The View : What is Whoopi talking about ?

[Jolie Rouge]

I know she doesn’t mean it the way it sounds.

I know she isn’t actually joking with the Speaker of the House about having a threesome.

But I can’t figure out what she could mean.

And, um, neither can Mary Ann Akers of the Washington Post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpu79rqPxjY&eurl=


Exit question: What the hell?


Remember this SNL skit? For some reason, it comes to mind.

http://www.zoopy.com/video_773_SNL_:_Nancy_Pelosi.html

[dv8grl]

on the show, the segment before., Barb was talking about PAUL NEWMAN & Whoppi said that she would DO him, then she said, I'd Do Joanne Woodworth too.

Then it was she'd do Nancy's husband, so then she'd have to do Nancy too

Then it was she'd do Tim Mcgraw and of corse she would do Faith HIll .(the other guest)

[ahippiechic]

Soo...Whoope will DO just about anyone?? LOL!

[regor380]

I saw the show in question and it was meant in fun,she said she didn't want anybody to feel left out.

[Jolie Rouge]

'View' Fight: Goldberg Belittles Hasselbeck's Abortion Position
By Justin McCarthy
October 3, 2007 - 16:04 ET

Is Whoopi Goldberg becoming the Rosie O’Donnell type bully? It appeared that way on the October 3 edition of “The View.” A discussion about Hillary Clinton’s $5,000 a baby entitlement plan quickly descended into a heated exchange between Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Whoopi Goldberg about abortion.

When Hasselbeck noted that $5,000 a baby could lead to fewer abortions in the world, Whoopi told Hasselbeck to “back off” because Hasselbeck has never “been in a position” where she “had to make that decision.”

Whoopi, who claimed to march in a NARAL rally with Katie Couric, also added Elisabeth should have “a little bit of reverence” to the women who had abortions and then spread propaganda about women “found bleeding dead with hangers in their bodies.”

Watch the video over at Ian Schwartz's blog.


In what could billed as their first official fight on The View, Rosie Whoopi and Elizabeth Hasselbeck go at it over abortion. While Elizabeth, the show’s conservative is against the practice, Whoopi educated her on why it is necessary. http://ianschwartz.com/2007/10/03/video-whoopi-teaches-elizabeth-about-the-necessity-of-abortion/

Partial transcript below .....


HASSELBECK: I was very- at heart, I'm very against this policy because I believe it’s more of a gift.

BEHAR: Are you against Social Security, too?

HASSELBECK: No. Against this policy, but then I realized that there is a benefit because I feel like this could maybe cause less abortions in the world. You know, people would keep having kids instead.

GOLDBERG: Elisabeth, Elisabeth, can I ask you one question–can I ask you a question? I just have to ask you this question since you opened this door.

HASSELBECK: Sure

GOLDBERG: Have you ever been in a position to have to make that decision?

HASSELBECK: Never, never.

GOLDBERG: Okay, then back off a little bit. Back off a little bit. Very few people want to have abortions.

HASSELBECK: I'm sure they don't.

GOLDBERG: See, I was listening.

HASSELBECK: I was just affirming what you said.

GOLDBERG: Most people do not want to have abortions. Most women do not have them with some sort of party going on. It is the hardest decision that a woman ever- wait- ever has to make. So, when you talk about it, a little bit of reverence to the women out there who have had to make this horrible decision. And one of the reasons that, that we have had to make this decision is because so many women were found bleeding, dead, with hangers in their bodies because they were doing it themselves. The idea of this was to make it safe and clean. That was the reason the law came into effect. That was why it was done.

[dv8grl]

'View' Fight: Goldberg Belittles Hasselbeck's Abortion Position
By Justin McCarthy
October 3, 2007 - 16:04 ET

Is Whoopi Goldberg becoming the Rosie O’Donnell type bully? It appeared that way on the October 3 edition of “The View.” A discussion about Hillary Clinton’s $5,000 a baby entitlement plan quickly descended into a heated exchange between Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Whoopi Goldberg about abortion.

When Hasselbeck noted that $5,000 a baby could lead to fewer abortions in the world, Whoopi told Hasselbeck to “back off” because Hasselbeck has never “been in a position” where she “had to make that decision.”

Whoopi, who claimed to march in a NARAL rally with Katie Couric, also added Elisabeth should have “a little bit of reverence” to the women who had abortions and then spread propaganda about women “found bleeding dead with hangers in their bodies.”

Watch the video over at Ian Schwartz's blog.

http://ianschwartz.com/2007/10/03/video-whoopi-teaches-elizabeth-about-the-necessity-of-abortion/

Partial transcript below .....


I saw that show too, whats your point?!?!?!
That people have a difference of opinions?! WOW! How RETRO! I know it SCARES alot of you SOOOO MUCH!!!!
Ohh----
We better shut up the black lady because she upset the cute little conservative white girl.....

[YNKYH8R]

I saw that show too, whats your point?!?!?!
That people have a difference of opinions?! WOW! How RETRO! I know it SCARES alot of you SOOOO MUCH!!!!
Ohh----
We better shut up the black lady because she upset the cute little conservative white girl.....
LOL!! Awesome.

[Jolie Rouge]

I saw that show too, whats your point?!?!?!
That people have a difference of opinions?! WOW! How RETRO! I know it SCARES alot of you SOOOO MUCH!!!! Ohh---- We better shut up the black lady because she upset the cute little conservative white girl.....
LOL!! Awesome.

Why am I not surprised ...

I guess I just identify with Liz when I am around here ... :rolleyes:

[Jolie Rouge]

BTT :
Is Whoopi Goldberg becoming the Rosie O’Donnell type bully? It appeared that way on the October 3 edition of “The View.” A discussion about Hillary Clinton’s $5,000 a baby entitlement plan quickly descended into a heated exchange between Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Whoopi Goldberg about abortion.

Senator Hillary Wants to Give You $5,000!
Thu Oct 4, 3:00 AM ET

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., wants to reward you for having a baby.

The plan goes like this. Every baby born receives $5,000 placed in an account. As the money accrues interest, the child can later use the proceeds for a college education or to help finance a home.

The cost?

Sen. Clinton doesn't know.

Will U.S.-born children of illegal aliens be eligible?

No word on that yet.

Who pays?

Don't know.

Assuming the money is placed in a government security, one can expect this to earn far more money than one earns through Social Security. Yet some of the very same people who support a $5,000 interest-bearing account for children opposed President George W. Bush's plan for partial privatization of Social Security. Under Bush's plan, a worker can place some of his or her Social Security payroll taxes in stocks or bonds, allowing an interest rate that exceeds the rate one now gets under Social Security. Today the money, for the most part, vanishes upon the death of the worker. But Bush's plan allows the worker to bequeath the money to his or her children, allowing funds to be used for things like financing college or purchasing a home or starting a business.

Sen. Clinton specifically talks about using the "baby bond" account for college. This assumes that people fail to go for lack of funds. Nonsense. Financing for college remains readily available. More than three out of four college students receive financial aid, at an average annual amount of $9,899 for 2003-04. And 62 percent of students received grants averaging $5,565 in 2003-04. Average annual tuition for a public two-year college is $2,191, and $5,491 for four-year colleges and universities in the 2005-06 academic year.

Some would-be college students, though, apparently think college too expensive to afford. Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, for example, speaks recklessly of "two Americas" — one for the connected, and one for everybody else. Rhetoric like that makes many people, especially those in lower socio-economic levels, think the cost of college places it out of reach. In a survey released by the American Council on Education in 1998, most Americans overestimated the cost of tuition. But blacks and Hispanics were more likely to doubt the availability of financial aid than whites. Blacks were 83 percent more likely than whites — and Hispanics 79 percent more likely — to think college was "not affordable."

Besides, government-provided funds for college actually cause an increase in tuition. Economist Thomas Sowell, in "Inside American Education," writes, "The specific terms under which the government provides student financial aid virtually guarantees tuition escalation to unaffordable levels. . . . The federal formula . . . first determines the 'expected family contribution,' based upon family income, assets, number of children, and other measures of ability to pay. Federal aid begins where tuition and other charges exceed this 'expected family contribution.' A private college or university which kept its tuition affordable — that is, no greater than the 'expected family contribution' — could forfeit millions of dollars annually in federal money. For example, if college X can provide a good education at $8,000 a year, while its average student's family can afford $9,000, then it loses opportunities to receive federal money. By raising its tuition to $12,000, it not only gets an additional $1,000 per student from their families but also an additional $3,000 per student from the government. In short, there is no incentive to keep tuition affordable and every incentive to make it unaffordable."

So Clinton's plan to help finance college becomes yet another solution in search of a problem.

Clinton's plan also creates unintended consequences.

If people cannot feed, clothe, house and educate their children, should government provide incentives to have babies? Programs like school lunches, WIC (Women, Infants and Children), public housing, Aid to Families with Dependent Children, food stamps, transportation vouchers, daycare vouchers — all make this statement: Have a child even if you lack the resources to do so. Breed irresponsibly and the government will compel taxpayers to step in.

Have they learned nothing from the Welfare Reform Act of 1996, signed into law by President Bill Clinton? Welfare rolls declined 50 percent without an increase in abortion. Able-bodied and able-minded people — faced with time limits and denied increased monies for each new child — got off the couch and went to work.

In 1972, George McGovern, arguably the most far-left candidate ever nominated, proposed giving $1,000 to every man, woman and child. Adjusted for inflation, that comes to almost $5,000 today.

If at first you don't succeed . . .

http://news.yahoo.com/s/uc/20071004/cm_uc_crlelx/op_243997;_ylt=AhsMGMvyDZkHOWmRzfIcQI38B2YD

[YNKYH8R]

Why am I not surprised ...

I guess I just identify with Liz when I am around here ... :rolleyes:

WHO?

[dv8grl]

So funny. If you EVER watched the show you would know that Elisabeth HATES being called LIZ and makes a big deal about it very often. LMAO!!!!

As far as paying people to have kids, I thought we already did that.. welfare, wic, etc..

[YNKYH8R]

So funny. If you EVER watched the show you would know that Elisabeth HATES being called LIZ and makes a big deal about it very often. LMAO!!!!

As far as paying people to have kids, I thought we already did that.. welfare, wic, etc..
How can someone that good looking be so conservative? I say we trade....we take "Liz" you guys get Janet Reno.

[Quaker_Parrots]

So funny. If you EVER watched the show you would know that Elisabeth HATES being called LIZ and makes a big deal about it very often. LMAO!!!!

As far as paying people to have kids, I thought we already did that.. welfare, wic, etc..

I have to disagree about your comment about WIC. It is not paying people to have kids. WIC was established to ensure healthy mothers, and in turn healthy babies. If it was paying you to have babies, you would sure get more than a couple boxes of cereal, some juice and milk and cheese a month, and when the baby arrives, formula and juice and cereal.

Think about single moms who cant afford to feed their kids right, especially with milk over $4 a gallon. It can be a godsend.

