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Jolie Rouge
06-08-2007, 09:16 PM
Americans believe in both evolution, creationism: poll
Fri Jun 8, 2:22 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Asked their views on whether human life is a result of God's creation or a product of evolution, one quarter of Americans chose both conflicting theories, a poll suggested Friday. "All told, 25 percent say that both creationism and evolution are definitely or probably true," USA Today said.

Overall, more Americans expressed a strong belief in creationism, or the theory that God created humans in their present form at a single period in time within the last 10,000 years.

A full 66 percent said they believed in creationism, with 39 percent of those polled saying it was definitely true and 27 percent believing it was probably true.

But 53 percent said they believed in evolution, the scientific theory that humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. Eighteen percent said evolution was definitely true, while 35 percent said it was probably true.

The results were released in a USA Today/Gallup poll of 1,007 adults, taken between June 1-3. The margin of error was three percent.

The polarizing issue of how life came to be has worked its way into US classrooms in recent years. Some states have enacted legislation that says teachers must include critical analysis of Charles Darwin's evolutionary theory.

More recently, the question divided Republican presidential candidates who traditionally represent the Christian conservative elements of US society, with three answering in last month's debate that they do not believe in evolution.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070608/ts_alt_afp/usevolutionreligion;_ylt=Al8tyh0HYs.QqWUP8bJlNQus0 NUE

stresseater
06-09-2007, 06:58 PM
To elaborate on my answer a bit. I believe God created us all. I also believe there are some adaptations that have occurred since that time. I do NOT believe we came from a lesser animal to become human, God made us human. That make any sense? :star: :burnout:

dv8grl
06-09-2007, 08:11 PM
to me it makes more sense

Alien seeding of our planet

DtroitPunk
06-10-2007, 11:05 PM
I think that this has been a problem for a long time, that some believe naturalistic causes are sufficient to explain all and some are unwillingto conced that evolution occurs at all. The simple truth is this evolution has occured and can be proven on a micro scale, but has never and can never work on a macro scale. Minor variations are quite possible due to biological need but evolution has never CREATED anything. More and more Scientists are starting to agree that at least the ORIGINS of life cant be explained through naturalistic causes.

BeanieLuvR
08-17-2007, 09:04 PM
To elaborate on my answer a bit. I believe God created us all. I also believe there are some adaptations that have occurred since that time. I do NOT believe we came from a lesser animal to become human, God made us human. That make any sense? :star: :burnout:

It makes a lot of sense.

Char
08-17-2007, 09:30 PM
I believe everything had to be created, originally.

Someone once put it to me this way, and, it made total sense to me:

To believe in evolution, you have to believe everything 'just happened' to fall into place and made 'thngs', such as people, planets etc... now, imagine this... take a rather simple item by today's standards, such as a TV - take it apart, piece by piece, now break it down further, molecule by molecule... now, take all those pieces, put them all in a box... now start shaking that box, over and over, year after year, decade after decade... are those pieces ever going to just 'fall into place' and make a TV ? ... no way, they needed a 'creator' to make that TV.

renaissanceman
08-17-2007, 11:33 PM
I believe everything had to be created, originally.

Someone once put it to me this way, and, it made total sense to me:

To believe in evolution, you have to believe everything 'just happened' to fall into place and made 'thngs', such as people, planets etc... now, imagine this... take a rather simple item by today's standards, such as a TV - take it apart, piece by piece, now break it down further, molecule by molecule... now, take all those pieces, put them all in a box... now start shaking that box, over and over, year after year, decade after decade... are those pieces ever going to just 'fall into place' and make a TV ? ... no way, they needed a 'creator' to make that TV.

You are so right but unfortunately the Methodological Naturalist wont allow common sense in any discussions pertaining to the origins of life.

THEY know that ANY reasonable rational person will come to the ONLY logical conclusion.

An entire universe that displays evidence of complexity and design most probably WAS designed.

tngirl
08-25-2007, 04:03 PM
Imagine, sceintists study our universe every day. The more they look and study the more they show that if just one thing in our universe was out of whack we would not be able to exist. So, in my humble opinion, that just proves that the universe is the way it is, with everything in its place in order for us to exist. Coincedence? I think not.

renaissanceman
08-25-2007, 08:17 PM
YUP! I think that all people should be bold enough to challenge their own beliefs.

