Grrrrrrrr....too young to "decide".... [Archive] - Big Big Forums

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cpbaby

08-09-2007, 08:50 AM

I was talking to my manager this morning about her daughter and her DD's new school. I asked how she was doing, if she had made any friends, yadda yadda yadda. Ms Manager was telling me how she made friends with this boy who was gay. She said he was very nice, well spoken, polite, but admittedly gay. One of my co-workers broke in and asked how old they were. Ms Manager told her they are both 13. Co-worker said "OH, thats a shame. 13 is too young to decide if you are gay or not."............WTF is she talking about?:slap I knew she was narrow minded and judgemental, but at that point my mouth dropped open and I became speechless where I couldnt ask what she meant by that, or I would have.

Yes, he decided he was gay. He took it upon himself to live a life that is hard to begin with but even more so by being labeled as "gay". He said HEY, my life is so great, its not fair to others, I think I need to make it a bit harder and level the playing field so I dont have such an advantage compared to others and the ONLY WAY I can do this is to DECIDE I am gay...........

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 08:59 AM

I knew at 13 that I WASN'T gay, so why is it so hard for some to comprehend that someone of that age know that they ARE gay???

cpbaby

08-09-2007, 09:17 AM

I knew at 13 that I WASN'T gay, so why is it so hard for some to comprehend that someone of that age know that they ARE gay???

Thats what Im thinking....

iluvmybaby

08-09-2007, 09:18 AM

ahippiechic I knew at 13 that I WASN'T gay, so why is it so hard for some to comprehend that someone of that age know that they ARE gay???

I knew my orientation when I was 14, not sure why your coworker thought he was too young to know

cpbaby

08-09-2007, 09:35 AM

She wasnt saying he was too young to know. She was saying he was too young to MAKE THE DECISION TO BE GAY. That a person "decides" whether to be gay or not, that it isnt coded in.

suprtruckr

08-09-2007, 09:44 AM

i've known all my life that i was a lesbian

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 09:50 AM

Do people honestly think anyone, much less a 13 yr old, is going to just up and say, "I think I'll be gay"?? (well, I guess some people DO think that, you're co-worker seems too. )

Why would anyone purposely "decide" that they are something that will lead to all the things that gay people have to deal with? The inequality, repulsion, discrimination, hatred, jokes at their expense, etc.....

DBackFan

08-09-2007, 10:13 AM

i've known all my life that i was a lesbian :rolling My bi neice calls her husband her lesbian lover

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 10:17 AM

i've known all my life that i was a lesbian

I've always known you were too!

Bahet

08-09-2007, 10:21 AM

I was 13 when I decided to be a white female. [/sarcasm]

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 10:30 AM

I was 13 when I decided to be a white female. [/sarcasm]

LMAO!

cpbaby

08-09-2007, 10:38 AM

I was 13 when I decided to be a white female. [/sarcasm]

And I bet your mom was sure surprised! :rofl:

Lasher

08-09-2007, 10:56 AM

I was about six, I decided boys had cooties, and they smelled

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 11:02 AM

I was about six, I decided boys had cooties, and they smelled

I thought that at 6 too, but evidently changed my mind about it somewhere along the line...now i like boys TOO much! :star:

Lasher

08-09-2007, 11:10 AM

I thought that at 6 too, but evidently changed my mind about it somewhere along the line...now i like boys TOO much! :star:

he is not a boy, lol he's part giant

yeah I think they are okay, some aren't that icky, just as long as they stay on their side of the room lol

PrincessArky

08-09-2007, 11:13 AM

I knew at 13 that I WASN'T gay, so why is it so hard for some to comprehend that someone of that age know that they ARE gay???

ditto

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 12:25 PM

he is not a boy, lol he's part giant

yeah I think they are okay, some aren't that icky, just as long as they stay on their side of the room lol

LMAO! True!

nanajoanie

08-09-2007, 01:46 PM

She wasnt saying he was too young to know. She was saying he was too young to MAKE THE DECISION TO BE GAY. That a person "decides" whether to be gay or not, that it isnt coded in.

I personally don't think it's a choice. You are born that way, not decide to be. Geesh that young male has a hard enough time being a male in his earliest teens and being gay added to that. Sounds like he has his head on straight to me.

LuvBigRip

08-09-2007, 02:03 PM

I was about six, I decided boys had cooties, and they smelled

LOL, at that age, I think all girls think that.

Shann

08-09-2007, 03:08 PM

I personally don't think it's a choice. You are born that way, not decide to be. Geesh that young male has a hard enough time being a male in his earliest teens and being gay added to that. Sounds like he has his head on straight to me.

yep I agree. I think that's great he's being true to himself, how many of us even at our ages, can say the same thing?

Bahet

08-09-2007, 04:37 PM

And I bet your mom was sure surprised! :rofl:

Nah, she thought it was great and decided to become a Korean hermaphrodite.

renaissanceman

08-09-2007, 05:20 PM

Tasha405

08-09-2007, 05:28 PM

All I will add to this discussion is that there is NO verified scientific proof that Gay people are born that way.

This is a fallacious belief that has been propogated to force people into believing that being Gay or Straight is 100% the same.

Plus the average person especially if they are NON-Religious will feel that they HAVE to accept homosexuality if Science can prove that they are born that way.

