View Full Version : RETURN OF THE BOY SCOUTS -- to the U.S. Supreme Court
Jolie Rouge
08-09-2006, 08:39 PM
RETURN OF THE BOY SCOUTS
[to the U.S. Supreme Court]
uexpress.com ^ | August 9, 2006 | James J. Kilpatrick
Posted on 08/09/2006 5:39:13 PM PDT by freedomdefender
After a six-year absence, the Boy Scouts of America are back in the high court again. This time it is their brother Sea Scouts who are asking the Supreme Court for a lifeline. The case of Evans v. City of Berkeley is a close one. These are the facts. Eugene Evans joined the Sea Scouts in Berkeley, Calif., in 1957. He was then 13 years old. It is not especially relevant, but he has served as skipper (the equivalent of a scoutmaster) of the Sea Scout ship Farallon for the past 35 years. The vessel serves as the equivalent of a BSA troop. Over the years, hundreds of teenagers have benefited from training in sailing, seamanship, engine repair and other maritime skills. The value of the Sea Scout experience is not questioned.
Seventy years ago the city began giving the Sea Scouts a free berth at its marina in exchange for rip-rap from a Scout-owned quarry. Everything went along without incident until 1997, when the Berkeley City Council amended its policy: Since then, as a condition for free occupancy, the city has required tax-exempt users of the marina to enter into a formal written pledge: Access to the facility cannot be predicated on a person's "race, color, religion, ethnicity, national origin, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, political affiliation, disability or medical condition."
The Sea Scouts were prepared to go along with everything except "sexual orientation" and "religion." Like land-based Boy Scouts, the Sea Scouts exclude avowed homosexuals and atheists. In an effort to preserve their berthing privilege, they filed a formal statement expressing their view: "Sexual orientation is a private matter, and we do not ask either adults or youths to divulge this information at any time."
This was not good enough for the Berkeley City Council. In May 1998, the council formally cut off the Scouts from their free berthing privileges. The Scouts and the city have been in and out of court ever since. Last year the California Supreme Court ruled 9-0 in the city's favor. Now the Scouts' appeal is pending in the high court here in Washington. The Scouts argued unsuccessfully in California that the city had denied them their constitutional right to freedom of association. Their controversial positions on religion and homosexuality may be unpopular in certain quarters, they concede, but the positions are not unlawful. More to the point, the Scouts' right to advocate at least their opinion as to homosexual membership has been constitutionally protected since the Dale case of 2000.
That was the case that involved Eagle Scout James Dale, an avowed homosexual and public advocate of gay rights. After the Scouts expelled him for his public apostasy, he sued for damages. The Supreme Court, speaking through Chief Justice Rehnquist, rejected his position 5-4. The effect of that opinion may be that Berkeley cannot withhold from the Scouts certain benefits to other nonprofit organizations. Then, again, it may be that the facts are sufficiently different in the case of the Sea Scouts.
In their petition to the Supreme Court, the Scouts allege that in April 1998 the city's Waterfront Commission attempted to impose particularly onerous conditions: In order to receive free berthing, the Scouts would have to "disseminate, advocate and proselytize Berkeley's viewpoint on sexual orientation in an effort to change the BSA's national policies regarding gays and atheists." The council refused to impose this requirement, but it lingers as a reflection of the municipal attitude.
The California Supreme Court rejected the Scouts' position across the board. In its view, the city had not penalized the Scouts for exercising a right of free speech or association; the city had not prohibited the Scouts from doing anything; it had not demanded "adherence to or renunciation of any idea or viewpoint." The city had merely refused to accommodate the activities of an organization engaged in invidious discrimination.
We heard essentially this same argument advanced from another quarter two years ago. Then the Department of Defense was engaged in a running battle with some of the nation's most prestigious law schools. The issue was whether the armed services, which banned homosexuals, would be able to recruit graduates on the same basis with other potential employers. The universities, hoity-toity, at first refused to extend more than the most minimal courtesies to Army recruiters. After they were threatened with loss of federal aid, they came around.
My guess is that the City of Berkeley has much greater leverage on the Scouts than Yale and Harvard had on the U.S. Army. Pipers still call tunes, and Berkeley is calling this one.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1680827/posts
Jolie Rouge
12-16-2007, 10:05 PM
Boy Scouts' banishment threatens Catholic Church
Philly precedent could be used against museums, radio station
December 14, 2007 1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Bob Unruh - © 2007 WorldNetDaily.com
Pro-homosexual Philadelphia officials' campaign to evict the Boy Scouts of America from their long-held regional headquarters on city-owned ground will create a precedent that could endanger dozens of other groups in the city, including the Catholic Church, as well as museums and a public radio station.
The issue: The City Council has decided the Boy Scouts, because they prohibit participation by open homosexuals, do not comply with the city's anti-discrimination policies and can no longer rent their headquarters for $1 a year, as they have since the city approved its original resolution on the plan 80 years ago.
The city had set a Dec. 3 deadline for the Scouts' Cradle of Liberty Council to agree to pay $200,000 a year, instead of $1, but the Scouts simply ignored that deadline, and negotiations apparently have broken off.
Assuming there are no changes in circumstances, that would mean the Scouts would have to be out of the building, which they built and paid for with their own funds decades ago, on June 1.
That left many, including a black leadership organization called Project 21, headed by WND columnist Mychal Massie, enraged. "I live close to Philadelphia and am aware of the problems plaguing the city," said Project 21 member Jimmie Hollis. "The fact that the City Council is taking exception to the Boy Scouts is an outrage. With so much to fix, why are they so willing to instead hobble an organization trying to help people?"
Project 21 said the focus on the Scouts' prohibition of open homosexuals is wrong. That condemnation had come from city councilman Darrell Clarke, who told the New York Times, "you cannot be in a city-owned facility being subsidized by the taxpayers and not have language in your lease that talks about nondiscrimination."
Scouting spokesman Gregg Shields said such "open homosexuality" would be inconsistent with the group's values. That policy was affirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000 when it ruled the Boy Scouts of America is a private organization that can set its own membership rules under the First Amendment.
The headquarters building, the Marks Center, was built by the BSA, but the half-acre parcel of land is owned by the city. The city council voted last year to renege on its ongoing $1-a-year lease and decided to set the rent at $200,000 a year, something BSA leaders say they cannot pay and still serve the 69,000 youths who benefit from their programs.
"If the Boy Scouts were anti-God, championed homosexuality and were anti-establishment, I would venture to say they would find themselves welcome in Philadelphia," said Massie. "It's the fact that they stick to and seek to promote a responsible and reasonable code of ethics that makes them a target of the anti-family left that tends to dominate urban governments such as Philadelphia's these days."
The nonprofit group, sponsored by the National Center for Public Policy Research, has been a leading voice of the African-American community since the 1990s.
A spokesman for the Philadelphia Scouts, Jeff Jubelirer, told WND there would be several significant issues to address should the city pursue an eviction. He said there are about 75 other organizations in Philadelphia with similar building or land-use arrangements as the Scouts.
Their original agreement was that the city allowed the Scouts to use the city land in perpetuity for $1 a year, but the Scouts would have to build their own building and maintain it. That was the agreement on which the Council decided to renege.
The city "is making a value judgment" about the Scouts, because the other organizations are not being given the same ultimatums and deadlines, he said. "They're all great organizations. There's nothing wrong with them," he said. And they have lease arrangements that range from payments of $1 to $100 a year for various uses.
One such institution is the Catholic Church, which does not allow women ministers, he noted. "How are they going to justify differentiation in treatment," he wondered. "There are wonderful arts organizations, museums, a public radio station. They're on that list."
He said the other issue is the improvements the Scouts have made to the land, including the building and the $2 million in renovations done in just recent years. The original agreement envisioned the Scouts continuing to use the land "in perpetuity," so will those improvements then be reimbursed if the city reneges, he wondered.
And if that city agreement isn't upheld, he asked, are there other agreements that likewise will simply be abandoned?
Jubilerer said the city, as of now, is applying its pressure to a single group, and not taking into consideration that all groups in similar circumstances should be treated similarly.
The campaign against the Boy Scouts has been pursued by Romulo Diaz, the city solicitor, who, according to Philadelphia media reports, is an open homosexual. He had set the Dec. 3 deadline. The Scouts, however, "do not feel obliged to respond to that date," Jubelirer said. And Diaz followed up with a statement the city would "respect" the Scouting organization's right to respond before it takes further steps.
Such issues were virtually nonexistent before 2000. That year, a challenge was raised by homosexuals to the private organization's policy and the dispute went to the U.S. Supreme Court, which affirmed the Boy Scouts right to set membership requirements.
Then activist groups turned their sights on property arrangements such as in Philadelphia, where the Scouts have been using the donated property for years.
Former WND columnist Hans Zeiger, who wrote a book about the Scouts and their battles, "Get Off My Honor: The Assault on the Boy Scouts of America," said the Boy Scouts since 1911 have been reaching out to the disabled, racial and ethnic minorities, Native Americans and inner city children with the lessons of right and wrong.
"When it comes to a Scout troop, sexual orientation is an issue that goes beyond differences in skin color or economic status. It affects such matters as tenting arrangements and the development of pre-teenage masculinity in a close-knit group of boys and men," he wrote.
