32 dead at Virginia Tech....

[wyozozo]

http://www.foxnews.com/index.html

At least 32 people shot and killed on campus of Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, Va.; police say gunman dead; at least 21 reported wounded |

[Specialk]

Yeah, Dh and I are watching it unfold on CNN right now, totally unbelievable!!! I mean, what could possibly set someone off to do that sh*t to that level of crime????

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Yeah, Dh and I are watching it unfold on CNN right now, totally unbelievable!!! I mean, what could possibly set someone off to do that sh*t to that level of crime????

The way people in this world are now a days , nothing could very well be the answer. Nothing as in nothing set them off, they just did it to do and wanted to go out in their own 15 minutes of fame. Some people are just wacked.

This is sad and scary.

[Shann]

how sad. :( I feel for all the families that will be affected by this. what a complete tragedy. I will never understand what goes through someone's mind before they do such a horrific act and selfishly takes the lives of others.

[dlwt]

I think People get desperate, dont know what to do then do something really crazy. I mean hasnt there been a time in your life that some of your thoughts were way outta there about a situation but then you think no thats stupid or whatever. These people dont have the right thought process to think it out all the way and say no thats stupid.

I will pray for the families, how sad

[Kyla Kym]

They just said on CNN that it was a lone Asian gunman that did the killing. :(

[YankeeMary]

Whats so tragic is that shootings like this continue to happen, when does it ever stop?
I also heard it was a lone Asian shooter.
It amazes me that he was able to shoot up 2 different places 2 hours apart, where was the police??? This is soooo tragic. My heart goes out to the parents and to their fellow students.

[PrincessArky]

Whats so tragic is that shootings like this continue to happen, when does it ever stop?
I also heard it was a lone Asian shooter.
It amazes me that he was able to shoot up 2 different places 2 hours apart, where was the police??? This is soooo tragic. My heart goes out to the parents and to their fellow students.

thats what I was wondering but I think it must have been a large place and once the guy shot one place took off to another before the cops could arrive. Such a terrible thing :(

[YankeeMary]

thats what I was wondering but I think it must have been a large place and once the guy shot one place took off to another before the cops could arrive. Such a terrible thing :(

Actually, I am watching CNN and they (a cop and the president) stated they thought it was an isolated domestic shooting and felt the shooter had left campus and possibly heading out of state??? Yet he goes across campus and kills 30 more people???? He killed 2 in the first building.

[taylyn]

What a Tragedy!:(

Am I right? LAte This Morning - I saw on my MSN home Page - "1 dead at Virginia tech shooting"
I didnt even read the Story - I was in a Hurry ...

Then I come home and On my MSN home Page it says At least 31 Dead in shooting at virginia tech:eek: :eek:

So he killed one earlier, then hours later killed Lots more??:confused: :(

[andreame70]

None of this makes any sense, but what makes it even worse is the fact that the faculty sent an email to the students warning them about the shooter being on campus, instead of announcing it on the PA system! How freaking stupid was that?!?

God bless the family members of those killed and injured.

Andrea

[B4Kels]

I am about 1 hour away from the campus. I also know some students that were on the campus. My bosses son goes there and he got out in the nick of time. A family member our ours goes there also and he was not at school today due to an accident that happened several months ago, but he would have been in that same class were all the shootings took place. The first shooting happened 2 hours before the second shooting. They are blaming this on the authorities because they never locked down after the first. The 911 call stated that there was a student who was injured and had fell out of her bed. The rumors (not sure if this true), but they state that he had shot his girlfriend who was cheating on him and then just went balistic. I pray for all of the families and hope that they get through this. We all need to keep them in our thoughts and prayers. It just scares the h**l out me that it was this close to home.

[iluvmybaby]

:rolleyes: This is so sad:rolleyes:

[tsquared]

Such a sad thing.....but what is even more sad to me is the ones who sit back and blame others when they dont know the whole story.........media can be lopsided at times.......... and i think if the media would step back and not give these people the notoriety then these people might think twice about doing their malicious act

[Njean31]

Such a sad thing.....but what is even more sad to me is the ones who sit back and blame others when they dont know the whole story.........media can be lopsided at times.......... and i think if the media would step back and not give these people the notoriety then these people might think twice about doing their malicious act


i agree. the media get's on my nerves so bad. they are so freakin pushy:mad:

[Donnagg123]

:mad: What's even more crap is the fact that the university sent E-MAILS to notify persons on the campus that there was a shooting after the first one. They should have called each building and cleared them and sent persons home or told them to clear out. Maybe if they would have done something ,more than e-mails people could have possibly been saved :mad:

[swan0002]

I'm sure there will be many.... "Wish we did something differently" and "How could we have prevented this"? The sad fact is that we probably will never know exactly what makes some ppl so messed up. I won't even try to analyze it, instead I will send my thoughts and prayers to all.

[Anthill]

I am not defending the school because I do feel that they are partly to blame for this. BUT I did read in yahoo article that after emailing they did call the room advisors and sent people over to the dorms and knocked on doors to tell people to stay in side and away from the windows etc. I just feel so bad for the families, students and teachers.

[nightrider127]

I heard on the radio while ago that 2 more have died bringing the total to 35.

[LuvBigRip]

-- The gunman in Monday's Virginia Tech campus shootings has been identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a student and native of South Korea, campus police chief Wendell Flinchum said.

Watch the latest video now on CNN.com. Access at http://CNN.com. CNN - The most trusted name in news.

[dv8grl]

...and this is why BULLETS should cost more than a few bucks! If Bullets were $25 a piece, I doubt this man would have done what he did.

[LuvBigRip]

Va. Tech Gunman Writings Raised Concerns

Apr 17, 1:16 PM (ET)

By ADAM GELLER


BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was identified Tuesday as an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.

News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids,""debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old senior, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.

Police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set him off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.

"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.

The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.

ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.

The rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart - first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died after being locked inside, Virginia State Police said. Cho committed suicide; two guns were found in the classroom building.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But ballistics tests show one gun was used in both, Virginia State Police said.

And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on both guns. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that the link was not yet definitive. "There's no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we're exploring the possibility," he said.

Officials said Cho graduated from a public high school in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.

Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.

South Korea expressed its condolences, and said it hoped that the tragedy would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."

"We are in shock beyond description," said Cho Byung-se, a Foreign Ministry official handling North American affairs.

A memorial service was planned for the victims Tuesday afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend. Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the gathering.

Classes were canceled for the rest of the week.

Many students were leaving town quickly, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.

Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, left Newman Hall and headed for her car with tears streaming down her red cheeks.

"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around.'"

Although she wanted to be with friends, she wanted her family more. "I just don't want to be on campus," she said.

The first deadly attack was at the dormitory around 7:15 a.m., but some students said they didn't get their first warning about a danger on campus until two hours later, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m., around the time the second attack began.

Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they walked into Norris Hall for a German class where the gunman later opened fire.

The victims in Norris Hall were found in four classrooms and a stairwell, Flaherty said. Cho was found dead in one of those classrooms, he said.

Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target - just taking out anybody he could."

After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in - though he later tried.

"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open ... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.

Virginia Tech President Charles Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack. He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors to warn them.

"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.

Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.

Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.

