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View Full Version : Religion, this Forum and my two cents....



quietvixsin
07-24-2007, 12:17 PM
I have been sitting back quietly reading these threads for a while now. Although I have been a member here for quite a few years, I don't post a lot unless something really compels me. Today is one of those days I guess, because truly feel compelled to say something. Please understand, I am not pointing fingers at any one person, nor am I slamming anyone at all. I am just very sad and need to say what's on my mind.


First off, let me say that I don't consider myself to be a religious person and I haven't been to church in ages. I do, however, consider myself to be a spiritual person. By this I mean to say that I have a clear set of beliefs, I try very hard to live a life that is both moral and pleasing to God, and the beliefs I do hold are an ever present source of support for me in this chaotic world we live in. I do not feel the need to label myself any more than that... I don't feel that I have to say that I am Methodist, Catholic, Christian, Muslim, etc... If you disagree with me on that choice, that's fine with me. I don't live to please others.

Now with that being said... let me go on to say that I have been very disappointed in how some people have comported themselves within the Religion threads recently. I certainly understand that renaissanceman's beliefs and his way of expressing those beliefs gets under some people's skin, but I have been very saddened to see how many of the threads deteriorated into defamatory and/or derogatory personal statements. Doesn't this go directly against our teachings as supposed "Christians"? I saw very similar things happen within the church and amongst it's members when I was still active. I am very very sad to say it is things like this that ultimately led me to move away from "religion" and going to church. I loathe hypocrisy. I also take serious issue with folks who like to carry the "I'm a Christian" banner around, yet who at the same time act in ways that are so completely opposite what we are taught in church. Can't we all just take a moment to step back and think before we post the first thing that comes into our heads? I do realize that Religion is a touchy subject for some, but if you can't read and respond thoughtfully and respectfully I would think it would be better to just say nothing.

In the last few years I have felt a yearning or need to reconnect with my faith, or to rediscover it. Reading alot of the stuff in these threads has made me stop and re-evaluate that desire though. If this is how "Christians" behave, I'll have to pass and say "No Thanks".

Heidi
07-24-2007, 12:38 PM
Doesn't this go directly against our teachings as supposed "Christians"? I saw very similar things happen within the church and amongst it's members when I was still active. I am very very sad to say it is things like this that ultimately led me to move away from "religion" and going to church. I loathe hypocrisy.


That is 100% why I have no desire to go back to church. When people that taught you as a child in Sunday school all of the sudden cheat on their wives, abandon their "real" family, etc and still claim to be holy. It's like all the things you were taught, makes you wonder. I truely believe that a person can be pleasing to god and not be a member of a church.

Val1
07-24-2007, 05:52 PM
Quietvixsin, I agree with you that a religious forum is not the place to be judgmental and point fingers or disparage others. Really, we should be seeking to learn from each other respectfully, even if we do not happen to agree on points of theology or spirituality.

Sometimes if a subject is up for debate, people can go overboard and take things personally. It's hard at times to accept that just because someone else says "Well I think you're WRONG" that that does not make it a fact. After all, most of us rely very much on FAITH which cannot be proven.

I did want to say that all of us fail at times to keep the respectful and considerate attitude that we should towards our fellow brothers and sisters, be they of our faith or another faith. I'm new here but I know I've had some knock down drag out arguments over at MWT regarding faith where I then had to, after some reflection, go back and sincerely apologize to someone whom I'd argued with in an unkind way. We don't always have to agree but we should be able to be considerate to one another and respectful.

I know that I have learned an incredible amount from people of others faiths than mine. Two of the people I've come to respect the most over in our religious forum there were a Mormon gal and a Muslim gal who have really been wonderful about sharing the wisdom of their faith with me and showing it in their actions and posts.

I hope you won't let human frailties and failings color your whole perception of an organized religion. We all want to serve God but at times we do falter and focus too much on the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law, but that should reflect more on us as individuals rather than the larger group trying to glorify God.

I do see the value in your post, and I think that we should all remind ourselves that when we do stumble and act decidedly in ways that are not the most gracious and considerate that we should try to make reparations and start fresh.

ahippiechic
07-24-2007, 06:47 PM
First, I wanted to say that not everyone here is Christain. We have some Pagans, Muslums, agnostics, & athiests here also.

I don't have a problem with others having a differing opinion than me, I've learned a lot about other religions here. What bothers me (or gets under my skin, as you said) is that some people can't post their just their opinion. They post opinions as fact, as they post in a rude and hateful manner, accuse others of being things, then yes, the thread usually deteriorates into meaningless, hateful posts. I try to get out of a thread when it gets that way, because we have lost discussion priveledges here before for getting so heated about things.

