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View Full Version : Abstinence seems to be backfiring



tigger4
04-12-2005, 05:16 AM
I was watching Bill Maher the other evening and he was talking about the Christian Right and their abstinence policy for teenagers. Yes, I know Bill Maher is not exactly the most conservative person in the world before anyone says it. What I found interesting was the article he was talking about from USA Today. The Christian Right has been pushing for no sex ed in the classrooms, abstinence only is their motto. Did you know that teens who sign abstinence contracts are 6 times more likely to engage in oral sex? And 4 times more likely to engage in anal sex?

The people who are pushing for abstinence only education are not doing our teens any favors. These kids are performing risky sex acts without realizing how detrimental they could be to their health. They don't realize they can get STDs in their mouths and that anal sex can lead to AIDS. I am astounded by the parents, grandparents, and politicians who believe that if you don't tell them about it they won't do it. Heck, I didn't tell my son about picking his nose but you sure can bet he has done it.

It is actually ironic if you think about it. The Christian Right or the Moral Values people as they like to be seen as are all sanctimonious about their children and their moral values towards sex when in reality they are doing things that I know adults who have never done.

My mom and I had a huge disagreement about this the other day. She swears that if you don't tell them about sex they won't do it. Kind of funny that my Grandmother never told her about sex and mom got pregnant with me when she was in high school. Kinds of blows that theory, huh?

Here is the article I am talking about.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-18-sex-study_x.htm

tibbles
04-12-2005, 05:44 AM
hmm, well abstinence education is what i do and i have a few comment shere:
1. i agree 100% with you: not talking about it is probably the WORST thing you can do. parents especially are their kids #1 defense against getting involved in risky behaviors like sex.
2. we dont know what kind of "abstinence" messages the kids surveyd in this studyw ere presented. as leslie stated in the article from USA today, a TRUE abstinence message teaches that oral, anal, vaginal, any of it, its all sex. the program we teach where i live says if hands are where underwear should be, its sex. (i have seen cases of STDs on hands too.)
3. the typical mindset of teens if that if you cant get pregnant form it, it isnt sex, so oral, anal, mutual masturbation, etc, isnt considered sex. so lastly, to all of you parents out there
4. TALK TO YOUR KIDS!!!!!
just some quick stats on STDs:
there are more than 4 million new cases of chlamydia REPORTED every year.
there are more than 1 million people currently infected with HIV and about 20% of thos ear ein young adults.
there are 5.5 million new cases of HPV (human papiloma virus every year. HPV causes 98% of cervical cancer.

i could go on and on with this stuff. i am happy to answer questions and give advice. i have lots of brochures i would be happy to send to anyone interested.
tricia@psclebanon.org

Jaidness
04-12-2005, 05:46 AM
It is actually ironic if you think about it. The Christian Right or the Moral Values people as they like to be seen as are all sanctimonious about their children and their moral values towards sex when in reality they are doing things that I know adults who have never done. I saw that show tigger4, (I love Real Time!!) Needless to say i was a bit surprised at the statistics. I was almost laughing at the way these abstinence people keep their virginity by using oral sex and anal sex as a way to preserve their virginity. How is that abstaining from sex? Granted less pregnancy but still, like you said, these kids are doing stuff that people my age haven't even done. Which makes me wonder about their future sex lives. I thought sodomy was a sin or at the very least a moral no-no. it is a shame that no doen't just mean no anymore it just means figure out a way around it, and a kinda dangerous way it can be.

ahippiechic
04-12-2005, 06:18 AM
I was watching Bill Maher the other evening and he was talking about the Christian Right and their abstinence policy for teenagers. Yes, I know Bill Maher is not exactly the most conservative person in the world before anyone says it. What I found interesting was the article he was talking about from USA Today. The Christian Right has been pushing for no sex ed in the classrooms, abstinence only is their motto. Did you know that teens who sign abstinence contracts are 6 times more likely to engage in oral sex? And 4 times more likely to engage in anal sex?

The people who are pushing for abstinence only education are not doing our teens any favors. These kids are performing risky sex acts without realizing how detrimental they could be to their health. They don't realize they can get STDs in their mouths and that anal sex can lead to AIDS. I am astounded by the parents, grandparents, and politicians who believe that if you don't tell them about it they won't do it. Heck, I didn't tell my son about picking his nose but you sure can bet he has done it.

It is actually ironic if you think about it. The Christian Right or the Moral Values people as they like to be seen as are all sanctimonious about their children and their moral values towards sex when in reality they are doing things that I know adults who have never done.

My mom and I had a huge disagreement about this the other day. She swears that if you don't tell them about sex they won't do it. Kind of funny that my Grandmother never told her about sex and mom got pregnant with me when she was in high school. Kinds of blows that theory, huh?

Here is the article I am talking about.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2005-03-18-sex-study_x.htm


I agree. I was raised by my grandparents, the only thing I was told about sex was NOT to do it. But I didn't listen and was pregnant at 16. I wish I had had someone to talk to me about things and get me on birth control. I wouldn't take the world for my son, but wish I had been older when I had him.

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 06:34 AM
It just kills me.

adorkablex
04-12-2005, 07:32 AM
Abstinence only education is crap. Because even if the schools don't tell your children about sex, one of their friends is going to. Better yet, they'll find your husbands dirty magazines and assume that thats what sex is all about.

Children and young adults (and apparently older adults as well) all need to be informed not only about std's that you can get, but all of the ways they can contract

Just a little tidbit, in South Carolina (Greenville County) when I had sex ed in 6th grade, it was abstinence only... and 3-4 of the girls I knew growing up were pregnant by 16. Compare this to the sex education I had in North Carolina (Guilford County) in the 7th and 8th grades.. none of the girls I went to school with have gotten pregnant.

schsa
04-12-2005, 07:49 AM
Teenagers will experiment and if it feels good they are likely to do it again and again. By removing any sex education in the classroom you are pushing America back to the 50's when if a teenage girl got pregnant either she married the boy or she was sent away to have her child and then she came back after it was over, expecting to act as if nothing happened. And yet she might as well have worn a label that said she was easy on her forehead.

We have passed that point. Every magazine that is published and is aimed at teens and young adults deals with the issue of sex. You can learn about it on the internet. You can read about it in your daily newspaper. To take sex education out of the classroom is to deny that it exists when everywhere around them, teens will see that it does exist. Why not give them the information that they need to make a decision and the knowledge of how to prevent the spread of STD's and pregnancy. They may not use it at 16 but it might come in handy later in their lives.

YNKYH8R
04-12-2005, 08:02 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial/tmate050409.gif

YNKYH8R
04-12-2005, 08:17 AM
Everyone here has had a great point. (Jaidness you haven’t tried half of the things that some of these teenagers are doing…….? Wow!) One has to look at what does abstinence really mean, in respect to how you teach it. Are you trying to curb sexual behavior or are you trying to curb teen pregnancy? If the answer is pregnancy then of course sexually active teenagers are going to look for something out side of vaginal intercourse to avoid pregnancy. Communication, communication, communication is the key. If you’re embarrassed don’t worry; behind closed doors your children say and do things that might embarrass YOU more than you know.