[pepperpot]

Do you think all the press/coverage of incidences like these (and similar) often encourages those who are already unstable to do something similar? For attention and/or notoriety?

If so, should these things not be in the 'media'? Sort of a "catch 22".:(

[dlwt]

re: the press Yes but WE want answers and we want them now. Thats why the press is so pushy the first to goal (answers) the first to get them live on the web or on tv or wherever wins the prize. So sad

[TxGreek]

...and this is why BULLETS should cost more than a few bucks! If Bullets were $25 a piece, I doubt this man would have done what he did.

This guy spent over $500 on guns. The price of bullets is not a deterrent. If someone wants to kill one person or multiple people, they'll find a way.

[dv8grl]

This guy spent over $500 on guns. The price of bullets is not a deterrent. If someone wants to kill one person or multiple people, they'll find a way.


perhaps in this case, this may be true, but in other quick to shoot, drive-by senseless murders & the like, i think the price of bullets may be a factor. If a bullet cost $50 do you think that a drive by shooting where 50 or so bullets are discharged would happen?

Our 2nd ammendment allows us the right to bear arms, it says nothing about ammunition.

[TxGreek]

perhaps in this case, this may be true, but in other quick to shoot, drive-by senseless murders & the like, i think the price of bullets may be a factor. If a bullet cost $50 do you think that a drive by shooting where 50 or so bullets are discharged would happen?

Absolutely, I think it would still happen.

Realize that in drive by shootings, the people are probably not law abiding citizens with clean records. Most have stolen their guns and bullets and aren't affected by the price of either.

[TxGreek]

Our 2nd ammendment allows us the right to bear arms, it says nothing about ammunition.

Also, isn't that implied?

It's kind of like telling someone they have a license to drive a car, but can't put gas in it.

[LuvBigRip]

Because the people who commit these crimes are such upstanding citizens, you don't think they would steal bullets in order to get them? All a high priced bullet would do would be to drive another type of crime.


Wanna read some disturbing stuff? Ramblings by the killer in Virginia

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

[Jolie Rouge]

Andrew's Dad, noting a recent editorial from Va. Tech's university relations vice president arguing against allowing students to carry in self-defense on campus, blogs: http://andrews-dad.blogspot.com/2007...-armed-in.html


Reader Kevin e-mails: "Imagine if sensible CCW laws allowed people to defend themselves, this tragedy could have been avoided." He points to this story from last January:

Monday, April 16, 2007
Unarmed and vulnerable
From a Virginia Tech Blog, August 31, 2006
Bradford B. Wiles
Wiles, of New Castle, is a graduate student at Virginia Tech.

On Aug. 21 at about 9:20 a.m., my graduate-level class was evacuated from the Squires Student Center. We were interrupted in class and not informed of anything other than the following words: "You need to get out of the building."

Upon exiting the classroom, we were met at the doors leading outside by two armor-clad policemen with fully automatic weapons, plus their side arms. Once outside, there were several more officers with either fully automatic rifles and pump shotguns, and policemen running down the street, pistols drawn.

It was at this time that I realized that I had no viable means of protecting myself.

Please realize that I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun in the commonwealth of Virginia, and do so on a regular basis. However, because I am a Virginia Tech student, I am prohibited from carrying at school because of Virginia Tech's student policy, which makes possession of a handgun an expellable offense, but not a prosecutable crime.

I had entrusted my safety, and the safety of others to the police. In light of this, there are a few things I wish to point out.

First, I never want to have my safety fully in the hands of anyone else, including the police.

Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.

Third, and most important, I am trained and able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere in Virginia and other states that have reciprocity with Virginia, but cannot carry where I spend more time than anywhere else because, somehow, I become a threat to others when I cross from the town of Blacksburg onto Virginia Tech's campus.

Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness. That feeling of helplessness has been difficult to reconcile because I knew I would have been safer with a proper means to defend myself.

I would also like to point out that when I mentioned to a professor that I would feel safer with my gun, this is what she said to me, "I would feel safer if you had your gun."

The policy that forbids students who are legally licensed to carry in Virginia needs to be changed. I am qualified and capable of carrying a concealed handgun and urge you to work with me to allow my most basic right of self-defense, and eliminate my entrusting my safety and the safety of my classmates to the government.

This incident makes it clear that it is time that Virginia Tech and the commonwealth of Virginia let me take responsibility for my safety.

http://andrews-dad.blogspot.com/2007...-virginia.html

From the comments page :


Some people who were there during the University of Texas shootings in 1966 believe that the murder count was not higher because students ran back to their frat houses to get their deer rifles and shot back at Whitman. In fact most of the murders happened in the first ten or fifteen minutes of the attack. Whitman had to hide from incoming rounds once Texas boys returned fire, therefore he could only shoot through the drainage pipes, limiting his targets.

Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens. Those gun laws kept these poor victims at Virginia Tech from defending themselves.

[TxGreek]

From the comments page:
Gun laws only affect law abiding citizens.

I agree completely!!

[Jolie Rouge]

I notice that the shooter was living in the dorms--and thus his possession of the handguns violated the Virginia Tech rules about having guns on campus. Pretty clearly, this didn't stop him from doing so.

This is one of those relatively rare cases where there seems to be no change to the law that could have prevented this except a complete ban on handgun ownership--and that is simply not possible. Eliminating the "no guns" rule of Virginia Tech might have made a difference, but I would not hold out a high probability for this.

There are no perfect solutions. Yes, as I mentioned earlier today, Virginia Tech's ban on concealed license holders being armed on campus meant that there was no chance that any of the killer's victims could shoot back. What would happen if such a law had not been in place? Most of the students, being under 21, are not eligible for carry permits. But most of the grad students, most of the staff, and pretty much all of the faculty would be eligible.

I know more than a few faculty, either full-time or adjuncts at various colleges around the country who have carry permits. In those states where the laws allows it, some of them carry on campus. Many of the others would do so, at least when teaching night classes.

Would this have prevented this tragedy? It's hard to say. In most states, about 3-5% of the population eventually get a concealed carry permit. A few carry all the time; some carry frequently; a few carry very seldom. I would not say that there was a strong chance that repealing Virginia Tech's rule, and similar ones around the country, would make a big difference. But it would make a big difference to anyone who survived because one victim could fight back!

Texas state rep. Suzanna Gratia-Hupp became a vigorous advocate of concealed carry because she sat in a Luby's, watching a monster murder her father and mother. Suzanna had been carrying a handgun--illegally, because Texas law did not allow it--for some time. When she walked into that Luby's for lunch, she wasn't carrying--too afraid that she might get arrested. She was in a position to shoot and save lives that day--but the law discouraged her.

At Pearl High School, in Mississippi, the assistant principal brought an end to Luke Woodham's murders by retrieving a pistol from his vehicle. Similarly, a student at Appalachian Law School stopped another mass murder by retrieving a gun from his car.

[nightrider127]

...and this is why BULLETS should cost more than a few bucks! If Bullets were $25 a piece, I doubt this man would have done what he did.


It wouldn't have stopped him. He would have found the means to commit this horrific crime one way or the other.

Do you really, really think that $25 bullets is going to stop crime? The only people that is going to affect is you law abiding citizen. A criminal will get what they need, even if they have to go to the black market or break into someones home or business to get it.