I get so irritated over ignorance of a few. You would do well to read up on what wic is all about:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/aboutwic/
http://www.fns.usda.gov/wic/WIC-Fact-Sheet.pdf
The Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children - better known as the WIC Program - serves to safeguard the health of low-income women, infants, & children up to age 5 who are at nutritional risk by providing nutritious foods to supplement diets, information on healthy eating, and referrals to health care.

1. What is WIC?
WIC provides nutritious foods, nutrition education, and referrals to health and other social services to participants at no charge. WIC serves low-income pregnant, postpartum and breastfeeding women, and infants and children up to age 5 who are at nutrition risk.
WIC is not an entitlement program; that is, Congress does not set aside funds to allow every eligible individual to participate in the program. Instead, WIC is a Federal grant program for which Congress authorizes a specific amount of funding each year for program operations. The Food and Nutrition Service, which administers the program at the Federal level, provides these funds to WIC State agencies (State health departments or comparable agencies) to pay for WIC foods, nutrition education, and administrative costs.
2. Where is WIC available?
The program is available in all 50 States, 34 Indian Tribal Organizations, America Samoa, District of Columbia, Guam, Commonwealth Islands of the Northern Marianas, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands. These 90 WIC State agencies administer the program through 2,200 local agencies and 9,000 clinic sites.
3. Who is eligible?
Pregnant or postpartum women, infants, and children up to age 5 are eligible. They must meet income guidelines, a State residency requirement, and be individually determined to be at “nutrition risk” by a health professional.
To be eligible on the basis of income, applicants’ income must fall at or below 185 percent of the U.S. Poverty Income Guidelines (currently $35,798 for a family of four). A person who participates or has family members who participate in certain other benefit programs, such as the Food Stamp Program, Medicaid, or Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, automatically meets the income eligibility requirement.

[tngirl]

On the subject of giving babies a $5,000 bond...bull hockey. Are they going to make it retroactive? Do ALL of us born here get one? And why the hell should we now be giving more money to these people having their anchor babies here?

[nightrider127]

On the subject of giving babies a $5,000 bond...bull hockey. Are they going to make it retroactive? Do ALL of us born here get one? And why the hell should we now be giving more money to these people having their anchor babies here?

Well, I really think that it should be retroactive since I am a part of that crowd that will have to finance it.

Hummmmm, just thinking of all the stuff my son could get with that $5000 plus 37 years interest.


Tell ya what Hillary, you make that nice $5000 plus interest retroactive till at least 1970 and you wont have to hear me bitch too much. Make it retroactive to 1948 and you wont have to listen to me bitch at all.

[dv8grl]

I have to disagree about your comment about WIC. It is not paying people to have kids. WIC was established to ensure healthy mothers, and in turn healthy babies. If it was paying you to have babies, you would sure get more than a couple boxes of cereal, some juice and milk and cheese a month, and when the baby arrives, formula and juice and cereal.

Think about single moms who cant afford to feed their kids right, especially with milk over $4 a gallon. It can be a godsend.


Then what about those who choose not to have kids, do I get free milk? I should dont ya think, isn't it alittle unfair that others get things because of choices they themselves make, and others get nothing because they choose differently.

I want my free milk, i want my free chese & juice & vitamins & all that the kids then get from WIC for the first few yrs!

[Starlady01]

Whoopi is meaning it as a compliment not that she would really do it. I'm not sure why she is saying it but that is the way I take it more of a joking way.

I take of as a flirting tease joke.

[freeby4me]

Then what about those who choose not to have kids, do I get free milk? I should dont ya think, isn't it alittle unfair that others get things because of choices they themselves make, and others get nothing because they choose differently.

I want my free milk, i want my free chese & juice & vitamins & all that the kids then get from WIC for the first few yrs!

I do really hope you're joking, you know how important healthy food is for pregnant women and children, and how limited the budgets are on this stuff.

[dv8grl]

I do really hope you're joking, you know how important healthy food is for pregnant women and children, and how limited the budgets are on this stuff.
i'm not joking., i'm not a fan of social services.

[Starlady01]

I happen to disagree with Whoopi on the abortion subject.

I also believe that if abortion wasn't around there would be less abortions.

If woman were being forced to have abortion before it was legal I believe it is more so now.

[freeby4me]

i'm not joking., i'm not a fan of social services.

OK I see what you're saying. So you're being sarcastic when you said you want the free milk too and such?
Without getting into the whole "dont have kids if you cant afford them" type deal, what do you think people should do for formula and healthy food for their pregnant ladies and baby/children, because obviously people will still have kids even if they cant afford them, should they starve?

If you did decide next year to have a child, and you lost your job at 6 months along, wouldnt it be nice to know you have availability to a program where you could get healthy food for you and your baby? You dont have to take it of course.

[freeby4me]

I happen to disagree with Whoopi on the abortion subject.

I also believe that if abortion wasn't around there would be less abortions.

No, there would be less abortions for those opposing it to see. It would just turn into back-alley abortions where its easier to ignore and push under the rug and pretend its not happening.

[Starlady01]

No I was referrering to the other comment of I would do that. First post.

[Starlady01]

I don't agree with whoopi on the abortion issue period.

I think a larger commitment pro life without abortion around would be better.

These women were not doing abortion on their own.

[dv8grl]

OK I see what you're saying. So you're being sarcastic when you said you want the free milk too and such?
Without getting into the whole "dont have kids if you cant afford them" type deal, what do you think people should do for formula and healthy food for their pregnant ladies and baby/children, because obviously people will still have kids even if they cant afford them, should they starve?

If you did decide next year to have a child, and you lost your job at 6 months along, wouldnt it be nice to know you have availability to a program where you could get healthy food for you and your baby? You dont have to take it of course.

like most public assistance it doesn't always go to those who NEED it.

but i don't feel that YOU or every other american should have to pay to feed my baby., it was my choice to have a baby, not yours.

i would much rather have my tax money go to programs that pay for vasectomies for any male over the age of 18, if he wants one, he gets one. Its only $180 at planned parenthood and just think of the money it will save in the long-run., hows that for social services!

[Starlady01]

Women who had babies already get free formula it is called wic. Even the middle class get's wic.

[Starlady01]

'View' Fight: Goldberg Belittles Hasselbeck's Abortion Position
By Justin McCarthy
October 3, 2007 - 16:04 ET

Is Whoopi Goldberg becoming the Rosie O’Donnell type bully? It appeared that way on the October 3 edition of “The View.” A discussion about Hillary Clinton’s $5,000 a baby entitlement plan quickly descended into a heated exchange between Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Whoopi Goldberg about abortion.

When Hasselbeck noted that $5,000 a baby could lead to fewer abortions in the world, Whoopi told Hasselbeck to “back off” because Hasselbeck has never “been in a position” where she “had to make that decision.”

Whoopi, who claimed to march in a NARAL rally with Katie Couric, also added Elisabeth should have “a little bit of reverence” to the women who had abortions and then spread propaganda about women “found bleeding dead with hangers in their bodies.”

Watch the video over at Ian Schwartz's blog.

http://ianschwartz.com/2007/10/03/video-whoopi-teaches-elizabeth-about-the-necessity-of-abortion/

Partial transcript below .....


I myself believe whoopi has been misinformed women were being bullied or confused into having abortions in alleys and were not performing them, themselves. They were being abandoned after the abortion went wrong.

I believe this is why more grandparents are raising grand babies nowadays because now it is accepted by society and more and more woman are now suppressing their motherly instincts not a good thing.

How can someone say I support you when they were being forced, confused, and talked into have abortions in the first place and then make it legal for more. I don't understand this one at all. That is not support.

[ahippiechic]

I don't agree that women are 'forced, confused and talked into' having abortions. Who do think is doing forcing them to do this??

[Starlady01]

I don't agree that women are 'forced, confused and talked into' having abortions. Who do think is doing forcing them to do this??

Yes they are,


Why is it that more women are in jail, why are more woman abandoning there children.

I know of women who have abortion and then leave the man or the man leaves her.

Who,, Parents, Husbands, friends ect.

I have even heard that parents are talking there teenagers into abortions and then going to church the next day, or the following Sunday..

Like I said it is accepted. Imagine the impact on the mothers.

I vote for more Health Education. I have discussed this one a friend of mine this is what is being said.


I have also heard from woman in general.

[Starlady01]

Here is another one for you, I know of a girl who has had 5 or 6 abortion and was getting into drugs really bad she has cleaned it up now. But her talked into and told it was acceptable by people and then having the pro lifers degrade her on top of it. Sent her into drugs, This girl is model material and I've known her all my life she is great with kids.

Pro- lifers should be more for life and the mothers. Support the woman more vs putting them down even more. Support the mothers.
I say more supportive Pro-life and more health education.

[ahippiechic]

I know of several people who have had abortions, but no one talked them into it. It was a very hard decision for most of them to make. I went with my friend to get one, I know that it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. And no one talked her into it either, it was just the opposite for her. Everyone tried to talk and force her to have the child. Even the clinic she went to made her watch the very graphic video of an abortion, then wait 24 hrs before they would actuslly do it. They also gave a her a lot of literature about her other choices and the after effects of having an abortion.

[Starlady01]

I know of several people who have had abortions, but no one talked them into it. It was a very hard decision for most of them to make. I went with my friend to get one, I know that it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. And no one talked her into it either, it was just the opposite for her. Everyone tried to talk and force her to have the child. Even the clinic she went to made her watch the very graphic video of an abortion, then wait 24 hrs before they would actuslly do it. They also gave a her a lot of literature about her other choices and the after effects of having an abortion.

If you pay attention to what whoopi is saying you would know that she is actually an intelligent woman I think she was being sarcastic myself. We all know that woman were not performing abortions on themselves. Nor do I believe that whoopi would do this or that person.

I'm sure that Literature ect has changed over the years. As I stated above it is now legal and more thought of as acceptable. Mothers ect have now tuned themselves out.

But I also know it still happens in America and other countries. I have talked to these woman over the years some I knew for along time some not. And not all abortion clinics give you all the details to spare the mother mentally I guess.

But either way this is how abortion got started in the first place as I stated. Like it or not the truth is the truth.

[Starlady01]

I know of several people who have had abortions, but no one talked them into it. It was a very hard decision for most of them to make. I went with my friend to get one, I know that it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. And no one talked her into it either, it was just the opposite for her. Everyone tried to talk and force her to have the child. Even the clinic she went to made her watch the very graphic video of an abortion, then wait 24 hrs before they would actuslly do it. They also gave a her a lot of literature about her other choices and the after effects of having an abortion.

Besides with all the support of pro choice ect. It's more of a mental block. Suppression of motherly instincts.

[Starlady01]

I know of several people who have had abortions, but no one talked them into it. It was a very hard decision for most of them to make. I went with my friend to get one, I know that it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do. And no one talked her into it either, it was just the opposite for her. Everyone tried to talk and force her to have the child. Even the clinic she went to made her watch the very graphic video of an abortion, then wait 24 hrs before they would actuslly do it. They also gave a her a lot of literature about her other choices and the after effects of having an abortion.

