Huge rally against Iraq war

[Jaidness]

Huge rally against Iraq war

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Crowds opposed to the war in Iraq surged past the White House on Saturday, shouting "Peace now" in the largest anti-war protest in the nation's capital since the U.S. invasion.

The rally stretched through the day and into the night, a marathon of music, speechmaking and dissent on the National Mall.

Police Chief Charles H. Ramsey, noting that organizers had hoped to draw 100,000 people, said, "I think they probably hit that."

Speakers from the stage attacked President Bush's policies head on, but he was not at the White House to hear it. He spent the day in Colorado and Texas, monitoring hurricane recovery.

In the crowd: young activists, nuns whose anti-war activism dates to Vietnam, parents mourning their children in uniform lost in Iraq, and uncountable families motivated for the first time to protest.

Connie McCroskey, 58, came from Des Moines, Iowa, with two of her daughters, both in their 20s, for the family's first demonstration. McCroskey, whose father fought in World War II, said she never would have dared protest during the Vietnam War.

"Today, I had some courage," she said.

While united against the war, political beliefs varied. Paul Rutherford, 60, of Vandalia, Michigan, said he is a Republican who supported Bush in the last election and still does -- except for the war.

"President Bush needs to admit he made a mistake in the war and bring the troops home, and let's move on," Rutherford said.

His wife, Judy, 58, called the removal of Saddam Hussein "a noble mission" but said U.S. troops should have left when claims that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction proved unfounded.

"We found that there were none and yet we still stay there and innocent people are dying daily," she said.

"Bush Lied, Thousands Died," said one sign. "End the Occupation," said another. More than 1,900 members of the U.S. armed forces have died since the beginning of the war in March 2003.

A few hundred people in a counter demonstration in support of Bush's Iraq policy lined the protest route near the FBI building. The two groups shouted at each other, a police line keeping them apart. Organizers of a pro-military rally Sunday hoped for 10,000 people.

Ramsey said the day's protest unfolded peacefully under the heavy police presence. "They're vocal but not violent," he said.

Arthur Pollock, 47, of Cecil County, Maryland, said he was against the war from the beginning. He wants the soldiers out, but not all at once.

"They've got to leave slowly," said Pollock, attending his first protest. "It will be utter chaos in that country if we pull them out all at once."

Folk singer Joan Baez marched with the protesters and later serenaded them at a concert at the foot of the Washington Monument. An icon of the 1960s Vietnam War protests, she said Iraq is already a mess and the troops need to come home immediately. "There is chaos. There's bloodshed. There's carnage."

The protest in the capital showcased a series of demonstrations in foreign and other U.S. cities.

A crowd in London, estimated by police at 10,000, marched in support of withdrawing British troops from Iraq. Highlighting the need to get out, protesters said, were violent clashes between insurgents and British troops in the southern Iraq city of Basra.

In Rome, dozens of protesters held up banners and peace flags outside the U.S. Embassy and covered a sidewalk with messages and flowers in honor of those killed in Iraq.

Cindy Sheehan, the California mother who drew thousands of demonstrators to her 26-day vigil outside Bush's Texas ranch last month, won a roar of approval when she took the stage in Washington. Her 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in Iraq last year.

"Shame on you," Sheehan admonished, directing that portion of her remarks to members of Congress who backed Bush on the war. "How many more of other people's children are you willing to sacrifice?

She led the crowd in chanting, "Not one more."

Separately, hundreds of opponents of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund danced to the beat of drums in the Dupont Circle part of the city before marching toward the White House to join the anti-war protesters.

Supporters of Bush's policy in Iraq assembled in smaller numbers to get their voice heard in the day's anti-war din. About 150 of them rallied at the U.S. Navy Memorial.

Gary Qualls, 48, of Temple, Texas, whose Marine reservist son, Louis, died last year in the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, asked: "If you bring them home now, who's going to be responsible for all the atrocities that are fixing to happen over there? Cindy Sheehan?"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/24/antiwar.ap/index.html

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050924/i/r324680482.jpg

[mesue]

I was wanting to attend but hubby had put together a benefit for some Katrina victims so I had to help do that this weekend, and though I was proud of him for doing it, I wanted to go to the protest. I've been watching the FSTV broadcast about the protest and there are thousands of people there and apparently many more are trying to get there but access is being blocked from what I can understand, I'll write more about it as soon as I access the Democracy Now braodcast I am sure they will be one of the few news programs actually reporting on it.

[Technologist]

Folk singer Joan Baez {SNIP** she said Iraq is already a mess and the troops need to come home immediately. "There is chaos. There's bloodshed. There's carnage."

uh, hello.... its a war... do you think they play rock, scissors, paper???

