Police: Woman Allegedly Cuts Arms Off Baby

[justme23]

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/3939914/detail.html

Police: Woman Allegedly Cuts Arms Off Baby
Infant Dies On Way To Hospital
Bill Young, News Editor

POSTED: 1:22 pm CST November 22, 2004
UPDATED: 4:12 pm CST November 22, 2004

DALLAS -- Plano police have arrested a woman accused of allegedly cutting the arms off her 11-month-old baby girl, and have charged her with capital murder.

[YYounghouse]

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/3939914/detail.html

Police: Woman Allegedly Cuts Arms Off Baby
Infant Dies On Way To Hospital
Bill Young, News Editor

POSTED: 1:22 pm CST November 22, 2004
UPDATED: 4:12 pm CST November 22, 2004

DALLAS -- Plano police have arrested a woman accused of allegedly cutting the arms off her 11-month-old baby girl, and have charged her with capital murder.


It is a world gone mad.
sigh.

[Tippytail]

This is no more that 3 miles from my house.

The woman is the mother of three girls, the other two where in school and dad was at work. They said the woman was on record as suffering from post partum.

The baby was alive when authorities first got there, while the woman was subdued and sitting on the couch with blood all over her.

They won't say who called 9-1-1 but that comments made by the woman they say there is no question on who did it or what happened.

[MamaFairal]

It is a world gone mad.


I heard dat :(

[justme23]

If you click on the link... it says she called 911.

[bribella]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just can't believe the things that people will do to their own flesh and blood. I may get flamed for this but I am tired of mothers doing horrendous things to their children and then they blame it on post partum. Give me a damn break. This woman was obviously so disturbed that it had to be noticed by someone especially her husband. I realize that there is such a thing as postpartum depression but to cut your OWN BABY'S ARMS OFF!????????? I must go cry for that poor little baby now.

[adorkablex]

This is no more that 3 miles from my house.

The woman is the mother of three girls, the other two where in school and dad was at work. They said the woman was on record as suffering from post partum.

The baby was alive when authorities first got there, while the woman was subdued and sitting on the couch with blood all over her.

They won't say who called 9-1-1 but that comments made by the woman they say there is no question on who did it or what happened.


I don't care what the witch was suffering from... no excuse to do what she did.

[Tasha405]

OMG! That is just horrible! :( :mad:

[laughsalot]

"Despite outward appearances, police and child welfare investigators said they had been to the home before."

I copied that from the link! OMG! WTF? All that keeps going through my mind is how in the world could she have done that? What on earth was she thinking? I am shocked.:(

[bribella]

There seems to be a lot of things like this going on around the country. In a city not too far away from me there is a woman who had 3 kids~ 2,16 months and 6wks old.
Apparently she was passed out drunk all the time and the 2 youngest starved to death and the oldest child was close to it by the time they found them.
And they are saying she had post partum deppression. The saddest thing about that is there was food in the house, CPS had had complaints about the childrens welfare but didn't think that the kids were in danger. WTH?!!!!! When they found the kids the mother BAC was supposedly like .40 more than 4x's the legal limit here in WA. And here poor poor children had been dead for about 1 week in the apt with the mother and older child.

[KATinKY]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just can't believe the things that people will do to their own flesh and blood. I may get flamed for this but I am tired of mothers doing horrendous things to their children and then they blame it on post partum. Give me a damn break. This woman was obviously so disturbed that it had to be noticed by someone especially her husband. I realize that there is such a thing as postpartum depression but to cut your OWN BABY'S ARMS OFF!????????? I must go cry for that poor little baby now.


Could not have said it better. I totally agree.

[schsa]

I don't know why everyone acts so surprised. We do not value our children in this society. And we do not take mental illness seriously but instead give it a stigma and an outrageous cost to get help.

People do all sorts of things to their children and it seems as if no one is able to intervene before the worst happens. CPS is understaffed and we let anyone have children without offering long term support to families. Have a baby and leave the hospital.

[queenangie]

Makes me sick.
That mother definitely has a mental illness.

[Angelseyes28]

I don't know why everyone acts so surprised. We do not value our children in this society. And we do not take mental illness seriously but instead give it a stigma and an outrageous cost to get help.


First of all your opinion is just that YOUR opinion. Do not group everyone into the whole "we" assumption you are making. YOU might not value your children but I assure you, I value my children very much. I suffered from postpartum after my son was born but never ONCE did I, nor would I, ever even dream of harming my children. My kids are my whole world. I take mental illness very seriously but I'm sorry the whole "postpartum" excuse is a bunch of crap.

[starlynn]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just can't believe the things that people will do to their own flesh and blood. I may get flamed for this but I am tired of mothers doing horrendous things to their children and then they blame it on post partum. Give me a damn break. This woman was obviously so disturbed that it had to be noticed by someone especially her husband. I realize that there is such a thing as postpartum depression but to cut your OWN BABY'S ARMS OFF!????????? I must go cry for that poor little baby now.

