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sandy66
10-10-2007, 06:58 AM
Please sign the petitiion for Pastor's to pray freely especially in war zones, like in Jesus name as an example. Just cut & paste it. Thanks

Today, I am asking you to add your voice to tens of thousands of concerned ACLJ members in support of our chaplains - by signing our PETITION TO PROTECT MILITARY PRAYER to President George W. Bush right now. We are going straight to the White House to win this battle ONCE AND FOR ALL!

Army-Mom
10-10-2007, 10:06 AM
Where is the link?? I beleive they should be able to pray..my son is over there.

freeby4me
10-10-2007, 10:15 AM
I didnt know they werent allowed to.

ahippiechic
10-10-2007, 10:26 AM
Are they not allowed to? And if they aren't, then why?

tigger4
10-10-2007, 07:29 PM
They can pray. They just have to do their services non-denominational.

ahippiechic
10-10-2007, 07:37 PM
They can pray. They just have to do their services non-denominational.

Well, then no one should be offended by it, and maybe more will attend.

freeby4me
10-11-2007, 04:16 AM
Yea then I see no problem with it. We definately dont need this war on our end to turn into a holy war.

sandy66
10-11-2007, 07:47 AM
[QUOTE=sandy66;95697520
Please sign the petitiion for Pastor's to pray freely especially in war zones, like in Jesus name as an example. Just cut & paste it. Thanks
I don't know what happened to the thread!!!!!!!! Here it is again. Thanks.
You supposed to pray in certain ways, saying certain things not watching everything you say! Thank God my Great Nephew, survived Iraq, now stationed in N. Korea
Here's one link.

https://www.aclj.org/Petition/Default.aspx?AC=DNE0710006&SC=3292&email=msallen6@yahoo.com&guid=FAA048A9-8996-4A2A-9C12-E12A91C81717

ahippiechic
10-11-2007, 07:55 AM
Anyone can pray, any way they want, any where they want, any time they want.....a prayer is between that person and their God.

tigger4
10-11-2007, 08:04 AM
The petition is so that Christian pastors can invoke the name of Jesus and such into their sermons. The problem with that is a military camp isn't made up of just Chrisitians. There are people of many denominations. And they usually only get one pastor per camp.

freeby4me
10-11-2007, 08:21 AM
The petition is so that Christian pastors can invoke the name of Jesus and such into their sermons. The problem with that is a military camp isn't made up of just Chrisitians. There are people of many denominations. And they usually only get one pastor per camp.

Then NO, I dont feel they should be allowed. What about the other religions? If the Pastor is only of christian faith, wouldnt it be against his religion to help the people pray to a seperate God?

Thats a whole can of religious worms that does not need to be opened. They can pray, thats enough.

tigger4
10-11-2007, 08:36 AM
From what my brother told me (he has been in Iraq and was in Operation Desert Storm) they just hold a general service that includes everyone. Everyone prays the way they want to.

ahippiechic
10-11-2007, 08:42 AM
From what my brother told me (he has been in Iraq and was in Operation Desert Storm) they just hold a general service that includes everyone. Everyone prays the way they want to.

That's the way it should be.

BeanieLuvR
10-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Anyone can pray, any way they want, any where they want, any time they want.....a prayer is between that person and their God.

I very much agree. Praying doesn't have to be out loud for God to hear.

sandy66
10-12-2007, 09:24 AM
That's why they are trying to take "In God We Trust" out of our money. To separapte religion from Government! It's just happening OK, I didn't do it. A Pastor prays out loud to a soldier so he can hear it dh. Pastor's always pray before a group. They can not say in "Jesus Name", which is how your supposed to pray.
End of it. OK

ahippiechic
10-12-2007, 11:43 AM
That's why they are trying to take "In God We Trust" out of our money. To separapte religion from Government! It's just happening OK, I didn't do it. A Pastor prays out loud to a soldier so he can hear it dh. Pastor's always pray before a group. They can not say in "Jesus Name", which is how your supposed to pray.
End of it. OK