Go write another song Joan.... and smoke some more dope!!!!

[mesue]

You are so right it is a war and people are dying, but guess what the two Bush twins and the Presidents 8 nephews and nieces are not there fighting if it so important why does that family not make a few sacrifices?

[Technologist]

Because it is a VOLUNTEER army!!! Just because one of your RELATIVES is active in politics doesn't mean that YOU have to join the military!!!

How many relatives have you forced to join the military (or your church, or the scouts, or your Book reading club)????

C'mon people, Bush may be president, but he can't FORCE his relatives into the military... just like he can't force YOUR relatives...

As far as the Bush twins... aren't they stiil in college?

I have TONS of relatives that haven't been in the military.... and several that have been... but the ones that did serve either volunteered, or were drafted in the 60's...

So, you're saying you support the DRAFT, for all eligible people, and you hope that the Bush twins and the 8 neices and nephews get drafted??? And your willing to put your kids in the same pool with them???

Pick a side and stick with it... You are either anti-war (for everyone), or you want INVOLUNTARY military service for ALL (Bush relatives and your included)...

[YNKYH8R]

Listen....you hear that?

It's the sound of no one caring....

[mesue]

Because it is a VOLUNTEER army!!! Just because one of your RELATIVES is active in politics doesn't mean that YOU have to join the military!!!

How many relatives have you forced to join the military (or your church, or the scouts, or your Book reading club)????

C'mon people, Bush may be president, but he can't FORCE his relatives into the military... just like he can't force YOUR relatives...

As far as the Bush twins... aren't they stiil in college?

I have TONS of relatives that haven't been in the military.... and several that have been... but the ones that did serve either volunteered, or were drafted in the 60's...

So, you're saying you support the DRAFT, for all eligible people, and you hope that the Bush twins and the 8 neices and nephews get drafted??? And your willing to put your kids in the same pool with them???

Pick a side and stick with it... You are either anti-war (for everyone), or you want INVOLUNTARY military service for ALL (Bush relatives and your included)...

I am anti-war for everyone but if the draft ever started you can bet that the Bush relatives would not be going. My point is that the Chickenhawks in the Bush Administration who are all for war are not giving up any of their precious children to go fight why should the rest of us? Same old story, the rich man dances while the poor man pays the band.

[YNKYH8R]

Iraq war protester Sheehan arrested
Protest near White House aimed at refocusing attention on conflict

The Associated Press
Updated: 3:45 p.m. ET Sept. 26, 2005


WASHINGTON - Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son’s death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House.

Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests.

Sheehan, 48, was the first taken into custody. She stood up and was handcuffed, then led to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, “The whole world is watching.”

Others who were arrested also cooperated with police. Sgt. Scott Fear, spokesman for the U.S. Park Police, said they would be charged with demonstrating without a permit, which is a misdemeanor.

Park Police Sgt. L.J. McNally said Sheehan and the others would be taken to a processing center where they would be fingerprinted and photographed, then given a ticket and released. The process would take several hours, he said.

Sheehan’s 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in an ambush in Sadr City, Iraq, last year. She attracted worldwide attention last month with her 26-day vigil outside President Bush’s Texas ranch.

Several hundred protesters in D.C.
Sheehan was among several hundred demonstrators who marched around the White House on Monday and then stopped in front and began singing and chanting “Stop the war now!” Organizers had said some planned to be arrested.

The demonstration is part of a broader anti-war effort on Capitol Hill organized by United for Peace and Justice, an umbrella group. Representatives from anti-war groups were meeting Monday with members of Congress to urge them to work to end the war and bring home the troops.

The protest following a massive demonstration Saturday on the National Mall that drew a crowd of 100,000 or more, the largest such gathering in the capital since the war began in March 2003.

On Sunday, a rally supporting the war drew roughly 500 participants. Speakers included veterans of World War II and the war in Iraq, as well as family members of soldiers killed in Iraq.

“I would like to say to Cindy Sheehan and her supporters, ‘Don’t be a group of unthinking lemmings.’ It’s not pretty,” said Mitzy Kenny of Ridgeley, W.Va., whose husband died in Iraq last year. The anti-war demonstrations “can affect the war in a really negative way. It gives the enemy hope.”

[stresseater]

I am anti-war for everyone but if the draft ever started you can bet that the Bush relatives would not be going. My point is that the Chickenhawks in the Bush Administration who are all for war are not giving up any of their precious children to go fight why should the rest of us? Same old story, the rich man dances while the poor man pays the band.
OK I'll call BS on the first part since you couldn't possibly know they wouldn't serve. As for these people dying on thejob over there,5703 workers lost thier lives last year while on the job here. Where is the outrage???