I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior. Studies have proven that the brains of alcoholics are different than the brains of people who ONLY drink socially or dont drink at all. This doesnt mean that the person whos brain is markedly different was born that way. Rather it displays natural cause and effect.

Just my opinion for what its worth. Please if you dont like it IGNORE it.

Well look who showed up. LOL

I think people are born gay. I don't think its some kind of decision they make later in life. I mean, I don't remember sitting around thinking... damn, I've got to make a decision soon. Gay or not? Hmm...

kimp67

08-09-2007, 05:33 PM

I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior.

Just my opinion for what its worth. Please if you dont like it IGNORE it.

Think I'll IGNORe it

ilovecats

08-09-2007, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by renaissanceman View Post
I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior.

ok,I guess you can believe anything you want.I just wonder why all these kids just "decide"to make their life more difficult,especially when they have to deal with narrow-minded ideas like that.

Shann

08-09-2007, 06:57 PM

All I will add to this discussion is that there is NO verified scientific proof that Gay people are born that way.

just as there is NO verified scientific proof that they are not, or is there and I missed it?

cpbaby

08-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Nah, she thought it was great and decided to become a Korean hermaphrodite.

Was she in that movie I saw the other night??? If so, she is remarkably talented.....and limber. :naughty

<SOB!>I am so proud..........we knew he was going to show up and HE CHOSE MY THREAD TO SHOW UP IN!!!! <cpbaby wipes away a tear of joy>

Shann

08-09-2007, 06:58 PM

Gay or not? Hmm...

choose gay... choose gay... then we can :knuddel: all night long ;)

JKATHERINE

08-09-2007, 07:06 PM

i've known all my life that i was a lesbian

My DH is famous for saying that as well....lol ;)

andreame70

08-09-2007, 07:30 PM

My DH's cousin, whom I have known all of his life is homosexual and I can tell you from knowing him since he was born that he was born that way.

At a very young age, Cecil had every single "boy" gendered type of toy imaginable...fire trucks, hot wheels, dump trucks, etc. but he had no interest in them. Instead, he would be found sneaking into his sisters room to play with her dolls and dress up in her clothes. I am talking about when he was 2 or 3 years old. They tried to pursued him to take to other "boy" type activities, but he just didn't care for them.

Cecil's Father was very much a part of his life and most people actually blamed him for Cecil coming out of the closet when he was about 13. Most people assumed that his Dad must not have spent enough time with him or something, but that was not the case.

I believe that there are people out there who love the feel of "acting" different for shock value or to draw attention to themselves or whatever, but I strongly believe having known Cecil all of his life, he didn't have a choice, he is who he is. And he happens to be a pretty super guy IMO.

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 07:56 PM

I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior.

That's the great thing about BBS, we can ignore if we want or reply if we want.

My reply....http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/whatever.gif

Bahet

08-09-2007, 08:02 PM

All I will add to this discussion is that there is NO verified scientific proof that Gay people are born that way.

This is a fallacious belief that has been propogated to force people into believing that being Gay or Straight is 100% the same.

Plus the average person especially if they are NON-Religious will feel that they HAVE to accept homosexuality if Science can prove that they are born that way.

I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior. Studies have proven that the brains of alcoholics are different than the brains of people who ONLY drink socially or dont drink at all. This doesnt mean that the person whos brain is markedly different was born that way. Rather it displays natural cause and effect.

Just my opinion for what its worth. Please if you dont like it IGNORE it.
That makes no logical sense at all. You are saying that straight people who have no attraction to their same sex not only choose to date people they are not remotely attracted to but avoid those they are attracted to. Then they date and engage in sexual activity they find disgusting with these people they are not attracted to so much and so often that it changes their brains. That's just stupid.

I hate lima beans. They are nasty and if I never eat another one that's fine by me. So guess what? I don't eat them! Not only would I not choose to eat them but I wouldn't choose to eat them so often that it rewired my brain.

fjp999

08-09-2007, 08:03 PM

What about animals that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature?

Curious,
frank

p.s. I believe I was born a bi-sexual with a thing for the same sex!

ilovecats

08-09-2007, 08:07 PM

PrincessArky

08-09-2007, 08:08 PM

That's the great thing about BBS, we can ignore if we want or reply if we want.

My reply....http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/whatever.gif

ditto

ahippiechic

08-09-2007, 08:25 PM

If it's caused by sin, can someone please tell why children at 10, 11, 12 and even younger in some case, are gay? What sinning have they been doing?

jedmatters

08-09-2007, 08:37 PM

What about animals that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature?

My dog!!!!

My little daschund is gay. He has nothing to do with female dogs at all. But bring a male dog over and he gets happy, rolls over and shows everyone how happy he is!!!!
And he is 4 years old.

There was also an article not long ago about two male penguins, that refused to leave one another to reproduce. They were quite the couple. Here is a link
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL

Lasher

08-09-2007, 09:28 PM

Lasher

08-09-2007, 09:29 PM

If it's caused by sin, can someone please tell why children at 10, 11, 12 and even younger in some case, are gay? What sinning have they been doing?

No, it's the homoghost, remember smurfy told us about it, it sneaks up on little children while they are playing, and poof they are gay

Lasher

08-09-2007, 09:31 PM

Well look who showed up. LOL

I think people are born gay. I don't think its some kind of decision they make later in life. I mean, I don't remember sitting around thinking... damn, I've got to make a decision soon. Gay or not? Hmm...

