me -sicko, yes!) most states have a rather timely/lengthly list of mandatory appeals. and generally (no arguments, I said generally) when someone is sentenced to death (rather than a life sentence) the state pays for all of the appeals. And again generally, a death row inmate actually, in many facilities, has many priviliviges not given to the general prison population. Is this right? I suppose it depends on whether or not the convicted is truly guilty of the crime in which he/she has been convicted. As I said before, they absolutely would not want me on a jury trial for homicide.
But even with all of this said, I actually do believe in capital punishment. Oh, and no, I have never killed anyone, heck I never even killed a fish. Well, I did kill a mosquito a few days ago.

delSol
11-23-2007, 06:24 PM
Ok,
He was, of course found guilty of murder, he did confess too.




sounds guilty beyond a reasonable doubt to me - should have been killed long ago

I think the ones let go after being wrongfully accused are mostly from before dna testing has gotten as good as it is now and I don't think the numbers are high enough to keep all the real bad guys alive "just in case"

we are having a terrible time down here with cop murders and I really think it is because the penalty is what - 10 years max for murder (after time off for good behavior of course)

crimes no longer fit the penalty (I think I said that backwards but you know what I mean)

Bliss
11-23-2007, 07:01 PM
I'm all for capital punishment - Those who kill should be killed in return. No waiting 20 yrs, no appeals to prolong the murders life, no nothing. The victims families do not need to be drug through the crap over and over because some sorry piece of crap thinks their live should be spared.

There's nothing at all cruel & unussual about a little prick from a needle or sitting in prison. Those two things can't even come close in comparison of what the victims went through...

Although some inmates received Life in prison without the possibility of parole after being on death row doesn't make them "innocent" of the crime. If the inmate was innocent s/he would be released.


I'm sure if the case is a high profile case the killer has hundreds of scumpals witting everyday proposing marriage. There are some sick deranged women out there who are starved for attention they need to seek out a killer to gain notoriety.

Anyway, I hope justice prevails & the death row inmate gets what he's had coming to him for a very long time.

tsquared
11-23-2007, 07:41 PM
In the USA the victim is guilty until proven innocent and the attacker is innocent until proven guilty........

ilovecats
11-23-2007, 08:25 PM
In the USA the victim is guilty until proven innocent and the attacker is innocent until proven guilty........

This is so true,how sad!
I too want to know how lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment?
cruel and unusual punishment is what the freak did to the innocent.
I am against the death penalty unless there is absolute proof(dna,confession,etc)because I have seen too many stories of someone proven innocent after years and years in jail(in those cases,good thing it took years before they killed the wrong person).Just speaking my thoughts here,op.I realize in your case he obviously DID do it.

okie
11-23-2007, 11:07 PM
I am sorry that you and your family and that of the other victims are still having to deal with him. He made a choice by his actions and is now crying cruel and unusual.....did his victim have the choice? I always thought these SOB's should have to go through the same things that they CHOSE to inflict on others.

I agree, getting a needle just seems too easy. Make them suffer some the way their victim did. There should be no reason these people are on death row for so long. It's not right to make the family go through that. Give them their appeals and make it quick but make their death slow and as painful as possible.

Cooter
11-24-2007, 08:01 PM
Thank you everyone for your support.
To answer the question about "why the lethal injection is considered cruel and unusual".
Ok, this is according to the lawsuit that was filed on behalf of someone in Kentucky, which the US Supreme Court has agreed to hear. There are 3 injections. The first one paralizes the person, the second one puts you to sleep, and the third one stops your heart. According to the lawsuit it states that the "convict" is paralized and can't tell the doctor if they are actually completely out of it. Ummm, big deal!!!
Did he make sure that my SIL wasn't feeling any pain???? NOPE.
He shot her one time in the face, went to sit down on the front porch, she came outside and supposely attacked him when he shot her a second time. Then he stuffed her in the small trunk of her car and went to a dirt road. Went to sleep, she woke him up moving around in the trunk, this pissed him off and he opened the trunk and shot her a third time in the face. Then he buried her in a shallow grave.
Ok, where is her justice??? Thats all I want to know.
Again, thank you for everyone's support. I will keep ya'll updated on what happens in this case.

Corinna
11-24-2007, 10:42 PM
I think lethal injection is the easiest way out. I personally think that the punishment should mirror the crime. I don't think there would be as many murders if people knew for sure that is what would happen to them. I know it would make me think twice. 19 years is a long time to make the tax payers feed and keep a killer. I do hope it's over for you and your family soon.

Bliss
11-25-2007, 03:22 AM
Here's an artical that will describe the cocktail...

Attack on Texas' lethal injections is bogus

by State Sen. Kyle Janek (Republican, Houston), an anesthesiologist

"These hardened criminals never again will murder, rape or deal drugs. As governor, I made sure they received the ultimate punishment - death - and Texas is a safer place for it." -- Former Gov. Mark White

For the reason succinctly stated above, the vast majority of Texans support the death penalty.

In fact, the most recent survey on the subject - a Scripps Howard Texas poll conducted last year - found that 76 % of Texans support capital punishment. With one notable dip to 42 % in 1966, such a high level of public support generally has held true over the last 50 years.