"So here's what I say to the radical Left in the city where the Declaration of Independence was signed … Take away the funding. Seize the 75-year-old headquarters building. The Scouts can survive without it," he wrote at the time.
In a column, Robert Knight of the Culture and Media Institute of the Media Research Center cited the underlying unfairness of such a decision in Philadelphia.
Knight, in his critique of a Washington Post report on the dispute, noted that the Scouts "built the building with their own money, and then gave it to the city in 1928."
He also noted the Scouts' lease was "in perpetuity" but the city simply decided to renege.
"The Scouts bar openly homosexual Scoutmasters and members for moral reasons and for the sake of protecting young boys from possible harm, not because they are motivated by bigotry or prejudice," he wrote. "The Post article read as if the Scouts have no rational reason for wanting to determine whether prospective leaders or members are attracted sexually to males."
WND recently reported citizens outraged by the city's ultimatum crashed the e-mail system of the Philadelphia mayor's office.
About 150,000 Boy Scout-related e-mails were removed from the city's e-mail system, reported the Bulletin newspaper of Philadelphia.
"We were deluged," said Terry Phillis, chief information officer for Mayor John Street. "We pulled the messages off so they wouldn't take the system down. It had to be done to protect system integrity."
City officials in San Francisco and Boston have made similar decisions to displace the Scouts because of the group's behavior code.
WND also reported earlier this year a Scouts victory when the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit dismissed a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union to stop the Defense Department from allowing the Scouts to hold its National Jamboree every four years at Fort A.P. Hill in Fredericksburg, Va.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59201
tigger4
12-17-2007, 07:17 AM
The Boy Scouts in our state have lost funding from United Way and a lot of other companies because of their discriminatory ways. Personally, I think that is the way it should be. If they cannot accept everyone as they are, then they do not need public monies.
My son refused to join the Boy Scouts. My friend is some council leader or something out here and has tried for years to get him to join. My son flat out told them he would never be part of a group that knowingly left people out because they were different.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 08:37 AM
Are they cutting funding to the United Nego Collge Fund for their discriminatory ways ?
tigger4
12-17-2007, 09:14 AM
How are they discriminatory? They are a foundation started to assist people of color. Boy Scouts was started to include ALL boys in scouting. Not just the straight ones or religious ones.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 09:54 AM
How are they discriminatory? They are a foundation started to assist people of color. Boy Scouts was started to include ALL boys in scouting. Not just the straight ones or religious ones.
The prohibition against openly homosexual LEADERS is to protect the BOYS from sexual predators. Women are actively discouraged from going on camping trips for the same reasons ... in the event that a mom does go on a camp-out, they are required to tent a certain distance from the Scouts. We are required to aviod even the appearance of "impropriety". Do you honestly have a problem with this policy ?
It is a well established practice of sexual predators to place themselves in a postion to earn the trust of those they wish to use and abuse. Not all gay men are pedaphiles .... but is it appropraite to set a precendent where they go camping for a week or weekend with minimal supervison with a group of impressionable young boys ?
This policy has been in place since the begining of BSA - and was in place at the time of the original agreement between the Cradle of Liberty Council and the City Council of Philadelphia. Do they now void a legal contract because they want too? In that case, the UNCF should cut me a check for my tuition.
tigger4
12-17-2007, 10:13 AM
The prohibition against openly homosexual LEADERS is to protect the BOYS from sexual predators. Women are actively discouraged from going on camping trips for the same reasons ... in the event that a mom does go on a camp-out, they are required to tent a certain distance from the Scouts. We are required to aviod even the appearance of "impropriety". Do you honestly have a problem with this policy ?
It is a well established practice of sexual predators to place themselves in a postion to earn the trust of those they wish to use and abuse. Not all gay men are pedaphiles .... but is it appropraite to set a precendent where they go camping for a week or weekend with minimal supervison with a group of impressionable young boys ?
This policy has been in place since the begining of BSA - and was in place at the time of the original agreement between the Cradle of Liberty Council and the City Council of Philadelphia. Do they now void a legal contract because they want too? In that case, the UNCF should cut me a check for my tuition.
More straight men are pedophiles than gays. So, that kind of blows that whole theory out the window.
They don't even allow gay boys to be members.
Girl Scouts allow everyone to join. We have dads who go on camping trips they just stay in a different tent. As a matter of fact, no Girl Scout leader is allowed to stay in the same tent as their troop. No adult is allowed to be in the tent or cabin with them.
I still will never support an organization that discriminates against little boys who are gay or don't believe in God. I think it is wrong.
renaissanceman
12-17-2007, 10:33 AM
Lets not forget something here.
Until 1973 the APA (American Psychological Association) classified Homosexuality and Lesbianism as deviant mental disorders!
They changed their position, based NOT upon new science but mainly political pressure. Dr. Robert Spitzer is remembered as the person MOST responsible for the APA changing their stance.
Then in 2003, Dr. Spitzer CHANGED HIS MIND! He told the APA that after PERSONALLY interviewing over 200 FORMER homosexuals, he no longer believed that Homosexuality was a NATURAL state and that it couldnt be helped.
I am a conservative Christian. The Boy Scouts are doing NOTHING wrong.
If a kid or an adult doesnt want to be in it, they dont have to. The Boy Scouts have ALWAYS been about God and Country. If you dont believe in God, you may not want to join. If you are Gay you probably dont want to join either. If you DO I would have to question WHY! I can think of only 2 reasons a Gay person would want to join an organization that is ANTI gay.
1. To force your agenda on others.
2. To meet potential partners or victims.
Those who INSIST on calling this discrimination on difference are either not being honest or dont know the facts.
NO ONE is born gay. There is NO irefutable scientific proof of this. This isnt about difference, its about SIN and sexual deviancy.
Anyone who goes to a Gay pride parade and can come away convinced that these people are normal might want to seek Mental help as well.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 11:42 AM
Girl Scouts allow everyone to join. We have dads who go on camping trips they just stay in a different tent. As a matter of fact, no Girl Scout leader is allowed to stay in the same tent as their troop. No adult is allowed to be in the tent or cabin with them.
Girl Scouts also have a prohibition against OPENLY GAY LEADERS. Two leaders are REQUIRED to be in the cabin with the girls - at no time can a single leader ( male or female ) be alone with single Scout ( this applies to the Girl Scouts, Cub SCouts and Boy Scouts ). Male Leaders ( and they have to be a registered Leader which means a background check ) are required to sleep in seperate accomadations at least 20 yards from where the girls are sleeping.
f your children have refused to be Scouts and I would assume that you are not a Scout Leader, how did you come by your "knowledge" of the rules and regs concerning Scouts? I have attended several training sessions as I am a registered Leader in all three orginizations.
They don't even allow gay boys to be members.
I have NEVER heard this ... is this in a Council near you ?
More straight men are pedophiles than gays. So, that kind of blows that whole theory out the window.
But a pedaphile who is attracted to young boys would statisticly be more interested in being a BSA Leader then one who is interested in toddlers, correct. We have no toddlers in BSA. So that becomes a circular arguement.
I still will never support an organization that discriminates against little boys who are gay or don't believe in God. I think it is wrong.
That is your priveledge.
"Little boys" are in their formative years and we do our best to protect them from inappropriate influences - anyone who would be interested in them sexually ( male or female ) do not belong in a position of a mentor where they could abuse the trust the children ( or the parents ) have given us.
If you do not believe in God - why would you *want* to join an organization which holds the motto "God and Country" ? It is a volentary assosication - I don't think anyone is "forced" to join any of the Scouting groups.
But this is about a City Council going back on a contract due to a long standing policy of the BSA which was in affect at the time the contract was initialy agreed to.
tigger4
12-17-2007, 01:08 PM
I have been a Girl Scout leader for over 10 years. I am a council chair for our local council, and have sat on the state chair for the past 5 years.
There are no rules about lesbian leaders in the National Girl Scout council. And if a local council is not allowing lesbian leaders they are in direct violation of the rules.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 01:19 PM
With all your experiance I am surprised by the gaps in your knowlegde and the venom in your view of the BSA.
tigger4
12-17-2007, 01:39 PM
I have never been involved with Boy Scouts. Again it goes back to not involving myself with a discriminatory group. I do not have a venomous view of them, I just highly disagree with them.
What gaps are there in my knowledge?? Girl Scouts do not discriminate against gays, you do not have to pledge to God to be a member, therefore I have been involved with them for many years. They discuss eating disorders, domestic violence, sexual development, personal safety and many other things I feel all girls should be aware of. If at anytime they were to change their views and become discriminatory I would sever all ties with them.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 02:33 PM
I have never been involved with Boy Scouts. Again it goes back to not involving myself with a discriminatory group. I do not have a venomous view of them, I just highly disagree with them.
So, you don't know much about them besides what you have "heard" .... and you have based this view on ... at best ... second hand information.
What gaps are there in my knowledge?? Girl Scouts do not discriminate against gays, you do not have to pledge to God to be a member, therefore I have been involved with them for many years. They discuss eating disorders, domestic violence, sexual development, personal safety and many other things I feel all girls should be aware of. If at anytime they were to change their views and become discriminatory I would sever all ties with them.
I don't see that much diffeence in the Pleadge and Law for both groups ... what is there that is so offensive?
