Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq, Afghanistan [Archive] - Big Big Forums

ckahanshaw

10-06-2005, 06:50 PM

:eek: :eek: :eek: Can You believe this? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Bush claimed God told him to invade Iraq, Afghanistan: BBC Thu Oct 6, 6:05 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - US President George W. Bush allegedly said God told him to invade Iraq and Afghanistan, a new BBC documentary will reveal, according to details.

Bush made the claim when he met Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas and then foreign minister Nabil Shaath in June 2003, the ministers told the documentary series to be broadcast in Britain later this month.

The US leader also told them he had been ordered by God to create a Palestinian state, the ministers said.

Shaath, now the Palestinian information minister, said: " President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God.

'God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan'.'

"And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq...' And I did.

"'And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God I'm gonna do it'," said Shaath.

Abbas, who was also at the meeting in the Egyptian resort of Sharm al-Sheikh, recalled how the president told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation.

"So I will get you a Palestinian state."

A BBC spokesman said the content of the programme had been put to the White House but it had refused to comment on a private conversation.

The three-part series, "Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs", charts the attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US president Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza strip.

The programme speaks to presidents and prime ministers, their generals and ministers, about what happened behind closed doors as the peace talks failed and the intifada grew.

The series is due to be screened in Britain on October 10, 17 and 24.

Bliss

10-06-2005, 08:06 PM

Now, "God" is talking to Bush? (lol) Sounds like he needs to seek professional help if he's hearing voices. :eek:

3lilpigs

10-07-2005, 03:16 AM

sorry.....i dont believe anything that British newspapers write. Why hasnt this been publised over here?

ETA: i saw it in yahoo news, but the only source so far is still the British papers.

momfromTN

10-07-2005, 08:33 AM

No, actually, I cannot believe it. The article did say ALLEGEDLY. There is no concrete proof, so I am assuming it is yet another lie or propaganda piece to further smear the man's name.

Crick

10-07-2005, 09:52 AM

Took me all of two seconds to do a search and find numerous articles where Bush has made speeches about how God talked to him and told him what to do. Way too many to list all the links but I went to google seach and typed in "God speaks to Bush". I posted months ago about Bush saying God talked to him with articles copied/pasted. Guess the whole world is out to get Bush. :rolleyes: Thank goodness Bush hasn't built his political career on lies and propaganda. :mad:

1) We know where Osama bin Laden is.
2) We know Saddam has WMD and we know where they are.
3) Mission Accomplished.
4) Saddam and Osama are working together.
5) You are with us or against us. Glad he attacked N Korea, Iran, Cuba, etc.
6) I am the unifier not the divider.
7) It is always someone elses fault. (faulty intelligence, unreliable sources, Bill Clinton, The liberals, Hollywood, and that blasted Crick who has disliked me from day one {OK that he got right**)

mesue

10-07-2005, 10:07 AM

Daisy Duke

10-07-2005, 12:16 PM

this is all i am going to say about myself....
I do not complaine about the president because i don't vote! I don't vote cause I cannot be the president!! I can not be president because then the men in this world that do us women wrong will feel the wrath of me!! LOL
just a little humor to lighten the conversation..

NOTE: not all men are bad, just some of them.

YNKYH8R

10-07-2005, 01:02 PM

So if a religious man such as Bush says that God told him to invade the countries he has it must be a lie? And if it's reported in the media here or abroad it's lie too? If you agree with what you see on the news it's the truth, and if you don't agree it's a lie?

Katt

10-07-2005, 01:14 PM

I remember when it was posted on this board quite a few months back about his speeches and God talking to him.

Bliss

10-07-2005, 01:34 PM

3lilpigs

10-07-2005, 02:16 PM

3lilpigs

10-07-2005, 02:17 PM

Karen5111

10-07-2005, 03:23 PM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

tngirl

10-07-2005, 04:12 PM

Yep this has been reported before but most of you chose not to notice. Most of you want to believe the American media is in the business of keeping you informed well get it in your heads their not. The major news outlets are owned by 6 corporations whose only goal is to make money and to do that they have to keep their sponsors happy and their ratings up, and that has nothing to do with keeping you informed. Especially if you just watch American media sources and don't look elsewhere how are you going to know anything else? And then to top it off anything you don't like hearing you either ignore it or call it a lie or propaganda. I don't even know why the Bush Administration paid three pundits (with your tax dollars) to put propaganda out there; most of you believe whatever you are told to anyway.
Note this report is dated June 27, 2003 and is in the Washington Post.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A37944-2003Jun26?language=printer

Ok folks!! Mark our calendars!! I actually agree with mesue on something!! :eek: Well kind of I think :confused: ...lol. Yep, the media is going to report on what and how they think is going to make them money and keep you watching their broadcast..

As for the article listed and the BBC report, I cannot give them benefit of being true. Too many translations going on there...as stated in the article listed. I have heard speeches by the President referring to God but never where he has said that God has talked to him. When I hear the reference out of his own mouth, then I will believe it. Not because an arabic speaking translator tells me so.

As for believing what the media puts out there? I believe what I want to believe, yep, that is true. But, the things I disbelieve are those things that don't hold water or are totally biased and do not tell the whole story. And you guys have to admit that the media is way guilty of that.

firechic

10-07-2005, 05:46 PM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.
Yup

momfromTN

10-07-2005, 07:13 PM

justme23

10-08-2005, 03:02 AM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

Amen

Crick

10-08-2005, 06:17 AM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

JMO but obviously we have differant Gods. The God I pray to and believe in would never instruct anybody to attack another country (especailly a country that posed no threat to the mighty USA) and kill thousands of innocent people in his name. If that were the case then we could not blame the Muslim/Islam extremists for wanting to kill the infidels as their God, Muhammad has told them they will have a special place in heaven if they do.

Isn't it amazing that the vast majority of wars have been fought in the name of God, religion, and Christianity. Yet I believe one of the comandments statements clearly that "Thou shall not kill." Tired of Bush hiding behind religion and God which is in and of itself a complete mockery.

As for not believing the article where mesue printed the link because it was translated, I will be glad to copy and paste articles from US papers, but I'm sure they are unbelievable/unreliable also since the press is so Liberal. I also find it amazing that people say they will not believe anything published in the England newspapers when if I am correct, England is the strongest ally (Tony Blair) that the US has since Bush has done so much to harm the US relationships with our other allies (France, Germany, Spain, etc.)

Crick

10-08-2005, 06:22 AM

Crick

10-08-2005, 06:35 AM

Pasted this by itself because it is truely scary!

Bush, Hitler & God
Gott mit uns: On Bush and Hitler's Rhetoric
By Bob Fitrakis
Editor of the Free Press
9-4-4

President Bush told Texas evangelist James Robinson that "I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen . . . I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it."

With 49.3% of New York City residents in a recent Zogby poll believing that some people in our government knew of the 911 attack in advance and allowed it to happen, the President as right-wing evangelical prophet is under siege in his Madison Square Garden bunker. Convention watchers should take careful note of the theocratic nationalist rhetoric at the Republican convention this week.

When was the last time a Western nation had a leader so obsessed with God and claiming God was on our side?

If you answered Adolph Hitler and Nazi Germany, you're correct. Nothing can be more misleading than to categorize Hitler as a barbaric pagan or Godless totalitarian, like Stalin.

Both Bush and Hitler believe that they were chosen by God to lead their nations. With Hitler boldly proclaiming, before launching his doctrine of preventive war against all of Europe, that "I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany."

"I follow the path assigned to me by Providence with the instinctive sureness of a sleepwalker," Hitler said.

Hitler stated in February 1940, "But there is something else I believe, and that is that there is a God. . . . And this God again has blessed our efforts during the past 13 years." After the Iraqi invasion, Bush announced, "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did . . . ." Neither the similarity between Hitler and Bush's religious rhetoric nor the fact that the current President's grandfather was called "Hitler's Angel" by the New York Tribune for his financing of the Fuher's rise to power is lost on Europeans.

Pat Robertson called Bush "a prophet" and Ralph Reed claimed, after the 9/11 attack, God picked the President because "he knew George Bush had the ability to lead in this compelling way." Hitler told the German people in March 1936, "Providence withdrew its protection and our people fell, fell as scarcely any other people heretofore. In this deep misery we again learn to pray. . . . The mercy of the Lord slowly returns to us again. And in this hour we sink to our knees and beseech our almighty God that he may bless us, that He may give us the strength to carry on the struggle for the freedom, the future, the honor, and the peace of our people. So help us God."

At the beginning of Hitler's crusade on April 12, 1922, he spelled out his version of the warmongering Jesus: "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter." Randall Balmer in The Nation, noted that "Bush's God is the eye-for-an-eye God of the Hebrew prophets and the Book of Revelation, the God of vengeance and retribution."

As Bush has invoked the cross of Jesus to simultaneously attack the Islamic and Arab world, Hitler also saw the value of exalting the cross while waging endless war: "To be sure, our Christian Cross should be the most exalted symbol of the struggle against the Jewish-Marxist-Bolshevik spirit."

Like Bush-ites, Hitler was fond of invoking the Ten Commandments as the foundation of Nazi Germany: "The Ten Commandments are a code of living to which there's no refutation. These precepts correspond to irrefragable needs of the human soul."

But if you ever wondered where Bush got his idea for so-called "faith-based initiatives" you need only consult Hitler's January 30, 1939 speech to the Reichstag. The Fuhrer begins, "Amongst the accusations which are directed against Germany in the so-called democracy is the charge that the National Socialist State is hostile to religion."

Hitler goes on to document how much "public monies derived from taxation through the organs of the State have been placed at the disposal of both churches [Protestant and Catholic]." Hitler gave nearly 1.8 billion Reichsmarks between 1933-1938 directly to the Christian churches. In 1938 alone, he bragged that the Nazis gave half a billion Reichsmarks from the national government and an additional 92 million Reichsmarks from the Nazi-controlled German states and parish associations.

Hitler made the intent of his faith-based initiative clear when he noted, "With a tenth of our budget for religion, we would thus have a Church devoted to the State and of unshakable loyalty. . . . the little sects, which receive only a few hundred thousand marks, are devoted to us body and soul."

Bush's assertion that "I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job" brings to mind God as a dull-witted, cognitively-impaired nationalist unable to utter a simple declarative sentence who spends his time preaching "blessed are the warmongers and profit-makers."

