What are your favorite lies the Bush Administration has told and been caught in?

[mesue]

My favorite is the one I saw the President Bush tell recently in an interview in Latin America. He was asked about the issue of whether the U.S. tortures. His answer was and emphatic, no we do not torture.

But yet:
The vice president, is lobbying for laws on torture, to not ban torture, but to allow the use of torture. Ghost detainees or POWs with no record we have them in custody (no papers filed on them or their identity or their even being in such a facility) are subjected to unknown methods of interrogation in other countries where we have set up facilities. These prisoners are loaded onto planes and flown to countries where torture has been reportedly used. So technically one could say we are now outsourcing torture.

Cheney is not alone on this push to allow the use fo torture. President Bush has been doing his own part to promote the use of torture by threatening to cast the first veto of his presidency if Congress doesn't toss out a bill amendment, written by John McCain and passed by the Senate, banning the cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of prisoners. But yet the man stands there and says we don't torture.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/11/157256&mode=thread&tid=25

the Washington Post revealed new details about a network of secret overseas prisons run by the CIA. And it came two weeks after Vice President Dick Cheney met with Senator John McCain to urge him to exempt the CIA from a proposed law to bar cruel and degrading treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody. The editors of The Washington Post responded to Cheney’s request by describing him as “Vice President for Torture.”
On Thursday, Senator John McCain, who survived torture as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War, spoke out against torture and said the Abu Ghraib scandal has enormously harmed the country.

And then this from Human Rights watch
http://www.hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_torture

[Bliss]

Do you want a Bush doll for x-mas? I'm kind of getting the impression you have a thing for him as much as he occupies your thoughts. ;) I doubt his wife talks about him as much as you do. :D :p

[mesue]

Its not him that occupies my mind but his actions that are costing so many so much. So I'm afraid I will have to turn you down on that one but if you happen to have any Tom Sellick dolls lying around by all means send me one.

[tngirl]

Do you want a Bush doll for x-mas? I'm kind of getting the impression you have a thing for him as much as he occupies your thoughts. ;) I doubt his wife talks about him as much as you do. :D :p


Hey Bliss, I'll share the expense with with you. :D ROFLMAO

[tngirl]

What is torture? Do you remember Manuel Noriega? Remember how they played the music up loud in order to drive him out? Well, that would be considered torture.

I am not into the pulling skin off or yanking out fingernail type torture, but I do support proven methods of getting information in the time of war. This includes intimadation methods and yes, humiliation. I would rather have lives of innocents saved than to worry about the well being of an enemy combatant.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Hey, I'll take a Bush doll....so I can put pins in his eyes.

[jdfan]

My favorite is the one I saw the President Bush tell recently in an interview in Latin America. He was asked about the issue of whether the U.S. tortures. His answer was and emphatic, no we do not torture.

But yet:
The vice president, is lobbying for laws on torture, to not ban torture, but to allow the use of torture. Ghost detainees or POWs with no record we have them in custody (no papers filed on them or their identity or their even being in such a facility) are subjected to unknown methods of interrogation in other countries where we have set up facilities. These prisoners are loaded onto planes and flown to countries where torture has been reportedly used. So technically one could say we are now outsourcing torture.

Cheney is not alone on this push to allow the use fo torture. President Bush has been doing his own part to promote the use of torture by threatening to cast the first veto of his presidency if Congress doesn't toss out a bill amendment, written by John McCain and passed by the Senate, banning the cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of prisoners. But yet the man stands there and says we don't torture.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/11/157256&mode=thread&tid=25

the Washington Post revealed new details about a network of secret overseas prisons run by the CIA. And it came two weeks after Vice President Dick Cheney met with Senator John McCain to urge him to exempt the CIA from a proposed law to bar cruel and degrading treatment of prisoners in U.S. custody. The editors of The Washington Post responded to Cheney’s request by describing him as “Vice President for Torture.”
On Thursday, Senator John McCain, who survived torture as a prisoner of war during the Vietnam War, spoke out against torture and said the Abu Ghraib scandal has enormously harmed the country.

And then this from Human Rights watch
http://www.hrw.org/doc/?t=usa_torture


This is so funny. I went to the website with Democracy NOW....They are left wing...lol. The LA times calls it leftwing. Sure is good we have all these watchdogs that you prefer to read instead of trying to give truth a try. Where are these folks getting all this "secret" information? The HRW is going on an article posted by the Washington Post. Now they are trying to prove world involvement in this issue. Wow, this sure takes the stress off Annan and the UN involvement in this mess and other messes in the world. "Human Rights Watch knows the names of 23 high-level suspects being held secretly by U.S. personnel at undisclosed locations." DUH, if their commrades know where they are wouldn't they try to break them out? I am going to suggest that someone takes the lead and start listening to aljazeer (SP). You need to start finding out where all this information comes from. If this is an American that is leaking all this info, I think it is treason. In the end, left wing is being led by unsupported propaganda. I bet if Bin Laden was on one of those planes we wouldn't be having this conversation. How does this watch group know who and what are on these military transports. Because they say they know? Bill of Laden? Spying? Spying supported with what government? HMMMM....

[JKATHERINE]

Hey, I'll take a Bush doll....so I can put pins in his eyes.


That's what I was thinking....voodoo doll! lol

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

I am NOOOOO Bush fan.So yup a voodoo doll,lol or like on Skeleton key Hoodoo, swap his brain with someone who is actually smart

[adorkablex]

I am NOOOOO Bush fan.So yup a voodoo doll,lol or like on Skeleton key Hoodoo, swap his brain with someone who is actually smart


I'm all for it :D

[mesue]

This is so funny. I went to the website with Democracy NOW....They are left wing...lol. The LA times calls it leftwing. Sure is good we have all these watchdogs that you prefer to read instead of trying to give truth a try. Where are these folks getting all this "secret" information? The HRW is going on an article posted by the Washington Post. Now they are trying to prove world involvement in this issue. Wow, this sure takes the stress off Annan and the UN involvement in this mess and other messes in the world. "Human Rights Watch knows the names of 23 high-level suspects being held secretly by U.S. personnel at undisclosed locations." DUH, if their commrades know where they are wouldn't they try to break them out? I am going to suggest that someone takes the lead and start listening to aljazeer (SP). You need to start finding out where all this information comes from. If this is an American that is leaking all this info, I think it is treason. In the end, left wing is being led by unsupported propaganda. I bet if Bin Laden was on one of those planes we wouldn't be having this conversation. How does this watch group know who and what are on these military transports. Because they say they know? Bill of Laden? Spying? Spying supported with what government? HMMMM....
First thing, I want to address is you say, "You need to start finding out where all this information comes from. If this is an American that is leaking all this info, I think it is treason."

