State of the union address....

[faygokraze]

Just my opinion.....

But now it seems bush seems to be focusing on social security. Well Im 23 yrs old. By the time I retire there will be nothing left but I pay in now!!

Bush's plan would cut guaranteed retirement benefits for younger Americans but would not affect checks for people now 55 and older.

IMO...So now the younger generation is taking a cut!

A variety of solutions have been proposed over the years, such as limiting benefits for wealthy retirees, raising the retirement age, indexing benefits to prices rather than wages, discouraging early collection of Social Security benefits and changing the ways benefits are calculated, Bush said.

IMO...Well how old do we have to be to collect our fair share?? 100?

All I have to say about mr. president is What the heck have you been doing in office for the past 4 years??? Should of thought of these great ideas 4 years ago instead of golfing!!!!

[twinkiesmom]

or looking for someone to declare war on. The SS plan to be able to put into your own acct sounds cool, but there's a catch somewhere. I wanna know where.

[sahmsfreeb]

the last 4 years he was a bit busy...lol...

as for SS... i knew 20 yrs ago i wouldn have it when i retire...hence my planning for the future...


i dont want my government supporting me...and SS is not a bank account...

[faygokraze]

the last 4 years he was a bit busy...lol...

as for SS... i knew 20 yrs ago i wouldn have it when i retire...hence my planning for the future...


i dont want my government supporting me...and SS is not a bank account...


I agree that you cant ONLY rely on SS for retirement but you should be able to get back what you have paid in!

[YankeeMary]

the last 4 years he was a bit busy...lol...

as for SS... i knew 20 yrs ago i wouldn have it when i retire...hence my planning for the future...


i dont want my government supporting me...and SS is not a bank account...
No it isn't a bank account, but it is OURS! If you pay into it that makes it yours. Our Government isn't supporting our elders, they paid into it. The Government has used Social Security intrest free, seems like a bank to me.

[sahmsfreeb]

I agree that you cant ONLY rely on SS for retirement but you should be able to get back what you have paid in!


i like to compare SS to school taxes... when i think about it...lol..
ya pay in when you dont need or want it... but eventually you will use it... and you dont get a choice whether or not you want to pay into it! lol...



i like the idea of my money being mine... :p

[YankeeMary]

Well Bush is now asking Congress for $350 MILLION dollars to support Isreal. Hmmm...what about our young people that won't have social security? Why not ask Congress for $350 MILLION to go to social security?

[LuvBigRip]

This generation does support the older generations. Most retired people draw far more than they ever paid into SS. If you even take the highest 30 year bond rate, the interest is nothing.

[faygokraze]

Well Bush is now asking Congress for $350 MILLION dollars to support Isreal. Hmmm...what about our young people that won't have social security? Why not ask Congress for $350 MILLION to go to social security?

WELL SAID!!! Lets focus on the USA, BUSH!!! He must still be lost in drilling for oil or something!!

[YankeeMary]

WELL SAID!!! Lets focus on the USA, BUSH!!! He must still be lost in drilling for oil or something!!
Just for the record, I would feel this way if a Democrate was standing up there tonight.

[gal3m]

I say we keep OUR money in OUR country and stop supporting the rest of the freaking world! Bush is not the only one that has done this. All the presidents who preceded him have given millions upon millions to other countries. No wonder we don't have money for social security!

[twinkiesmom]

I was in the other room when I heard he wanted to ask for another 30M for Palestine or Isreal or wtf, and I thought the same thing. Why not put that 30M in the SS fund for our ppl vs to someone who would not be paying back anyway. Yeah, I'm hot. And I'm w/Mary on this . . . . if it was a Democrat at the podium saying that, I would still feel the same as I do now.

I think we need to keep our money here, and our troops here also. Bring our men home . . . .

[nightrider127]

I was in the other room when I heard he wanted to ask for another 30M for Palestine or Isreal or wtf, and I thought the same thing. Why not put that 30M in the SS fund for our ppl vs to someone who would not be paying back anyway. Yeah, I'm hot. And I'm w/Mary on this . . . . if it was a Democrat at the podium saying that, I would still feel the same as I do now.