Bob Fitrakis is the Editor of the Free Press (freepress.org), a political science professor, attorney and co-author with Harvey Wasserman of George W. Bush vs. the Superpower of Peace.

http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/942

tngirl

10-08-2005, 07:18 AM

Okay, now Bush is Hitler reincarnate?

mesue

10-08-2005, 07:20 AM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

Then you and some of the others here going amen should be outraged at all the people locked up in mental institutions who believe that God talks to them directly too and takes directions from him, apparently their not too busy to listen either.

They the people in mental institutions have a serious problem their psychiatrists, apparently not as understanding and knowledgable on the subject of God talking directly to people as you all are, don't understand this concept of God talking directly to them, and the psychiatrists lock them up usually. Sometimes of course only after that person has commited a serious crime like murdering someone because God told them too.

Anyway I thought since you and some others here seem to think it is perfectly reasonable to think that God talks directly to people should form a group of some sort to help set these poor misunderstood people free, maybe you could actually invest and buy them homes in your neighborhoods, next door preferrably after all I'm sure it would help them tremendously to have such understanding people right next door.

tngirl

10-08-2005, 07:30 AM

1)July 16, 2004
Quote of the Day
"I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job."

-- President Bush, quoted in the Lancaster New Era, during a private meeting with an Amish group.

2)Bush: "God Speaks Through Me"

From the local Lancaster County, PA paper:

At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’

As always, I try to provide a link to the source material, so here is where you can read the full story:
http://lancasteronline.com/pages/news/local/6/7564

3) http://moonbase1.typepad.com/mb1/2004/07/bible_says_bush.html
(only posted link because of religious content/language)

But these three give enough to show that Bush has made the comment on more than one occassion. Believe it or not. Lots more links, articles, quotes to be found by a simple search. And I'm out of here. Everyone can form their own opinion.

When I clicked on the first link all I got was a partial article saying that Bush visited the Amish and so I checked the archives the following:

The complete text of this article is no longer available online. If you wish to view the entire story please visit our archive or if you wish to order a reprint please visit our Customer Care Center.

As for the second link, I actually find it to be offensive and bordering on sacriligious, so I really don't think I could put much faith in that site. But thank you for posting them.

gr8granny

10-08-2005, 07:40 AM

[QUOTE=3lilpigs]sorry.....i dont believe anything that British newspapers write. Why hasnt this been publised over here?

Because Bush now owns the airwaves thanks to the changes to the FCC he made after being selected the first time. We aren't getting the real story about anything, especially Iraq. This isn't the first time I've heard God spoke to him. I. myself, heard him say this in one of his first speeches. I think he's mistaken. I think it's Satan talking to him, lol.

Crick

10-08-2005, 07:45 AM

When I clicked on the first link all I got was a partial article saying that Bush visited the Amish and so I checked the archives the following:

[B]The complete text of this article is no longer available online. If you wish to view the entire story please visit our archive or if you wish to order a reprint please visit our Customer Care Center. As for the second link, I actually find it to be offensive and bordering on sacriligious, so I really don't think I could put much faith in that site. But thank you for posting them.

Only takes a minute to sift through the archives. Don't have to order a reprint. ;)

That's why I put the disclaimer. :D I find it close to sacriligious that Bush wraps himself in God and the bible to promote his political agenda. The point being you will never see him doing anything wrong and I will never see him doing anything right.

The other point is it doesn't take any more time (actually less time and effort) to do a search of Bush's statement (or any other information on him) than it does to do a search of members on the board. However, members here will go out of their way to try to search out information on a member (which I could care less about) but won't take time to look for information that may/maynot prove something about the President. :(

Crick

10-08-2005, 08:24 AM

3lilpigs

10-08-2005, 08:55 AM

I also find it amazing that people say they will not believe anything published in the England newspapers when if I am correct, England is the strongest ally (Tony Blair) that the US has since Bush has done so much to harm the US relationships with our other allies (France, Germany, Spain, etc.)

what does that have to do with anything? just because we are allies means they cant print lies? im not saying the story isnt true....when i made my first post, i had heard nothing about it. but just because our ''allies' prints something doesnt mean its true. what paper is this from anyhow? is it a 'credible' newspaper, or one of their trash mags like STAR or ENQUIRER??

Njean31

10-08-2005, 09:00 AM

a LOT of Christians "talk" to God........i'm sure Billy Graham would say that he talks to him as well as the Pope..........talk about grasping at straws and trying to make him psychotic :rolleyes:

Njean31

10-08-2005, 09:06 AM

They the people in mental institutions have a serious problem their psychiatrists, apparently not as understanding and knowledgable on the subject of God talking directly to people as you all are, don't understand this concept of God talking directly to them, and the psychiatrists lock them up usually. Sometimes of course only after that person has commited a serious crime like murdering someone because God told them too.

these people are PSYCHOTIC and are usually slinging their poop while they are talking about what "God" told them to do or not to do... let me know when Bush starts playing with and slinging poop........then i might believe he's psycho

Crick

10-08-2005, 09:22 AM

what does that have to do with anything? just because we are allies means they cant print lies? im not saying the story isnt true....when i made my first post, i had heard nothing about it. but just because our ''allies' prints something doesnt mean its true. what paper is this from anyhow? is it a 'credible' newspaper, or one of their trash mags like STAR or ENQUIRER??

No that would be the reports of the Elvis sightings! :D Like the joke going around...How do you know when Bush is lying? Answer...his lips are moving.

Plenty has been written and posted about Bush making the statement. Somebody asked why they hadn't read it in the US papers and I furnished links to the quotes and articles (as did mesue). Bush has evidently made the statement more than once. People were saying they didn't believe it because they "hadn't read it" in a US paper or heard it on US television so it must be a lie. When they could have easily done a search as I did and found tons of links. Guess if Michelle Malkin didn't print it in her column or it wasn't reported on Fox TV then it's still a lie/propaganda spread by the un-American, Un-Patriotic, left wing, commie, red, hollywood liberals (and those are just the names I've been called that I can print).

For the record, I have no problem with him saying he's a God fearing Christian (and I hope he's telling the truth). The problem I have is him wrapping himself in God and religion for his own political gain. :mad: Might also explain his tumbling ratings which are now at an all time low for a second term President but that's another story and debate.

Crick

10-08-2005, 09:34 AM

a LOT of Christians "talk" to God........i'm sure Billy Graham would say that he talks to him as well as the Pope..........talk about grasping at straws and trying to make him psychotic :rolleyes:

There is a difference between talking (praying) to God and saying God talks to them.

"these people are PSYCHOTIC and are usually slinging their poop while they are talking about what "God" told them to do or not to do... let me know when Bush starts playing with and slinging poop........then i might believe he's psycho undergoing treatment." njean

Seems Bush has been doing his fair share of slinging poop (not literally) since 2000 yet he's allowed to run free all over the world. :D

tngirl

10-08-2005, 09:44 AM

Only takes a minute to sift through the archives. Don't have to order a reprint. ;)

That's why I put the disclaimer. :D I find it close to sacriligious that Bush wraps himself in God and the bible to promote his political agenda. The point being you will never see him doing anything wrong and I will never see him doing anything right.

But that is where you are wrong! I have never said that he has never done anything wrong, but you have the second part right, no matter what he does, you will still say he is wrong.

The other point is it doesn't take any more time (actually less time and effort) to do a search of Bush's statement (or any other information on him) than it does to do a search of members on the board. However, members here will go out of their way to try to search out information on a member (which I could care less about) but won't take time to look for information that may/maynot prove something about the President. :(

I clicked on your link and I DID do a search on that site. The statement I copied is the message that I got. The story is no longer available on their site. Any I DO search for information and I have never done a search on other members of the board. Not always, but sometimes, I give a link to where I get my information, but is NEVER good enough. Sometimes I just give my opinion on the topic being discussed.

So to put it simply, I do my homework, I have found it more so that the "liberals" on this board are the ones that spout off at the mouth with personal opinions and insults. I have no problem with someone else disagreeing with my believes and political views, I do have a problem with those that can do nothing but insult me because of them. I do not tell you that you are stupid or ignorant for your political views..I just wish that others would be a bit more considerate with their "views"

tngirl

10-08-2005, 09:49 AM

http://www.dubyaspeak.com/theologian.phtml?year=2004

One last link about Bush (he is so articulate sometimes). This only deals with statements he has made about himself and God. Would take forever to list all of his "Bushisms" :D

One word people...HUMOR

Now I'm out of here. Think the point has been made that Bush did in fact make his famous statement "God Speaks Through Me."

I am not saying that he did not say this, I only question the translation of the original post. I still haven't come across anything that is concrete, but then I have not seen or read everything out there. I also have not actually heard him make these references.

And Crick, HUMOR is always good, but it is also a 2way street.

justme23

10-08-2005, 10:05 AM

There is a difference between talking (praying) to God and saying God talks to them.

"these people are PSYCHOTIC and are usually slinging their poop while they are talking about what "God" told them to do or not to do... let me know when Bush starts playing with and slinging poop........then i might believe he's psycho undergoing treatment." njean

Seems Bush has been doing his fair share of slinging poop (not literally) since 2000 yet he's allowed to run free all over the world. :D

Maybe "talk" was a bad choice of words for nitpickers... however, lots of ppl believe God "talks" to them -- or "leads them down a certain path". While I do not believe (or agree w/ the ppl that do) that he is making this war about religion, I do believe that he meant God sent him down this path just as God sends me down many paths in my life.

Also, the bible does very well say thou shalt not kill, but it also says there will be many wars before he returns.

Crick

10-08-2005, 10:11 AM

So to put it simply, I do my homework, I have found it more so that the "liberals" on this board are the ones that spout off at the mouth with personal opinions and insults. I have no problem with someone else disagreeing with my believes and political views, I do have a problem with those that can do nothing but insult me because of them. I do not tell you that you are stupid or ignorant for your political views..I just wish that others would be a bit more considerate with their "views"

If you reread my posts, I have said people have a right to their opinions. I have never insulted you. I made a statement that people could do a search just as easily as I did. The post you made about the archives, I went to and sifted through them. I also in my search found the article the quote was from in other links. Saw no point in copying all of them. Nor did I say who did searches on members. Just don't see why people are concerned about what others post on other boards. To me what other members post isn't nearly as important as what the President does or say. Finally, please show me where I called anybody ignorant or stupid! People post and I reply with my views. Doesn't matter if someone agrees with me or not. Guess it's the liberal bias in me.