So Libby a member of the Bush Administration is being indicted for his participation in leaking a covert CIA operatives name, Rove another member of the Bush Administration is most certainly involved. Unconfirmed reports are that Cheney and Bush might be involved, if anyone of them is proven to have been involved in leaking this info should they, in your opinion, be tried for treason?

Now we both know Cheney and the President are wanting to legalize torture. I base that idea on the fact that cheney is lobbying for torture and Bush has threatened to veto a bill that has an amendment in it against torture.

What I find most interesting is that you are not angry about your government, who will tell other countries that torture is bad and then lobby for it to be legalized? No you are angry that reports of secret CIA prisons came out, reports of torture but your anger is directed at those who gave away the info about it and angry at the ones reporting it.

Here is a link about how they the Human Rights organization find out some of their info
http://www.derechos.org/human-rights/manual.htm

But there are plenty of reports on the use of prisons over seas being used for detainees and about the torture of detainees. Including in the Washington Post.

Well since you seem to be all for torture how much torture is acceptable to you and what qualifies as torture?
Is the raping of children, ok? Should we have our people in charge of belting out the torture document it by filming it? After all one never knows what kind of info a child being raped or sodomized might yell out?
What about the raping of women detainees, is that accceptable? Should we film that also?
What about the raping of men, their being put in humiliating poses, being forced to masturbate while being filmed, is that acceptable to you?
What about being beaten to the point of needing medical care? There are even some cases where detainees have been beaten and died as a result of their injuries?
What about forcing parents to watch while their children are being tortured? Is that acceptable?
What about waterboarding? Is that acceptable?
What about being lined up naked with other prisoners and having guns fired over your head and maybe empty guns put up to your temple and fired? Would you think this practice was ok? Would you laugh when the detainees lost control of their bladder and bowels? Would you film this also?
What about being forced to endure freezing temperatures to the point of nearly freezing, Is that acceptable to you?
You seem to feel it is acceptable to torture, so I am asking what you see as accepatable, BTW all of the above questions come from what I have read has been done to some detainees and I might also add these detainees have not been officially charged with anything, they are being held without the right to a lawyer of any legal recourse. While I am sure there are some detainees who are involved in terrible things others are there for various reasons. One guy was arrested for having a shovel and a cell phone in his car?
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040510fa_fact
The Taguba study noted that more than sixty per cent of the civilian inmates at Abu Ghraib were deemed not to be a threat to society, which should have enabled them to be released. More on Democracy Now later!

[Bliss]

Hahahaha! Nah, I don't have Ol' Tom Selleck laying around. :p If I happen across a bobble head version, I'll let you know...LOL ;)


Now, now, now....Poke pins in poor bush's eyes. How cruel! Hahaha! :eek: :p


BTW; Sorry for throwing your thread off course. MeSue! :D

[tngirl]

You left one out mesue...how about sawing off someone's head with a dull machete while filming it?

[jdfan]

Mesue says: Well since you seem to be all for torture how much torture is acceptable to you and what qualifies as torture?
Is the raping of children, ok? Should we have our people in charge of belting out the torture document it by filming it? After all one never knows what kind of info a child being raped or sodomized might yell out?
What about the raping of women detainees, is that accceptable? Should we film that also?
What about the raping of men, their being put in humiliating poses, being forced to masturbate while being filmed, is that acceptable to you?
What about being beaten to the point of needing medical care? There are even some cases where detainees have been beaten and died as a result of their injuries?
What about forcing parents to watch while their children are being tortured? Is that acceptable?
What about waterboarding? Is that acceptable?
What about being lined up naked with other prisoners and having guns fired over your head and maybe empty guns put up to your temple and fired? Would you think this practice was ok? Would you laugh when the detainees lost control of their bladder and bowels? Would you film this also?
What about being forced to endure freezing temperatures to the point of nearly freezing, Is that acceptable to you?
You seem to feel it is acceptable to torture, so I am asking what you see as accepatable, BTW all of the above questions come from what I have read has been done to some detainees and I might also add these detainees have not been officially charged with anything, they are being held without the right to a lawyer of any legal recourse. While I am sure there are some detainees who are involved in terrible things others are there for various reasons.

Do you have me confused with someone else? Where is it that I said that I was for torture? Where do you get off lecturing me about torture? You can go on your tirades with someone else. If you feel this strongly about something then do something about it... Torture is not limited to one place in this world. Hope you feel better but please address the right person so that they can respond to your belligerent attitude.

[jdfan]

TO MESUE: I read your post again. So this isn't your government? HMMMM... You can really twist things around can't you? You once again want to throw out leftist reports without sitting back and getting the real facts. Quick to throw the stones too. Everyone you disagree with cannot have a logical conversation in this forum with you. You retaliate with outbursts of anger towards other people. You are a trip. I understand that the lady in question was inoperative at the time "someone" revealed the info. There is more behind this story than you are willing to accept or even listen to. Let the trial take place and the information come out and then find someone guilty. Isn't that the American thing to do?

[firechic]

He IS our president..........deal with it. Who among you is perfect, or has NEVER told a lie?

[Bliss]

You left one out mesue...how about sawing off someone's head with a dull machete while filming it?

I noticed not to many made a stink about it. {cough** It wasn't the "American's" doing it.