I think the stifling of sex-ed started (just my opinion now) with our sexually immature mind that we have as parents. Think of it. If you had a small boy and were teaching him body parts would you call it a wee-wee or a penis? Why would you call it anything other than its given name; because parents are embarrassed by it? The same goes for female body parts. If we eliminate the “taboo” of sexual words, and get over our eighth grade embarrassment, then we can feel more comfortable about having conversations. And please, please we need to get our terminology right. Just because some girls dress like a hooker doesn’t necessarily mean they are having sex and are a slut. Judge by what is on the inside. I don’t know how many people I knew in high school whom others called slut; and they weren’t even sexually active.

eeyore329
04-12-2005, 08:23 AM
I was watching a show on Discovery Health TV the other night. It was talking about kids -teens - who think oral sex is NOT sex. It talked to a girl who was 15 and she lived with her dad. She told him she was a virgin, when in fact she had been giving oral to her boyfriend.
Sex is Sex!! Doesn't matter what kind to me. I think educators, and everyone else need to step up and tell kids the DANGERS of any kind of touching, sex, etc. I agree with another post that said if your hands are where underwear is supposed to be, then it is SEX!.
I have 3 kids. I don't want them getting the wrong message about this. They are 5, 7, and 9, but when the time comes to inform them of the dangers of sex, my husband and I will. It is wrong morally to have sex before marriage and with the same sex. We are trying to teach our kids morals.
Abstinence is the only way. NOT half-abstinence. KEEP YOUR HANDS TO YOURSELF. Isn't that what we taught our kids when they were in pre-school and playing with other toddlers and small children. Then it should still stick.
I know kids are going to do what they want, but helping them to do what is right may possibly help in the long run.

JMO

sahmsfreeb
04-12-2005, 08:44 AM
children should be married at age 10! :mad: :mad:
married people have no sex! :eek:

heck im married and i have no sex whatsoever! :rolleyes: :p ;) :D


all joking aside.... i keep asking myself this question... where are these kids getting all the free time alone to have sex/ nonsex?

are our children being monitored anymore by their parents?

my cousin who at the time got preg at 14... by a man 18.. her mom thought it was so sweet cute etc.. that she was dating an older boy...

her mom would let them spend time alone in the family camper... "quality time" cause he was broke...

well the camper is where the baby was concieved... :eek: and not on the first try either... :eek: :eek: :eek: :(


im not saying to be up your kids butts 24/7 but if i am super busy then my kid should be too! with school and work! not with sex and other activities!

school is 6 hours a day... followed by an hour or 2 of homework daily... then perhaps an after school job cause hey.. "i aint payin for your car or your insurance! or your clothes that are in style!" not to mention sports and practiceing for sports...

i wonder if these kids who are getting so involved in sex and nonsex are busy at all or if the moms and dads just arent monitoring their children.....


just a thought...

Njean31
04-12-2005, 10:44 AM
kids are psychosexually messed up. I don't care what most of them are "taught" by parents, teachers, pastors, whatever, they are more inflenced by what they SEE & peer pressure. the entire sexual climate of the US is corrupt. if i believe correctly and i'm sure to get some flames, but the whole idea of oral sex is not REAL sex seems to me to have come around the time a certain famous individual showed the US that it wasn't REAL sex.

p.s. i WAS taught sexual education in school and wound up pregnant at 17 :eek:

My daughter who i had at 17 just finished high school last year and they taught sexual education and I talked about it openly with my daughter. she didn't wind up pregnant but 4 of her best friends (2 of them honor students/cheerleaders) did.

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 11:46 AM
Teens experiment. They experiment with pot, cigarettes, alcohol AND sex. Hopefully not all at the same time.

In my opinion, sex education (as well as those other things) should start at home, and early on in their lives. When they ask where babies come from is a GREAT time to explain to them about the vagina's and penises. My children grew up KNOWING, and KNOWING they could ask ANYTHING about ANYTHING... regarding sex or otherwise. Sure, I asked that they wait for marriage, but I KNEW they would experiement. All but my 21 year old virgin.

Just say "no" in my book doesn't work and is irresponsible as a parent. STD's these days can KILL you, and you better make darn sure your children are protected. You can't tell a DEAD child ANYTHING. You can tell them you'd prefer they waited, but for God's sake make sure they know how to protect themselves if they don't. Burying your head in the bible or whatever, is not a very smart way to go about things.

As such, I am grandchildless, much to my chagrin.

Eeyore, "the dangers of ANY kind of touching?" Sounds Victorian to me. Children at a young age should be tought the "dangers of strangers" and the "bad" touching, but for a teen to be told ANY touching is bad, is wrong. Holding hands? Could it lead to kissing? Is holding hands a gateway "drug" to oral sex? I think not. Do you also tell them homosexuals don't exist?

When teen boys look at teen girls and get "tingly," it isn't bad, its normal. And when men look at a pretty woman, it isn't being a perv, its being normal. Same is true when women look at men. It is because children are taught that "sex is bad" that we have MANY of the sexual problems with adults. Anywhere from sexual dysfunction to serious sexual perversions.

If you want to go with abstinence ONLY, at least teach them that masturbation is safer.

IN MY OPINION, people grow up totally screwed up because of two things. One is sex.

Linda

Njean31
04-12-2005, 11:58 AM
It is because children are taught that "sex is bad" that we have MANY of the sexual problems with adults. Anywhere from sexual dysfunction to serious sexual perversions.


Linda

i would agree that if you teach a child that sex is bad, then expose him to mtv, eminem, 50 cent lolipop song, whatever......then they will end up messed up. i don't believe though that there are that many mom's in the world like Stephen King's Carrie's mom.

sexual dysfunction usually has an underlying physiological cause if i remember correctly, and sexually perverted behavior is most likely learned behavior or the result of mental health issues. this is just what i was taught in nursing school.

Willow
04-12-2005, 12:01 PM
Eeyore, "the dangers of ANY kind of touching?" Sounds Victorian to me. Children at a young age should be tought the "dangers of strangers" and the "bad" touching, but for a teen to be told ANY touching is bad, is wrong. Holding hands? Could it lead to kissing? Is holding hands a gateway "drug" to oral sex? I think not. Do you also tell them homosexuals don't exist?

When teen boys look at teen girls and get "tingly," it isn't bad, its normal. And when men look at a pretty woman, it isn't being a perv, its being normal. Same is true when women look at men. It is because children are taught that "sex is bad" that we have MANY of the sexual problems with adults. Anywhere from sexual dysfunction to serious sexual perversions.

If you want to go with abstinence ONLY, at least teach them that masturbation is safer.



IN MY OPINION, people grow up totally screwed up because of two things. One is sex.

Linda


I agree! Teenagers are going to have girlfriends or boyfriends. They are going to kiss and hug and hold hands. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. I also don't think people (adults) that have sex before marriage are immoral but that's just my opinion.

Jaidness
04-12-2005, 12:11 PM
Everyone here has had a great point. (Jaidness you haven’t tried half of the things that some of these teenagers are doing…….? Wow!) <blush> well ummm yeah lol...if my husband could actually get home from fighting stinkin' Bushs filthy lyin' war maybe I could lol I have 6 nieces ages 6-16 and let me tell ya some of the things the older (and by older I mean the 12,14,15 and 17 yo) tell me their friends do ( cos ya know it isn't them doing it *wink wink*) shocked the heck out of me..when I was that age I didn't even know what oral sex was or teabagging or shrimping or anal sex whatever they call it where you all live. But the 14,15 and 17 yo all know about it explicitly, in detail and I wonder maybe with first hand knowledge. I personally think the best deterent to sex is making all these kids watch a baby for a week with supervision of course but minimal help. I know my 17 yo nephew after seeing what his parents went thru with his 6 yo sister has vowed never to have kids after seeing how much work it is being a responsible parent. Education is key, being honest is key, and having birth control available is important as well. Ps...did I mention I loved Bill mahers show Real Time? Very interesting and informative...always

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 12:24 PM
Here, I'm talking in general terms. Even if you DON'T teach your children that sex is bad, and then let them watch those shows (although I DON'T believe its the shows that are bad per se), they grow up psychologically inept. In reality, there are MANY moms in the world like Carrie's mom. Its easier to park their kids in front of the TV, computers, video games, etc. While I know these aren't particularly detrimental to the child, it is more what they experience than what they watch.

Experiences DO shape a child's mind. If they are taught sex is bad, they will see it as so. Sexual dysfunction can have different causes. Psychology can be one of them. Sexual perversion can have many causes as well.