I think we need to keep our money here, and our troops here also. Bring our men home . . . .

Thank you. Well said. Matter of fact, very well said.

I am tired of us being the welfare department for the world.

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

Thank you. Well said. Matter of fact, very well said.

I am tired of us being the welfare department for the world.


I agree with your last comment.Look at all the poor we have here,not to mention run down cities,drugs,homeless I could go on and on.

[schsa]

We do pay enough in taxes to support ourselves, those in need, to feed everyone in our nation and provide basic services to everyone. However, somewhere along the line it became our responsibility to support the rest of the world in one way or another.

As for Social Security, with the Baby Boomers starting to retire there will be more people drawing from SS than ever. Again, if Bush were not digging into it to pay for his war, there would be enough but he is going to put us trillions of dollars in debt and the easiest place to pull money from to support his war is Social Security. You had better hope that it ends soon or there won't be any Social Security left.

[Freebeemom]

Well, instead of writing your comments on a board that will never be read, you need to start writing to your local officials. This is where it gets noticed the most, if even that. If anything, all of us bbsers need to get a bus and go protest this, or even better, find ourselves a PAC that will support us!

I am with you all...where is our money? But I also know that this is a local level decision...we need to start electing our local officials WISELY!!

[SmucknFart]

Well Bush is now asking Congress for $350 MILLION dollars to support Isreal. Hmmm...what about our young people that won't have social security? Why not ask Congress for $350 MILLION to go to social security?

AMEN! What Bush doesn't tell you is his new proposed program is a gamble...it's more like a stock option. Our government should be putting money into our social security instead of sending it overseas all the time. I have been paying into social security for 18 years now. Now I'm being told I will have to start all over. It's a bunch of BS if you ask me.

[buglebe]

I'm just curious. Where are all the Bush supporters? I cried when Bush was reelected. I am still crying. But where are all the people who voted for him?

[stresseater]

We are wisely sitting back and waiting for the specifics before we decide if it is a good plan or not. :rolleyes: since this plan is to be modeled after a plan that is already in existance and working quite nicely for government employees. I would think someone who was interested in fixing problems would do the same.....guess not. ;) :D

[Willow]

I'm just curious. Where are all the Bush supporters? I cried when Bush was reelected. I am still crying. But where are all the people who voted for him?


They are busy trying to figure out why they voted for him. :D

[JCshopper]

I Voted for him. I know why I voted for him. I do not choose to discuss it in this forum. Something needs to happen with the social security system and they better get to it now. I haven't heard any great suggestions from the left side of the aisle.... oh but Teddy boy would like to raise your taxes to "fix" it. How much more of your income are you willing to give?

[Poncer]

Just my opinion.....

But now it seems bush seems to be focusing on social security. Well Im 23 yrs old. By the time I retire there will be nothing left but I pay in now!!

Bush's plan would cut guaranteed retirement benefits for younger Americans but would not affect checks for people now 55 and older.

IMO...So now the younger generation is taking a cut!

A variety of solutions have been proposed over the years, such as limiting benefits for wealthy retirees, raising the retirement age, indexing benefits to prices rather than wages, discouraging early collection of Social Security benefits and changing the ways benefits are calculated, Bush said.

IMO...Well how old do we have to be to collect our fair share?? 100?

All I have to say about mr. president is What the heck have you been doing in office for the past 4 years??? Should of thought of these great ideas 4 years ago instead of golfing!!!!


You know where the money went for the SS? Our leaders invaded it to spend on wars and so forth. The SS was not created for our leaders to waste on their projects.

Also Bush wants us to use the money to invest in stocks and all that. That is not safe. You will lose that money if you happened to buy stocks in a company, and that company turned into an Enron. Say bye bye retirement money for the future.

I rather want the leaders stop spending our SS retirement money on their worthless projects, and that the money would not disappear.

[Poncer]

I agree with your last comment.Look at all the poor we have here,not to mention run down cities,drugs,homeless I could go on and on.