Girl Scout Promise[b]
On my honor, I will try:
[b]To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
The Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
Boy Scout Oath
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
Boy Scout Law
A Scout is:
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverent
tigger4
12-17-2007, 02:39 PM
Girl Scouts are not required to pledge an oath to God. That part of the Girl Scout promise and law can be left out. Can you do that in the Boy Scouts?
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 02:54 PM
How do you address the Pledge of Allegience, Flag Cerimonies, Religious Badge work, Scout Sunday?
Juliette Low developed the GSA after meeting with BP - the Girl Scouts are modeled after the Boy Scout program ...
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 03:24 PM
Girl Scouts are not required to pledge an oath to God. That part of the Girl Scout promise and law can be left out.
So you get to just edit as you find convient ?
My purpose... to go on with my heart and soul, devoting all my energies to Girl Scouts, and heart and hand with them, we will make our lives and the lives of the future girls happy, healthy and holy.
-- Juliette G. Low
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/julietteg278661.html
Holy \Ho"ly\ : 1. Set apart to the service or worship of God; hallowed; sacred; reserved from profane or common use; 2. Spiritually whole or sound; of unimpaired innocence and virtue; free from sinful affections; pure in heart; godly; pious; irreproachable; guiltless; acceptable to God.
http://www.dictionary.net/holy
Bahet
12-17-2007, 03:31 PM
Both my boys are Scouts. They say the oath just the same as they say the pledge. I consider us Christians but because we take the "salad bar" approach I've been told that I'm not really Christian. When they say "to serve God and my country" they say it the same way they say "one nation, under God" It's not a reference to someone else's version of God, even if that person claims to be "more Christian". It's said as a reference to the God we believe in.
Jolie Rouge
12-17-2007, 03:57 PM
Both my boys are Scouts. They say the oath just the same as they say the pledge. I consider us Christians but because we take the "salad bar" approach I've been told that I'm not really Christian. When they say "to serve God and my country" they say it the same way they say "one nation, under God" It's not a reference to someone else's version of God, even if that person claims to be "more Christian". It's said as a reference to the God we believe in.
That is also how I have always understood it. It is the "God" of your personal belief : Allah, Yahweh. Jehovah...
Pull up a list of the religious emblems available for the Scouts ( GSA & BSA ) to study; it is both inclusive and impressive.
http://www.scouting.org/awards/religious/awards/index.html
( I may have to look up some of these : Zoroastrian ? Salvation Army ? Meher Baba ? Moravian ? )
tigger4
12-18-2007, 05:35 AM
National Council even states that the God part can be omitted from the pledge and Girl Scout law. It is in the bylaws.
Girl Scouts accepts all girls. It doesn't matter if they are Christian, Buddhist, atheist, etc. They do not force the girls to conform to a cookie cutter pattern.
Every girl in every troop nationwide has the choice of saying God in the pledge or not. If they are not religious or of a different faith they don't have to say it.
It may have been started one way, but it has changed a lot. I am sure Juliette herself never thought there would be a need for drug awareness, sexual health awareness, domestic violence, etc. lessons in the Scouts.
PrincessArky
12-18-2007, 12:16 PM
we were involved in both and to be honest I don't have a very high opinion of either of them just based on how we were treated locally.........we dont have boy scouts or girl scouts in my home town anymore
Jolie Rouge
12-18-2007, 01:43 PM
National Council even states that the God part can be omitted from the pledge and Girl Scout law. It is in the bylaws.
So you can edit out of the pledge that which you do not like ?
b]Girl Scout Promise[/b]
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
So if I dont' feel like "being a sister to every Girl Scout" I can just ignore that ? I only need to be a sister to those that look like me - or think like me - of the same soci-economic status as me ... I only have to help those I find it convienet to assist.
Girl Scouts accepts all girls. It doesn't matter if they are Christian, Buddhist, atheist, etc. They do not force the girls to conform to a cookie cutter pattern.
I don't understand why you keep insisting that BSA does - when you admit that you have no first hand dealings with the organization.
The Religious Emblems program makes available to Members of the Boy Scouts of America programs on African Methodist Episcopal Church, African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, Armenian Apostolic Church of America (Western Prelacy), Armenian Church of America (Eastern Diocese), Baha'i, Baptist, Southern Baptist, Buddhist, Catholic-Eastern, Catholic-Roman, Christian Church (Disciples of Christ), Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, Church of Christ, Scientist, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS), Churches of Christ, Community of Christ, Eastern Orthodox, Episcopal, General Church of the New Jerusalem (The New Church), Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Lutheran, Meher Baba, Moravian, Polish National Catholic Church, Presbyterian Church in America, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), Protestant and Independent Christian Churches ( includes Full Gospel ), Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), The Salvation Army, United Church of Christ, United Methodist, United Pentecostal Church International, Unity Churches, Zoroastrian
http://www.scouting.org/awards/religious/chart.jpg
AND the GSA REP is a replica of the BSA REP. In both you are encouraged to study and earn the emblem of the faith of your family and encourage to investicate other faiths afterward to promote understanding. So I am really confused to why you keep stating about BSA intolerance.
tigger4
12-18-2007, 05:06 PM
Boy Scouts state that you have to pledge to God. There have been Boy Scouts stripped of their awards for being atheists. You have heard of that right?
Girl Scouts give you the option of pledging to God or not. The Boy Scouts do not.
Shann
12-18-2007, 07:39 PM
The Boy Scouts in our state have lost funding from United Way and a lot of other companies because of their discriminatory ways. Personally, I think that is the way it should be. If they cannot accept everyone as they are, then they do not need public monies.
My son refused to join the Boy Scouts. My friend is some council leader or something out here and has tried for years to get him to join. My son flat out told them he would never be part of a group that knowingly left people out because they were different.
I agree with you. If I were to have boys I would not allow them to join the BS due to their views. I think it's ridiculous to say that gay men cannot be leaders b/c they could be pedophiles, look at all the priests who are... are they openly gay?!?!
Jolie Rouge
12-18-2007, 08:55 PM
There have been Boy Scouts stripped of their awards for being atheists. You have heard of that right?
No I have not heard that. Could you provide some background?
tigger4
12-19-2007, 02:59 AM
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/102003_atheistscout30.shtml
Monday, December 30, 2002
Atheist expects Boy Scouts to change, but not soon
By JOHN IWASAKI
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
Darrell Lambert is prepared for a long struggle with the Boy Scouts of America, one decided by public opinion and not by lawsuits.
The 19-year-old Eagle Scout, the subject of national attention after being booted out of the organization last month for being an atheist, doesn't think his recent appeal will reverse his situation. Not soon, anyway.
Loren Callahan / P-I
Darrell Lambert of Olalla, who was kicked out of the Boy Scouts for being an atheist, has appealed the decision. But he says he won't go to court. "I'd like them to realize it is the moral thing to do."
"I think eventually the Boy Scouts will change," the Olalla teen said yesterday. "It'll just take longer than I like."
Lambert, who earned 37 merit badges in 10 years and assisted in leading a Port Orchard troop, sent his appeal last week to the Scouts' Western Region office in Tempe, Ariz. His letter started a process that likely could take months to resolve.
If the regional office turns down his appeal, Lambert could appeal to the national office in Irving, Texas. The national office's decision is final.
Lambert doesn't expect to win at either the regional or national level, and says he won't go to court "to fight my way into the Boy Scouts. I'd like them to realize it is the moral thing to do."
He acknowledges that the Scouts, a private organization, has the right to establish requirements for membership. The Boy Scout Law says members must be reverent, and in their oath Scouts pledge a duty to God.
Lambert's stance became known in October, when he challenged a Scout leader who had said that atheists would have to go around the rules to be in Scouts.
"Legally, (the Scouts) have a right to discriminate," Lambert said at a presentation on the issue yesterday. "Morally, they don't. That's what I'm fighting. They can't teach good citizenship and practice bad citizenship."
Local and national representatives for the Scouts could not be reached for comment yesterday. Last month, local spokesman Mark Hunter said that the Boy Scouts maintain that "duty to God is one of our founding principles. It's been that way for 92 years."
The Scouts "realize that not every individual nor organization prescribes to the same beliefs that the (Boy Scouts of America) does, but we hope that all Americans can be as respectful of our beliefs as we are of theirs . . .," according to a statement in support of diversity on the national office's Web site.
Lambert, a freshman at Tacoma Community College, has the support of Troop 1531 in Port Orchard, where his mother, Trish Lambert, is the Scoutmaster.
Two advocacy groups have joined his cause: Scouting For All, based in Petaluma, Calif., and the Coalition for Inclusive Scouting, a group started in New England by Mark Noel of Hanover, N.H.
Noel, who appeared yesterday with Lambert, is an Eagle Scout and former assistant Scoutmaster who was kicked out of the organization in 2000 after revealing that he was gay.
"The values of Scouting are good," Noel said. "The values work in spite of discrimination, certainly not because of it."
In his letter of appeal to the Scouts' national office, Lambert said the reason for his dismissal was "un-Scout-like and un-American" and that "morals come from more than a belief in God."
Being told that he could no longer be in Scouts was like being "asked to leave my family," he said.
"A Scout is loyal. . . . I'll always consider myself a Boy Scout."
PRESENTATION TONIGHT
Darrell Lambert, who was kicked out of the Boy Scouts of America for being an atheist, will speak at 7 tonight at South Sound Center, 308 Tacoma Ave. S., Tacoma. Appearing with him will be Robert Raketty, regional director of Scouting For All.