Point being, what we teach our children is what they learn. They have outside influences as well. The sum of their experiences tell them what to believe about sex. Sexual issues are not inherent to all mentally ill people... I mean all mentally ill people don't have sexual perversions, and not all sexual perversions are caused by mental illness.

Linda



i would agree that if you teach a child that sex is bad, then expose him to mtv, eminem, 50 cent lolipop song, whatever......then they will end up messed up. i don't believe though that there are that many mom's in the world like Stephen King's Carrie's mom.

sexual dysfunction usually has an underlying physiological cause if i remember correctly, and sexually perverted behavior is most likely learned behavior or the result of mental health issues. this is just what i was taught in nursing school.

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 12:27 PM
I agree with everything you wrote. Except I don't know what some of those things you were talking about were. lol

btw... I love Bill Maher too!



<blush> well ummm yeah lol...if my husband could actually get home from fighting stinkin' Bushs filthy lyin' war maybe I could lol I have 6 nieces ages 6-16 and let me tell ya some of the things the older (and by older I mean the 12,14,15 and 17 yo) tell me their friends do ( cos ya know it isn't them doing it *wink wink*) shocked the heck out of me..when I was that age I didn't even know what oral sex was or teabagging or shrimping or anal sex whatever they call it where you all live. But the 14,15 and 17 yo all know about it explicitly, in detail and I wonder maybe with first hand knowledge. I personally think the best deterent to sex is making all these kids watch a baby for a week with supervision of course but minimal help. I know my 17 yo nephew after seeing what his parents went thru with his 6 yo sister has vowed never to have kids after seeing how much work it is being a responsible parent. Education is key, being honest is key, and having birth control available is important as well. Ps...did I mention I loved Bill mahers show Real Time? Very interesting and informative...always

janelle
04-12-2005, 12:34 PM
Did you know that teens who sign abstinence contracts are 6 times more likely to engage in oral sex? And 4 times more likely to engage in anal sex?
================================================== ========

Where did these stats come from? How do they know what kids do or don't do? No one knows unless someone ends up pregnant. Only those stats are reliable.

All you can do is teach abstenance and then hope for the best. Tell the kids about STDs and any and everything they ask about but then parents have to pray and hope their teen is smart enough to do the right thing. No one wants unwanted teen pregnancies but it happens no matter what you teach the kids. STDs happen no matter what you teach the kids. But teach them.

I'm not against abstinence teaching when it comes to sex ed. I think some are trying to tell us it doesn't work. So? Tell me what's perfect.

Jaidness
04-12-2005, 12:34 PM
[QUOTE No one knows unless someone ends up pregnant. Only those stats are reliable[/QUOTE]
I know.... cos ya get pregnant from oral and anal sex eh?


in response to lilbriteeyes

lmao girl...join the club I hated to ask but I had to know lol. I was shocked!

fatesfaery
04-12-2005, 12:43 PM
According to the USA Today link in the original post, the stats come from a study by Yale and Columbia Universities.


"The report by Yale and Columbia University researchers could help explain why a study by the same group last year found that despite having fewer sexual partners and getting married earlier, teens who pledge abstinence are just as likely to have STDs as their peers."

Parents should stress what they believe and what they're comfortable with....I was tought abstinence and got pregnant at 16. Abstinence was never something I taught my kids...I'm far too realistic for that.



Did you know that teens who sign abstinence contracts are 6 times more likely to engage in oral sex? And 4 times more likely to engage in anal sex?
================================================== ========

Where did these stats come from? How do they know what kids do or don't do? No one knows unless someone ends up pregnant. Only those stats are reliable.

All you can do is teach abstenance and then hope for the best. Tell the kids about STDs and any and everything they ask about but then parents have to pray and hope their teen is smart enough to do the right thing. No one wants unwanted teen pregnancies but it happens no matter what you teach the kids. STDs happen no matter what you teach the kids. But teach them.

I'm not against abstinence teaching when it comes to sex ed. I think some are trying to tell us it doesn't work. So? Tell me what's perfect.

janelle
04-12-2005, 12:55 PM
I have two neices and they both were taught abstinence. It worked with one and not the other. Just because one ended up pregnant does not mean it doesn't work. And I would bet most teens having sex of any kind are having oral sex as well. I guess we have to pick who is safer? Oral sex and no pregnancies or intercorse with oral sex and pregnancies? Of course STDS are caught both ways.

What is the stats on the number of kids getting pregnant with both kinds of sex ed? :confused:

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 02:20 PM
My parents took my birth control away from me. I had my son at 18. I was just told, "just say no." Doesn't always work. I taught my children to respect themselves and if they were going to have sex, "these" were their options for being safe. I'm with you.

Linda



According to the USA Today link in the original post, the stats come from a study by Yale and Columbia Universities.


"The report by Yale and Columbia University researchers could help explain why a study by the same group last year found that despite having fewer sexual partners and getting married earlier, teens who pledge abstinence are just as likely to have STDs as their peers."

Parents should stress what they believe and what they're comfortable with....I was tought abstinence and got pregnant at 16. Abstinence was never something I taught my kids...I'm far too realistic for that.

llbriteyes
04-12-2005, 02:22 PM
I don't know Janelle. How about we teach our children responsibility.

Linda



I have two neices and they both were taught abstinence. It worked with one and not the other. Just because one ended up pregnant does not mean it doesn't work. And I would bet most teens having sex of any kind are having oral sex as well. I guess we have to pick who is safer? Oral sex and no pregnancies or intercorse with oral sex and pregnancies? Of course STDS are caught both ways.

What is the stats on the number of kids getting pregnant with both kinds of sex ed? :confused:

eeyore329
04-12-2005, 05:21 PM
I wasn't saying that holding hands is wrong. If you think sex before marriage is ok, then that is your opinion. Just like everyone has their own opinion.
I was just saying that if you are touching in the private areas, those that are covered by bathing suits or underwear, then it is sexual. I wasn't trying to say holding hands or kissing leads to sex. Everyone makes their own decision. Teens do what they see. I agree. Abstinence will not be used by very many.......it is the safest way to not get STD's.
The best thing to do is teach your kids to do their best. Im not sure how to put this in words where I will not get FLAMED.
I was just putting in my opinion.
I hope the "head in the BIBLE" comment wasn't sent toward me. :rolleyes:

janelle
04-12-2005, 08:04 PM
I don't know Janelle. How about we teach our children responsibility.

Linda

ITA.

If it has anything to do with the private areas, its sex.

Our kids know this if they have been taught about good and bad touch with strangers at a young age. Kids playing dumb is not an excuse.

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 07:35 AM
I didn't say I thought pre-marital sex is right. I just think that along with teaching abstinence to your children, you should prepare them for reality. Masturbation is a MUCH safer way for teens to experiment with sex.

The bible reference was not specifically toward you or anyone else on this board, so you can quit rolling your eyes.

Linda



I wasn't saying that holding hands is wrong. If you think sex before marriage is ok, then that is your opinion. Just like everyone has their own opinion.
I was just saying that if you are touching in the private areas, those that are covered by bathing suits or underwear, then it is sexual. I wasn't trying to say holding hands or kissing leads to sex. Everyone makes their own decision. Teens do what they see. I agree. Abstinence will not be used by very many.......it is the safest way to not get STD's.
The best thing to do is teach your kids to do their best. Im not sure how to put this in words where I will not get FLAMED.
I was just putting in my opinion.
I hope the "head in the BIBLE" comment wasn't sent toward me. :rolleyes:

Linus1223
04-13-2005, 11:25 AM
No one knows unless someone ends up pregnant. Only those stats are reliable
I know.... cos ya get pregnant from oral and anal sex eh?




She must have had abstinence only education. :D






Kidding!

