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janelle
04-09-2005, 05:22 PM
Ron Panzer, president and founder of Hospice Patients Alliance, a patients' rights advocacy group based in Michigan, told WND that what is happening to Magouirk is not at all unusual.

"This is happening in hospices all over the country," he said. "Patients who are not dying – are not terminal – are admitted [to hospice] and the hospice will say they are terminally ill even if they're not. There are thousands of cases like this. Patients are given morphine and ativan to sedate them. If feeding is withheld, they die within 10 days to two weeks. It's really just a form of euthanasia."
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MATTERS OF LIFE AND DEATH
Granddaughter yanks grandma's feeding tube
81-year-old not terminally ill,
comatose, nor in vegetative state

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Posted: April 7, 2005
7:33 p.m. Eastern


By Sarah Foster
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

In a situation recalling the recent death of Terri Schiavo in Florida, an 81-year-old widow, denied nourishment and fluids for nearly two weeks, is clinging to life in a hospice in LaGrange, Ga., while her immediate family fights desperately to save her life before she dies of starvation and dehydration.

Mae Magouirk was not terminally ill, comatose nor in a "vegetative state," when Hospice-LaGrange accepted her as a patient about two weeks ago upon the request of her granddaughter, Beth Gaddy, 36, an elementary school teacher.


Also upon Gaddy's request and without prior legal authority, since March 28 Hospice-LaGrange has denied Magouirk normal nourishment or fluids via a feeding tube through her nose or fluids via an IV. She has been kept sedated with morphine and ativan, a powerful tranquillizer.

Her nephew, Ken Mullinax, told WorldNetDaily that although Magouirk is given morphine and ativan, she has not received any medication to keep her eyes lubricated during her forced dehydration.

"They haven't given her anything like that for two weeks," said Mullinax. "She can't produce tears."

The dehydration is being done in defiance of Magouirk's specific wishes, which she set down in a "living will," and without agreement of her closest living next-of-kin, two siblings and a nephew: A. Byron McLeod, 64, of Anniston, Ga.; Ruth Mullinax, 74, of Birmingham, Ala.; and Ruth Mullinax's son, Ken Mullinax.

Magouirk's husband and only child, a son, are both deceased.

In her living will, Magouirk stated that fluids and nourishment were to be withheld only if she were either comatose or "vegetative," and she is neither. Nor is she terminally ill, which is generally a requirement for admission to a hospice.

Magouirk lives alone in LaGrange, though because of glaucoma she relied on her granddaughter, Beth Gaddy, to bring her food and do errands.

Two weeks ago, Magouirk's aorta had a dissection, and she was hospitalized in the local LaGrange Hospital. Her aortic problem was determined to be severe, and she was admitted to the intensive care unit. At the time of her admission she was lucid and had never been diagnosed with dementia.

Claiming that she held Magouirk's power of attorney, Gaddy had her transferred to Hospice-LaGrange, a 16-bed unit owned by the same family that owns the hospital. Once at the hospice, Gaddy stated that she did not want her grandmother fed or given water.

"Grandmama is old and I think it is time she went home to Jesus," Gaddy told Magouirk's brother and nephew, McLeod and Ken Mullinax. "She has glaucoma and now this heart problem, and who would want to live with disabilities like these?"

Gaddy's telephone is not in operation and she could not be reached for comment.

According to Mullinax, his aunt's local cardiologist in LaGrange, Dr. James Brennan, and Dr. Raed Agel, a highly acclaimed cardiologist at the nationally renowned University of Alabama-Birmingham Medical Center, determined that her aortic dissection is contained and not life-threatening at the moment.

Mullinax also states that Gaddy did not hold power of attorney, a fact he learned from the hospice's in-house legal counsel, Carol Todd.

On March 31, Todd told Ruth and Ken Mullinax during a phone conversation Georgia law stipulated that Ruth Mullinax and her brother, A.B. McLeod, were entitled to make any and all decisions for Magouirk. Ruth Mullinax immediately told Todd to begin administering food and fluids through an IV and a nasal feeding tube.

Todd had the IV fluids started that evening, but informed the family that they would have to come to the hospice to sign papers to have the feeding tube inserted. Once that was done, Magouirk would not be able to stay at the hospice.