[Jolie Rouge]

dv8grl
...and this is why BULLETS should cost more than a few bucks! If Bullets were $25 a piece, I doubt this man would have done what he did.


He was already violating the law by having a gun on campus. If a gun was not available, he could have chained thdoors and set the building on fire.

Someone who is that twisted will find a way.

A reminder: if someone commits mass murder with a weapon other than a gun, the national news media usually ignore it. For example, Hector Escudero started a fire at a casino in Puerto Rico in December 1987 as part of labor union activism, and killed 96 people.

Julio Gonzalez threw $1 worth of gasoline into an illegal night club in New York City in April 1990 to get back at his girlfriend, and killed 87 people.

These stories received almost no national news coverage at the time--while mass murders that were substantially smaller received vastly more coverage.

Why? Gonzalez and Escudero's crimes didn't advance the cause of gun control.


(You can read an interesting paper that was published by the Journal of Mass Media Ethics here for an examination of the role that excessive media coverage played in causing at least one of the mass murders of that era. http://www.claytoncramer.com/JMME2.htm )

We had an incident near here where a student threatened to "Go all Columbine" ... he was reported and they found a number of "interesting things" in his possesion - including copies of articles covering Columbine, Pearl River, and Joesbourough shootings.

[dv8grl]

fine... lets just keep manufacturing guns & bullets and sell them to anyone, because its our right as americans.

i guess then its his right as an american to shoot 30 or so of his peers

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

i have the freedom of speech

he had the right to bear arms

ALL I'M SAYING IS WITH NO BULLETS THERE WOULD BE A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THESE TYPES OF CRIMES ie: Virginia Tech, Columbine, Amish School, etc.. etc...

[moogle]

Sigh...

Yes, and without guns, I would have no way to protect my home, my life,
my animals if anyone breaks in when I'm home. And I really don't like that
idea.

I have handguns. I have a concealed weapons permit, even though I don't
carry one very often. When I was going into work at 4 in the morning, I did
carry it. To get this, I went through finger printing, a complete background
check.

If someone wants to do this type of thing, they are nuts. They will find a
way to get a gun......they are available on the street, for less than what
I can legally buy one for.

They also haven't said whether the 9mm gun, a semi-automatic, was modified
to be fully automatic. This is very easy to do - one piece of the fgun
needs to be machined.....

[Jolie Rouge]

And if the students and faulcuty had been permitted to carry their own handguns - as the law allows - then maybe someone would have been able to defend themselves.

You are clearly a rational person, who would not even concieve of something so horrifying - but we should be allowed to protect ourselves from the ones who are irrational.

When you outlaw guns ( or ammunition ) then only the outlaws will have guns - and the rest of us are vulnerable.

Special Report
A Disarmed Campus
By John Tabin
Published 4/17/2007 12:43:46 AM

In January 2006, Virginia Delegate Todd Gilbert introduced House Bill 1572, which was meant to guarantee, with a few exceptions, that students with concealed handgun permits would be allowed to carry guns on college campuses. The bill died in subcommittee later that month. Like many schools, Virginia Tech had a policy prohibiting guns on campus, and Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker expressed pleasure at the bill's defeat. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions," said Hincker, "because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."

As we all know by now, the gun ban didn't insure safety. Virginia Tech was the site of the worst shooting spree in American history yesterday. Thirty-two people are dead -- not including the shooter, who committed suicide -- and at least fifteen are injured. Mightn't a law-abiding armed student have stopped the spree in its tracks? We'll never know.

Perhaps some school administrators still think that declaring a "gun-free zone" makes a campus safer; that was what legislators thought when they started passing gun bans at high schools in response to the late-'80s youth-crime spike. But it's likely that at the college level, fear of litigation plays a large role in shaping such policies. No school or business has been successfully sued following an on-site incident involving a gun, but according to David Kopel, director of the Second Amendment Project at the Independence Institute, "that doesn't stop administrators from being scared." Kopel notes that big business is afflicted by the same lawsuit-paranoia. "If you look in these corporate counsel manuals...you'll find these things all over the place, saying that you should adopt a no-guns policy so you don't get sued -- when there's really never been a case of a successful suit," says Kopel.

The irony, Kopel points out, is that Virginia Tech may have opened itself up to a lawsuit anyway. Two people were killed several hours before the rest of the victims, and many have complained that the school didn't warn people of the situation before the killing started again. "This interval and failure to warn, after having affirmatively disarmed them...I'm not a Virginia tort expert," says Kopel, "but that strikes me as a good start" for an enterprising litigator. Perhaps the reluctance to release the news flowed from the same central-command instincts that led administrators to disarm their students.

To gun control advocates, the failure of an anti-gun regulation just proves the need for more anti-gun regulations. The Brady Campaign's website had a newly designed "Donate Now" button referencing Virginia Tech almost immediately. It's worth asking, though, if guns aren't that different from information, and if it wouldn't be better to loosen control over both.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=11306

[moogle]

I forgot about this-

Back in the early 80s, Paul Harvey talked about an experiment done in
2 towns. In one, you were required to have a gun in your house. In the
other, guns were banned.

Guess which one had the higher crime rate???

I was at work listening to Paul Harvey at lunch when I heard this.

[YankeeMary]

I do not think stronger gun laws would have changed a thing. We live in Ga. and I think you have to have proper ID and wait 3 days before you can purchase a gun and I believe a background check. My sd purchased a gun a year ago or so, no biggie right? Except the fact that she didn't have a licensed ID, she has a criminal mark on her record and she walked in a purchased the gun without a wait. She went to a pawn shop which legally has to follow these laws (obviously they didn't). To top it all off my sd has a mental illness and was living in assisted living for the mentally ill when she purchased the gun. Thank God nothing happened, she told me she purchased it, I called her resident advisor and they asked her about it, she surrendered the gun immediatley without incident. So the thougher laws meant nothing. Another huge kicker is, is that my SD didn't have any money, so apparently the guy at the pawn shop let her trade a $179.00 ring for the gun and bullets.

[Jolie Rouge]

ALL I'M SAYING IS WITH NO BULLETS THERE WOULD BE A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THESE TYPES OF CRIMES ie: ... Columbine

And what about the 15 or so pipe bombs that the boys set all over their school, the one boys BMW and their homes ... Pipe Bombs are also illegal - didn't stop them. They were underage and should not have had acess to the guns and ammo - they found someone they could pay to secure the "merchandise". Someone truly determined will find a way to get around the law - criminals always do.

[dv8grl]

When you outlaw guns ( or ammunition ) then only the outlaws will have guns - and the rest of us are vulnerable.




Oh, ok, so The United Kingdom & Australia are over-run with crime because they have very strict gun laws?

[tngirl]

fine... lets just keep manufacturing guns & bullets and sell them to anyone, because its our right as americans.

i guess then its his right as an american to shoot 30 or so of his peers

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

i have the freedom of speech

he had the right to bear arms

ALL I'M SAYING IS WITH NO BULLETS THERE WOULD BE A DRASTIC REDUCTION IN THESE TYPES OF CRIMES ie: Virginia Tech, Columbine, Amish School, etc.. etc...

