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Jolie Rouge
09-07-2007, 02:06 PM
Let the poor save for their future
By Rourke O'Brien
Fri Sep 7, 4:00 AM ET

Washington - In 1990, newspapers around the country profiled the story of Grace Capetillo, a welfare mom from Milwaukee who, after managing to save $3,000 in the bank, was hauled into court by the county Department of Social Services and charged with fraud. Having breached the limit on allowable assets, Ms. Capetillo was found guilty and ordered to pay a fine of $1,000, spend down another $1,000 of the money she had worked hard to save, and promise not to save again if she wanted to stay on assistance.

The country was rightfully outraged; the system was clearly broken. Yet today, 17 years later and a decade since welfare reform, asset limits continue to send mixed messages to the poor.

Last month on Capitol Hill, Rep. John Conyers (D) of Michigan introduced a bill that aims to reverse decades of this self-defeating policy toward the poor. In order to qualify for government assistance, from cash welfare and food stamps to disability income, low-income families must demonstrate they are not only income-poor but asset-poor as well.

These rules were understandably designed to preserve assistance for those truly in need. Yet, while policymakers created an asset test to keep hypothetical, unemployed trust fund brats from collecting government checks, these rules are sending a dangerous message to low-income families: Do not save.

Mr. Conyers's proposal calls for a major reform in eligibility policy across public assistance programs, recommending aggressive liberalization or outright elimination of asset tests, depending on the program. While such a bill may prove too costly, Conyers is to be praised for shedding light on this tragic contradiction in American social policy: Income support programs designed to help families achieve economic self-sufficiency are penalizing those who save.

The climb out of poverty is fraught with unpredictable and expensive complications such as an illness, temporary unemployment, or divorce that can act as a riptide, dragging a working family back to government assistance. One of the proven ways to weather these income shocks is to develop a safety net of savings. But under today's rules, in order to remain eligible for vital government assistance – assistance understood to be crucial on the path to economic independence – families aren't permitted to save much at all.

While most would agree with the need for policies to protect income-support programs from fraud, existing asset limits are either far too restrictive or, in some cases, entirely unnecessary.

Take welfare. The program that gives temporary assistance to needy families requires all recipients to engage in 30 to 40 hours of "work activities" every week, meet stringent income requirements, and be subject to strict time limits. Coupled with the stigma associated with welfare, it's no wonder that asset limits have become entirely unnecessary in preventing fraud (only 0.5 percent of applicants a year were denied assistance due to the asset limit in Virginia). In 1996, welfare was redesigned to be truly an option of last resort – and in that respect it has overwhelmingly succeeded.

Any money that families might have saved in low-wage jobs must be spent before applying for government assistance. One young woman I met while interviewing recipients at a welfare office in Maryland laid bare her understanding of the relationship between saving and public benefits: "I definitely don't think you can have any money in a bank account and still get assistance."

While Maryland permits families to hold up to $2,000 in liquid assets and still qualify for assistance, this woman believes the existence of an asset limit – and the caseworker's duty to investigate financial holdings – sends a clear message that saving will be penalized.

The campaign for reform is gaining momentum. President Bush has recognized the disincentive to save that exists in the food-stamp program and has proposed excluding retirement accounts from the asset test. Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R) of Georgia has gone a step further in proposing to exclude education savings accounts and index the limit to inflation.

States across the country – from Virginia to California – are using what flexibility they have in administering government programs to raise or eliminate the asset test for low-income families. Unfortunately, state policymakers are limited in what they can do, and few legislators at any level are even aware such a problem exists.

This new legislation signals that awareness is growing – the opportunity for reform is now. If we truly want low-income families to achieve self-sufficiency, we need to give them the tools, education, and incentives to save for the future – not penalize those who try.

• Rourke O'Brien is a policy analyst with the Asset Building Program at the New America Foundation, a nonprofit, nonpartisan, public policy institute.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070907/cm_csm/yobrien;_ylt=An1FQoutn62eTfEATdyvE1X8B2YD

tngirl
09-07-2007, 02:36 PM
In my opinion, if we did away with the welfare system all together, more people would be inclined to actually get out and work. Or maybe families would get back to the way they used to be...families used to take care of their own.

gmyers
09-07-2007, 03:43 PM
:2in1: The way families are today I doubt seriously if they would or could help anyone. They just don't seem to be close anymore. Not to mention sometimes people really desperately need help for a while. But maybe they could put a limit on the time they help people. Like a one year limit. People should be able to either find a job or get training to get one in that time. Sometimes I think the welfare system would do more good if they gave people free job training so they can get a good job instead of welfare checks.
That way its like an investment, the people could take care of themselves and their families after the trainings done.

pepperpot
09-07-2007, 03:49 PM
People on government assistance should have limits imposed on their savings.

I do not think it discourages 'savings'. :rolleyes:

There are many opportunities to earn 'cash' for 'services'....housecleaning, odd jobs, etc.....not income that is reported. Why give the opportunity to save 'unreported income' and collect government assistance?

Bahet
09-07-2007, 05:58 PM
My DH went to Iraq in 2003. One of the guys in his unit was mid management at an auto company in his regular job but only an E5 in the reserves. He enlisted after 9/11 into the reserves. He wanted to do his part but he didn't want to permanently give up his regular job income to take an 80% pay cut. When the unit got activated his wife was 4 months into a difficult pregnancy and was ordered to take it easy. She quit her job because they didn't need her income. They had a nice house in a nice neighborhood and 2 cars that were both 3 years old and completely paid for.