P-I reporter John Iwasaki can be reached at 206-448-8096 or
[email protected]
http://www.komotv.com/news/archive/4074941.html
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/West/10/31/atheist.scout.ap/
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/116/story_11619_1.html
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/257532.htm
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE3D71E3FF930A3575AC0A9679582 60
renaissanceman
12-19-2007, 10:11 AM
I agree with you. If I were to have boys I would not allow them to join the BS due to their views. I think it's ridiculous to say that gay men cannot be leaders b/c they could be pedophiles, look at all the priests who are... are they openly gay?!?!
not tryin' to pick on ya here, but I dont think the WHOLE reason is JUST because they might be pedophiles.
Traditional Christianity views Homosexuality as a sinful and deviant behavior. the Scouts do not feel that these people can/will work towards the ideals and beliefs of the Scouts.
The threat of predatory behavior and the idea of gay hook ups are just 2 MORE reasons that I believe they dont allow it.
tigger4
12-19-2007, 10:21 AM
The Boy Scouts are not a religious institution. They are a group for boys to get together and learn things while having fun and making friends. So, really what is the problem with a gay leader or a gay scout for that matter? Or an atheist?
Kind of reminds of a reindeer who wasn't allowed to play any reindeer games.
Jolie Rouge
05-27-2008, 12:43 PM
Boy Scouts sue Philadelphia over rent, policy barring gays
By MARYCLAIRE DALE, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 48 minutes ago
PHILADELPHIA - A Boy Scouts chapter engaged in a long fight over gay rights has sued the city of Philadelphia to try to avoid paying $200,000 a year in rent to stay in the city-owned space that has been its headquarters for 80 years.
The Scouts currently pay $1 annually for the space, but the city has given them until Saturday to open their membership to gays or start being charged fair-market rent.
The federal suit filed Friday accuses the city of censorship for targeting the Scouts but maintaining free or nominal leases with other groups that limit membership, such as Baptist and Roman Catholic church groups and The Colonial Dames of America.
The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 2000 that the Boy Scouts, as a private group, have a First Amendment right to bar gays.
However, taxpayers cannot keep subsidizing the rent of a group that discriminates, City Solicitor Shelley Smith said Tuesday. "They're free to exercise their First Amendment rights," Smith said. "What they're not free to do is get a benefit from the city while violating our policy."
Smith said the city was unaware of any discrimination by other groups with city-subsidized space, but that it would investigate any possible violations.
The Philadelphia chapter adopted an explicit nondiscrimination policy in 2003 after negotiations with the city. But it was forced to rescind it when the Boy Scouts of America said Philadelphia Scout officials could not deviate from national rules barring participation by anyone who is openly gay.
The local chapter, called the Cradle of Liberty Council, then adopted what it considered compromise language that barred "unlawful discrimination" — the same standard used by Scout groups in New York, a council spokesman said Tuesday. "If that's working and there haven't been any problems, why can't that continue?" spokesman Jeff Jubelirer said.
The city owns the Beaux Arts headquarters constructed by the Scouts in 1928 and the land beneath it. The Scouts have spent about $60,000 a year to maintain the building, and another $1.5 million for renovations in 1994, the suit said.
The Scouts say the higher rent would force them to cut programs, and is equivalent to the cost of sending about 800 needy children to summer camp.
The Cradle of Liberty Council oversees about 300 troops in Philadelphia and suburban Delaware and Montgomery counties. The council serves about 70,000 children, including 50,000 in the city, the suit said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080527/ap_on_re_us/philadelphia_scouts_rent;_ylt=AuxmKhcCKI7qJi6EVp9y rSus0NUE
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 02:12 PM
Philadelphia: Scouts should pay for excluding gays
Maryclaire Dale, Associated Press Writer – 15 mins ago
PHILADELPHIA – A Boy Scouts chapter in Philadelphia may have ousted just one gay scout in the decade since the U.S. Supreme Court upheld the organization's right to ban gays, but that doesn't mean untold others haven't been shut out, a city lawyer told jurors Tuesday.
In a 2003 press release, the Cradle of Liberty Council pledged to abide by the Boy Scouts of America's no-gays membership policy, rather than risk losing its charter.
"That press release is a sign on the door that says 'No Gays Allowed,'" city lawyer David Smith argued. "The sign on the door scares away ... the gay kids, the gay leaders, the gay employees, before they even apply."
The local council is suing Philadelphia in federal court to try to keep the free lease it gets from the city for its Beaux Arts headquarters. The city says the scouts can no longer stay for free because their policies violate a local anti-discrimination ordinance. Jurors heard closing arguments from both sides and began deliberating Tuesday.
The council has tried to walk a fine line in the years since the 2000 Supreme Court ruling. In 2003, it enacted its own nondiscrimination policy but was forced to retrench when the Boy Scouts of America ordered it to conform with national rules. The chapter later enacted a nondiscrimination statement that says it doesn't tolerate illegal discrimination.
The council says its free lease benefits both the scouts and the city, with the scouts providing services to needy city youth and spending $60,000 to $70,000 a year on building maintenance.
"This is a city with its priorities totally out of whack," argued council lawyer William McSwain, who suggested that crime and poverty were far more pressing city issues.
He also mentioned the thousands of city children growing up without fathers.
"For many of those boys, the Boy Scouts are a lifeline," McSwain said. "And this city wants to give the Boy Scouts the back of its hand?"
Former Boy Scout Greg Lattera was one of those boys. A gay teen growing up in what he described as a rough, predominantly Italian-Catholic neighborhood in South Philadelphia, he called scouting "probably the only thing I had going for me."
But at 18, holding the rank just below Eagle Scout, he was forced out after declaring himself gay — and praising the council's short-lived anti-discrimination policy — in a brief TV news interview.
Smith argued Tuesday that Lattera was "kicked out for admitting he was gay." The Boy Scouts' attorneys suggested he was punished for pursuing a personal agenda while in uniform.
The Boy Scout council asked jurors to consider that the city allows a Roman Catholic parish and a Colonial Dames of America group to stay in city properties. Those groups, the city said, have agreed to open their properties to all.
In lieu of the free rent, the city said the Boy Scouts can start paying $200,000 a year, thereby ending the city subsidy.
The Boy Scouts say they can't afford it, but the city presented evidence showing the council paid its top two executives a combined $430,000 in 2007 and listed $26 million in assets on tax returns, including $14 million in cash and securities. The council also is spending $860,000 in legal fees to fight the eviction, money it wants the city to reimburse, according to court papers.
The Boy Scouts of America, based in Irving, Texas, took in $183 million in revenues in 2007, and listed $868 million in assets, most in cash and securities, Smith said.
"The Boy Scouts of America, if they want to impose discrimination on the Cradle of Liberty, surely can afford to pay the modest fair-market amount the city wants," Smith said.
Lattera testified on behalf of the city, but still encourages people to let their children become scouts. He said he feels manipulated by the gay-rights advocates who called him to the televised 2003 meeting that led to his ouster, but also faults the Boy Scouts for forcing gays to hide their sexuality or stay away.
"I'll never tell anybody to stay quiet. You should be proud of who you are," he said. "I am proud of who I am."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100622/ap_on_re_us/us_philadelphia_scouts_eviction;_ylt=AuIRmo9AtTHX2 5QNInte.PdH2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1aXV0Y2oxBHBvcwMxBHNlY wN5bi1jaGFubmVsBHNsawNwaGlsYWRlbHBoaWE-
comments
Hey MaryClaire Dale of the AP: You should be ashamed of yourself for printing this bogus, one-sided story! Where did you get your journalism degree? Some uber-liberal college, no doubt, where they teach skewed journalism ethics. Well, guess what? We're not buying. We see through your @#$%. Instead of anger at the honorable institution of the Boy Scouts of America, we're angry at you for your agenda-driven rhetoric and at the libtards in charge of the City of Brotherly Love. They've gone back on their agreement with the BSA when the BSA DONATED the property they owned to the City decades ago. That's one "Sweetheart Deal", but Philly was the beneficiary, not the scouts. So get your facts straight and quit thinking you can lie with impunity as you hide behind your title and journalistic credentials (if we can be so kind to assume you have any). You should be fired for this garbage and so should your editor!
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Let me get this straight, parents of these young boys are Bigots,, because they dont want men that are sexually aroused by other men and boys(pedophiles) to be taking there sons on overnight stays in the mountains, without supervision for their homoseXtual practices and cravings.This is crazy that we even have to protest this ruling,,,This just gives the gays freedom and a green light to molest boys.
I encourage the boy scouts to leave any federal money alone, and have fund raisers to get money,,The Gays want to be alone with your boys,,,Lets not let that happen.
It not about Bigotry or homophobia, it about sexual perversions by gays and them wanting there inappropriate behaviors legitimized and want to decide what is right for our children..
Putting are children around gays is not a good decision,, And the gays should stay out of our business of what we want for OUR CHILDEN= OUR CHILDREN I am not surprised that homosectuals want to affiliate with the boy scouts,,That is just asking for trouble for ou young vulnerable boys and sends the wrong message to them.
The gays just look for any loophole to get to our children=boys, and this is one loophole that should remain closed.
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Man I like girls. I like woman I am HETEROSEXUAL!!! Just the fact that I have to announce to the world that I am a hound, i dig chicks, I liky the girly, would make me ineligable to take a bunch of 14 year old girls out camping.