I know you made moderator and if you wish to ban me then do so. I want back down, I know this to be the truth..
I have talked to, to many woman and seen to much . In most cases woman are not given the truth. Your case is not the norm. I know this to be a fact.

Like b back about the chickens I also like b back and think she is a great person but alot of the information was misleading in that report. And all they were asking was for people to ask that they go to larger cages or free caged chickens. I don't live in the dark.

[ahippiechic]

I know you made moderator and if you wish to ban me then do so. I want back down, I know this to be the truth..
I have talked to, to many woman and seen to much . In most cases woman are not given the truth. Your case is not the norm. I know this to be a fact.

Like b back about the chickens I also like b back and think she is a great person but alot of the information was misleading in that report. And all they were asking was for people to ask that they go to larger cages or free caged chickens. I don't live in the dark.

Why would I ban you for disagreeing with me? If everyone thought the same, what would have to talk about?? It would be boring. You posted your opinion and I posted mine. But opinion and fact are hardly ever the same, no matter whose opinion it is. (And if I banned people just because we had a differing opinion on something, then this would be a lonely board indeed!)

About the Wendy's chickens, I didn't see that as misleading, some people don't like that the fact that the chickens they use are caged, so they expressed their opinions on it. No big deal.

[Starlady01]

Why would I ban you for disagreeing with me? If everyone thought the same, what would have to talk about?? It would be boring. You posted your opinion and I posted mine. But opinion and fact are hardly ever the same, no matter whose opinion it is. (And if I banned people just because we had a differing opinion on something, then this would be a lonely board indeed!)

About the Wendy's chickens, I didn't see that as misleading, some people don't like that the fact that the chickens they use are caged, so they expressed their opinions on it. No big deal.

ok

I just know that alot of woman who are given support when pregnant do choice life. The case that happened with you is different and not the norm.

I know of woman who have been given support when they got pregnant and choice life. Most do not get this support.

And no most woman who get abortions are not poor. They are middle class or upper class with and education. I think it is more acceptable. But it sill comes with a mental block and stigma.

[Mom2Shaun]

I know that this is a new argument used by pro-life groups, "We must protect women from being bullied into having abortions. We must protect them from making bad decisions that may have serious consequences to their mental well-being in the future." I think that is extremely patronizing! There may be a very small percentage of women in America who are pushed into having abortions by family or boyfriend, but MOST women are able to make their own decisions! You cannot make policy based upon extreme examples. Women are not children; they should be allowed to make their own decisions!

I also have to say that I'm confused about what some of you are saying. Are you really saying that women should be forced to go through with unplanned pregnancies, but that we shouldn't help support these babies through social programs like WIC? That they should be forced to have these babies, because it was due to choices they made? (Hey, birth control does fail sometimes!) I've heard people say the pro-life groups "love the fetus, hate the child," and I've always thought that was over-stating it and ridiculous. But if we force women to have babies they can't feed, and then we don't help to feed these children, isn't that immoral? We can't let these children starve. Aside from the moral issue, what would this mean for the future of our country?

[ahippiechic]

I know that this is a new argument used by pro-life groups, "We must protect women from being bullied into having abortions. We must protect them from making bad decisions that may have serious consequences to their mental well-being in the future." I think that is extremely patronizing! There may be a very small percentage of women in America who are pushed into having abortions by family or boyfriend, but MOST women are able to make their own decisions! You cannot make policy based upon extreme examples. Women are not children; they should be allowed to make their own decisions!

I also have to say that I'm confused about what some of you are saying. Are you really saying that women should be forced to go through with unplanned pregnancies, but that we shouldn't help support these babies through social programs like WIC? That they should be forced to have these babies, because it was due to choices they made? (Hey, birth control does fail sometimes!) I've heard people say the pro-life groups "love the fetus, hate the child," and I've always thought that was over-stating it and ridiculous. But if we force women to have babies they can't feed, and then we don't help to feed these children, isn't that immoral? We can't let these children starve. Aside from the moral issue, what would this mean for the future of our country?

I agree, I don't understand this mentality either.

I just don't think that women [i]in general[/] are coerced into having abortions. It is generally discouraged.

[Starlady01]

I have seen and heard of this on many occasions myself.


And as it is accepted it is now starting to hit the poor more. So it's not just the middle class and upper class anymore.

My friend who was a model type she didn't choice not to have a kid because of weight I can tell you that. Over weightiness doesnt run in her family. I have seen and heard it alot with people thu out the years of abortion. Most don't hear of it or don't speak of it. But it does happen alot. As I said I myself have know woman who got support and choice life that might of other wise of chosen abortion.

If you was to talk to my friend who had 5 or 6 you wouldn't hear a peep from her I only know because I've known her all my life. I know of alot of them I have heard other stories also from other friends, friends.

[Jolie Rouge]

I don't agree that women are 'forced, confused and talked into' having abortions. Who do think is doing forcing them to do this??

My personal experience is to the contrary.....

Here are some other postings on the topic. I do feel that abortions should be made "rare and unusual" and more restictions applied ( in some states clinics providing abortions are not required to undergo Heath Inspections )

http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/548136-new-hampshire-repeals-parental-notice-abortion.html?highlight=planned+parenthood


http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/543427-undercover-planned-parenthood.html?highlight=planned+parenthood


-----




I know you made moderator and if you wish to ban me then do so. I want back down, I know this to be the truth..



Why would I ban you for disagreeing with me? If everyone thought the same, what would have to talk about?? It would be boring. You posted your opinion and I posted mine. But opinion and fact are hardly ever the same, no matter whose opinion it is. (And if I banned people just because we had a differing opinion on something, then this would be a lonely board indeed!)


Hippiechic is pretty cool - if she banned anyone who disagreed with her, I'd have been toast five minutes after she "made mod" LOL :cheers:

[ahippiechic]

I do agree that ALL clinics providing abortions should be required to undergo heath inspections. All clinics PERIOD.

The only experience I've had with planned parenthood is when I was pregnant with my son at 16. I wasn't encouraged by them to have an abortion, rather to have the child and give him to a relative. (And I WAS talked to by family and they TRIED to force me to have the baby and give it to them.)

(and thanx Jolie)

[Char]

Ummmm, I can't stand it... adding my .37 cents here:

1. I do not believe any females are talked into abortion in the public sector, maybe by their parents or whatever, but, not by the social services. In fact, I have taken some girls there who were pregnant, and did not want a baby, for counseling etc... and they suggested adoption (not abortion) right off, that there were bunches of great people out there who are unable to have kids, but want them desperately.

Everyone has their own life stories and life experiences, and by those we determine what we think are the facts, and as you can see, everyone has their own opinion.

I don't touch the abortion issue, I think it's a very personal choice... only the pregnant female can ultimately make that decision.

I would like to add... A friend of mine takes in emergency cases of children, in fact, she has six right now. For every woman who ends up 'clean and sober' and wishes she hadn't had an abortion, there are many more women who never straighten up... I have heard dozens of true horror stories about what unwanted children go through.

In a perfect world, abortion would never be needed, but, we do not live in a perfect world.


2. Ya know, it's not very classy of Whoopi to go on about who she would and wouldn't 'do'. I guess maybe immature comes to mind. Maybe she should think of who would 'do' her, that would make for better conversation. I like Whoopi and all, but, I had never heard her go on about stuff like that.


3. I personally know of three females who, after having one baby, unmarried and no job, who went on to have another baby, and two had two more babies. I guess you get a bigger HUD apartment if you have two+ babies, or, a boy and a girl, because they can't share a room after a certain age. They did this for the 'perks'. One does not even have her kids, her grandma has her kids... she gets (and keeps) the HUD apartment, the monthly check, and the food stamps... and she parties hard 24/7

The 'system' really needs to get with it. I can understand one, a 'mistake', but, once you have had one, there is no excuse for another, you know how to prevent babies. These are the majority of cases... these people make welfare, food stamps and HUD their career. And, like wildfire, they pass it down to their children. I could take you, right now, to the homes of at least 5 people, with kids, who will sell you their food stamps (well, their 'food card' now) for 1/2 the cost. They go with you to the store, you buy $200 in food, and pay $100. Then, the 'mommy' lives on WIC and church pantries. It just makes ya sick. And, in most cases I know of, mommy spends $30 a week on smokes.


4. My hubster and I decided not to have children, by choice. And we have been penalized since. Higher taxes, no 'benefits', no perks of any kind. No health insurance help (it costs us $100 every two weeks from the paycheck). We work hard, we pay our bills, and we get squat for it.


5. Not sure who suggested it, but, offering FREE vasectomies, or even tube tying is a GREAT idea ! They pay for your healthcare if you get pregnant and have no money... why not offer 'preventive' care ! No, offering free birth control pills etc... does not get it. I's hard for like crack junkies, drunks and the like to be responsible enough to take pills everyday, or use condoms etc... Ever watch cops ? Ther are females out there with like 6 or 8 kids, while mommy is trashed and fighting with the lady down the street who may have slept with her man... yuck



Ok, I'm done...lol, just some input from a middle-class, hard working american.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let me add... I am NOT referring to those who have fallen on hard times not of their own doing. Those who would never dream of having another baby without the means to support it... those who are not enjoying being on assistance. Those who really consider it a blessing, a gift, and not an 'entitlement'. I know there are some good people out there, who actually put forth effort to make a better situation happen.

[Starlady01]

Ummmm, I can't stand it... adding my .37 cents here:

1. I do not believe any females are talked into abortion in the public sector, maybe by their parents or whatever, but, not by the social services. In fact, I have taken some girls there who were pregnant, and did not want a baby, for counseling etc... and they suggested adoption (not abortion) right off, that there were bunches of great people out there who are unable to have kids, but want them desperately.

Everyone has their own life stories and life experiences, and by those we determine what we think are the facts, and as you can see, everyone has their own opinion.

I don't touch the abortion issue, I think it's a very personal choice... only the pregnant female can ultimately make that decision.

I would like to add... A friend of mine takes in emergency cases of children, in fact, she has six right now. For every woman who ends up 'clean and sober' and wishes she hadn't had an abortion, there are many more women who never straighten up... I have heard dozens of true horror stories about what unwanted children go through.

In a perfect world, abortion would never be needed, but, we do not live in a perfect world.


2. Ya know, it's not very classy of Whoopi to go on about who she would and wouldn't 'do'. I guess maybe immature comes to mind. Maybe she should think of who would 'do' her, that would make for better conversation. I like Whoopi and all, but, I had never heard her go on about stuff like that.