I hate hearing about mothers like this. I can't believe that the she has postpardum depression after 11 months with- out her doctor or her baby's doctor, let alone her husband knowing.

[Njean31]

postpartum depression can involve episodes of psychosis. when people are psychotic, they do not understand the difference between reality and fantasy. i've seen people suffering from psychosis where they eat their own poop. unfortunately for them and their victims (like this baby), it's too late for help and what are you going to do with someone like this? the act is so atrocious, they can't be "stablized on meds" and released back into the world after a awhile. they need to be locked away in a mental health ward for life. i understand the importance of mental health for those lucky enough to get help before they act out in a psychotic rage. after they cut up, burn, drown,starve, etc their children.....it's too late. thorazine for life :(

[Tippytail]

I don't care what the witch was suffering from... no excuse to do what she did.

I certainly hope you don't think by my repeat of what they said that I condone what she did!
If so, then your anger is sadly misplaced!

[Freebeemom]

First of all your opinion is just that YOUR opinion. Do not group everyone into the whole "we" assumption you are making. YOU might not value your children but I assure you, I value my children very much. I suffered from postpartum after my son was born but never ONCE did I, nor would I, ever even dream of harming my children. My kids are my whole world. I take mental illness very seriously but I'm sorry the whole "postpartum" excuse is a bunch of crap.



I don't think that she was directly referring to you. Sadly, I agree that our society does not value it's young or it's elderly. It is a "live for today"attitude. Selfish and greedy...just look around at your neighbor's homes. Anyone have any thanksgiving decorations up? Practically every house in my neighborhood has been hyped about Chri$tma$ since halloween.
There is ALWAYS an excuse made for someone who commits a terriable crime. ALWAYS. Mental illness is a very serious thing. Hospitals/institutions are closing left and right and these people are being forced out on the street.
This woman had a problem, and the state department let that child down. Someone wasn't doing thier job.....someone should have been monitoring that situation to make sure that it didn't happen...but sadly, those departments are bogged down with too many cases just like that.

That poor poor baby and the poor children that have to live through what their mother have done...I can't even imagine.

[NiteQueen]

OMG........That poor baby!!!!

[tammy77]

Still to this day I remember a quote I saw in a movie that is over 10 years old and I will never forget it.I dont know it word for word but its along the lines as this."You know, you need a license to buy a dog, or to drive a car, hell you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reamin' a*****e be a father.(mother)".That comment is so true yet so sad.Not everyone deserves or needs a baby.Some people in this world should never have them yet they are the ones that pop them out left and right.People like myself and my husband dont have that privilage.We have been trying for 2 and a half years for our first little MIRACLE from God and it really pisses me off when I hear stories like this.I do believe that post partum is real because my friend had it.She must not have had it that bad because she overcame it on her own.Any egg donor who kills thier child has to have something else wrong with them.Women need to stop using post partum depression as an excuse to kill thier child.

[ginaaliyah]

wtf!!!! that witch!!!! she let her baby bleed to death in a room while she sat down in a chair, i can not imagine the fear and pain that baby had :( i am sooooo sad im crying for that child, they outta cut her arm's off and let her feel that pain, her child suffered at the hand's of someone she knew and loved im sick of mothers doing this to their own kid's the world has gone mad :(
chrissy

[freebielover]

This is so disgusting, that poor child, I couldn't imagine doing that to ANYONE nevermind your OWN innocent child! I agree Tammy77 I never understood how just anyone could be a parent. I hope that mother gets whats due to her. I hope she lives a LONG life where she has to think about what she did every day.

[Tisky67]

I am sitting here reading this crying my eyes out. You hear of this happening more & more where a parent/caretaker kills a child & then says it is due to mental illness. Sorry but I don't think so. Call me heartless or cruel but let someone do that to the mother then. Let her suffer the way that innocent baby did.

If she was suffering from post partum depression & was diagnosed , WHY THE H E DOUBLE HOCKEY STICKS WAS SHE ALONE WITH THE CHILD ?!?!?!?!?! If someone knew that she was this sick, why was she not medicated or in a hospital ?

My 2 cents is this --

There are people in the world , right on my block, that would do anything to have a child & then there are people that don't deserve the gifts that God has given them. I pray that someday someone will open their eyes & realize that just because you get pregnant doesn't mean that you are mother material.

[tammy77]

My 2 cents is this --

There are people in the world , right on my block, that would do anything to have a child & then there are people that don't deserve the gifts that God has given them. I pray that someday someone will open their eyes & realize that just because you get pregnant doesn't mean that you are mother material.


AMEN

[Chiizii]

It is so sad that it takes events like this for people to begin to understand Postpartum Depression, Distress, Anxiety and Postpartum Psychosis and how important it is to take this illness as seriously as possible.
Our society needs to begin to understand mental illnesses and stop judging so harshly. Maybe then more babies can be saved and these stories will soon be so rare.