People made more of a fuss over the detainee's getting photographed, than when American's & others were being decapitated. :rolleyes:

[mesue]

TO MESUE: I read your post again. So this isn't your government? HMMMM... You can really twist things around can't you? You once again want to throw out leftist reports without sitting back and getting the real facts. Quick to throw the stones too. Everyone you disagree with cannot have a logical conversation in this forum with you. You retaliate with outbursts of anger towards other people. You are a trip. I understand that the lady in question was inoperative at the time "someone" revealed the info. There is more behind this story than you are willing to accept or even listen to. Let the trial take place and the information come out and then find someone guilty. Isn't that the American thing to do?
It is my government and that is why I am angry that they are supporting torture and that detainees are getting tortured. As for being angry at you and having an outburst of anger, not so, I merely listed a list of questions asking exactly where you draw the line on torture.
When I read you post your main concern seemed to be the fact that the news about the secret prisons leaked out not the fact that they were torturing people or that Cheney and others are lobbying for the right to torture, so it seemed likely that you are all for what the government was doing.

As for the lady in question, I assume you are talking about Valerie Plame, she was at the time the leak came out considered a covert operative agent, meaning she had a cover job and was unknown as a CIA agent, but this explains it better than I can

http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/7/13/04720/9340
A few of my classmates, and Valerie was one of these, became a non-official cover officer. That meant she agreed to operate overseas without the protection of a diplomatic passport. If caught in that status she would have been executed.


The lies by people like Victoria Toensing, Representative Peter King, and P. J. O'Rourke insist that Valerie was nothing, just a desk jockey. Yet, until Robert Novak betrayed her she was still undercover and the company that was her front was still a secret to the world. When Novak outed Valerie he also compromised her company and every individual overseas who had been in contact with that company and with her.

You keep referring to me being left wing or using leftist websites to make my point and the website Democracy Now being a leftist website. Democracy now is a 1 hour news program one can watch on Free Speech tv or FSTV, this tv channel is totally funded by viewers not one dime comes from the government or corporate sponsors. This program can also be accessed and viewed online and also can be wwatched on LINK.
These people give the government both democrat and republican just as harder time and are much more fair and balanced than any news shows I have watched , but since you are calling their credentials into question here they are

http://www.democracynow.org/about.shtml
Democracy Now! is a national, daily, independent, award-winning news program airing on over 350 stations in North America. Pioneering the largest public media collaboration in the U.S., Democracy Now! is broadcast on Pacifica, NPR, community, and college radio stations; on public access, PBS, satellite television (DISH network: Free Speech TV ch. 9415 and Link TV ch. 9410; DIRECTV: Link TV ch. 375); as a "podcast," and on the internet.

Democracy Now!, host Amy Goodman, co-host Juan Gonzalez and producer/correspondent Jeremy Scahill have won numerous awards including:

• George Polk Award, Radio Reporting
• Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Prize, First Place, International Radio Documentary
• Alfred I. DuPont-Columbia Silver Baton for Excellence in Broadcast Journalism
• Edwin H. Major Armstrong Award, Best Radio Documentary
• National Federation of Community Broadcasters, Golden Reels (several)
• Project Censored Award, Most Censored Story
• Society of Professional Journalists, Best Investigative Reporting; Award for Excellence, Series/Investigative Reporting
• United Press International, Best Radio Feature
• Associated Press, Best Enterprise Reporting
• Electronic Frontier Foundation, Pioneer Award
• American Women in Radio & Television, Pinnacle Award for Radio Programming
• National Catholic Association of Broadcasters, Best Documentary; Best Religious Documentary
• Radio/Television News Directors Association, Regional News Series/Documentary Award


The program is hosted by award-winning journalists Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzalez and produced out of the Downtown Community Television Center, a community media center in New York City’s Chinatown (shown to the right).

Democracy Now!'s War and Peace Report provides our audience with access to people and perspectives rarely heard in the U.S.corporate-sponsored media, including independent and international journalists, ordinary people from around the world who are directly affected by U.S. foreign policy, grassroots leaders and peace activists, artists, academics and independent analysts. In addition, the War and Peace Report hosts real debates - debates between people who substantially disagree, such as between the White House or the Pentagon spokespeople on the one hand, and grassroots activists on the other.

New stations are adding Democracy Now! to their programming schedules all the time, and there are several movements going on around the country right now to bring Democracy Now! to new communities. To find out more about these efforts, and how to get involved, click here.
WHY INDEPENDENT MEDIA ?

For true democracy to work, people need easy access to independent, diverse sources of news and information.

But the last two decades have seen unprecedented corporate media consolidation. The U.S. media was already fairly homogenous in the early 80s: some fifty media conglomerates dominated all media outlets, including television, radio, newspapers, magazines, music, publishing and film. In the year 2000, just six corporations dominated the U.S. media.

In addition, corporate media outlets in the U.S. are legally responsible to their shareholders to maximize profits.

And U.S. “public” media outlets accept funding from major corporations, as well as from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Every Corporation for Public Broadcasting board member is appointed by the White House and confirmed by the Senate.

Democracy Now! is funded entirely through contributions from listeners, viewers, and foundations. We do not accept advertisers, donations from corporations, or donations from governments. This allows us to maintain our independence.

[mesue]

http://www.democracynow.org/staff.shtml
Amy Goodman
Host and Executive Producer

Amy Goodman is the host and executive producer of Democracy Now!. She is co-author of the national best-seller The Exception to the Rulers: Exposing Oily Politicians, War Profiteers, and the Media that Love Them written with her brother David Goodman. The book was chosen by independent bookstores as the #1 political title of the 2004 election season. The book was also chosen as one of the top 50 nonfiction books of 2004 by the editors of Publishers Weekly.

Democracy Now! is a national, daily, independent, award-winning news program airing on over 300 stations in North America.Pioneering the largest public media collaboration in the U.S., Democracy Now! is broadcast on Pacifica, community, and National Public Radio stations, public access cable television stations, satellite television (on Free Speech TV, channel 9415 of the DISH Network), shortwave radio and the internet.

Democracy Now!'s War and Peace Report provides our audience with access to people and perspectives rarely heard in the U.S.corporate-sponsored media, including independent and international journalists, ordinary people from around the world who are directly affected by U.S. foreign policy, grassroots leaders and peace activists, artists, academics and independent analysts. In addition, the War and Peace Report hosts real debates - debates between people who substantially disagree, such as between the White House or the Pentagon spokespeople on the one hand, and grassroots activists on the other.