3. I personally know of three females who, after having one baby, unmarried and no job, who went on to have another baby, and two had two more babies. I guess you get a bigger HUD apartment if you have two+ babies, or, a boy and a girl, because they can't share a room after a certain age. They did this for the 'perks'. One does not even have her kids, her grandma has her kids... she gets (and keeps) the HUD apartment, the monthly check, and the food stamps... and she parties hard 24/7

The 'system' really needs to get with it. I can understand one, a 'mistake', but, once you have had one, there is no excuse for another, you know how to prevent babies. These are the majority of cases... these people make welfare, food stamps and HUD their career. And, like wildfire, they pass it down to their children. I could take you, right now, to the homes of at least 5 people, with kids, who will sell you their food stamps (well, their 'food card' now) for 1/2 the cost. They go with you to the store, you buy $200 in food, and pay $100. Then, the 'mommy' lives on WIC and church pantries. It just makes ya sick. And, in most cases I know of, mommy spends $30 a week on smokes.


4. My hubster and I decided not to have children, by choice. And we have been penalized since. Higher taxes, no 'benefits', no perks of any kind. No health insurance help (it costs us $100 every two weeks from the paycheck). We work hard, we pay our bills, and we get squat for it.


5. Not sure who suggested it, but, offering FREE vasectomies, or even tube tying is a GREAT idea ! They pay for your healthcare if you get pregnant and have no money... why not offer 'preventive' care ! No, offering free birth control pills etc... does not get it. I's hard for like crack junkies, drunks and the like to be responsible enough to take pills everyday, or use condoms etc... Ever watch cops ? Ther are females out there with like 6 or 8 kids, while mommy is trashed and fighting with the lady down the street who may have slept with her man... yuck



Ok, I'm done...lol, just some input from a middle-class, hard working american.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let me add... I am NOT referring to those who have fallen on hard times not of their own doing. Those who would never dream of having another baby without the means to support it... those who are not enjoying being on assistance. Those who really consider it a blessing, a gift, and not an 'entitlement'. I know there are some good people out there, who actually put forth effort to make a better situation happen.


I didn't say the social services I said: Boy Friends, Parents, Friends, Husbands and or peer pressure. ect
How ever now that you bring up social services I feel like that is where it is leading. Not necessarily social services per say but society or welfare shall we say.


Woman have been having babies for centuries that is just the way it is some love babies.
I know of a girl from a dirt poor family who's parents made her give her child up for adoptions when she was very young. That girl screamed and cried and carries on to this day. She is now married and has 6 or 7 kids of her own.

I say it is also a woman choice to have kids if she wants. I say support that also. That is the point you can't support one without supporting the other. I personally don't support abortions.

[Quaker_Parrots]

It sounds like sour grapes to me.
Then what about those who choose not to have kids, do I get free milk? I should dont ya think, isn't it alittle unfair that others get things because of choices they themselves make, and others get nothing because they choose differently.

I want my free milk, i want my free chese & juice & vitamins & all that the kids then get from WIC for the first few yrs!

[Mom2Shaun]

Also, let's make clear that the food that comes from WIC is for the benefit of the child, even the food that pregnant women get. Yes, there are some scum who might give their children to the grandparents and continue to get WIC. But that's certainly against the rules and I'm sure they can be prosecuted. Again, we cannot make policy based on what some losers will do; we must make it for the good of the many.

[Starlady01]

Also, let's make clear that the food that comes from WIC is for the benefit of the child, even the food that pregnant women get. Yes, there are some scum who might give their children to the grandparents and continue to get WIC. But that's certainly against the rules and I'm sure they can be prosecuted. Again, we cannot make policy based on what some losers will do; we must make it for the good of the many.

It may happen I'm unsure to my knowledge grandparents know about wic nowadays and go and get it them themselves it provides formula and milk for the mother while pregnant and 6 months after her child is born, then just formula and baby cereal for the next 6 months and then after a year they get milk cereal, peanut butter, beans, juice perhaps a little more up till the child is 5 years old. I use to work with a woman who was into wic years ago in another state not the type of wic the provides food a different type of wic. Wics stands for Women in Community service.
__________________________________________________ __________

One more thought on the abortion subject these woman were in alleys for alot of the same reason that woman go to abortin clinics today..

Only now it is said for a career in some cases. As far a careers when they were being performed in the alleys woman didn't even think of careers that wasn't an issue back then. And yes the government will provide child care for or use to for the poor. Only draw back is that most day cares are 5 to 7 or 9 and not many jobs with those hours.

One of the biggest issues when abortion happened was to get the woman out of the alley that is what Elisabeth was speaking of and nowadays it happens on a larger scale vs back in the days. Alot of the stuff I mentioned happens now adays like it then back then only on a larger scale Elizabeth was right.

[dv8grl]

It sounds like sour grapes to me.
Only when it comes to my tax money going to people who abuse & dont deserve social services.

[freeby4me]

Only when it comes to my tax money going to people who abuse & dont deserve social services.

They should implement a special team just to find those who abuse the programs and make them pay it all back and never be eligible again.

[Starlady01]

I agree, I don't understand this mentality either.

I just don't think that women [i]in general[/] are coerced into having abortions. It is generally discouraged.

I quoted here because it is what I'm telling ya it is the truth.

Woman have only been able to vote for how long. Not that long and now you say we get to vote but have chosen to abort our children. I don't think so.. I know of a girl who had two baby outfits in her closet for ever had a few abortions as her mother cried. She did had two girls, but society told her it was her choice so now she believes in abortions.

Do mothers a favor and stop telling them how they should feel about it. I know for a fact she didn't want an abortions, she told her mom but to deal with the situation I guess she says yes or was convicted of such. The stop go around carrying signs saying its a woman choice.. BULL HOCKEY

But every where you look you see it's a woman choice. Lets face it no it's not. It's a man's play world.

How is it that woman have been having babies for centeries then all of a sudden abotion is legal and they don't want kids. I DON"T THINK SO.. And all these people saying pro choice. Woman once again lost that right.

Lets face it woman want to get married and have kids since when has this changed. When abotions was leglized, I don't thinks so. to quote Gomer Pyle. SURPRIZE SURPRIZE SURPRIZE

[freeby4me]

Do mothers a favor and stop telling them how they should feel about it.

Exactly. Dont sit there and tell me "Oh no, you really dont want an abortion" because guess what, its my choice. I BELIEVE ITS MY CHOICE. Someone is allowed to choose whether or not they want one, thats a choice. For someone else to say "well I think its wrong" is taking the individuals choice away.

[Starlady01]

Exactly. Dont sit there and tell me "Oh no, you really dont want an abortion" because guess what, its my choice. I BELIEVE ITS MY CHOICE. Someone is allowed to choose whether or not they want one, thats a choice. For someone else to say "well I think its wrong" is taking the individuals choice away.

You know what. Men tell the woman they don't want kids yet ect or who ever. Then take the woman down to the abotions clinic. And Everyone tell her it is her choice. Because that is what every one says it's your choice and we support you right to have an abortion. How confusing his that message to a woman. Its your right to have an abortions. WHAT


And they say it's your choice in one sentence and in the very next say I support you right to have one. Think about this one. How about her right not to have an abortions. The only voice for woman not to have one are woman carrying signs and yelling and degrading woman. Like a woman going to jump on that bandwagon. She already scared to death and doesn't want one and now she has to go thu a gautlet to top it off.

How about tell woman it's there choice not to have abortion all I ever here it's a woman choice to have one.

[Starlady01]

Let me put it like this::


I support your right to have an abortions?? What was that choice again?


Think about it for a few minutes.

[cabby92]

You're right. I want to go back to the days of nearly every woman having 10 or 12 kids and dying by 40. Yep, the good old days. That's what women really want, not family planning.

[Starlady01]

My grandmother had 12 or 13 kids didn't die at 40 she lived alot longer then that. thanks you


Ever hear of Birth control.

Woman nowadays have it embedded in their heads it was their choice because we have heard it for so long. It was our choice.

I bet you 80% of abortions were done when the woman didn't want one.


All they ever heard was it was their choice to have an abortion.


I'm not buying into that propaganda.

I bet you the next generations will think differently.

[ahippiechic]

It is her choice, period.

I know many women who don't want children and it has nothing to do with a man (or anyone else) telling her that. Some of them are very sucessful single women.

[Starlady01]

That is not what is said it is said like:

It's your choice to have an abortions. Period
Sadly this is the largest statement quoted.


It's also a man choice to use birth control and a woman choice to use birth control. And if they don't there are consequences.

Those consequences shouldn't be your choice is now an abortions.

Your choice is to have the baby and raise it also. And who ever said a woman can only make one mistake. Excuse me
People make mistakes all the time in life we are not a perfect people. That is why Jesus died for our sins. Woman have a right to make more then one mistake in life. I say this because someone stated that they could understand a woman having one child by mistake but I say she also has a right to make more.

Women should have the right to have their children and they should know this and be supported in this.

[freeby4me]

Women should have the right to have their children and they should know this and be supported in this.

How is allowing abortions taking away a womans right to have a child??

I guess I just dont understand where it is you're coming from and what you're talking about. It just doesnt make sense to me.

You also said earlier you knew a girl who had 2 abortions even though she didnt want them.....HUH? How do you know that?? Even if she had the abortions to spite her mother (which I find highly doubtful) what difference does that make? By the sounds of it, she wasnt mature enough to handle the babies to begin with.

[ahippiechic]

I didn't understand half of what you posted but about the part I did get....
Women have a CHOICE.
A choice to have the baby & keep it (as they are generally encouraged to do)
A choice to have the baby and give it up.
A choice to have an abortion.

[tigger4]

I have never seen a woman forced to have an abortion. I have seen women try to go into clinics to be threatened, coerced, and made to feel guilty for being there by prolifers.

My insurance company only pays for one gynecologist in my area. It is in a clinic. Everytime I go for my annual exam the prolifers are there giving me crap about how dare I have an abortion. I am there for my yearly exam not an abortion, but they don't listen.

I have known several women who have had abortions. No one dragged them to the clinic. They made this decision on their own. And before any procedure took place they had to go through counseling. It isn't like you just wake up one day and go have an abortion.

And you said women didn't use hangers on themselves. I beg to differ that happened a lot. They not only used hangers, they used broken bottles. Trying to rid themselves of a pregnancy that would bring shame to them for not being married, etc. Prolifers don't understand that part. Most prolifers I have ran across are very religious. These very religious people are the some of the same people who shunned women who had babies out of wedlock. Then, they turn around and treat them badly for having abortions. So, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

And not all women who have babies are irresponsible about birth control. No birth control is 100%.

And don't even get me started on people complaining about social services. Yes, there are some who take advantage of it. But, for the most part it is people who really need the assistance. There are so many hoops you have to jump through to get assistance anymore. They don't just hand it to you.

[dv8grl]

They should implement a special team just to find those who abuse the programs and make them pay it all back and never be eligible again.

Absolutely. i dont think there is anyone here that doesn't think the social services / public assistance programs are completely wack and have been in a major need of overhaul for yrs & yrs.

[tigger4]

It has been overhauled.

Have you ever known anyone on assistance? I mean really know them not just heard about them.

You can only be on for 5 years in your lifetime. You must take part in a Work First type of program. You are required to work for 40 hours a week in a training program or a job to get any type of assistance. You can't just get welfare and sit around anymore. It doesn't work that way. You have to go to school or work. And if you go to school you have to work part time.