[CatrinaF25]

I don't know why everyone acts so surprised. We do not value our children in this society. And we do not take mental illness seriously but instead give it a stigma and an outrageous cost to get help.

People do all sorts of things to their children and it seems as if no one is able to intervene before the worst happens. CPS is understaffed and we let anyone have children without offering long term support to families. Have a baby and leave the hospital.


Excuse me . but I charish my childrens life more then life its self. I would lay my life down for them children in a second. no questions asked. so donot say WE donot value our children. you have NO idea what I value and what i do not value

[Blackberry]

It is so sad that it takes events like this for people to begin to understand Postpartum Depression, Distress, Anxiety and Postpartum Psychosis and how important it is to take this illness as seriously as possible.

Doesn't sound like many people in this thread understand postpartum depression or mental illness. Hearing stories like this makes most people understand it less. Sad to say but really unless you have experienced it you cannot fully understand mental illness.

**BTW I am not defending anyone who hurts their child. I'm just saying that mental illness is a powerful thing. And no one is a fault for having it....it is just a roll of the dice.

[MnMLover]

Don't forget the woman that killed ALL 5 OF HER KIDS.Ok,I'm a believer in post-partum depression to a dergee.I could have believed it if it were something not so gruesome as drowning all 5 kids or this one mutilating her child.At some stinking point reality and common sense HAS to kick in.I would think after the first child was dead or the first drop of blood seen would have brought reality swimming back into view and remorse and the idea to get help would be there.It's insane.We had a murder in our area earlier as well.And it was a mutilation as well.Hard to believe that this is what the world's come too huh.

[Chiizii]

Doesn't sound like many people in this thread understand postpartum depression or mental illness. Hearing stories like this makes most people understand it less. Sad to say but really unless you have experienced it you cannot fully understand mental illness.

**BTW I am not defending anyone who hurts their child. I'm just saying that mental illness is a powerful thing. And no one is a fault for having it....it is just a roll of the dice.

I agree. When I had my children some time ago I started hearing these kinds of stories and how so often it is misunderstood. In more recent news we have Dena and 199 other women who have taken the lives of their own children. Even though it isn't rare, 3 out of 5 children are killed daily in the US, the misinformation and unrealistic view that this is rare behavior persist are still seen. Remember Andrea Yates? At the same time the media was swamping us with the story of the Yates children, many harsh judgements flashing around forums and message boards; in California a man dragged his grill into his house and started it. All the time knowing it would kill his children. Did the media cover this, no we didn't. As horrible as it may seem to so many women, Mother love is not universal. What gets us in trouble is the cultural belief of the idealization of women as natural loving mothers.


NANCY SCHEPER-HUGHES, medical anthropologist, cross-cultural studies include children and motherhood, violence, and mental illness says:
"We should detach from the idea of universal motherhood as natural and see it as a social response. Women in jail reported that no-one believed them when they said they wanted to kill their children. "There's a collective denial even when mothers come right out and say "I really shouldn't be trusted with my kids."

Infanticide is a very rare phenomenon; only about 4 percent of women who become psychotic kill their babies. There is a good chance that Dena is part of that small percentage.

[MelanieAnn]

I feel such anger, that I am at a loss of words right now.


May that baby rest in peace, somehow, some way.

:(

[SAHMom]

EXCUSES, EXCUSES, EXCUSES! I'm so sick of people making excuses for idiots who do such horrible things like this! Psychosis my foot! All I see is an EVIL hateful soul that could do something like this! Stop having children if you are too selfish to take care of them! Give them to someone who will love and cherish them! This EVIL B deserves the death penalty!

Also, for the person who stated that "we do not value our children in this society", Do you have children yourself????? If you do then i suggest you start putting some value on their little lives....if you DON'T, then stop passing judgement about something you have no clue about!

I have 3 children with one more on the way in a few months and I can assure you that I value EVERYTHING about my children! I will admit that at times I get over whelmed and have suffered from post partum depression myself BUT i would never harm my children because I VALUE THEIR LIVES!

[lgc5564]

I don't care what the witch was suffering from... no excuse to do what she did.

I AGREE

My sister had post partum and she NEVER would have hurt her little one. She didn't want to care for him but made sure we knew that so someone would.And when she snapped out of it she was a wonderful mom.

[tsquared]

This is so sad............

[DivineMsDi]

I saw a blurb about this last night on my local news...it made me sick...the idea of someone so messed up ABUSING and killing her child..I wish God had a better system of allowing children into this world. It is so sad. Really beyond words.