[mesue]

its pretty clear their not serving in the military, their not serving now and looking at the Bush family's and Cheney family's history of serving even when the draft was in place, deferrment after deferrment, I would have to lay money down on my bet that none of them would serve. As for the 5703 workers who lost their lives last year on the job here, what workers are you talking about?

[Jaidness]

maybe if the economy didn't suck so bad and there were enough jobs that pay decent livable wages and an education didn't cost so much people could actually make money at jobs in their states or hometowns~~~ maaaaybe there wouldn't be so many people "forced" to go into the military. I think Tngirl in another thread said her state has very high unemployment and poverty levels.I see alot of people on this very board saying they can't get a job that pays for childcare nevermind the gas it would cost them to get there everyday. To alot of the people that serve it could be the only option they have to get ahead in life and/or support themselves and their families. I could rationalize a war based on a just cuase a TRUE and right cause, but seriously, democracy for people that don't even want it? What about all the people that die from hunger and homelessness right here in the US or as someone else put it the workers that die on the job maybe due to lack of government regulatory controls, or the kids that die of neglect in foster care cos there isn't enough money to properly fund the manpower eccessary to ensure their wellbeing? What about the people dying in Africa? The Sudan or from aids? That isn't a worthy cause? There is no sufficient reason to go there and help them too? I find it very telling that over 100,000 people showed up for the PEACE rally and maybe 500 showed up for the war rally...How many of you pro war people have kids in the military? How many of you plan to have your kids join or would like your very kids to be the ones coming home in a bodybag or disabled or traumatized from the things they have seen and done over there? We have a whole generation of Vietnam vets, ever listen to their stories?

Go write another song Joan.... and smoke some more dope!!!! you forgot to add ....you commie pinko hippy f@g!

[YNKYH8R]

Actually smoking dope would probably make some of these people a little less ambitious to kill.

[Jaidness]

lol well lets see Clinton didn't inhale and Bush isn't a fan of pot he likes booze and coke so I guess we will have to take the word of the potheads on this one...

[mesue]

For anyone wondering where CNN or MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC were on reporting the protest, there was live feed of protest on FSTV most of the day of the protest and Sunday. The concerts by Joan Baez and Steve Earle were really good.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/09/26/1433252
Between100,000 and 300,0000 people took to the streets of Washington D.C. on Saturday to protest the ongoing war and occupation of Iraq. It was the largest anti-war protest in the nation's capital since the invasion and the first in a decade that federal officials allowed to go past the White House. The day began with a rally and march and ended with 11 hours of rock, rap, folk music and speeches which lasted until early Sunday morning. Protests were also held in other U.S. cities and around the world including London, Rome, Toronto and San Francisco. The D.C. march drew veteran anti-war protestors and those who had never before attended a protest. It also drew more than 250 military families, hundreds of veterans, and even a few active-duty Army soldiers just home from overseas. We go now to some of the speeches from Saturday's march. We begin with Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey died in Iraq last year. Last month she helped invigorate the anti-war movement by staging a month-long vigil outside President Bush's estate in Crawford Texas. She spoke shortly before the march began on Saturday.

[stresseater]

its pretty clear their not serving in the military, their not serving now and looking at the Bush family's and Cheney family's history of serving even when the draft was in place, deferrment after deferrment, I would have to lay money down on my bet that none of them would serve. As for the 5703 workers who lost their lives last year on the job here, what workers are you talking about?They aren't serving because they have a choice we are not drafting people. As for thier parents, so... if a person's daddy is a murderer does that mean the kid will be? The 5703 is from the department of labor statistics and its's the number of non military people who lost thier lives on thier job.
Actually smoking dope would probably make some of these people a little less ambitious to kill. I agree, now how do we get terrorist to take it up?

[mesue]

You are right the Bush relatives do have a choice, many of the ones fighting overseas right now had to join the military to even have a job or a job with medical benefits or money for college.

OK now I understand the number, it the number of people killed on their jobs, what do you mean where are the tears for them? Of course I sympathize with those families but what does that have to do with soldiers being used by the government to fight in a war that was based on a lie from day one; the downing street memo proves that.

[Technologist]

I chose to join... and to fight...and so did all those that are serving NOW, or have in the past 3 decades!

BUT when the chips are down, and they are told to do what they TRAINED for, and were PAID to learn.... then they call foul and want to quit.

Personally, I think Casey Sheehan would be embarrased of his mother, if he were alive today.

As far as the Bush twins, I agree it probably won't happen... because the youth of TODAY don't have the same ideas about patriotism and morals. But who knows, maybe they will join, after college... or join the Peace Corps... or volunteer for the Red Cross. But no matter what they do, I'm sure someone will claim they are only doing it for publicity (EWYGYS...)!