I'd hate to see this forum go back to being "religious freebies only" like it has before.

DBackFan
07-27-2007, 12:53 PM
Thank you for a beautiful post quietvixsin. I agree completely with all you said and have often wondered why people love getting caught up in religious controversy in the first place. There have just been some mean and hateful things said in this forum and I don't care what religion someone is or if they are not religious at all IT JUST ISN'T RIGHT.

tngirl
07-28-2007, 09:16 PM
I understand what the OP is saying. There have been a lot of the threads in this forum that I have just stayed out of because of the ugliness of them. My relationship with God is personal, but, I do like to share my opinion and also hear others. It is not my place to say who is right and who is wrong. I believe to each its own.

cathych
08-01-2007, 09:29 PM
I agree totally. I too have felt persecuted here by ppl, because I am a Baha'i, & am probably certainly not of the "norm". I do not feel it is right to judge anyone because of their different religion any more than it would be to judge them because of any thing else. Just because a person does not think in the same way as you is no reason to dislike someone. It is really ironic that some of these same ppl are the same ones spouting off on patriotism & religious freedom.

tngirl
08-01-2007, 09:46 PM
I agree totally. I too have felt persecuted here by ppl, because I am a Baha'i, & am probably certainly not of the "norm". I do not feel it is right to judge anyone because of their different religion any more than it would be to judge them because of any thing else. Just because a person does not think in the same way as you is no reason to dislike someone. It is really ironic that some of these same ppl are the same ones spouting off on patriotism & religious freedom.

I have no problem with whatever the religion that anyone choses, but when someone constantly degrades my faith, I will defend it. I have noticed a lot of your post on this subject are rather derogatory and demeaning toward the Christian faith, maybe this is why other's may take offense to what you have to say. It is possible that you do not mean it to be such, but I am just saying that is how I have read some of your replies.

ahippiechic
08-01-2007, 10:49 PM
This forum is pretty tame compared to what it used to be. Juat ask Katt and MM! :D

Adra
08-02-2007, 03:42 AM
My opinion-
At one time I was an athiest and I despised it when people would come to me with their God this and soul that etc. I felt that if their was a God He surely did not need people selling Him like yard sale used items or touting Him like an infomercial on tv.

I suppose God got tired of the way I would swear at His children (like a sailor)and I met a lovely preachers wife I won't say that we were friends but we were walking buddies and somewhat closer than acquantances. One day we were talking on the phone and she said just the right thing and my heart changed.

She did not push God or call me names or make me feel bad she showed me Christian love. She did not judge me or tell me I was going to H***.

Now I am a Christian and I know that it is not my job to tell you what God thinks of you, or to tell you where you are going when you die. My job as a Christian is to love everyone, I don't have to like them but I do have to love them.If my heart is burdoned by their life then my job is to pray for them.

God does tell us to teach His word, He does not tell us to hit people over the head with it.

God is not the author of confusion.

MsLynn
08-02-2007, 06:07 AM
LET ME START BY SAYING THIS IS AIMED THE THE PEOPLE I KNOW PERSONALLY... NOT ANYONE ON HERE... I RESPECT EVERYONES BELIEFS.. WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT BELOW IS MY PERSONAL EXPERICENES WITH PEOPLE I KNOW..

this being said, I know and respect people who are christians and truely try to live the life they believe is right.


I too say i'm spiritual instead of religious

agree with you 100%, we've had this discussion at work. I work with some self proclaimed "christians" who are at the church everytime the doors are open, but they are the ones who are making most of us miserable with their lies, deceipt, manipulation and such... They tell me because i'm not in church every sunday i'm going to hell... (first off they make my schedule, do they want me in church or work???) but i tell them my bible says to "fellowship" it doesn't say i have to be in a "regular" church. and if thats the case are they telling me that these lil old ladies who's families have stuffed them in a nursing home or just forget them. because they can't drive anymore therefore can't get to church, they are going to hell? just because one of those so called "christians" can't be bothered to pick them up. Because they aren't in church they are going to hell??

I am burned out on Organized Religion for reasons like this. It annoys these people i work with when they want to call me a heathen and then try to quote the bible to me, and I can correct them on the verse or tell them, maybe they should go read all of that chapter, not just that one verse, they might find it doesn't mean quite what they think it does.

cathych
08-02-2007, 12:29 PM
I have no problem with whatever the religion that anyone choses, but when someone constantly degrades my faith, I will defend it. I have noticed a lot of your post on this subject are rather derogatory and demeaning toward the Christian faith, maybe this is why other's may take offense to what you have to say. It is possible that you do not mean it to be such, but I am just saying that is how I have read some of your replies.
What have I ever said that was derogatory against the Christain faith?

janelle
08-02-2007, 03:40 PM
quietvixsin I think it may help if you think of church as a hospital for the spiritually sick. No one who goes to church is perfect or even near it.