Ken Mullinax recalled that Todd said the only reason Magouirk was in the hospice in the first place was that the LaGrange Hospital had failed to exercise due diligence in closely examining the power of attorney Beth Gaddy said she had, as well as exercising the provisions of Magouirk's living will.

Todd explained that Gaddy had only a financial power of attorney, not a medical power of attorney, and Magouirk's living will carefully provided that a feeding tube and fluids should only be discontinued if she was comatose or in a "vegetative state" – and she was neither.

Gaddy, however, was not dissuaded. When Ken Mullinax and McLeod showed up at the hospice the following day, April 1, to meet with Todd and arrange emergency air transport for Magouirk's transfer to the University of Alabama-Birmingham Medical Center, Hospice-LaGrange stalled them while Gaddy went before Troup County, Ga., Probate Court Judge Donald W. Boyd and obtained an emergency guardianship over her grandmother.

Under the terms of his ruling, Gaddy was granted full and absolute authority over Magouirk, at least for the weekend. She took advantage of her judge-granted power by ordering her grandmother's feeding tube pulled out, just hours after it had been inserted.

Georgia law requires that a hearing for an emergency guardianship must be held within three days of its request, and Magouirk's hearing was held April 4 before Judge Boyd. Apparently, he has not made a final ruling, but favors giving permanent guardianship power to Gaddy, who is anxious to end her grandmother's life.

Ron Panzer, president and founder of Hospice Patients Alliance, a patients' rights advocacy group based in Michigan, told WND that what is happening to Magouirk is not at all unusual.

"This is happening in hospices all over the country," he said. "Patients who are not dying – are not terminal – are admitted [to hospice] and the hospice will say they are terminally ill even if they're not. There are thousands of cases like this. Patients are given morphine and ativan to sedate them. If feeding is withheld, they die within 10 days to two weeks. It's really just a form of euthanasia."

Ken Mullinax does not want that to happen to his aunt. He pointed out that one of the ironies in this tragedy is that the now-helpless woman worked for years as a secretary for a prominent local cancer doctor.

"She devoted her whole life to helping those who heal others, and now she's being denied sustenance for life," he said.

Mullinax said he has begged Gaddy to let him take on full responsibility for his aunt's care.

"If she would just give us a chance to keep Aunt Mae alive, that's all we ask," he said. "They [Beth and her husband, Dennis Gaddy] have a family and Beth is a teacher, and it was just getting to be a lot of trouble. But I'm the caregiver for my mom, and Aunt Mae could move in with us. We'll buy another house with a bedroom and we'll take care of her. She can move in with us once she can leave the hospital."

But her health becomes more precarious by the hour. Her vital signs are still good, but since admission to hospice she has not been lucid – "but who would be since nourishment and fluids have been denied since March 28," Mullinax remarked.

Attorney Carol Todd could not be reached for comment; a message on her voicemail said she would be gone the entire week of April 4. Hospice-LaGrange did not return phone calls.



WorldNetDaily has been reporting on the Terri Schiavo story since 2002 – far longer than most other national news organization – and exposing the many troubling, scandalous, and possibly criminal, aspects of the case that to this day rarely surface in news reports. Read WorldNetDaily's unparalleled, in-depth coverage of the life-and-death fight over Terri Schiavo, including over 150 original stories and columns.



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Editor's note: "Life and Death in America" – a stunning special investigative report that will start with the Terri Schiavo story, but will go on to expose as never before America's rapidly expanding euthanasia/"right-to-die" movement – will be the focus of an upcoming issue of WND's acclaimed monthly Whistleblower magazine.




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Sarah Foster is a staff reporter for WorldNetDaily.

Jolie Rouge
04-09-2005, 05:52 PM
I wonder where the News Crews and protestors are now ??

janelle
04-09-2005, 09:25 PM
My mother is 97 but I do not trust hospice anymore. Some people may have had good experiences with them but not everyone thinks they are wonderful.