So why should we allow a bunch of men who likkey the boys, dig the dudes, want a man hug, to go out camping with 14 year old boys? SHHEESH you freekin idiots. Ok I give up I am going to apply as a girl scout leader. Lets see how far I get when I put on the application that chicks are the way I roll, should I add a "rrrowwrr, hey baby do I make you Horny, Do I"
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Gee, sending homosexual males out camping with control over young men-- what could go wrong with that?
If the Boy Scouts lose this suit, they should tear down the building they built and give the city just what it deserves-- another vacant lot.
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Something I just thought of! Why should the city government of Philadelphia want the BSA to allow homosexuals to be scout leaders? Did some gay men ask Philadelphia to make the Boy Scouts allow them in? Did anyone in the city government ask them why they want to be scout leaders? This whole thing doesn't make sense. How many private organizations are forced or blackmailed by the government to expose their children to homosexual males. Since the leaders of Philadelphia have access to the sex offender rolls they can contact those people and ask them to babysit their children. Come on Philly leaders, do it yourselves. If you think that registered sex offenders are too risky advertise in the paper for adult male homosexuals to take care of your children for a weekend. Let's see you put up or shut up.
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Leave the Boy Scouts alone!! The purpose of the Scouts is to prepare young boys to become young men. If young gay boys want to start a group of their own, then go for it. Most parents that have straight young boys will not be upset if they are excluded from the gay boys group. It's time to just put our foot down, and say NO!!! If openly gay Leaders are allowed into the scouts, every parent should pull their young boys out...
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 02:15 PM
Obama embraces incremental response to gay issues
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100622/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_obama_gay_rights;_ylt=ApJkSnhTEu4Zh9N3e0qQmuqs0 NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlMTc***U2BHBvcwM4MwRzZWMDYWNjb3Jka W9uX3BvbGl0aWNzBHNsawNvYmFtYWVtYnJhY2U-
Pa. city fights crime with soccer, strict curfews
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100622/ap_on_re_us/us_chester_emergency;_ylt=AuVeis3yG8Hx9_0yTMTZJ8qs 0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlMTg2YWtlBHBvcwM2OQRzZWMDYWNjb3Jk aW9uX3Vfc19uZXdzBHNsawNwYWNpdHlmaWdodHM-
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 02:24 PM
The Boy Scouts are not a religious institution. They are a group for boys to get together and learn things while having fun and making friends. So, really what is the problem with a gay leader or a gay scout for that matter? Or an atheist?
For the same reason that Girl Scouts actively discourages MALE leaders; no male is allowed to be without adult female supervison at all times when the girls are present. If we go on a camp out - the men have to sleep at least 200 feet away from where the girls are sleeping and can not use the same latrine facitilies as the girls. There are other rules - for the girls protection.
If you were to implement the same rules in regard to gay male leaders and Boy Scouts it would undermine all the efforts towards team building and eliminate any attempts to be inclusive. So why bother when such steps - in order to protect the children - are completely counter productive ?
freeby4me
06-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Right, because no FEMALE would ever do anything against young males. No female teacher has ever lost her job or spent time in jail for molesting young boys. No woman in a position of authority would ever do anything wrong against young male men right.
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 06:23 PM
No ... that is why they have very specific rules regarding women leaders and Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts.
freeby4me
06-22-2010, 07:17 PM
No ... that is why they have very specific rules regarding women leaders and Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts.
and in the group we (my son and I) were in I dont see how it being a female or a male or a person who is gay would have anything to do with it.
No leader is to be alone with any child. Nothing can be said if there is always two leaders with the boys.
Its for both of their protection.
If the rules are followed, exactly how would a gay man be a big harm to the boys?
Even more so, it makes no sense to say that because a guy is gay that he must be there to be doing something bad.
Are mothers there to steal other Dads away? After all, they're attracted to men right?
Are the Dads there to check out the Den Mothers? After all, they're attracted to the Ladies.
It all comes down to the fact that they are discriminating. SCOTUS says they're allowed to. Fine and Dandy, pay the price then.
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 08:59 PM
Since BSA donated the land to the city and have paid for all the renovations should they be reimbursed ??
hblueeyes
06-22-2010, 09:21 PM
I would not mind a homosexual leader in scouting. I do mind the pediphiles. There is a huge difference.
Me
Jolie Rouge
06-22-2010, 09:33 PM
I agree in principle ... but in practice it is an entirely different world.
I personally know a BSA Leader who is gay, he is discrete and only his close friends are aware of his lifestyle. I do not have any issues because I know this man and would gladly vouch for his honor and integerity. As a policy, I agree with this stance because I can not say the same for everyone else who would apply for Leadership.
The same people who are so critical of the BSA's policy are the same ones who jump up and down when it goes badly ( the Utah lawsuit which the BSA just lost ) - so what would you suggest ??
Jolie Rouge
04-25-2012, 11:02 AM
Lesbian Cub Leader Fired for Being Gay, Fights Boy Scouts
By SUSAN DONALDSON JAMES April 25, 2012
Jennifer Tyrrell, the den leader who was "fired" by her local Cub Scout troop for being gay, said that her 7-year-old son Cruz will not remain in the national organization because of its discrimination against gay leaders and scouts.
In March, the Boy Scouts of America removed Tyrrell from her position, telling her that her sexual orientation "did not meet the high standards" of conduct set by the Boy Scouts of America "We can no longer support an organization that has these policies and we hope to get them changed," said Tyrrell. "That is our main goal."
"But Cruz is a little sad," Tyrrell added. "We loved scouting."
The boy told ABCNews.com that he had enjoyed camping and earning badges with his local Tiger Cub troop 109 since September.
The troop asked his mother to step down as leader after they told her "it was known you are gay," said Tyrrell, 32.
The Bridgeport, Ohio, mother of four has waged a campaign to bring awareness to the Boy Scout policy on Change.org. Ultimately, she said she wants the organization to accept gay leaders and scouts. Already, the petition has garnered 140,000 signatures, plus the endorsement of celebrities such as "Hunger Games" star Josh Hutcherson and Jesse Tyler Ferguson from television's "Modern Family" and Max Adler from "Glee."
"I had no idea this would take off like it has," said Tyrell, who lives with her partner of five years. Ohio does not recognize gay marriage. "It's humbling and very exciting that so many people are finally agreeing with us."
Saturday, Tyrrell and her family appeared at the GLAAD Media Awards in Los Angeles, where they were honored for taking a stand. Today, she is in New York City, making the media rounds with Cruz. "We want to get the word out," said Tyrrell, a former hardware store sales person who was laid off. Her partner, Alicia, is a registered nurse.
Tyrrell said the Boy Scouts of America had not "officially" notified her. "I have heard nothing from them," she said.
The Boy Scouts of America emailed ABCNews.com a prepared statement that said its focus is on "delivering a program of character development and leadership training."
"Scouting, and the majority of parents it serves, does not believe it is the right forum for children to become aware of the issue of sexual orientation, or engage in discussions about being gay," it said. "Rather, such complex matters should be discussed with parents, caregivers, or spiritual advisers, at the appropriate time and in the right setting."
The Boy Scouts acknowledged their policy was controversial, but added, "To disagree does not mean to disrespect and we respect everyone's right to have and express a different opinion. Scouting will continue to teach our members to treat everyone with courtesy and respect."
The organization also said that in Tyrrell's case the policy had not been followed by local leaders, but when another pack leader complained, it was enforced.
In 2008, the U.S. Supreme Court sided with the Boy Scouts of America and ruled 5-4 that the organization is exempt from state laws that bar anti-gay discrimination. The court overturned a ruling by the New Jersey Supreme Court to require a troop to readmit a longtime gay scoutmaster who had been dismissed.
The Girl Scouts of America has had a diversity policy and non-discrimination clause since 1980.
Tyrrell decided to lead Cruz's first-grade Cub Scout troop last fall. "It was a very community-oriented group of kids," she said. "They made me treasurer to get the books in order ... I found some discrepancies -- things that didn't add up."
She said she met with local representatives over the financial matters, but afterwards, the scout master called her and said, "We have to ask you to resign."
"Everyone locally knew I was gay," said Tyrell. "I was devastated. I cried for two days. Those kids were my family. All my parents were devastated."
Patty Morgan, 35, whose 7-year-old son Jordan was in Troop 109 told ABCNews.com, "I was not even aware they had a gay policy. It was very emotional for me."
Morgan also helped Tyrrell with troop activities: field trips and community service work at a soup kitchen and with the Salvation Army. "I was very upset -- she was my friend and for me, this is personal," said Morgan, who with other troop parents had participated in local protests. "I hope that it ends up changing the policy for the Boy Scouts. That's what we're all hoping for."
Tyrrell said she told her troop parents that she wasn't "abandoning" their children. "It was not my choice," she said. "I didn't want them to think I left them. I had made them a promise to follow these kids to Eagle Scout. Now I can't."
Change.org has been instrumental in other campaigns, most notably the Trayvon Martin case, which also caught the nation's attention and resulted in the arrest of George Zimmerman for the fatal shooting of the 14-year-old.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/lesbian-cub-leader-fired-scouts-son-continue-organization/story?id=16210458
If you watch the video including with this story ... it doesn't match what is stated in the article. She says that the BSA told her to leave ... but then she says they never contacted her. WHICH one ? There are rules and regulations to be followed - straight or gay - and if you will not follow them, you will be asked to leave.