But what about Kennedy... He went, didn't have to, daddy was a rich bootlegger.

Nixon didn't have to go. During World War II, Nixon served in the United States Navy. He could have been exempt from military service because of his status as a birthright Quaker, but volunteered anyway.

Lyndon Johnson didn't have to go...Johnson's father had served five terms in the Texas legislature and was a close friend to one of Texas's rising political figures. During his last Senate election campaign, he promised that he would serve in the military should war break out; in December 1941, the U.S. entered World War II. During World War II he served briefly in the United States Navy as a Lieutenant Commander. Awards and decorations included the Silver Star, Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal and the World War II Victory Medal.

Reagan was commissioned as a reserve cavalry officer in the U.S. Army in 1935. After the attack on Pearl Harbor he was activated and assigned, partially due to his poor eyesight, to the First Motion Picture Unit in the United States Army Air Forces, which made training and education films. He remained in Hollywood for the duration of the war, and he attained the rank of captain. Reagan tried repeatedly to go overseas for combat duty, but was turned down because of his astigmatism. *But I guess repeatedly volunteering was just an ACT???*

Don't need to mention the First Bush President, everyone knows his military service...

But what about Bill Blythe III (oops, I mean Bill Clinton...LOL!). What was his Military Service??? Oh, that's right....Clinton avoided the draft with a student deferment while studying abroad during the Vietnam War. Clinton's marijuana experimentation, clumsily excused by Clinton's statement that he "didn't inhale" further tarnished his image with some voters.

SO much for PEOPLE needing money joining the MILITARY...Until his inauguration as president, he had earned substantially less money than his wife, and had the smallest net worth of any president in modern history, according to My Life, Clinton's autobiography.

The argument that people join in order to get a job, or benefits, or college money doesn't hold water... If they were that desperate to make money, and to put their life on the line, then they would rob banks or deal drugs... same chances of dying and a much better payoff than the 700 or so bucks a month they get paid for joining the military. Or they could get a job on an oil rig, or catch king crab in Alaska... Great pay, dangerous, etc...

People that HAVE to join are the lazy ones... the ones that join, hope to get through a year of school, then 3, 4, or 5 years of no conflict.... and get out and use their experience in the MILITARY (paid for with MY TAX money), to get a cushy job...

And now I'm gonna stop before I really let you now how I feel...

PS, I wouldn't call Joan a commie pinko... or a fag...

[mesue]

I know several people who have joined just so they have a job and have to make money to feed and care for their family. There are many areas of this country that are economically depressed, even parts of N.O. showed us very poor people.

Robbing a bank is not an option, it is not an honest job and many people want nothing more than to be able to work and provide for their families and make a decent wage while working. There are only so many good jobs out there and so many people who have an opportunity for an education. So please tell me an option other than the military if you live in an economically depressed area where there are no jobs available and you have no money to move and you have not had the opportunity to go to college so that you can qualify for a better job. Have you not heard of the working poor? People who holding down 1-2 jobs and have no insurance and don't qualify for any help of any kind but yet can't save a dime due to paying for only the essentials of life, shelter, food, medical care, daycare if they have kids. You seem to feel as though everyone always has a choice in their circumstances but sometimes they don't.


And btw if I told you a sob story about some guy being so poor and not being able to find a job he robbed a bank you would probably be the first one to say throw him in jail and never let him out. Actually you sort of prove my point if the best option you can come up with for someone who is poor is to rob a bank. LOL

[Technologist]

Finally, the response I was waiting for...LOL!


I know several people who have joined just so they have a job and have to make money to feed and care for their family.

Do these people now complain about BEING PAID to do the job they are trained for and are paid for??? They joined, KNOWING the risks (possibility of war, or supporting the government with border patrol, or hurricane relief)... but don't want to fight, or support troops that are fighting, because it is DANGEROUS??? That is the same as robbing a bank.... they are taking money, without doing the WORK!




Robbing a bank is not an option, it is not an honest job and many people want nothing more than to be able to work and provide for their families and make a decent wage while working. There are only so many good jobs out there and so many people who have an opportunity for an education. So please tell me an option other than the military if you live in an economically depressed area where there are no jobs available and you have no money to move and you have not had the opportunity to go to college so that you can qualify for a better job. Have you not heard of the working poor? People who holding down 1-2 jobs and have no insurance and don't qualify for any help of any kind but yet can't save a dime due to paying for only the essentials of life, shelter, food, medical care, daycare if they have kids. You seem to feel as though everyone always has a choice in their circumstances but sometimes they don't.


Robbing a bank is the SAME as SIGNING a contract to "Defend the US, against ALLenemies, domestic and FOREIGN".... then complaining that you you to fight in a war...