SEE if what you think or believe seems logical in the light of the evidence.

I tell folks OVER and OVER to read The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel and DDarwin On Trial by Phillip E Johnson. I suspect that many people dont even want to ENTERTAIN any possibility that they are wrong.

Here is a book that sounds GREAT that I havent got to read yet, but its on my list!

I Dont HAve Enough FAITH To Be an Atheist

http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Enough-Faith-Atheist/dp/1581345615/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-7747263-7487839?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188098009&sr=8-1

Bahet
08-25-2007, 11:18 PM
I posted arguments against those books over on my site in the Creationism thread RM. You didn't respond.

I do believe in a God. I do think God created the universe and all life in it even if it was just orchestrating the big bang and throwing out some protozoa. I don't believe there was a garden of Eden, that the world is 6000 years old, that people lived with dinosaurs, or any of that stuff. I believe in evolution.

renaissanceman
08-26-2007, 01:28 AM
I posted arguments against those books over on my site in the Creationism thread RM. You didn't respond.

I do believe in a God. I do think God created the universe and all life in it even if it was just orchestrating the big bang and throwing out some protozoa. I don't believe there was a garden of Eden, that the world is 6000 years old, that people lived with dinosaurs, or any of that stuff. I believe in evolution.

TRIST me if I had read your "arguments" I would have responded. I NEVER back down in debates. if I actually COULDNT respond I would admit it.

To answer THIS post. A God that creates the beginnig of time and then leaves everything else to chance is for all intents and purposes the same as NO God at all. He OBVIOUSLY cant care for us or have standards for our lives if he never intended us to be here now can he?

This is a very CONVENIENT worldview. It allows you to live however you choose.

Whether I believe that the world is actually LESS than 10,000 years old is really NOT the issue.

I also believe in evolution as it pertains to variation WITHIN a species, BUT I do NOT believe in Evolution as a explanatory force for the Origins of life.

ANYONE who does is either willfully self-deluded, or a LIAR. EVOLUTION can not Create. NEVER has NEVER will.


I believe as Phillip E Johnson does that we should move biblical reasoning on the ORIGINS of life away from Genesis to John 1:1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


The word or the LOGOS is at the core of EVERYTHING. When we find UNBELIEVABLE complexity at the SMALLEST of levels, such as in DNA we should be SURPRISED if we believe in any form of Darwinism.


It makes PERFECT sense to a logical, rational being who believes they were CREATED by a logical, rational being.

freeby4me
08-26-2007, 05:43 AM
"ANYONE who does is either willfully self-deluded, or a LIAR."

Thats always pleasant to wake up to. :headshake

Bahet
08-26-2007, 06:22 PM
I like that you don't back down Punk. It makes for interesting debates. I bumped a thread in politics on my board that you might not have seen. I responded to some of the links you posted about the founding fathers 2 weeks ago. I'd be interested to continue that debate as well.


I also believe in evolution as it pertains to variation WITHIN a species, BUT I do NOT believe in Evolution as a explanatory force for the Origins of life.

ANYONE who does is either willfully self-deluded, or a LIAR. EVOLUTION can not Create. NEVER has NEVER will.

Now, now, no need to get hostile. I don't think anyone who honestly believes something is "willfully self deluded" or a liar. They just don't know the facts yet. If someone is born and raised in the jungles of the Amazon and grow up to believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth are they willfully self deluded? Or are they liars? I don't think they are either. Based on their observations they believe the sun moves around the Earth. We could go to them and tell them that the Earth is not only spinning a full circle once a day but is also spinning in an even bigger circle around the sun once a year. The fact that they would likely not believe me also doesn't make them self deluded or liars.

You believe the facts are in a story book written thousands of years ago by a few specific men with their own agendas. I believe the facts are being discovered all the time and our knowledge of the real truth is something we won't get from a storybook but from studying and learning and striving to gain knowledge.

I do believe in a God of sorts creating the origins of the universe. That doesn't mean I believe in the Christian God.

A God that creates the beginnig of time and then leaves everything else to chance is for all intents and purposes the same as NO God at all. He OBVIOUSLY cant care for us or have standards for our lives if he never intended us to be here now can he?