Tyrrell decided to lead Cruz's first-grade Cub Scout troop last fall. "It was a very community-oriented group of kids," she said. "They made me treasurer to get the books in order ... I found some discrepancies -- things that didn't add up."
She said she met with local representatives over the financial matters, but afterwards, the scout master called her and said, "We have to ask you to resign."
"Everyone locally knew I was gay," said Tyrell. "I was devastated. I cried for two days. Those kids were my family. All my parents were devastated."
She was a Leader for a year ... and everyone "knew" she was gay ... and after she found mismanagement with the money ... then she was asked to leave. ??? Maybe is has nothing to do with your agenda and everything to do with someone "borrowing/stealing" money from the Cubs ??
She can still work with the Scouts, even if not in position as a Leader... they not not exclude the child for any reason.
comments
Hmmm... i hope this will not end up in another story of discrimination as always portray and cry foul of gays. They always fight and insist that they are right in every situation, instances or occassions. How about those who are not gays that dont want to be associated with them? Dont thay have the rights to ignore their senseless demands of discriminations?
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Another agenda story, let's get back to two days ago,when you were reporting social security and medicare goingbroke, and Obama spending helping it along.
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I suspect she is using her son as a 'hostage' to make the BSA and its supporters feel guilty for depriving him of participation. Unfortunately, there will be many supporters of Ms. Tyrrell who will not see through this selfish act and will ramp up the pressure on the BSA. Adults can sure screw up a kid's fun over matters he's too young to understand at an adult level.
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Where the BSA has a problem is when it accepts state and federal funds for some of its funding. Private groups and clubs are allowed to discriminate who they admit as members of their organizations. However, any group, organization, or club that receives any government funding should be required to following anti-discrimination practices when determining employment or membership. If the BSA wants total autonomy over how it runs its organization and who it deems appropriate for membership then they need to ensure they receive no government funding. We have freedom of association granted us under the Constitution and the First Amendment. We are allowed to choose who we associate with; right or wrong. I think that gets lost in all the rhetoric about fairness.
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This is nuts and the Scouts are right. I personally have no hostility towards homosexuals, but it is what it is.As a private organization with a very defined set of precepts, they are entitled to require those who join the organization to respect the paradigm, or dont join. Thats why this or any other organization exist. A group of people with similiar values, attitudes, and mindset get together and create a social organization so they can preserve those values and associate with people who share them. Its a fundamental civil right and freedom. Freedom of association.
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I wish she didn't pull her son out of the organization; this was a selfish act. Her views should have no bearing on the kid -- if he's happy in the Scouts, that's all that matters. The Scouts' stand is controversial and disagreeable to many but it's not criminal or immoral like, for instance, the KKK. When the kid is older, like in his teens, the mother can explain her position with him and by then he can make up his own mind whether to continue in Scouting or reject the organization altogether.
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I don't understand why people think everyone has to agree with them. The Boy Scouts aren't demanding that Ms. Tyrrell changes to a heterosexual. Why can't she accept that the Boy Scouts have the right to their views just as she has the right to her views?
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Wait, you mean to tell me that she wasn't aware of the Boy Scouts' stance on homosexuality? Really?!? On the flip side of that, at least she won't be molesting any of the kids like some of the heterosexual leaders have done.
Jolie Rouge
05-30-2012, 07:51 PM
Scout challenges anti-gay policy of Boy Scouts of America
By Barbara Liston | Reuters – 3 hrs ago.
ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - An Eagle Scout known for his defense of same-sex civil unions delivered on Wednesday a petition signed by 275,000 people to the Boy Scouts of America demanding an end to the group's exclusion of gays. Zach Wahls, a 20-year-old engineering student at the University of Iowa who attained the organization's highest rank of Eagle Scout, has two lesbian mothers. He became an Internet sensation in January 2011 when his address to the Iowa House of Representatives supporting gay civil unions logged more than 2.5 million views on YouTube.
Dressed in full Eagle Scout regalia, he hand-delivered cardboard boxes containing 275,000 signed petitions to Boy Scouts of America leaders attending their national board meeting at Gaylord Palms, an Orlando-area resort and convention center. The petition, challenging the century-old Scouts' policies against gay youth and leaders, was launched April 17 by Jane Tyrrell on Change.org, the web-based social change platform. It urges the Scouts to reinstate Tyrrell, a 32-year-old lesbian mother from the small town of Bridgeport, Ohio, who was ousted as a Scout den leader and treasurer in April because of a policy that prohibits gays from being members or leaders of one of America's largest youth organizations.
Wahls told reporters thousands of current and former scouts signed the petitions, with some posting comments contending that anti-gay policies hurt the organization and demean their scouting achievements. "They (the petitioners) are ready for progress. We are ready for this progress," Wahls said. "I refuse to stand by idly as it (Boy Scouts) forfeits its cultural relevancy at the very moment this country needs it most."
Soon after Wahls met behind closed doors with two Scout board members, the organization signaled that it may fail to deliver on the Scouts' longstanding promise to "always be prepared," however, at least when it comes to policy change. "Today, Scouting officials accepted signatures from an online petition and shared the purpose of its membership policy," the Boy Scouts said in a statement. "Scouting maintains that its youth development program is not the appropriate environment to introduce or discuss, in any way, same-sex attraction," the statement said.
Deron Smith, the Scouts public relations director, laid out the Scouts' policy on homosexuality in a subsequent email to Reuters.
"DISTRACTION TO THE MISSION"
"While the BSA does not proactively inquire about sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA," he said. "Our supporters do not see Scouting as the right environment to reconcile divergent viewpoints on societal issues and realize a good partnership does not require full agreement on every issue," Smith added. "By focusing on the goals that unite us rather than on one issue that divides us we are able to accomplish incredible things for young people."
The Boy Scouts of America in 2000 won a 5-4 U.S. Supreme Court ruling allowing the organization to ban gays whose conduct, the Boy Scouts argued, violated its values. The Boy Scouts of America claimed more than 1 million adult volunteers at the end of 2011. It was founded in 1910 as part of the international Scout movement established in Britain by General Robert Baden-Powell.
Rex Tillerson, chairman and chief executive of Exxon Mobil Corp, was due to step down as the national president of the Boy Scouts of America on Thursday. He was to be succeeded by Wayne Perry, a minority owner of the Seattle Mariners baseball team and former vice chairman of AT&T Wireless Services. Smith, who said he was unable to provide a list of the Boy Scouts' major sponsors, also said he was unable to say how many cases there had been over the years involving people who were barred or expelled from the organization because of their sexual orientation but they were "extremely rare."
http://news.yahoo.com/scout-challenges-anti-gay-policy-boy-scouts-america-232059397.html
comments
Whether or not you believe being gay is some kind of sin or abomination or whatever, why should ANY organization change its membership policies, and why would ANYONE want them to? If you don't like the Boy Scouts' policy of no gay members, don't JOIN the Boy Scouts. If you don't like the Catholic church's stance on abortion, go to a different church! What the heck is the problem?
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Hey, if you don't like the Boy Scouts policies, then start your own group. They have every right in the world, or at least country, to be exclusive. Start a gays scouts of America if you don't like it.
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Sorry, but I just do not understand why some people go to such great lengths to force themselves upon other people who do not want to associate with them. Is acceptence to the BSA absolutly essential to ones success and happiness in this country?
Jolie Rouge
01-28-2013, 03:46 PM
Boy Scouts of America considering dropping its ban on gay members
By Greg Norman - Published January 28, 2013
The Boy Scouts of America is considering dropping a longtime ban on gay members, according to a spokesman.
“The BSA is discussing potentially removing the national membership restriction regarding sexual orientation,'' spokesman Deron Smith said in a statement obtained by FoxNews.com. "This would mean there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation, but that the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with their organization’s mission, principles or religious beliefs."
Smith added that the youth development organization has been in contact with families to determine its best interests.
"BSA members and parents would be able to choose a local unit which best meets the needs of their families," he said.
If the change is approved, it could be announced as early as next Wednesday after a BSA national board meeting, the Associated Press reports.
The BSA, which was founded in 1910, has also excluded atheists throughout its existence. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of the BSA's ban on gay members in 2000.
More than 2.6 million scouts and 1 million adults were involved in the BSA in 2012, according to its website.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/28/boy-scouts-america-considering-dropping-its-ban-on-gay-members/?test=latestnews#ixzz2JJSnmZlt
Boy Scouts of America
Monday, Jan. 28, 2013
Attributable to: Deron Smith, Director of Public Relations
“For more than 100 years, Scouting’s focus has been on working together to deliver the nation’s foremost youth program of character development and values-based leadership training. Scouting has always been in an ongoing dialogue with the Scouting family to determine what is in the best interest of the organization and the young people we serve.
“Currently, the BSA is discussing potentially removing the national membership restriction regarding sexual orientation. This would mean there would no longer be any national policy regarding sexual orientation, and the chartered organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting would accept membership and select leaders consistent with each organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs. BSA members and parents would be able to choose a local unit that best meets the needs of their families.