As far as working poor, I have been there... no kids, but working from paycheck to paycheck... but that was WHILE I WAS IN THE MILITARY! I couldn't afford ANYTHING... I WORKED a part-time job in the military, just to pay for my car insurance, my rent, and food for my wife and myself (my military pay, Hoousing allowance, and separate rations pay was NOT enough to cover it... and my wife worked 2 jobs!

And MANY jobs, like the ones I mentioned, will pay for relocation... and training.... and the salary is ENORMOUS... so it is a quick "get-rich" opportunity. Heck, If I could (Physically able), I would go work an oil rig RIGHT NOW!!! In a 6 month period, it pays 3 times what I make in 3 YEARS!


And btw if I told you a sob story about some guy being so poor and not being able to find a job he robbed a bank you would probably be the first one to say throw him in jail and never let him out. Actually you sort of prove my point if the best option you can come up with for someone who is poor is to rob a bank. LOL

Of course I would... I said "rob a bank, because that is what the DISSENTERS are doing... they are accepting pay for months or years, to train to be a soldier, then complaining about being CALLED to DUTY.... thus ripping off the Federal Government, which RUNS ON MY TAX MONEY!!!

I would gladly give EXTRA to put them in JAIL!

[janelle]

Who in the world would WANT the Bush twins over there? If they were captured it would be a circus and you know the secret service would need to go along with them and be with them every step of the way. If my hubby was secret service no way would I want him guarding a president's daughter in the bunker. LOL Don't you know how the secret service works? They are still guarding the past presidents and their daughters.
================================================== ========
Got this in my email but it says so much.---------LOL



"There were protesters on the train platform handing out
pamphlets on the evils of America. I politely declined to take
one. An elderly woman was behind me getting off the escalator and
a young (20ish) female protester offered her a pamphlet, which
she politely declined.
The young protester put her hand on the old woman's shoulder as a
gesture of friendship and in a very soft voice said, "Ma'am,
don't you care about the children of Iraq?"
The old woman looked up at her and said, "Honey, my first husband
died in France during World War II, my second husband died in
Korea, one of my sons died in Vietnam, a Grandson died in Desert
Storm, all so you could have the right to stand here and bad
mouth our country. If you touch me again. I'll stick this
umbrella up your *** and open it."

[mesue]

No those people did not complain as you posted above they served their time and received their promotion much faster than normal so I would only assume they did a good job and did more than was required.
You missed the whole point and that was that some people have no opportunities to better themselves other than through the military especially with todays economy, there are not many jobs out there. You seem to be lumping people who want to work and better themselves but have very few opportunities in with people who are just lazy.

[Technologist]

No, you've missed the whole point...

I take time to address EACH of your points, then you reply and ignore everything I've said!

For example, I have been working since I was 14... and until I was 33, I was considered "LOWER CLASS"... I worked my butt off, 2 or 3 jobs at a time.... I served my country (PROUDLY), and did everything I was asked to do, WITHOUT complaint.

WHich means everytime I was relocated in the service, I gave up my EXTRA job, and MY wife gave up her EXTRA JOBS.... to do what I signed up for... even though it meant I would be going BACK INTO DEBT... because I had to find a NEW 2nd job, and my wife had to find EITHER a new HIGH paying job (never happened), or 2 NEW jobs...

and don't talk about todays economy.... I can go get another job tomorrow... and another the next day.... It might be sweeping floors, or cleaning bathrooms, but I WOULD do it, if it meant putting food on the table!!! BUT people today are turning down jobs, because they don't pay WHAT THEY want.

I interview 4 to 8 people a week, somtime as many as 10.... trying to fill a $50,000 a year position I have open... and its been open since APRIL of this year... but they WANT MORE! Or they want to do less work, for that amount of money...

The guys on the Trash trucks around me make that, and these people complain that a nice office environment, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, should get more...

[janelle]

Tech they are holding out for a management position. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I know some have said they will not work if they are not paid this much while their wife is working her butt off. GEESH Those guys need to be sent into the service.

[mesue]

No, you've missed the whole point...

I take time to address EACH of your points, then you reply and ignore everything I've said!

For example, I have been working since I was 14... and until I was 33, I was considered "LOWER CLASS"... I worked my butt off, 2 or 3 jobs at a time.... I served my country (PROUDLY), and did everything I was asked to do, WITHOUT complaint.

WHich means everytime I was relocated in the service, I gave up my EXTRA job, and MY wife gave up her EXTRA JOBS.... to do what I signed up for... even though it meant I would be going BACK INTO DEBT... because I had to find a NEW 2nd job, and my wife had to find EITHER a new HIGH paying job (never happened), or 2 NEW jobs...

and don't talk about todays economy.... I can go get another job tomorrow... and another the next day.... It might be sweeping floors, or cleaning bathrooms, but I WOULD do it, if it meant putting food on the table!!! BUT people today are turning down jobs, because they don't pay WHAT THEY want.