In your opinion. Not everyone prays that way and not everyone is Christian. The service is for eveyone, not just a select group.

hesnothere
10-12-2007, 12:25 PM
:yeah

27Summers
10-12-2007, 04:51 PM
In your opinion. Not everyone prays that way and not everyone is Christian. The service is for eveyone, not just a select group.

actually in the bible it states exactly that:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you


and while I am not going to get into a big discussion on this, because frankly I just don't have time, but it's views like this that have brought us to this point. Let's remember, yes, everyone is allowed to worship whomever they want, that's your God given free will, however, your rights to pray and worship are at stake too.
It sickens me enough what our legislators are proposing right now to silence real Christians through the hate crimes bill which would make it so that Pastors can and will be arrested for peaching the Gospel and speaking out against homosexuality and other sins, as well as the ENDA legislation.

I'm off my soapbox now, but I'm sure I will get slammed for this, so be it, I'd rather tell the truth than accept the lies.

ahippiechic
10-12-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't see any lies.....

These are non-demoninational services.

I understand what the Bible says, but not everyone goes by the Bible nor is everyone christian. That is the point of these services...to be for everyone, not just a select group.

If the preacher was leading a Muslim prayer you would be up in arms about it, saying the Christians were being left out. Which would be true. Well, if he is allowed to say a Christian prayer, it would offend the Muslims, Jewish, etc. They can't have a service for each group, thus the general services.

sandy66
10-12-2007, 07:04 PM
actually in the bible it states exactly that:

John 14:13 ? And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14 ? If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 15:16 ? Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 16:23 ? And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 16:24 ? Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:26 ? At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you


and while I am not going to get into a big discussion on this, because frankly I just don't have time, but it's views like this that have brought us to this point. Let's remember, yes, everyone is allowed to worship whomever they want, that's your God given free will, however, your rights to pray and worship are at stake too.
It sickens me enough what our legislators are proposing right now to silence real Christians through the hate crimes bill which would make it so that Pastors can and will be arrested for peaching the Gospel and speaking out against homosexuality and other sins, as well as the ENDA legislation.

I'm off my soapbox now, but I'm sure I will get slammed for this, so be it, I'd rather tell the truth than accept the lies.
Very good, you did a good job here. If your not Christian and find yourself at a Christian meeting then go ahead and walk away. That has nothing to do with this topic.

tigger4
10-12-2007, 07:10 PM
They are non-denominational services. Not a Christian service.

They do these services so that ALL can attend, not just a few. I would think that of all places you would want everyone to feel welcome it would be a Church service in the middle of a war zone.

tigger4
10-12-2007, 07:20 PM
actually in the bible it states exactly that:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

John 16:26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you


and while I am not going to get into a big discussion on this, because frankly I just don't have time, but it's views like this that have brought us to this point. Let's remember, yes, everyone is allowed to worship whomever they want, that's your God given free will, however, your rights to pray and worship are at stake too.
It sickens me enough what our legislators are proposing right now to silence real Christians through the hate crimes bill which would make it so that Pastors can and will be arrested for peaching the Gospel and speaking out against homosexuality and other sins, as well as the ENDA legislation.

I'm off my soapbox now, but I'm sure I will get slammed for this, so be it, I'd rather tell the truth than accept the lies.


You are against Equal rights for all in the workplace? Really?

And I can only assume the legislation you are referring to is the Matthew Shepard Hate Crime bill they passed last month. Nowhere does this law say they can't preach against what they perceive to be a sin. It says it will be against the law to perform an act of violence against someone.

ahippiechic
10-12-2007, 07:22 PM
Very good, you did a good job here. If your not Christian and find yourself at a Christian meeting then go ahead and walk away. That has nothing to do with this topic.