What is happening to letting God decide when our time is? Leaving it up to imperfect people will lead to who knows what. I have an idea watching what the Natzis did.

justme23
04-09-2005, 10:08 PM
I'm not exactly sure why you seem so surprised... maybe it's because you feel no one here knows anything... but quite a few ppl (myself included) have posted about this going on... it is not anything new... my mother died almost 20 years ago (she WAS terminal tho) and hospice helped her go quietly and pain free w/ morphine over dose as opposed to fully aware, vomitting and seizing... you may not like it, but those of us who have watched the ppl we love suffer endlessly feel it is a blessing on those who are truely in pain.

Njean31
04-10-2005, 06:59 AM
hospice did not cause teri's death nor is is causing this ones death either . the courts have ORDERED these feeding tubes to be withdrawn. these 2 hospice organizations are doing what the court has ORDERED. why aren't you mad at the courts instead of blaming a wonderful organization? hospice does not have the authority to legally kill people. hospice does not have the authority to take out feeding tubes unless the family wants it done, which in SOME cases is necessary, OR IT IS COURT ORDERED. people who are actively dying (within weeks or days) do NOT need hydration because all that it does is put more strain on their system ie, kidneys, heart, lungs. thier organs are shutting down and force feeding only complicates and worsens their suffering. it is HARD to get families to understand this but it is a simple fact. Now in the case of teri and this lady above, they were NOT actively dying, BUT the courts ordered their tubes removed, hospice MUST oblige, again WE ARE NOT ABOVE THE LAW and do not feel that we are either. we do not overdose people on morphine. it is flatly against the law to over prescribe medicine of any kind. teri's hospice must be a different kind of organization than what i work at because we don't accept pt's unless they have a terminal illness which will cause their death within 6 months to a year. this is how most hospice's work.

and again, let me say that HOSPICE GETS PAID FOR LIVING PEOPLE, NOT DEAD ONES. SO WHY WOULD WE WANT TO RUSH DEATH ALONG? all we do is provide comfort measures. yes, there may be a bad apple here and there but overall hospice is very needed in this world.

here is some info on nutrition from hospice perspective.


Decisions About Artificial Food and Fluids


Providing food and drink is one way we nurture those we love. However, there comes a time when, as the body is shutting down, the usual amount of food and fluid may not be needed or helpful. At this time, a decision about whether to provide artificial feeding or IV fluid may be necessary.

\

When Nutrition Becomes a Concern

Most people who are terminally ill gradually lose their appetite and are not interested in food. This is part of the disease process and may be the body’s natural way of regulating intake to the amount that it can handle. Often, this is very distressing to caregivers because we all know intuitively that you must eat to survive and to feel well. However, it is very normal for the ill person to lose interest in food. Someone who is nearing the end of life may lose his appetite or ability to eat and drink for a number of reasons.

* As the disease progresses, the patient has a limited amount of energy available each day. We have to expend energy to eat and digest food. In the end stages of a disease, the process of eating, chewing up and digesting food requires more energy than is available.
* As the body’s internal systems slow down, it is less able to process food and fluids. Forcing food or fluids into a body that is saying “I don’t want food or fluids” can cause physical distress. Because the body can’t process the fluid adequately, it tends to pool in the arms, legs, or lungs. Problems such as edema (swelling of the body), lung congestion, nausea, diarrhea or infections may occur. Therefore, rather than providing a benefit, food or fluids may cause discomfort.
* Activity levels slow down as energy decreases, and some patients are asleep more than they are awake. The body simply doesn’t require the same nutrition it once did when the patient was more active.
* Disease progression can affect an area of the body associated with eating, preventing someone from being able to eat (i.e., swallowing difficulty, blockage to the stomach, etc.).
* Some treatments and medications affect appetite and the taste of food.
* Mouth sores or poorly fitted dentures due to weight loss can make eating uncomfortable and difficult.


Myths & Realities about Artificial Feeding & Fluids

Myth: Artificial feeding prolongs life.
Reality: Patients with advanced disease do not necessarily live longer with artificial feeding and may, in fact, suffer more as a result of the feeding. Artificially feeding the body often brings medical complications. This is more likely to be true if the illness is cancer, chronic lung disease, dementia, kidney failure, chronic heart disease or cirrhosis. Additionally, there is some evidence that cancer grows faster with extra nutrition. This is possibly because, in late-stage disease, the nutrients may “feed the tumor” rather than the body. Artificial feeding is most likely to extend life for patients with neurologic disorders like stroke or coma.