Well if you need an application let me know, we interview on Wednesdays from 2pm-4pm, be sure to have references.

Shann

08-09-2007, 09:34 PM

There was also an article not long ago about two male penguins, that refused to leave one another to reproduce. They were quite the couple. Here is a link
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL

Oh my gosh, that is so sweet! I love how they raised a little one together :kiss just makes me feel all warm and squishy inside.

Lasher

08-09-2007, 09:36 PM

I shall call him squishy and he shall be mine and he shall be my squishy

Shann

08-09-2007, 09:43 PM

I shall call him squishy and he shall be mine and he shall be my squishy

yeah! I love squishy! :love: :grouphug hehe

cpbaby

08-10-2007, 05:20 AM

No, it's the homoghost, remember smurfy told us about it, it sneaks up on little children while they are playing, and poof they are gay

I have a cousin who woke up one morning and POOF "the gay was GONE" from him.....of course, the fact that he was living with his gay lover and his wife was divorcing him and planning on taking him for EVERYTHING HE HAD(and he had alot) may have had something to do with it. The fool took him back after that and now she doesnt care that he has two 3-hour counselling sessions with his former gay lover a week......As everyone in the family now knows because Cousin, wife and Cousin's gay lover went on Geraldo and told the world......:twitch

andreame70

08-10-2007, 05:34 AM

Just because a boy plays with dolls and plays dress up does not mean he was born gay. I played with hotwheels and I'm not gay. My sister and I dress up our little brother and played Barbie's with him and he is a youth pastor and he's not gay.There is too much of a sterotype going on. Some boys play with girls toys and grow up fine. Just like girls who are "tomboys" like I was and do not end up gay...

Oh certainly I know that just because a boy plays with a doll and dresses up doesn't mean he is born gay. However, when this type of behavior lasts from the time they are 2 on up until the time they become an adult, then I think it is pretty safe to assume that this is just the way they are.

I guess I should have gone into more detail so you could understand. Cecil started playing with the dolls and dressing up around the age of 2, the difference between him and other boys is that he never stopped. I remember one Christmas when he was 9 or 10, all he wanted was the Barbi dollhouse and the Barbi head that you put make-up on and style her hair. When he became a teenager around 13 or 14, for his birthday the only thing he wanted was for his parents to paint his bedroom pink. At that age, he was still playing with his Easybake oven. He was never interested in any activities that you would expect a boy to participate in like baseball or basketball.

In his middle to late teenage years, he began shaving his legs, waxing his eyebrows, shaving his facial hair and wearing make-up. His parents would not allow him to wear make-up in their presence, so he would sneak around and do it. He openly admitted to everyone that he wanted to be a girl and he wished that he had been born female.

The last time I saw Cecil, he was working with a doctor to eventually schedule a future sex change operation. He lives with his boyfriend in Ga and he changed his name to Whitley. For the last 10 years or better he has lived as a female.

Lasher

08-10-2007, 06:12 AM

Just because a boy plays with dolls and plays dress up does not mean he was born gay. I played with hotwheels and I'm not gay. My sister and I dress up our little brother and played barbies with him and he is a youth pastor and he's not gay.There is too much of a sterotype going on. Some boys play with girls toys and grow up fine. Just like girls who are "tomboys" like I was and do not end up gay...

you don't end up gay, you are or you aren't

PrincessArky

08-10-2007, 06:16 AM

you don't end up gay, you are or you aren't

exactly

VenuStar

08-10-2007, 06:18 AM

choose gay... choose gay... then we can :knuddel: all night long ;)

:dancing: I'm with ya shanny

ahippiechic

08-10-2007, 06:33 AM

I don't think a 10 or 11 year old would really know if they were gay or not..

I knew. Everyone I thought was 'sooo cute' or had crushes on, were boys.

I was 7 in 1st grade. I had a BF. We wrote notes with hearts on them and held hands on the playground. All the crushes I had were male. My friend Leesa, OTOH, only had crushes on girls. I probably had never heard the word 'gay' and I doubt Leesa had either. So no it wasn't 'pushed' on her. I know I just didn't say, "hmmm, should my BF be a boy or a girl??" It wasn't something I 'decided'. It just was. And from what Leesa has told me, it was that way for her too. By the time we finished elemtary school, her parents had already made sure she was too scared to admit to liking girls, so we had BF's in jr high. And me (and everyone else, too) could tell that she wasn't really into these boys that we hung out with after school. She had crushes on other girls and I could always tell which one she was crushing on, even tho she tried to hide it. She even got married at 18 and had a child at 19. When she was 25, she took her child and disappeared. Her parents would never tell me anything else about her nor where she was. I got a letter from her when I was 30, telling me that she lived in Atlanta, with her girlfriend and child and that she was very happy. I'm 43 now and we still talk, I visited her 3 years ago and met her GF.

Ok, that was long, lol! But I really don't think you can help who you are attracted too. I honestly can't see how you 'decide' something like that. You decide to whether you do anything about your feeling or not, but about having the feelings themselves, I don't think so.

Lasher

08-10-2007, 06:39 AM

By the time we finished elemtary school, her parents had already made sure she was too scared to admit to liking girls,.