That's the point, these services AREN'T christian services. And yes, it has everything to do with this topic, it's what this topic is about. You want them to change their non-denominational service for everyone into a christian service for a select group.

freeby4me
10-13-2007, 05:12 AM
Heres this "my CHRISTIAN views are the only real views and even if you're going to go get shot for America, which is a religious freedom country, you still have to use my preacher who HAS TO SAY "in Jesus's name" because after all, your religion is NOT REAL."

I almost hate to say this but YUP, How Christian of some people.

tngirl
10-13-2007, 06:57 AM
There are chaplains of just about every faith out there, unfortunately there aren't enough of them of any one particular faith to "spread" them around. I haven't heard anything about this particular "problem", not to say it isn't how it is handled. But think of this, if the military is going to provide chaplains of the Christian faith then they HAVE to provide chaplains of ALL faiths. Since this is impossible for them to do the are having to have ALL of their chaplains "multi-task".

When my daughter was fixing to have surgery she wanted one of her pastors to come visit. Neither of them could come so my sister called one of the local Catholic churches and the priest came and said a prayer and did a blessing. We aren't Catholic, but at that moment it did not matter to my daughter. I don't think if it had been a Muslim or Jewish Rabbi it would not have mattered, at that moment the only thing that was important to her was the reassurance of a higher power.

I don't care what the faith of a chaplain is, their duty in the military is to bring peace to whoever they come in contact with...no matter the faith of that person. I can't imagine a Christian chaplain ranting on the abomination of homosexuality on the war front, it is a place of teaching of God's love. What a chaplain in the military is allowed to do and what a preacher down at the local Baptist church are allowed to do are seperate issues. In the military it has nothing to do with freedom of speach, it has to do with what the duty of a military chaplain is about.

sandy66
10-14-2007, 07:17 AM
That's the point, these services AREN'T christian services. And yes, it has everything to do with this topic, it's what this topic is about. You want them to change their non-denominational service for everyone into a christian service for a select group.

Normally in this Country you are either Catholic or Non Catholic if you are a believer. If this is not the way you believe then go to where you do believe, Buddah or whatever. If you don't like what is established and accepted by everyone then that's up to you.

freeby4me
10-14-2007, 07:24 AM
Normally in this Country you are either Catholic or Non Catholic if you are a believer. If this is not the way you believe then go to where you do believe, Buddah or whatever. If you don't like what is established and accepted by everyone then that's up to you.

What sense does that make? Go to where you believe?? What does that mean exactly? Leave the country where you have freedom of religion? Or does "freedom of religion" mean believing in a catholic religion only?

Heaven forbid someone who's fighting for OUR country feel comfortable with a "religious father/preist" on the battlefield. Must they be made to feel like their religion is wrong out there too?

ahippiechic
10-14-2007, 07:32 AM
Normally in this Country you are either Catholic or Non Catholic if you are a believer. If this is not the way you believe then go to where you do believe, Buddah or whatever. If you don't like what is established and accepted by everyone then that's up to you.

That is the point, these are the only services offered. They are NOT Christian services. And sorry, but Christianiity is not "established and accepted by everyone".

You are trying to take a service that includes everyone and turn it into what YOU think it should be, a service for a select group who hold the same beliefs as you.

The services are non-demoninational, they include anyone who wants to worship. Any person can pray to their God anyway they like there. I can pray however I want, wherever I want, no matter what the service.

tigger4
10-14-2007, 12:59 PM
Normally in this Country you are either Catholic or Non Catholic if you are a believer. If this is not the way you believe then go to where you do believe, Buddah or whatever. If you don't like what is established and accepted by everyone then that's up to you.


Wow! Whatever happened to this country being built on religious freedom?

So, you are saying that the only recognized religions in this country should be Christian based?

sandy66
10-15-2007, 06:58 AM
Wow! Whatever happened to this country being built on religious freedom?

So, you are saying that the only recognized religions in this country should be Christian based?