The Second Amendment states: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Now, making it next to impossible to buy bullets for one's gun be an infringement on this right? And as others have stated before me, the majority of people that commit these crimes would just steal the bullets. They aren't worried about being legal. Do locks keep intruders out of your home? Nope, all they do is keep honest people honest.

Here is an interesting thought on the subject:



VA Tech and The Price of Disarmament (http://bluecollarrepublican.com/blog/?p=1225#comments)
Filed under: 2nd Amendment, Dave — Dave Bean at 2:14 pm on Monday, April 16, 2007 Edit This
30 dead, at last count, and not a single “swingin’ Richard” among ‘em returned the maniac’s fire.

Does anyone still believe we’re really safer when we’re unarmed?

One well-placed bullet early on could have saved quite a few lives. One bullet, people.

[moogle]

Here is an interesting thought on the subject:



VA Tech and The Price of Disarmament (http://bluecollarrepublican.com/blog/?p=1225#comments)
Filed under: 2nd Amendment, Dave — Dave Bean at 2:14 pm on Monday, April 16, 2007 Edit This
30 dead, at last count, and not a single “swingin’ Richard” among ‘em returned the maniac’s fire.

Does anyone still believe we’re really safer when we’re unarmed?

One well-placed bullet early on could have saved quite a few lives. One bullet, people.

I was thinking the same thing.

[dv8grl]

Yup! Because bullets solve every problem. It sloved this guys problems.

I'm off to go buy a gun and some bullets now., i just hope that they don't get stolen & used in some horrific crime., but if they do, i shouldn't care BECAUSE I DIDN'T PULL THE TRIGGER.

good-day.

[tngirl]

Maybe we need to outlaw knives while we are at it...oh yeah, and how about cars? And how about fists? Well, I guess they are already outlawed if you look at the laws against assualt, but wait!! Those laws don't keep people from beating the crap out of others.

[tngirl]

I also put the blame for the loss of so many lives on the University's doorstep. They should have had the campus on lockdown until they knew what was going on. Instead they made assumptions that cost so many lives. A couple of weeks ago one of the campuses here went on lockdown and evacuated the campus because a man was seen walking on campus with what was believed to be a gun. Overreaction? Maybe, but isn't it better to take those precautions than to have people dead?

They said they emailed people, what about those that were at class already? Could they not have alerted the media to warn commutting students of the possibility of a shooter on campus? Could they not have cancelled classes?

[moogle]

Yup! Because bullets solve every problem. It sloved this guys problems.

I'm off to go buy a gun and some bullets now., i just hope that they don't get stolen & used in some horrific crime., but if they do, i shouldn't care BECAUSE I DIDN'T PULL THE TRIGGER.

good-day.

You could say the same thing about someone stealing your car and killing someone in an accident.......you weren't driving, so who cares, right?

They never talk about how many guns are out there that are not used in crimes. And you hear very little about ones used legally and saving someones
life - but it happens. It just isn't "newsworthy".

At least he didn't bomb the building - that would have killed more people.

A nut will find a way to do what he wants.

[suprtruckr]

I forgot about this-

Back in the early 80s, Paul Harvey talked about an experiment done in
2 towns. In one, you were required to have a gun in your house. In the
other, guns were banned.

Guess which one had the higher crime rate???

I was at work listening to Paul Harvey at lunch when I heard this.

i remember this, one town is kennesaw ga, HOMEOWNERS are eligible for a concealed carry permit and used to be encouraged to do so

[Jolie Rouge]

They said they emailed people, what about those that were at class already? Could they not have alerted the media to warn commutting students of the possibility of a shooter on campus? Could they not have cancelled classes?

I am sure most of the falculty have cell phones - everyone else does - why not call the ones conducting classes or in their offices to pass the warning instad of e-mails ?

[Njean31]

Andrew's Dad, noting a recent editorial from Va. Tech's university relations vice president arguing against allowing students to carry in self-defense on campus, blogs: http://andrews-dad.blogspot.com/2007...-armed-in.html


Reader Kevin e-mails: "Imagine if sensible CCW laws allowed people to defend themselves, this tragedy could have been avoided." He points to this story from last January:

Monday, April 16, 2007
Unarmed and vulnerable
From a Virginia Tech Blog, August 31, 2006
Bradford B. Wiles
Wiles, of New Castle, is a graduate student at Virginia Tech.

On Aug. 21 at about 9:20 a.m., my graduate-level class was evacuated from the Squires Student Center. We were interrupted in class and not informed of anything other than the following words: "You need to get out of the building."

Upon exiting the classroom, we were met at the doors leading outside by two armor-clad policemen with fully automatic weapons, plus their side arms. Once outside, there were several more officers with either fully automatic rifles and pump shotguns, and policemen running down the street, pistols drawn.

It was at this time that I realized that I had no viable means of protecting myself.

Please realize that I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun in the commonwealth of Virginia, and do so on a regular basis. However, because I am a Virginia Tech student, I am prohibited from carrying at school because of Virginia Tech's student policy, which makes possession of a handgun an expellable offense, but not a prosecutable crime.

I had entrusted my safety, and the safety of others to the police. In light of this, there are a few things I wish to point out.

First, I never want to have my safety fully in the hands of anyone else, including the police.

Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.

Third, and most important, I am trained and able to carry a concealed handgun almost anywhere in Virginia and other states that have reciprocity with Virginia, but cannot carry where I spend more time than anywhere else because, somehow, I become a threat to others when I cross from the town of Blacksburg onto Virginia Tech's campus.

Of all of the emotions and thoughts that were running through my head that morning, the most overwhelming one was of helplessness. That feeling of helplessness has been difficult to reconcile because I knew I would have been safer with a proper means to defend myself.

I would also like to point out that when I mentioned to a professor that I would feel safer with my gun, this is what she said to me, "I would feel safer if you had your gun."

The policy that forbids students who are legally licensed to carry in Virginia needs to be changed. I am qualified and capable of carrying a concealed handgun and urge you to work with me to allow my most basic right of self-defense, and eliminate my entrusting my safety and the safety of my classmates to the government.

This incident makes it clear that it is time that Virginia Tech and the commonwealth of Virginia let me take responsibility for my safety.

http://andrews-dad.blogspot.com/2007...-virginia.html

From the comments page :


i am all for licensed cititzen's being able to have and carry guns...but i still don't think they should not be allowed on a college campus. young people would be settling fights with guns...not to mention the partying going on. i think no way!! but, it would have been good yesterday if just one student had chose to break the rule and had one and shot the perp before he could have killed all those people.

[YankeeMary]

I agree tngirl that the university is partially to blame. They have a pa system and even used it and had a lockdown in Aug. The email to me is a joke, most college aged kids wake in just enough time to jump and run for class, most more then likely wouldn't even check their emails that early.

[Jolie Rouge]

Like clockwork, those lowlifes of the "Westboro Baptist Church" are planning to show up at the funerals of the murdered VTech kids... :mad:

[nightrider127]

Like clockwork, those lowlifes of the "Westboro Baptist Church" are planning to show up at the funerals of the murdered VTech kids... :mad:


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[YankeeMary]

Like clockwork, those lowlifes of the "Westboro Baptist Church" are planning to show up at the funerals of the murdered VTech kids... :mad:

Could you refresh my mind please, I can't quite remember them, but I kinda do. Thanks.