That's why you don't here too many kids coming out. But when I was in Tuscaloosa and we started TAGSLY, we had 15 kids staying in the frat house we took ( frat boys forgot to renew their lease, another story) all of the kids were there because their parents kicked them out for coming out. The youngest was 8. He's almost 15 now, goes to highschool this year, he's parents still want nothing to do with him. My sociology professor from UA adopted him.

LuvBigRip

08-10-2007, 07:19 AM

I shall call him squishy and he shall be mine and he shall be my squishy

LMAO. Me and DD tell each other "Bad Squishy" all the time. :rofl:

Bahet

08-10-2007, 11:08 AM

I don't think a 10 or 11 year old would really know if they were gay or not.. Of course it could be pushed in their face and if someone kept teasing them saying they were gay they may end up thinking they are. I think being gay is a choice. Doesn't mean people should judge them. Smoking is a choice and I hate it when people judge me. All people sin, even children, but since they are just a child and haven't reached the maturity level, if they died they would still go to heaven..

I had a crush on a few boys by the time I was 11. My sister is gay. She had a crush on a few girls by that age. She just didn't voice it. No one teased her or called her gay. No one knew she was gay until she came out when she was in her 20s. She dated a few guys when she was a teen. She hated it but did it anyway because it was what society expected of her. She finally decided it was no one else's business who she dated and began dating people she was romantically attracted to - other women. She didn't make a choice to be gay. She made a choice to try to be straight but just couldn't continue living that lie.

dcut4

08-10-2007, 12:33 PM

I went to school with a guy from K-12th. Doug only lived a block from me so the majority of our childhood was spent together, either in school or the neighborhood. I met him when he was 5 and looking back there is no way he was not gay even then. He always played with us girls (yes there were plenty of boys in the neighborhood too) and he just seemed like one of us. He was more feminine than any of us. He tried to date girls in high school because his family would not have been very accepting, and the rest of us who knew him well would kind of look at each other like what the heck is going on? Finally at our high school reunion we came out to us, no shock at all. He was finally happy after years of denying who he was. Did that 5 year old I met and KNEW to be gay choose the way he felt, did that 5 year old sin, I dont think so.

My sister in law is also gay. She defiantly did not choose this life style. She has had so many hardships because of it.

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 02:22 PM

choose gay... choose gay... then we can :knuddel: all night long ;)

Ok!! :D I just DECIDED to be gay, just for you Shann... and Lasher, of course! ;) :knuddel: :kiss

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 02:24 PM

Well if you need an application let me know, we interview on Wednesdays from 2pm-4pm, be sure to have references.

I would love an application, thank you! I have a few references. ;)

Oh, how should I dress for this interview? I don't want to be under/over dressed. Would my "work clothes" be ok? ;) :rolling

evrita

08-10-2007, 03:06 PM

I would love an application, thank you! I have a few references. ;)

Oh, how should I dress for this interview? I don't want to be under/over dressed. Would my "work clothes" be ok? ;) :rolling

I think she would prefer Nekkid :rules

Lasher

08-10-2007, 04:17 PM

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 04:31 PM

I think she would prefer Nekkid :rules

That would be my work clothes, since I am a stripper. :slap

:rolling

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 04:32 PM

Worn jeans, wife beater, flip flops, and you need to get a tongue ring if you don't already have one, and grab a thumb ring

Ok, I have everything but the tongue ring. Will get that this weekend. ;)

Lasher

08-10-2007, 04:34 PM

Ok, I have everything but the tongue ring. Will get that this weekend. ;)

don't getting the vibrating one, it's like licking a 9 volt

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 04:36 PM

don't getting the vibrating one, it's like licking a 9 volt

:afraid:

Lasher

08-10-2007, 04:39 PM

:afraid:

LMAO

ahippiechic

08-10-2007, 04:45 PM

don't getting the vibrating one, it's like licking a 9 volt

LMFAO! http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lick.gif
http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif

So if it's a decision, I can decide to be gay for a little while, then decide not to be gay when my DH comes home! :dancing:

Lasher

08-10-2007, 04:48 PM

LMFAO! http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lick.gif
http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif

So if it's a decision, I can decide to be gay for a little while, then decide not to be gay when my DH comes home! :dancing:

exactly

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 05:01 PM

Lasher

08-10-2007, 05:03 PM

well you have to have some other skills too

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Would it help my application process move a little quicker if I know how to do this??

http://www.hardwaregeeks.com/board/images/smilies/eat%20ou23t.gif

Lasher

08-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Would it help my application process move a little quicker if I know how to do this??

http://www.hardwaregeeks.com/board/images/smilies/eat%20ou23t.gif

I'm thinking yes

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 05:06 PM

I'm thinking yes

Awesome!! :rolling

ahippiechic

08-10-2007, 05:35 PM

Would it help my application process move a little quicker if I know how to do this??

http://www.hardwaregeeks.com/board/images/smilies/eat%20ou23t.gif

I can do that too! http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lick.gif

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 05:39 PM

I can do that too! http://myhippiespace.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/lick.gif

I think they sould put our applications at the front of the stack since we can both do that. :lol

Lasher

08-10-2007, 05:46 PM

http://forums.torrentspy.com/images/smilies/repplus.gif

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 06:07 PM

http://forums.torrentspy.com/images/smilies/repplus.gif

YAY!!! :happy

ilovecats

08-10-2007, 06:50 PM

I guess I should have gone into more detail so you could understand. Cecil started playing with the dolls and dressing up around the age of 2, the difference between him and other boys is that he never stopped. I remember one Christmas when he was 9 or 10, all he wanted was the Barbi dollhouse and the Barbi head that you put make-up on and style her hair. When he became a teenager around 13 or 14, for his birthday the only thing he wanted was for his parents to paint his bedroom pink. At that age, he was still playing with his Easybake oven. He was never interested in any activities that you would expect a boy to participate in like baseball or basketball.