Pretty scarey stuff.
Yes, this Country was founded and set up as christian, remember? OK then maybe I'm exercing my religious rights to stick up for a Pastor trying to do his job right then. So get off my back Jack. Yes I do get out quite a bit Thanks, and leave me alone I don't associate with non Chiristians, and Thanks again.

freeby4me
10-15-2007, 07:16 AM
Pretty scarey stuff.
Yes, this Country was founded and set up as christian, remember? OK then maybe I'm exercing my religious rights to stick up for a Pastor trying to do his job right then. So get off my back Jack. Yes I do get out quite a bit Thanks, and leave me alone I don't associate with non Chiristians, and Thanks again.

No, actually HISTORY makes me REMEMBER quite differently. Go pick up a history book that is NOT involved with the biased christianity.

Then you should have no problem PAYING for a "preacher/father" for every single religious group that is fighting for the country, which I might add includes RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

If you dont "associate" with NON-CHRISTIANS then what are you doing here? You must have an awfully big list of people on ignore....I gotta say it, how "un-christianlike" of you. I think your nose is up a little too high.

ahippiechic
10-15-2007, 07:29 AM
Pretty scarey stuff.
Yes, this Country was founded and set up as christian, remember? OK then maybe I'm exercing my religious rights to stick up for a Pastor trying to do his job right then. So get off my back Jack. Yes I do get out quite a bit Thanks, and leave me alone I don't associate with non Chiristians, and Thanks again.

Wow, such a great Christian attitude. (RME)

And no, this country was not founded on Christianity, it was founded on religious freedom. People like you give Christianity a bad name. And for the record, I AM a Christian. I just don't believe that God would want me to ram my religion down someone else's throat, nor deprive others from worshipping the way they choose.

Willow
10-15-2007, 07:55 AM
Normally in this Country you are either Catholic or Non Catholic if you are a believer. If this is not the way you believe then go to where you do believe, Buddah or whatever. If you don't like what is established and accepted by everyone then that's up to you.

It's people like you that give Christians a bad name.

tigger4
10-15-2007, 08:16 AM
Pretty scarey stuff.
Yes, this Country was founded and set up as christian, remember? OK then maybe I'm exercing my religious rights to stick up for a Pastor trying to do his job right then. So get off my back Jack. Yes I do get out quite a bit Thanks, and leave me alone I don't associate with non Chiristians, and Thanks again.

And what history books have you been reading? Last one I read said that the Pilgrims came here for religious freedom. Have you ever heard of the First Amendment of the Constitution? It guarantees the rights of religious freedom, not the right to practice Christianity. This country was founded to not have a national religion. That is what they were fleeing from. They didn't want to be told what they had to believe in.

There have been non-Christians here since America was founded. Heck, the Indians who were the first people here sure weren't Christians until the Europeans came over and tried to convert them.

I never said I was a non-Christian. I never said I was a Christian either. So, you really shouldn't make snap judgements about people.

renaissanceman
10-18-2007, 07:12 PM
It's people like you that give Christians a bad name.

DAMN it!!!

I thought I was the only one who gave Christians a bad name!!!

ahippiechic
10-18-2007, 07:27 PM
DAMN it!!!

I thought I was the only one who gave Christians a bad name!!!

No, sadly, there are a lot.

Mom2Shaun
10-18-2007, 10:27 PM
No, sadly, there are a lot.

I agree, and the intolerance, hatred and anger spewed out by some "Christians" is shocking; about as far away as possible from what Jesus taught. I find it offensive when people demand that I believe exactly what they believe, or else I will be "damned to Hell." It is completely UN-Christian.

They can believe what they want, but they can't force me to follow their beliefs.

renaissanceman
10-19-2007, 01:41 PM
I agree, and the intolerance, hatred and anger spewed out by some "Christians" is shocking; about as far away as possible from what Jesus taught. I find it offensive when people demand that I believe exactly what they believe, or else I will be "damned to Hell." It is completely UN-Christian.

They can believe what they want, but they can't force me to follow their beliefs.

Where to begin?