[tngirl]

Could you refresh my mind please, I can't quite remember them, but I kinda do. Thanks.

The crazy church people that have been crashing the funerals of the returning fallen soldiers. The get there with their posters and shouting that the dead are going to hell and they are evil...etc, etc.

[PrincessArky]

tougher guns laws, weaker gun laws, blaming the school, blaming the police NONE of this will ever bring back the poor innocent victims. I agree that somethings in this country should and need to be changed but at this moment in time I believe the victims families would much rather have your thoughts and prayer rather than fighting among yourselves. That's not to say that after all has settled down that they won't be just as pissed about it and looking for someone to blame I just feel more positive thoughts to the families at this time is more comforting to them.


tngirl I know exactly the ppl you are talkin about...those ppl surely should be ashamed of themselves for when and where they show up :( I don't believe that God would ever approve of all the HATE they they spread :(

[pepperpot]

I don't believe guns on campus are a good mix.

Please realize that I am licensed to carry a concealed handgun in the commonwealth of Virginia, and do so on a regular basis. However, because I am a Virginia Tech student, I am prohibited from carrying at school because of Virginia Tech's student policy, which makes possession of a handgun an expellable offense, but not a prosecutable crime.
............
Second, I considered bringing my gun with me to campus, but did not due to the obvious risk of losing my graduate career, which is ridiculous because had I been shot and killed, there would have been no graduate career for me anyway.

If the rules were followed and not 'overlooked' by students and the like who do not agree with them and knowingly allow their fellow students to break them, there would be less of a likelihood of these things happening.

Someone must've known that this guy had a gun on campus and never reported him. Had he been reported, he would've been expelled and not on campus with a gun. Did he have a roommate?

[LuvBigRip]

How would anyone have known this guy had a gun unless he showed them? All reports showed this guy talked to NO-ONE. He made no eye contact, he signed his name as a question mark. One word, non-responsive answers. Even neighbors from when he was a kid are saying he had no friends, talked to no-one. Who would he have told? There were probably only two people who knew this kid had a gun. The gun shop owner and this kid.

This guy did not overlook a rule, he had every intention of killing and maiming as many people as possible. Someone with an intent such as that is hard to stop. Even with the most restrictive gun laws, a person like this would have no problem buying one on the black market. Gun laws do not take guns out of the hands of criminals. They take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens with the right to bear arms.

This guy, from all accounts was going to blow eventually. Short of locking him away before he committed a crime, based only on innuendo and suspicion, nothing could have stopped him. Unless we, as Americans are willing to overlook our civil rights, and allow those hollow people we KNOW will eventually blow to be locked up, this will continue to happen. We will continue to hear reports that "He was a loner" and hear that all signs pointed to this. That individuals were reported for strange and scary behavior. Police were contacted. School counselling was sought. Since we cannot force the police to act without a crime, since civil rights demand that we do not lock up people just because they are sociopaths, this will continue to happen, and lawyers will get rich off of lawsuits seeking to blame why nothing was done.

[pepperpot]

How would anyone have known this guy had a gun unless he showed them? All reports showed this guy talked to NO-ONE. He made no eye contact, he signed his name as a question mark. One word, non-responsive answers. Even neighbors from when he was a kid are saying he had no friends, talked to no-one. Who would he have told? There were probably only two people who knew this kid had a gun. The gun shop owner and this kid.

This guy did not overlook a rule, he had every intention of killing and maiming as many people as possible. Someone with an intent such as that is hard to stop. Even with the most restrictive gun laws, a person like this would have no problem buying one on the black market. Gun laws do not take guns out of the hands of criminals. They take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens with the right to bear arms.

This guy, from all accounts was going to blow eventually. Short of locking him away before he committed a crime, based only on innuendo and suspicion, nothing could have stopped him. Unless we, as Americans are willing to overlook our civil rights, and allow those hollow people we KNOW will eventually blow to be locked up, this will continue to happen. We will continue to hear reports that "He was a loner" and hear that all signs pointed to this. That individuals were reported for strange and scary behavior. Police were contacted. School counselling was sought. Since we cannot force the police to act without a crime, since civil rights demand that we do not lock up people just because they are sociopaths, this will continue to happen, and lawyers will get rich off of lawsuits seeking to blame why nothing was done.

I agree that he wasn't the type to 'show off' his gun or confide in someone, that's why I asked if he did have a roommate. Possibly a roommate would've stumbled upon it or saw it? If he carried it around with him, did someone catch a glimpse of it and said nothing?

I agree that these 'types' with intentions are hard to stop, but we can't make it easy for them neither.

Similar to campus hazings or drinking parties.....the 'kids' know when and where they will take place, some join in....if the rule is, no hazings, etc. , how come it's not reported? We have become too complacent with a 'live and let live', a 'mind my own business', 'look the other way', "I'm no rat", etc. attitude where there are safety concerns/issues for those who are not mature enough to make the proper judgement calls. In no way am I pushing for 'Big Brother', but so many are heartbroken after incidents such as these. We hold College Management responsible and overlook the student's responsibilities to follow the rules (not saying that Management is not responsible but it appears that all the emphasis is placed upon them). Bottom line, we need to start looking after one another more.

Were his parents totally clueless as well? Did they not seek intervention for him along the way?

[loveswolfs]

A friend of mine sent me this today so posting it here...

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j47/loveswolfs/Tags/cid_1DD87444-BC71-4966-8791-6231A7C.gif

[YankeeMary]

I think they should ban the manufacturing of this type of gun, except for military, police agencies, etc. Why in the world would one human need a gun such as this? It is just sickening. I am so sick over the poor poor parents.

tngirl thanks for refreshing my mind, these people are freaks.

[ahippiechic]

The 1st time I bought a gun, I bought it on a corner in Nashville, TN. Transaction took all of 15 min. I was 14. The last time I bought a gun I did it legally and it took almost 6 weeks. (even tho I have 3 legal guns, registared to me already) The gun laws are so tough that it took me 6 weeks to get my gun this last time, but my neighbor, (who is illegal) can go about 2 blocks away and pick one up. Law-abidding citizen have much more trouble getting a gun to protect themselves with than criminals do. SO I don't think tougher laws would keep guns from criminals, the don't follow the laws anyway.

[pepperpot]

The 1st time I bought a gun, I bought it on a corner in Nashville, TN. Transaction took all of 15 min. I was 14. The last time I bought a gun I did it legally and it took almost 6 weeks. (even tho I have 3 legal guns, registared to me already) The gun laws are so tough that it took me 6 weeks to get my gun this last time, but my neighbor, (who is illegal) can go about 2 blocks away and pick one up. Law-abidding citizen have much more trouble getting a gun to protect themselves with than criminals do. SO I don't think tougher laws would keep guns from criminals, the don't follow the laws anyway.

Where/how do they obtain the guns to sell illegally (where did the guy on the corner get the gun to sell it to you)? They can't all come over the border? How do the manufacturers account for them? or do they?