Amy Goodman began her career in community radio in 1985 at Pacifica Radio's New York Station, WBAI. She produced WBAI's Evening News for 10 years. In 1990 and 1991, Amy traveled to East Timor to report on the US-backed Indonesian occupation of East Timor. There, she and colleague Allan Nairn witnessed Indonesian soldiers gun down 270 East Timorese. Indonesian soldiers beat Amy and Allan, fracturing Allan's skull. Their documentary, "Massacre: The Story of East Timor" won numerous awards, including the Robert F. Kennedy Prize for International Reporting, the Alfred I. DuPont-Columbia Award, the Armstrong Award, the Radio/Television News Directors Award, as well as awards from the Associated Press, United Press International, and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

In 1996, Amy helped launch Pacifica Radio's Democracy Now!. Two years later, Amy and producer Jeremy Scahill went to Nigeria. Their radio documentary "Drilling and Killing: Chevron and Nigeria's Oil Dictatorship" exposed Chevron's role in the killing of two Nigerian villagers in the Niger Delta, who were protesting yet another oil spill in their community. That documentary won the George Polk Award, the Golden Reel for Best National Documentary from the National Federation of Community Broadcasters, and a Project Censored award. In 1999, Amy Goodman traveled to Peru to interview American political prisoner Lori Berenson. It was the first time a journalist had ever gotten into the prison to speak to her. In March of 2004, Amy obtained the international broadcast exclusive of the return of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide from imposed exile in the Central African Republic to Jamaica, accompanying the Aristides with the delegation that retrieved them.


Juan Gonzalez
Co-Host

Juan Gonzalez has been a columnist at the New York Daily News since 1988. He has won numerous awards for his investigative reporting including the George Polk Award in 1998 and was recently elected President of the National Association of Hispanic Journalists. Juan's most recent book Fallout: The Environmental Consequences of the World Trade Center Collapse documents cover-ups by Environmental Protection Agency and government officials about health hazards at Ground Zero in New York. He is also the author of the book, Harvest of Empire: The History of Latinos in America.

[mesue]

I noticed not to many made a stink about it. {cough** It wasn't the "American's" doing it.

People made more of a fuss over the detainee's getting photographed, than when American's & others were being decapitated. :rolleyes:

I understand what you are saying but you can't say we are fighting terrorists and then begin to act like terrorists, because their acts are so heinous.

We are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard, not sink down to their levels.

[mesue]

He IS our president..........deal with it. Who among you is perfect, or has NEVER told a lie?
If he intentinally and knowingly led us into this war knowing there were no WMD's then one can say his lie cost over 2000 American lives, is that acceptable?

[DBackFan]

why in the hell can't you guys occupy yourselves with something that will do some good! Like spend a morning watching the house debate the War in Iraq! Spend time at a shelter or giving at a food bank. My Son is in the Army...I support our President......its the Holidays and our soldiers need to hear more than your USELESS rhetoric. I have been gone along time because of people like you...l.I really need to stya gone...you and your Bush Basher followers are just pathetic.

[tngirl]

why in the hell can't you guys occupy yourselves with something that will do some good! Like spend a morning watching the house debate the War in Iraq! Spend time at a shelter or giving at a food bank. My Son is in the Army...I support our President......its the Holidays and our soldiers need to hear more than your USELESS rhetoric. I have been gone along time because of people like you...l.I really need to stya gone...you and your Bush Basher followers are just pathetic.

THANK YOU! I support your son and EVERY military person out there. I believe they are doing their job the way they NEED to do their job.

[tngirl]

If he intentinally and knowingly led us into this war knowing there were no WMD's then one can say his lie cost over 2000 American lives, is that acceptable?

HELL YES!!! We have taken out another crazy mother f****r that wanted to take us out. You want to sit there and biatch because of wars being about oil. But you DO NOT stop to think of where the oil that runs your car, your utilities and all the things that are produced using oil comes from.

Our GOVERNMENT refuses to allow more domestic drilling so we are forced to get our oil elsewhere, you so are DAM* right we will be going to war for oil. I get so tired of yours and others sanctimonious attitudes toward our government and all its "wrong-doings". But I sure don't see you doing anything to better our world. You just sit at your computer and post these ridiculous BS threads and post. Well, THANK GOD and our EVIL military that have GIVEN you that right

The only military personnel that I hear whining over the war are the panty waste that joined the military because of the benefits with no intention of ever having to go to war. Just like during the Gulf War, "I didn't think I would have to fight". Well wake up and smell the coffee....WAR IS HELL and people are going to die. If the politics of this war keep on the way they are going we will definitely be in another Veitnam.

When Clinton was in office you didn't see all these threads bashing him. The same people that thought he was just the greatest are now supporting Hillary and she is no better than him. She didn't even have the guts to divorce the moron because she had her own agenda and was afraid it would mess that up. I would have had more respect for her if she had divorced his butt. Remember during his election and the Flowers affair? "I am not Tammy Wynette, Stand By Your Man BS? I find it really laughable that she showed herself to be just that.

[tngirl]

I understand what you are saying but you can't say we are fighting terrorists and then begin to act like terrorists, because their acts are so heinous.

We are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard, not sink down to their levels.

So mesue, how many heads have we sawed off? I do NOT like war and I do NOT like torture. But a war is fought to be won. You want to bring up the women and children argument. This was brought up in Veitnam also, and guess who was doing alot of the terrorism there? The women and children and just because they are women and children does not make them innocent. As for the raping, who says we are doing that? Just like a detainee says that a Koran was flushed down a toilet, just because an enemy combatant says it is so makes it true?

Now before you go on a rant with me, I do NOT condone rape and I really do not condone torture of children because the children are just doing what they are taught by their parents. But that does not mean they are innocent. These people are being held for a reason. Our guys just didn't decide "hey, lets take in this little fellow or that person" just because they had nothing better to do.

Why don't you try putting a bit of faith in our government and our troops. We do NOT need to know everything.