I interview 4 to 8 people a week, somtime as many as 10.... trying to fill a $50,000 a year position I have open... and its been open since APRIL of this year... but they WANT MORE! Or they want to do less work, for that amount of money...

The guys on the Trash trucks around me make that, and these people complain that a nice office environment, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, should get more...

Hubby and me did the same thing in the military (USMC) so I can relate and yes we have worked our butts off too. Hubby was at the fall of Saigon evacuating people and also the incident with the Miaguez (sp?) and spent overall approx. 2.5 years away from me and the kids doing military stuff, I held down the fort during that time, part of it I was pregnant and caring for a child without a car or even a drivers license.
I did not ignore everything you said what part did I miss?

The people you are talking about turning down a 50,000 dollars/year job obviously have choices. They obviously have some valuable skills. Here where I live that is a high income and most people here would jump at the chance to make that kind of money. What kind of position is it? What is the education level?

But the people I am talking about are just young kids fresh out of high school who have very few opportunites if they don't go to college and can't afford to since no jobs around here pay much and so if they go to work they need a car (rural area no buses) and to pay for college they would need a second or third job so when are they supposed to have time for school. Many join the service to get the GI bill so they can pay for school if they want an education so they can have a better way of life. They join so they can afford to go to school for the college education. Those are the people I am talking about not someone with marketable skills who don't want to work.

[YNKYH8R]

Clinton's marijuana experimentation, clumsily excused by Clinton's statement that he "didn't inhale" further tarnished his image with some voters.

I thought he got elected because of that fact.

[YNKYH8R]

As far as the Bush twins, I agree it probably won't happen... because the youth of TODAY don't have the same ideas about patriotism and morals.
Very true but how do you teach patriotism?

[YNKYH8R]

So you'd support wasting tax money on putting people in jail that join the service and never go over seas in time of war? At the same time get pissed that people actually express their opinion witht the right to express it all beacuse someone died for that right?

[tngirl]

Cindy Sheehan, the California mother who drew thousands of demonstrators to her 26-day vigil outside Bush's Texas ranch last month, won a roar of approval when she took the stage in Washington. Her 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in Iraq last year.

You know, this sentiment is totally silly. And by the way, I am so tired of the statement about the families of our military as "making sacrifices". They did not drag their child down to the recruitment office and hand them over. Our military personnel made the choice to serve their country, THEY have made the sacrifice. Hence, no sacrifice was made on the part of the family.. There have been LOSSES, definitely a difference there.


You are so right it is a war and people are dying, but guess what the two Bush twins and the Presidents 8 nephews and nieces are not there fighting if it so important why does that family not make a few sacrifices?

This woman is so full of sh*t. At first I felt for her loss, now she has gotten just plain stupid to allow herself to be used the way she is. Also, her son made a choice....he re-upped during wartime.


While united against the war, political beliefs varied. Paul Rutherford, 60, of Vandalia, Michigan, said he is a Republican who supported Bush in the last election and still does -- except for the war. "President Bush needs to admit he made a mistake in the war and bring the troops home, and let's move on," Rutherford said.

Yeah, let us just pull all of our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan and every other part of the world they are stationed. Then let's see what happens. Does anyone care to guess what would happen if we pulled our troops out of Iraq?

[mesue]

What do you think would happen?

[YNKYH8R]

You know, this sentiment is totally silly. And by the way, I am so tired of the statement about the families of our military as "making sacrifices". They did not drag their child down to the recruitment office and hand them over. Our military personnel made the choice to serve their country, THEY have made the sacrifice. Hence, no sacrifice was made on the part of the family.. There have been LOSSES, definitely a difference there.
It's am emotional sacrifice. Not having you wife, husband, or children (whatever the situation maybe) around knowing that their lives are in jeopardy in a foregin country. I couldn't imagine dying from a bullet wound wondering when was the last time I saw my wife or daughter; knowing I'd probably never see them again. :(

*The Cindy Sheehan sentament is (probably) she has a son she'll never get back. She'll have to live with it the rest of her life. While people in power get to continue on never knowing what it's like to loose a child. If he had been a firefighter or a police office; and he died in the line of duty, then it's a noble effort to ones job. But he died in a foregin country, away from home...fighting for a lie.

[YNKYH8R]

What do you think would happen?
Don't even bother. Let 'em stay in Iraq. Let them duke it out over the next 3-7 years. Just be glad we'll still be drawing breathe (hopefully) during the next administrations end.

