Meet the Frosts' : The Dem's Poster Family for SCHIP

[Jolie Rouge]

Look Again At The Frost Facts
...And Don't Back Down
10-11-07

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1909842/posts

Conservatives often complain that republicans back down, that they have no spine, that they wilt when faced with criticism of "but its for the children!" Will the fight over the S-CHIP expansion veto be a repeat?

Many media outlets and left wing blogs are crowing about all the supposed falsehoods contained in my original post.

Before you go running for the hills, tail between your legs, can we at least take a look at each and every point made in that post? You know, the one that "attacks a 12 year old boy".

I keep hearing how all my info was wrong, how it was all debunked as lies etc etc etc... but really there was only 1 major thing i was off on- the family paid a lower tuition amount at the exclusive Park school due to financial aid. This does not change the fact they are still paying for private school, just at a lower rate, while others are paying for their kids health care costs.

So that's what I was off on. Lets see what I got right:

"Graeme Frost, who gave the democrat rebuttal to George Bush’s reasons for vetoing the SCHIP Bill, is a middle school student at the exclusive$20,000 per year Park School in Baltimore, MD.

100% true

-------------

"Graeme was in a severe car accident three years ago, and received care paid for by the government program known as SCHIP-(State Children's Health Insurance Program)"

100% true

---------------------------

"I was in a coma for a week and couldn't eat or stand up or even talk. My sister was even worse," Graeme wrote. "My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but we can't afford private health insurance."


Direct quote from article

---------------------------

"His sister Gemma, also severely injured in the accident, attended the same school prior to the accident"


100% true and now we learn that all 4 attended private school. After the accident, Gemma began attending a new special needs school paid for by the state.

---------------------------

meaning the family was able to come up with nearly $40,000 per year for tuition for these 2 grade schoolers.


Dealt with above.

---------------------------


Confirmation both attended Park found here using edit-"find on this page"-Gemma. It will take you to an article in the schools newspaper about a fundraiser for Gemma class of 16, and Graeme class of 13.


100% true

---------------------------

"Here are photos of the school's 44,000 square foot Wyman Arts Center: two galleries, an outdoor ampitheater, Meyerhoff Theater, Macks-Fidler Black Box Theater, practice rooms, rehearsal space, and ceramics, 3-D sculpture, woodworking, jewelry, painting, photography, digital graphics studios, recording studio, and keyboard lab.


100% true

---------------------------

In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year."

100% true

---------------------------

"Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work."

Direct quote from article. Somewhat misleading to say he can't get it through work, when he's self employed.

---------------------------

"What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company "Frostworks",since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992

True, under the name Frostworks to 1999/2000 and then, after working as an architectural designer and manager of a small custom cabinet shop, under a new company name. The Baltimore Sun confirms he is presently self employed.

---------------------------

..."so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as "bookkeeper and operations management" prior to her recent 2007 hire at the "medical publishing firm".


100% true

---------------------------

As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.


Unconfirmed, hence the "apparently". Its safe to say she would not have switched jobs away from one that offered health insurance to one that doesn't.

---------------------------

His company, Frostworks, is located at **** E BALTIMORE ST.

Which it was, and is still is according to Baltimore.com's business search for cabinet makers. Changing the name you use for your company does not change your business location.

---------------------------

"A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999."

100% true

---------------------------


"The buildings owner is listed as DIVERSIFIED INDUSTRIAL DESIGN CENTER, LLC whose mailing address is listed as *** S Collington Ave which is the Frost's home."

100% true

---------------------------

"The commercial property he owns is also listed as the business address for another company called Reillys Designs"

100% true

---------------------------

Which leads to the question of whether rental income is included in the above mentioned salary total.

100% true-The fact they receive rental income has been confirmed but the Baltimore Sun did not ask if it was included in their claimed 45-50k combined "income" (though they did ask for access to a tax return and the Frosts refused.)

---------------------------


"The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at *** S Collington Ave is unknown but *** S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF.