"But that is where you are wrong! I have never said that he has never done anything wrong, but you have the second part right, no matter what he does, you will still say he is wrong." tngirl

When he does something right, I will admit it. I applauded him after 9/11 and the way he handled it. However, that is the only thing I feel he has done right. I have strong opinions and I don't shy away from them. Doesn't mean I'm being rude or insulting.

"I am not saying that he did not say this, I only question the translation of the original post. I still haven't come across anything that is concrete, but then I have not seen or read everything out there. I also have not actually heard him make these references.

And Crick, HUMOR is always good, but it is also a 2way street." tngirl

That is why I did a search and posted links.

As for humor, anybody who has seen me on this board knows I have a great sense of humor. I can also have thick skin otherwise I would have been insulted by all the names I've been called and all the times I've been told I'm un-American, un-Patriotic, and a non Christian just because I speak my mind.

Quaker_Parrots

10-08-2005, 01:03 PM

You know there is a medical condition where you hear voices and do as they direct you to do....I believe it is what we know as schizophrenia

Njean31

10-08-2005, 01:30 PM

You know there is a medical condition where you hear voices and do as they direct you to do....I believe it is what we know as schizophrenia

IF he had schizophrenia i'm sure his medical team would have picked up on that by now, he does have to have a yearly medical exam.

Crick

10-08-2005, 01:57 PM

Complete text of article:

Bush quietly meets with Amish here; they offer their prayers

By Jack Brubaker
Lancaster New Era

Published: Jul 16, 2004 "Lancaster Online" -- LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - President Bush met privately with a group of Old Order Amish during his visit to Lancaster County last Friday. He discussed their farms and their hats and his religion. He asked them to vote for him in November.

The Amish told the president that not all members of the church vote but they would pray for him.

Bush had tears in his eyes when he replied. He said the president needs their prayers. He also said that having a strong belief in God is the only way he can do his job.

This story has not been reported before. You might think an observant press follows the president everywhere, especially during a re-election campaign, but no reporter attended this meeting.

Sam Stoltzfus, an Old Order historian and writer who lives in Gordonville, spoke with a number of people present at the session with the president.

He related what happened to the Scribbler, saying the Amish ?caught Bush?s heart.??

The 20-minute meeting with Bush occurred immediately after the president addressed a select audience at Lapp Electric Service in Smoketown Friday afternoon.

An Amish woman who lives on a farm across Witmer Road from Lapp Electric that morning had presented a quilt to the president with a card thanking him for his leadership of the country.

Bush said he would like to talk to the quilter and her family.

So the Secret Service invited the family to meet the president. Friends wanted to come along, and the entire assembly eventually numbered about 60. They were evenly divided between adults and children of all ages.

The group walked together across the road to Lapp Electric.

Stoltzfus reports: ?It took a while to get them through the metal detectors as these were farmers and shop men, with vice grips, pocket knives, and nuts and bolts in their pockets. Some ladies had baby gear. All pockets had to be emptied.??

When the Amish were ?found not to be a serious threat to national security,?? they were allowed inside the office area of Lapp Electric and waited about 30 minutes for the president to appear.

?Babies got restless. Children squirmed,?? Stoltzfus reports. ?Suddenly the president and five Secret Service men stepped into the room. One housewife said, ?Are you George Bush????

The president replied in the affirmative and shook hands all around, asking the names of all. He especially thanked the ?quilt frau,?? who operates her own business selling quilts and crafts.

?He seemed relaxed and just like an old neighbor,?? says Stoltzfus.

Bush said he had never met any Amish before and was curious about why the men were wearing straw hats rather than black wool hats. The Amish explained that they wear cooler straw in summer. Bush tried on a hat.

The president commented on the appearance of Amish farms, and an Amish man spoke apologetically about how he and his friends were not expecting to see the president and were wearing soiled work clothes. Bush said he did not mind that.

Another man remarked that he has twin daughters, as does Bush. The man said one of his twins had dreamed the night before that she was shaking hands with the president and now she actually had done that.

?One of the young girls wanted to give Bush a whoopie pie cookie,?? Stoltzfus says. ?Bush declined it. The Secret Service man took it, as presidents aren?t supposed to eat untested food.??

At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, ?I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn?t do my job.??

As the president left the room, one Amish man wished him good luck in November.

?The Amish group headed back to their farms and shops,?? reports Stoltzfus. ?Mothers took their children home for a nap and went back to their sewing and gardens.??

Bush moved along to an appearance in York County, leaving behind a group of Old Order admirers who have tales to tell for the rest of their lives.

The Scribbler column runs Tuesdays and Fridays in the New Era.

© 2004 Lancaster Newspapers

Crick

10-08-2005, 02:15 PM

Top fifteen matches from google search:

Matching Sites About This
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Crick

10-08-2005, 02:17 PM

And with that I'm out of this thread....for now ;)

Ga-PEACH

10-08-2005, 02:48 PM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

I have not heard a more TRUTHFUL statement than this one. Thank you for acknowledging this. I mean our society stinks when it comes to God, I know I would rather be led by a christian Man w/morals who is not afraid to admit his beliefs than by an immoral thinker!!So sorry but too many people on this board bash Bush and all republicans and it is just ENOUGH already!!! Go ahead guys bash me!! I will not lose any sleep, in fact my beliefs allow me to sleep at night, knowing that what I feel and the way I was raised is moral!!!

Shann

10-08-2005, 03:42 PM

You know there is a medical condition where you hear voices and do as they direct you to do....I believe it is what we know as schizophrenia

:eek: LOL

stresseater

10-08-2005, 04:11 PM

I have not heard a more TRUTHFUL statement than this one. Thank you for acknowledging this. I mean our society stinks when it comes to God, I know I would rather be led by a christian Man w/morals who is not afraid to admit his beliefs than by an immoral thinker!!So sorry but too many people on this board bash Bush and all republicans and it is just ENOUGH already!!! Go ahead guys bash me!! I will not lose any sleep, in fact my beliefs allow me to sleep at night, knowing that what I feel and the way I was raised is moral!!!
ITA, he talks to God and God guides him what is so abominal about that. Oh I know.... he is willing to admit it publically whereas most alleged"Christians" would say oh no way.... God doesn't speak through me. His will is done daily by people and in this way he is speaking through us.

Karen5111

10-08-2005, 05:17 PM

I would rather have a President who has an intimate relationship with God than one who has an intimate relationship with an intern young enough to be his daughter. And at least Mr. Bush knows the meaning of the word IT.
He is a very moral and good man.
Oh, and if you dont think that God would directly involve himself with wars or human destruction, pick up your King James version and read about Sodom and Gamora, or the Battle of Jericho, etc. And be sure to go to the Book of Revelations and read about the destruction that will be poured down on those still here during the Tribulation. God and His Believers will be directly involved in the grand finale battle at the end. You are wrong if you believe that God would not direct a person to go into battle against evildoers.

june72

10-08-2005, 05:27 PM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

ITA :)

YankeeMary

10-08-2005, 05:51 PM

these people are PSYCHOTIC and are usually slinging their poop while they are talking about what "God" told them to do or not to do... let me know when Bush starts playing with and slinging poop........then i might believe he's psycho
You are so very WRONG here, I find it hard to believe that someone really can believe that because people are psychotic they sling their poop. I am sickened by your comment. For someone who is so well educated as you normally seem to be, I can't believe that you would say something so off the wall. How many psychotic people have you been around? How many did you see slinging poop? My stepdaughter has been phychotic on numerous occassions, more than we can actually count AND I HAVE NEVER SEE HER SLING POOP. I have been around ALOT of consumers (psychotic ones) that never slung their poop. If I am not mistaken you are in the medical field, such a shame you think such a thing and then post it on a public forum for thousands to read, its not like the mentally ill don't already have enough stigma to battle. I think it is fair to say that there are ALOT of psychotic people that think God tells them to kill, think they are God or are even pregant by God. Then again there are alot that think the say about the devil, it just depends on their upbringings mostly. Just because someone is psychotic doesn't mean they play in their own feces.

cSoReNSoN

10-08-2005, 06:45 PM

What happened to separation of church and state???????

mesue

10-09-2005, 02:51 AM

Some of you hear the word God and think it all is good, well it depends on whether the person using the word God is good and goes by his teachings now doesn't it? If evil came to you wrapped up in a package that said evil on it most of you would run away but if it comes to you wrapped in a package thats says God on it you bow and praise it and never question it. A preacher I know once said that the most evil people on God's green earth would present themselves as God fearing God loving people while all the time they used him like a cloak to hide their evil behind. I do not claim to be a christian but I do know the difference between good and evil and I do know the difference between a lying conniving so called christian and a real one.

Clue: Real christians would never condone torture or look for ways to make it legal.

YNKYH8R

10-09-2005, 07:49 AM

This (whole thread) is why I'm agnostic. If Bush believes God moves his hand, or even if he just talks to God for inspiration...so be it. Does it make him a better person..no. If being a believer in God made you a better person than Preists wouldn't rape. And the Christian Coalition wouldn't be so hard pressed about same sex marriage and abortion.
When you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. All you have to do is look at Northern Ireland, Cashmire, the Inquisition, the Crusades, and the World Trade Center to see how seriously the religious folks take thou shalt not kill. The more devout they are, the more they see murder as being negotiable. It depends on who's doin the killin' and who's gettin' killed.

Willow

10-09-2005, 08:22 AM

If Bush is a Christian than I am Pamela Anderson. :D Just because Bush "claims" to be a Christian doesn't make it true.

Tasha405

10-09-2005, 08:57 AM

Maybe "talk" was a bad choice of words for nitpickers... however, lots of ppl believe God "talks" to them -- or "leads them down a certain path". While I do not believe (or agree w/ the ppl that do) that he is making this war about religion, I do believe that he meant God sent him down this path just as God sends me down many paths in my life.

Also, the bible does very well say thou shalt not kill, but it also says there will be many wars before he returns.
ITA! I also know a lot of people who say God "talks" to them. No its not like sitting down with someone and chatting over a cup of coffee. Its different. He talks to them through their hearts I guess you could say. My MIL is one of these people and I truley believe her.