[mesue]

why in the hell can't you guys occupy yourselves with something that will do some good! Like spend a morning watching the house debate the War in Iraq! Spend time at a shelter or giving at a food bank. My Son is in the Army...I support our President......its the Holidays and our soldiers need to hear more than your USELESS rhetoric. I have been gone along time because of people like you...l.I really need to stya gone...you and your Bush Basher followers are just pathetic.
Did anyone force you to open this thread? The very title itself pretty much tells you what it is about. If it bothers you so much why did you come in and bother reading it and posting? I'm glad you did but apparently you are not as offended as you say you are or you would never have looked at it.
You are right the soldiers need to hear more than USELESS rhetoric but its not me dishing the rhetoric, it's the President you support. There is a reason his ratings right now are lower than any President before him and that is because more and more people are angry he led us into this war and they are starting to see the truth about why we went to war.
I hope your son stays safe, I know you worry about him. (I worried about my SIL but not like a mother would) Is he in Iraq? I hope not and I hope he does not have to go. My SIL pulled 6 months in Afghanistan and 14 months in Iraq and had his obligated time not been up after they got back, he would be there again as the unit he was in just got shipped back to Iraq. While I am sure we both disagree on politics I am sure in the end we want the same thing, the soldiers home safe and sound.

[tngirl]

Did anyone force you to open this thread? The very title itself pretty much tells you what it is about. If it bothers you so much why did you come in and bother reading it and posting? I'm glad you did but apparently you are not as offended as you say you are or you would never have looked at it.
You are right the soldiers need to hear more than USELESS rhetoric but its not me dishing the rhetoric, it's the President you support. There is a reason his ratings right now are lower than any President before him and that is because more and more people are angry he led us into this war and they are starting to see the truth about why we went to war.
I hope your son stays safe, I know you worry about him. (I worried about my SIL but not like a mother would) Is he in Iraq? I hope not and I hope he does not have to go. My SIL pulled 6 months in Afghanistan and 14 months in Iraq and had his obligated time not been up after they got back, he would be there again as the unit he was in just got shipped back to Iraq. While I am sure we both disagree on politics I am sure in the end we want the same thing, the soldiers home safe and sound.

mesue, you are such a hipocrit. You are going to knock her then wish her well? I am offended by your BS that you so enjoy posting, but I am going to come in and give you my 2 cents worth anyways even though you are so biased and bigoted it is a waste of my time and energy. You only think you are well informed when what you are is misinformed.

[mesue]

HELL YES!!! We have taken out another crazy mother f****r that wanted to take us out. You want to sit there and biatch because of wars being about oil. But you DO NOT stop to think of where the oil that runs your car, your utilities and all the things that are produced using oil comes from.

Our GOVERNMENT refuses to allow more domestic drilling so we are forced to get our oil elsewhere, you so are DAM* right we will be going to war for oil. I get so tired of yours and others sanctimonious attitudes toward our government and all its "wrong-doings". But I sure don't see you doing anything to better our world. You just sit at your computer and post these ridiculous BS threads and post. Well, THANK GOD and our EVIL military that have GIVEN you that right

The only military personnel that I hear whining over the war are the panty waste that joined the military because of the benefits with no intention of ever having to go to war. Just like during the Gulf War, "I didn't think I would have to fight". Well wake up and smell the coffee....WAR IS HELL and people are going to die. If the politics of this war keep on the way they are going we will definitely be in another Veitnam.

When Clinton was in office you didn't see all these threads bashing him. The same people that thought he was just the greatest are now supporting Hillary and she is no better than him. She didn't even have the guts to divorce the moron because she had her own agenda and was afraid it would mess that up. I would have had more respect for her if she had divorced his butt. Remember during his election and the Flowers affair? "I am not Tammy Wynette, Stand By Your Man BS? I find it really laughable that she showed herself to be just that.
So you think it is perfectly acceptable that over 2000 soldiers have died to put gas in your tank, but yet you say you support the soldiers. Wow, how blatantly obvious your comments make that support a joke. You support them because they are providing a means to more oil and gas for you. I'm sure they feel your support and love!

[mesue]

I do wish her well and I wish her son well whether we agree on Bush or the war or anything else. I know what it is like to worry about a loved one in war. Hubby, when he was in the marines was in some serious conficts overseas and I spent my time wondering if he was alive or dead? At one point after three weeks of no word and the red cross not being able to find him they pretty much said we should start preparing for the worst. So I know what that kind of fear is.

What are you saying that because we disagree that I should wish otherwise. Is that the way you think?

[Chiizii]

One thing I have noticed about threads like these is how quickly the 90s and all its "glory" has been pushed aside or forgotten.
So for all my buddies that served with me during the 1990's and thru Desert Storm I post this link as a reminder:

Review of the lead up to 2003 (http://www.mudvillegazette.com/archives/003840.html)

Please read and remember...especially those who served.

And remember, the mob mentality is what helped bring Rome to its knees.

[mesue]

I appreciate and respect the fact that we should always remember those who have served, and those who have fallen fighting for our country, (My uncle died fighting in the Korean conflict). Many members of my family have served in the military.

You are right we should always honor those who spent any time serving our country for whatever reason they chose to serve, whether it was for totally patriotic reasons or the school scholarships offered that made them agree to join the military. For whatever reason they chose to serve thier country they still served their country, period. Whether they spent one moment in a conflict of any kind or not. They are agreeing to give up several years of their lives and we should never abuse that kind of committment and always honor it.

[adorkablex]

mesue, you are such a hipocrit. You are going to knock her then wish her well? I am offended by your BS that you so enjoy posting, but I am going to come in and give you my 2 cents worth anyways even though you are so biased and bigoted it is a waste of my time and energy. You only think you are well informed when what you are is misinformed.

And I'm quite offended by quite alot of the things you post, but I don't see that shutting you up anytime soon.

I agree with Mesue, anyone entering this thread KNEW it would be a thread against our current administration, so deal with it.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

why in the hell can't you guys occupy yourselves with something that will do some good! Like spend a morning watching the house debate the War in Iraq! Spend time at a shelter or giving at a food bank. My Son is in the Army...I support our President......its the Holidays and our soldiers need to hear more than your USELESS rhetoric. I have been gone along time because of people like you...l.I really need to stya gone...you and your Bush Basher followers are just pathetic.