Myth: If the patient doesn’t eat, he will die of starvation.
Reality: Patients who stop eating because they have end-stage disease die of their illness, not a lack of food. Patients can live for months on a few bites of food and a few sips of fluid a day.

Myth: Without nutrition, the patient will suffer more.
Reality: When the body no longer needs or benefits from the nutrition being offered, there seems to be a mechanism that “turns off ” the appetite and the desire for food. At the same time, the body seems to compensate for the lack of food by producing a chemical that acts as a buffer preventing the hunger healthy people would experience if they stopped eating.

Myth: Dehydration causes suffering.
Reality: While dehydration can be a serious condition in a healthy person, we have learned that in the end stages of life the body simply can’t process all those fluids. Research has shown that many patients are actually more comfortable when the body does not have to struggle with fluid overload. If a patient has a dry mouth or feels thirsty, ice chips and drops of water can address those symptoms to keep the patient comfortable. Mouth swabs to help clean and moisten the mouth can be helpful. Putting fluids into an IV will not prevent a dry mouth and may cause fluid overload.

Myth: Artificial feeding is just like eating, but the nutrition is given another way.
Reality: Artificial feeding differs from eating and drinking in many ways, and should not be considered natural. When patients have a feeding tube in their stomachs, they lose the pleasure of eating. The pleasure of eating comes from the flavor of the food and from sharing a meal, neither of which occurs with tube feedings. Many patients are distressed by the change in their body image or by having to be hooked up to a machine. In addition, when food and fluids are given through a stomach tube or into an IV, the body cannot regulate the amount of intake relative to the amount it can handle. This can lead to problems with excess fluid in the system. Intravenous feeding requires very close monitoring through blood tests and can lead to bloodstream infections.

Myth: Patients will be stronger if they are fed artificially.
Reality: Patients are rarely stronger if they receive artificial feeding or fluids.

Myth: Tube feeding prevents pneumonia in patients who have swallowing problems.
Reality: Patients who receive their feeding through a tube into the stomach still are at risk for pneumonia, which occurs in approximately 50 percent of cases. Sometimes the feeding solution travels back up the esophagus and goes into the lungs. Such an event is called aspiration and is often the cause of pneumonia.

Myth: Patients who have difficulty swallowing cannot eat safely by mouth.
Reality: Many patients who have some difficulty swallowing can tolerate small amounts of food or fluid at a time, although they may need to limit the diet to soft or pureed foods and thickened liquids.

Myth: Tube feeding prevents bedsores and other problems due to malnutrition.
Reality: Tube feeding has not been shown to prevent bedsores, and having a tube may make it harder for the patient to move around, causing more risk of bedsores.


Weighing the Benefits and Burdens

Before making a decision to begin artificial nutrition, many factors should be weighed.

* There should be a clear understanding of what the goal of artificial feeding is, and the likelihood that this goal will be accomplished.
* The patient’s wishes should be honored. If he is unable to speak for himself, his wishes may have been documented in an Advance Directive. The risks and potential side effects should be weighed against the overall benefit expected from this decision.


Isn’t it illegal to let patients refuse a feeding tube or IV if they can’t eat?
Patients or their Durable Power of Attorney for Healthcare have the ethical and legal right to refuse any treatment, including artificial feeding and intravenous hydration. Every time I try to feed her, she closes her mouth and turns her head away. I feel like a terrible caregiver if I don’t feed her, but I know that she doesn’t want to eat. What should I do? She is responding to the messages her body is giving her about her nutritional needs. It is important to allow her the right to make these choices and have her wishes honored. If you are offering food and liquids and it is clear she doesn’t want them, then there is nothing for you to feel terrible about. The patient is making her own choice. Continue to offer her foods and liquids you think she may enjoy, but don’t force the issue.

back to Contents© 2004 Kansas City Hospice. All rights reserved.

Njean31
04-10-2005, 07:08 AM
and here is some info about the dreaded morphine:

Hospice Net


Pain Control: Dispelling the Myths
by Dr. Joel Potash, MD.

Hospice strongly advocates good pain control for terminally ill patients, even to the point of using narcotic drugs (we call them opiates) such as morphine as they are needed. With all the concern about drug abuse, patients and their families and friends sometimes question this use of narcotics. Are we pushing “dope”? Or are we practicing good medicine? Let’s explore some of the myths about the use of narcotics for pain control.