Women DO need a support system when they have children than "in labor one day, home the next (or following day)." No help, no questions answered. Plopped home for 24/7 hours with a baby, half of that alone (if the spouse works.). I remember spending a lot of time being sleep deprived, alone and crying. Add to it a sickly, non-sleeping infant (the fantasy that your baby is a sleeping bundle of joy is just not true for everyone...my son slept very poorly for years...). Not everyone has the fawning mother/in laws/cousins and friends to help.

I don't justify infanticide...I just think someone needs to help mothers with newborns and children cope better.

[JWWB2000]

I don't think the justice system is doing any good these days. People are seeing how other people are getting committed for the same crime and don't give a rat's butt. Now if we were to start to kill the people who kill their children, then just maybe it would be a wakeup call to others plotting to do the same thing!!!!! And I don't mean let the person sit in jail for ten or fifteen years before they are put to death either!!!!

[YankeeMary]

The whole idea of killing anyone, let alone a baby is just unthinkable to most. If you do not have a mental illness (brain disorder) in your life, whether it be family or friend, then you can not truly understand. This woman did something terrible wrong, actually horrible. But what she has is REAL. I am not saying she is justified, but it is a reason. Educate yourselves on mental illness, then maybe you will understand how someone can do something like this. I said understand, not forgive or accept. Most of those who suffer post partum depression, bounce back within a month or so, others are haunted by it forever. This Baby and mother were let sown by society and their family. She was obviously sick but no one did anything. In case most of you don't know my daughter(step) has bipolar and schizophrenia, the craziness she hears and does are very real to her. If we were to ignore her the way this mother was ignored, then God only knows what Jessica would do. She truly thinks people are out to kill her, so in her mind, its kill or be killed. Should she be locked away forever? NO, medication and therapy are a very important role in her life. She is a Jr. in college with straight A's, was working a job and doing meetings, had her own apartment. Society needs to educated themselves so that things like this doesn't happen to poor little innocent babies don't have to suffer. Knowledge is power. Please know that it breaks my heart that this poor baby suffered as it did, but it also breaks my heart that no one did anything about it BEFORE it happened, only now that it is done do we want to "take care" of this woman. There is so much stigma and ignorance with mental illness, things need to change, people need to educate themselves so that as a society we can do something to stop these horrible things from happening. Go to nami.org and read on the different mental illnesses (brain disorders) enlighten yourself.

[Freebeemom]

Also, for the person who stated that "we do not value our children in this society", Do you have children yourself????? If you do then i suggest you start putting some value on their little lives....if you DON'T, then stop passing judgement about something you have no clue about!

I have 3 children with one more on the way in a few months and I can assure you that I value EVERYTHING about my children! I will admit that at times I get over whelmed and have suffered from post partum depression myself BUT i would never harm my children because I VALUE THEIR LIVES![/QUOTE]


Again, I don't think she was referring directly to you. This is a general/subjective and collective use of WE. "We as a society"....look around you. There are SO MANY parents who choose themselves over their children. I have 3 children, and am a sahm. I am constantly shaking my head at the way that some people treat their children. I think if you look at what is valued in our society, you will understand what she is saying.

Turn on your TV, look in teenage magazines, look at your billboards...it is all about MONEY and getting ahead. It is very very sad, and this woman will probably be spared because of it.

[cch]

http://www.drphil.com/show/show.jhtml?contentId=3016_postpartum.xml

[JKATHERINE]

First of all your opinion is just that YOUR opinion. Do not group everyone into the whole "we" assumption you are making. YOU might not value your children but I assure you, I value my children very much. I suffered from postpartum after my son was born but never ONCE did I, nor would I, ever even dream of harming my children. My kids are my whole world. I take mental illness very seriously but I'm sorry the whole "postpartum" excuse is a bunch of crap.

ITA. Very well put.

I, too, suffered from Post Partum after A v e r y was born in July. I know my post-partum wasn't as bad as others who I've known, but it was, well, depressing. BUT, I never once thought of harming myself or others--especially my baby!

[DivineMsDi]

In reply to "Society not valueing children..." let me add this. What sort of punishment do people get when they hurt/kill a child compared to an adult? Lesser. Some do a few years. They certainly do not do as much time as those who kill adults.

That is totally wrong.

We have to make the penalities for harming children as harsh or worse.

[justme23]

In reply to "Society not valueing children..." let me add this. What sort of punishment do people get when they hurt/kill a child compared to an adult? Lesser. Some do a few years. They certainly do not do as much time as those who kill adults.

That is totally wrong.

We have to make the penalities for harming children as harsh or worse.

I don't know where they do lesser at... but it's certainly not here... but then again... this being Texas... they love to kill ppl here.

[laughsalot]

Ok, I do have a mental illness but I dont have kids so I dont know about post partum. I know that when I go un medicated and start withdrawing from my family, friends, life and acting strangely then my family will take control. I am just wondering where was her family? Did they not notice that anything was wrong? All I can say is THANK GOD, I have never been that far gone that I would fatally injure another human being.