In his middle to late teenage years, he began shaving his legs, waxing his eyebrows, shaving his facial hair and wearing make-up. His parents would not allow him to wear make-up in their presence, so he would sneak around and do it. He openly admitted to everyone that he wanted to be a girl and he wished that he had been born female.

The last time I saw Cecil, he was working with a doctor to eventually schedule a future sex change operation. He lives with his boyfriend in Ga and he changed his name to Whitley. For the last 10 years or better he has lived as a female.
Actually I don't think he is gay.Some people are born the wrong (right)sex in the wrong body.I think the term is transsexual.I may be wrong about the name but have seen shows on tv about people that always felt they were in the wrong body.These people have felt that way as far back as 2yr olds.This is definately NOT something anyone would choose to do,it is just how they were born.

jedmatters

08-10-2007, 06:59 PM

Well if you need an application let me know, we interview on Wednesdays from 2pm-4pm, be sure to have references.

Is there a sign up gift, like a toaster oven... at least a calendar that can stick to the visor?

What if I am not gay, but help recruit for you, do I get a bonus? Is it person?

ANYWAY:

About 10 years ago my cousin was studying to be an EMT, and he read that there are certain nerves in men and women that are geared toward sex. In gay men, they are smaller than straight men... in gay women, they are larger than straight women. I do not recall the nerve name.

That sounds like something you would be born with.

pepperpot

08-10-2007, 07:23 PM

Actually I don't think he is gay.Some people are born the wrong (right)sex in the wrong body.I think the term is transsexual.I may be wrong about the name but have seen shows on tv about people that always felt they were in the wrong body.These people have felt that way as far back as 2yr olds.This is definately NOT something anyone would choose to do,it is just how they were born.

My first thought was that this person was transgender as well, not 'gay'...

Anywho, firstly, I agree, it's not a 'chosen' but a 'born with'. However, at 13 years of age, I'm not sure if you truly know your sexual identity thoroughly. Could it be he was befriended by a kind individual of he same sex (not necessarily in a sexual nature) and feels very 'close' to this person, therefore equates this with being 'gay'? While some might know it from the age of 2...couldn't there be 'impressionable' children who aren't thoroughly versed in what 'gay' actually means? For me at 13, I did not have any grand scale sexual urges...but I was 'drawn' to boys.

I wouldn't dismiss this child, but I would certainly take what he claims into consideration and look at the lifestyle and his associations. Not all 13 yo are created equal in the maturation level....and true understanding in the definitions and terms that are used.

pepperpot

08-10-2007, 08:12 PM

That does make sense......... BUT, I dated a guy in highschool who was straight. Went out with girls etc.. After high school he joined the Navy and came back from the Navy "gay"........ Now how do you explain that?? Had to have been a choice........

What if he felt pressured into pretending to be straight? Not 'changing' his mind?

ahippiechic

08-10-2007, 08:16 PM

Tasha405

08-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Ive known several people who didn't admit to being gay until later in life. They pretend to be straight for a mydrid of reasons and tried to hide the way they really felt. They didn't just make a choice and decide to be gay, they always felt that way, they just decided to admit it.

ITA!!! I also have some gay male friends who dated girls during school and didn't "come out" until after they had graduated.

jedmatters

08-11-2007, 05:39 AM

I know a young man that dated the same girl for 3 years, and their senior year, he admitted he was gay.
She knew the whole time. She said that she "dated" him so that people would not tease him (high schoolers can be cruel). Or threaten him.

He is a great young man, and a friend of my son's. He came out to a few select friends, one being my son. Everyone was shocked, but then said.... Hey, it works, and the real person was able to be seen.

I also know a teacher that was married for 24 years, has 2 children and recently left her husband for another woman. She married because that is what her family wanted... girls got married and had children. She fought the true feelings the entire time. She is a great lady, and when she finally left her husband and admitted her true self, she was free, she was less stress, and actually a better person. She no longer had to hide or fear anything.

So, no, I do not think it is a choice.. it is there from the beginning. Being gay s not a phase someone goes through. People cannot be reprogrammed. People that are considered "reprogrammed" to be straight, are in denial, and end up divorced, and miserable. They find themselves living a lie, and many end up committing suicide.
As for people who have no preference: that is not gay: it is bi.

Quaker_Parrots

08-11-2007, 05:49 AM

I know a young man that dated the same girl for 3 years, and their senior year, he admitted he was gay.
She knew the whole time. She said that she "dated" him so that people would not tease him (high schoolers can be cruel). Or threaten him.

I had a friend in school that had the same situation. He 'dated' another friend and supposedly a second friend, and they started a rumor around school that the one might be pregnant by him, just to keep the jocks off his back.