[Mom2Shaun]

Tigger4, I absolutely agree! Six years ago, my husband came home from working overseas because we had just discovered our DS4 had autism. I had to be a SAHM because of all the training and appointments my son needed. My husband couldn't find work for several months, and we were finally forced to go on food stamps for 3 months. It was very difficult to get them, and we had to go thru a lot. I didn't mind that, because I certainly understood why the gvt. wants to be sure the money isn't wasted. But I did wonder about people who don't have the strength necessary to go thru this. People who are sick, physically or mentally, or who are not very intelligent, are the ones who probably need this help most often. And I don't know how they can navigate their way thru the maze, unless someone helps them. So I know that public assistance is no longer just handed out!

[Char]

I bet you 80% of abortions were done when the woman didn't want one.



No way... I don't buy that at all. All the women I knew who had abortions searched them out !

Honestly, who do you think is searching out pregnant women and causing them to have abortions they don't want ?

In reality, no one 'wants' an abortion, no women looks forward to it, like I said before, in a perfect world, they would never be needed... but, what about ladies who know they are unfit and not ready for a child... crack junkies who find out they are two months pregnant, alcoholics who drink and can't/won't quit, even if pregnant... women who have been raped and end up pregnant, women with mental issues who couldn't even care for a cat... the scared teenager who has nothing, no life, no job, no husband etc... the list goes on. Who are you, me, or anyone else to tell them what to do ? The courts decided it was a womans right to choose. If religion is your issue, each women will have to deal with their maker when the time comes... again, not our business.

I know that hard core pro-lifers get this kind of stuff in their heads, the percentages you speak of... I understand that... and I know you believe it to be true... but, with my experience and knowledge, I don't believe it is.

[Char]

BTW... I think the WIC program is great, I really do.

[Jolie Rouge]

The courts decided it was a womans right to choose. If religion is your issue, each women will have to deal with their maker when the time comes... again, not our business.

It becomes "our business" when tax payer dollars are paying for it. It becomes "our business" when Hillary is promising taypayer monies to any woman who has an abortion. If they want to keep it a private issue then pay your own cash and keep ya' hands off my wallet.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Originally Posted by Starlady01
I bet you 80% of abortions were done when the woman didn't want one.

NOT TRUE I also think you are misslead

I have read this thread twice now,and if you haven't been faced with the choice then you DO NOT know shit about this subject.

ok, I'll blab,my opinion here and a truth.

I have had an abortion.It was the HARDEST choice I have ever had to make.

Long story short

I was in a VERY abusive marraige, he beat the shit out of me and raped me (among other things) one night when he was drunk..thus I became pregnant..I WAS ON BIRTH CONTROL at the time.The first day I missed my period,I went and had a pregnancy test done,it was possitive. I mulled over the idea of having the baby, did I want to bring a child into the situation I was in (I had been saving $ and making plans to RUN at the time) For me the answer was no, I couldn't for the baby,nor for myself, because at the time,I would have a hard enough time on my own and two children at home already.I was six weeks when I had it. The clinic did not try to steer me in any direction as to my choice,they gave me reading material and explained the procedure. NO ONE forced me to make the choice, it was MY choice and mine alone. Do I regret..NO. If it had been any other situation, i would have kept the baby.

Do I think anyone who has even not been in the situation to make the choice knows anything about this..sure don't.

( FYI-He did go to jail,I am no longer married and I am happy with my life now)

Flame away I guess

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

It becomes "our business" when tax payer dollars are paying for it. It becomes "our business" when Hillary is promising taypayer monies to any woman who has an abortion. If they want to keep it a private issue then pay your own cash and keep ya' hands off my wallet.


AGREED !!:yeah

I think WIC is a great program.

[freeby4me]

I could never flame you DBD, and shame on anyone who does. (((HUGS)))

Yes, Jolie, I think alot of people would agree with you about keeping government money out of abortions. I think a woman should have the right to choose. People who believe otherwise have to pay taxes as well and should not have to worry about their money going towards something like that.

[tigger4]

When you say you don't want taxpayer money going to abortion do you mean State assisted insurance paying for abortions?

Medicaid pays for birth control. To my knowledge it does not cover abortions. Here is a link that shows what Medicaid covers as far as birth control. http://www.kff.org/medicaid/benefits/service_foot.jsp?nt=on&so=0&tg=0&yr=3&cat=7&sv=44

People need to make up their minds, you don't want taxpayer money paying for abortions and you don't want taxpayer money supporting a child through welfare. What are people who are down on their luck supposed to do?

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

I don't want to pay to support someone elses kids. I mean government assisted people who CAN work and simply knows the ins and outs of scamming to get on welfare.

I paid for my abortion. Medicaid will pay for birth control but not abortions. My insurance wouldn't cover it.

[Jolie Rouge]

What are people who are down on their luck supposed to do? Be responsible for themselves.

With "rights" come responsibilities.

[Char]

Well, it would be easy if it were really the 'people's choice' about government money paying for abortions, or not. But, in reality, the government will ultimately make that decision.

There are a lot of things government money pays for that I do not agree with, but, hey, not a damn thing I can do about it.

Should government pay for abortions ? I don't have any idea. They pay for birth contral, they pay for alcoholics, they pay for birth and medical care for women who have babies they can't afford... where does it end, and who draws the line ? I just don't have the answers, I guess if I did, I'd be rich. :D

As for 'Hillary for president'... I don't think the world is ready for a female president, and for reasons many may not agree with or understand.
My reason is this... we live in a world of terrorism, and it's gonna get worse. In many countries, females are considered 'less' than a man... in a lot of ways. And those countries are not going to take us seriously with a female president, it's that simple... and that scares me.

[Char]

Be responsible for themselves.

With "rights" come responsibilities.


I agree, 100% ! The problem is that a lot of people are not responsible. In a perfect world, yea, this would be the normal... but, it's like 'just say no to drugs', it doesn't work.

[Jolie Rouge]

As for 'Hillary for president'... I don't think the world is ready for a female president, and for reasons many may not agree with or understand.
My reason is this... we live in a world of terrorism, and it's gonna get worse. In many countries, females are considered 'less' than a man... in a lot of ways. And those countries are not going to take us seriously with a female president, it's that simple... and that scares me.

Margaret Thatcher proved the fallacy of that arguement.

I dont' think it is a matter of not being ready for *A* woman to be in the Ovall Office - just NOT this one.

There's a site dedicated to the women who have ruled since the beginning of times - or as long as the sources date back.

There have always been female rulers. Some Egyptian Queens are believed to have governed from around 3000 BCE, and the first to be named by the sources without any doubt is Ku-baba, who ruled the Mesopotamian City-State of Ur round 2500 BCE.

First female ministers

However, it was not until after World War I that the first few women became members of governments. Nina Bang, Danish Minister of Education 1924-26 was the world's first full female cabinet minister. Nevertheless, development was slow and it was not until the end of the 20th century that female ministers stopped being unusual.

First female Prime Minister and President

In 1960 Sirivamo Bandaranaike of Sri Lanka became the world's first female elected Premier Minister and in 1974 Isabel Perón of Argentina became the first woman President - one woman had been Acting Head of Government and two women Acting Heads of State before that.

Today, the only two countries, which never had a female member of government in at least a sub-ministerial position, are Monaco and Saudi Arabia. The Vatican has got one Assistant Vice-Minister. In 1999 Sweden became the first country to have more female ministers than male. 11 women and 9 men, in 2007 the Finish government had 60% women.

Current female heads of state and government : There are 192 members of the United Nations and 2 independent states outside. 17 have got female leaders at the moment.

Of the monarchies, there are reigning Queens in 3 countries: Denmark, The Netherlands and the United Kingdom - and the latter is represented by female Governor Generals in Antigua and Barbuda, Canada and Saint Lucia, who function as their countries' de-facto Heads of State.

The 7 female Presidents are in Chile, Finland, India, Ireland, Liberia, The Philippines and Switzerland.

At the moment there are 4 woman Prime Ministers; in Germany, New Zealand, Mozambique and The Netherlands Antilles.

http://www.guide2womenleaders.com/

The site contains lists of female Heads of State listed by country, a chronological list of Women in Power from B.C. 3000, female Prime Ministers, Ministers of Finance and Ministers of Defence and Ministers by country, female Chairpersons of Parliament, female Governors, Premiers and local Leaders by country, female Party Leaders for each country, a chronological list of female Presidential Candidates, Ambassadors to the United Nations and first female ambassadors for each country, lists of women's ordination to priesthood and female bishops and finally a list of female Danish leaders.
[/quote]

I have been doing research with my DD for a school report ..... ;)

[Jolie Rouge]

Wednesday, June 13, 2007
Female World Leaders
A friend just emailed me a conversation that took place in her office. This conversation was between 4 women who are in their early to late 20s, 2 women from the northern United States, 2 from the southern United States, and from widely varying socioeconomic backgrounds...

Woman 1: I wouldn't vote for a woman.

Woman 2: Me either. They are too emotional and fly off the handle.

Woman 1: No, that's not why for me. It's because other countries wouldn't respect us and we would lose power if we put a woman in office.

Woman 3: I would vote for ANY woman but Hillary Clinton. She drives me up a wall.

Woman 1: I think we just need a more peaceful time to have our first woman president. There's too much going on right now.

Woman 3: Yeah, if things went badly they would blame it all on the fact that the president was a woman.

Woman 1: Yeah, just need a more peaceful time to do that.

Woman 4 (my friend) thinks "Margaret Thatcher, Current president of Chile..."


I shouldn't be surprised, really. But I was.

How sad is it that, in this nation that imagines itself such an enlightened world power, our young women cannot imagine a female president? Any educated person will tell you that MANY other countries have had freely elected female leaders. The United States is behind the times on this issue and while I do not think anyone should be elected BECAUSE of their gender, I want to live in a country where being female is not considered a massive obstacle to holding the highest office in government. I want to live in a country where OTHER WOMEN feel a female leader is a realistic and desireable option.

Just so we're clear on this:


Female Presidents and Prime Ministers currently (or until very recently) in office in other nations:


Ireland, President Mary McAleese - The eighth, and current, President of Ireland. She has a longstanding interest in issues concerned with justice, equality, social inclusion, anti-sectarianism and reconciliation but has never engaged in party politics. During the 1997 -elections 5 candidates were female and there was only one token male candidate (finishing a distant last).

New Zealand, Prime Minister Helen Clark - She became Prime Minister of New Zealand in December 1999 and entered her third successive term in that office in 2005.

Latvia, President Vaira Vike-Freiberga (left office May 31, 2007) - She retired from the Universite de Montreal in 1998, after being a professor of psychology there since 1965. She was elected to the post of president as a non-political compromise candidate and re-elected unopposed 5 years later. She is most known for her role in securing NATO and EU memberships for Latvia.