And why do some of yall say that Bush isn't or can't be a Christian? How do you know if he is or not? Not all Christians believe a certain way. What is ok for some people may not be for others. If he says he a christian then good for him. I'm not gonna judge him on it. :)

Njean31

10-09-2005, 10:39 AM

You are so very WRONG here, I find it hard to believe that someone really can believe that because people are psychotic they sling their poop. I am sickened by your comment. For someone who is so well educated as you normally seem to be, I can't believe that you would say something so off the wall. How many psychotic people have you been around? How many did you see slinging poop? My stepdaughter has been phychotic on numerous occassions, more than we can actually count AND I HAVE NEVER SEE HER SLING POOP. I have been around ALOT of consumers (psychotic ones) that never slung their poop. If I am not mistaken you are in the medical field, such a shame you think such a thing and then post it on a public forum for thousands to read, its not like the mentally ill don't already have enough stigma to battle. I think it is fair to say that there are ALOT of psychotic people that think God tells them to kill, think they are God or are even pregant by God. Then again there are alot that think the say about the devil, it just depends on their upbringings mostly. Just because someone is psychotic doesn't mean they play in their own feces.

yes, i am in the medical field and the extent of my contact with psychotic individuals were in a (large) jail. DO NOT ASSUME THAT I AM MAKING FUN OF OR STEREOTYPING THESE PEOPLE........even if i weren't in the medical field i would NEVER MAKE FUN OR ADD TO THEIR STIGMA..... you have no idea. the point i was trying to make is that if GEORGE BUSH HAS PSYCHOSIS WE ALL WOULD KNOW IT BY HIS ACTIONS hence........poop slinging......rocking back and forth......hollering....being violent...DOING THINGS THAT SANE PEOPLE DO NOT DO.
how many psychotic people have i been around? let me think........probably around 400-500..........and out of them maybe a quarter played in their feces (boredom probably had alot to do with this because they were in jail), the others would take their clothes off and stay naked 24/7 and play in/with their orifices, some would constantly ramble inchoerantly (sp), others would play in the toilet, others would repetitively bang their heads on the wall.........i could go on and on.............THINGS YOU DON'T SEE GEORGE BUSH DOING. I WAS NOT IN THE MOOD TO POST ALL OF THE ABOVE WHEN MADE THE COMMENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO SO I JUST SAID LET ME KNOW WHEN HE STARTS THAT CAUSE THEN WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE

and it is fair to say that alot of psychotic people hear GOD telling them to do this or that..........Andrea Yates would be one...........

the bottom line is GEORGE BUSH IS NOT PSYCHOTIC

I hope your step daughter was hospitalized during her psychotic episodes and you/she/your family should be thankful she's not one of the ones who do play in their feces

YankeeMary

10-09-2005, 10:55 AM

yes, i am in the medical field and the extent of my contact with psychotic individuals were in a (large) jail. DO NOT ASSUME THAT I AM MAKING FUN OF OR STEREOTYPING THESE PEOPLE........even if i weren't in the medical field i would NEVER MAKE FUN OR ADD TO THEIR STIGMA..... you have no idea. the point i was trying to make is that if GEORGE BUSH HAS PSYCHOSIS WE ALL WOULD KNOW IT BY HIS ACTIONS hence........poop slinging......rocking back and forth......hollering....being violent...DOING THINGS THAT SANE PEOPLE DO NOT DO.
how many psychotic people have i been around? let me think........probably around 400-500..........and out of them maybe a quarter played in their feces (boredom probably had alot to do with this because they were in jail), the others would take their clothes off and stay naked 24/7 and play in/with their orifices, some would constantly ramble inchoerantly (sp), others would play in the toilet, others would repetitively bang their heads on the wall.........i could go on and on.............THINGS YOU DON'T SEE GEORGE BUSH DOING. I WAS NOT IN THE MOOD TO POST ALL OF THE ABOVE WHEN MADE THE COMMENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO SO I JUST SAID LET ME KNOW WHEN HE STARTS THAT CAUSE THEN WE'LL KNOW FOR SURE

and it is fair to say that alot of psychotic people hear GOD telling them to do this or that..........Andrea Yates would be one...........

the bottom line is GEORGE BUSH IS NOT PSYCHOTIC

I hope your step daughter was hospitalized during her psychotic episodes and you/she/your family should be thankful she's not one of the ones who do play in their feces
Of course she was hospitalized. I really have nothing to add but felt the need to reply to you and I am still disappointed that you chose poop slinging to make your point about pychosis, it truly is a shame, whether you want to see it or not.

Crick

10-09-2005, 11:11 AM

http://www.medicinenet.com/psychotic_disorders/article.htm

Psychotic Disorders
What are the symptoms of a psychotic disorder?
What causes psychotic disorders?
How common are psychotic disorders?
How are psychotic disorders diagnosed?
How are psychotic disorders treated?
How long does it take to get better?
What is the outlook for people with psychotic disorders?
Can psychotic disorders be prevented?
Psychotic disorders are a group of serious illnesses that affect the mind. These illnesses alter a person's ability to think clearly, make good judgments, respond emotionally, communicate effectively, understand reality and behave appropriately. When symptoms are severe, people with psychotic disorders have difficulty staying in touch with reality and often are unable to meet the ordinary demands of daily life. However, even the most severe psychotic disorders usually are treatable.

There are different types of psychotic disorders, including:

Schizophrenia : People with this illness have changes in behavior and other symptoms -- such as delusions and hallucinations -- that last longer than six months, usually with a decline in work, school and social functioning.
Schizoaffective disorder : People with this illness have symptoms of schizophrenia, as well as a serious mood or affective disorder, such as severe depression , mania (a disorder marked by periods of excessive energy) or bipolar disorder (a disorder with cyclical periods of depression and mania).
Schizophreniform disorder : People with this illness have symptoms of schizophrenia, but the symptoms last less than six months.
Brief psychotic disorder : People with this illness have sudden, short periods of psychotic behavior, often in response to a very stressful event, such as a death in the family. Recovery is often quick -- usually less than a month.
Delusional disorder: People with this illness have delusions involving real-life situations that could be true, such as being followed, being conspired against or having a disease. These delusions persist for at least one month.
Shared psychotic disorder: This illness occurs when a person develops delusions in the context of a relationship with another person who already has his or her own delusion(s).
Substance-induced psychotic disorder: This condition is caused by the use of or withdrawal from some substances, such as alcohol and crack cocaine, that may cause hallucinations, delusions or confused speech.
Psychotic disorder due to a medical condition: Hallucinations, delusions or other symptoms may be the result of another illness that affects brain function, such as a head injury or brain tumor.
Paraphrenia: This is a type of schizophrenia that starts late in life and occurs in the elderly population.
What Are the Symptoms of a Psychotic Disorder?

Symptoms vary from person to person and may change over time. The major symptoms of psychotic disorders are hallucinations and delusions.

Hallucinations are unusual sensory experiences or perceptions of things that aren't actually present, such as seeing things that aren't there, hearing voices, smelling odors, having a "funny" taste in your mouth and feeling sensations on your skin even though nothing is touching your body.

Delusions are false beliefs that are persistent and organized, and that do not go away after receiving logical or accurate information. For example, a person who is certain his or her food is poisoned, even if it has been proven that the food is fine, is suffering from a delusion.

Other possible symptoms of psychotic illnesses include:

Disorganized or incoherent speech
Confused thinking
Strange, possibly dangerous behavior
Slowed or unusual movements
Loss of interest in personal hygiene
Loss of interest in activities
Problems at school or work and with relationships
Cold, detached manner with the inability to express emotion
Mood swings or other mood symptoms, such as depression or mania

Njean31

10-09-2005, 11:23 AM

I am still disappointed that you chose poop slinging to make your point about pychosis, it truly is a shame, whether you want to see it or not.

sorry your disappointed...........i probably choose it because i've seen it a lot.

katgirl3

10-09-2005, 10:15 PM

mesue

10-10-2005, 04:36 AM

Katgirl3 no one has to search for something to make President George W. Bush look stupid all we have to do is listen whenever he opens his mouth.

And everytime he says one more dumb thing I take comfort in the fact that at least I did not vote for him, you obviously can't do that.

Crick

10-10-2005, 07:08 AM

I haven't participated in one of these political threads for quite awhile. But this one caught my eye. I liken it to a thread that was posted some time ago that said the U.S. was actually responsible for 9/11. Apparently we used remote control planes. :rolleyes: It's soooo ridiculous and I find it hard to believe anyone buys into this crap. But the sad fact is , they do. The left is so very angry that G.W. was re elected, they have to keep combing the internet for anything they think might make him look stupid. And it doesn't even matter whether it's true or not. Or that it has the opposite effect and in fact makes them look stupid for believing such rubbish. ;)

I'm starting to feel sorry for the lefty's. Their obsession is unhealthy. It must be hard waking up everyday knowing Bush is STILL president and there's nothing they can do about it except....be angry for another day. It must really suck to be them. :cool:

BTW Ga-PEACH...love your siggy. ;) :)

golly geepers, thank you for educating us stupid, left wing, immoral, angry liberals. It does my heart so good to know that the right wing conservatives have cornered the market on Christiananity . Didn't realize that I was so angry and lost sleep because Bush was re-elected. :rolleyes: Guess all that there upbringing my parents did with taking me to church just didn't take since obviously I can't pray or believe in God because I'm a liberal. Then again I am just a dumb, immoral, angry, commie, tree-hugging, judgemental, uncompassionate Southerner raised in the Baptist Church who believes in equality for all people regardless of race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, or intelligence but I'll certainly sleep better tonight since I've been shown the light by the right wing Conservative party (formally the Republican Party). :eek:

mesue: Katgirl3 no one has to search for something to make President George W. Bush look stupid all we have to do is listen whenever he opens his mouth.

And everytime he says one more dumb thing I take comfort in the fact that at least I did not vote for him, you obviously can't do that.

ITA (since I just ain't got the smarts to think for myself) ;)

Patchouli: If Bush is a Christian than I am Pamela Anderson. Just because Bush "claims" to be a Christian doesn't make it true.

You are 100 times better than Pamela Anderson and 1000 times more of a lady.

janelle

10-10-2005, 01:37 PM

I searched Snopes for an answer to this. I know recently the man who said Bush told him that God speaks to him and told him to go to war had refuted it. Said his words were misunderstood by the media. DUH, you mean they did it again?????? LOL

I did find this article on Snopes---------some think people who have a REAL belief in God are wacko. Too bad since most Americans do believe in God and pray. Radical liberals cannot understand this and that is why they lose elections. They think a belief in God is psychotic. Oh well, here is the article--

http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/vincent.asp

I think Bush is the real thing and that scares some people while it helps most to elect him and believe he has our best interests at heart.

