PDA

View Full Version : Was Abe Lincoln GAY ??????



Jolie Rouge
04-18-2005, 11:35 AM
Historians Defend Book Ib Abraham Lincoln
By CHRISTOPHER WILLS

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) - It must have been the first conference in the history of Abraham Lincoln scholarship to call the Great Emancipator ``a terrifically sexual guy.''

Addressing the nation's top Lincoln scholars on Sunday, two historians defended a new book that claims Lincoln was gay and called for more research into his sexuality. ``I could build a Lincoln Log cabin of homophobic denial,'' said Civil War historian Michael Chesson. ``There's been a cover-up, a conspiracy of silence for experts to hide what they regard as dirty linen in Abe's faded carpetbag.''

The reason for the discussion - part of a conference held in conjunction with the opening of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum - is a new book called ``The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln.''

Author and sociologist C.A. Tripp, who died before the book was published, examined Lincoln's poetry, the recollections of those who knew him and his relationships with other men and concluded Lincoln was ``predominantly homosexual.''

Tripp goes into more detail, but he was not the first person to speculate on the subject. Scholars have long wondered about the relationship between Lincoln and Joshua Speed. The two men slept in the same bed for four years in Springfield and developed a deep friendship.

Seeking to save money and stay warm in crude buildings, men of the day often shared beds. But Lincoln and Speed lived together long after they could afford separate quarters. Though both men married and Lincoln had four children, Tripp concluded they were lovers.

He reached the same conclusion about Lincoln and David Derickson, a soldier assigned to guard the president during the Civil War. Lincoln and Derickson sometimes shared a bed when Mary Todd Lincoln was out of town.

Jean Baker, author of a major biography of Mrs. Lincoln, has concluded that Lincoln was bisexual. ``(Lincoln) loved men, and they loved him, at whatever level,'' Baker said.

She also rejected the contention that Lincoln married only to further his political career, saying Abraham and Mary ``loved each other and could not be happy apart.''

``It does seem to me that Lincoln is a terrifically sexual guy. He seems to exude testosterone from every pore,'' she added.


Many historians have questioned the theory that Lincoln was gay, arguing that if there were anything suspicious about the president's relationships with Speed and Derickson, his enemies would have used it against him. They say Tripp relied on discredited sources and read too much into conversations that were recalled decades later.

Douglas Wilson, co-director of the Lincoln Studies Center at Knox College, called the book's evidence ``very, very shabby.''

But Illinois state historian Thomas Schwartz suggested skeptics should keep an open mind. ``I have found that the traditional assumptions about Lincoln, when carefully tested, fall apart,'' he said.



04/18/05 04:00

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050418%2F0401954009.htm&sc=1110&photoid=20050417ILSP104

llbriteyes
04-18-2005, 12:58 PM
Does this really matter these many years later?

Linda

wubbywa
04-18-2005, 03:16 PM
I was thinking the same thing. What is it going to prove if he was and who cares. Let the guy rest in peace.

laughsalot
04-18-2005, 03:20 PM
You ladies took the words right outta my mouth. It doesnt matter anyways. If in fact it is true then that was only one small piece of the puzzle that made him who he was, it didnt define him then or now.

Denise1972
04-18-2005, 03:53 PM
I am from Springfield, IL and I never heard that he was supposedly gay. So what if he was.... He was a great guy who did so many good things

queenangie
04-18-2005, 04:45 PM
I am from Springfield, IL and I never heard that he was supposedly gay. So what if he was.... He was a great guy who did so many good things

Exactly!

The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library has its opening ceremonies tomorrow 4/19/05 with President & Mrs. Bush attending.

Let's remember all the wonderful things Abe Lincoln did for the USA.

Denise1972
04-18-2005, 05:07 PM
Exactly!

The Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library has its opening ceremonies tomorrow 4/19/05 with President & Mrs. Bush attending.

Let's remember all the wonderful things Abe Lincoln did for the USA.

I want to go to the opening cerimonies of the Library, but it will be a nightmare trying to find a parking spot. I dont think there are any tickets left either.

CatrinaF25
04-18-2005, 06:02 PM
who cares if he was gay .. he did great things

nightrider127
04-19-2005, 03:13 AM
who cares if he was gay .. he did great things

My thoughts exactly. It is not a persons sexual preference that makes them great or not so great. It is what they carry within them.