Having no hope of overturning capital punishment itself at the ballot box or through the court system, a few vocal death penalty opponents, including inmates, have rolled out a new strategy to change how it is carried out. In what amounts to practicing medicine without a license, those critics have started to attack the inclusion of pancuronium bromide as one of the medications used in the lethal injection process. They claim its use is "cruel and unusual."

Is pancuronium bromide some new, untested drug whose sole purpose is to torture? Is it perhaps an exotic street drug that should be outlawed? Well, actually ... no.

Pancuronium bromide is a federally approved medication used routinely in hundreds of thousands of medical procedures in this country every year. I know that because, as a licensed, practicing anesthesiologist for the last 20 years, I have given pancuronium bromide and similar drugs to thousands of patients in the operating room, albeit with different results.

As any other anesthesiologist will tell you, this argument involving pancuronium bromide is bogus. But for the sake of argument, let's look at the science.

The Texas Department of Criminal Justice uses 3 drugs in its administration of the death penalty: sodium pentothal, pancuronium bromide and potassium chloride.

Sodium pentothal is a barbiturate that until about 10 years ago was the most widely used medication for inducing general anesthesia. (It has since been displaced somewhat by newer drugs that cause fewer side effects upon awakening. For obvious reasons, that isn't a concern for death penalty cases.)

It is important to understand that sodium pentothal is given to an inmate 1st to render him completely unconscious and insensible to pain. For example, a normal surgical dose for a man weighing 220 pounds would be about 300 milligrams. Yet for lethal injection, the inmate receives 3 grams - or 10 times the normal amount based on body weight.

I can attest with all medical certainty that anyone receiving that massive dose will be under anesthesia.

The 2nd of the three drugs given in a lethal injection is pancuronium bromide - the subject of so much recent scrutiny.

Pancuronium bromide and its newer cousins are members of a class called neuromuscular blockers. Simply put, those drugs paralyze the body's skeletal muscles. In a lethal injection, the effect of the drug is to relax the chest wall muscles and the diaphragm in the now unconscious inmate.

Now, as has been noted elsewhere, the American Veterinary Medical Association has adopted guidelines for euthanasia that preclude the use of this drug - when it is the only medication given. In other words, it shouldn't be used in animals that are awake.

Some critics recently opined against using pancuronium bromide as part of lethal injection, noting that the state bans its use in animal shelters "because of its potential to shield pain and suffering."

Actually, state law makes no mention of the drug. Rather, it specifically names pentobarbital and compressed carbon monoxide as the drugs that must be used. That was to address some abuses brought forth by animal rights groups that had nothing to do with pancuronium bromide.

The last chemical in the three-drug lethal injection formula is potassium chloride, whose immediate effect in the dose given is to stop the heart and hasten death. In large doses given rapidly to a patient who is awake, the medication would cause pain in the arm due to irritation of the veins through which it courses. But for the sake of emphasis, we aren't talking here about a patient who is awake or even remotely conscious at this point.

The current argument against executions seems to hinge on the supposition that the second and 3rd drugs in this regimen would be cruel to someone who could feel them - and, to be candid, that assertion is true, since the pancuronium would cause a patient to be paralyzed and unable to respond to the pain of the potassium injection.

Yet for that argument to be valid in any way, you must ignore the 1st drug in the process - sodium pentothal - that (1) renders the inmate to be completely unconscious, (2) has been used for decades to induce anesthesia in surgical patients and (3) is given in doses far exceeding what is needed to keep the inmate from being aware or feeling anything.

Regardless of one's feelings about the death penalty as a moral punishment, as a deterrent or whether it is meted out fairly - this latest objection has neither logic nor science to support it. If it did, it would follow that anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists in this country have been treating patients "unconstitutionally" for decades.

Some years ago, a similar - and unsuccessful - protest was raised that the drugs given for lethal injection hadn't been approved by the Food and Drug Administration as being "safe and effective." Such logic is every bit as tortured as the current flap over pancuronium bromide.

--This article originally appeared in the Houston Chronicle.

Mom2Shaun
11-25-2007, 11:50 AM
I'm so sorry your family went through such a horrific experience. I can understand how you feel. I hope you will all find peace soon.

PrincessArky
11-26-2007, 09:44 AM
I feel for you and am sorry for your loss. I've never gone through anything like that, but I can tell you personally, that I don't think there's such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to people being put to death...essentially they tortured their victims or their victim's loved ones by taking them away...they can die a painful death as far as I'm concerned.

ITA

PinkAquila
11-27-2007, 10:14 AM
I feel for you and am sorry for your loss. I've never gone through anything like that, but I can tell you personally, that I don't think there's such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment" when it comes to people being put to death...essentially they tortured their victims or their victim's loved ones by taking them away...they can die a painful death as far as I'm concerned.

I think that the families of the victims should be the ones to administer the death penalty. If it was left up to me, then it would be cruel and unusual.... just my thoughts

Cooter
11-27-2007, 07:32 PM
My husband wants to be the one who pushes the plunger on the injection needle. He has already told me that he WILL be in the room while this happens. He wants to look the guy in the eye. I, of course, will be right by his side like I have been through this whole ordeal. Thanks for you support.

kelblend
11-28-2007, 10:18 PM
I am truly sorry for all of your pain and suffering.