As far as their being a stigma attached to mental illness, you are right about that. I can tell you it will have to be the ones of us who can communicate to raise the awareness of mental illness and for all people to be able to get the help they need, so that we dont have to continually hear about these devastatingly true stories of pure HORROR. Who is going to do it for us? Speak up, stand up, its a mission I take very seriously.

[justme23]

They released the 911 tape... this is the transcript... I've listened to it and she sounds like she's on drugs... very subdued.

911 TRANSCRIPT

The operator asks what happened to the baby.

Ms. Schlosser: "I cut her arms off."

Operator: "You cut her arms off?"

Ms. Schlosser: "Mm-hmm."

Operator: "Is she [the baby] conscious?

Ms. Schlosser: "No."

Operator: "Is she breathing?"

Ms. Schlosser: "No."

Operator: "Can you get as close to the baby as possible?"

Ms. Schlosser: "She's in the other room."

Operator: "Do you want to help the baby, ma'am?"

Ms. Schlosser: "Yeah ..."

Operator: "OK, then I need you to bring the baby by the phone so we can help you, ma'am."

Ms. Schlosser: "OK."

The call soon disconnects.

[joesbaby]

when i was a young single mother with a newborn,and a 5yr old son..i had postpartum depression. i took zolft for it..and then i stoped...because it made me not want to do anything for either of them. i never thought of hurting them, my self..yah..but never my kids. when i had my last child, (shes now 6) i was depressed for a while, but my son was old enough to help me out, wich was good, since my babys dad wouldnt. i feel so badly for the baby. it breaks my heart. for all the moms who have post partum depression, my heart goes out to you, and i keep you in my prayers. i hope every parent has as much for the children, as every child deserves.

ericka

[schsa]

If we valued children, and I am speaking about society not the individuals, no child would be left in a home where parents are alcoholics. No child would be left in a home where drugs were prevelant. No child would be in danger by going to school. No child would be abused or destroyed by an adult. If we valued our children, children would not be raped.

What I am saying is that we allow things to happen to children that we wouldn't allow to happen to a dog. As an individual you may cherish your children and some of you will call CPS to intervene when you see problems, but CPS cannot control every situation. There aren't enough social workers to police people who's children are at risk.

No, I am one of those who cannot have children. I found out at a very early age that it would be impossible for me to concieve. And don't assume that I cannot feel for children. We treat our animals better than we treat our children. All you have to do is read the posts here about what friends, neighbors and relatives do to their children and CPS does nothing or very little. Or if you want to intervene to help a child, the parents get angry, not because someone is trying to help their child but because they don't like someone interfering with their beating of the children.

And then you have a mental health issue. Most of you will never understand it. And you should thank your lucky stars that you don't have to deal with it. People who are mentally ill are all around you. Some of us are on medication and in therapy and are highly functional. Then there are those who are extremely ill but will not seek help or have a doctor who will not recognize their illness. And there are those who have family members who think that you can just snap out of it. People who are the living dead, those who are so overwhelmed by their illness are not like the rest of society. They hear voices, they see things that aren't there, they cannot control their thoughts. These are the people who will kill their children, commit suicide, and do other outrageous acts because they are compelled to do so.

And if you have never been there, don't make it out to be something simple. Mental illness is so complex, no one really understands it. Unless you have lived it.

[Njean31]

ITA. Very well put.

I, too, suffered from Post Partum after A v e r y was born in July. I know my post-partum wasn't as bad as others who I've known, but it was, well, depressing. BUT, I never once thought of harming myself or others--especially my baby!

you obviously never experienced psychosis then. PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THIS PLEASE........... it's called a psychotic episode, you CANNOT control it, you hear demons telling you to do things, you see things others don't. it's not an EXCUSE BUT AN EXPLANATION.

also, mental illness isn't the only thing that can bring it on.....certain brain conditions/diseases, drugs, dehydration, malnutrition...

forgiveness isn't the issue, understanding it is so we can help prevent such tragedies in the future and get these people the help they need before it's too late and they kill someone and spend the rest of their lives in a mental ward.

[PrincessArky]

I dont see how the mental illness is even coming into play here for her excuse seeing as it is a proven fact that 95% of all serial killers have a mental illness of some kind and they get the death sentence they so deserve.........I myself am bipolar w/a family history of other things along with it and I have at times been very suicidal but I never once thought of killing one of my children. I just feel badly for the child that died and the other two little ones that will have to grow up with losing a sister, a mother, and who knows what else before this is all over with :(

[Chiizii]

They released the 911 tape... this is the transcript... I've listened to it and she sounds like she's on drugs... very subdued.

911 TRANSCRIPT

The operator asks what happened to the baby.

Ms. Schlosser: "I cut her arms off."

Operator: "You cut her arms off?"

Ms. Schlosser: "Mm-hmm."

Operator: "Is she [the baby] conscious?