Finland, President Tarja Halonen - She began her first term of office in 2000 and was re-elected on January 29, 2006. Her current term expires in 2012. She is the eleventh President of Finland and the first woman to hold the office.

The Philippines, President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo - She is the country's second female president after Corazon Aquino. She is the daughter of former President Diosdado Macapagal. Prior to becoming president, Arroyo was the country's first female vice president.

Bangladesh, Prime Minister Khaleda Zia (left office 29 October 2006) - was the Prime Minister of Bangladesh from 1991 to 1996, the first woman in the country's history to hold that position, and again from 2001 to 2006. She is the widow of assassinated president Ziaur Rahman. She has ruled the country for about 10 years (longest period). She has been elected to five separate parliamentary constituencies in the general elections of 1991, 1996, and 2001, a feat unachieved by any other politician in Bangladeshi history.

Mozambique, Prime Minister Luisa Diogo - Prime minister of Mozambique since February 2004, previously the Head of Department in the Ministry of Finance 1986-89 and National Budget Director 1982-89 in Ministry of Planning and Finance.

Germany, Chancellor Angela Merkel - Merkel, who studied physics and holds a doctorate in physical chemistry, is simultaneously the first female Chancellor of Germany, the first citizen of the former German Democratic Republic to assume the chancellery of reunited Germany, and the first woman to lead Germany since it became a modern nation-state in 1871. She is also, as of 2007, the youngest person to be German chancellor since the Second World War. Merkel, considered by Forbes Magazine to be the most powerful woman in the world at present, is only the third woman to serve on the G8 and in 2007 became the first woman to chair a G8 summit after Margaret Thatcher.

Liberia, President Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf - Current president of Liberia and Africa's first elected female head of state and Liberia's first elected female president. She is the second elected black woman head of state in the world and also second female leader of Liberia after Ruth Perry (who assumed leadership after an overthrow), and the third such head of government after Eugenia Charles of Dominica and Sylvie Kinigi of Burundi.

Chile, President Michelle Bachelet - The first woman to hold this position in the country's history. She won the 2006 presidential election in a runoff, beating center-right billionaire businessman and former senator Sebastián Piñera, with 53.5% of the vote.

Jamaica, Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller - She replaced outgoing Prime Minister P. J. Patterson, becoming the first female head of government of the nation and the third in the Anglophone Caribbean following Eugenia Charles of Dominica and Janet Jagan of Guyana. She also holds the position of president of the ruling People's National Party.

Switzerland, President Micheline Calmy-Rey - A member of the Swiss Federal Council since 2003. She is head of the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs (the Swiss foreign minister) and President of the Confederation for 2007.

Also...


A small sampling of past female leaders who have held the highest elected office in their country:


India, Prime Minister Indira Gandhi (1966-1977, 1980-1984 - appointed, and later elected in 1971) - As prime minister of India from 1966 to 1977 and 1980 to 1984, Gandhi led the world's largest democracy. Indians called her Mataji, or "respected mother."

"I don't mind if my life goes in the service of the nation. If I die today every drop of my blood will invigorate the nation."
- said the night before she was assassinated, October 30, 1984.

Israel, Prime Minister Golda Meïr (1969-1974 - appointed, and later elected in 1973, resigned in 1974) - Golda Meir, born in Kiev, Russia, became the fourth prime minister of Israel. She and her husband emigrated from the United States to Palestine and she quickly became a leader in the Zionist movement. She was elected to the legislature of Israel in 1949 and served as prime minister from 1969 to 1974. She was the first (and, to date, only) female Prime Minister of Israel, and was the third female Prime Minister in the world.

"It’s no accident many accuse me of conducting public affairs with my heart instead of my head. Well, what if I do? … Those who don’t know how to weep with their whole heart don’t know how to laugh either."


United Kingdom, Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher (1979-1990) - Thatcher began her long career in Great Britain's Parliament in 1959. She was the first female prime minister of the United Kingdom and the longest serving. She advocated conservative economic policies during her tenure from 1979 to 1990. She is the first and to date only woman to serve as head of government of a nuclear-armed state.

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."


Iceland, Vigdis Finnbogadottir (1980-1996) - The first popularly elected female president in history, Finnbogadottir defeated three men in her first run for Iceland's presidency in 1980. She worked to modernize Iceland and improve the status of women until the end of her fourth term in 1996.

"This people never gave up, never forgot their language, their stories, their memories."


The Phillipines, President Corazon Aquino (1986-1992) - She was Asia's first female President and world-renowned advocate of democracy, peace, women empowerment, and religious piety.

"I would rather die a meaningful death than live a meaningless life."

CLEARLY being a woman is no obstacle to being able to execute the office of President or Prime Minister of a nation. I am not saying I advocate the politics of these individuals (and my apologies for the brief bios being less than uniform in coverage), but my point is simply this: Other nations are electing women. Other nations trust their future in the hands of a woman. Women in the U.S. have not yet learned to put as much trust in our fellow women as we should.

A woman can lead a nation
http://dameonline.blogspot.com/2007/06/female-world-leaders.html

[tigger4]

I don't want to pay to support someone elses kids. I mean government assisted people who CAN work and simply knows the ins and outs of scamming to get on welfare.

I paid for my abortion. Medicaid will pay for birth control but not abortions. My insurance wouldn't cover it.

You have to work to get welfare. You either work, attend training, or work and go to school. There is no more free ride.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

You have to work to get welfare. You either work, attend training, or work and go to school. There is no more free ride.


Not in all states (yet) what state are you in?

[freeby4me]

In Michigan you have to work or do those self help classes 40 hours a week in order to recieve money/cash.

[tigger4]

Not in all states (yet) what state are you in?

That is a federal law. It is part of the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. The only people who do not have to take part in this program are the disabled, mothers of newborns (when the baby is 4 months old they are required to start) and the elderly (over 65).

[ahippiechic]

That is a federal law. It is part of the Welfare Reform Act of 1996. The only people who do not have to take part in this program are the disabled, mothers of newborns (when the baby is 4 months old they are required to start) and the elderly (over 65).

There must be a some ways around this, because my friend gets FS, med. assist and cash asst. And her baby is 8 mo old. She had to do some job training classes, but kept missing them and have to start over. When she gets the letter that says her cash asst. will be stopped, she goes to a few classes, so she gets it a few more months. She also gets a lot of food at the food banks here and a local church has paid her rent the last 2 months.

[tigger4]

It sounds like your friend is required to do the job training, etc. that goes along with getting assistance. If you don't do it they will cut you off. They try to work with you, but will for only so long. And once you get cut off for non-cooperation there is a statute of limitations as to when you can get back on.

I have a friend in OH who is disabled, but it took her caseworker almost a year to be satisfied with the diagnosis of disabled so she had to do the job training.

[janelle]

Whoopie said it herself---"No woman wants to get an abortion." SO DON'T GET ONE. Let's help women when they are in a situation that is hard. Support them, tell them about other options. If they are with abusive men help them to get away from them. Do any and everything to support them. Then when the child is born keep supporting them until they can support themselves.

There will always be bums that use the system but why make those who really need help suffer because of the bums?

I have heard a girl say---"I got an abortion cause it is legal." I don't think she even much thought about why she was there. And married men do not want a family with another woman so they encourage abortion. Johnny Cochran's mistress tells about him talking to her on the phone while she was being wheeled into the abortion room and telling her how proud he was of her for doing it. I wouldn't mind seeing these men get vasectomies (maybe castrated?)

[freeby4me]

Whoopie said it herself---"No woman wants to get an abortion." SO DON'T GET ONE. Let's help women when they are in a situation that is hard. Support them, tell them about other options. If they are with abusive men help them to get away from them. Do any and everything to support them. Then when the child is born keep supporting them until they can support themselves.

There will always be bums that use the system but why make those who really need help suffer because of the bums?

I have heard a girl say---"I got an abortion cause it is legal." I don't think she even much thought about why she was there. And married men do not want a family with another woman so they encourage abortion. Johnny Cochran's mistress tells about him talking to her on the phone while she was being wheeled into the abortion room and telling her how proud he was of her for doing it. I wouldn't mind seeing these men get vasectomies (maybe castrated?)

If you dont want one, then dont get one. I want the option if I need it. Nobody needs to take away my decision making ability because they dont know why I would or wouldnt want one.

[Starlady01]

On this issue of abortion once more. What I say is the truth and they still wanted to make abortion legal but no one would vote for it.

Then when the Roe vs Wade case came up that is how abortion got voted in. Which was actually just one issue and not the big picture. How ever she has since tried in vain to reverse the action and has not been able to. Yes I know all this because my grandmother not my real grandmother was a huge political person and we spoke many times on political issue. This is how I know more the most people because I happen to of know alot of people who were deep in politics from way back.

[ahippiechic]

On this issue of abortion once more. What I say is the truth and they still wanted to make abortion legal but no one would vote for it.

Then when the Roe vs Wade case came up that is how abortion got voted in. Which was actually just one issue and not the big picture. How ever she has since tried in vain to reverse the action and has not been able to. Yes I know all this because my grandmother not my real grandmother was a huge political person and we spoke many times on political issue. This is how I know more the most people because I happen to of know alot of people who were deep in politics from way back.

I'm sorry, but no, you don't know more than MOST people. The things you have posted are your personal opinions or your experiences. That does not make something a fact nor does it make it apply to others in general.

[Mom2Shaun]

I'm sorry, but no, you don't know more than MOST people. The things you have posted are your personal opinions or your experiences. That does not make something a fact nor does it make it apply to others in general.

Ah, the voice of reason . . . :shakehands:

[Jolie Rouge]

This thread was not intended to be ALL about abortion issues...

That being said, I found some interesting articles .... ;)


Abortion Numbers Fall Worldwide
By Ed Edelson - HealthDay Reporter
35 minutes ago

FRIDAY, Oct. 12 (HealthDay News) -- The number of induced abortions fell worldwide from almost 46 million in 1995 to less than 42 million 2003, a new survey finds.

About one in every five pregnancies ends in abortion, the global survey found, and the number of unsafe procedures has not declined.

The report, by researchers at the Guttmacher Institute and the World Health Organization, also found that abortion rates were unaffected by whether or not the procedure was legal or not in a particular country. "Abortion levels where it is illegal are just as high as where it is legal," said study co-author Gilda Sedgh, a senior researcher at the Guttmacher Institute, a nonprofit group focused on reproductive issues, based in New York City.

In fact, Sedgh said, "what is counterintuitive is that [abortion] rates are lowest where it is legal."

The survey results are published in the Oct. 13 issue of the journal The Lancet.

This is the second such survey ever done. The first, also a cooperative effort of the Guttmacher Institute and the World Health Organization, was done in 1994-1995. Data was gathered from government figures in areas where abortion is legal and by a variety of means, including private interviews with women, in areas where it is not legal, Sedgh said.

Overall, the survey estimated 41.6 million abortions a year are carried out globally, with only about 6.6 million of them performed in developed nations such as the United States. Some 92 percent of abortions were done by safe methods in developed countries, but just 45 percent performed in developing nations were deemed safe.