100% true

This has also been a source of many claims of mistaken information. While other blogs or radio shows may have made the mistake of saying all homes in the area sell for 400-500k- or that the Frosts paid 485k for their home, my information was correct. I compared the home to a recently sold SMALLER home only a few doors down that was also an end unit. Citing tax assessments of 260k (which are always lower than market value) is disingenuous. A fellow freeper early in the thread posted a zillow estimate of approximately 350k and Michelle Malkin's infamous "stalking tour" led her to say that estimates of 500k were too high. So much for the idea that the blogger mob were not interested in getting their facts straight. I'm sure all the media trucks Time magazine says are parked near the home will also be called stalkers-right?

---------------------------


"A photo taken in the family's kitchen shows what appears to be a recent remodeling job"

100% true. The home remodeling has been confirmed by the Frosts in the Sun article.

---------------------------

with granite counter tops


FALSE-The kitchen had concrete counters rather than granite. The left is really milking this one and its mention in this AP article was the only example they used from my entire post. This is such a silly point and was simply an observation about the photo the Sun used to show the family... but since even USA Today is making a big deal out of it, sigh, lets take a look:

"Concrete countertops are a custom crafted material for high end use and are often specified by designers or architects.


Consumers, in some cases think of concrete as being a cheaper alternative to other available countertop surfaces. Concrete countertops should be sold (or bought) based on being a beautiful, custom, handmade, relatively unique product. Customers going in thinking the countertops will be low budget items will quickly find out otherwise.


Concrete countertops range from $65 to $125 per square foot.

Granite countertops range from $60-$120 per square foot.


So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite so I don't quite get the left's glee on that one.


I'm sure Olberman will have something to say like "Just when you think this story could not get any lower, we are now reduced to arguing cost differences of granite vs concrete countertops". Yep, it is silly. Maybe the AP and USA Today should stop harping on it and instead focus on whether families of higher means than than the Frosts really need tax payer financed health care.

---------------------------

and glass front cabinets


100% true

---------------------------

One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home

100% true

---------------------------

send kids to exclusive private schools,

100% true

---------------------------

purchase commercial property

100% true

---------------------------

and run your own business

100% true

---------------------------

maybe money can be found for other things...


My opinion.

( continues )

[Jolie Rouge]

maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.


My opinion. On second look, a bit snippy but the central point is true. There have to be jobs out there with healthplans for someone with:

"over twenty years experience in architectural construction. Fine architectural woodworking/ cabinetmaking Residential and commercial construction. Industrial systems manufacturing, pipefitting, electrical control. Architectural design, CAD 2D & 3D modeling & rendering (Vectorworks/Renderworks)Construction management(All types)."

I know we all would like to be our own boss but sometimes you just have to settle for a good job with health insurance.

--------------------------


Not being a reporter and doing this all in about 3 hours using Google can bring me all the criticism in the world, but to say my info is all lies or has been disproved is not correct. As is the assertion that I somehow "attacked" a 12 year old.

BTW, I hope the Sun spent a little more than 3 hours researching their story.

"I am incredibly thankful," said Frost, who works full time for a medical publishing firm.

Baltimore Sun September 27


vs


"...while Bonnie works part time for a medical publishing firm."
Baltimore Sun October 11, 2007

----------------------


Some other things that have not been answered:
Why are neither the family home nor their commercial property listed on tax forms as being their primary residence?

Why is the family home listed as the "office" of the Limited Liability Corporation that owns the commercial property?

Why, if the family is so quick to announce how much they earn each year in every interview they do, does the family refuse the Baltimore Sun's request to examine their tax return?

Hmmmmmm, makes me wonder why the Baltimore Sun is not being accused of "attacking a 12 year old boy"?


I’d also like to say something to Mr. and Mrs. Frost. Maybe a media type reading this can get this to them:

I want you to know that I’m truly sorry for what happened to your family. I hope your kids continue with their recovery and I hope your business improves to the point where you will not need the S-CHIP program anymore. I’m sure you are not pleased at my interest in your finances but at the same time I hope you will see there is absolutely no attack on your son contained in my post.

You made a choice to become public figures, to allow your son to be coached to give the democrat response to president Bush’s veto of the expansion of S-CHIP. An expansion that would wind up covering my family as well. As I understand it, his veto does not take away your family’s coverage. Overturning that veto would mean my family would get that coverage.