I DO occupy myself with things that are good......going to work,feeding and clothing my kids,involved in y daughter's school,helping my sister through her grieving process,talking to my son as often as possible.....my son IS a MARINE who will deploy to Iraq in Feb.,I support him 500%,BUT because I support my son, doesn't mean I have to like the man in office,or agree with his choices.if I am pathetic,so be it ,but you entered into the pathetic stage too when you replied here.Why is it people can make threads about Kerry when the election process was going on,but now with the war in full blown effect,with Bush in office,a remark about the president makes us Bush Bashers?If you chose to stay away that's on you,but opinions are just that,you're a Bush a$$ kisser,I am a Bush Basher.Your view is your view,mine is mine,that doesn't make us bad people,just individuals with our own opinions.And some of us my think YOU Bush followers are pathetic,but alas,just a opinion.

[tngirl]

I DO occupy myself with things that are good......going to work,feeding and clothing my kids,involved in y daughter's school,helping my sister through her grieving process,talking to my son as often as possible.....my son IS a MARINE who will deploy to Iraq in Feb.,I support him 500%,BUT because I support my son, doesn't mean I have to like the man in office,or agree with his choices.if I am pathetic,so be it ,but you entered into the pathetic stage too when you replied here.Why is it people can make threads about Kerry when the election process was going on,but now with the war in full blown effect,with Bush in office,a remark about the president makes us Bush Bashers?If you chose to stay away that's on you,but opinions are just that,you're a Bush a$$ kisser,I am a Bush Basher.Your view is your view,mine is mine,that doesn't make us bad people,just individuals with our own opinions.And some of us my think YOU Bush followers are pathetic,but alas,just a opinion.


SMOOCH SMOOCH SMOOCH

[tngirl]

And I'm quite offended by quite alot of the things you post, but I don't see that shutting you up anytime soon.

I agree with Mesue, anyone entering this thread KNEW it would be a thread against our current administration, so deal with it.

Considering you have only replied to one of my post, and that was the one where you were whining because the government won't pay for your college (oh by the way, loans aren't based on income....that is grants), I guess I can see where you could be offended by my post.

But, you have one thing right. There is no way on God's green earth, that anyone as ignorant as yourself or mesue or any other person that refuses to use their for what God gave it to them for, will shut me up. The only way I will shut up on this board is if I get banned, and then, that is only if they ban my isp. Because us Bush ARSE KISSERS have the right to do whatever we want to do and we are intitled to our opinions the same as everyone.

And that my dear little girl, is the right that was given to me by my family and forefathers that shed their blood bringing this country into being and preserving its soveriegncy.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

SMOOCH SMOOCH SMOOCH

And guess where you can plant them kisses...on my ...

and my dear little girl....we all have opinions..everyones are different..we (Bush Basher's can post just like YOU can..so what's the big fudging deal? :confused:

[jdfan]

And I'm quite offended by quite alot of the things you post, but I don't see that shutting you up anytime soon.

I agree with Mesue, anyone entering this thread KNEW it would be a thread against our current administration, so deal with it.

We have the freedom of speech also. Call me a Bush a$$ kisser too. It is better than believing everything on the internet and having no critical thinking skills. But when you sit at the computer and write nasty crap to someone, you better know who you are talking to. I have watched this forum for sometime now and I have noticed the little anti-bush clique. I wouldn't want a few of these anti-bush people on a jury. They will have already held trial before the facts are out. I am not saying that everything this administration has done is right. But every administration has had similar situations occurring and I have seen nothing like this against them.

[tngirl]

So you think it is perfectly acceptable that over 2000 soldiers have died to put gas in your tank, but yet you say you support the soldiers. Wow, how blatantly obvious your comments make that support a joke. You support them because they are providing a means to more oil and gas for you. I'm sure they feel your support and love!

Oh mesue, I didn't realize that you didn't own a car!! And I guess you do not have anything plastic in your house. It is a terrible thing that you do not use Vaseline, it is really great for those nasty burns and easing heat rash. You know, I don't wear make-up either, with my job it is a total waste of time. So you use wood to heat your house? Man, I couldn't stand to have to live so rustically. Oh, and before someone points it out....yeah...I am being very sarcastic here.

And once again, the great mesue twists the words around to make it sound good for herself. I think it is perfectly acceptable that our soldiers have died for the purple fingers. Iraq had a higher voter turn out than we did here in the United States...this is what I find acceptable. And I can guarantee that our servicemen that lost their lives feel the same way. But the BS that you dish out is the BS that is helping to kill our soldiers. The propaganda that the enemy uses against us. And if it takes torturing of an enemy combatant to save the lives of the innocent....I am for that too.

So, mesue, you can keep on your propaganda train and.....nope, I guess I won't finish that statement. I will just let you twist it around to meet your own translation like you do with everything else you read.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Are you new?? LMAO

Look back at post years back...we (BBS members) have always debated Presidents,congress,each other,peoples life styles,religion....fact of life, not everyone agrees with everyone else.BUT, us long time members are here for eachother in times of need,praise and sorrow no questions asked and no judging....just beacause we disagree doesn't make us enemies.

[jdfan]

So you think it is perfectly acceptable that over 2000 soldiers have died to put gas in your tank, but yet you say you support the soldiers. Wow, how blatantly obvious your comments make that support a joke. You support them because they are providing a means to more oil and gas for you. I'm sure they feel your support and love!

Why do you always twist people's words? Wow, you don't benefit from the oil? Why can't you simply state facts, but when someone disagrees with you, you get beligerent. As for over 2000 soldiers, they will never be forgotten or dishonored by me. They are professional and this is their job. Much like your fire department and police. I see you in an uproar over the crime in the US. Wow, it is a good thing that you live in US,

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Why do you always twist people's words? Wow, you don't benefit from the oil? Why can't you simply state facts, but when someone disagrees with you, you get beligerent. As for over 2000 soldiers, they will never be forgotten or dishonored by me. They are professional and this is their job. Much like your fire department and police. I see you in an uproar over the crime in the US. Wow, it is a good thing that you live in US,

I don't agree with everything mesue post's but it's her opinion....look up post from gobbs,maybe you wll see another side to all this........her son is among the 2,000 that lost his life in this war.

