Remains disposed @ a place called Fresh Kills...disturbing?

[stacyo99]

Once you read the news in the first below link, if you find it as demoralizing as I do, then do the right things and sign the petition (at the 2nd link). Would you want your own body/remains, or those of your members @ a place called Fresh Kills? :mad: :(

Yahoo News: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=4&u=/usatoday/20041006/ts_usatoday/wtcfamilieswantremainsoutoflandfill

Petition: http://www.petitiononline.com/WTCASHES/petition-sign.html?

[buttrfli]

hummmm If I read the article correctly, they are going to build a memorial park on top of the WTC ashes? I doubt they will keep the name "Fresh Kills". As much as my heart aches for these families, why can't they visit the park that is being planned? I understand that they want a "proper" place for their son to be burried, but just by reading the article, where else can the city put the WTC ashes?

Maybe I read it wrong, but I do have mixed emotions about it.

[justme23]

That place has been called Fresh Kills for years, if I'm not mistaken... and considering where it's located... where else could we expect them to put the ashes? I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the family... but it's not like they had that many options as to where to take it... I think the fact that they are going to turn it in to a park shows that they care... as far as I know, they don't have many other places to even dump their trash other than the place in question... I don't live there, so of course I could be wrong.

I highly doubt that they'll keep the name Fresh Kills either... I'm sorry, but I can't sign this petition... I think the city is doing absolutely everything they can w/ the money they have... I'm sure if it were one of my family members that I might feel differently, but as an outsider looking in, I think they're doing the right thing.

[LuvBigRip]

I just wanted to add the the name of the dump has always been Fresh Kills, and was the facility that was able to handle the massive amounts of debris that was being removed from Ground Zero. Do I believe that the remains should have been handled differently? Yes. But the enormity of the situation was overwhelming. In most countries, bodies are placed in mass graves when the count is massive or the destruction to the bodies does not afford identification. The costs associated with the sifting of the debris would be high, although I think the number cited is inflated. They want the Federal Government to pay for this too. Then, I am sure there would be committees to form committees to discuss the committee to develop a a memorial. Will you be able to please everyone with any type of memorial? No.

I guess I am conflicted too. Personally, I think too much emphasis is placed on a grave site. We are only shells, once the soul is gone, we are but dust in the wind. But that is just my opinion.

[buttrfli]

I highly doubt that they'll keep the name Fresh Kills either... I'm sorry, but I can't sign this petition... I think the city is doing absolutely everything they can w/ the money they have... I'm sure if it were one of my family members that I might feel differently, but as an outsider looking in, I think they're doing the right thing.

I didn't sign it either. I agree that if it were a family member of mine, I might feel differently.

I don't think it was disrespectful of the city, they just had no other options.

[sahmsfreeb]

as a member of the nyc metro area i feel that i can explain this for those outside the nyc area....
freshkills is the name of the landfill that was closed just for a few months before it needed to be reopened to take the huge vast amounts of debris from the ground zero site.
the freshkills landfill was after its closing to become an environmental park. complete with "rolling green hills and marshlands. A place that teems with birds, animals and water life. A place that Staten Islanders, indeed all New Yorkers will one day visit in large numbers. In short, Fresh Kills will likely evolve into the one of the most attractive areas in this region and a jewel in the City’s crown of world-class parks."sadly that has not come to fruition due to 9/11

cars.. metal... paper.. etc.. after it had been searched for human remains was sent to the freshkills landfill.

there it sits. still being sifted and inspected for any last bits...


sadly even if the name of the landfill was changed all of us in the nyc metro area would always refer to it as the freshkills landfill...