In my opinion this would take our country further down the road to government run health care. We both have seen what the government has done running the public schools and that is why we both have opted for private schooling.

Your family opted to appear in the Baltimore Sun as a model of the type of family that currently uses S-CHIP, mine could be a model of the type that that it shouldn’t be expanded to. We have a nice home, 2 cars, all 4 kids in private school and are able to spend 2 weeks at the beach each year. I just don’t think its fair for other people to have to pay for my families health care. My wife and I would love to run our own business, but our decisions on employment are usually focused on who provides the best health care first, what we want to do second.

I thought it was important to examine what families using S-CHIP in its current form were like so we could understand if there really was a need to expand it to higher income families. You choose to be that family in the spotlight and I’m sorry you now have to face this examination.

Soon the media trucks will be gone and life will be back to somewhat normal. I keep you and your family in my prayers.




with granite counter tops


FALSE-The kitchen had concrete counters rather than granite. The left is really milking this one and its mention in this AP article was the only example they used from my entire post. This is such a silly point and was simply an observation about the photo the Sun used to show the family... but since even USA Today is making a big deal out of it, sigh, lets take a look:

"Concrete countertops are a custom crafted material for high end use and are often specified by designers or architects.


Consumers, in some cases think of concrete as being a cheaper alternative to other available countertop surfaces. Concrete countertops should be sold (or bought) based on being a beautiful, custom, handmade, relatively unique product. Customers going in thinking the countertops will be low budget items will quickly find out otherwise.


Concrete countertops range from $65 to $125 per square foot.

Granite countertops range from $60-$120 per square foot.


So the funny thing is, according to these links, concrete counters are actually MORE expensive than granite so I don't quite get the left's glee on that one.


I'm sure Olberman will have something to say like "Just when you think this story could not get any lower, we are now reduced to arguing cost differences of granite vs concrete countertops". Yep, it is silly. Maybe the AP and USA Today should stop harping on it and instead focus on whether families of higher means than than the Frosts really need tax payer financed health care.

concrete counter tops have been featured on This Old House. They even did a feature on how they are made at the old Brooklyn Navy Yard in a factory built as part of the commercialization of that facility. This is not dad pouring ready-mix in a form made out of plywood and 2x4’s. It is a very nice looking product with a high recycle content (part of the show was looking at all the ground up beer bottles used to make the countertop). So don’t let “concrete” make it sound cheaper that it was. TOH does very little on the cheap.

Concrete's Changing Colors By: Keith Pandolfi, This Old House magazine, July/August 2007. "... Expect to pay $75 to $150 per square foot, about on par with granite. ..."
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/photos/0,,20050150,00.html

--

The fact of the matter is—the main point of this whole story is that the Democrats used a little kid to hide behind and attack President Bush when he vetoed the BullSCHIP thing—THEY should have done THEIR research better and found a ‘real’ poverty stricken family to front their attacks, and not this Frost family, who may or may not be innocent in this story, who knows. I sincerely doubt that, though, the Frosts know they could have had insurance BEFORE the children were hurt, and they chose not to have it...they got help from the SCHIP program (which hasn’t been destroyed by the veto, for Pete’s sake) when, if all the facts were revealed, they probably didn’t qualify for it—let the MSM and tax-spending libs complain all they want.

[tigger4]

I heard a Republican Senator the other day state the children attend the private school on scholarship.

Yes, maybe he could get insurance on his own. But at what cost? What will they have to do without to pay for the insurance?

My kids get SCHIP and we make more than they do. Of course, we have 4 kids and live in WA state. We can get insurance for the kids through DH's employer. It will be $600 a month for the family. Our middle daughter has a lot of allergies to medications, environmental things, and asthma. With the amount of doctors appointments and medications she takes we would be paying out of pocket over $400 a month (this is on top of the $600 for insurance). Then, there are still 3 other children who are on medications and need to see the doctor.

We already put out over $300 a month on my medications and this is with our co-pay.

I don't think they are taking into consideration the expense of insurance and the lack of care you receive with your insurance.