He was a student mangaer of the basketball team our freshman year. His daddy found out he was gay and sent him to live with his grandmother our junior year. He is openly gay now. I for one am glad he is happy. I love him for who he he is, not his sexual orientation.

He always mostly had girls for friends growing up.

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 10:29 PM

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 10:33 PM

just as there is NO verified scientific proof that they are not, or is there and I missed it?

No, you are right. Be honest though, there are some Doctors and Scientists that have a PRESSING need to prove that homosexuality is NOT a choice. There are some people who have practically made it there lifes work. Yet still there has been no clear evidence that Gays are born that way.

If there were any people in Academia trying to prove that GAy people are NOT born that way and that was a stated bias, they would LOSE their funding and be called a bunch of Homophobes.

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 10:39 PM

That makes no logical sense at all. You are saying that straight people who have no attraction to their same sex not only choose to date people they are not remotely attracted to but avoid those they are attracted to. Then they date and engage in sexual activity they find disgusting with these people they are not attracted to so much and so often that it changes their brains. That's just stupid.

I hate lima beans. They are nasty and if I never eat another one that's fine by me. So guess what? I don't eat them! Not only would I not choose to eat them but I wouldn't choose to eat them so often that it rewired my brain.

Actually no its not stupid. People do it ALL the time there are MANY many instances of girls who dont even want to have sex allowing themslves to be used by men in a desperate attempt to feel wanted and loved. There are also MANY confused young men out there who have poor relationships with their fathers and are desperately craving male attention and affection. Some men take advantage of that.

Certainly this doesnt address all instances of homosexual behavior, but I think it addresses your comment.

People are often willing to give in to the needs and wants of others to be loved accepted etc.

How do you think so many young children get talked into sexual situations with pedophiles.

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 10:44 PM

What about animals that exhibit homosexual behavior in nature?

Curious,
frank

p.s. I believe I was born a bi-sexual with a thing for the same sex!

To start with MAN is not an animal. No other creature in nature has introspection, reflection etc etc. Animals have almost no choice but to act on their urges. An animal may display homosexual tendencies, but I can GUARANTEE you that if they are seperated from male animals and placed in captivity with fertile females, the animal that you thought was homosexual

WILL mate with the female.

Wolves and dogs do not mate in nature, but in captivity they will.

Animal behaviors are a poor indicator of HUMAN behaviors. Would you mate with an orangutan? I certainly wouldnt no matter how long I was locked up with them.

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 10:49 PM

Oh certainly I know that just because a boy plays with a doll and dresses up doesn't mean he is born gay. However, when this type of behavior lasts from the time they are 2 on up until the time they become an adult, then I think it is pretty safe to assume that this is just the way they are.

I guess I should have gone into more detail so you could understand. Cecil started playing with the dolls and dressing up around the age of 2, the difference between him and other boys is that he never stopped. I remember one Christmas when he was 9 or 10, all he wanted was the Barbi dollhouse and the Barbi head that you put make-up on and style her hair. When he became a teenager around 13 or 14, for his birthday the only thing he wanted was for his parents to paint his bedroom pink. At that age, he was still playing with his Easybake oven. He was never interested in any activities that you would expect a boy to participate in like baseball or basketball.

In his middle to late teenage years, he began shaving his legs, waxing his eyebrows, shaving his facial hair and wearing make-up. His parents would not allow him to wear make-up in their presence, so he would sneak around and do it. He openly admitted to everyone that he wanted to be a girl and he wished that he had been born female.

The last time I saw Cecil, he was working with a doctor to eventually schedule a future sex change operation. He lives with his boyfriend in Ga and he changed his name to Whitley. For the last 10 years or better he has lived as a female.

Gender confusion isnt EXACTLY the same as being gay now is it. He wanted to be a WOMAN and have sex with men.

In MY OPINION only this is indicative of serious psychological issues. Therapy and self reflection may have done more for this person than any surgery.

AGAIN, just my opinion.

pepperpot

08-11-2007, 10:51 PM

Would you mate with an orangutan? I certainly wouldnt no matter how long I was locked up with them.

If he considered you his 'hot mamma', you might not have a chioce! :lol

renaissanceman

08-11-2007, 11:40 PM

I am going to detail JUST the facts of what I know about several people in my life who are gay bi or have been impacted in some way by the Gay lifestyle.

First, my father was molested when he was fairly young, this left him afraid that he was going to be gay. After all he thought if you can have a sexual experience with someone and you actually finish you MUST have enjoyed it right? This led to an inappropriate relationship with a widow woman when he was 13. He realizes that he was wrong and she was wrong but he at least KNEW that he was not gay.

I have a woman relative who is SERIOUSLY psychologically damaged due to having been abused by a male member of her family. She actually got married to a decent guy and had some kids, then she had a breakdown and got a divorce and started living as a lesbian. She doesnt even know what memories of her childhood are hers or from neighbors or tv!

I have male members of my family that have been abused by men who went on to abuse others. One of them has overcome all of his past and has a traditional family. The other is Bi. I personally believe that his hurt and confusion has made him an opportunistic sexual being.

Just recently I found out that my whole family has been hiding the fact that one of my male relatives is gay. It is the big dirty secret of the family. He actually doesnt care who knows, thats how I found out. he has all of his laundry out there on myspace for the WORLD to see. Yet the family isnt talking about it. Ostensibly to protect my grandparents who are old fashioned baptists.