[LuvBigRip]

Va. Gunman Had 2 Previous Stalking Cases
Apr 18, 10:45 AM (ET)

By ADAM GELLER

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - The gunman blamed for the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history had previously been accused of stalking two female students and had been taken to a mental health facility in 2005 after his parents worried he might be suicidal, police said Wednesday.

Cho Seung-Hui had concerned one woman enough with his calls and e-mail in 2005 that police were called in, said Police Chief Wendell Flinchum.

He said the woman declined to press charges and Cho was referred to the university disciplinary system. During one of those incidents, both in late 2005, the department received a call from Cho's parents who were concerned that he might be suicidal, and he was taken to a mental health facility, he said.

Flinchum said he knew of no other police incidents involving Cho until the deadly shootings Monday, first at a girl's dorm room and then a classroom building across campus. Neither of the stalking victims was among the victims Monday.


Thirty-two people were shot to death before the gunman killed himself. State Police have said the same gun was used in both shootings, but they said Wednesday said they still weren't confident that it was the same gunman.

Police searched Cho's door room on Tuesday and recovered, among other items, a chain and combination lock, according to documents filed Wednesday; the front doors of Norris Hall had been chained shut from the inside during the shooting rampage.

Other items seized include a folding knife; two computers, a hard disk and other computer disks; documents, books, notebooks and other writings; a digital camera; CDs; and two Dremel tools.

Cho's roommates and professors on Wednesday described him as a troubled, very quiet young man who rarely spoke to his roommates or made eye contact with them.

His bizarre behavior became even less predictable in recent weeks, roommates Joseph Aust and Karan Grewal said.

Grewal had pulled an all-nighter on homework the day of the shootings and saw Cho at around 5 a.m.

"He didn't look me in the eye. Same old thing. I left him alone," He told CNN. He said when he saw Cho that morning and during the weekend, Cho didn't smile, didn't frown and didn't show any signs of anger. Grewal also said he never saw any weapons.

Several students and professors described Cho as a sullen loner. Authorities said he left a rambling note raging against women and rich kids. News reports said that Cho, a 23-year-old senior majoring in English, may have been taking medication for depression and that he was becoming increasingly erratic.

Professors and classmates were alarmed by his class writings - pages filled with twisted, violence-drenched writing.

"It was not bad poetry. It was intimidating," poet Nikki Giovanni, one of his professors, told CNN Wednesday.

"I know we're talking about a youngster, but troubled youngsters get drunk and jump off buildings," she said. "There was something mean about this boy. It was the meanness - I've taught troubled youngsters and crazy people - it was the meanness that bothered me. It was a really mean streak."

Giovanni said her students were so unnerved by Cho's behavior, including taking pictures of them with his cell phone, that some stopped coming to class and she had security check on her room. She eventually had him taken out of her class, saying she would quit if he wasn't removed.

Lucinda Roy, a co-director of creative writing at Virginia Tech, said she tutored Cho after that.

"He was so distant and so lonely," she told ABC's "Good Morning America" Wednesday. "It was almost like talking to a hole, as though he wasn't there most of the time. He wore sunglasses and his hat very low so it was hard to see his face."

Roy also described using a code word with her assistant to call police if she ever felt threatened by Cho, but she said she never used it.

Cho's writing was so disturbing, though, he was referred to the university's counseling service, said Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department.

In screenplays Cho wrote for a class last fall, characters throw hammers and attack with chainsaws, said a student who attended Virginia Tech last fall. In another, Cho concocted a tale of students who fantasize about stalking and killing a teacher who sexually molested them.

"When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare," former classmate Ian MacFarlane, now an AOL employee, wrote in a blog posted on an AOL Web site.

"The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of."

He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

"We always joked we were just waiting for him to do something, waiting to hear about something he did," said another classmate, Stephanie Derry. "But when I got the call it was Cho who had done this, I started crying, bawling."

Despite the many warning signs that came to light in the bloody aftermath, police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set Cho off.

Cho - who arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., where his parents worked at a dry cleaners - left a note that was found after the bloodbath.

A law enforcement official described it Tuesday as a typed, eight-page rant against rich kids and religion. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

"You caused me to do this," the official quoted the note as saying.

Cho indicated in his letter that the end was near and that there was a deed to be done, the official said. He also expressed disappointment in his own religion, and made several references to Christianity, the official said.

The official said the letter was either found in Cho's dorm room or in his backpack. The backpack was found in the hallway of the classroom building where the shootings happened, and contained several rounds of ammunition, the official said.

With classes canceled for the rest of the week, many students left town.

Tuesday night, thousands of Virginia Tech students, faculty and area residents poured into the center of campus to grieve together. Volunteers passed out thousands of candles in paper cups, donated from around the country. Then, as the flames flickered, speakers urged them to find solace in one another.

As silence spread across the grassy bowl of the drill field, a pair of trumpets began to play taps. A few in the crowd began to sing Amazing Grace.

Afterward, students, some weeping, others holding each other for support, gathered around makeshift memorials, filling banners and plywood boards with messages belying their pain.

"I think this is something that will take a while. It still hasn't hit a lot of people yet," said Amber McGee, a freshman from Wytheville, Va.

Monday's rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart - first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died. Two handguns - a 9 mm and a .22-caliber - were found in the classroom building.

According to court papers, police found a "bomb threat" note - directed at engineering school buildings - near the victims in the classroom building. In the past three weeks, Virginia Tech was hit with two other bomb threats. Investigators have not connected those earlier threats to Cho.

Cho graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.

At least one of those killed in the rampage, Reema Samaha, graduated from Westfield High in 2006. But there was no immediate word from authorities on whether Cho knew the young woman and singled her out.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him.

Some classmates said that on the first day of a British literature class last year, the 30 or so students went around and introduced themselves. When it was Cho's turn, he didn't speak.

On the sign-in sheet where everyone else had written their names, Cho had written a question mark. "Is your name, 'Question mark?'" classmate Julie Poole recalled the professor asking. The young man offered little response.

Cho spent much of that class sitting in the back of the room, wearing a hat and seldom participating. In a small department, Cho distinguished himself for being anonymous. "He didn't reach out to anyone. He never talked," Poole said.

"We just really knew him as the question mark kid," Poole said.

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.

Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell said his shop sold the Glock and a box of practice ammo to Cho 36 days ago for $571.

Gov. Tim Kaine said he will appoint a panel at the university's request to review authorities' handling of the disaster. Parents and students bitterly complained that the university should have locked down the campus immediately after the first burst of gunfire and did not do enough to warn people.

Kaine warned against making snap judgments and said he had "nothing but loathing" for those who take the tragedy and "make it their political hobby horse to ride."

"I'm satisfied that the university did everything they felt they needed to do with the heat on the table," Kaine told CBS'"The Early Show" on Wednesday. "Nobody has this in the playbook, there's no manual on this."

[ahippiechic]

Where/how do they obtain the guns to sell illegally (where did the guy on the corner get the gun to sell it to you)? They can't all come over the border? How do the manufacturers account for them? or do they?