My son leaves for Iraq in Feb.My nephew who is in Kuwait right now will be in Iraq in May.Like I said I support him/all of the soldiers 500%, I can not support this war any longer.

[Njean31]

HELL YES!!!


I would have had more respect for her if she had divorced his butt. Remember during his election and the Flowers affair? "I am not Tammy Wynette, Stand By Your Man BS? I find it really laughable that she showed herself to be just that.


LMAO....so pathetic and so true :)

[Njean31]

i think we kinda need this stuff:

What are the uses of crude oil?
Frequently asked questions about crude oilFrequently asked questions about OPECFrequently asked questions about the petroleum industry

Burning crude oil itself, however, is of limited use. To extract the maximum value from crude, it first needs to be refined into other products. The best-known of these is gasoline, or petrol. However, there are many other products that can be obtained when a barrel of crude oil is refined. These include liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), naphtha, kerosene, gasoil and fuel oil. All of these are fuels. Other useful products which are not fuels can also be manufactured by refining crude oil, such as lubricants and asphalt (used in paving roads). A range of sub-items like perfumes and insecticides are also ultimately derived from crude oil.

Furthermore, several of the products listed above which are derived from crude oil, such as naphtha, gasoil, LPG and ethane, can themselves be used as inputs or feedstocks in the production of petrochemicals. There are more than 4,000 different petrochemical products, but those which are considered as basic products include ethylene, propylene, butadiene, benzene, ammonia and methanol. The main groups of petrochemical end-products are plastics, synthetic fibres, synthetic rubbers, detergents and chemical fertilisers.

Considering the vast number of products that are derived from it, crude oil is a very versatile substance. Life as we know it today would be extremely difficult without crude oil and its by-products.

[hotwheelstx]

Didn't anyone ever learn not to discuss politics or religion with anyone??? All it does is get people upset over others opinions.

Aggie is retired military.....he in no way supports Bush and what he's doing now. He voted for him in 2004...........I DIDN'T/WON'T/WILL NOT.

To this day Aggie will keep his mouth closed about Bush. He knows fully how I feel about him and who I DID VOTE FOR.

Some things are better left unsaid.....We all have the right to voice opinions or say what we think is right/wrong. When it comes to hurting others w/words or actions on purpose.....I don't feel that's correct....j

Just because some voted for Bush and feel he's doing a good job for the country, others disagree. Isn't that what freedom is all about???? If not, then why do we have people fighting for our freedom????

[adorkablex]

tngirl

Considering you have only replied to one of my post, and that was the one where you were whining because the government won't pay for your college (oh by the way, loans aren't based on income....that is grants), I guess I can see where you could be offended by my post.

But, you have one thing right. There is no way on God's green earth, that anyone as ignorant as yourself or mesue or any other person that refuses to use their for what God gave it to them for, will shut me up. The only way I will shut up on this board is if I get banned, and then, that is only if they ban my isp. Because us Bush ARSE KISSERS have the right to do whatever we want to do and we are intitled to our opinions the same as everyone.

And that my dear little girl, is the right that was given to me by my family and forefathers that shed their blood bringing this country into being and preserving its soveriegncy.

Not quite sure when the last time you applied for a Stafford Loan or a Pell Grant was, but when I last checked....it was based on income. And I wasn't whining because the government won't pay for my college education, I merely stated that I was glad that I didn't need for the government to pay for my education.
And excuse me for having a life and not being able to reply to every thread in which you've ever posted something I didn't agree with. But some of us have lives that don't allow us to be in the internet 24/7. But, seeing as you post so much.... I'd say you don't know too much about that.

And I find it very amusing that someone who has such a poor grasp of the English language would call myself, mesue or anyone else for that matter....ignorant.

And I never told you to shut up, because I do believe everyone has the right to post their opinion. Without people tearing them to shreds as you continue to do to Mesue in EVERY stinking post she makes. She can't post anything without you crawling up her buttcrack. But if you don't want someone to tell you how to post, I would seriously consider not being so hypocritical and letting her post as she sees fit.

And just curious...but if you have ancestors who died/fought in the Confederacy....they were fighting AGAINST the United States. But that's just my own personal opinion :D And we dear little girls tend not to be entitled to those around BBS any longer.



jdfan
We have the freedom of speech also. Call me a Bush a$$ kisser too. It is better than believing everything on the internet and having no critical thinking skills. But when you sit at the computer and write nasty crap to someone, you better know who you are talking to. I have watched this forum for sometime now and I have noticed the little anti-bush clique. I wouldn't want a few of these anti-bush people on a jury. They will have already held trial before the facts are out. I am not saying that everything this administration has done is right. But every administration has had similar situations occurring and I have seen nothing like this against them.

I've never told other people to silence their views & opinions simply because they differ from mine.

And as for an Anti-Bush clique, I don't know what you're talking about. If you watch the boards, you'd know that I don't post on here very often. And I very rarely post in political threads, mainly due to people like yourself and tngirl who scream that you have the right to free speech, but don't allow others the same freedoms. And the nasty speaking started in this thread and in other threads with yourself and tngirl long before I entered the thread.

Alot of the reason that you've never seen backlash against an administration like this one, is because the internet wasn't as big during other administrations. With the internet, things (be that fact or fiction) spread like wildfire. And people have more of an open forum to express their concerns and opinions. I'm sure there would've been alot of anti-Clinton threads had the internet been as popular back when he was being impeached.

[mesue]

Oh mesue, I didn't realize that you didn't own a car!! And I guess you do not have anything plastic in your house. It is a terrible thing that you do not use Vaseline, it is really great for those nasty burns and easing heat rash. You know, I don't wear make-up either, with my job it is a total waste of time. So you use wood to heat your house? Man, I couldn't stand to have to live so rustically. Oh, and before someone points it out....yeah...I am being very sarcastic here.