For me being disabled, and hard to find a job. I still living with my parents. My dad had a stroke, and had to retire early. He is now 63, and the only income that is coming into my household is my dad's SS each month. It is hard to pay the bills each month, plus getting food in the house. I am at the lower level as being poor, and I agree that people like me and others need some more help.

[Poncer]

We are wisely sitting back and waiting for the specifics before we decide if it is a good plan or not. :rolleyes: since this plan is to be modeled after a plan that is already in existance and working quite nicely for government employees. I would think someone who was interested in fixing problems would do the same.....guess not. ;) :D


It does not work. My dad used to work as a custodean for a local school, and he was put on a teachers insurance program. The money that were taken out of the paychecks for the insurance was invested in the stock market. You know what stock it was invested in? Enron
A lot of teachers and others who worked for the school districts in the state of Arkansas lost a lot of money.

[Poncer]

I Voted for him. I know why I voted for him. I do not choose to discuss it in this forum. Something needs to happen with the social security system and they better get to it now. I haven't heard any great suggestions from the left side of the aisle.... oh but Teddy boy would like to raise your taxes to "fix" it. How much more of your income are you willing to give?


Medicare and Medicade is in more trouble than SS right now.

[Sha]

You know I just think republican or democrat....The government is totally corrupt and we are all paying the price.

[LoveBugg]

I just would like to know where all that money of mine is that I have been paying towards "My" SS went? I have been paying towards it since I was 16... Now I am 24 and they are going to say that my thousands I have paid towards it are going to be gone when I retire?? I think not...


More or less, I think we should get a refund.. Honestly if you put money towards something and not get it.. I thought that was called Services not rendered???

Thats JMO tho..

So I guess I will just go get my own savings account, for my own retirement. I dont want any government watching over my account with this so called "Self invested" mumbo jumbo. They would probably find another way to take it from us.

[faygokraze]

I just would like to know where all that money of mine is that I have been paying towards "My" SS went? I have been paying towards it since I was 16... Now I am 24 and they are going to say that my thousands I have paid towards it are going to be gone when I retire?? I think not...


More or less, I think we should get a refund.. Honestly if you put money towards something and not get it.. I thought that was called Services not rendered???

Thats JMO tho..

So I guess I will just go get my own savings account, for my own retirement. I dont want any government watching over my account with this so called "Self invested" mumbo jumbo. They would probably find another way to take it from us.


exactly!!!!

All the bush supporters must be in florida. LOL

[SmucknFart]

I just would like to know where all that money of mine is that I have been paying towards "My" SS went? I have been paying towards it since I was 16... Now I am 24 and they are going to say that my thousands I have paid towards it are going to be gone when I retire?


Exactly. I'm 34,(35 in March), and have been paying since I was 16. I think we should get everything we put in back if this ridiculous plan goes through. :mad: I'll decide where to invest my own money, thank you! :D

[llbriteyes]

All I have to say... almost all... is "Thank you George."

My husband lost his job to outsourcing in January. His unemployment pay is a full ONE THIRD of what he got working. No insurance. Nothing. He's too young to retire. He got one week pay for each year worked as severance. The government taxed the heck out of it. They took 25% off the top. What the heck kind of deal is that!!!!

Also, and this ticks me off more than ANYTHING... Kellogg's (yeah, the cereal company) opened a new plant a few years ago in another town in Ohio. They got really great tax breaks for creating jobs. At the same time, they started shut down procedures in Columbus... STILL receiving the tax breaks for "creating jobs." They outsourced more than 300 in Columbus, but STILL get that break? Give ME a break!

Here's another aspect of our wonderful government. We had a 401(K) plan there. We have a lot of money in it. IF we took it out (instead of rolling it over), they'd take 20% off the top, and then 10% for the early withdraw penalty.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??????

We have done everything we were supposed to in this country of ours. We worked toward the American dream. We pay our taxes. We don't break the law. I'm disgusted with this whole republican *party.*

Thanks George.

Linda

[llbriteyes]

Just for the record, I would feel this way if a Democrate was standing up there tonight.


Me too.