I can't answer this as not only do I not know what God is like but God as I do know him is not the Christian God as you define Him. I could tell you and explain in great detail, including links, why God is a flying spaghetti monster. It's not something you would even consider though so arguing the point is moot.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

So God made the abortion pill and prostitutes and meth nd serial killers? He made people He knew were never going to believe in Him knowing He would send them to hell for not believing? He made polio and infant mortality and wars and heart disease? Either God is a sadist, he screwed up royally, or he put us here and left us to flounder.

Jolie Rouge
08-26-2007, 08:31 PM
So God made the abortion pill and prostitutes and meth nd serial killers? He made people He knew were never going to believe in Him knowing He would send them to hell for not believing? He made polio and infant mortality and wars and heart disease? Either God is a sadist, he screwed up royally, or he put us here and left us to flounder.

No - God gave us Free Will - free to choose good or evil rather than be little toys and puppets for his amusements. MAN created the abortion pill and prostitutes and meth and serial killers ... by our own choices.

Bahet
08-26-2007, 10:36 PM
So he put us here and left us to flounder then. Ok.

freeby4me
08-27-2007, 04:17 AM
So he put us here and left us to flounder then. Ok.

Thats what I would think and say but according to those who believe, he left us here to have faith in him to "save" us from the bad.....thats why all those believers die of cancer and being robbed, because he stops them (or something of the sort, KWIM)

Jolie Rouge
08-27-2007, 08:25 PM
So he put us here and left us to flounder then. Ok.

You have a choice of how you handle things. You can chose to "flounder" or not. You can not change how another person behaves. You can only change your self. THAT is the power of choice and the gift of free will.

Bahet
08-27-2007, 10:02 PM
Exactly. I don't flounder. And I don't need any organized religion to succeed in life either. Some say that God is our father and loves all of us. But no father I'd want to be a child of would damn half his kids to hell for eternity simply because they were brought up by a step parent. No father I'd want in my life would damn good kids to hell while embracing truly evil ones who "found God" at the last moment. No father I'd want to be my parent would give us a gift (free will) then damn usif we use it in a way he doesn't like. Nah, I'll take my free will and stay away from that sort of dysfunctional family.

ahippiechic
08-28-2007, 06:16 AM
Exactly. I don't flounder. And I don't need any organized religion to succeed in life either. Some say that God is our father and loves all of us. But no father I'd want to be a child of would damn half his kids to hell for eternity simply because they were brought up by a step parent. No father I'd want in my life would damn good kids to hell while embracing truly evil ones who "found God" at the last moment. No father I'd want to be my parent would give us a gift (free will) then damn usif we use it in a way he doesn't like. Nah, I'll take my free will and stay away from that sort of dysfunctional family.

My ex says this same thing.

Jolie Rouge
08-28-2007, 07:11 AM
Exactly. I don't flounder. And I don't need any organized religion to succeed in life either. Some say that God is our father and loves all of us. But no father I'd want to be a child of would damn half his kids to hell for eternity simply because they were brought up by a step parent. No father I'd want in my life would damn good kids to hell while embracing truly evil ones who "found God" at the last moment. No father I'd want to be my parent would give us a gift (free will) then damn us if we use it in a way he doesn't like.

Actually I agree with you there. It is MAN telling others that if you don't kneel HERE, pray THIS way that you are damned.

The scriptures that will be quoted to support that were also writen by MAN so I will refute them in advance.



Nah, I'll take my free will and stay away from that sort of dysfunctional family.

You and your free will are welcome in my family any time. ;)

renaissanceman
08-28-2007, 08:02 AM
Bahet, has it occurred to you how insulting it is to call the Holy Bible a "Story Book"?

The book of Mormon, IS a storybook and has been proven wrong historically and archaeologically.

The Holy Bible has actually been supported and proven in NUMEROUS ways. No Other so called Holy book can this be said of.

You can say that you dont believe it, but the truth is that it is the ONLY book of its kind that has ANY verifiable truth.

When you act like it is a storybook you make it look like I am an unresonable and or ignorant person.

I am sure that you will act like that is NOT what you meant, but how else am I to take it.

If you think I take a book written by man and full of stories as the ONLY source of truth I must be a complete rube, right.

ahippiechic
08-28-2007, 08:35 AM
Bahet, has it occurred to you how insulting it is to call the Holy Bible a "Story Book"?

The book of Mormon, IS a storybook and has been proven wrong historically and archaeologically.