Myth #1: Morphine is offered to patients only when death is imminent.

It is not the stage of a terminal illness, but the degree of pain that dictates which medicine to use. We start with the mildest medicine and if it works, stop there. If it doesn’t we move on, to morphine when it’s appropriate. Some people never need morphine, while others will require it for quite a while. You can live for a long time on morphine.

Myth #2: People who take morphine will become addicted.

Drug addicts are people who are driven by their needs for narcotics; they may commit crimes or harm others to get their needs met. Hospice patients usually don’t have drug-seeking behavior. When their pain is in good control, they don’t desire more opiates. Sometimes we can even decrease the dosage. If patients take morphine for a while, their body does become used to it and it should not be suddenly stopped, because side effects could occur. However, hospice patients on morphine are not considered to be addicts.

Myth #3: People who take morphine will become so sedated (sleepy) that they can’t function.

When patients start to take drugs like morphine, they often feel drowsy for a few days. But their bodies usually will very quickly build up a resistance to the sedating effects. Most patients whose pain is well controlled on morphine are not bothered by unusual sleepiness. Some people, however, notice a difference in their alertness and might choose somewhat less than perfect pain control as a tradeoff.

Myth #4: People who take morphine die sooner because morphine causes them to stop breathing.

Fortunately, patients quickly adjust to any effect that morphine may have on their breathing. We prescribe a small initial dose, gradually increasing it if needed. So rarely do breathing problems occur, they are usually not even listed as side effects. In fact morphine is a drug of choice for breathing distress in people with end-stage heart or lung disease: it makes their breathing more comfortable.

Myth #5: I’m allergic to morphine: once I had a shot of morphine after an operation and I felt very strange.

Of course you can be allergic to morphine just like any other medicine. But feeling strange is not a sign of morphine allergy usually. Some people may have unpleasant mental sensations temporarily when they start to take morphine. But that is not an allergy; and it might never recur. There are other opiates available for those people who are truly allergic to morphine.

Myth #6: Morphine must be given by injection.

We used to think that opiates were not effective unless administered by injection. But Hospice has been a leader in demonstrating the effectiveness of morphine and other opiates taken orally. Even people who required injections of morphine in the hospital (the most common way of giving morphine there) will probably be able to be well controlled on oral morphine at home. There are also long-acting preparations of morphine which can be given every twelve hours, or opiate skin patches which can be applied every 72 hours, to simplify the routine of pain control.

Myth #7: People should wait until their pain is bad to take morphine so it will be effective when it’s really needed.

There is no upper dose limit to the use of morphine or other opiates. If pain increases we can increase the dose; this is true of very few other medications. Using it when it’s needed early in the course of a terminal illness does not mean that it won’t continue to work later in the disease.

Morphine, one of the oldest drugs in existence, has found a well-deserved place in the new field of palliative care: the relief of pain and other symptoms. We recommend opiates for pain control only if they are needed. When they are needed, they are often successful in controlling the pain and suffering of terminal illness.

Related Articles:
Pain: What Is It?
How To Relieve Pain Without Medicine
Prescription Pain Relievers
Nonprescription Pain Relievers






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janelle
04-10-2005, 09:18 PM
I agree with the body shutting down naturally but please let the body start the process, do not push it along, do not start it.

I know of people who quit working at hospice cause of this very thing. They couldn't in all good conscience work for them with the rules the way they are. And I am mad at the courts and judges who give the orders.

Also just because one is given orders does not mean they have to do it. Let some other organization do it. Maybe it will be hard to find one that will do it and the judges will be in a quandry---BOOHOO too bad. Let the judges do it themselves. :eek: :rolleyes:

YankeeMary
04-11-2005, 03:45 AM
I agree with the body shutting down naturally but please let the body start the process, do not push it along, do not start it.

I know of people who quit working at hospice cause of this very thing. They couldn't in all good conscience work for them with the rules the way they are. And I am mad at the courts and judges who give the orders.