Go to church for yourself and not for anyone else. Pick a church who seems to you to be in harmony with what you think and feel. If you see some trying to disrupt others then you can always leave and go to another church. I would not let them keep you from joining a church community and the chance to worship God with others. They are not that powerful.

If someone is judgmental it can't hurt anyone unless people buy into what they are saying. You can get mad or you can laugh about it. We all have choices to make. Don't let a web site influence you about religion. Keep your eyes on God and not the people sitting next to you in church. We will all be disappointed if we watch what others do. It's only what Christ teaches that should influence us.

BeanieLuvR
08-02-2007, 04:25 PM
quietvixsin I think it may help if you think of church as a hospital for the spiritually sick. No one who goes to church is perfect or even near it.

Go to church for yourself and not for anyone else. Pick a church who seems to you to be in harmony with what you think and feel. If you see some trying to disrupt others then you can always leave and go to another church. I would not let them keep you from joining a church community and the chance to worship God with others. They are not that powerful.

If someone is judgmental it can't hurt anyone unless people buy into what they are saying. You can get mad or you can laugh about it. We all have choices to make. Don't let a web site influence you about religion. Keep your eyes on God and not the people sitting next to you in church. We will all be disappointed if we watch what others do. It's only what Christ teaches that should influence us.

Very well said. The way you worded it just touched my heart. Thanks for sharing your words of wisdom. :)

DrGrin
08-02-2007, 04:44 PM
quietvixsin I think it may help if you think of church as a hospital for the spiritually sick. No one who goes to church is perfect or even near it.

Go to church for yourself and not for anyone else. Pick a church who seems to you to be in harmony with what you think and feel. If you see some trying to disrupt others then you can always leave and go to another church. I would not let them keep you from joining a church community and the chance to worship God with others. They are not that powerful.

If someone is judgmental it can't hurt anyone unless people buy into what they are saying. You can get mad or you can laugh about it. We all have choices to make. Don't let a web site influence you about religion. Keep your eyes on God and not the people sitting next to you in church. We will all be disappointed if we watch what others do. It's only what Christ teaches that should influence us.

Janelle, this is one of the best posts I've read of yours on this forum. This is very wise advice.

lymi
08-02-2007, 06:36 PM
I am very fortunate to go to a small church with a great preacher. I gave up church for a while. Some people use church for a social gathering or prestege. I work for a couple that are the same religion as me. They treat the employees very bad, yet if one of there memebers shows up, they talk about how good they are. I go to work to worship God . I don't think you have to be in the building for God to know your heart. But, just as I show support for friends and family, I like to go to church to show support for God. I feel like I am taking time out of my busy schedule for him. I ask so much from Him, I just like to visit and praise him at his house sometimes. Our preacher says that Christian are some of the worse tippers at restaurants after church on Sundays. He does not approve of hyprocrecy. but sometimes, we do mess up and make mistakes. There are things I have done and am not proud of. I was in theraphy for a while. I told my therapist that I just keep praying over and over for forgiveness. She said I wasnt accepting forgiveness. My faith should believe that one time is all it takes, and God wipes it clean. That was so awesome. Our preacher at one time was aethist. He believes we should listen to all religions, because who are we to say whos right. He alllows us to participate in the sermon and comment on his words. He has really helped me to come back to church. Also, this church I go to, : I did something I am ashamed of and quit going. Everybody knew what I did. When I finally came back after years, they welcomed me like a long lost family member. They said there was only one perfect person and none of us are him. That is what church should be like. I wish ya'll could be here. Thank you

renaissanceman
08-09-2007, 04:59 PM
Our preacher at one time was aethist. He believes we should listen to all religions, because who are we to say whos right. He alllows us to participate in the sermon and comment on his words. He has really helped me to come back to church. Also, this church I go to, : I did something I am ashamed of and quit going. Everybody knew what I did. When I finally came back after years, they welcomed me like a long lost family member. They said there was only one perfect person and none of us are him. That is what church should be like. I wish ya'll could be here. Thank you

While this sounds like a group of GREAT people I have to take issue with your Pastor teaching that NONE of the believers can say who is rigt or wrong. THAT is exactly why there are so many religions and faiths today.