Globally, there were 31 abortions for every 100 live births in 2003, but those statistics varied widely from region to region. For example, there were 105 abortions for every 100 live births in eastern Europe, but in east Asia that rate declined to 51 abortions for every 100 live births. The abortion rate in eastern Europe is dropping rapidly, however, as better contraception becomes available, the researchers said.

The high rate of the procedure in eastern Europe means that nearly a third of all pregnancies in that continent end in abortion. By contrast, only 12 percent of pregnancies in Africa end in abortion. Worldwide, the rate of abortion is one in every five pregnancies.

China accounts for about a fifth of all abortions worldwide, the survey found. The rate in China dropped 20 percent between 1995 and 2003, as a growing middle class learned more effective use of contraception, Sedgh said.

The survey has both good and bad news, said Beth Fredrick, executive vice president of the International Women's Health Group. "What is good is that the overall number of abortions are going down, primarily because of improved contraceptive use," said Fredrick, who was also the author of an accompanying journal commentary on the findings. "But behind the statistics, we see that the majority of abortions are going to be unsafe, particularly for the impoverished. This is an atrocity in terms of how we recognize human rights."

Legal changes are occurring but differ among countries, Fredrick said. "Portugal, Columbia and Mexico City have liberalized," she said. "Nicaragua has completely outlawed abortion, and there are early indications that this is having a bad impact on the women of Nicaragua, their partners and families."

The abortion survey is included in a special "Women Deliver" issue of The Lancet. It includes articles on the need to improve maternal mortality rates in regions such as southern Africa; the drive for more resources to fight severe childbirth complications; and the uneven progress being made to improve maternal health, country by country.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20071012/hl_hsn/abortionnumbersfallworldwide;_ylt=AkU91J9BmeFskPEh zEoA8Q2s0NUE



Studies show drop in abortions, maternal deaths
Thu Oct 11, 8:11 PM ET

LONDON (Reuters) - Two studies published on Friday show abortions are declining worldwide due to wider use of birth control practices and that the rate of pregnancy-related deaths is not shrinking quickly enough to meet global targets.

The number of abortions annually fell to under 42 million from 46 million between 1995 and 2003, with rates decreasing most significantly in Eastern Europe, said the report from the Guttmacher Institute and the World Health Organization. The number of abortions fell most in developed countries where it is legal compared to poorer countries where it is largely banned and considered unsafe, the researchers said.

Western Europe had the lowest abortion rate in the world in 2003 at 12 per 1,000 women aged 15 to 44, the study said citing broad use of birth control methods as a reason. The rate was 17 for Northern Europe and 21 for North America.

Asia, which accounts for the biggest part of the world's population, had the highest number of abortions -- about 26 million in 2003. China accounted for about 9 million.

The report said an estimated 20 million unsafe abortions occurred in 2003, 97 percent of them in developing regions and places where the procedure is banned. "Each year, about 70,000 women die due to unsafe abortion and an additional five million suffer permanent or temporary disability," Paul Van Look, director of the WHO's department of reproductive health and research, said in a statement.

The Lancet medical journal published the two studies as part of a series aiming to focus attention on the health of women, mothers and babies around the world. The second study showed pregnancy-related deaths were falling but not at a fast enough pace to meet the United Nation's Millennium Development Goals aimed at reducing the number of women who die in pregnancy and childbirth by three quarters by 2015.

Using figures from the WHO, the World Bank and other non-governmental organizations, the report showed an annual decline of less than 1 percent between 1990 and 2005, far below the 5.5 percent rate needed to meet the Millennium goals. "To achieve (the) targets by 2015 will need a huge and urgent emphasis on improved pregnancy and delivery care throughout the developing world," the report said.

The researchers estimated there were more than 535,000 pregnancy-related deaths in 2005, nearly all in sub-Saharan Africa and Asia. The figures in individual countries varied from a low of one maternal death per 100,000 live births in Ireland to a high of 2,100 deaths per 100,000 births in Sierra Leone, the study said. "The huge difference in risk dwarfs differences for other commonly used health indicators, such as the infant mortality rate, and makes it likely that effective interventions to reduce maternal mortality exist but are not being widely implemented," the researchers said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071012/hl_nm/women_dc;_ylt=ApR71tPlL5VDUoH98sc5Scu9j7AB

[Jolie Rouge]

Legal status doesn't deter abortion
By MARIA CHENG, AP Medical Writer
Thu Oct 11, 8:14 PM ET

LONDON - Women are just as likely to get an abortion in countries where it is outlawed as they are in countries where it is legal, according to research published Friday. In a study examining abortion trends from 1995 to 2003, experts also found that abortion rates are virtually equal in rich and poor countries, and that half of all abortions worldwide are unsafe.

The study was done by Gilda Sedgh of the Guttmacher Institute in the United States and colleagues from the World Health Organization. It was published in an edition of The Lancet medical journal devoted to maternal health. "The legal status of abortion has never dissuaded women and couples, who, for whatever reason, seek to end pregnancy," Beth Fredrick of the International Women's Health Coalition in the U.S. said in an accompanying commentary.

Abortion accounts for 13 percent of maternal mortality worldwide. About 70,000 women die every year from unsafe abortions. An additional 5 million women suffer permanent or temporary injury. "The continuing high incidence of unsafe abortion in developing countries represents a public health crisis and a human rights atrocity," Fredrick wrote.

The number of worldwide abortions has dipped from about 46 million in 1995 to just under 42 million in 2003. But there was no change in the rate of unsafe abortions; nearly half the procedures are still performed illegally in potentially dangerous conditions. "The only way to decrease unsafe abortion is to increase contraception," said Sharon Camp, president and chief executive officer of the Guttmacher Institute.

Camp said that more countries are allowing women to have abortions legally, but many women only receive medical attention after a procedure has gone wrong. "I don't think women should have to hurt themselves before they get medical treatment," she said.

The vast majority of abortions — 35 million — were in the developing world. And nearly 97 percent of all unsafe abortions were in poor countries. Worldwide, one in five pregnancies ends in abortion.

The study defined unsafe abortions as those performed either by people lacking the necessary skills or in an environment that does not conform to minimum medical standards.

In eastern Europe, there are more abortions than live births: 105 abortions for every 100 live births, the research found. In Western Europe, there are 23 abortions for every 100 live births.

In North America, there are 33 abortions for every 100 live births, while in Africa, where abortion is illegal in most countries, there are 17 abortions for every 100 live births.

Improving women's health, experts said, means improving access to safe abortions. Some experts criticized the restrictions that often come with donor money. Funds from the U.S. government, for example, cannot be used in any health services associated with abortion.

Because providing safe abortions depends on a working health care system, experts said tackling the problem is difficult.

In related papers published in The Lancet this week, experts said there has been little improvement in helping women survive pregnancy and childbirth in the last two decades, particularly in the world's poorest countries.

Unlike improving child health, which can be done relatively easily by things like immunizing children against various diseases, "you can't give women a pill for obstetric complications," said Ann Starrs, executive vice president for Family Care International in the U.S., who was not linked to the study.

Competing with other health issues for limited health dollars is also a problem.

"Donors love to distribute bed nets for malaria because it's simple to do and it's easy to show the progress you've made," said Dr. Lale Say, a WHO maternal health expert. "But unfortunately for women's health, there is no single strategy that will work everywhere."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_he_me/global_abortion;_ylt=AvV73x4drEYo6bC6GpvJs8G9j7AB

[YNKYH8R]

I wonder what the ratio is women who have an abortion to women who don't give a shit about their own children.

[Jolie Rouge]

I wonder what the ratio is women who have an abortion to women who don't give a shit about their own children.


That is such a bizarre statement I can't even formulate a reply. Make as much sense as :
http://www.bigbigforums.com/vent-whine/538331-we-want-baby-polar-bear-dead-say-animal-rights-lobby.html?highlight=shelter

[freeby4me]

I wonder what the ratio is women who have an abortion to women who don't give a shit about their own children.

Could you explain a little farther? I think I know what you're saying, but I'd like to find out.

[Jolie Rouge]

Back towards the Original Topic : The View. In this case Joy Behar ...


Joy-less Behar’s health care analysis
By Michelle Malkin • October 13, 2007 07:29 PM
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/13/joy-less-behars-health-care-analysis/

There was an infantile, pea-flinging discussion of the Graeme Frost case on the Real Time with Bill Maher show last night. Blogger Ms. Underestimated sent word that the classy Joy Behar–a comedian or something–offered her penetrating analysis of why I’m focusing more on opposing middle-class entitlement expansion than stopping the Iraq war.

http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/behars.jpg

If you can’t stand the blather, just forward to 2:53 into the segment of the video here. Behar’s side-splitting punchline about me:


“Because she’s a selfish bitch, probably.”

***

Allahpundit: http://hotair.com/archives/2007/10/13/joy-behar-michelles-a-selfish-bitch-probably/


As I said once before, Rosie drew most of the flak but there’s never been any doubt who the weakest link is in the View’s intellectual chain. We’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of this braying idiot over the past year, and while it’d be lovely to think that some of it trickled down to her and provoked a little payback, I suspect this is just Behar being Behar — ingratiating herself with the rest of the team by taking a crude, witless swipe at conservatives. And to think, I bought the boss a View mug last Christmas. You may hate us, Joy, but we like you.

The one nice thing about leftist-approved attacks like this is that they reset the bar for what constitutes civilized political discourse. File “selfish bitch” away somewhere safe for future use.

More here. http://msunderestimated.com/2007/10/13/maher-on-schip-michelle-malkin-others-video/

And let’s not overlook Joy-less Behar’s claims that “the Republican [presidential] candidates are a bunch of pussies,” and that Michelle Malkin is “a selfish bitch, probably. What a tool.

October 14, 2007
Political discourse of the left is an abomination

http://www.wernerpatels.com/canuck_columnist/2007/10/political-disco.html

ABC's The View has never been a program to watch for me. Not because I am a man, but because the collective IQ of the panel is so far below that of my two Yorkies that it would be literally insane to waste even a second on that silly bitchfest show.

There, I said it: bitchfest. And I feel I have every right to call those View panelists bitches because one of their own, Joy Behar, has clearly set the bar for how far, or how low, political discourse can go when she said this about Michelle Malkin:


“Because she’s a selfish bitch, probably.”

Behar, a wannabe comedienne and TV host, should be bitchslapped upside the head if she thinks that this is a proper manner to engage in political debate -- or discuss other people's political views.


Video: The View's Behar “jokes” about GOP candidates attending Klan meetings posted at 6:00 pm on September 19, 2007 by Allahpundit

Now that Rosie’s left and taken her headlines with her, it’ll be interesting to see if the press starts paying more attention to Joy. She flew under the radar last year but, Trutherism excepted, she’s every bit the reactionary bomb-throwing liberal that big Ro is. The beauty of this clip is that it’s prefaced by the discussion of l’affaire Manilow and some hearty back-slapping about how tolerant they are of each other’s political leanings. Except for the occasional Klan analogy, of course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GES2Mnm0HHw&eurl=

I tossed in Sherri Shepherd’s explanation of her now-immortal media moment. She’s very convincing.