YNKYH8R

10-10-2005, 01:53 PM

I think that he's given every republican who comes after him an easy in. Just use the three G's (guns, God, and gays) and your in the oval office.

iluvmybaby

10-10-2005, 02:35 PM

Bush is sad, sick.....and just plain WRONG all around, I wouldnt doubt that he would say something like that :mad:

katgirl3

10-10-2005, 02:56 PM

golly geepers, thank you for educating us stupid, left wing, immoral, angry liberals. It does my heart so good to know that the right wing conservatives have cornered the market on Christiananity . Didn't realize that I was so angry and lost sleep because Bush was re-elected. :rolleyes: Guess all that there upbringing my parents did with taking me to church just didn't take since obviously I can't pray or believe in God because I'm a liberal. Then again I am just a dumb, immoral, angry, commie, tree-hugging, judgemental, uncompassionate Southerner raised in the Baptist Church who believes in equality for all people regardless of race, creed, sex, sexual orientation, or intelligence but I'll certainly sleep better tonight since I've been shown the light by the right wing Conservative party (formally the Republican Party). :eek:

mesue: Katgirl3 no one has to search for something to make President George W. Bush look stupid all we have to do is listen whenever he opens his mouth.

And everytime he says one more dumb thing I take comfort in the fact that at least I did not vote for him, you obviously can't do that.

ITA (since I just ain't got the smarts to think for myself) ;)

Patchouli: If Bush is a Christian than I am Pamela Anderson. Just because Bush "claims" to be a Christian doesn't make it true.

You are 100 times better than Pamela Anderson and 1000 times more of a lady.

You're welcome. :)

mosdata1

10-10-2005, 02:57 PM

I must say, I am a christian, and a republican and I didn't vote for Bush. I have a hard time reconciling the 2 images he presents: he says he's for freedom, but took away (not him personally, but his cohorts) the democrates right to vote in FL. I personally know people who went to the polls to vote & were turned away for bogus reasons. 2 weeks after the election, they were all told it was a 'mistake' and their right to vote was reinstated (convenient huh?) A man who calls himself a christian, but shows himself to be a liar over & over again (his DUI in New England & then getting a new DL, 'They have weapons of mass destruction', etc.). He has one standard of judgment for his friends another for the rest of the world (Ken Lay is still living large & an entire company, Arthur Anderson is no longer in business, even Enron is still around. - by the way Anderson supplied the Gov't with all the papers that Enron thought they destroyed. Anderson, like any other auditing company had fully backed up the info.)

I could go on and on.

Do I believe Bush is a christian? By his fruits, I must say no. The bible tells us that we shall know them by their fruits & his crop is full of lies, injustice, war mongering and favoritism.

tngirl

10-10-2005, 04:01 PM

Willow

10-10-2005, 05:12 PM

You are 100 times better than Pamela Anderson and 1000 times more of a lady.

Ahh thanks, Crick! ;)

Crick

10-11-2005, 06:07 AM

And the day I actually believe Bush is doing what God told him is the day the guys with the cute white jackets take me away to the padded rooms (which is where Bush belongs.) Amazing how he only invokes God and religion when he is in serious trouble, thanks to his buddy Karl Rove, (re-election, ratings down the drain, trying to get his buddies confirmed, etc.). As I said before, the God I believe in does not condone lying or killing regardless of all the rhetoric his followers spout. For them to say they are following God's orders sends a chill down my spine. The Bible speaks of false prophets during the end of times and to be careful of them for they will lead the lambs to the slaughter. Sounds very familiar. But then I'll leave it to God to judge as we are also taught to judge not least we be judged. The only thing scarier than Bush being President is Cheney taking his place so I guess it is the lesser of two evils to allow Bush to remain as President. Probably should be in the Religious forum anyway seeing as how Bush claims to be the chosen one. :rolleyes:

Patchouli, I've seen your picture and read enough of your posts. Stand by what I posted earlier. ;)

Willow

10-11-2005, 06:40 AM

Patchouli, I've seen your picture and read enough of your posts. Stand by what I posted earlier. ;)

Actually I think I look more like Anna Nicole than I do Pamela Anderson. :D

janelle

10-11-2005, 11:18 AM

Claim: E-mail describes Bruce Vincent's encounter with President Bush in the White House.

Status: Incomplete.

Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2004]

For those of us who sometimes find ourselves having doubts about our President, here is an excellent piece — worth every minute it takes to read it.

This is from a man, Bruce Vincent, from Montana who received an award from the President.

He writes: I've written the following narrative to chronicle the day of the award ceremony in DC. I'm still working on a press release but the White House press corps has yet to provide a photo to go with it. When the photo comes I'll ship it out. When you get done reading this you'll understand the dilemma I face in telling this story beyond my circle of close friends.

The moment with the President in the Oval Office was incredible. I want to protect the memory because it was an intensely private moment between two men. At the same time I'd like to share it on a broader scale because I'd like others to know what I know about the man sitting at the desk in the Oval Office. For now, I'll just tell it to you folks.

As you know, our efforts concerning the reintroduction of our rural, resource providing cultures to the ever more urbane society of our nation has been honored with an award from the President and First Lady Bush. Nominated by the Forest Service for the first ever Preserve America President's Award was our cultural exchange program Provider PalsT and our restoration of an abandoned CCC built Forest Service ranger station (Raven Ranger Station) for use as a learning center for students from throughout the nation that are now engaged in our cultural exchange. The award was given at a White House ceremony on Monday, May 3. Guests at the East Room ceremony (the Rose Garden was going to be used but it rained) included Secretary of Interior Gorton, Secretary of Agriculture Venneman, Undersecretary Mark Rey, Chief Bosworth, President's Advisory Council for Preserve America, and others. The East Wing was closed to the public for the event and those who attended enjoyed brunch and live chamber music.

Provider PalsT was able to bring members of our board of directors, staff from our partner Communities for a Great Northwest, our Kootenai Forest Supervisor and Forest Archaeologist, and two officials from our major sponsor Ford Motor Company. Thankfully, I was also able to bring PJ and all four children. In the East Room, Secretaries Venneman and Gorton spoke as did First Lady Bush and Preserve America's Chairman John Nau. The First Lady then gave autographed copies of a White House book to award winners in this ceremony and posed for pictures. When the ceremony concluded, the First Lady stayed for a bit in the Green Room and chatted and posed for pictures. She was then escorted outside to meet the President and board a Marine One helicopter waiting to whisk them off to the airport.

For me, however, the biggest event of the day had already happened when the East Room Ceremony started up. While the East Room ceremony was being prepared, the four national award winners and the entities that nominated them were taken to the Oval Office for the official award presentation by President Bush and First Lady Bush. There were eight of us in total. Stepping into the Oval Office, each of us was introduced to the President and Mrs. Bush. We shook hands and participated in small talk. When the President was told that we were from Libby, Montana, I reminded him that Marc Racicot is our native son and the President offered his warm thoughts about Governor Racicot.

I have to tell you, I was blown away by two things upon entering the office. First, the Oval Office sense of 'place' is unreal. The President later shared a story of Russian President Putin entering the room prepared to tackle the President in a tough negotiation and upon entering the atheist muttered his first words to the President and they were "Oh, my God." I concurred. I could feel the history in my bones. Second, the man that inhabits the office engaged me with a firm handshake and a look that can only be described as penetrating. Warm, alive, fully engaged, disarmingly penetrating. I was admittedly concerned about meeting the man.

I think all of us have an inner hope that the most powerful man in our country is worthy of the responsibility and authority that we bestow upon them through our vote. I admit that part of me was afraid that I would be let down by the moment — that the person and the place could not meet the lofty expectations of my fantasy world. This says nothing about my esteem for President Bush but just my practical realization that reality may not match my 'dream.'

Once inside the office, President Bush got right down to business and, standing in front of his desk, handed out the awards one at a time while posing for photos with the winners and Mrs. Bush. With the mission accomplished, the President and Mrs. Bush relaxed and initiated a lengthy, informal conversation about a number of things with our entire small group. He and the First Lady talked about such things as the rug in the office. It is traditionally designed by the First Lady to make a statement about the President, and Mrs. Bush chose a brilliant yellow sunburst pattern to reflect 'hope.' President Bush talked about the absolute need to believe that with hard work and faith in God there is every reason to start each day in the Oval Office with hope.

He and the First Lady were asked about the impact of the Presidency on their marriage and, with an arm casually wrapped around Laura, he said that he thought the place may be hard on weak marriages but that it had the ability to make strong marriages even stronger and that he was blessed with a strong one. When asked what the biggest challenge of the Presidency was, he talked about the daily frustration of partisan politics. 'This from a politician,' he said. He said that when he was elected he promised that he would do in DC what he had done in Texas and that was build alliances and coalitions that bridged party lines in order to move the nation forward. He had quickly learned that there are those in the nation's capital that would rather see the nation dismantled than work together to achieve a common good. That, he said is a bitter and continuing disappointment.

The President talked about the artwork and other items of interest in the room. For instance the desk he uses is the one that was given to the U.S. by Queen Victoria and used by FDR and JFK. In fact FDR had a front panel added to the desk to cover the mid section because FDR did not want the country to know he was in a wheelchair. President Bush laughed and said, "My how things have changed, FDR hid a wheelchair and if I eat a pretzel and get a tingle in my arm it's front page news around the globe." That little desk faux front is hinged by the way, and is the door that we all have seen John-John sticking his head from behind in the famous photo of JFK at work.

The President also noted that much of the artwork in the office is from Texas or about Texas. He said that it made sense for him to have it in his office because Texas is part of who he is. He talked about family and place and faith helping to build the person you end up being and noted that the Oval Office reflected who he is. He noted that it would be a mistake to come to the Oval Office and entertain a mission to 'find yourself.' He said that with all of the pressures and responsibilities that go with the job, you'd best know who you are when you put your nameplate on the desk in the Oval Office. He said he knows who he is and now America has had four years to learn about who he is. If they like what they see, he may have another four years. If not, then he may be going back to Texas.

Continued------

janelle

10-11-2005, 11:20 AM

After about 30 or 35 minutes, it was time to go. By then we were all relaxed and I felt as if I had just had an excellent visit with a friend. The President and First Lady made one more pass down the line of awardees, shaking hands and offering congratulations. When the President shook my hand I said, "thank you Mr. President and God bless you and your family." He was already in motion to the next person in line, but he stopped abruptly, turned fully back to me, gave me a piercing look, renewed the vigor of his handshake and said, "Thank you — and God bless you and yours as well."