Ga-PEACH
04-13-2005, 02:23 PM
How funny this post is. I think alot of people on this board look for reasons to blame conservatives for all problems including teen pregnancy. Get a grip. I will teach my children about premarital issues and hopefully they will make the right decisions. I will be darned if I allow some stranger to teach my girls sex ed. I think the schools are way too liberal when it comes to teaching to begin with. But as you all have your opinions so too can I. But to try to point the finger and blame one person or a group of persons for this problem is ridiculous. Here is a big cause of the teen sex problem.....There are way too many parents out there who just do not have the time to spend with their children and allow their kids way too much freedom, they call them LATCH KEY KIDS. The kids come home from school, no supervision, sit on the couch play their x-box, loud music etc, and I bet not too many of them have ever seen or so much as visited the inside of a church, no matter what your belief, when you have no spiritual guidance in your life you will falter. These kids are so rampant everywhere, before you blow a gasket, I realize that alot of people have to work thus their kids come home on their own and so forth, and I can empathize but these kids just have no guidance and thus the mischief. So in this case and many many others the parents who want someone to blame should look in the mirror and ask themselves, how can I get more involved with my child so that they do the right thing??!! Too many people look on the outside to blame someone else rather than looking at the obvious sources for their childrens failures and mistakes.

eeyore329
04-13-2005, 02:46 PM
ITA. Kids-teens, are left alone too much. No adult supervision. On purpose or not. Some people work and others just don't care

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 02:48 PM
How funny this post is. I think alot of people on this board look for reasons to blame conservatives for all problems including teen pregnancy. Get a grip. I will teach my children about premarital issues and hopefully they will make the right decisions. I will be darned if I allow some stranger to teach my girls sex ed. I think the schools are way too liberal when it comes to teaching to begin with. But as you all have your opinions so too can I. But to try to point the finger and blame one person or a group of persons for this problem is ridiculous. Here is a big cause of the teen sex problem.....There are way too many parents out there who just do not have the time to spend with their children and allow their kids way too much freedom, they call them LATCH KEY KIDS. The kids come home from school, no supervision, sit on the couch play their x-box, loud music etc, and I bet not too many of them have ever seen or so much as visited the inside of a church, no matter what your belief, when you have no spiritual guidance in your life you will falter. These kids are so rampant everywhere, before you blow a gasket, I realize that alot of people have to work thus their kids come home on their own and so forth, and I can empathize but these kids just have no guidance and thus the mischief. So in this case and many many others the parents who want someone to blame should look in the mirror and ask themselves, how can I get more involved with my child so that they do the right thing??!! Too many people look on the outside to blame someone else rather than looking at the obvious sources for their childrens failures and mistakes.


No one was blaming Republicans or conservatives.

I don't need your spiritual guidance, thank you VERY much. And people who think that the only troubled children are the ones whom have working parents or aren't reading their bible every night before bed are full of crap.

And you know, it's quite easy if you don't want your children to learn actual facts all about sex.... don't sign the persmission slip. Golly who knew that teaching a child by a guide given to a teacher was liberal. If schools were so liberal, it'd be like a mini ACLU. Kids could wear WHATEVER they wanted as to not obstruct their freedom of speech.

If I were to go out and get knocked up it wouldn't be anyone's fault but my own. Because I've known about safe sex since I was 10-11 years old. Because my Mom didn't shelter me. And her teaching me about how to be safe and what the consequences if I wasn't careful didn't turn me into some slut who put out for every boy she met. But it was always in the back of my mind in those situations.

And the part about people blaming conservatives is no worse than Janelle blaming the popularity of blow jobs on Bill Clinton. :rolleyes:

Njean31
04-13-2005, 02:51 PM
And the part about people blaming conservatives is no worse than Janelle blaming the popularity of blow jobs on Bill Clinton. :rolleyes:


i believe that was me :D

by the way, i teach my children ALL about sexual issues, wouldn't mind if the school did either.......KNOWLEDGE = POWER ++++ i also teach them what the Bible has to say on the matter so if any of them get pregnant then they can ONLY blame themselves (and of course their partner) :)

Ga-PEACH
04-13-2005, 02:52 PM
ITA. Kids-teens, are left alone too much. No adult supervision. On purpose or not. Some people work and others just don't care
My point exactly!! It is really sad. But if parents would take responsibility for the way they raise their kids instead of trying to blame the schools etc the kids would have a better chance of making the right decisions.

Ga-PEACH
04-13-2005, 02:59 PM
No one was blaming Republicans or conservatives.

I don't need your spiritual guidance, thank you VERY much. And people who think that the only troubled children are the ones whom have working parents or aren't reading their bible every night before bed are full of crap.

And you know, it's quite easy if you don't want your children to learn actual facts all about sex.... don't sign the persmission slip. Golly who knew that teaching a child by a guide given to a teacher was liberal. If schools were so liberal, it'd be like a mini ACLU. Kids could wear WHATEVER they wanted as to not obstruct their freedom of speech.

If I were to go out and get knocked up it wouldn't be anyone's fault but my own. Because I've known about safe sex since I was 10-11 years old. Because my Mom didn't shelter me. And her teaching me about how to be safe and what the consequences if I wasn't careful didn't turn me into some slut who put out for every boy she met. But it was always in the back of my mind in those situations.

And the part about people blaming conservatives is no worse than Janelle blaming the popularity of blow jobs on Bill Clinton. :rolleyes:

First off no one preached anything to you, and you should read the whole post again if you think I did. Secondly the post did blame the conservatives, go through and re-read many of the follow ups. MY POST STATED THAT IT STARTS AT HOME WITH THE PARENTS FIRST. Do not blame others for your kids mistakes. Take responsibility for how you raise your kids and do not try to pawn it off on abstinence teachings etc. As for the other ideas in your post like reading the bible etc, I never stated anything of the sort in my post. Wow what a short fuse!!

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 03:00 PM
My point exactly!! It is really sad. But if parents would take responsibility for the way they raise their kids instead of trying to blame the schools etc the kids would have a better chance of making the right decisions.


But that's what school is there for. To teach children.

Ga-PEACH
04-13-2005, 03:08 PM
But that's what school is there for. To teach children.
School is for teaching, you are correct. Sex ed. is fine, but the original post blames the right christian conservatives for trying to also teach children abstinence, if they want to teach about sex in the schools, like how to use condoms, birth control etc. then they should also teach about the importance of abstinence and hopefully the kids make the proper decisions. It is up to the parents to talk to their kids, too many parents rely on others to guide their children and this is where the problems begin. Not enough people make time for their kids.

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 03:12 PM
First off no one preached anything to you, and you should read the whole post again if you think I did. Secondly the post did blame the conservatives, go through and re-read many of the follow ups. MY POST STATED THAT IT STARTS AT HOME WITH THE PARENTS FIRST. Do not blame others for your kids mistakes. Take responsibility for how you raise your kids and do not try to pawn it off on abstinence teachings etc. As for the other ideas in your post like reading the bible etc, I never stated anything of the sort in my post. Wow what a short fuse!!

I'm a tiny bit pms'y. And sick to death of everything turning political.

The thread may have had some hintings of that but no one said "conservatives are the ones getting our kids knocked up"

The remark about the Bible was simply rebutting
There are way too many parents out there who just do not have the time to spend with their children and allow their kids way too much freedom, they call them LATCH KEY KIDS. The kids come home from school, no supervision, sit on the couch play their x-box, loud music etc, and I bet not too many of them have ever seen or so much as visited the inside of a church, no matter what your belief, when you have no spiritual guidance in your life you will falter. These kids are so rampant everywhere

You made it sound as if a child not brought up in a God fearing household is some trouble maker who listens to loud music.

I don't run around reeking havok on the people in my neighborhood simply because I don't have 'spiritual guidance' in my life. I've explored several religions and don't believe in ANY of them. I'm quite content in my life and in my beliefs.