My wife also has a cousin who was married had dated and had sex with men all her life and had kids. Then one day she decided that a man was never going to treat her the way she wanted and started dating women, does that make her a lesbian? Or a person who made a choice.

We also have SEVERAL different groups who are stating publicly that it is NORMAL for people to have their first sexual experiences at ages as young as 6!

SIX!

You have groups like NAMBLA who have slogans like "sex by 8 or its too late!" because they know that if they get a kid young and talk them into consensual sex they will most likely be gay and continue the trend.

I can say that I also have known personally many other Gay people. I wont say that every person who is gay had a poor relationship with their dad or was abused. But there are so many of them out there that it is VERY hard not to think that there are some psychological aspects to the homosexual phenomenon.

My relative who I just found out about certainly SEEMED to have a traditional family life. I know that his family and the church he went to never gave him the idea that he was Gay or that it was acceptable. However, for several years his favorite show has been Will & Grace and he went to public school.

I am not going to say that watching gay friendly shows and being told OVER AND OVER that being gay is NORMAL and a perfectly healthy and respectable choice can MAKE people gay.

I will say that I have a 15 yr old son and we are ALL constantly amazed at how many kids today Identify themselves as BI. I think that for most people who havent actually developed a sexual identity, growing up in this current soceity they think that they are WRONG for not entertaining that possibility.

When you add to that the fact that many kids first experiences are with kids of the same sex during sleep overs etc. How are kids NOT supposed to be gay or at least Bi.

If we actually tried to shield kids from sexual imagery and idealism, until they were ready to make their own choices. like at least 18 I believe that we would have FAR FAR less people saying they are gay.

Just because some people have sex with a cow does that make them a Bovine sexual, or an opportunistic sicko?

I HONESTLY do not believe that ANYONE is born gay.

Lets face it folks we have kids today that have been exposed to WAAAY to much, way too soon. I call it the sexification of our youth. We have kids having sex IN class while other kids act as lookouts. We have 6 yr old kids getting caught acting innapropriately in the bushes at schools.

My youngest son went to kindergarten last year and he used to come home complaining about how he only like to use the bathroom in the class because some of the other little boys would try to look at you in the big bathroom. WHAT the hell is that about? I never went around trying to stare at other kids!

Then we have examples like a school in Pennsylvania where a 12 yr old kid raped a 6 yr old boy in a school bathroom. The administartion COVERED it up. The police were not notified and then a few months later the kid struck again! The community parents tried to sue the schools only to be told that the Schools, JUST LIKE the police have no responsibility to the individual.

So, you pay taxes and send your kid to school and if something happens to them EVEN if the administration genuinely could have prevented it, you can not sue! None of my kids will EVER be in a public school again.

As parents MANY of us are failing, we expect STRANGERS, tv and internet to raise our kids and teach them values. Then we wonder what happened?

As a Christian (and I know that this wont matter to most people) I also remember that if people are born gay, then the Bible is wrong once again.

God wouldnt condemn someone for something that they couldnt help.

ANYONE would be an unreasonable person to say that a person was wrong for something that they CANNOT help. That is why some people are trying so hard to get us to believe that gay people are born that way.

I know that SOME people here are going to get REALLY annoyed now, all I can say is please actually think about what I have said. Or if you choose to NOT consider other peoples ideas, then ignore me.

After all, this is ONLY my opinion right?

Bahet

08-12-2007, 12:08 AM

To start with MAN is not an animal. No other creature in nature has introspection, reflection etc etc. Animals have almost no choice but to act on their urges. An animal may display homosexual tendencies, but I can GUARANTEE you that if they are seperated from male animals and placed in captivity with fertile females, the animal that you thought was homosexual

WILL mate with the female.

Wolves and dogs do not mate in nature, but in captivity they will.

Animal behaviors are a poor indicator of HUMAN behaviors. Would you mate with an orangutan? I certainly wouldnt no matter how long I was locked up with them.

Every living thing is a plant or an animal. I don't know about you, but I'm not a plant. All living creatures are broken down into kingdom 1st, then phylum, class, order, family, genus, and finally species. The only 2 kingdoms are the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom. Every species of animal has it's own unique qualities also. The duckbilled platypus is the only creature in nature with a duck bill, beaver tail, and fur but that doesn't mean it's not an animal just because it's the only creature to fit certain characteristics.

The 2 penguins pointed out previously were taken by zookeepers ad tried to mate with females. They didn't want to. I guess that makes them plants.

Yes, sometimes abuse creates psychological issues. That's a bigger and diffferent subject than homosexuality though. You cannot say that someone who is sexually abused and ends up gay proves that sexual abuse creates homosexuals any more than you can say that someone who is sexually abused and ends up straight did so because they were sexually abused. Do you have some statistics to show that a statistically significant number of sexually abused persons are gay? It seems that you just throw your own prejudices out there like they are facts with no backup whatsoever. The APA disagrees that sexual abuse causes homosexuality so perhaps you could provide some facts rather than biased, uneducated guesses.

renaissanceman

08-12-2007, 12:28 AM

Every living thing is a plant or an animal. I don't know about you, but I'm not a plant. All living creatures are broken down into kingdom 1st, then phylum, class, order, family, genus, and finally species. The only 2 kingdoms are the plant kingdom and the animal kingdom. Every species of animal has it's own unique qualities also. The duckbilled platypus is the only creature in nature with a duck bill, beaver tail, and fur but that doesn't mean it's not an animal just because it's the only creature to fit certain characteristics.