A little off topic here, but let me put in a plug for the beautiful little town of Harrogate, Tn. This is in Eastern Tennessee, right on the Ky/Tn border.There is a college there called Lincoln Memorial University that has an extensive Abraham Lincoln library. Stop by and take a look if you are ever in that neck of the woods.

llbriteyes
04-19-2005, 03:22 AM
History is full of gay people who made GREAT contributions to this world. "Gayness" doesn't make the man (woman).

Linda

Jaxx
04-19-2005, 04:38 AM
who cares if he was gay .. he did great things


I agree

Kyla Kym
04-19-2005, 04:55 AM
It makes you wonder what type of person waste their day researching a dead presidents sexual preferences. I think they should be ashamed of themselves, the poor man isn't here to defend himself against people that are trying to bring out something that might or might not have been true. If it is true, he didn't want people to know about it or he would have told. What right do these people nowadays have to drag out something like that? :confused:

YNKYH8R
04-19-2005, 05:48 AM
It makes you wonder what type of person waste their day researching a dead presidents sexual preferences. I think they should be ashamed of themselves, the poor man isn't here to defend himself against people that are trying to bring out something that might or might not have been true. If it is true, he didn't want people to know about it or he would have told. What right do these people nowadays have to drag out something like that? :confused:
Do you find it offensive to be mistaken for being gay?

CatrinaF25
04-19-2005, 07:01 AM
Do you find it offensive to be mistaken for being gay?

I would.. I would find it offensive for someone to ASSUME that I am something that I am not. reather that be gay or what ever elese. It would be offensive to be no matter what it was. ( i see nothing wrong with being gay )
but i do see something wrong with ppl assuming something about others.

schsa
04-19-2005, 07:54 AM
Men interacted differently 150 years ago than they do today. What was acceptable as bachelor behavior then could be looked at as gay now. I have no idea whether he was gay or not and I don't care. Why even write something like this unless you are in it for the money only.

YNKYH8R
04-19-2005, 08:09 AM
Men interacted differently 150 years ago than they do today. What was acceptable as bachelor behavior then could be looked at as gay now. I have no idea whether he was gay or not and I don't care. Why even write something like this unless you are in it for the money only.
Then again why do people look in to things like JFK's affair's or Clinton's sexual explotations? Or about Teddy Roosevelt's involvement with the Mason's, other President's assasinations, sex lives, drugs, abuse; it is all interesting.

sahmsfreeb
04-19-2005, 08:29 AM
Do you find it offensive to be mistaken for being gay?



actually i would.... but i wouldnt mind being hit on by a lesbian...
go figure... i wanna be striaght but i wanna be desired by all...

lol...

moogle
04-19-2005, 08:41 AM
I guess my feelings are -

He's dead. Does it really matter?????

Crick
04-19-2005, 08:50 AM
Then again why do people look in to things like JFK's affair's or Clinton's sexual explotations? Or about Teddy Roosevelt's involvement with the Mason's, other President's assasinations, sex lives, drugs, abuse; it is all interesting.

Just proves the old adage...SEX SELLS...doesn't matter if it's heterosexual, homosexual, asexual, or nonsexual. On thing about it, in 150 years I seriously doubt anybody will question whether Bill Clinton was gay or not. But then again......... :D

llbriteyes
04-19-2005, 04:53 PM
Over there across the pond, century after century and in ancient Rome, it was never hidden. It was revered.

Linda




Men interacted differently 150 years ago than they do today. What was acceptable as bachelor behavior then could be looked at as gay now. I have no idea whether he was gay or not and I don't care. Why even write something like this unless you are in it for the money only.

llbriteyes
04-19-2005, 04:54 PM
Good point, but still in all, its nobody's business.

Linda



Then again why do people look in to things like JFK's affair's or Clinton's sexual explotations? Or about Teddy Roosevelt's involvement with the Mason's, other President's assasinations, sex lives, drugs, abuse; it is all interesting.

llbriteyes
04-19-2005, 05:01 PM
Thought this might be interesting:

Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects, (p 639).

While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history... An individual may be assigned a position on this scale, for each period in his life.... A seven-point scale comes nearer to showing the many gradations that actually exist, (pp. 639, 656)
Kinsey, et al. (1948). Sexual Behavior in the Human Male.