[Bahet]

We applied for private insurnce as we don't have any. For the low, low price of $500/month we get to pay only the 1st $5000 of medical expenses every year. Oh yippie.

[tigger4]

We applied for private insurnce as we don't have any. For the low, low price of $500/month we get to pay only the 1st $5000 of medical expenses every year. Oh yippie.

My husband works for an international commercial real estate brokerage firm. If you live in MI your only choice for insurance through them is $1400 a month for a family and you pay the first $6,000 and after that they cover 60%. Yeah, that's a bargain.

[hblueeyes]

I need to get on this program, yet for some reason they think our 14K -20K a year is enough for my family of 3 since they will not allow us to claim my 2 sons who are 19 and 20. We never qualify for anything.

me

[tigger4]

You can't claim 19 and 20 year olds as dependents unless they are still in college. Doesn't matter if they still live with you or not. They are adults.

This program is for children, not adults. I do agree that states need to stop using SCHIP money for adults and just put them on straight Medicaid.

[hblueeyes]

So why then were we told that my 22 and 23 year olds (19 years old at the time of college) were in college were not eligible. My oldest was in sports and his school required insurance to play in sports. So that added $4K onto his tuition every year. My other son was also in college, not in sports and had no insurance because we could not afford it. When he got very sick last year he went to student services. Told them what he had and they said, no its an ear infection. He ended up coming home and in the emergency room, where he was hospitalized. They had a hard time getting an IV in him because he was so dehydrated, his veins kept collapsing. Fortunately the hospital bill was covered by the hospital but we are stck paying over $1K for the doctors.They were both full time students at in state private schools on academic scholarships. How is it that they did not qualify?

Me

[tigger4]

I am sorry I wasn't clearer earlier.

If you had private insurance your children would be covered until they were 24 if they are still in college. Most insurances work this way.

With state medical at the age of 18 they are considered to be adults (even if they are still in high school) and have to apply for their own medical benefits.

For a family of 2, $14,000 to $20,000 a year is too much money to qualify for assistance. Although in the state I live in if you made $14,000 a year you would qualify for medical and food stamps. At $20,000 you would not be eligible for anything. But things are so expensive here I don't think anyone could live on $14,000 a year. That wouldn't even be the minimum wage here.

[Jolie Rouge]

And so many of these stories are good examples of what a poor choice the Dems made in choosing the Frosts' as their "Poster Family" for SCHIP.

Why don't we try getting the millions of children elligable for the program who are NOT enrolled on the plan as it exists before expanding the coverage to upper-middle class families or illegal aliens ? Why not take the 300 MILLION dollars annually given to Planned Parenthood and place that into the CHIP program ?

[tigger4]

And so many of these stories are good examples of what a poor choice the Dems made in choosing the Frosts' as their "Poster Family" for SCHIP.

Why don't we try getting the millions of children elligable for the program who are NOT enrolled on the plan as it exists before expanding the coverage to upper-middle class families or illegal aliens ? Why not take the 300 MILLION dollars annually given to Planned Parenthood and place that into the CHIP program ?

I don't think they should take the money from Planned Parenthood. They offer services on a sliding fee scale, so they help out people who don't even have insurance.

[Jolie Rouge]

I don't think they should take the money from Planned Parenthood. They offer services on a sliding fee scale, so they help out people who don't even have insurance.

One third of PP budget is federally funded; why don't the "pro-choicers" put up their money to support their choices and then there will be more monies available to take care of the children for whom you are so concerned about. ( The arguements you present in the "Abortion" thread remind me of the PETA crowd that wanted the polar bear cub put down rather then have the endangered species maintained in captivity : ie - if you really love it - kill it ) :confused:

[b]Compromises sought on kids' health
By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer
Mon Oct 29, 7:36 AM ET

WASHINGTON - President Bush and other critics of a $35 billion spending increase for children's health insurance say they'll support expanding coverage to families of four making as much as $62,000 a year, but they want to limit states' ability to go beyond that level.