Ms. Schlosser: "No."

Operator: "Is she breathing?"

Ms. Schlosser: "No."

Operator: "Can you get as close to the baby as possible?"

Ms. Schlosser: "She's in the other room."

Operator: "Do you want to help the baby, ma'am?"

Ms. Schlosser: "Yeah ..."

Operator: "OK, then I need you to bring the baby by the phone so we can help you, ma'am."

Ms. Schlosser: "OK."

The call soon disconnects.

I though she sounded very disconnected from the world around her.
It was haunting. I hope Dena's husband and remaining children have some support around them at this time as they struggle with the whys. I also hope that Dena gets the help she needs.

From LISA FALKENBERG ~ Associated Press Writer Popular Bluff Daily American Republic

In January, the agency was called to the home after Schlosser was seen running down the street, with one of her daughters bicycling after her, authorities said. When officials arrived, the child told them her mother had left her 6-day-old sister alone in the apartment.

Schlosser appeared at the time to be suffering from postpartum depression and having a psychotic episode, Gonzales saidSchlosser was hospitalized, and later agreed to seek counseling and saw a psychiatrist, Gonzales said.
"At the time we closed the case, we had been assured that Mom was stabilized and that she was not a risk to herself or her children," Geoff Wool, spokesman for the Family and Protective Services Department, said..

They simply closed her case entirely too soon.


It is so difficult for people to understand that a psychotic breakdown is nothing that can be controlled especially in circumstances like Dena's and her family.
If people would quit perpetuating the misinformation and learn maybe more can be done to save another children.
I first learned about Postpartum Depression/Anxiety/Psychosis back in the 80's . I am frightened how still almost 25 years later I still see the same stigma and misinformation.

[SAHMom]

she was SANE enough to call 9-1-1 WASN'T SHE???? :rolleyes:

I guess she just suddenly snapped back...huh? :rolleyes:

I don't mean to sound rude but what this woman did was vile and discusting! I don't see how anyone can defend her!


The world is so full of labels....if you want to label her, give her the label she deserves......CHILD MURDERER! :mad: :mad:

[Chiizii]

If you took time to read the reports, 9-1-1 called her. The it could be discovered that the child's father called the daycare to check on his wife and daughter. After the daycare people talked to the mother, they called 9-1-1 and then a call was made to Dena Schlosser. Then is when Dena Schlosser told in a very disconnect voice that she hurt her child. In fact USA Today has the audio. (http://www.usatoday.com/usafront.htm)

No one is defending her actions. What Dena Schlosser did to her child is inbearable in many of our minds.
It is simply that some of us are either health care workers or have family members who suffer from mental illness including psychotic breakdowns. Therefore it becomes necessary to take time to educate yourself and your family in order to care for a family member or take care of other people's families.
With the stigma and ignorance others choose to carry around often it is left to health care workers to care for the tossed off people that some families will no longer care for. Kudos to those who rise up to the challenges of caring for those who are mentally ill and help people like me who have family members who are very ill.

[SAHMom]

Chiizii you are right, i didn't read the report that you posted nor do I wish to read it.

Regardless, nothing will change my mind on how strongly I feel about what she did! If she was hospitalized and treated by a psychiatrist, I would think she was given medication for her condition or else I doubt her children would be left in her care. SHE is responsible for making the decision of taking her medication so that is no excuse! Help was offered to her and she should have tried to help herself!

[Freebeemom]

Murder is murder...this is a sick sick story. Period.

[kygirl71]

I read this story while my six month old baby girl lays in my lap. When I get done reading this...I looked down at her into those beautiful little eyes and wonder how any mother could ever possibly hurt her own child. This little beauty in my lap is depending on me to make everything right in her world. No baby deserves being hurt or mistreated in any way.
I was clinically depressed shortly after giving birth to my first child. But even at my very worst moments..thoughts of hurting her never entered my mind.
That woman had to have some serious problems. They should cut her arms off!

[belcherpi]

I read this earlier and couldn't respond. It made me sick to my stomach. I couldn't imagine what that poor baby went through. It just breaks my heart to hear/read stories like this. :(

[Chiizii]

I understand. This is horrible horrible news. But it is good that attention is being brought to these situations. This is an extreme form of post-natal depression that affects less than 1% of mothers, has been blamed for some two dozen babies' deaths in the US in the last 20 years. Due to the media we are becoming informed of the events but not informed correctly. This is being lumped into the other hundreds of maternal filicides that are committed each year. Many of those deaths are due to neglect (Marie G. Robinson) (http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1116ChildrenDead16-ON.html),abuse (Sarah Powell) (Sarah Powell ) , or the abandonment of an unwanted newborn (PDF) (http://www.saveabandonedbabies.org/news/011702.pdf).

I have to go now got to get dinner. I will leave with this thought. Many people who are depressed stop taking their medicines for many reasons. It isn't quite as simple as it sounds.