L

[llbriteyes]

I say we keep OUR money in OUR country and stop supporting the rest of the freaking world! Bush is not the only one that has done this. All the presidents who preceded him have given millions upon millions to other countries. No wonder we don't have money for social security!


Contact your local congressman and ask from what countries (yes... countries) we're borrowing OUR money from. Seems like if we can't pay our bills, we shouldn't be paying anyone elses!

Linda

[llbriteyes]

Well, instead of writing your comments on a board that will never be read, you need to start writing to your local officials. This is where it gets noticed the most, if even that. If anything, all of us bbsers need to get a bus and go protest this, or even better, find ourselves a PAC that will support us!

I am with you all...where is our money? But I also know that this is a local level decision...we need to start electing our local officials WISELY!!

I agree that we need to be making our voices heard. We are. There are so many groups out there, some I belong to, but do you know what we get when we write congressmen? IF we get replies, we get canned responses. I can't tell you the amount of them I have.

We need new officials, and I won't go into the why's of why we didn't get them this last go round. What can we do? VOTE.

Linda

[llbriteyes]

I'm just curious. Where are all the Bush supporters? I cried when Bush was reelected. I am still crying. But where are all the people who voted for him?

This is MY opinion.... if I upset people or get banned, I'm sorry.

We no longer live in a democracy. We live in a THEOCRACY. The religious right runs this country. Bush is a figurehead. It is the EXTREME religious *wrong* who run this country. I thought Christians were supposed to CARE about their fellow man, not their fellow money. They want to tell me what to do with my body and my thoughts. They want to tell me WHAT I can do. What I can watch. They're into burning books. I rejoiced (good choice of words) when Michael Powell left.

Freedom for everyone, what America was BUILT on, is now "freedom of whatever I tell you you can have."

If I don't believe God, not just A god, but THE God, I have no morals. No values. That's crap.

Ok... that's my say for now. If I'm banned, let me know.

Linda

[llbriteyes]

We are wisely sitting back and waiting for the specifics before we decide if it is a good plan or not. :rolleyes: since this plan is to be modeled after a plan that is already in existance and working quite nicely for government employees. I would think someone who was interested in fixing problems would do the same.....guess not. ;) :D

We're watching. We just don't like what we see.

[llbriteyes]

I Voted for him. I know why I voted for him. I do not choose to discuss it in this forum. Something needs to happen with the social security system and they better get to it now. I haven't heard any great suggestions from the left side of the aisle.... oh but Teddy boy would like to raise your taxes to "fix" it. How much more of your income are you willing to give?

How much are you willing to allow the government to get away with? How much are you willing to allow the government to borrow from foreign entities? I was told when I was in high school that there wouldn't be any SS left when it was my turn. That was wrong. There will be. I'm 42.

Yes... you are right that something needs to be done. It isn't as urgent as the president would have you believe. If you want to see the *left* version, simply go looking online for it. Its there if you would only choose to look.

Linda

[JCshopper]

I have looked, I don't like what I see ( from the left). And I'd rather have someone leading this country that feels he has a higher being to answer to when he dies than one who doesn't. I, for one, am tired of the leftist agenda. What's the matter with some good old fashioned values. As far as I'm concerned the U.S. is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Don't send any money overseas for anything because we need it here? OOH, then we're penny pinching, heartless animals! Case in point, Tsunami Victims and Aids in Africa. Should we sit by and say "Gee, that's too bad... but sorry, don't look to us for help"? The same people -itching about spending money overseas are the same people who were just complaining we weren't doing enough to help in Africa and South Asia. Which is it? The bottom line is George Bush will never do anything right in the eyes of the left. We, that voted for him know that. Do you really think more than half of the people who voted in this country just said oops I made a mistake, I don't like him anymore? We're not that shallow. You won't convince me, I won't convince you... but don't presume to know what Bush voters think.

[llbriteyes]

I'll make this as sensitive as I can. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, or give the idea that your ideas may be wrong (in my eyes). This is just how I feel...

You said: "And I'd rather have someone leading this country that feels he has a higher being to answer to when he dies than one who doesn't. I, for one, am tired of the leftist agenda. What's the matter with some good old fashioned values."