Of course I'm being fecisious. The government is going to do what the government is going to do. And if some people feel that our presence in Iraq makes us safer let them feel that way. It's their security blanket.

[Technologist]

So you'd support wasting tax money on putting people in jail that join the service and never go over seas in time of war? At the same time get pissed that people actually express their opinion witht the right to express it all beacuse someone died for that right?

NO, I said I would give extra to put them in jail...

If you sign a contract, then fail to produce, then you are liable for damages.

My tax dollars pay for the military... if they aren't willing to do their job, then they either pay back the measly 700 bucks a month they were paid, or they go to jail...

Hey Adam, are you out yet? or are you still hoping that you get out before they involuntarily extend you???

Let me know if you get called up, I will volunteer to be in YOUR unit! :D

[YNKYH8R]

Actually I'm transfering from my unit. (That's if it even goes through, my unit drags it's feet on these issues.) Otherwise stop loss is no longer in effect for my unit as of July. :)

*Almost forgot..I'm one of four transfering out. ANd the unit I'm coming from is being downsized from 2 battalions to 1. I'm not a crucial MOS anyway (Non-Combat at least).

[Jolie Rouge]

See also http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/551084-topless-protest-breasts-not-bombs-code-pink-hillary-clinton-campaign-launch-party.html

http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/502818-peace-activist-sheehan-arrested-ny-protest.html

http://www.bigbigforums.com/news-information/575842-unclassified-memo-warns-military-personnel-anti-war-threats-recruiters-army-installations-ect.html


Good luck to downtown commuters making it through today's massive anti-war rallies.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxdUY5PIgAAgibw.jpg:small


KingShamusé @KingShamus

BREAKING-Thousands of angry anti-war protestors take to their beds and sleep in. pic.twitter.com/YgS2VS8lNi @TimShutters @RobProvince

8:57 PM - 13 Sep 2014

Hey, anti-war movement!

Hello...?

Anyone there?

Anyone?


HotAir.com @hotairblog

Anti-war crowd stunningly silent on ISIS plan http://hotair.com/headlines/?p=306613 …


9:30 AM - 13 Sep 2014

THEIR GUY'S in charge now. So, it's okay #tcot Blog: Where have all the anti-war protestors gone? http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2014/09/where_have_all_the_antiwar_protestors_gone.html?ut m_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook#.VBT2ZU5aT14.twitter …

Yes, silence. How about a “manifesto” then to try and resurrect the anti-war heroes of the Bush years?

http://twitchy.com/2014/09/13/where-are-the-anti-war-protesters-nobody-knows/

[Eddie]

Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:43AM GMT


Anti-war activists in a number of US cities have staged protests to express their opposition to any possible US military intervention in Iraq.

Over the recent days, militants from the so-called Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) have been wreaking havoc in Iraq and committing atrocities against people.

ISIL militants overran large swathes of land in northern Iraq, including the cities of Mosul, the country’s second-largest city, and Tikrit, the birthplace of former Baathist dictator Saddam Hussein, in just two weeks. The militants are also in full control of a main border crossing between Iraq and Syria.

The US says its military is ready for air strikes against ISIL militants in Iraq and President Barack Obama said on Thursday that Washington would send 300 “military advisers” to Iraq.

However, anti-war protesters in the US say the Iraqi people, who have taken up arms to help the army fight the militants, “need to have an opportunity to rebuild their society” without “these threats of military intervention coming from the US government.”

The activists – who were chanting “No new war on Iraq!” – say sending military advisers can be a prelude to a large-scale war as it was before the Vietnam War.

“President Kennedy said he was just sending military advisers to Vietnam, and when those 300 military advisers can't change the landscape to the satisfaction of the Obama Administration and the Hawks in Congress who want to see more military involvement, there will only be more calls for more military involvement, and more military action and more troops and more bombing,” said Mara Verheyden-hilliard, executive director of Partnership for Civil Justice Fund, one of the organizers of the protests in Washington, DC.

Demonstrations in Washington were staged outside the White House on Saturday and were organized by anti-war organizations like the Act Now to Stop War and End Racism (ANSWER) Coalition.

Protest organizers said thousands of Americans took part in similar demonstrations in other major cities across the United States like Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and New York.

The protesters also said that the US only wants to help its military-industrial complex by sending military personnel and materials to Iraq.

“This is an imperialistic move, this is a capitalistic move, this is a move not for the people of Iraq, but for the elite in the United States," said Melba Conway, a protestor.