It is also the religion of the world Secular Humanism. Most people believe that there is no such thing as Truth and reality. These are nothing more than objective decisions. Man created God and therefore ALL religions and Faiths are equally wrong and FOOLISH.

If the Bible is true then there is Truth and Reality, if the bible is not real you are WASTING your time in going to any Church except that perhaps you feel good going there.

I personally believe that the Bible (KJV) is the inspired and preserved Word of God. This means that what I think DOESNT matter I go to his word. When I follow what God says instead of what I or anyone else THINKS, I am right. If someone teaches something contrary to the Bible they are WRONG. Seems easy enough to me.

Just my 2 cents.

janelle
08-09-2007, 10:30 PM
But so many people interpret the bible differently. How do you reconcile that?

Same bible different perspectives.

janelle
08-10-2007, 11:21 AM
Why are so many people giving backsliders so much power? I don't go to church for people to see me or not go because people have disappointed me. I go to worship God and have a relationship with Him. To hear the sermon and worship with others. Surely there are others going there that are good people.

Do you chose a school in the same way? You will only go if everybody teaching there is a good person without any sins. If any teacher falls into sin you will leave and not go back.

You are giving others way too much power to decide what you will do in your life. Just because a person has fallen into sin does not prove the church is bad. The person has given into temptation.

Life today is not easy what with all the sexual perversions and garbage out there to deal with. Our parents never had the porn to wade through on the internet that we have. I am not surprised so many give into temptation in todays world but please don't blame it on religion. Religion is our saving grace in such a perverted world. We should be running to it not away from it.

Sassy65
08-10-2007, 12:09 PM
I haven't been to church much but I tried to remember to go to church for myself and my children. To remind us that God and Lord Jesus is there for us no matter what happens. I don't believe there's one in the Bible stating that you have to go to church but God did bless one day to be Holy and we are supposed to keep it Holy. That is on the seventh day. I wouldn't be surprised if some of you would not agree to what I'm about to say. The seventh day which is Holy is on Saturday. I tried to remind myself not to do nothing on that day but at times I do slack it.

And another thing. Jesus did say in the Bible that he hates religion. I remember that but don't remember which verse in the Bible it in.

My belief to why Jesus said that is he's not here to start a religion but is here to save us as sinners so we all can to go heaven and be with Lord Jesus and Heavenly Father. Because he knew that religion is confusing and causes rife as people.

Sassy65

janelle
08-10-2007, 12:26 PM
But Jesus DID start a religion. "upon this Rock (Peter) I will build my church." Jesus was all for religion but not for religious hypocrites. Those who say they are religious but live a non-religious life.

Jesus always went to synagogue when He was on earth. He was a rabbi. And it is a commandant to keep holy the Lord's day so God must think it is important as well. It doesn't matter which day you say is the Lord's day just as long you have one day a week as the Lord's day.

Sassy65
08-10-2007, 12:40 PM
You may be right. I will have to look it up and find it in the Bible.

Anyway, it's not up to me to pick a day to worship the Lord. It just that God blessed the seventh day to be HOLY which happens to be Saturday and I don't think Jesus moved the day back or forward. So I just whenever I can go to Church I just go on Sunday which is a Christian Church. I don't go to Hebrew's Church. I wouldn't understand them anyway. I was raised Hebrew, but I'm half jew and half christian.

I'm not perfect. I just be me and try to follow him my Jesus.

Sassy65

janelle
08-10-2007, 01:34 PM
Seems like you are more Christian than Jewish if you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. I guess you identify more with Christians.

Vulcan70
08-10-2007, 08:44 PM
Well said, Adra. I am new here and was just reading some of the posts. I am a Christian and I do go to church. I believe that the Bible IS God's word and I follow it as close as I can. You who say you are spiritual and not religious, good for you. That is your choice and you do have that freedom. I would hope that Christians would follow the example of Christ and teach those who want to hear, with love and not anger. (not saying anyone is angry here but just in case) We are to share the good news. Do that with love. I also agree with MsLynn when she stated, "It annoys these people i work with when they want to call me a heathen and then try to quote the bible to me, and I can correct them on the verse or tell them, maybe they should go read all of that chapter, not just that one verse, they might find it doesn't mean quite what they think it does." That is the reason there are so many denominations today. In the 1st century noone asked which church you belong to, they just asked if you were a Christian, because there was only one church. Division sprang from not reading the entire thought contained in the scriptures. Not trying to be preachy just sharing thoughts.

janelle
08-10-2007, 09:30 PM
Of course you can worship God at home or anywhere but if you do not go to church you cannot receive the gift of the sacraments. I'm not going to give that up. No way.