IMO, politics and religion have no say in this. It's about the safety and well being and health of children.

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 03:15 PM
School is for teaching, you are correct. Sex ed. is fine, but the original post blames the right christian conservatives for trying to also teach children abstinence, if they want to teach about sex in the schools, like how to use condoms, birth control etc. then they should also teach about the importance of abstinence and hopefully the kids make the proper decisions. It is up to the parents to talk to their kids, too many parents rely on others to guide their children and this is where the problems begin. Not enough people make time for their kids.


We WERE taught that abstinence is the only 100% surefire way of not getting infected with STDS or getting pregnant. But we also learned about birth control and about things other than normal intercourse. It's especially important in todays world where some children are homosexual. Because they may think it doesn't apply to them if they aren't having penis/vagina contact.

I think parents are too shy to talk to their children about sex. It's a taboo subject. They're afraid of embarrassing themselves and/or their children.

eeyore329
04-13-2005, 03:15 PM
teaching your kids IS your responsibility. You send them to school to learn.......but there is a thing called "homework"
Parent/Guardians need to teach them also

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 03:16 PM
i believe that was me :D

by the way, i teach my children ALL about sexual issues, wouldn't mind if the school did either.......KNOWLEDGE = POWER ++++ i also teach them what the Bible has to say on the matter so if any of them get pregnant then they can ONLY blame themselves (and of course their partner) :)


I was talking about what Janelle said in the Bill Clinton donating $ to the AIDS cause. :D I hadn't noticed what you said.

People have been giving oral sex to people for a LONG time. It's not his fault :)
Blame the people who made flavored condoms. ;) :D

Ga-PEACH
04-13-2005, 03:21 PM
I'm a tiny bit pms'y. And sick to death of everything turning political.

The thread may have had some hintings of that but no one said "conservatives are the ones getting our kids knocked up"

The remark about the Bible was simply rebutting

You made it sound as if a child not brought up in a God fearing household is some trouble maker who listens to loud music.

I don't run around reeking havok on the people in my neighborhood simply because I don't have 'spiritual guidance' in my life. I've explored several religions and don't believe in ANY of them. I'm quite content in my life and in my beliefs.

IMO, politics and religion have no say in this. It's about the safety and well being and health of children.

Actually the religion thing is completely within realm of this post. Since it was blaming the FAR CHRISTIAN RIGHT, Not once did I ever blame problems of our kids on NOT ENOUGH BIBLE READING. No one stated that all latch key kids run around and "reek havoc" I merely stated that too many kids have no guidance when it comes to their parents, I did not say ALL KIDS. That is all I stated, nothing more and nothing less. As for the politics, the FAR RIGHT, RIGHT and the like refers to the conservatives. No opinion there just factual.

Njean31
04-13-2005, 03:30 PM
I was talking about what Janelle said in the Bill Clinton donating $ to the AIDS cause. :D I hadn't noticed what you said.
;) :D

my bad :o

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 05:14 PM
I don't know how to split this post up to reply to each point, so I will bold it within....


How funny this post is. I think alot of people on this board look for reasons to blame conservatives for all problems including teen pregnancy. Get a grip. I will teach my children about premarital issues and hopefully they will make the right decisions.

I do think people look for reasons to blame others for what happens. Sometimes its warranted, and sometimes its not. I'm glad you're teaching your children about sex. I think that's very important.

I will be darned if I allow some stranger to teach my girls sex ed. I think the schools are way too liberal when it comes to teaching to begin with.

Then you better let the school know to take them out, because it IS taught, and it SHOULD be taught. Not every parent is as diligent as you in teaching their children. Better they learn it at school than off the streets.

But as you all have your opinions so too can I. But to try to point the finger and blame one person or a group of persons for this problem is ridiculous. Here is a big cause of the teen sex problem.....There are way too many parents out there who just do not have the time to spend with their children and allow their kids way too much freedom, they call them LATCH KEY KIDS.

We should all take a lesson from childhood. Pointing things at people can put out an eye. As to the parents who you say don't have time for them, they don't MAKE time for them. Yes... there are parents who have no choice but to work and spend time away from home. BUT... when they ARE with their children, they should spend it responsibly. There is nothing wrong with latch key kids.


The kids come home from school, no supervision, sit on the couch play their x-box, loud music etc, and I bet not too many of them have ever seen or so much as visited the inside of a church, no matter what your belief, when you have no spiritual guidance in your life you will falter.

Stop. Wrong. Not ALL kids do this. First of all, there are after school programs specifically FOR latch key kids... ooooops... Pastor Bush is getting rid of those. Also, as for your "opinion" as to spiritual guidance, that's crap. There are MANY people who don't believe what the Christian Right wants to shove down their throats. Church/Spiritual guidance doesn't make people falter. Parental irresponsibility does. If you want to point fingers, you best point them in the right direction. ALSO... loud music and x-box (movies, banned books, etc.) are NOT the downfall of our children. Again... look at the parents. Loud music does NOT make a person do bad things. The person has to have some serious problems to begin with if that's the case.

These kids are so rampant everywhere, before you blow a gasket, I realize that alot of people have to work thus their kids come home on their own and so forth, and I can empathize but these kids just have no guidance and thus the mischief. So in this case and many many others the parents who want someone to blame should look in the mirror and ask themselves, how can I get more involved with my child so that they do the right thing??!! Too many people look on the outside to blame someone else rather than looking at the obvious sources for their childrens failures and mistakes.

What a self-righteous, judgemental thing to say. You want people to spend more time with their kids, but it takes TWO incomes these days to even make ends meet. And this is the Bush Government In Action. Take away the programs that HELP with after school programs. Smart. Send 'em to church so they don't "falter" (your word, not mine).

There are MANY people who don't buy into the spiritual/churchy thing. Adorkablex being one of them. She sounds like a very well rounded young person. She also sounds wise beyond her years. I have not one, but TWO people in my home who aren't churchy. They are, gasp, athiests. They are two of the most upstanding citizens of these United States I know. They HAVE morals. They HAVE values. No. They may not agree with YOUR version, but it doesn't make it wrong. It makes them human.

Linda

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 05:18 PM
No... but you DID say those who don't have spiritual guidance or church WILL falter. That's a load. And its a lie.

Linda



First off no one preached anything to you, and you should read the whole post again if you think I did. Secondly the post did blame the conservatives, go through and re-read many of the follow ups. MY POST STATED THAT IT STARTS AT HOME WITH THE PARENTS FIRST. Do not blame others for your kids mistakes. Take responsibility for how you raise your kids and do not try to pawn it off on abstinence teachings etc. As for the other ideas in your post like reading the bible etc, I never stated anything of the sort in my post. Wow what a short fuse!!

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 05:20 PM
Couldn't have said it better. :)

Linda


We WERE taught that abstinence is the only 100% surefire way of not getting infected with STDS or getting pregnant. But we also learned about birth control and about things other than normal intercourse. It's especially important in todays world where some children are homosexual. Because they may think it doesn't apply to them if they aren't having penis/vagina contact.

I think parents are too shy to talk to their children about sex. It's a taboo subject. They're afraid of embarrassing themselves and/or their children.

janelle
04-13-2005, 05:42 PM
I was talking about what Janelle said in the Bill Clinton donating $ to the AIDS cause. :D I hadn't noticed what you said.

People have been giving oral sex to people for a LONG time. It's not his fault :)
Blame the people who made flavored condoms. ;) :D

It was a joke. Gee liberals have no sense of humor unless it's about Bush??? :rolleyes:

janelle
04-13-2005, 05:47 PM
How did the schools become the teacher of sex?