Also just because one is given orders does not mean they have to do it. Let some other organization do it. Maybe it will be hard to find one that will do it and the judges will be in a quandry---BOOHOO too bad. Let the judges do it themselves. :eek: :rolleyes:
Janelle your passion for keeping people alive forever is very admirable and understandable, but reality sneeks in...these people in hospice or where ever are there because they NEED their jobs and the money they earn while doing their jobs. So for them to continue feeding someone against a court order would not only get them fired but would also end them up in jail. They have to be compassionate people to work in a place like this. Can you imagine going to work everyday and taking care of Granny in bed 6 knowing that you are beginning to love her like the grandmother you never had or the one that passed away and that she will be passing on soon? You are taking care of her so that she may die in peace instead of at home, alone and afraid? These hospice people are special and have something that I could never have. There hearts are unbelivabily huge and their pain must be great.
This poor woman that this post was about...it is a shame that it seems to me that she has a bratty grandaughter. From what I read she just has sight problems but the last incident landed her in the hospital and eventually she will recover, just having the glacoma which can be corrected by surgery? Am I right? If this is the case I hope that the lady's nephew wins and the reinsert the tubes. It is a tragic case.

YNKYH8R
04-11-2005, 06:40 AM
I wonder where the News Crews and protestors are now ??

Good question. Where is that media coverage? Well there would be media coverage if there protestors. Amazing what some people will protest and what some people won’t; especially if there seems to be a real criminal act going on, which there may be.

But even if there were protestors….what would they want us a nation to do?

We’re praying….not much else we can do.
(Jolie isn't there anything you can do since you are the Queen of C & P?)

janelle
04-11-2005, 10:53 AM
I'm not saying or have ever said hospice workers are not caring compassionate people. They are angels but anyone can get caught up in politics. The hospice industry needs to have strict guidelines for their workers. Hospice needs to be the leaders on end of life issues and when it's time to help a person die comfortably and when it's time to help them live.

If the granddaughter is saying her grandmother wouldn't want to live this way they need to ask what way. Cause she is old? She does not have a terminal illness.

I see hospice's drawback is in it's policy to help people die and they can do nothing else. If the person is not terminal then they have no business being in a hospice. I'm not a stranger to this. My FIL died last year and he had hospice. They gave him morphine to keep him comfortable but I hope they didn't everdose him. Their job is to keep the patient comfortable and that is all not to hurry the process along. The family and the patient deserve the last months to be together for everyone's mental health. The living do not want to feel like they had a hand in killing their love one. Hospice is suppose to be sensitive to this issue, not to cause more harm. They say they are there to help the whole family. Please do not leave the family worse off and needing help to deal with quilt after their loved one dies.

YankeeMary
04-11-2005, 03:53 PM
I'm not saying or have ever said hospice workers are not caring compassionate people. They are angels but anyone can get caught up in politics. The hospice industry needs to have strict guidelines for their workers. Hospice needs to be the leaders on end of life issues and when it's time to help a person die comfortably and when it's time to help them live.

If the granddaughter is saying her grandmother wouldn't want to live this way they need to ask what way. Cause she is old? She does not have a terminal illness.

I see hospice's drawback is in it's policy to help people die and they can do nothing else. If the person is not terminal then they have no business being in a hospice. I'm not a stranger to this. My FIL died last year and he had hospice. They gave him morphine to keep him comfortable but I hope they didn't everdose him. Their job is to keep the patient comfortable and that is all not to hurry the process along. The family and the patient deserve the last months to be together for everyone's mental health. The living do not want to feel like they had a hand in killing their love one. Hospice is suppose to be sensitive to this issue, not to cause more harm. They say they are there to help the whole family. Please do not leave the family worse off and needing help to deal with quilt after their loved one dies.
The reason people are placed in hospice is to die. Thats is the only reason they are there (the hospice). If people place their family members in there prematurly (SP) it is not up to the hospice to step in and go against court order, THAT ISN'T THEIR JOBS! I truly feel this little old woman has been placed in hospice prematurly and thats why her other family members have stepped in. The hospice has no part in it what so ever, except to make the patient comfortable until their last breath. All the legalities are up to the courts and families. Hospice workers have enough to deal with, without having to play judge and jury for the world. I think the hospice workers need more support opposed to working against them.

janelle
04-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Court ordered pulling of feeding tubes is a little dicy anyway. I would have no dealings with it.