Good news: New “View” co-host not sure if the world is round
posted at 11:22 am on September 19, 2007 by Allahpundit

From yesterday’s show. Today’s show is airing as I write this and she’s insisting, right this very minute, that of course she knows the world is round, that yesterday’s fiasco was a psychological hiccup of some sort. Oookay, Sherri. Watch this and judge for yourself: momentary brain freeze or unguarded opinion that she’s now been “talked out of” after Barbara or whichever producer had a word with her after the show?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj9OB3Lq-ig

Look at it this way. The Rosie vacancy required someone who’s sassy, “funny,” and capable of believing outlandish theories that defy all logic and science. Whoopi only gave them the first two.

[Jolie Rouge]

See also : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLnCDTWB2S0&eurl=

[kelblend]

You know what. Men tell the woman they don't want kids yet ect or who ever. Then take the woman down to the abotions clinic. And Everyone tell her it is her choice. Because that is what every one says it's your choice and we support you right to have an abortion. How confusing his that message to a woman. Its your right to have an abortions. WHAT


I haven't read all of this thread, but you make women sound as if they don't have their own brains. I don't approve of abortion, but that is my Choice based on MY own opinion. I didn't make my choice based on only other's opinions.
By the way, there were in fact cases of women trying to perform abortions on themselves. That is a fact. I think each person makes up their own minds and then lives with the consequences. Of course, there probably are some women or young girls who are so scared that they "think" they "should" do one or the other. For the majority, I don't believe that's the case.


IT seems in my state anyone with more than a few kids, an alcoholic or on drugs gets assistance and have heard of more than a few not attending any job classes or the like. Would love to see that enforced more.

[Jolie Rouge]

By the way, there were in fact cases of women trying to perform abortions on themselves.

And your point is ??

Abortions are legal - so the arguement that women are doing their own makes what point ?? A number of women also abandon newborns to die in trash cans and the like despite there being "safe haven" laws in most states. ( "Safe Haven" allows the mother to leave the infant at a hospital, police, fire station and in some states a church and not be charged with aboandonment/endangerment )

[kelblend]

And your point is ??

Abortions are legal - so the arguement that women are doing their own makes what point ?? A number of women also abandon newborns to die in trash cans and the like despite there being "safe haven" laws in most states. ( "Safe Haven" allows the mother to leave the infant at a hospital, police, fire station and in some states a church and not be charged with aboandonment/endangerment )


My "point" was that it was being said that it has never happened. The person said it was fact. Simply disputing that. Not arguing with anyone as to whether abortion is right or wrong. I don't condone it all if you care. I do know what Safe Haven is as well.

[Jolie Rouge]

My "point" was that it was being said that it has never happened. The person said it was fact. Simply disputing that. Not arguing with anyone as to whether abortion is right or wrong. I don't condone it all if you care. I do know what Safe Haven is as well.


Thank you for the clarification : I was a little confused.

[kelblend]

Thank you for the clarification : I was a little confused.


No problem. I was addressing too many things there at once. Just bothers me to see something repeatedly stated as fact when it isn't. *sigh* I'm done with the thread. lol

[Jolie Rouge]

I am done for the night.... :nitenite:

[Jolie Rouge]

October 14, 2007
Political discourse of the left is an abomination

http://www.wernerpatels.com/canuck_c...cal-disco.html

ABC's The View has never been a program to watch for me. Not because I am a man, but because the collective IQ of the panel is so far below that of my two Yorkies that it would be literally insane to waste even a second on that silly bitchfest show.

There, I said it: bitchfest. And I feel I have every right to call those View panelists bitches because one of their own, Joy Behar, has clearly set the bar for how far, or how low, political discourse can go when she said this about Michelle Malkin:


“Because she’s a selfish bitch, probably.”

Behar, a wannabe comedienne and TV host, should be bitchslapped upside the head if she thinks that this is a proper manner to engage in political debate -- or discuss other people's political views.


My best friend, Joy Behar

http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/2bitch.jpg

The nattering nabobs of ninnyism on “The View” never cease to amaze. You may recall last month when “View” co-host Joy Behar appeared on the Bill Maher show and called me a “selfish bitch” because I questioned Harry Reid’s poster family for the massive S-CHIP entitlement expansion. (Like the t-shirt says: “I’m not a bitch. I’m just giftedly outspoken.”)

This week, the same “bitch”-spewing celebrity is, um, complaining about John McCain because he didn’t say anything when a supporter referred to Hillary Clinton as a “bitch.” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/us/politics/16clinton.html?_r=2&ref=us&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


Thanks to Allah for the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7noNT5L76U

Newsbusters has the transcript: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/justin-mccarthy/2007/11/15/joy-behar-admits-double-standard-clinton-versus-bush



WHOOPI GOLDBERG: So now, let’s talk about John McCain. Shall we? This has been all over the news. A woman at a John McCain rally said to him, “how do we beat the bitch?”

JOY BEHAR: Some woman.

GOLDBERG: A woman. You know, just like any of us. Not you, of course, sir. But you know, the women. As we would say about whoever we were talking about in wherever we were. It wasn’t a broadcast thing. Someone was filming. Okay. He kind of looked a little startled and kind of laughed a little bit, because it took him by surprise. Then a guy said “I didn’t know you were talking about my wife” and made all those dumb jokes. Then he said “that’s an interesting question” and went on to say “I have a lot of respect for Hillary Clinton” and blah blah. Now everyone is up in arms with him because they feel he should have said to this woman “do not refer to Mrs. Clinton as this way.” So I say, the question for me is, having watched him have to deal with yet another woman, his mother, who made a comment about Mitt Romney, my take –

JOY BEHAR: What did she say about Mitt Romney?

GOLDBERG: I don’t remember, but it wasn’t good and he had to take care of it. And what I thought I saw on his face was, another one. I have to do this again. Now, we say the word all of the time. But people were apparently very up in arms that he didn’t pull out his yardstick and say “don’t say those words about this woman who’s running.” Now, if a man said it, if it wasn’t a woman, I’d say — can you say that? You’ll beep me, right?

[…]

BEHAR: But he’s a man. It’s different when a man uses it.

GOLDBERG: But he didn’t use it. He did not say it. A woman said it, asked him, “how do we beat the bitch?” And everyone’s angry at him for not saying “don’t you say that about Hillary Clinton.”

SHERRI SHEPHERD: And I think that we are getting so desensitized because look how everybody talks about President Bush. Whether you agree with him or not, the position of the president is a sacred position, I think, and everybody calls this man an idiot. You talk about him. So why you getting mad when somebody goes how do we beat the bitch?

GOLDBERG: You’re missing the point. Nobody is getting mad.

SHEPHERD: There were some people were in arms. I’m not saying you.

GOLDBERG: And I don’t understand that. They were up in arms for not correcting her.

SHEPHERD: Well, that’s what I’m saying. Everyone’s up in arms.

JOY BEHAR: It would have been nice. He is a gentleman, usually, McCain. It would have been nice for him to say “Well, you know, I think you’re referring to my opponent and I don’t particularly like the way you’re refer to her.” That’s all. It would have been nice and respectful to say that. That’s all. As far as Bush is concerned, I mean, I respect the office of the presidency. I just don’t respect him.

[Applause]

SHEPHERD: What I’m saying is the same could be said, she felt Hillary Clinton was a bitch. And so she said it.

BEHAR: No, that’s a personal assault on the woman.

SHEPHERD: You do personal assaults on President Bush.

BEHAR: Yes, I do.

SHEPHERD: So what’s the difference? What’s the difference?

BEHAR: The difference is that I don’t like him.

[Laughter]

SHEPHERD: What’s the difference? She didn’t like her.

GOLDBERG: And this woman doesn’t like her. But I still don’t understand what people wanted him to do. You’re saying he should have said “don’t say this,” but the truth of the matter is we walk around doing it all the time and the only way we get away with it is there’s no cameras with us. If no one had seen it on camera, would people have been as mad?

BEHAR: Probably not.

GOLDBERG: I don’t think so either.

SHEPHERD: And also, John McCain is a human being. Sometimes you get caught off guard. Sometimes people say things and you don’t come back the way people think you’re supposed.

BEHAR: At the end of the day, it’s going to work in favor of Mrs. Clinton because she gets the sympathy vote. Women don’t like it. That’s the truth. And so more women will vote for her because of that, I think.

SHEPHERD: Because she got called a bitch?

BEHAR: Yes. They don’t like it. It’s very sexist to call a woman a bitch when you’re a man. We could say it to each other.

[…]

GOLDBERG: We don’t want to get him all wrapped up in that. What I was trying to say is people say stuff all the time and I don’t know if everybody has to always accommodate everybody else’s political correctness. Because John McCain is a good guy. He’s a very smart guy. And, you know, we say this word all the time. I don’t know how much mail comes in about us saying it. It would be interesting to find out.

BEHAR: I think it’s when you’re friendly with a person, you can say it. We perceive them as being as being adversaries. And therefore, it did not seem appropriate. I think that’s the bottom line of it.

So, you see, since Joy Behar and I are such good friends, it’s okay for her to call me a “bitch.” But it’s not ok for John McCain to not say anything when someone else calls Hillary a “bitch.” Because he’s a man. And that’s inappropriate.




http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/16/my-best-friend-joy-behar/

[Jolie Rouge]

Oscar snub leaves Whoopi sad, choked up
1 hour, 38 minutes ago

NEW YORK - Whoopi Goldberg seemed sad and choked up on "The View" Monday when her fellow co-hosts discussed how she was not included in a montage featuring Oscar hosts during the Academy Awards telecast.

The 52-year-old Goldberg has received two Oscar nominations, winning for her role as Oda Mae Brown in 1990's "Ghost." She hosted the event in 1994, 1996, 1999 and 2002. She did, however, appear as an Oscar winner in a separate montage Sunday night.

Goldberg appeared stumped that the academy would leave her out of the one clip, as well as repeat host Steve Martin.

"Maybe they accidentally lost a clip of you hosting. ... But I think it's wrong," Elisabeth Hasselbeck said. Joy Behar said "being slighted is never fun." Sherri Shepherd wondered if Goldberg had made someone mad.

"Undoubtedly," Goldberg said, smiling. "Undoubtedly I (bleeped) somebody off yet again. You know what, I don't — I don't know."

"Hey, we think you're a great host," reassured Barbara Walters, the creator of the ABC chatfest.

"I think we should do our own montage of you to make up for it," Hasselbeck said.

"This makes up for it," Goldberg responded, before getting up and kissing each co-host on the cheek. She and Walters embraced.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080226/ap_en_ce/people_whoopi_goldberg;_ylt=AihSUn3_fOFAsHrzFVhPJZ AnHL8C

On the Net: ABC: http://abc.go.com/