I reply: Why is it that if you are toward the left, you are deemed with lack of values? Since when does Christianity have the corner on it? I want to know why I have to comply with *someone elses* view on values. You imply that if you aren't Christian, you don't have values. What if Leiberman were president. He's Jewish. What if he outlawed Christmas? What if he said you can only watch Jewish programs on TV. Jewish books. Teach the Jewish Laws in school? What about Buddists? What about Muslims? What about Athiests? The Christian Right (wrong) is the closest these United States has come to communism ever.

You said: "Don't send any money overseas for anything because we need it here? OOH, then we're penny pinching, heartless animals! Case in point, Tsunami Victims and Aids in Africa. Should we sit by and say "Gee, that's too bad... but sorry, don't look to us for help"? The same people -itching about spending money overseas are the same people who were just complaining we weren't doing enough to help in Africa and South Asia. Which is it?"

I reply: If Pastor Bush didn't get rid of that surplus left by Clinton immediately upon is first term in office, we would have had plenty for both. Social Security was being shored up with the dividends from that surplus. Pastor Bush has not only depleted completely that surplus, he's trying to destroy Social Security as we know it. Does anyone care that OUR government, the greatest country in this world is indebted to Japan???? Japan OWNS us. Thanks George.

You said: "The bottom line is George Bush will never do anything right in the eyes of the left. We, that voted for him know that. "

I reply: Just as you have written here for us to not presume to know what Bush voters think, don't presume to know that the above statement is true. You are presuming that the left believes ONLY this way. Bush HAS done some things right. I can't think of any right now, but the odds are, eventually he will/has.

I hope this doesn't offend. That was not my purpose. My purpose was just to state my views.

Linda

[buglebe]

I'll make this as sensitive as I can. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, or give the idea that your ideas may be wrong (in my eyes). This is just how I feel...

You said: "And I'd rather have someone leading this country that feels he has a higher being to answer to when he dies than one who doesn't. I, for one, am tired of the leftist agenda. What's the matter with some good old fashioned values."

I reply: Why is it that if you are toward the left, you are deemed with lack of values? Since when does Christianity have the corner on it? I want to know why I have to comply with *someone elses* view on values. You imply that if you aren't Christian, you don't have values. What if Leiberman were president. He's Jewish. What if he outlawed Christmas? What if he said you can only watch Jewish programs on TV. Jewish books. Teach the Jewish Laws in school? What about Buddists? What about Muslims? What about Athiests? The Christian Right (wrong) is the closest these United States has come to communism ever.

You said: "Don't send any money overseas for anything because we need it here? OOH, then we're penny pinching, heartless animals! Case in point, Tsunami Victims and Aids in Africa. Should we sit by and say "Gee, that's too bad... but sorry, don't look to us for help"? The same people -itching about spending money overseas are the same people who were just complaining we weren't doing enough to help in Africa and South Asia. Which is it?"

I reply: If Pastor Bush didn't get rid of that surplus left by Clinton immediately upon is first term in office, we would have had plenty for both. Social Security was being shored up with the dividends from that surplus. Pastor Bush has not only depleted completely that surplus, he's trying to destroy Social Security as we know it. Does anyone care that OUR government, the greatest country in this world is indebted to Japan???? Japan OWNS us. Thanks George.

You said: "The bottom line is George Bush will never do anything right in the eyes of the left. We, that voted for him know that. "

I reply: Just as you have written here for us to not presume to know what Bush voters think, don't presume to know that the above statement is true. You are presuming that the left believes ONLY this way. Bush HAS done some things right. I can't think of any right now, but the odds are, eventually he will/has.

I hope this doesn't offend. That was not my purpose. My purpose was just to state my views.

Linda

Linda, I totally agree with every word you said and you did it in such a polite and intelligent manner. Thank you for saying exactly how I feel. I could have never put it in words like this. Fantastic expression of my thoughts too.

[llbriteyes]

Linda, I totally agree with every word you said and you did it in such a polite and intelligent manner. Thank you for saying exactly how I feel. I could have never put it in words like this. Fantastic expression of my thoughts too.