“The policy change under discussion would allow the religious, civic, or educational organizations that oversee and deliver Scouting to determine how to address this issue. The Boy Scouts would not, under any circumstances, dictate a position to units, members, or parents. Under this proposed policy, the BSA would not require any chartered organization to act in ways inconsistent with that organization’s mission, principles, or religious beliefs.”
http://www.scouting.org/MembershipPolicy.aspx
Jolie Rouge
03-18-2013, 07:17 PM
Madonna Criticizes Boy Scouts at GLAAD Awards
Mar 18, 2013 1:18pm
(Image Credit: Larry Busacca/Getty Images)
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Entertainment/gty_madonna_boy_scout_glaad_thg_130318_wblog.jpg
Madonna is the latest artist to criticize the Boy Scouts’ ban on gays, and she did so in a colorful way, appearing in a Boy Scout uniform at the GLAAD Media Awards this weekend.
At the awards, sponsored by the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation Saturday in New York City, Madonna, there to present an award to talk-show host and CNN-anchor Anderson Cooper, joked on stage that she wanted to join the Boy Scouts but was rejected. “I think that’s f—ed up,” she said. “I can build a fire. I know how to pitch a tent. I have a very good sense of direction. I can rescue kittens from trees.”
Madonna subsequently declared, “I think they should change their stupid rules.”
The group last month decided to delay its vote on whether to lift the ban on gays until May to allow for more time to review the policy. Carly Rae Jepsen and Train recently pulled out of the Boy Scout Jamboree because of the organization’s stance on gays.
Madonna didn’t just address the Boy Scouts at GLAAD’s awards show. She also spoke out against bullying, discrimination and acts of violence. “I can’t take this sh– anymore,” she said. “That is why I want to start a revolution. It’s 2013, people. We live in America, land of the free, home of the brave? That’s a question, not a statement.”
Madonna presented Cooper with the Vito Russo Award, given to “openly lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender media professionals who have made a significant difference in promoting equality.”
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2013/03/madonna-criticizes-boy-scouts-at-glaad-awards/
comments
Very brave ... why don't they demand that Muslim countries treat gays differently - as they tend to put them to DEATH. Way more impressive to hassle the scouts. Carly Rae and Train "canceled" their appearence - due to a rule that has been in place for over 100 years. Madonna wore our uniform as a costume... id' be more impressed if she had bothered to get it done correctly.
1. Most leaders on the Troop level are not so dogmatic and closed minded. In most troops there is a sort of don’t-ask-don’t-tell mentality. We’re here for the boys and we welcome anyone who wants to join.
2. There are a few on the local level who have taken up the role of witch-hunter, who actively seek to out atheists and gays. The rest of us try to protect the kids from them (the witch-hunters, not atheists and gays).
3. Boy Scouts is still a great program to teach boys responsibility, self-reliance, and the habits of leadership and serving others. Boy Scouts is solid, even if the National Council is still strugging to move into the 20th Century (not a typo)
4. It’s taken a lot for National Council to even come to a place where they recognize that institutionalized bigotry is hurting the movement. Let’s give them a little credit for exploring the idea of change, and give them a little room to make a decision. Everybody piling on with hate and scorn is not helping.
Not all gays are pedophiles and not all pedophiles are gay.
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We live in America...
No - YOU moved to London. WE live in America.
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Just asking?
This nut in a fake Boy scouts uniform will get what done. The only thing the Boy Scouts of America will do once they see that photo is probably crap on themselves from laughing too hard. This woman has been a joke since the 1980′s and now, 30 years later, is making herself into more of a joke.
Wonder what shock crap she will pull next week since that is all she is about. lol
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Score a big fat ZERO for Madona’s little statement to the BSA….cause what she’s wearing is the scarf of the CUB scout’s Wolf den….in other words the second grade group……..here’s a thought…next time do some research before trying to make that unspoken gib…
This fool does not have what it takes to be a Boy Scout. Besides, that get-up she’s wearing is more like a Cub Scout uniform and she doesn’t pack the gear to be one of those either!
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I think we’ve got our next contestant for “Are You Tougher Than A Boyscout”.
“I can build a fire. I know how to pitch a tent. I have a very good sense of direction. I can rescue kittens from trees.”
Prove it, Golden Girl! Let’s see what you got!
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Girls are welcome to join a Venture Troop. Boyscouts has a lot to offer girls:
While Girl Scouts offers opportunities to develop leadership and habits of community service, they haven’t really covered the areas of skills development and adventure to the extent that our merit badge system does. Girl Scouts can learn basic camping skills, horseback riding, first aid, cooking etc. But if you want to do high adventure stuff like week-long mountainbike camping in the High Sierras, or sailing as crew on a huge square-rigger ship, you gotta go Boy Scouts.
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I’m sorry, first of all, she looks like a damn fool, the patches are in the wrong spots, if she is trying to make a statement then she needs to do her research. Second of all, its not as simple as everyone is making it seem, I wish it was but its not. I’m not saying that gays shouldn’t be allowed in scouts, but it pisses me off when people that aren’t in Boy Scouts make statements like this and they don’t know the dynamics of the organization, there is more to making the decision than just “is it right or wrong”. Also, I don’t think a policy enforced by national should over shadow how hard all the Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, and Venturers are working to do good things in the community.
Jolie Rouge
03-26-2013, 08:52 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/s480x480/10185_10151510926931178_962077045_n.jpg
The Boy Scouts Are A Bright Spot In a Troubled Society
The following is a speech I made at a fundraiser for the Boy Scouts of America on March 20, 2013
I thank you for inviting me.
I am deeply concerned about the youth of today.
In my lifetime, society has changed from a culture of nuclear families who worked out their own problems among themselves without the help of psychologists and counselors, where discipline was maintained and authority was respected and children were instilled with a life long work ethic and sense of patriotism.
Where Almighty God was acknowledged as the Creator and Ruler of the universe and everything in it, and the affairs of mankind were molded around the basic tenants of His word.
A time when words like "honor" and "duty" were taken seriously and a man's given word meant more than any airtight contract the best lawyers could draw up.
Today our schools are forbidden to even acknowledge the existence of God or Jesus Christ and morals have become a movable feast of "anything goes" and "if it feels good, do it."
According to the thinking of some, even the timeless message of the Holy Bible should be altered to keep up with the times and the Constitution, the very bedrock of American freedom, should be a living document, changed and amended to accommodate the morals and requirements of changing times.
Our national media outlets have become cesspools where immoral living is celebrated and the name of Almighty God is taken in vain.
Temptation for the youth of America is varied and attractive and at face value offers no glimpse of the misery they lead to.
That's why what you're doing here today is ultra important, to support an organization which is still dedicated to helping a young man place his feet on the paths of righteousness, where service to others and personal responsibility are still taken seriously and the name of God is still used and respected.
Listen:
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
And to obey the Scout law
To help other people at all times
To keep myself physically strong
Mentally awake and morally straight
Having been a Boy Scout in my youth, I have recited the Scout Oath many times, but I wonder if way back then I really realized what I was saying as I repeated it.
Have you ever taken the oath phrase by phrase and stopped to think just how solemn and meaningful it really is?
On my honor - Which means your word, your vow, a sacred trust. Your honor is the most precious thing you'll ever have and something nobody can ever take away from you, only you can destroy it.
I will do my best - In other words, I will go the extra mile, burn the midnight oil, stretch myself to the limits of my strength and endurance, expend my last ounce of energy if necessary, because anything less would not be my best.
To do my duty - Duty is what is required of you, duty is paying back a debt all human beings owe, duty is doing what you know is right, no matter how hard it becomes.
To God - In other words, you're promising to serve our Creator to whom we owe every beat of our heart and every breath we take, there is no higher calling than doing our duty to God.
And my country - Take it from someone who has traveled a good part of the world when I say that beyond a doubt, you live in the greatest nation the world has ever known, with more freedom and more opportunity than any other people on earth and our duty to our country is to make sure it stays that way.
To obey the scout law - By being trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.
To help other people at all times - That means being there for friends and strangers any time, any place, anywhere and to the best of your ability devote yourself to the needs of others.
To keep myself physically strong - To stay at the top of my game, healthy, motivated and rested, ready to tackle whatever comes along with enthusiasm and energy and stay with it until it's finished.
Mentally awake - To be totally cognizant of what is going on around me, to practice situational awareness and to read between the lines if necessary.
And morally straight - Good morals are what you practice when nobody is looking,
The Boy Scout Oath is a commitment to excellence, a serious promise to take responsibility for your own life and the well being of others, to set examples for others to admire and aspire to, the kind of person who will make this world a better place.
I have the greatest respect and admiration for the Boy Scouts and I thank them for having a positive influence on my life. The Scouts and their mission and integrity are a bright spot in a troubled society and it's our place to support and protect them from those who would change this honored institution.
And I thank you for allowing me to be a part of that effort.
God Bless America - God Bless the Boy Scouts of America.
Thank you.
What do you think?
Pray for our troops and the peace of Jerusalem.
Charlie Daniels
http://cnsnews.com/blog/charlie-daniels/boy-scouts-are-bright-spot-troubled-society
Jolie Rouge
05-13-2013, 09:38 AM
Good Boy Scouts don't need God
by Tom Krattenmaker, USA TODAY
Published: 05/12/2013 04:47pm
http://m.usatoday.com/apps/image?imageUrl=http://www.gannett-cdn.com/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2013/05/12/ap_angels_mariners_baseball_55660517-16_9.jpg&width=480
Boy Scouts salute the flag as they stand at attention on the field before a baseball game between the Los Angeles and Seattle Mariners last month in Seattle.