There are so many undocumented guns, it's crazy. Lots of them were bought years ago, before the laws were so strict. A lot of the guns you can buy 'on the corner' are stolen guns too. And no, I don't think the manufacturers keep any kind of inventory of the guns sold. I used to know a guy who brought guns in from Isreal to resell. I still have that .38 I bought at 14, I gave 55.00 for it then, it would go for around 450.00 at a gun show now. That one and my Ruger .44 and Colt .45 are not registered. The Ruger and the Colt are really old, made in the early 1900's. I also a have a 2 Glock 9's (a 17 & a 19) and a little .22 auto, they are all registered. I have a permit to carry concealed, so I usually carry the .22 in my purse in my waistband.

[pepperpot]

There are so many undocumented guns, it's crazy. Lots of them were bought years ago, before the laws were so strict. A lot of the guns you can buy 'on the corner' are stolen guns too. And no, I don't think the manufacturers keep any kind of inventory of the guns sold. I used to know a guy who brought guns in from Isreal to resell. I still have that .38 I bought at 14, I gave 55.00 for it then, it would go for around 450.00 at a gun show now. That one and my Ruger .44 and Colt .45 are not registered. The Ruger and the Colt are really old, made in the early 1900's. I also a have a 2 Glock 9's (a 17 & a 19) and a little .22 auto, they are all registered. I have a permit to carry concealed, so I usually carry the .22 in my purse in my waistband.

So realistically, if they stopped making bullets to fit the guns they manufacture now and make only a 'new' caliber that would only fit the 'new' gun, eventually the bullet supply would run out. And if the 'new' guns were carefully 'monitored' we might have a better control on this.

That however, would not stop anyone from using a sawed off shot gun. (There are far too many hunters to ever 'outlaw' shotguns.)

Either that or just make 'smart guns' that would only work for the person they were registered to (like perhaps a fingerprint recognition) and keep tight reigns on the 'registrars'. I'm sure the technology is there to do that.

[ahippiechic]

But even if they stopped making bullets for the guns we have now, you can always reload your own. We used to do that. I don't think there is just one way to fix the problem. (and I'm not trying to argue with you here) Maybe the 'smart gun' thing would work to help cut down on violence. But if a person is angry enough or crazy enough to hurt people, I think they would find a way to do it. I think we need to try harder to understand and help the people like the VT shooter, BEFORE things like this happens.

[stresseater]

I don't like the fingerprint recognition thing either. A few years ago DH and I were in bed and someone kicked in our front door at 2:00 am. Who has time to do the "do you have my gun or your's " dance in the dark. ;)

[buttrfli]

I have only read about 3 posts in this thread, so excuse me if this was already mentioned....

for those of you who want to know where all these guns are coming from - have you ever been to a gun show? More specifically, a gun show in Oklahoma? With all the laws and rules and whatnot, I can pay $10 to get into a gun show and walk out with a gun... no ID required. All I have to do is give the asking price and its mine.

And yes.... I have actually done it myself. (got my dad a b-day present lol)

I'm not saying that ALL the guns came from gun shows, but just giving you an idea of how easy it is to get them.

Lawmakers can do or say what they want.... guns will always be available to those who wish to pay for them.

[tngirl]

My daughter and her 9m...and yes, she knows how to use it. My cousin taught my kids to shoot back when they were teenagers. His first rule, "if you point the gun at me, I will shoot you." They learned lesson number one rather fast...in other words, don't point a gun at someone unless you mean to use it or get shot yourself.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y233/displacedtngirl/639877007_m-1.jpg

[Jolie Rouge]

Wanted: A culture of self-defense
By Michelle Malkin · April 18, 2007 11:24 AM

http://michellemalkin.com/

There's no polite way or time to say it: American college and universities have become coddle industries. Big Nanny administrators oversee speech codes, segregrated dorms, politically correct academic departments, and designated "safe spaces" to protect students selectively from hurtful (conservative) opinions—while allowing mob rule for approved leftist positions (textbook case: Columbia University's anti-Minuteman Project protesters).

Instead of teaching students to defend their beliefs, American educators shield them from vigorous intellectual debate. Instead of encouraging autonomy, our higher institutions of learning stoke passivity and conflict-avoidance.

And as the erosion of intellectual self-defense goes, so goes the erosion of physical self-defense.

As news was breaking about the carnage at Virginia Tech, a reader e-mailed me a news story from last January. State legislators in Virginia had attempted to pass a bill that would have eased handgun restrictions on college campuses. Opposed by outspoken, anti-gun activists and Virginia Tech administrators, that bill failed.

Is it too early to ask: "What if?" What if that bill had passed? What if just one student in one of those classrooms had been in lawful possession of a concealed weapon for the purpose of self-defense?

If it wasn't too early for Keystone Katie Couric to be jumping all over campus security yesterday for what they woulda/coulda/shoulda done in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, and if it isn't too early for the New York Times editorial board to be publishing its knee-jerk call for more gun control, it darned well isn't too early for me to raise questions about how the unrepentant anti-gun lobbying of college officials may have put students at risk.

The back story: Virginia Tech had punished a student for bringing a handgun to class last spring—despite the fact that the student had a valid concealed handgun permit. The bill would have barred public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun." After the proposal died in subcommittee, the school's governing board reiterated its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus buildings.

Late last summer, a shooting near campus prompted students to clamor again for loosening campus rules against armed self-defense. Virginia Tech officials turned up their noses. In response to student Bradford Wiles's campus newspaper op-ed piece in support of concealed carry on campus, Virginia Tech associate vice president Larry Hincker scoffed:

"t is absolutely mind-boggling to see the opinions of Bradford Wiles…The editors of this page must have printed this commentary if for no other reason than malicious compliance. Surely, they scratched their heads saying, 'I can't believe he really wants to say that.' Wiles tells us that he didn't feel safe with the hundreds of highly trained officers armed with high powered rifles encircling the building and protecting him. He even implies that he needed his sidearm to protect himself."

The nerve!

Hincker continued: "The writer would have us believe that a university campus, with tens of thousands of young people, is safer with everyone packing heat. Imagine the continual fear of students in that scenario. We've seen that fear here, and we don't want to see it again…Guns don't belong in classrooms. They never will. Virginia Tech has a very sound policy preventing same."

Who's scratching his head now, Mr. Hincker?

Some high-handed commentators insist it's premature or unseemly to examine the impact of school rules discouraging students from carrying arms on campus. Pundit Andrew Sullivan complained that it was "creepy" to highlight reader e-mails calling attention to the Virginia Tech's restrictions on student self-defense—even as the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence rushed to capitalize on the massacre to sign up new members and gather e-mail addresses for Million Mom March chapters. "We are outraged by the increase in gun violence in America, especially the recent shooting at Virginia Tech," reads the online petition. "Add your name to the growing list of people who are saying 'Enough Is Enough!'"

Enough is enough, indeed. Enough of intellectual disarmament. Enough of physical disarmament. You want a safer campus? It begins with renewing a culture of self-defense—mind, spirit, and body. It begins with two words: [i]Fight back.

[buttrfli]

My daughter and her 9m...and yes, she knows how to use it. My cousin taught my kids to shoot back when they were teenagers. His first rule, "if you point the gun at me, I will shoot you." They learned lesson number one rather fast...in other words, don't point a gun at someone unless you mean to use it or get shot yourself.



I grew up in a house with guns. I was never curious because my parents taught me how to shoot and how to respect guns.