Linda



actually i would.... but i wouldnt mind being hit on by a lesbian...
go figure... i wanna be striaght but i wanna be desired by all...

lol...

Kyla Kym
04-19-2005, 05:09 PM
Do you find it offensive to be mistaken for being gay?
Why on earth would you ask me a question like that? I wouldn't know if I found it offensive or not, because as far as I know I've never been mistaken for being gay, and as for that matter I don't know of any gay people in our area. I'm sure there are probably some around here somewhere, but I've yet to meet any that claimed to be. So I would say just by guessing, that I would think it was funny if someone mistaken me for being gay. Why, what would you do if someone mistaken you for gay?

Kyla Kym
04-19-2005, 05:19 PM
Then again why do people look in to things like JFK's affair's or Clinton's sexual explotations? Or about Teddy Roosevelt's involvement with the Mason's, other President's assasinations, sex lives, drugs, abuse; it is all interesting.
I don't find it interesting, I find it degrading & shameful for our presidents personal lives to be dragged through the mud. It doesn't make me happy at all to hear such useless information being brought out on past presidents. I would much rather hear good things about them. What personal greatness got them to White House.

janelle
04-19-2005, 06:52 PM
Oh dear, probably Billy Graham will be accused of being gay many years from now since he has the strict rule never to be alone with any woman other than his wife to avoid any hint of scandal. People will say it's because he was gay an wanted to only be alone with men. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The Ten Commandants speaks of making false testamony of others. I think this falls under that commandant. Thou shalt not bear false witness. :confused: so many books out there today doing just that to all kinds of people.

janelle
04-19-2005, 06:54 PM
I would.. I would find it offensive for someone to ASSUME that I am something that I am not. reather that be gay or what ever elese. It would be offensive to be no matter what it was. ( i see nothing wrong with being gay )
but i do see something wrong with ppl assuming something about others.

That is so true.

YNKYH8R
04-20-2005, 04:15 AM
Why on earth would you ask me a question like that? I wouldn't know if I found it offensive or not, because as far as I know I've never been mistaken for being gay, and as for that matter I don't know of any gay people in our area. I'm sure there are probably some around here somewhere, but I've yet to meet any that claimed to be. So I would say just by guessing, that I would think it was funny if someone mistaken me for being gay. Why, what would you do if someone mistaken you for gay?
Usually I just say "No, I'm sorry." and give a little chuckle. I don't find it offensive at all. It's kind of like being mistaken for some one elses old acquaintance. No harm no foul. :D

llbriteyes
04-20-2005, 06:32 AM
Speaking of Billy Graham, I don't know about him being gay, I don't think that many people really care anyway. The ten commandments speaks of making false testimoney, and the bible in general warns of false prophets. Believe what you read, or believe what PEOPLE tell you to believe. That's the question.

btw... I was in a movie a few summers ago about Leroy Jenkins. Talk about false prophet!

Linda



Oh dear, probably Billy Graham will be accused of being gay many years from now since he has the strict rule never to be alone with any woman other than his wife to avoid any hint of scandal. People will say it's because he was gay an wanted to only be alone with men. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

The Ten Commandants speaks of making false testamony of others. I think this falls under that commandant. Thou shalt not bear false witness. :confused: so many books out there today doing just that to all kinds of people.

Jolie Rouge
04-20-2005, 06:17 PM
Bush Harks Back to Lincoln's Example
By Warren Vieth Times Staff Writer

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. — President Bush dedicated a presidential museum Tuesday in Abraham Lincoln's adopted hometown, and said that Lincoln's ideals were a source of inspiration for policies his own administration was pursuing.


Opening the $90-million Lincoln museum, Bush sought to draw a connection between Lincoln's efforts to expand the concept of liberty by abolishing slavery and America's current initiatives to promote democracy in Iraq, Afghanistan and other countries with authoritarian pasts. "American interests and values are both served by standing for liberty in every part of the world," Bush said. "Our interests are served when former enemies become democratic partners…. Our deepest values are also served when we take part in freedom's advance, when the chains of millions are broken and the captives are set free."


Bush, who has called Lincoln his favorite president, said the opening of the museum in downtown Springfield was a reminder that Lincoln had helped the nation confront its unresolved conflict between the Founding Fathers' promise of liberty and the continuing acceptance of slavery during Lincoln's time. "None of us can claim his legacy as our own, but all of us can learn from the faith that guided him," Bush said. "Whenever freedom is challenged, the proper response is to go forward with confidence in freedom's power,".