And once again, the great mesue twists the words around to make it sound good for herself. I think it is perfectly acceptable that our soldiers have died for the purple fingers. Iraq had a higher voter turn out than we did here in the United States...this is what I find acceptable. And I can guarantee that our servicemen that lost their lives feel the same way. But the BS that you dish out is the BS that is helping to kill our soldiers. The propaganda that the enemy uses against us. And if it takes torturing of an enemy combatant to save the lives of the innocent....I am for that too.

So, mesue, you can keep on your propaganda train and.....nope, I guess I won't finish that statement. I will just let you twist it around to meet your own translation like you do with everything else you read.
I'm not twisting your words, simply restating them back to you. You say you know the war is about oil and you support this war and this president, and you say you are supporting the soldiers in this war. If this war is about oil which you agree it is then you are supporting it while soldiers die for oil. Seems pretty clear to me.

Oh an BTW about not agreeing with the war and that by doing that I and anyone else who does not agree with the war is helping the enemy is just manipulation by the bush Administration. Dissent is my right and the Bush Administration in trying to stop that right by uttering nonsense about the act of dissent helping the enemy is just one more form of manipulation that Bush followers seem to fall for. I will speak out about my views whether you or the Bush Administartion like it or not.
T

[tngirl]

Not quite sure when the last time you applied for a Stafford Loan or a Pell Grant was, but when I last checked....it was based on income. And I wasn't whining because the government won't pay for my college education, I merely stated that I was glad that I didn't need for the government to pay for my education.


I personally applied back in ’96-’97 and then again for my daughter in 2000. The Pell Grant is based on income, loans are not. That is why so many that do not qualify for grants have to take out the loans. And your comment was something about being glad you didn’t have to “depend on our lovely government”

[tngirl]

And excuse me for having a life and not being able to reply to every thread in which you've ever posted something I didn't agree with. But some of us have lives that don't allow us to be in the internet 24/7. But, seeing as you post so much.... I'd say you don't know too much about that.

As for having a life, I do have a life that I will not go into to details to explain, because it is NOT yours or anyone else’s business what goes on in my personal life. I know more about LIFE than you could ever imagine. And if you compare notes on the number of posts between the 2 of us, you would win that one, so I could assume that you spend more time here than I do.

[tngirl]

And I find it very amusing that someone who has such a poor grasp of the English language would call myself, mesue or anyone else for that matter....ignorant.

I do apologize for not using my spell check or leaving out a word here in there. But, my bad, I do not sit and reread most of my post before I hit the submit button. I would promise to do better in the future, but frankly, I could care less. And personally, I find nothing wrong with my use of the English language….I am pretty good with some of the French language too….but they won’t let us use that language on here. Also, someone’s grammar or use of the language does not measure one’s intelligence that is apparent by a lot of the post you see on these boards.

[tngirl]

And I never told you to shut up, because I do believe everyone has the right to post their opinion. Without people tearing them to shreds as you continue to do to Mesue in EVERY stinking post she makes. She can't post anything without you crawling up her buttcrack. But if you don't want someone to tell you how to post, I would seriously consider not being so hypocritical and letting her post as she sees fit.


No, you never “told” me to shut up….you just made the comment of not seeing something shutting me up. Sorry, I have had a very long and stressful day and just didn’t feel like backtracking and looking up the correct quote of what you said…plus, it wasn’t worth the trouble. And as for me disagreeing with mesue, she is a big girl and can defend herself.

[tngirl]

And just curious...but if you have ancestors who died/fought in the Confederacy....they were fighting AGAINST the United States. But that's just my own personal opinion :D And we dear little girls tend not to be entitled to those around BBS any longer.

That, dear, is just a matter of opinion. The Confederacy was fighting for States Rights and their way of life. If you will check your History, the southern states were not properly represented in our government at the time. This created the problem of the northern states dictating to the southern states what was going to be. After the Civil War is when a lot of changes were made as to the make-up of our Congress and Senate to avoid such problems in the future. And, yes, I have ancestors that proudly fought for the Confederacy and their rights as citizens of the United States and I also had ancestors that fought for the Union. Then of course there is General Robert McLeary from the Revolutionary War and there were the ones that fought in the War of 1812. So don’t go and try to make me look bad by who and what my ancestors were, because I am proud of them.

You are entitled to your personal opinion whether it amounts to much or not.

[tngirl]

I'm not twisting your words, simply restating them back to you. You say you know the war is about oil and you support this war and this president, and you say you are supporting the soldiers in this war. If this war is about oil which you agree it is then you are supporting it while soldiers die for oil. Seems pretty clear to me.

Oh an BTW about not agreeing with the war and that by doing that I and anyone else who does not agree with the war is helping the enemy is just manipulation by the bush Administration. Dissent is my right and the Bush Administration in trying to stop that right by uttering nonsense about the act of dissent helping the enemy is just one more form of manipulation that Bush followers seem to fall for. I will speak out about my views whether you or the Bush Administartion like it or not.
T

No, problem, speak out all you want, but I will also speak out on MY views. I get so tired of your argument that my views are not my own. Everything that I post is MY opinion, not those handed to my by someone that happens to sound like they know what they are talking about. FYI, I have never heard Bush speak on the propaganda issue, it is something that I find that mirrors the images of the protestors of the Vietnam War and how it was used "against" our troops.

I also did not say that the war was just about oil. I would be lying if I said that oil had nothing to do with it. This war is about many things and for nothing else I support it because of the PURPLE FINGERS...this is a point that I strongly made in a previous thread on the subject. You can go ahead and believe what you want to believe. I just see history repeating itself because people want to hide their heads in the sand and not learn from history.

[tngirl]

And just curious...but if you have ancestors who died/fought in the Confederacy....they were fighting AGAINST the United States. But that's just my own personal opinion :D And we dear little girls tend not to be entitled to those around BBS any longer.


BTW, why do you appear to be knocking my ancestors when you posted a picture of a tombstone that apparently is your Conferate ancestor?

[Freebeemom]

OMG, you guys are arguing over stupid things.....this is how the hatfields and maccoy's began....fighting over stupid things. This is totally OT and the thread should be closed. Your arguments have nothing to do with Pres. Bush.