[stresseater]

I'm sorry but there is no way to convince me that people like this should not be sterilized. Someone who is capable of this is not cureable as much as controllable and controll can be lost. They should be rendered unable to ever be put in this situation again. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[irrelevant0]

psychosis is not excuse, i don't care what anyone says. i was put on a medication for depression a few months ago. it made me hear voices telling me to do things - did i do it? NO! i took my butt to the hospital where they figured out what was going on, and got me off the medication. my aunt is schizophrenic. she hears voices telling her to do really weird things. does she? again, NO! she sees a PSYCHIATRIST. i have a friend who hears voices telling her to drink gasoline and pull her nails off. she doesn't do this. she calls me. like i said, there is no excuse. you can always control yourself, whether you are impaired or not.

[Tippytail]

In the stories today they mentioned that for the first 6 months, this woman was on meds for severe depression. CPS or whoever it that checks on them, did so weekly for those same 6 months. The girls were thriving in what seemed to be a stabilized and happy home. It was them, and I'm sure her doctors, that decided she no longer needed these meds. Probably never thinking that it was the meds that were making her appear stabilized.

As for why there were no friends or family to help, I don't have any answers but maybe when people were around and pressure was taken off of her, it didn't seem to be a pressing matter. Now I'm not saying that her husband is at fault because he knew of her problems but chose to go to work. But I also doubt that had he had some sort of warning, he would have left for work...I can't fault a man for working. Up until this point things appeared to be good. He only called the daycare for help when he could not get her on the phone.

I don't condone what she did. I also don't understand the mental illness itself but I do know enough to believe she didn't put on airs by going to church, being a past member of PTA just to wait for the day she could mutilate her youngest child. Something in that woman's head snapped and had she still been on the meds, it MAY have only prevented this from happening. It wasn't her making a conscience decision it was because, for some reason or another, her mind snapped.

It is vile, disgusting and whatever other words you can attach to it. I don't think that "we as a society don't value our children" is the problem. I know from the posts here alone, that that isn't true. I would fight tooth and nail to protect, not only my own kids, but any child. If it comes down to laws and punishments for crimes then, as we've all been told, only we can change that.

[irrelevant0]

i have one more thing to say :

i just went back and read the article, and i noticed the live in an apartment. umm... why didn't someone go check in or call the police??? the cries of a baby having it's arms chopped off have got to be obviously, painfully different than a poopy diaper cry or an i'm hungry cry. i mean really ...

[adorkablex]

i have one more thing to say :

i just went back and read the article, and i noticed the live in an apartment. umm... why didn't someone go check in or call the police??? the cries of a baby having it's arms chopped off have got to be obviously, painfully different than a poopy diaper cry or an i'm hungry cry. i mean really ...
The baby probably passed out rather quickly.

[Njean31]

psychosis is not excuse, you can always control yourself, whether you are impaired or not.

ever heard of a little thing called seizures? it's UNCONTROLABLE, a brain dysfunction......neurons firing sporadically..... same thing as psychosis...a brain dysfunction.

if you go and take a class in psychiatry or take a tour to the mental health ward or possibly even the local jail, you'll change your tune.

let me deduce this somewhat on terms alot of folks may understand. have you ever heard of an alcoholic blackout. during that period, even a usually normal person (minus the booze) does things WAY out of character and doesn't remember it the next day. psychosis falls along those lines, its a BRAIN dysfunction, once it comes on......YOU NOR ANYBODY ELSE CAN CONTROL IT WITHOUT SOME SERIOUS MEDS.

NOBODY is saying it's an excuse, only an EXPLANATION. i totally agree with sterilizing anyone who crosses the line like this, better to be safe than sorry AND she should be locked away in a mental hospital for the rest of her life.

Medications can usually control psychotic episodes if taken properly, BUT alot of these people don't take them right for various reasons (which is a whole 'nother subject), not just because they don't want to.

[irrelevant0]

hi there njean31.

of course i have heard of seizures. who hasn't? i don't think they're such a 'little thing' either. my cousin used to have them when she was small. obviously seizures are a little different. never heard of anyone killing someone during a seizure.

as far as mental health facilities, i have been commited twice. not a single person at either place was unable to control themselves. not one. and yes, there were severely troubled minds there, some with symptoms of psychosis.

i have had a psychology class. been a while, but i did take one.

so, most of these things you're telling me i should go and do, i have already done. i may not be an expert, but i have an idea of what i am talking about.

so, i guess i won't be 'changing my tune' since my 'tune' was developed after having done those things. thanks anyway.

adorkablex, you could be right. probably are actually, now that i think about it.

[Chiizii]

Thank you NJean.
I am afraid that there is not much else that can be done to explain much more about this story. People have already conviced Dena Schlosser as they did Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney.