They also said much of the same thing.... don't point it at anyone unless you intend on shooting them. If you ever need to shoot someone, be sure you kill them.

I have never had to shoot someone, but I will if I have to.

[pepperpot]

But even if they stopped making bullets for the guns we have now, you can always reload your own. We used to do that. I don't think there is just one way to fix the problem. (and I'm not trying to argue with you here) Maybe the 'smart gun' thing would work to help cut down on violence. But if a person is angry enough or crazy enough to hurt people, I think they would find a way to do it. I think we need to try harder to understand and help the people like the VT shooter, BEFORE things like this happens.

I also believe that you must address the real issue, the problemed person but the gun thing and it's availability needs to be addressed as well. They are too easy to obtain for the wrong person, especially children. Shorter supply would also mean higher prices, another deterrent.


But if a person is angry enough or crazy enough to hurt people, I think they would find a way to do it.
Agreed, but we don't have to make it easy for them. By making it harder for 'them', how many 'not so crazy/angry' have we derailed? That you'd never know, but I'm sure you'd change a few of their plans.

BTW I didn't think you/we were arguing, I thought we were discussing.;)

[ahippiechic]

BTW I didn't think you/we were arguing, I thought we were discussing.;)

LOL, Some people don't know the difference.

I just think it needs to be a 'multi-fix' if it's going to make a difference.

[Jolie Rouge]

Professor fired over Va. Tech discussion
Mon Apr 23, 8:28 AM ET

BOSTON - An adjunct professor was fired after leading a classroom discussion about the Virginia Tech shootings in which he pointed a marker at some students and said "pow."

The five-minute demonstration at Emmanuel College on Wednesday, two days after a student killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus, included a discussion of gun control, whether to respond to violence with violence, and the public's "celebration of victimhood," said the professor, Nicholas Winset.

During the demonstration, Winset pretended to shoot some students. Then one student pretended to shoot Winset to illustrate his point that the gunman might have been stopped had another student or faculty member been armed. "A classroom is supposed to be a place for academic exploration," Winset, who taught financial accounting, told the Boston Herald.

He said administrators had asked the faculty to engage students on the issue. But on Friday, he got a letter saying he was fired and ordering him to stay off campus.

Winset, 37, argued that the Catholic liberal arts school was stifling free discussion by firing him, and he said the move would have a "chilling effect" on open debate. He posted an 18-minute video on the online site YouTube defending his action.

The college issued a statement saying: "Emmanuel College has clear standards of classroom and campus conduct, and does not in any way condone the use of discriminatory or obscene language."

Student Junny Lee, 19, told The Boston Globe that most students didn't appear to find Winset's demonstration offensive.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070423/ap_on_re_us/professor_fired

[Jolie Rouge]

Carolyn McCarthy doesn’t understand her own gun-control legislation
April 18, 2007

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/04/18/video-carolyn-mccarthy-doesnt-understand-her-own-gun-control-legislation/

I wish I could show you the bill (H.R. 1859) but the text isn’t online at Thomas yet. It’s probably identical or nearly identical to this bill, which she introduced in February, to reinstate the assault-weapons ban. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h110-1022

Tucker Carlson scrounged up a copy and put a simple question to her: since she’s so worried about weapons with barrel shrouds, could she at least explain to the viewers what a “barrel shroud” is?



“Do you no what a barrel shroud is? … oh cause it’s in your legislation…”

Just the way he said it was awesome. How about when talking about banning or regulating things in the future, we know what we are banning and regulating?


LOL! Good for Tucker - show her for the tool she is. Next, let’s pass legislation outlawing scopes too. Then we can outlaw metal ’cause you know, they make guns with metal.

How about banning murder? Oh, wait, that’s been done, but they’re still murdering! That just can’t be! So banning guns will eliminate murder?

Here’s the thing about McCarthy. Her husband was one of the victims of the Long Island Railroad shooting perpetrated by Colin Ferguson back in the 1990’s, and ascended to Congress in large part due to her gun control agenda. The fact that she doesn’t know what a barrel shroud is (although honestly I don’t know what it is either) just shows how ignorant she is on her signature issue.



This is why Eisner’s so hot for the “emotional, story-driven” approach.
http://hotair.com/archives/2007/04/18/video-michael-eisner-says-its-time-to-get-the-public-emotional-about-gun-control/

[YankeeMary]

I went to Virginia Tech this weekend, so I wanted to share with you all. The entire campus itself is beautiful and HUGE! The Memorials they have all over the place (it seemed) were just breath taking. I just don't know the know the words to describe the emotion on that campus. I was so very proud of those young adults and how they were handling this horrible horrible tragidy. They had so much support for one another, it was really beautiful. You can feel the togetherness that this has made stronger. The flowers and candles were so beautiful. There was a huge marble looking wall and it was surrounded with flowers and candles and each victim had their own pile of "gift", their loved ones would make things, bring pictures, write poems, etc and place it on their respectable "pile". The air smelled so good from the flowers/candles and it was outdoors, so you know there was a bunch of each in order to make the outdoors smell that good. I am telling you it was amazing. I feel it was a ;ife altering experience for me and mine. I am real proud of those young adults they are awesome.

[Njean31]

I went to Virginia Tech this weekend, so I wanted to share with you all. The entire campus itself is beautiful and HUGE! The Memorials they have all over the place (it seemed) were just breath taking. I just don't know the know the words to describe the emotion on that campus. I was so very proud of those young adults and how they were handling this horrible horrible tragidy. They had so much support for one another, it was really beautiful. You can feel the togetherness that this has made stronger. The flowers and candles were so beautiful. There was a huge marble looking wall and it was surrounded with flowers and candles and each victim had their own pile of "gift", their loved ones would make things, bring pictures, write poems, etc and place it on their respectable "pile". The air smelled so good from the flowers/candles and it was outdoors, so you know there was a bunch of each in order to make the outdoors smell that good. I am telling you it was amazing. I feel it was a ;ife altering experience for me and mine. I am real proud of those young adults they are awesome.

oh, that made me smile and almost cry:)

[Jolie Rouge]

I went to Virginia Tech this weekend, so I wanted to share with you all. The entire campus itself is beautiful and HUGE! The Memorials they have all over the place (it seemed) were just breath taking. I just don't know the know the words to describe the emotion on that campus. I was so very proud of those young adults and how they were handling this horrible horrible tragidy. They had so much support for one another, it was really beautiful. You can feel the togetherness that this has made stronger. The flowers and candles were so beautiful. There was a huge marble looking wall and it was surrounded with flowers and candles and each victim had their own pile of "gift", their loved ones would make things, bring pictures, write poems, etc and place it on their respectable "pile". The air smelled so good from the flowers/candles and it was outdoors, so you know there was a bunch of each in order to make the outdoors smell that good. I am telling you it was amazing. I feel it was a ;ife altering experience for me and mine. I am real proud of those young adults they are awesome.


Thank you for sharing your experience with us...

[YankeeMary]

oh, that made me smile and almost cry:)

It did both for me.:)

[YankeeMary]

Thank you for sharing your experience with us...

You are welcome. I wanted to kinda share what might not be portrayed on TV. These are awesome kids!!!