On our way out of the office we were to leave by the glass doors on the west side of the office. I was the last person in the exit line. As I shook his hand one final time, President Bush said, "I'll be sure to tell Marc hello and give him your regards."

I then did something that surprised even me. I said to him, "Mr. President, I know you are a busy man and your time is precious. I also know you to be a man of strong faith and have a favor to ask you."

As he shook my hand he looked me in the eye and said, "Just name it."

I told him that my step-Mom was at that moment in a hospital in Kalispell, Montana, having a tumor removed from her skull and it would mean a great deal to me if he would consider adding her to his prayers that day.

He grabbed me by the arm and took me back toward his desk as he said, "So that's it. I could tell that something is weighing heavy on your heart today. I could see it in your eyes. This explains it."

From the top drawer of his desk he retrieved a pen and a note card with his seal on it and asked, "How do you spell her name?" He then jotted a note to her while discussing the importance of family and the strength of prayer. When he handed me the card, he asked about the surgery and the prognosis. I told him we were hoping that it is not a recurrence of an earlier cancer and that if it is they can get it all with this surgery.

He said, "If it's okay with you, we'll take care of the prayer right now. Would you pray with me?" I told him yes and he turned to the staff that remained in the office and hand motioned the folks to step back or leave.

He said, "Bruce and I would like some private time for a prayer."

As they left he turned back to me and took my hands in his. I was prepared to do a traditional prayer stance — standing with each other with heads bowed. Instead, he reached for my head with his right hand and pulling gently forward, he placed my head on his shoulder. With his left arm on my mid back, he pulled me to him in a prayerful embrace. He started to pray softly. I started to cry. He continued his prayer for Loretta and for God's perfect will to be done. I cried some more. My body shook a bit as I cried and he just held tighter. He closed by asking God's blessing on Loretta and the family during the coming months.

I stepped away from our embrace, wiped my eyes, swiped at the tears I'd left on his shoulder, and looked into the eyes of our President. I thanked him as best I could and told him that me and my family would continue praying for he and his.

As I write this account down and reflect upon what it means, I have to tell you that all I really know is that his simple act left me humbled and believing. I so hoped that the man I thought him to be was the man that he is. I know that our nation needs a man such as this in the Oval Office.

George W. Bush is the real deal. I've read Internet stories about the President praying with troops in hospitals and other such uplifting accounts. Each time I read them I hope them to be true and not an Internet perpetuated myth. This one, I know to be true. I was there. He is real. He has a pile of incredible stuff on his plate each day - and yet he is tuned in so well to the here and now that he 'sensed' something heavy on my heart. He took time out of his life to care, to share, and to seek God's blessing for my family in a simple man-to-man, father-to-father, son-to-son, husband-to-husband, Christian-to-Christian prayerful embrace.

He's not what I had hoped he would be. He is, in fact, so very, very much more

Origins: Research in progress.

Last updated: 23 September 2004

Crick

10-11-2005, 12:45 PM

The above article can be found at www.snopes.com and shows it is still being researched. Cannot be confirmed as true or false. Last updated 9/23/2004. ;)

firechic

10-11-2005, 02:10 PM

Who are you all, to decide who is or isn't a Christian? You're sure giving the rest of us a bad name. Judge not, ya know?

BigLyd1

10-11-2005, 03:33 PM

Hmmm, I cant think of anyone better to take direction from than God. And how cool it is to have a president who is not too busy to listen.

I say amen to that. And for all of you who are so concerned, whether you support him or not (and sounds like most of you don't), say a prayer for him.

It just never ceases to amaze me how much people hate that man.

mesue

10-11-2005, 04:05 PM

Oh no, not the you people hate him again and thats why you are so mean about him. It's really touching (well thats one word any way) how so many of you have such undying loyalty to a man who would not care if you dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow or anytime for that matter.

Here is a comment from one of Bush's former professers, read the whole article I'm sure you will find it enlightening(an excerpt from an article) that is if some of you can stand the thought of seeing the image you have of him shattered.

“I vividly remember that he made a comment saying that people are poor because they’re lazy,” Tsurumi said.
Here is the link http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=503181

Njean31

10-11-2005, 04:07 PM

I say amen to that. And for all of you who are so concerned, whether you support him or not (and sounds like most of you don't), say a prayer for him.

most of the ones on here who don't support him don't pray to begin with because they don't believe in God so unfortunately that ain't gonna happen. before i get attacked..........I SAID MOST....not all :)

Karen5111

10-11-2005, 05:18 PM

YNKYH8R said, "And the Christian Coalition wouldn't be so hard pressed about same sex marriage and abortion.
When you think about it, religion has never really had a big problem with murder. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. "

I think you are a bit confused, it is hypocritical to blame the Christians for KILLING in the name of God, and at the same time blame them for being against abortion. Obviously you do not consider the murder of inoccent babies to be MURDER. And not for the sake of religion, or a cause, but simply for convenience. I would guess more through abortion more babies have been killed in the name of convenience than for any other reason. I am a born again Christian and I DO have a problem with murder, especially of those unable to speak or fight for their life.

Willow

10-11-2005, 05:42 PM

The above article can be found at www.snopes.com and shows it is still being researched. Cannot be confirmed as true or false. Last updated 9/23/2004. ;)

I was also going to mention that fact. That's why it says incomplete.

Willow

10-11-2005, 05:44 PM

Who are you all, to decide who is or isn't a Christian? You're sure giving the rest of us a bad name. Judge not, ya know?

I think it's Bush who's giving you all a bad name. If that is how Christians are supposed to be I can see why a lot of people don't want anything to do with it.

Njean31

10-11-2005, 06:11 PM

I think it's Bush who's giving you all a bad name. If that is how Christians are supposed to be I can see why a lot of people don't want anything to do with it.

Bush ALONE is giving Christianity a bad name? what about in Jim Jones day, or Billy Swaggart, or David Koresh, or Jim Baker and the list goes on and on.........i heard the same thing said about them during "their turn" for everyone to think that ALL CHRISTIANS must be that way.

every group of people has thier nuts for everyone else to ASSUME the whole group must be that way.........not that i think Bush is a nut :)

janelle

10-11-2005, 08:20 PM

Starlady01

10-12-2005, 03:39 AM

I think I know what he ment by that comment, Bush was into the church before becoming president.
Not saying that everyone who goes to church knows what he may have ment but some do.

YNKYH8R

10-12-2005, 06:35 AM

YNKYH8R

10-12-2005, 06:38 AM

I chose to believe the article, you chose not to. It's a free country.

But Bush somehow conjures up so much hate it's puzzling. They even had a book out during the election about how to assinate Bush.

I would say Bush is very Christian not to react to these wackos. The more people diss him the more I like his reactions to it. He turns the other cheek and ignores it.
Of course he's not going to comment on it. He's the president what do you think he's going to do confront them like Tom Cruise when had water splashed in his face?

girlwithsoul

10-12-2005, 09:26 AM

But Bush somehow conjures up so much hate it's puzzling. They even had a book out during the election about how to assinate Bush.

Not puzzling.....all you right wingers hated Clinton just as much if not MORE and he didn't kill a bunch of people....just had a little too much fun.

Willow

10-12-2005, 10:20 AM

Not puzzling.....all you right wingers hated Clinton just as much if not MORE and he didn't kill a bunch of people....just had a little too much fun.

At least he was making love and not war. :D

janelle

10-12-2005, 01:06 PM

girlwithsoul

10-12-2005, 03:04 PM

Actually, I just ignored Clinton during his tenure. I can't understand why the ones who did not vote for Bush can't ignore him. He's going to be president for the rest of his term so why not just get use to it and settle down. No sense in getting hateful about it.

IGNORE the President????? Seriously???? I'm sorry but I definitely won't be ignoring the man who's supposed to be running the country I live in whether I voted for him or not. It's doubly important as I really don't believe he's doing what's right for his country and his "people". Clinton created a surplus for this government's budget which has quickly increased and his jobless rate was better. Not to mention no war and this country also didn't seem so divided over religion.

Karen5111

10-12-2005, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by girlwithsoul
"Not puzzling.....all you right wingers hated Clinton just as much if not MORE and he didn't kill a bunch of people....just had a little too much fun."

Oh he did more than have fun---- He was definitly a big JOKE. He lied before the Grand Jury, which if any of us did that we would have our butts in jail. He embarrassed his wife and daughter, and also embarrassed the nation. And dont forget that war was brought to us--in the form of 9/11. The terrorists thought our country was pretty weak after eight years of Clinton ignoring the terrorst attacks on our buildings, our military ships, etc. Well, it took the "Burning Bush" to prove that we are not weak. And have you noticed there have been no more attacks ON OUR SOIL?? Our jobless rate is low, the economy is doing well considering we were in a RECESSION when Clinton left office. All in all, Bush is handiling things pretty well. Karen

jcw

10-12-2005, 08:54 PM

Oh he did more than have fun---- He was definitly a big JOKE. He lied before the Grand Jury, which if any of us did that we would have our butts in jail. He embarrassed his wife and daughter, and also embarrassed the nation. And dont forget that war was brought to us--in the form of 9/11. The terrorists thought our country was pretty weak after eight years of Clinton ignoring the terrorst attacks on our buildings, our military ships, etc. Well, it took the "Burning Bush" to prove that we are not weak. And have you noticed there have been no more attacks ON OUR SOIL?? Our jobless rate is low, the economy is doing well considering we were in a RECESSION when Clinton left office. All in all, Bush is handiling things pretty well. Karen[/QUOTE]

Bush just lied about wmd... Iraq being behind 911 ... He lied to congress, senate, and the world....At least Clinton's lies didn't cost lives . NO the war was not brought to us. 911 had NOTHING to do with Iraq. The two are not connected.................

janelle

10-12-2005, 11:57 PM

Crick

10-13-2005, 05:58 AM

Even Clinton was saying they had WMD so everyone believed it and if not then why didn't Saddam let the UN inspect where they wanted to? That was kinda dumb of him.

And Bush did NOT say God told him to invade Iraq. But the Burning Bush, I like that. LOL

Only non-religious people think Bush uses religion. Those who are truly religious know he doesn't. In this case you have to be one to know one. And we know he is genuine. To us religion is not a bad word it is a wonderful word. Ony radical liberals will not understand that and how far out of the mainstream to the public they are.