Has it occured to you how many Mormans are insulted by your calling their bible a storybook??

Seems like it's fine for you to do the same things you call others on.

And I belive in God, but wasn't insulted by Bahet calling the bible a storybook. That's her opinion and she's entitled to have one and to voice it here.

freeby4me
08-28-2007, 09:09 AM
Has it occored to you how many Mormans are insulted by your calling their bible a storybook??

Seems like it's fine for you to do the same things you call others on.

And I belive in God, but wasn't insulted by Bahet calling the bible a storybook. That's her opinion and she's entitled to have one and to voice it here.

He's proven a thousand times that he dont give a shit about anyone or anything except himself and "HIS" beliefs so im not the least bit surprised by his statement.

renaissanceman
08-28-2007, 12:07 PM
He's proven a thousand times that he dont give a shit about anyone or anything except himself and "HIS" beliefs so im not the least bit surprised by his statement.

OK, you and I have been through this before! First I have ahippiechick on ignore, so I couldnt answer her post.

To your post. I respect EVERYONES right to believe whatever they want. I will NOT pretend that the book of Mormon is just as valid as the King James Bible though. I already said and it can be PROVEN by anyone who wants to know that the Book OF Mormon is FULL of errors.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp

Above is a catholic site that talks about troubles with the Book Of Mormon.


The Bible on the other hand has been proven reliable and believable by History. Archaeologists KNOW that the bible is a surprisingly trustworthy historical document that exists today much as it did when written.

just one site with supporting info.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t003.html


You can say that I am doing the same thing I complain of, but that is not the truth.

My bible has NEVER been PROVEN to be factually or historically wrong, the book of Mormon HAS.

To claim that they are books of equal standing only because they are both religious books is missing the point just a bit.

To get back to the point, on what exactly do you base your claim that I dont give a SHIT about anyone elses beliefs?

YOU are the one that has said horrible things to me in the past because I am religious. I thought that we had moved past that, but I guess you just cant forgive me for actually believing in a God who actually cares.

Although, I dont think your problem is with me. I belive that the idea that you MIGHT be wrong and that I might be right and that God might expect something from you scares the heck out of you.

freeby4me
08-28-2007, 04:31 PM
My response was not to you, take Hippie off of ignore, answer her statements and then I'll address your post.

Bahet
08-28-2007, 09:41 PM
Using a Christian site to "prove" the Bible is factual is not a legitimate source. I'm sure I could find Mormon sites that have all sorts of "proof" that their book is right and factual. Ditto Jews and Muslims and every other religion with a holy book.

The Bible is full of inaccuracies. According to some who read it the Earth is 6000 years old and our ancestors hunted dinosaurs. You have problems with evolution being factual because the missing link hasn't been found. Has the garden of Eden been found?

I am not trying to insult anyone when I call the Bible a storybook but to me that's exactly what it is. It's a book of stories written by men with their own agendas who submitted their transcripts before the publishing deadline and had their stories approved by the publishers and editors who were again, men.

Jenvy
08-31-2007, 02:35 PM
Wow, I don't like to see people get so heated over religion. Anger and insult-slinging is no way to get someone to consider your point of view. As a Christian, it is one's duty to spread the Good News so that no man dies without hearing it. However, we are to plant a seed in love, not confrontation. When someone starts to get angry it may be time to back off and trust the Holy Spirit to do the watering.

ahippiechic
08-31-2007, 02:58 PM
Wow, I don't like to see people get so heated over religion. Anger and insult-slinging is no way to get someone to consider your point of view. As a Christian, it is one's duty to spread the Good News so that no man dies without hearing it. However, we are to plant a seed in love, not confrontation. When someone starts to get angry it may be time to back off and trust the Holy Spirit to do the watering.

I wish everyone thought like that.

ladybugva
09-01-2007, 08:21 PM
Wow, I don't like to see people get so heated over religion. Anger and insult-slinging is no way to get someone to consider your point of view. As a Christian, it is one's duty to spread the Good News so that no man dies without hearing it. However, we are to plant a seed in love, not confrontation. When someone starts to get angry it may be time to back off and trust the Holy Spirit to do the watering.

Well stated. Unfortunately people on both sides of a debate (religous, political or other) get so heated in their arguments they are so busy trying to give an answer no one is willing to listen to the other person in the end.