Bush's comparison of Lincoln's ideals to his own beliefs reflects the enormous popularity of the self-taught lawyer who guided the nation through the Civil War before being felled by assassin John Wilkes Booth in 1865. Although Lincoln did not move to Illinois until the age of 21, he practiced law and honed his politics in Springfield before running for president in 1860.


Bush chose to participate in the museum dedication Tuesday rather than attend ceremonies marking the 10th anniversary of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Vice President Dick Cheney represented the administration at that event.


Bush, the nation's 43rd president, said he felt a special affinity for Lincoln, the 16th. "In a small way, I can relate to the Rail-Splitter from out West, because he had a way of speaking that was not always appreciated by newspapers back East," Bush told a crowd that included dozens of Lincoln impersonators sporting stovepipe hats.


Bush was introduced by House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.), who has advanced many of Bush's initiatives in the Republican-controlled Congress. He shared the stage with prominent Democrats who also praised Lincoln's legacy, including Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich and the state's two U.S. senators, Richard J. Durbin and Barack Obama.


Obama, the only African American in the 100-member Senate, said Lincoln "was not a perfect man nor a perfect president." By contemporary standards, his condemnation of slavery seemed tentative, Obama said, and he sometimes yielded to political pressures. "Yet despite these imperfections, despite his fallibility, indeed perhaps because of that painful self-awareness of his failings … when it came time to confront the greatest moral challenge this nation has ever faced, Lincoln did not flinch," Obama said.


Before the dedication ceremony, the president and First Lady Laura Bush were given a 20-minute tour of the museum, which combines theme-park-style special effects and interactive displays with more traditional artifacts and biographical material.


The 50,000-square-foot museum traces Lincoln's life from the rural cabin where he read by candlelight as a boy to the state Capitol rotunda where his body lay in state after his assassination.


The museum includes 12 theatrical sets, two multimedia shows, a mock TV newscast of the 1860 election, life-sized silicone reproductions of Lincoln and his contemporaries, along with holograms, strobe lights and animated graphics.


Designed by BRC Imagination Arts of Burbank, the museum has been derided by some observers as "Abe World" and "Six Flags over Lincoln," but praised by others for seeking to blend scholarship and showmanship in one setting.


The facility is part of the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum complex funded mainly by the state of Illinois. A $25-million library adjacent to the museum opened last year.

Bush noted that the museum was located a few blocks away from the old train station where Lincoln delivered a prophetic farewell address after being elected president in 1860. "I now leave, not knowing when or whether ever I may return, with a task before me greater than that which rested upon Washington," Lincoln said.

He never returned to Illinois during his lifetime.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20050420/ts_latimes/bushharksbacktolincolnsexample&e=5

YankeeMary
04-21-2005, 07:41 AM
I just wish I had nothing better to do then to worry about who or whom Abe slept with..lol...imagine researching this and even getting paid for it. WOW...unreal. Let the man rest in peace.

janelle
04-21-2005, 10:47 AM
It's all in the effort to make homosexuality acceptable. Giving Rome as an example that gayness is ok is DUH. That is one of the reasons Rome fell. Not just that, but perversions of all kinds that the people were caught up in. They became a weak society.

Quoting Kinsey is not my favorite. I heard his main study group for sexuality were men in prison. But his contention that we are all made up of a series of sexuality across the board makes sense to me. We all have the chance to express our homosexuality but our morals and sense of the right way to relate to the opposite sex stops us from expressing it. IMO that is why we have so many bi-sexual people now. They are encouraged to explore and they do.

YNKYH8R
04-21-2005, 10:53 AM
It's all in the effort to make homosexuality acceptable. Giving Rome as an example that gayness is ok is DUH. That is one of the reasons Rome fell. Not just that, but perversions of all kinds that the people were caught up in. They became a weak society.
LOL! How did homosexuality bring down the Romans? What were they too busy to fight?

janelle
04-21-2005, 10:56 AM
NO they were too busy caught up in perversions not only sex to defend themselves from raiders.

fatesfaery
04-21-2005, 11:03 AM
Rev Leroy Jenkins......he still gives away free vials of 'holy water'. I used to get quite a few calls from people requesting it. Also got a call from a man who told me all about a scandal about the holy water being contaminated.