The 2 penguins pointed out previously were taken by zookeepers ad tried to mate with females. They didn't want to. I guess that makes them plants.

Yes, sometimes abuse creates psychological issues. That's a bigger and diffferent subject than homosexuality though. You cannot say that someone who is sexually abused and ends up gay proves that sexual abuse creates homosexuals any more than you can say that someone who is sexually abused and ends up straight did so because they were sexually abused. Do you have some statistics to show that a statistically significant number of sexually abused persons are gay? It seems that you just throw your own prejudices out there like they are facts with no backup whatsoever. The APA disagrees that sexual abuse causes homosexuality so perhaps you could provide some facts rather than biased, uneducated guesses.

OK, first off NO I am not an ANIMAL. I certainly am not a vegetable and you are only arguing semantics because of your own personal bias.

Certainly the male penquins might not WANT to have sex with females, what we dont know is how long they have been allowed to behave in the current fashion. If they were seperated and placed with females only THEY WILL MATE!

The APA is like any other academic panel they will change views based on current thinking and popular opinion.

You are also mis representing what I have said. I NEVER said that ALL or even a LARGE majority of gay people are only gay due to abuse and whats more YOU know that.

I never claimed that what I was saying was fact. Why do the people who disagree with me want to

TWIST my words and intentions so badly?

You have your beliefs primarily because you have a relative who is gay. I have mine because I choose to follow the bible.

Not only that but folks who believe in evolution USUALLY believe that gay behavior is normal as well.

HOW do you explain homosexuality in naturalistic terms? Darwinism explains evolutionary changes and developments based on survival of the fittest.,

JUST how does homosexuality help any species reproduce or thrive?

Adra

08-12-2007, 04:48 AM

renaissanceman
That was based on bible principles, and I agree with all that you said.

God is not the author of confusion, homosexuality is not natural, therefore it is confusion.

Tasha405

08-12-2007, 06:49 AM

The same reason some people choose to gamble, drink, do drugs, rape, kill etc etc.

Its called free will. WE ALL sometimes make choices that are not in our best interests.

None of these are the same as someone being gay. These are choices, being gay is not.

Do you ever remember making the decision to be straight?

Lasher

08-12-2007, 12:08 PM

JUST how does homosexuality help any species reproduce or thrive?

The same way any other decent human being does, by living a good life and being a positive member of the community.

The fact that someone can't or choses not to reproduce, doesn't make their life less valid.

Bahet

08-12-2007, 01:58 PM

You are either a member of the animal kingdom, the plant kingdom or you are an inanimate object. It's not an insult, it's a scientific fact. I'm just as much a part of the animal kingdom as every other person. You are the one twisting words if you think I am saying that as an insult. It has nothing to do with personal bias. It's scientific fact. There is no room for personal bias in scientific fact. A fact based on bias is not a fact at all.

Saying humans are animals is a taxonomic classification in science. It's no more an insult to say that humans are animals than it is to say that humans are mammals. http://www.learner.org/channel/courses/essential/life/session2/closer4.html

ahippiechic

08-12-2007, 02:14 PM

Humans are part of the animal kingdom. There are many different types of animals and we are one of them. We may be the only ones to have 'introspection, reflection etc etc' and we may not rely on our 'animal instincts' as much as say, a wolf does. But that's the way we are classifed, because of the things we have in common.

Bahet

08-12-2007, 02:21 PM

RM, you said a history of sexual abuse addresses my comment that it is illogical that someone would engage in sexuality activity they find disgusting with someone they are not attracted to. I made that comment in response to you saying "I PERSONALLY believe that if there is anything different about the brain phsiology or chemistry of a gay person that this is a verifiable consequence of sinful behavior."

So you are in effect saying that if homosexuals are wired differently it is because they were sexually abused. What about those who weren't sexually abused? I cannot think of one reason someone who is heterosexual would choose to be homosexual. It certainly isn't for the societal benefits.

I couldn't choose to be homosexual if I wanted to. I am not gay. I'm just not. I think Angelina Jolie is gorgeous. But the thought of kissing her is about as appealing as making out with a relative. Do you think you could learn to like the idea of having sex with George Clooney? What if you did it over and over, do you think you would start to like it? So what makes you think that some other man who was born straight and wasn't abused could or would want to learn to like being sexually involved with some other guy? Your reasoning and theories are based on personally biased guesses with no factual support whatsoever. It's like trying to argue that the sky is blue with someone who says "Well I believe it's flourescent green."

ilovecats

08-12-2007, 06:41 PM

You have your beliefs primarily because you have a relative who is gay. I have mine because I choose to follow the bible.

I have the same beliefs and do not have A relative or close friend who is gay.The few gay people I have met were people who were A friend of A friend.

Bahet

08-12-2007, 08:07 PM

I have the same beliefs and do not have A relative or close friend who is gay.The few gay people I have met were people who were A friend of A friend.

Thanks for reminding me to address this. I had the same beliefs I do now before I knew my sister was gay. Her personal life didn't change my views. They made it a more personally invested issue for me but it didn't change the way I thought or acted.