About three dozen states ignore certain income when determining who can get government-subsidized health coverage. For example, many states exclude child support payments. Others deduct expenses for child care when determining who qualifies for the State Children's Health Insurance Program.

Congress is considering the renewal of SCHIP for an additional five years, but differences remain over who the program should cover and how much money should be spent. The flexibility that states have in defining income is one of the differences that will probably need to be resolved for Democrats to override a promised veto from Bush.

So far, the issue of "income disregards" has received little attention, but that started to change in last week's debate on the House floor. "You leave it up to the states to say you can't have an income level over 300 percent (of poverty), but you can deduct $20,000 for a housing allowance or you can deduct $15,000 for shelter or whatever," said Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas. "So, what you've got here is the classic bait and switch."

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., said that allowing states to exempt some income helps to ensure that low-income families don't have to resort to welfare to get health care for their children.

Another disagreement over the program's future is over the coverage of adults, even though the Bush administration approved most of the waivers that allowed adults into the SCHIP program. Now, the administration wants to remove those adults from the SCHIP rolls more quickly than called for in the bill that passed the House last week.

Under that bill, states would have to move an estimated 200,000 childless adults off SCHIP within one year. Also, by 2010, waivers covering about 500,000 parents would be paid from a separate fund. States that perform well on covering low-income children could continue covering parents through that fund, which would get a lower federal matching rate than under current policy, Dingell said.

Just last year, administration officials testified during congressional hearings that extending SCHIP coverage to parents increased the likelihood that their children would get health insurance too. But Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt now calls the coverage of parents an experiment that took resources away from poor kids. About a dozen states received waivers to cover parents through SCHIP. "All adults should be moved off SCHIP when their state waivers come up for renewal or within one year, whichever comes sooner," said a policy statement issued by the White House last week.

The bill that passed the House on Thursday would allow about 3.9 million more uninsured children into SCHIP by 2012 — on top of the 6 million now enrolled. An additional 2 million children would leave private coverage by then and enroll in SCHIP, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

The president had recommended spending an additional $5 billion for SCHIP over the next five years. The bipartisan bill before Congress calls for a $35 billion increase, bringing total spending to $60 billion.

The administration announced last week that it could support policies that require more money than it previously recommended. Still, Leavitt cited about $10 billion that he believes should be trimmed from the bill before Congress.

The administration remains adamant that it won't support a tobacco tax increase to pay for SCHIP's expansion. Instead, it's calling on lawmakers to pick from $96 billion worth of new fees or spending cuts that were part of the president's budget this fiscal year. However, most of those proposals generated little support in Congress.

Among those recommendations were higher co-payments at the pharmacy for some veterans who are not disabled. Their copays would increase from $8 to $15 under the president's budget, saving about $1.6 billion over five years.

Bush also wants to make higher-income Medicare recipients pay more for their drug coverage as well as for their insurance for doctors' visits. Higher premiums for the drug benefit and doctors' services would generate more than $10 billion over five years, according to his budget. The bill to expand SCHIP relies on a 156 percent increase in the federal cigarette tax, taking it to $1 per pack from the current 39 cents.

Supporters of the tax increase cite high public support for a tobacco tax. The Kaiser Family Foundation released a poll Friday showing that about 70 percent of those polled supported expanding SCHIP by $35 billion through higher tobacco taxes.

Tobacco tax supporters say higher prices for cigarettes deter smoking and save lives. "The health benefits of higher cigarette taxes are substantial," says a 1990 report from the surgeon general. "By reducing smoking, particularly among youth and young adults, past tax increases have significantly reduced smoking-related morbidity and mortality."

The Senate is expected to take up next week the bill passed by the House. Democratic leaders are scheduled to meet Monday with a handful of Republicans seen as crucial to deciding whether more changes to the bill will give backers the all-important two-thirds majority necessary to override a veto.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071029/ap_on_go_co/children_s_health;_ylt=Aom8IyMJHKQDzFE55EfY0l5h24c A

[tigger4]

Jolie, you know as well as I do that Planned Parenthood is not just an abortion clinic. They offer many services including pap smears, STD testing, birth control, etc. So, your whole why don't the pro-choicers pony up the money is bull and you know it.