There is another person on here whose mother died in a hospice and during her last hours they took her pillows away which she always needed to lay flat comfortably. This person, her daughter, had to watch her mother gasp for air for a half hour until she died. She said she felt like she had pushed her mother off a cliff. That is just not right.

The doc my hubby works for said that is oxygen starvatioin. Why not just put a pillow over her face and get it over---no don't answer that people!!!!!!!!!!!!
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From the article-----


Ron Panzer, president and founder of Hospice Patients Alliance, a patients' rights advocacy group based in Michigan, told WND that what is happening to Magouirk is not at all unusual.

"This is happening in hospices all over the country," he said. "Patients who are not dying – are not terminal – are admitted [to hospice] and the hospice will say they are terminally ill even if they're not. There are thousands of cases like this. Patients are given morphine and ativan to sedate them. If feeding is withheld, they die within 10 days to two weeks. It's really just a form of euthanasia."

YankeeMary
04-12-2005, 02:29 AM
Death is not the easiest thing to watch you know, even if it is a completely "natural" death. If you (in general) can't handle or accept the death of a loved one in this manner, then may I suggest not placing your loved one in hospice, instead keep them at home and take care of them there, their passing will be no easier, I am sure. Seems someone (not just you Janelle and not just this issue) is always trying to tell people what is wrong and how to do things. Very aggravating that the land of the free is becoming land of do what I say, gets old fast.

nightrider127
04-12-2005, 02:39 AM
and the hospice will say they are terminally ill even if they're not. There are thousands of cases like this. Patients are given morphine and ativan to sedate them. If feeding is withheld, they die within 10 days to two weeks. It's really just a form of euthanasia."

Oh yes it is unusual. Around here, they wont move you to a hospice until you have 6 months or less left to live. I don't know where this guy got his info. I have never heard of putting a non moribound patient in a hospice. It takes a doctor to say that you are terminal. Otherwise, you don't get into the hospice

Njean31
04-12-2005, 02:47 AM
There is another person on here whose mother died in a hospice and during her last hours they took her pillows away which she always needed to lay flat comfortably. This person, her daughter, had to watch her mother gasp for air for a half hour until she died. She said she felt like she had pushed her mother off a cliff. That is just not right.

The doc my hubby works for said that is oxygen starvatioin. Why not just put a pillow over her face and get it over---no don't answer that people!!!!!!!!!!!!
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oxygen starvation or (air hunger as we call it) is not something that can be avoided in certain disease processes such as lung cancer or COPD. what we do is give oxygen and certain drugs to help alleviate the symptoms. anyone experiencing it would not be comfortable lying flat. i don't understand your statement about putting a pillow over her face and get it over with. hospice did not create her air hunger. hospice is not a miracle organization. i am saddened that you are so turned off by something I think helps so many people. sometimes though, family members who can't deal with the death properly and go through the grieving stages NEED to blame someone so it is understandably the one's taking care of the individual in the final hours. and i also understand like i said before that there may be bad apples in every field.

nightrider127
04-12-2005, 03:01 AM
NJean, I just want to say thank God for compassionate people like you and other hospice personel. My uncle just passed away and the help my aunt received from them was absolutely incrediable. I have had an aunt and an uncle die with hopice in attendance. My aunt was in a facility and my uncle was at home. After my uncle died, the councellor who came out to my aunts even took the time to talk to me when she found out that I had just lost my sweet Daddy just a little over a year ago. She wanted to know how I was coping with the situation. I can't say enough good things about her or the hospice nurse who took care of my uncle.

My aunt died at a hospice facility. They were great. We were free to visit my aunt at any time. The even let one of her sons bring her little dog in to see her because my aunt wanted to see Lady so bad. My aunt never had any more pain once she got to hospice. She had lung cancer that had spread into several different parts of her body and had been in terrible pain till she got to the hospice facitlity. We as her family was so grateful not to have to see her in pain any longer.

It takes very special people to go into caring for the terminally ill. Thank you and other caring professionals who do this job.

Njean31
04-12-2005, 03:07 AM
Ron Panzer, president and founder of Hospice Patients Alliance, a patients' rights advocacy group based in Michigan, told WND that what is happening to Magouirk is not at all unusual.