For the record I am very religious. Get your facts straight! I pray every night that God will give Bush the wisdom to do what is right. I also pray for the safety of our troops and that they will be home soon. I am also liberal and proud of it. Don't be making blanket statements about people. Lot's of religious people (just because they don't practice your religion) do not support Bush. And yes, Bush has made the statement that God told him to invade Iraq on more than one occasion. Even telling the Amish community (article posted earlier) that God told him to invade Iraq during his re-election campaign. :mad:

excuseme

10-13-2005, 05:58 AM

How far does it have to go for us as a nation to finally wake up and admit we've been lied to about pretty much everything.

Crick

10-13-2005, 06:02 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9672058/

Bush approval dips below 40 percent
NBC-WSJ poll shows only 28 percent believe U.S. headed in right direction

• Bush's poll numbers continue to slide
Oct. 12: NBC Washington bureau chief Tim Russert discusses the results of the latest NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll with anchor Brian Williams.
Nightly News

Mark Murray
Political reporter

WASHINGTON - It has been weeks since Hurricane Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast; since gas prices began spiking to record highs; and since Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, held her antiwar vigil outside President Bush’s Texas ranch. But, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll, the fortunes of the Bush administration and the Republican Party have not yet begun to recover.

For the first time in the poll, Bush’s approval rating has sunk below 40 percent, while the percentage believing the country is heading in the right direction has dipped below 30 percent. In addition, a sizable plurality prefers a Democratic-controlled Congress, and just 29 percent think Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers is qualified to serve on the nation’s highest court.

"Any way you slice this data, I think these are just terrible sets of numbers," said Democratic pollster Peter D. Hart, who conducted this survey with Republican pollster Bill McInturff.

The poll shows that Bush’s approval rating stands at 39 percent, a new low for the president. In the last NBC/Wall Street Journal survey, which was released in mid-September, 40 percent approved of Bush’s job performance while 55 percent disapproved. In addition, just 28 percent believe the country is headed in the right direction, another all-time low in Bush’s presidency.

Strikingly, much has happened in the time between those two polls — many of them seemingly positive events for the White House. The president delivered a prime-time speech from New Orleans, in which he promised to rebuild the Gulf Coast. He also made several more visits to the region, to examine the damage caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. Furthermore, he saw the Senate confirm John Roberts to the Supreme Court, and he nominated Miers, his White House counsel, to replace retiring Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O’Connor.

‘Huge question mark’ on Miers
The Miers nomination, however, has disappointed some of the president’s conservative supporters, because they say she lacks judicial experience and a clear conservative record on social issues. According to the poll, 29 percent say she’s qualified to serve on the Supreme Court, while 24 percent think she’s unqualified. Forty-six percent say they don’t know enough about her.

"There is nothing to suggest that people have turned on her," Hart said. "But there is just a huge question mark behind her at this stage. She has to establish her own bona fides."

The poll, which has a margin of error of plus or minus 3.4 percentage points and which was conducted from Oct. 8-10 of 807 adults, also finds that strong majorities don’t believe that the recent charges against GOP leaders Tom DeLay of Texas and Bill Frist of Tennessee are politically motivated. Sixty-five percent say that DeLay’s indictment on charges of illegally using corporate contributions for political campaigns suggests potential illegal activity, while 24 percent say the indictment is politics as usual and has little merit. (Since his indictment, DeLay stepped down from his leadership position but still plays a prominent role in the U.S. House of Representatives.)

Meanwhile, 57 percent say Frist’s sale of stock in a company his family runs — just before the value of the stock declined — indicates potential illegal activity, compared with 28 percent who say the charge has little merit.

48 percent want Democratic-controlled Congress
In addition, with 13 months until the 2006 congressional elections, 48 percent say they prefer a Democratic-controlled Congress, compared with 39 percent who want the Republicans to control Capitol Hill. In fact, that nine-point difference is the largest margin between the parties in the 11 years the NBC/Journal poll has been tracking this question.

But Hart argues that Democrats aren’t necessarily responsible for this margin. "It is not that Democrats have done so well," he said. "It is that people are disgusted." McInturff puts it this way: "People are very turned off and unhappy with the state of play in American politics."

People also seem to be turned off and unhappy with high gas prices. According to the survey, 69 percent believe the worst is still to come with energy and fuel prices. Just 25 percent think the worst is behind us.

Because of this generally sour attitude, the NBC/Journal pollsters doubt that Bush will be able to climb out of his standing anytime soon. "His trampoline [is] made of cement," Hart said.

And while McInturff thinks that Bush’s approval rating actually may actually hover between 40 and 45 percent, he says that’s still problematic terrain from which to govern. "It is a very difficult place to be."

Mark Murray covers politics for NBC News.

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 06:56 AM

How far does it have to go for us as a nation to finally wake up and admit we've been lied to about pretty much everything.
Unfortunatly it is not that simple. As long as we're not getting bombed here people feel he is doing his job. We'll see we still have three years twenty one days to go.

janelle

10-13-2005, 09:26 AM

Karen5111

10-13-2005, 11:02 AM

Saddam had plenty of time (thanks to the UN) to get the WMD out of the country. Our intelligence has pictures of the white long vans moving into Syria and also Lebenon.( which was occupied at that time by Syria). But we cant get in there at this time to search. Obviously, he would have had them as he couldnt account for the stash he had when he used them to anihialate whole towns because they were of a different ethnic group than he was. He was supposed to let the UN know where he disposed of them, but he didnt and they didnt pursue it. There are scientists in Iraq showing us where they were and even said they were moved. And why didnt he let the UN investigators in, and why didnt they insist. Do you suppose they just let him slide while the head of the UN and his friends and family got rich off of our Oil for Food money ( sent in good faith to feed the starving Iraqi people). All of this was allowed to continue under the Clinton administration, he admitted that he knew there were WMD in Iraq. But since Saddam was given time by the UN to move them ( not destroy them as by law he was supposed to do) before we could get in to search. What we did find were countless mass graves occupied by men, women and children who had been tortured and gassed. We also found Saddams torture chambers which sickened the strongest of our soldiers. Did you see the pictures of the children who had been jailed over a year ( 12-17 years of age) because they would not join Saddam s youth army. Their mothers showed our soldiers where they were jailed and we used our tanks to pull the bars down. The children ran to their mothers , then to our soldiers, and the mothers gave flowers to our soldiers who stood crying while they watched. I watched it on Fox news, but did your alphabet channels show it (ABC< CBS< NBC<BBC) of course NOT.
Maybe IF God talked to Bush, that was one of the reasons why.

Also it is a good thing Noah listened when God talked to him, telling him there would be a flood covering the earth. To warn his neighbors and friends and family.to build an ark. Well, he and his family built it alone, no one believed that God would talk to a man llike Noah. Thank goodness he listened or we would not be here today since the earth was covered by a flood and Noah and his family were left to repopulate the earth. Some people do listen when God talks.

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 11:06 AM

Also it is a good thing Noah listened when God talked to him, telling him there would be a flood covering the earth. To warn his neighbors and friends and family.to build an ark. Well, he and his family built it alone, no one believed that God would talk to a man llike Noah. Thank goodness he listened or we would not be here today since the earth was covered by a flood and Noah and his family were left to repopulate the earth. Some people do listen when God talks.
Actually that is quite impossible there isn’t enough water on the planet to cover it in the fashion that is depicted in the Bible.

girlwithsoul

10-13-2005, 11:07 AM

Only non-religious people think Bush uses religion. Those who are truly religious know he doesn't. In this case you have to be one to know one. And we know he is genuine. To us religion is not a bad word it is a wonderful word. Ony radical liberals will not understand that and how far out of the mainstream to the public they are.

This is soooooooo not true! Point in case:

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush suggested Wednesday that Harriet Miers' evangelical Christian beliefs were part of the reason he nominated her to the Supreme Court."

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 11:09 AM

That's the point. WE AREN'T GETTING BOMBED HERE. I think that is the biggest and most important part of a president's job. Keep the homeland safe. You know what was said about the Nazis when people ignored them.

And I remember Clinton's polls were down around this time in his presidency. Who cares about polls anyway? They can be manipulated. That is why so many Dems were so disappointed when Bush won. The polls said he would lose. :eek:
But you are forgetting that Osama’s actual plan was to bankrupt this country. And with America dumping another 50 Billion into Iraq it looks like were not too far off. Plus a planned attack such as 9/11 takes years to plan. No one actually expects there to be something along that scale for quite a while. The fact the Bush is President is irrelevant to our not having been attacked in the same fashion that we we’re attack during 9/11.

While we may remain safe for the time being our interests overseas suffer too.

Crick

10-13-2005, 11:42 AM

That's the point. WE AREN'T GETTING BOMBED HERE. I think that is the biggest and most important part of a president's job. Keep the homeland safe. You know what was said about the Nazis when people ignored them.

And I remember Clinton's polls were down around this time in his presidency. Who cares about polls anyway? They can be manipulated. That is why so many Dems were so disappointed when Bush won. The polls said he would lose. :eek:

Bush is suffering the worst job approval rating of any President during his second term. Strange you point out Clinton's numbers were down but turn around and say polls are manipulated and who cares. :rolleyes: All the polls leading up to the election in 2004 showed it neck and neck which is what happened. For Bush's rating to be so low that means he is losing his hard core Republican and conservative base. When 29% (even with margain of error) says the country is heading in the wrong direction, then I say there is some major problems in Bush and his Administration's running of this country.

Njean31

10-13-2005, 11:43 AM

Actually that is quite impossible there isn’t enough water on the planet to cover it in the fashion that is depicted in the Bible.

i believe the flood was local considering that everyone alive at that time lived in one geographical area it was called global.........which is was in respect to the people alive at that time. the continents were at one time all one big land mass (pangea) with one hugh ocean encircling it but i don't know if they were scattered before of after.......still learning :) but at any rate.........at the time of Noah's flood i do believe all people lived in one local area. too deep for me...........no pun intended :D

excuseme

10-13-2005, 11:48 AM

From this thread I am really starting to understand the mentality of the 29% of those who still support Bush.