Some families need two incomes but most do not. Most people want two cars, brand name clothes, the latest electronics, etc, etc. We all know we can live just fine with the basics and not the extras but we all WANT the extras so two incomes are needed. The parents are off working to get all those goodies.

tigger4
04-13-2005, 05:58 PM
It was a joke. Gee liberals have no sense of humor unless it's about Bush??? :rolleyes:


I actually have a great sense of humor. And all of my humor doesn't come from Bushism's, although I will admit he has given me many chuckles. :D

tigger4
04-13-2005, 06:02 PM
How did the schools become the teacher of sex?

Some families need two incomes but most do not. Most people want two cars, brand name clothes, the latest electronics, etc, etc. We all know we can live just fine with the basics and not the extras but we all WANT the extras so two incomes are needed. The parents are off working to get all those goodies.

My husband and I both work. And not for extras. We work for the necessities and I bet the vast majority of families are in the same boat.

And as far as blaming the conservative Christians. I never blamed them, I said it was their "Abstinence Only" teachings that were leading to this problem. I am all for teaching kids not to have sex, but I am also all for teaching them ways to protect themselves if they do.

And as for it being the latch key kids who are the ones doing this kind of behavior. That is so not true. My best friend in junior high had a stay at home mom and she gave birth to my God Daughter when we were 13.

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 06:43 PM
The schools became a teacher of sex because the PARENTS taught abstinence. No... that's not fair. Its partially true though. Schools have to teach to the lowest common denominator, and unfortunately, there are many of them. Children with parents who don't care or won't teach, or teach wrong info, and it becomes a problem of society.

MANY families need... yes NEED two incomes. We don't have fancy or even NEW cars. I paid $500.00 for my 1990 Ford Escort, and we own a 1996 Saturn. That isn't frivolous. We DON'T live a frivolous lifestyle, and still two incomes are necessary. Well... to be truthful, only if we want to eat AND pay bills. We don't have brand new fine electronics. We have "just the basics," and it IS hard to survive. Oh I suppose I could save money if I had a garden and canned, but I DON'T HAVE TIME.

Parents are NOT just "working to get all the goodies."

Linda



How did the schools become the teacher of sex?

Some families need two incomes but most do not. Most people want two cars, brand name clothes, the latest electronics, etc, etc. We all know we can live just fine with the basics and not the extras but we all WANT the extras so two incomes are needed. The parents are off working to get all those goodies.

janelle
04-13-2005, 07:34 PM
You hit the nail on the head llbriteyes. You don't have time to do the money saving things our grandmothers did cause you are too busy working. Lots of women on this site are SAHM and they know how to budget to remain at home.

If you add up how much it costs to work outside of the home lots of times it doesn't pay to work. A person can't decrease their budget when they have to put in business clothes, transportation, etc, etc. it takes to work outside of the home.

Gettng back to Bill Mar saying abstinence is a failure---so what---condom use is a failure too. As long as any method will keep kids from unwanted teen pregnancies it isn't a failure with the kids will do it anyway theory. At least they aren't bringing an innocent life into the world when they can't take care of it.

llbriteyes
04-13-2005, 08:03 PM
I wish we all could be as perfect as you. Guess what. I don't work outside the home. I still don't have time. And I still don't have money, even though we have two incomes.

Don't assume I don't know how to budget. When the cost of gas continues to rise, the cost of fuel to heat my home in the winter goes up too. That's only PART of it. Have you SEEN grocery prices lately? We only have the internet because that's part of my son's rent to us. Do you know how much a person without health insurance pays for medication in one month? Not to mention medical bills. We aren't talking walkmans, and PS2, and hi-tech computers and such. We're talking BASIC living.

I think you're hopelessly out of touch with reality on that one.

And if Bush has his way, MANY programs used to help people out of poverty will be cut. Many programs used to educate our children will be cut. Forget about after school programs. Social Security? Forget it. And our children will have to pay for the huge deficit he's run up as well. Health Care? Non-existant. I don't know about you (actually I do), but the current government is more concerned about what goes on in our bedrooms than it does in our kitchens, and dining rooms, and living rooms. His policies have run our country almost into bankruptcy. THAT is why it takes two incomes. He spends too much time pandering to specific interests and forgets about what makes this America. The people. Yeah. The people. Go figure.

And abstinence does not cut it in this day and age. I didn't say it was right, but its the way it is. Tell a child to "just say no." Lets see the implications of that... The girl gets pregnant (and maybe gets clamydia in the process), drops out of school. Boy is too young to hold a job to be able to support the child. Parents kick the girl out (oh yes, many do) because they're a) ashamed of her, or b) can't afford another mouth to feed. Girl enters a shelter of some sort (if she's lucky), goes on welfare. Can't afford child care (and none is available because George deemed it be so) so she's stuck in a vicious cycle of welfare for her and her child. If she's lucky (and the government isn't giving her any breaks), she gets re-educated and can go out into the work force, leaving behind her child as a latch key kid, hellbent on watching MTV and listening to loud music. Raising her child by herself, and not having a GOOD job because she couldn't afford to go to college, the cycle repeats.

This is NOT the way to do things. You can't legislate morality. You can't PANDER to special interests and expect this country to grow. You can't RUN up a how-many-trillion-now deficit and say everything's fine. You can't IGNORE the problems here at home and then expect to be one of the most respected countries in the world. How many dollars are being sent overseas to help third world countries, when ignoring this one makes us become one?

What is it saying when we owe trillions of dollars to North Korea, China and Japan, and our President is saying, "Everything is cool here at the ranch?" Let's worry about getting our children into church and ignore the huge gaps where we're coming apart at the seams. We take care of everyone, it seems, except our own.

That sucks. It just sucks. And it makes me sad. I am ashamed to say I am American anymore. What has it come to mean? Look around you. Look really hard. Look in the inner city. Hell... look on your own block. This government has been for religion and business the ENTIRE term in office. It sickens me. Ignore poverty. Ignore it an it perpetuates itself.

I'm disgusted with the whole game.

Linda


You hit the nail on the head llbriteyes. You don't have time to do the money saving things our grandmothers did cause you are too busy working. Lots of women on this site are SAHM and they know how to budget to remain at home.

If you add up how much it costs to work outside of the home lots of times it doesn't pay to work. A person can't decrease their budget when they have to put in business clothes, transportation, etc, etc. it takes to work outside of the home.

Gettng back to Bill Mar saying abstinence is a failure---so what---condom use is a failure too. As long as any method will keep kids from unwanted teen pregnancies it isn't a failure with the kids will do it anyway theory. At least they aren't bringing an innocent life into the world when they can't take care of it.

adorkablex
04-13-2005, 08:34 PM
You hit the nail on the head llbriteyes. You don't have time to do the money saving things our grandmothers did cause you are too busy working. Lots of women on this site are SAHM and they know how to budget to remain at home.

If you add up how much it costs to work outside of the home lots of times it doesn't pay to work. A person can't decrease their budget when they have to put in business clothes, transportation, etc, etc. it takes to work outside of the home.

Gettng back to Bill Mar saying abstinence is a failure---so what---condom use is a failure too. As long as any method will keep kids from unwanted teen pregnancies it isn't a failure with the kids will do it anyway theory. At least they aren't bringing an innocent life into the world when they can't take care of it.

Excuse me (and no offense to anyone here) but I've seen several posts on here from sahm's complaining about $ trouble. Sometimes begging people for $ and things. So evidently being a sahm doesn't mean you 'budget' correctly. And I'm sorry but the whole 'it would cost more for me to work' excuse is bunk. I don't believe it and it's a crappy excuse. Especially in this day and age where there are several jobs where you can work from home. And I don't know about your Grandmother, but mine had to work as she was divorced when my Mother was 14 years old. Though she has always been quite good with a budget.

Working parents don't cause children to get pregnant. Ignorance on the subject is what gets teenagers pregnant.

I agree condoms aren't fail proof. That's why Mothers should put their daughters on birth control.

JKATHERINE
04-14-2005, 03:47 AM
How did the schools become the teacher of sex?