[Njean31]

hi there njean31.

of course i have heard of seizures. who hasn't? i don't think they're such a 'little thing' either. my cousin used to have them when she was small. obviously seizures are a little different. never heard of anyone killing someone during a seizure.

as far as mental health facilities, i have been commited twice. not a single person at either place was unable to control themselves. not one. and yes, there were severely troubled minds there, some with symptoms of psychosis.

i have had a psychology class. been a while, but i did take one.

so, most of these things you're telling me i should go and do, i have already done. i may not be an expert, but i have an idea of what i am talking about.

so, i guess i won't be 'changing my tune' since my 'tune' was developed after having done those things. thanks anyway.

adorkablex, you could be right. probably are actually, now that i think about it.

i'm sorry you feel that way :(

[irrelevant0]

i notice you are singleing on me when there are others who have said what i have. may i ask why?

[Tippytail]

The baby probably passed out rather quickly.


I agree...
The man that lived next door said that he has always heard them play but he didn't hear anything yesterday.

[Njean31]

i notice you are singleing on me when there are others who have said what i have. may i ask why?


it was just that one line you stated that i quoted that got to me. i do not feel, no......i KNOW that people cannot always control themselves..impaired or not. nothing personal at all, I'm a nurse and have seen so much that i know it to be a fact, but you are entitled to your opinion.

i certainly didn't mean to pick on you and i'm sorry if you felt i was. i believe there are truely evil people in the world such as Hitler, Stalin, Dahlmer........other's actions are a result of a mental illness.

by the way, i wasn't always understanding of this psychosis thing...even after nursing school and psych classes. it wasn't until i worked in the county jail for 6 years and NOW at hospice where i see older people afflicted with dementia that i truely understand.

btw, God bless that baby, it more than likely didn't slowly bleed to death, shock would have taken over immediatley after the arteries were severed. at any rate, slow.......fast........it's horrific.

[SAHMom]

People have already conviced Dena Schlosser as they did Andrea Yates and Deanna Laney.


Should she not be convicted??? Does she deserve some kind of special treatment after doing such a harendous act to an innocent child? I would love a front row seat if she gets the death penalty! :mad:

[YankeeMary]

psychosis is not excuse, i don't care what anyone says. i was put on a medication for depression a few months ago. it made me hear voices telling me to do things - did i do it? NO! i took my butt to the hospital where they figured out what was going on, and got me off the medication. my aunt is schizophrenic. she hears voices telling her to do really weird things. does she? again, NO! she sees a PSYCHIATRIST. i have a friend who hears voices telling her to drink gasoline and pull her nails off. she doesn't do this. she calls me. like i said, there is no excuse. you can always control yourself, whether you are impaired or not.

You must be the luckiest woman in the world to know such faboulous schizophrenics...we aren't as lucky. THE VOICES CAN NOT ALWAYS BE CONTROLLED. You have truly ticked me off here, sorry to say. Your lack of knowledge is devastating. Depression is horrible but pyschosis is way way worse. Most people that are on Meds and do well decide they are doing good and therefore don't need their meds, so they quit taking them. My daughter is one that is able to function with meds with out them, she completely gone, and we never know what she will do to her self or others. Thats why it is important to educate yourself with the illness so that you (parents, family, caretakers) know when to take action and get the individual the help they need. Not all schizophrenics will physically harm anyone, some just them selves. Its not fair or right to group them all in one catagory and say this or that...they are all different just as we "normal" people are all different. I know people (one in particular) that is a diabetic. His sugar was so off that he got violent and was always wanting to fist fight others. Not all diabetics react this way. Instead of comparing one to another take time to learn about the illness and help to educate others so that eventually no more babies have to suffer.

[Chiizii]

Should she not be convicted??? Does she deserve some kind of special treatment after doing such a harendous act to an innocent child? I would love a front row seat if she gets the death penalty! :mad:

I do not believe I have even addressed anything more than dealing with the stigma and ignorance of this profound and uncommon form of mental illness. I am as angry as YankeeMary.

The system stinks. Dena and the others need doctors that specialize in illness like hers, nurses that care enough to endure the hard days, treatments and a hospital that confines her and that will provide her safety from the hate.

In this so called modern world we treat those with mental illness as if they are 2nd class citizens and hurt their families by ignoring the information that is available, refusing to fight for laws and treatment programs that will honor their families members that have died from these horrible events.

The more we learn, the more we push aside the stigma, the more babies that live and families that live together.

[SAHMom]

I will not comment on this thread again after this post because I enjoy this board and do not want to get banned.

But just let me say that I am equally angry that people are making EXCUSES for such a discusting human being!

I understand alot about mental illness....believe me I do. Someone VERY close to me suffers from mental illness. This person stays on their medication and leads a normal life in society. On their medications they have a choice.....take the medication and help control yourself, or stop and spiral down again. THEIR IS NO EXCUSE FOR WHAT SHE DID!