Depending on what happens at the Boy Scouts' national meeting this month, gay Scouts might soon be accepted into the venerable organization. Even then, there will remain a large and growing group of Americans still barred by the Boy Scouts.
When will the Boy Scouts accept the non-religious?
The Boy Scouts of America recognizes an impressive range of religious affiliations that qualify one as "reverent" and, thus, eligible to participate. Two dozen varieties of Christianity get the nod, plus Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Bahai'ism and more. However, the non-religious are not welcome, and that poses a problem the Boy Scouts should address in addition to the sexual orientation question drawing so much attention.
Undergirding the Boy Scouts' ban is the dubious premise that people cannot be moral without religious belief. It's an assumption that non-believers are wisely challenging as the public face of atheism moves away from angry anti-religious diatribes, typified by the late Christopher Hitchens, toward a positive expression of non-belief summed up by the pithy phrase "good without God."
Can atheists be good Scouts? Neil Polzin's story suggests a resounding "yes." Polzin, now 29, contributed to a successful life-and-death rescue operation during a Boy Scouts backpacking trip when he was 13. He later became an Eagle Scout and an aquatics program director as an adult. In 2009, as he tells it, a rival who wanted his job made an issue of the fact that Polzin is an atheist. Hoping to clear the air, Polzin notified his regional council of his atheism — and was unceremoniously booted.
One would think that his long track record would have proved his skill and moral worthiness by that point. But all the years of good Scouting and service were erased by a single dreaded word: atheist.
Margaret Downey, president of the Freethought Society (and the mother of a young man who was barred from the Scouts as a boy), is leveraging the new focus on Boy Scout inclusion policies to prompt a fresh look at its ban on atheists. Downey welcomes the new momentum for inclusion of gay Scouts. Even so, she asks, why no consideration of non-believing boys, too? "There is no question that people can be good without a god belief," Downey says. The Boy Scouts offer a great program, she adds, "yet their bigoted membership policies are harmful."
Welcoming non-believers might seem a difficult bridge to cross for the Boy Scouts and traditionalists who defend current membership requirements. Wouldn't acceptance of atheists force revisions to the Boy Scout Oath, which pledges duty to God and country? Why should a private, voluntary organization have to do that, particularly when most Scout troops are chartered by churches?
These and other obstacles can be navigated through nuance, common sense and mutual respect. Let the churches that charter Scout troops adopt the attitude that churches usually adopt when it comes to non-believers: Welcome them in the hope of having a positive influence on them. Require atheist Scouts to respect the religion of their fellow Scouts, leaders and sponsors, with the assurance that their non-belief will be respected in kind. And, as Downey suggests, an additional "o" can go a long way; let the atheist Scout pledge his devotion to "good" rather than "God."
Ultimately, it would be self-defeating for the Boy Scouts to forfeit the chance to spread Scouting skills and values among the population of people who identify as atheist, agnostic, or otherwise not religious. More and more youths are growing up in non-religious homes; why would the organization squander the opportunity to serve and influence these boys?
Yes, as a private association, the Boy Scouts have a right to decide for themselves who's in and who's out. But just because they can exclude atheists doesn't mean they should.
"There are millions of young, secular Americans committed to civic duty, community service and personal improvement," says August Brunsman, executive director of the Secular Student Alliance. "They're looking to serve their country alongside their religious friends, and it's long past time for the Boy Scouts to wake up and let these admirable young men serve."
It's the right thing to do. And here's the bonus: Once the Boy Scouts open up to non-believers, they're going to discover they have a lot to contribute — just as they've been contributing all along.
http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/2153827
Jolie Rouge
05-13-2013, 09:39 AM
comments
I think the more important question is why can't the Boy Scouts be allowed to set their own criteria to be a member? They're not a public institution. Why do they have to change to appease others? Let them stand or fall on their own merits.
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Q: why can't the Boy Scouts be allowed to set their own criteria to be a member?
A: They can but we can call them out for it. They are a bigoted organization. The KKK gets to set their own criteria too, but we don't let them operate on our nations military bases. We should kick the scouts out too.
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James Keener Someone who doesn't agree with you is a bigot? Right? Sorry, there is no comparison with The KKK and The BSA. The BSA has NOT changed its morality nor its footing in its over 100 years of existence. Perhaps you should practice what you preach and try to be a bit more 'tolerant' yourself!
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The mainstream media will do anything to bash Christians and any institution that fails to fall in lockstep with their liberal agenda.
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I simply do not understand why the big deal. Teaching young men to be great Father's of Good Moral Character is our jobs. Being Christian is a Choice as is anything else in America. By letting different organizations support Troops such as LDS groups etc. we are allowing everyone to worship in their own way. All great Nations decayed from within, if we aren't careful and don't have someone to stand up then we face the same woes as all great nations before us.
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Of course being religious is a "choice". Thats why so many parents demand their children be in situations where prayers are mandatory. Choice indeed.
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Of course, being atheist is a "choice." That's why so many atheists demand that all children be in situations where only an anti-religious voice can be heard. Choice indeed?
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What part of private organization does the media not understand?
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I was a boy scout in the 70's. The vast majority of scouters and parents did NOT see Scouting as a religious organization, while a majority of scouts did attend a church. Parents saw scouting formative for positive life skills and values.
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It is a tactic that ultra-liberals have learned to use a long time ago and conservatives have foolishly allowed themselves to be undone by; compromise now and win the rest later. It is a win-win for them. They never lose, they just don't win everything yet. If the BSA gives in now on the issue of sexual orientation for boys soon all of their pillars will fall because the precedent of not being committe will have been set.
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What does an outsider know about what scouts do or do not need? Go back and read Lord Baden Powell's thoughts on the matter. Too bad GSUSA didn't do that. And my tax dollars go plenty of places I'd rather they didn't... so what? Get over your intolerance.
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Who establishes what IS moral? Based on the 10 commandments? The Bible has been the moral compass for behavior. It incorporates giving undeserved love, kindness, grace, and forgiveness. It promotes loyalty. It inspires. What secular publication does that. Secularism IS a faith stance as well.
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If they want to limit membership to those who believe in god and omit gays that's their business whether I agree with them or not. As far as granting them access to public facilities the government has no right to allow such access based on personal beliefs. Our constitution specifically protects religious freedom and most of the worlds religion teach homosexuality is a sin.
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The BSA if founded based on a belief in a God. You think that should stop. How about you create an atheist club of your own and run it as you see fit. BSA is a private club and sets its own rules. Public schools and churches give space for the meetings. Legal.
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If you don't like scouts, join another organization, 4-H perhaps; as the article clearly pointed out, gays and atheists can serve the community without being in Scouts. There are plenty other organizations out there, heck you can even start your own gay atheist camping club if you wish, it is America after all. The only reason Atheists and gays want in Scouts is to push a political agenda to infiltrate and degrade any organization that is considered to support conservative family values. These activists have absolutely zero interest in the well being of these kids. If the true issue is acceptance, why can't gays and atheists accept that religious people want to be in a club where they can fellowship as they see fit? Scouting has ALWAYS been committed to the belief in a higher being and the personal rewards that come with it. If you don't have a personal relationship with God than you will never understand that. If you are an atheist or gay than that is your thing, fine, to each his own. It is my preference (and the majority of the Scouting Communities opinion as shown in BSA'a own studies) to keep myself and my kids away from those lifestyles as I should be able to do as a parent.
In Scouting, religion is presented in a totally non-sectarian way and is tailored to the needs and desires of the group but the application states that you must believe in God to be a member. In Scouting we pray together as a group and we recognize that there are forces in the universe that simply cannot be explained by Science; most Atheists I've talked to would call me stupid for saying that. Yet, it is perfectly acceptable for Science on the one hand to cover a jar and teach no such thing as spontaneous generation, then claim that we all came from a cloud of dust without ever offering where the dust came from. That sounds like Faith to me, the religion of Science. If the world would just acknowledge that is what much of so called science is, more faith than empirical evidence, than perhaps we could admit Atheists into Scouting. I'm speaking facetiously of course.
And as far as admitting openly gay youths into scouting, if you have no problem with an openly gay 17 year old camping with a 12 year old boy then you probably have no issue with coed youth doing ANYTHING and EVERYTHING together which is disturbing. Children need to be shielded from things that are meant for adults; and abstinence, not sexual preference, is the only sexual agenda that should be promoted for children under the age of 18. They have the next 70 years to figure the rest out with conversations meant for a more mature mind.
Jolie Rouge
05-14-2013, 09:48 AM
Prudent Compromise or Fatal Concession?
Understanding the Risks of Changing Boy Scouts of America's Membership Policies
Video at link http://www.heritage.org/events/2013/05/boy-scouts
Delegates to Boy Scouts of America's National Council head to Texas later this month for the National Annual Meeting where they will vote on a proposed change to BSA membership standards. Many in Scouting, and many friends of Scouting throughout America, are raising serious concerns about the immediate and long-term effects that change would have on the future of Scouting, its programs and its core mission.
Join us for a discussion of the proposed change in Scouting membership policies, why it has many deeply concerned, and why this change is not in the best interests of Scouting or its higher purposes of teaching, mentoring and building the character of America’s youth.
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