Some families need two incomes but most do not. Most people want two cars, brand name clothes, the latest electronics, etc, etc. We all know we can live just fine with the basics and not the extras but we all WANT the extras so two incomes are needed. The parents are off working to get all those goodies.


Hold on a minute, Janelle. :) I take issue with this comment. Adam and I both work. He works at his 40-hr a week job and is in the Army Reserve. I work about 52 1/2 hours a week at my home daycare and 16-18 hours a week at the hotel every weekend just so we can pay our housepayment, get groceries and barely eeek by. Yeah, we could get rid of the internet, but then I'd have no survey & focus group money which I save for special occasions, vacation and A v e r y's college fund. Even if we got rid of television, it wouldn't make enough of a difference so that we could work less. Those are our 'extras.'

Neither of us drive more than we absolutely have to. We both have used cars and make no payments on them. We don't buy 'extras' for ourselves unless it is with birthday or Christmas money, which, has been known to be used on groceries and bills sometimes anyhow.

The only real 'frivolous' thing that we will have spent on this year is our vacation to NH with my entire extended family. They go every year and we haven't been able to afford to for quite a long time. This year we decided that instead of spending our tax return (which is quite small compared to some of the ones I've heard of on here) on bills, bills and more bills, we'd allow ourselves to have some family time.

While I love my home job and enjoy my 2nd job, I would LOVE to be able to survive on Adam's income alone. It's just not possible.

I think maybe your statement was backwards and should have instead read: Most families need two incomes but some do not. :)

tigger4
04-14-2005, 03:48 AM
You hit the nail on the head llbriteyes. You don't have time to do the money saving things our grandmothers did cause you are too busy working. Lots of women on this site are SAHM and they know how to budget to remain at home.

If you add up how much it costs to work outside of the home lots of times it doesn't pay to work. A person can't decrease their budget when they have to put in business clothes, transportation, etc, etc. it takes to work outside of the home.

Gettng back to Bill Mar saying abstinence is a failure---so what---condom use is a failure too. As long as any method will keep kids from unwanted teen pregnancies it isn't a failure with the kids will do it anyway theory. At least they aren't bringing an innocent life into the world when they can't take care of it.

You're kidding, right? I work outside the home part time and most of that time I telecommute from home. My husband works full time. We don't have fancy things. My car is 13 years old and my husbands is 25 years old (and it is not fancy, it is a crappy old truck that gets him where he needs to go).

It doesn't cost me much to work outside the home. I don't need business clothes, I usually work from home and if I have to work out of my home I get paid for my mileage. So, it really isn't that expensive.

As for the garden thing. A lot of people live in apartments they can't have a garden. A lot of people rent homes. I know my landlord wouldn't be too happy if all of a sudden I tilled up a garden in my backyard. I actually put out tomato plants, but I never get tomatos because it is too darn wet here.

As for the stay at home mom budgeting better than I that is bull. I budget our money very well. But with the cost of things it is outrageous. Our car insurance on our two very old cars is $2000. We have never had an accident or a ticket either. And we are both over 25. Our health insurance is $300 a month, plus all the copays. Plus rent, food, household bills, and every once in a great great while we go out to eat.

And for the last part. No condoms are not 100% effective. But they are more effective at preventing AIDS than resorting to anal sex just so you can be a "Virgin" when you get married. They are more effective than ending up with chlamydia or herpes in your mouth because you decided oral sex wasn't sex. Teens are going to have sex whether we like it or not. I have a teenager and I prefer he wait until he is married, but it probably isn't going to happen. You can't be with your kids 24/7. First of all, who has the time. Secondly, it isn't healthy for you or them to be with them all the time. They can't grow as people if you can't let them go a little. My children may have sex before they are married, but they will be safe about it. They will have access to condoms and birth control pills if that is what they choose. Because to me it is more important that my child be a safe and healthy than be a virgin.

JKATHERINE
04-14-2005, 05:02 AM
Everyone here has had a great point. (Jaidness you haven’t tried half of the things that some of these teenagers are doing…….? Wow!) One has to look at what does abstinence really mean, in respect to how you teach it. Are you trying to curb sexual behavior or are you trying to curb teen pregnancy? If the answer is pregnancy then of course sexually active teenagers are going to look for something out side of vaginal intercourse to avoid pregnancy. Communication, communication, communication is the key. If you’re embarrassed don’t worry; behind closed doors your children say and do things that might embarrass YOU more than you know.

I think the stifling of sex-ed started (just my opinion now) with our sexually immature mind that we have as parents. Think of it. If you had a small boy and were teaching him body parts would you call it a wee-wee or a penis? Why would you call it anything other than its given name; because parents are embarrassed by it? The same goes for female body parts. If we eliminate the “taboo” of sexual words, and get over our eighth grade embarrassment, then we can feel more comfortable about having conversations. And please, please we need to get our terminology right. Just because some girls dress like a hooker doesn’t necessarily mean they are having sex and are a slut. Judge by what is on the inside. I don’t know how many people I knew in high school whom others called slut; and they weren’t even sexually active.

ITA :)

tibbles
04-14-2005, 07:19 AM
tigger4- just a little info about condoms for you- some of you may know from an earlier post that iam involved ina bstinence education. 1 in 6 condoms fail. so to say that condoms are not "100% effective" if an understatement. you alla s parents need to understand that pregnancy should be the least of your concerns. think about it; there are only 2 or 3 days of the month a girl can get pregnant. how many days of the month can she get an STD? every day. and yes, your sons dont have to worry abotu getting pregnant ever. but they have to worry about getting an STD every single ti9me they engage in a sexual act. whether it is intercourse, anal or oral or mutual masturbation (another popular "alternative"), the risk for STDs are there and it is PREVALENT. 1/5 sexually active teens will contract an STD before the age of 18. 1 in 5! thats unreal! and many of these are nto as simple as taking penacillin and its gone. herpes, human papiloma virus, HIV, heptititis, you have forever. and as we all know; IV leads to AIDs and there is not onec ase to date where someone has pulled through it. the bacterial STDS; chlamydia, gonnorhea, syphillis, trichomoniasis, etc. CAN be cured, but only if you know you have them. kindof difficult to know you an infection on your internal organs isntr it ladies? since you cant see them, and there typically arent any symptoms that woukld cause you to think to go get checked out... and if these go untreated, forget about getting pregnant. or at least staying pregnant. 75% of ecoptic (tubal) prenancies are caused by previous damage from STDs. this IS a real problem. handing kids a condom is not "safe" at the veery most its "safer". but they need to know the facts. they nee dto know what they are exposign themselves to. a condom only covers a small part of the body. many, in fact most of these diseases atre spread skin to skin. and i guarantee you, when you have sex, condom or no condom, skin is still touching skin. dont be naive and think your kids arent doing it or dont know. be open, be willing to answer questions. be honest. as i said in an earlier post, i am HAPPY to answer questions, send brochures, WHATEVER!!! its my job! please email me!
tricia@psclebanon.org

janelle
04-14-2005, 09:21 AM
HEY BACK OFF. I said some people need to work and that is fine. Lots of people and I mean lots work for the luxeries. They usually live in very nice neighborhoods and their kids have everything they want and more. Luxeries. We all see it, it's there and those parents work, have children who run wild. Thank goodness we also have parents who are responsible or the teen pregnancy would be double. Lot of teens are getting pregnant in their own home.

janelle
04-14-2005, 09:29 AM
Thanks Tibbles. My hubby works for two Gyn/OBs. They see sexually transmitted diseases with teens all the time. Most kids in our city share the same ones. Having more than one partner. He wishes the docs would go into the schools to teach about this. I don't know if they are allowed to do that.