Thank you. I'm very passionate about all that.

Linda

[JCshopper]

If you had noticed I used the expression "higher being" not God or Jesus or Allah, or Jehovah ... A sense that you will be held responsible for your actions. Whether that be Karma or reward or punishment beyond this life. And I think if you check your facts you will find Mr. and Mrs. Clinton left us with a "surplus" because of all of the damage they did to our Country's defenses. Find out how much they cut all branches of the service and how many Helicopters, ships, and other much needed support they took out of commision. President Bush is not trying to push his GOD on anyone. I think Mr. Bush respects people of all faiths. But, yes, some of the values need to be pushed. I am not a church attending Christian, though I was raised one, but I have my own conglomerate of beliefs all based on respect and that one way or another I will be held responsible for my wrongdoings. I do think though that you comparing Christian Religion (Right) to communism is crossing the line. Leftist ideals are much closer to communism or socialism. Everywhere you look there is someone attacking Christians. Politics and religion ... two subjects that are far too time consuming to address in this manner. Too much room for misunderstanding and hard feelings. I bet you we would probably agree on a great many things. Just not these. Have a great day ;)

[llbriteyes]

Yes, you used the the expression "higher being." That's fine. It doesn't address the "non-believers," or atheists, who are just as much American as you or I. Not everyone believes in a "higher being." That does not make them immoral. This America is theirs too.

If you check your facts you will find that Military cuts are known as "peace dividends," after the great President Ronald Regan's defeat of communism. It started on Bush 41's watch. Not the Clintons. It seems that every time a negative is mentioned regarding the government as a whole, it is former President Clinton who takes the brunt of the attacks.

It is the Christian Right (wrong) who are trying to legislate THEIR beliefs into law. Pastor Bush is simply a figurehead. From Senators from Indiana to Congressmen from North Carolina, their sole purpose is to legislate morality, ie *Christian* morality, which is EXACTLY what our founding fathers did NOT have in mind. As far as "some of the values" needing to be pushed (your words, not mine), I don't want them pushed on me. WHO decides what values everyone MUST follow? I don't want Pastor Bush's values *pushed* on me. I don't want Jerry Falwell's values *pushed* on me. I don't want Jesse Jackson's values *pushed* on me. I don't want religious *values* made into law. I do believe one should be held responsible for their actions. What IS right and wrong (ie murder, theft, rape)... not what people may *consider* right and wrong (homosexuality, abortion, stem cell research). Your right to believe what you want is fine. It is when it comes to MY door that that right ends.

Comparing Christianity to communism probably isn't a good comparison technically. However, according to religious tenet, if you don't do *this* or *that* you will be punished severely (usually by the fires of hell). I don't believe in hell. Also, in most organized religions, you're required to go out and "spread the word." Things must be done a certain way,or you are wrong. And yes... I'm against extreme left as well.

Right wing Christians are under attack recently *because* of the pushing they are trying in our public schools (ie creationism, lack of sex educaton, or wrong sex education). There are many reasons religion is being attacked. They need to look at what they're trying to push on *everyone* who don't believe as they do. Take the recent Spongebob Squarepants issue. lol Teletubby? I cannot believe that *christians* actually *look* for homosexuality on CARTOON characters. When religous leaders start doing this, it makes them look silly, and they get attacked. Many us believe the government needs to PROTECT us from religion. It would be a shame to bring out the Bill Of Rights to protect the minority from the Christian majority.

Politics and religion... they are two very deep subjects. I think they *can* be discussed openly and honestly on a public forum. As long as we aren't attacking each other, and state just what we believe, we'll be fine. :) I'm sure we would believe a lot of the same things as well. I was raised a Christian, and believe it or not, have a deep and abiding faith in Jesus Christ. I do NOT however, believe it is right to force the subject on others. Especially through government.

I think this thread has been educational and helpful without infringing on each other's beliefs. Sometimes, we can live our lives in our own little world, and forget about the diversity out there.

I have enjoyed this debate, and hope it can continue as peacefully as we can make it, and that the moderators don't shut us down! lol ;)

Linda