I cant speak for all "Christians" here, but I dont hate, I am not angry and I dont think that I am "intolerant.

But lets address some of what you have said, EVERYTHING that I say on this thread is usually supported by scripture.

You obviously dont know Jesus as he was ANYTHING but tolerant of UNREPENTANT sinners. He made a way for all to be forgiven and had guidelines for ALL to follow.

Heres just a few examples of Jesus shocking statements.

Jesus lost his temper and overturned the money changers tables. In Matthew 21:12 he called the owners of the tables "thieves".

He also called people a "evil and adulterous generation" in Matthew 12:39.

He called people "dogs, swine and evil" in Matthew 7:6&11

He also called people "a generation of vipers" in 12:34

We live in a soceity that has emasculated Christ and wants to believe that he is NOTHING but love. This ignores the truth of Jesus life, the gospel and Jesus warnings that his word is like the sword

Matthew 10:34-39 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain



34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


I personally make NO demans that you believe ANYTHING, I also am not the one condemning you or anyone else to hell, Jesus is.

This is not meant to be hateful. If I had no love for you, I wouldnt open myself to the attacks on this forum.

I do so because of my EARNEST belief that anyone who denies Christ will go to hell, and I DONT want that for anyone.

When you say that my behavior, is unChrisian that doesnt really mean much.

You are NOT a Christian,
so how can you say what is or is not Christian behavior?

Just pointing out the obvious.

I dont get on these forums and tell people that they are Bad Satanists or Muslims, I am not a Satanist or Muslim, NOR am I an exert on comparative theology.

Bahet
10-19-2007, 03:47 PM
Ok, then good Christians are hateful and intolerant of anything non Christian. Makes me even less likey to turn to that religion.

Christians whine and complain so much about everything that is non Christian in the world and then act surprised when Christianity is taken out of things like schools, the military, and the government. They were the ones who demanded that things like Halloween parties be taken out of schools because they were Pagan yet they whine when Christmas parties are taken out. It's called equality. It doesn't matter if 99.999% of a group is Christian. You cannot discriminate against that .001% for religious reasons. It's illegal. If you try to eliminate military clergy who pray to Allah or Buddah or Zeus you will succeed in eliminating them. You will also succeed in eliminating those clergy who pray to Jesus. Congratulations.

ahippiechic
10-19-2007, 04:22 PM
Ok, then good Christians are hateful and intolerant of anything non Christian. Makes me even less likey to turn to that religion.

Christians whine and complain so much about everything that is non Christian in the world and then act surprised when Christianity is taken out of things like schools, the military, and the government. They were the ones who demanded that things like Halloween parties be taken out of schools because they were Pagan yet they whine when Christmas parties are taken out. It's called equality. It doesn't matter if 99.999% of a group is Christian. You cannot discriminate against that .001% for religious reasons. It's illegal. If you try to eliminate military clergy who pray to Allah or Buddah or Zeus you will succeed in eliminating them. You will also succeed in eliminating those clergy who pray to Jesus. Congratulations.

Very well said!

Mom2Shaun
10-20-2007, 01:02 AM
Rennaisanceman, read my post again. I said "some" Christians. And, frankly, I'm not the least bit concerned as to whether or not you think I am Christian, or if you think I am condemned to Hell. I know you will say that you KNOW these things, but your opinion doesn't matter to me. I've read a lot of what you have to say, and we obviously cannot agree on core issues. I don't care to argue with you, or engage with you in any way. Therefore, I'm going to put you on my ignore list, and I suggest you add me to yours.

Bahet
10-20-2007, 01:04 PM
I figure I'm going to Hell anyhow. Christians say if I don't believe like they do I'm going to Hell. JWs, Mormons, Muslims, etc all say if you don't believe like they do you are going to Hell. There are so many religions on this planet and he devoted followers of each and every one just KNOW they are the only ones with the right answer. I figure I'll believe as I am led to believe by my own observations, not through threats of eternal damnation, and if I'm wrong so be it.