As far as Lincoln is concerned.....so what if he was?


Speaking of Billy Graham, I don't know about him being gay, I don't think that many people really care anyway. The ten commandments speaks of making false testimoney, and the bible in general warns of false prophets. Believe what you read, or believe what PEOPLE tell you to believe. That's the question.

btw... I was in a movie a few summers ago about Leroy Jenkins. Talk about false prophet!

Linda

llbriteyes
04-21-2005, 12:33 PM
Ok, how many personalities do you have?

The fall of Rome came because people were gay? lol

Your second paragraph actually made sense, which scares me because I know who wrote it.

Linda



It's all in the effort to make homosexuality acceptable. Giving Rome as an example that gayness is ok is DUH. That is one of the reasons Rome fell. Not just that, but perversions of all kinds that the people were caught up in. They became a weak society.

Quoting Kinsey is not my favorite. I heard his main study group for sexuality were men in prison. But his contention that we are all made up of a series of sexuality across the board makes sense to me. We all have the chance to express our homosexuality but our morals and sense of the right way to relate to the opposite sex stops us from expressing it. IMO that is why we have so many bi-sexual people now. They are encouraged to explore and they do.

llbriteyes
04-21-2005, 12:35 PM
OMG... I could write a book about Leroy Jenkins. He used to be headquartered about 10 miles south of me. He got his "holy water" from a well in his back yard that was later condemned as contaminated. He STILL offers it.

Linda



Rev Leroy Jenkins......he still gives away free vials of 'holy water'. I used to get quite a few calls from people requesting it. Also got a call from a man who told me all about a scandal about the holy water being contaminated.

As far as Lincoln is concerned.....so what if he was?

janelle
04-21-2005, 12:50 PM
llbriteyes would you please stop beating up on me? :confused:

llbriteyes
04-21-2005, 01:03 PM
I'm not beating up on you. I was debating a point. You believe differently than I do. I don't have a problem with that. Never have. My problem with you came when you attacked me. Until then, it was a debate.

Here's my basic belief. My religion is MY business and yours is YOUR business. We BOTH have the right to believe as we choose. That is what is SO important about living in the U.S. The problem comes in when a specific movement aggressively pursues a specific group with discrimination.

When I'm attacked, I attack back. I don't like to be told what I believe, or why what I believe is wrong. I guess we won't know til we TRULY get there.

So lets agree to disagree, and move on. We will never agree on this issue.

Linda



llbriteyes would you please stop beating up on me? :confused:

janelle
04-21-2005, 01:06 PM
ITA but the see you in hell part was totally uncalled for.

llbriteyes
04-21-2005, 03:13 PM
Yeah well, seeing as it was a response to an attack on me by you, I thought it apt.

Let it go. In here and everywhere else.

Linda



ITA but the see you in hell part was totally uncalled for.

aloha2u
04-21-2005, 07:27 PM
Is it Gay Awareness week or something? Too weird that this topic has been brought up so much this week at this site and I read the paper last night and they had several articles pertaining to Gay issues too. I was slightly miffed since they were from the local public high school in response to a Day of Silence held to raise awareness for discrimination against Gays. Boy, I don't remember this stuff from my high school days. LOL

YNKYH8R
04-22-2005, 04:50 AM
Oh yes high school wher eif you were even rumored to be gay you were ostracized.(sp) It was so annoying being picked on all the time for being something I was not. Yeah those were the days...when some very violent fights would break out over someones sexual preference.

Funny how when my sister graduated from the same high school eight years later a student came 'out of the closet' during graduation and it was commended. It is good to see change. :D

*Because it takes guts to be who you want to be in this day and age rather than trying to be what society wants you to be. (Can I get an AMEN!?!) :)

llbriteyes
04-22-2005, 06:40 AM
hehehe need you ask?

Linda



Oh yes high school wher eif you were even rumored to be gay you were ostracized.(sp) It was so annoying being picked on all the time for being something I was not. Yeah those were the days...when some very violent fights would break out over someones sexual preference.

Funny how when my sister graduated from the same high school eight years later a student came 'out of the closet' during graduation and it was commended. It is good to see change. :D

*Because it takes guts to be who you want to be in this day and age rather than trying to be what society wants you to be. (Can I get an AMEN!?!) :)