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 11:54 AM

i believe the flood was local considering that everyone alive at that time lived in one geographical area it was called global.........which is was in respect to the people alive at that time. the continents were at one time all one big land mass (pangea) with one hugh ocean encircling it but i don't know if they were scattered before of after.......still learning :) but at any rate.........at the time of Noah's flood i do believe all people lived in one local area. too deep for me...........no pun intended :D
The seperation of the contents was after the fact. Considering the maps of the area during the time depicted during the flood, plus with contential shift there would have to have been millions of years between the "flood" and present day. (that is if you were to believe that the flood happened between the seperation of the continents and now.)
Yes during the time of Noah there most likely were "groups" of people living in the area of the fertal cressant (Iraq).

I'm just saying that a flood of that magnatude is not possible. But now we're getting off topic.

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 11:56 AM

From this thread I am really starting to understand the mentality of the 29% of those who still support Bush.
Next year will be very telling especially if most congressmen don't get votes to go back to washington. Which would explain the party's sudden distancing of themselves. This new nomination tot he supreme court is really going to be lynch pin.

Crick

10-13-2005, 12:07 PM

From this thread I am really starting to understand the mentality of the 29% of those who still support Bush.

It helps me understand how people like Jim Jones, David Koresch, Charles Manson and others were able to control people. Not much different (if at all) of the way Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Jimmy Swaggert, Jim/Tammy Bakker, and a host of others (including Bush) are able to manipulate people. Provides much more education and insight than those worthless psychology courses I took in college. Of course I'm a simple liberal who doesn't have enough sense to come in from the rain.

BigLyd1

10-13-2005, 12:47 PM

Crick,

You're proof that not all liberals sound so critical and insulting. I appreciate that.

janelle

10-13-2005, 12:58 PM

But you are forgetting that Osama’s actual plan was to bankrupt this country. And with America dumping another 50 Billion into Iraq it looks like were not too far off. Plus a planned attack such as 9/11 takes years to plan. No one actually expects there to be something along that scale for quite a while. The fact the Bush is President is irrelevant to our not having been attacked in the same fashion that we we’re attack during 9/11.

While we may remain safe for the time being our interests overseas suffer too.

You just proved the conservatives point. If Clinton had been on task for all those years that Bin Laden was plotting he would have been caught--I think at one point he was under arrest but was let go cause Clinton's administration didn't act----and 9/11 would never have happened. Now Bush has to clean up the mess.

And don't tell me that if the Dems get into office it will all go away. Even Hillary isn't dumb enough to say she is against the war. Most Americans believe we need to stay the course and mostly it's the people over there on the ground who see what is really happening, not the media who only see what they want to report.

YNKYH8R

10-13-2005, 01:25 PM

You just proved the conservatives point. If Clinton had been on task for all those years that Bin Laden was plotting he would have been caught--I think at one point he was under arrest but was let go cause Clinton's administration didn't act----and 9/11 would never have happened. Now Bush has to clean up the mess.

And don't tell me that if the Dems get into office it will all go away. Even Hillary isn't dumb enough to say she is against the war. Most Americans believe we need to stay the course and mostly it's the people over there on the ground who see what is really happening, not the media who only see what they want to report.
You can't say that if Osama Bin Laden had been captured 9/11 wouldn't happened because of the number of people involved. There is no proof he would have talked. Yet there is proof that the plan was in motion at least 2-3 months before 9/11 and Bush knew he just didn't do anythig then.

Crick

10-13-2005, 03:31 PM

Crick,

You're proof that not all liberals sound so critical and insulting. I appreciate that.

Nope, I just have very strong opinions and a great deal of sarcasm. ;)

BigLyd1

10-13-2005, 03:39 PM

Nope, I just have very strong opinions and a great deal of sarcasm. ;)

REALLY?! :eek: :D

I guess I just don't have enough of either, especially the latter. Oh well.

mesue

10-13-2005, 04:30 PM

You just proved the conservatives point. If Clinton had been on task for all those years that Bin Laden was plotting he would have been caught--I think at one point he was under arrest but was let go cause Clinton's administration didn't act----and 9/11 would never have happened. Now Bush has to clean up the mess.

And don't tell me that if the Dems get into office it will all go away. Even Hillary isn't dumb enough to say she is against the war. Most Americans believe we need to stay the course and mostly it's the people over there on the ground who see what is really happening, not the media who only see what they want to report.

I don't know where you get these ideas from that Clinton was not on task with tracking down terrorists or the notion that he was offered Bin laden at any time, I saw Clinton on the Larry King show say it was a lie, that he was never offered bin laden and had actually tried to have him killed several times, but just for you http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

Freebeemom

10-13-2005, 05:11 PM

You all need to calm down. God doesn't want people fighting!

mesue

10-13-2005, 05:16 PM

Actually I thought we were all behaving just fine, no one is arguing just debating.

Crick

10-13-2005, 06:59 PM

You all need to calm down. God doesn't want people fighting!

That's the point some of us have been trying to get across! God doesn't want people fighting so why in the world would he tell Bush to invade Iraq? :)
As mesue posted, thought we were debating. Besides, I've never been calm, been hyper all my live. :p

BigLyd1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crick
Nope, I just have very strong opinions and a great deal of sarcasm.

REALLY?!

I guess I just don't have enough of either, especially the latter. Oh well.

I'll be glad to give you lessons! ;)

YankeeMary

10-13-2005, 07:37 PM

Even Clinton was saying they had WMD so everyone believed it and if not then why didn't Saddam let the UN inspect where they wanted to? That was kinda dumb of him.

And Bush did NOT say God told him to invade Iraq. But the Burning Bush, I like that. LOL

Only non-religious people think Bush uses religion. Those who are truly religious know he doesn't. In this case you have to be one to know one. And we know he is genuine. To us religion is not a bad word it is a wonderful word. Ony radical liberals will not understand that and how far out of the mainstream to the public they are.
You are sooooo wrong! How could you say something so close minded and judgemental in regards to anyones religion? How can you sit there and judge people, just because they do not care for bush or his ways? I am a true born again Christian and I THINK HE USES RELIGION TO GET VOTES, ETC...

janelle

10-13-2005, 08:22 PM

Sorry should have added IMO. You have a right to your opinion and vice versa, I hope.

I was trying to make the point that many religious people know when they see a true Christian.To me he doesn't just mouth the words He talks the talk and walks the walk. Saying things religious isn't using religion. It's in his everyday language like it is in other Christian's lives. You can't expect a religious person to drop it when they go through a door. I don't care what door it is. The school house door or the oval room door.

Njean31

10-13-2005, 09:44 PM

nevermind

mesue

10-14-2005, 02:18 PM

Here is how I feel about religion, if you want to worship God go for it, thats fine by me and its your business, no one has a right to dictate to you anything about your faith and I feel thats the way it should be as long as your religion does not interfere with someone else's rights, like for instance if you believe your religion gives you the right to kill or maim someone then I strongly disagree with that. I believe you should be able to worship in any church you choose anytime you are in church and choose to do so. I believe if you want to send your child to a religious school and want to pay for it then thats your business also. I would never try and dictate to anyone what they should believe or think anyone else has that right.

But here is where I have a real problem with religion, when people use it to make themselves feel superior to others and use it as a right to try and dictate to me and my family how we should live, expect me to pay my tax dollars that are supposed to educate my children to also educate yours in religion during school hours, and then expect mine to stand there and lets yours pray during the school session, you know what thats your job and your churches job not the schools. Plus if we allow prayer in schools to satisfy all the christians what about all the other religions, do they get equal time? To be fair they should, so how do you feel about your child learning about all those other religions and learning their prayers and actually saying those prayers?

I also do not believe that religion has a place in government, you do, then perhaps you should consider all those middle eastern governments that are totally run by religious leaders.

Religion is what one chooses to believe in and places his or her faith in, some of you believe in God, fine, some people believe in science, fine, some people believe in screwdrivers and maybe even worships them who knows but thats their business not yours or mine and if they want to worship a screwdriver so be it and I'm fine with that as long as they don't try and force me to worship a screwdiver or pay for them to do so or start thinking that the srewdriver is talking to them or start basing decisions that affect my life and others on what they think the talking screwdriver wants or tells them.

bush=idiot

10-14-2005, 02:31 PM

mesue

10-14-2005, 03:13 PM

This is hilarious. Bush is not a Christian instead I would call him satanic for murdering innocent people for money (oil). I am all for getting Osama but all he cares about are his oil wells which are located in Saudi Arabia. Osama is from Saudi Arabia but the idiot refuses to bomb it because his & his loser father's oil wells are there. Think logically...Any idiot can say that they are a Christian but that doesn't mean a thing because actions speak louder than words.

I agree that Bush is not religious and used others religions beliefs against them to get their vote and used religion solely to get elected. I see the man as a person who does not care about the poor or the underprivledged in this world and his actions has proven that over and over again.

stresseater

10-14-2005, 04:53 PM

I don't know where you get these ideas from that Clinton was not on task with tracking down terrorists or the notion that he was offered Bin laden at any time, I saw Clinton on the Larry King show say it was a lie, that he was never offered bin laden and had actually tried to have him killed several times, but just for you Yeah and I saw him go on national news and tell everyone he didn't have sexual relations with that woman. ;) :D

jcw

10-14-2005, 08:33 PM

Yeah and I saw him go on national news and tell everyone he didn't have sexual relations with that woman. ;) :D

well actually he didn't have sexual relations with her she just gave him a bj.lol

And don't tell me that if the Dems get into office it will all go away. Even Hillary isn't dumb enough to say she is against the war. Most Americans believe we need to stay the course and mostly it's the people over there on the ground who see what is really happening, not the media who only see what they want to report.

Janelle,
It seems like you really have a low opinion of all dems.We are people too you know. You use it like it's a dirty word. I don't like George Bush but it sure doesn't make me hate all republications.Please don't be so harsh.
As far as religion goes ANYONE can be religious about anything........ that doesn't mean you're a christian or saved.Anyone can say I'm religious while stabbing someone in the back etc . You can be religious about cleaning your house etc. but it doesn't make you a christian.Living a christian life is a lot different than claiming to be religious. As far as clinton and osama, Clinton and others have said on several occasions that they DID NOT have the proof that osama did the bombings . They (thought) knew he did it but did not have PROOF that is needed in a court of law. Guess he could have chosen to kill a bunch of Iraq's people and say it was because of Osama and God. He chose to handle things the legal way and not create evidence.What good would it have done to go after osama without proof? Wouldn't him or anyone else just be accused of murder or if they brought him to trial wouldn't the case have been thrown out without proof? You must have Proof to convict. It is against usa law to murder(kill someone) and It's against God's law also.Thou shalt not commit murder............