"This is happening in hospices all over the country," he said. "Patients who are not dying – are not terminal – are admitted [to hospice] and the hospice will say they are terminally ill even if they're not. There are thousands of cases like this. Patients are given morphine and ativan to sedate them. If feeding is withheld, they die within 10 days to two weeks. It's really just a form of euthanasia."




exactly what is he trying to say? that hospice is admitting patients who are not terminally ill just to kill them? that makes no sense. what benefit would the hospice actually get out of this? NONE....it is simple. living people = payment, dead people = 0 dollars.

Njean31
04-12-2005, 03:10 AM
NJean, I just want to say thank God for compassionate people like you and other hospice personel. My uncle just passed away and the help my aunt received from them was absolutely incrediable. I have had an aunt and an uncle die with hopice in attendance. My aunt was in a facility and my uncle was at home. After my uncle died, the councellor who came out to my aunts even took the time to talk to me when she found out that I had just lost my sweet Daddy just a little over a year ago. She wanted to know how I was coping with the situation. I can't say enough good things about her or the hospice nurse who took care of my uncle.

My aunt died at a hospice facility. They were great. We were free to visit my aunt at any time. The even let one of her sons bring her little dog in to see her because my aunt wanted to see Lady so bad. My aunt never had any more pain once she got to hospice. She had lung cancer that had spread into several different parts of her body and had been in terrible pain till she got to the hospice facitlity. We as her family was so grateful not to have to see her in pain any longer.

It takes very special people to go into caring for the terminally ill. Thank you and other caring professionals who do this job.


thank you. i'm glad your relatives found comfort with hospice.

janelle
04-12-2005, 12:03 PM
exactly what is he trying to say? that hospice is admitting patients who are not terminally ill just to kill them? that makes no sense. what benefit would the hospice actually get out of this? NONE....it is simple. living people = payment, dead people = 0 dollars.

Then why did my hospice manager tell me that people have 10 days to die once they take a case and if they are still living after that time they have to leave?
I like them but I do not like some of their rules.

Njean31
04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
Then why did my hospice manager tell me that people have 10 days to die once they take a case and if they are still living after that time they have to leave?
I like them but I do not like some of their rules.

that must be a different kind of hospice because at mine and most, to be admitted the person has to have a disease most likely will end their life within 6 months to a year. we've had patients to live 2 years though. we are a visiting hospice under a major hospital in the capital of SC. the patients live at home, we visit. we provide medical equipment, nurses, nurses aids, social workers, volunteers and chaplains. maybe that's the difference. teri shaivo sure lived past 10 days in her hospice.

janelle
04-12-2005, 12:46 PM
I had hospice and they helped a lot but when it came time to talk about end of life maters they put it on the line for me. when a person is terminal and the last days are near they will come in 24/7 to help but if in that time the patient starts to get better---and by the way they do nothig to help them get better, at that point it's not their job to help them get better---they have to leave. In one case she had the woman rallied, they were instructed to leave and the woman died alone with her family. No help from hospice.

It was just cases like this one that I think made her leave. I could tell she was upset about that rule. Maybe you have not been caught up in their beaurocrucy(sp) yet and I hope you never will.

Njean31
04-12-2005, 01:13 PM
I had hospice and they helped a lot but when it came time to talk about end of life maters they put it on the line for me. when a person is terminal and the last days are near they will come in 24/7 to help but if in that time the patient starts to get better---and by the way they do nothig to help them get better, at that point it's not their job to help them get better---they have to leave. In one case she had the woman rallied, they were instructed to leave and the woman died alone with her family. No help from hospice.

It was just cases like this one that I think made her leave. I could tell she was upset about that rule. Maybe you have not been caught up in their beaurocrucy(sp) yet and I hope you never will.

our patients often time do "rally" but we don't leave, it's part of the process for some and we recognize this. and no, hospice does not help a person "get better" because we don't take them until there is no getting better. they are terminal and are going to die within 6 months to a year unless God performs a miracle.

janelle
04-13-2005, 10:04 AM
Miracles happen but I don't want this to become a religious discussion. Guess the hospice in my area is more strict than your area or they are not as educated. The patient rallied which this woman says happens sometimes before death and they were told to leave. I think she was fed up after that and quit.