Parents, schools, anyone and everyone need to teach kids about this, not just go use condoms and you will be ok. How naive.

adorkablex
04-14-2005, 09:55 AM
HEY BACK OFF. I said some people need to work and that is fine. Lots of people and I mean lots work for the luxeries. They usually live in very nice neighborhoods and their kids have everything they want and more. Luxeries. We all see it, it's there and those parents work, have children who run wild. Thank goodness we also have parents who are responsible or the teen pregnancy would be double. Lot of teens are getting pregnant in their own home.

Back off? Why? I've seen you pounce on people before. Many people don't work 2 jobs for luxuries. They work 2 jobs because they HAVE to. Not many people want to live right at the poverty level.

And so what if people want the finer things in life?! So what if someone wants a car that doesn't break down every month or so? So what if someone wants to live in a nice neighborhood instead of in some slum in the ghetto?! So what if someone wants to wear nice clothes and wants the same for their children?? We happen to have quite a few extras. Always have. I didn't turn out badly because we had extras because my parents taught be to appreciate things.. So if someone raises a spoiled child, it's their own fault for not teaching their children better. But golly.. electricity is an extra so do you think someone should sacrifice that so they can stay at home with their children? Especially when the children go to school from 7 am - 3 pm. Someone could work a part time job in that time and bring in extra money.

God forbid someone want to make enough money for all their bills and have a little left over for 'extras'.

Children are NOT wild simply because their parents work. Thats crap. And if that's your experience, maybe you just know trashy people who raise bad/trashy children.

Just a little tidbit for you, my best friend Lori (girl I've been best friends with since I was 5 years old) got pregnant at 15 years old. Had her first pregnancy scare at 14 years old. She nor anyone in her family ever missed a day of church in their life. Her Mom is a sahm and always has been. She didn't get pregnant in her own home. How do you explain that?

adorkablex
04-14-2005, 09:59 AM
Thanks Tibbles. My hubby works for two Gyn/OBs. They see sexually transmitted diseases with teens all the time. Most kids in our city share the same ones. Having more than one partner. He wishes the docs would go into the schools to teach about this. I don't know if they are allowed to do that.

Parents, schools, anyone and everyone need to teach kids about this, not just go use condoms and you will be ok. How naive.


No one is saying that you should tell a teenager 'just use condoms and you will be ok'. The majority of sex ed. classes that teach precautionary practices for sexual behavior also teach that abstinence is the only 100% safe sex. They stress that abstinence doesn't just mean normal vaginal intercourse that it includes oral sex, kissing, anal sex and 'petting'.

But why not teach teenagers to be safe if they aren't going to abstain from sex? What does it hurt?

janelle
04-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Ita

eeyore329
04-14-2005, 11:35 AM
ITA with the person that said something about the 2-3 days a girl can get preg. but everyday someone can catch STD's. Pregnancy is curable. IN 9 MONTHS they have a baby.......NOT ABORTIONS.......STD's they have to live with their whole life
who else agrees with this statement???????

llbriteyes
04-14-2005, 01:43 PM
I can't believe you went there. But there you went.

The following is quoted from National Abortion Federation, History of abortion:

Back-Alley Abortions
The prohibition of legal abortion from the 1880s until 1973 came under the same anti-obscenity or Comstock laws that prohibited the dissemination of birth control information and services.

Criminalization of abortion did not reduce the numbers of women who sought abortions. In the years before Roe v. Wade, the estimates of illegal abortions ranged as high as 1.2 million per year.1 Although accurate records could not be kept, it is known that between the 1880s and 1973, many thousands of women were harmed as a result of illegal abortion.

Many women died or suffered serious medical problems after attempting to self-induce their abortions or going to untrained practitioners who performed abortions with primitive methods or in unsanitary conditions. During this time, hospital emergency room staff treated thousands of women who either died or were suffering terrible effects of abortions provided without adequate skill and care.

Some women were able to obtain relatively safer, although still illegal, abortions from private doctors. This practice remained prevalent for the first half of the twentieth century. The rate of reported abortions then began to decline, partly because doctors faced increased scrutiny from their peers and hospital administrators concerned about the legality of their operations.

What's it to YOU if a woman has an abortion? How does that change YOU personally? Since you asked, its NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS who has an abortion. Period. It is legal.

Linda



ITA with the person that said something about the 2-3 days a girl can get preg. but everyday someone can catch STD's. Pregnancy is curable. IN 9 MONTHS they have a baby.......NOT ABORTIONS.......STD's they have to live with their whole life
who else agrees with this statement???????

llbriteyes
04-14-2005, 01:49 PM
And while I'm at it, it is people (republicans) who want to reverse Roe v. Wade making abortions illegal. So they perpetuate the poverty cycle. Instead of allowing a girl to have an abortion, she would be made to HAVE that child. Who takes care of that child? The girl goes on welfare and the cycle begins again.

NOBODY is suggesting partial birth abortions are right. I don't even want to hear about that. But this government again, in our bedrooms and boardrooms instead of paying attention to GOVERNMENT, wants to take away a personal right, keeping poverty at an all time high.

No. I'm not suggesting abortion as a means of contraceptions, but if some woman finds herself in that position, and feels abortion is her only way out, WHERE does this government (or any other) get off telling her what to do.

Linda



ITA with the person that said something about the 2-3 days a girl can get preg. but everyday someone can catch STD's. Pregnancy is curable. IN 9 MONTHS they have a baby.......NOT ABORTIONS.......STD's they have to live with their whole life
who else agrees with this statement???????

eeyore329
04-14-2005, 03:39 PM
I got lost on the last 2 posts......

llbriteyes
04-14-2005, 03:45 PM
It was probably way before then.

Linda



I got lost on the last 2 posts......

eeyore329
04-14-2005, 03:48 PM
what does that mean?

llbriteyes
04-14-2005, 04:06 PM
Well, my two posts regarding abortion came directly in response to your post regarding abortion. I posted an article about backalley abortions pre Roe v. Wade, and the role abortion plays in modern society.

It isn't that difficult to follow.

I explained what I meant just now. Would you please explain your post regarding abortion and the comment:

"IN 9 MONTHS they have a baby.......NOT ABORTIONS.......STD's they have to live with their whole life
who else agrees with this statement???????"

And why when I answered you were in the dark?

Linda



what does that mean?

Willow
04-14-2005, 04:20 PM
what does that mean?


This is off topic so I apologize but I was just curious how you can post using two different member names. I thought each member was only allowed one account. :confused: I noticed your other member name in your signature line and was just curious.

eeyore329
04-14-2005, 05:11 PM
NO NO NO......I didn't mean that abortions were good. I hope you are not thinking that. Iwas just saying to pregnancy is not the end of the world...it is curable by the birth of a child........it is NOT curable by abortion in my opinion....sorry for the confusion.
IS that way you were refering too?

eeyore329
04-14-2005, 05:12 PM
This is off topic so I apologize but I was just curious how you can post using two different member names. I thought each member was only allowed one account. :confused: I noticed your other member name in your signature line and was just curious.


I made this one for my mom and she doesn't use it,,,,but my ***CUPID*** is messed up. I can't do anything with it

llbriteyes
04-15-2005, 08:30 AM
I think the problem came about when I misunderstood what was written.

I don't believe abortions are good personally, but I wouldn't dare tell a woman she couldn't have one. That leads to legislating against abortion, and in turn, killing how many woman who have to have a "backalley" abortion.

I understand what you're saying in that pregnancy is temporary, limited to nine months.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Linda


NO NO NO......I didn't mean that abortions were good. I hope you are not thinking that. Iwas just saying to pregnancy is not the end of the world...it is curable by the birth of a child........it is NOT curable by abortion in my opinion....sorry for the confusion.
IS that way you were refering too?

eeyore329
04-15-2005, 09:07 AM
no problem........LOL I thought you were saying I was FOR abortion. Im not. But Im not going to tell someone she CAN"T have one......but I wouldn't want someone too.
back to the topic

ABSTINENCE means abstaining from any kind of sex!!!!!