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2014/06/22/368073/protesters-in-us-no-new-iraq-war/


"Money talks more than people do." from video on link

[Jolie Rouge]

:clapping: :clapping:

http://newsbcpcol.stb.s-msn.com/amnews/i/e6/e5718814dd5b7611ec363b9626e1e/_h353_w628_m6_otrue_lfalse.jpg

Members of the anti-war activist group CodePink interrupt a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing with Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, left, and Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Sept. 16, 2014.
AP 7 hr ago | By DONNA CASSATA of Associated Press

Hagel, Dempsey defend US plan to target extremists

WASHINGTON (AP) — The nation's top military leader told Congress on Tuesday that if President Barack Obama's expanded military campaign to destroy Islamic extremists fails, he would recommend that the United States consider deploying American ground forces to Iraq.


Army Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told a Senate panel that the goal for American advisers is to help Iraqi forces with planning, logistics and coordinating military efforts by coalition partners to take out members of the Islamic State group.

"To be clear, if we reach the point where I believe our advisers should accompany Iraqi troops on attacks against specific ISIL targets, I will recommend that to the president," Dempsey told the Senate Armed Services Committees, using an alternative name for the group.

Pressed during questioning, Dempsey said he "would go back to the president and make a recommendation that may include the use of ground forces."

Obama has maintained that American forces will not have a combat mission in Iraq.

Dempsey and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel faced multiple questions from lawmakers in the first high-stakes hearing examining Obama's expanded military campaign to counter the relentless terrorist threat from Middle East extremists.

The U.S. military conducted strikes near Baghdad against the Islamic State group, which has seized large swaths of Iraq and Syria. Obama is seeking congressional support to train and equip vetted Syrian moderates fighting both the Islamic militants and forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

Dempsey said the United States is prepared to strike Islamic targets in Syria.

"This will not look like 'shock and awe' because that is not how ISIL is organized. But it will be persistent and sustainable," Dempsey said, referring to the air bombardment at the start of the Iraq war in March 2003.

Several lawmakers have their doubts about the United States being pulled into a larger war, with increasing numbers of American troops. The president has already dispatched more than 1,000 Americans three years after combat forces left Iraq.

Many Republicans and Democrats have expressed reservations about the ability to identify moderates in a country awash with rebel formations and shifting alliances. The Islamic State grew out of the al-Qaida movement, but the two are now fighting. In some instances, the moderate Free Syrian Army has teamed with al-Qaida's local franchise, the Nusra Front.

Hagel said the U.S. will monitor them closely to ensure that weapons don't fall into the wrong hands.

"There will always be risk in a program like this, but we believe that risk is justified by the imperative of destroying ISIL — and the necessity of having capable partners on the ground in Syria," the defense secretary said.

Anti-war protesters filled the front rows at the hearing, chanting "no more war" at the start of the session and repeatedly interrupting the testimony. The protesters were escorted from the room.

Hagel said the involvement will not be "an easy or brief effort. We are at war with ISIL, as we are with al-Qaida."

Obama and Vice President Joe Biden met in the Oval Office with retired Marine Gen. John Allen, who is coordinating international efforts to combat the Islamic State militants. Brett McGurk, a top Iraq adviser at the State Department, also took part in the meeting.

Skepticism was evident on Capitol Hill.

"I support the president 1,000 percent on air support. I do not support the training of Syrian rebels," Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., a member of the Armed Services Committee, said Monday. His reservations stemmed from the "eight years, $20 billion to train" the Iraqi forces after the U.S. invasion in March 2003. "See what the outcome was there," he said.

Another member of the committee, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., questioned the administration's resolve.

"How serious are we? We could have bombed Syria yesterday. We could have taken out ISIS. I can point out to them targets on a map," McCain said Monday.

Racing to finish its work and leave Washington for midterm campaigning, House Republicans finalized legislation to authorize the mission to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels.

The authorization under consideration will be included as an amendment to a spending bill Congress must pass to keep the government open until mid-December. That would give lawmakers the opportunity to hold a separate debate and vote on the matter — something members of both parties want. Votes could come as early as Wednesday.

Bowing to congressional fears that any vote is tantamount to a war vote, the legislation includes a provision stating that "nothing in this section shall be construed to constitute a specific statutory authorization for the introduction of U.S. armed forces into hostilities or into situations wherein hostilities are clearly indicated by the circumstances."

The provision reflects a congressional divide between hawks seeking tougher action than that proposed by Obama and lawmakers weary from more than a decade of U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The measure compels the Pentagon to present Congress with a plan 15 days before any training begins and requires ongoing updates every 90 days.

The U.S. plan is to develop moderate Syrian forces at Saudi Arabian training sites before helping them return to the battlefield. It's unclear how long they would need to be trained to be battle-ready or how the U.S. could ensure their attention remained on fighting extremists and not just the Syrian government.

http://news.msn.com/us/hagel-dempsey-defend-us-plan-to-target-extremists?ocid=ansnews11