He got activated and their income dropped like a rock. She couldn't pay the mortgage on his military pay. She contacted welfare but was told they had too many assets. She sold one of the cars, depleted all but an emergency fund of savings and even pawned some jewelry. The stress of the deployment and the financial situation caused her even more pregnancy problems and their DD was born 6 weeks early.

The welfare system may indeed be set up with low savings limits to prevent trust fund brats from collecting. But it shouldn't force someone who is serving our country in Iraq to nearly lose his house before being able to collect on not only a short term basis but one with a foreseeable end and in extenuating circumstances.

pepperpot
09-07-2007, 06:04 PM
I believe that example would be the exception and not the 'norm'......

As far as military service, there should be some 'safety net' for instances like these, perhaps a loan that wouldn't have to be paid back until after he's served his time? Or perhaps a 'special' government program for families in need for circumstances such as this? We do need to look after those (family members included) that serve us.

pepperpot
09-07-2007, 06:08 PM
.

BTW You so confuse me what site I am on......:lol

freeby4me
09-07-2007, 06:12 PM
BTW You so confuse me what site I am on......:lol

Just remember, she cant change your user title here LMAO

pepperpot
09-07-2007, 06:15 PM
Just remember, she cant change your user title here LMAO

She can't ban me neither! :lol

:slap

tammy77
09-07-2007, 06:25 PM
Let me get this right.They want to make it legal for people on welfare to be able to save money for thier future????Flame away but I think that is bullshit.DH and I both work full time jobs and have yet been able to put anything away for our future.Welfare and foodstamps are a way to help a family get back on thier feet while trying to find work.
I think on Monday I need to go to the welfare office and apply for foodstamps.Then maybe we will be able to start putting some money away for our future.

freeby4me
09-07-2007, 06:43 PM
A question the poor have had for all time, how do you get ahead??

Bahet
09-07-2007, 06:48 PM
She can't ban me neither! :lol

:slap

Not here I can't....

;)

freeby4me
09-08-2007, 05:35 AM
Not here I can't....

;)

Uh oh....LMAO did u change my user title again LOL :star:

heartlvrs
09-08-2007, 06:16 AM
In my opinion, if we did away with the welfare system all together, more people would be inclined to actually get out and work. Or maybe families would get back to the way they used to be...families used to take care of their own.


As a person who deals with "assistance" folks...Ii agree with you!!! It burns me up everytime I see the crap!!! I say TOTALLY do away with it!!!!

boopster
09-08-2007, 07:15 AM
The whole idea of welfare is to assist people in need with everyday expenses to exist. If a person on welfare is able to save, that would denote that they are getting too much. The money they are given is for them to spend on necessities and is not meant to give them a savings account.

27Summers
09-08-2007, 08:10 AM
as someone who had a need for welfare years ago, and now just gets medical assistance, I can see where saving could be considered wrong. But for those of you who have never been on it, you need to realize that some people only get foodstamps, or medical (which is my case right now)
not everyone, in fact, very few here in Milwaukee get a cash subsidy in addition to food and or medical. Tommy Thompson changed the welfare system from it's former self and it forced thousands of people off the rolls. People who weren't ready or equiped to be off assistance. In turn, food pantries were wiped clean, thousands had their power shut off, people were dying trying to heat their homes any way possible. People were evicted, crime went up, bank robberies are at an all time high right now, and in my neighborhood, where crime is pretty low, there have been 2 armed bank robberies within 2 weeks, all within blocks from my apartment.

To say these people should not be able to save is utterly wrong.
You do not understand the situation, and if you have never been in the system, you only know from you are told, by the media.
Do not blame the people who are trying to put their lives together, and need assistance to do so, it is their right.
There is no need to look down on them, yes of course there are lazy people who sit and collect benefits, HOWEVER, they do not get to enjoy it for very long, because of strict rule changes there are so few actually getting all 3 benefits of the system.

A better solution to the problem would be classes to help people manage and save, classes to help people open and keep checking acounts, saving accounts. Classes to help people understand home ownership, child rearing classes, and birth control.
and most importantly, JOB SKILLS.

People, you don't realize the "skills" they try to teach those on the rolls.
In one instance, anyone who was getting cash assistance had to show up at a warehouse, and for 8 hours, sort bottle caps. Once done, the supervisor would dump them all out on your table, and you would start all over again.
Can somebody please tell me what "skill" that fell into??

There is also an "ambassador" program that recently started up here, the participants are welfare recipients, what do they do??
walk around the neighborhood, and mow lawns, or pick up garbage.
The lady who helped run the program was quoted as saying "I'm not going to teach them how to patch a roof or fix computers here"
Um, so then how does the mad cycle of welfare stop??

The skills they are trying to teach will never get any recipient ANYWHERE except back through the revolving door, just like jail.

If it really angers you that your taxes are paying for these people, then get proactive, and stop complaining, because unless you have been there, you really can't understand how bad some of these people really have it.

tngirl
09-08-2007, 08:56 AM
Have you evre heard of a thing called financial aide? It is this great thing that helps poor people go to college.

Starlady01
09-08-2007, 01:07 PM
Financial aid the Pell grant only pays for so much then it is cut off. Then you have to apply for a grant in your field of choice if there is one. Then the choice is a loan and if you don't get a job right away or say you don't get to graduate let me tell you from experience the worse people are the ones that give out financial aide to students when you default they hound you worse then most collectors.