The name Fresh Kills refers to its location along the banks of the Fresh Kills

Fresh Kills is a stream and freshwater estuary in western Staten Island, New York. The watershed of the Fresh Kills drain much of the wet lowlands of the western portion of the island and flows into the Arthur Kill around the Isle of Meadow. The channel around the north end of the Isle of Meadow is sometimes called Little Fresh Kill and the southern channel is called Great Fresh Kill.
..... Click the link for more information. estuary in western Staten Island

KILL is a term found in NY meaning Creek.
There is the Arthur Kill (arthur creek) next to the Freshkills landfill which is right next to the Fresh Kills Creek
mapquest staten island fresh kills (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/print.adp?mapdata=kqnq0HTj%252frrxq2jCmmZnoW2CMsXf 1Ozi0qskOKC24DXQ5YxofJVV9w%252blsTbazsJNP4lng1%252 fn8Y3NLBwyroSaDnPkFexP2bMbdlPLMiD1jdHpXXoRmANzBD8x 57XVmYh99lzZg4w6l5uQ0F49EhRcwAnzC%252bbsJlbWvQ1zfk SDkrRczAOOd82qPaTy%252bp8DVOLfwqnPTlFxRxKMDEMt0O2w s%252fwheX7pVbLEL%252f3HRXi%252f8zYx0fhz3T2wOh7W9B xUjDcK%252bLGr0W0Gs1wl0WlVPmQZsjbp3UOjdRja%252bMXl 8qlm3UGE%252fEcd%252fSJWh5yDQDKTSqzhkdTshoEhBOI48u 0hncQDrI8ENF5vu6h1ioGFgaCdlIlaE64iSeUeVhFr%252bfzq 1e4p)

[stacyo99]

Thanks sahmsfreeb for letting those of us not there know about it. I find it quite disturbing that so many people said if it were my family it might be a different story. Thats cool tho. I hope it never happens again and that your family members wont be in such a situation. I have always been told I take things too personally, but have JUST figured out that this is my blessing. I take things too personally which means I have empathy for others. None of my family were in the WTC however, I can feel the peoples pain (not as much as they feel it). Ive always heard the saying "walk in my shoes", and so I thought I would put myself in their spot. If I was them would I ask people to sign a petition, you bet. Would I EXPECT others to sign it, nope, thats someones personal choice, not to be condemned if they sign it or not. I just cant imagine, being one of those victims, or a family members. It would break my heart hearing people pretty much say "too bad for your family, glad its not mine". Or worst yet, imgine if you were in Heaven looking down on your families pain, and realizing that even though you have left your "shell"/body, people dont care if your final resting place is a wasteland,or even care what happens to it. I have always respected deaths, regardless of if I personally knew them or not (they were still someones mother, father, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, etc). I still to this day talk about those who have died, including them as I would like people to do when I die. I want to be remembered therefore I remember.

Plz dont take offense to my above post, I dont have the time to apologize if feelings got hurt, nor do I feel theres anything to apologize for. I was just saying how sad. I am not condemning you for not signing, I just think its sad about the wording. I wont sign it (ok, your choice) but if it was my family maybe it would be a different story.

[sahmsfreeb]

no reason for you to be sorry...

sadly the freshkills was the only place available to take in the massive amounts of debris in such short notice...

if it was my family member id be peeved...or maybe i wouldnt.. i dont really know what i would feel if i had to feel it..

but one must remember that in extraordinary times extraordinary measures must be taken.

There is an old saying that "you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time."

[buttrfli]

Thanks sahmsfreeb for letting those of us not there know about it. I find it quite disturbing that so many people said if it were my family it might be a different story. Thats cool tho. I hope it never happens again and that your family members wont be in such a situation. I have always been told I take things too personally, but have JUST figured out that this is my blessing. I take things too personally which means I have empathy for others. None of my family were in the WTC however, I can feel the peoples pain (not as much as they feel it). Ive always heard the saying "walk in my shoes", and so I thought I would put myself in their spot. If I was them would I ask people to sign a petition, you bet. Would I EXPECT others to sign it, nope, thats someones personal choice, not to be condemned if they sign it or not. I just cant imagine, being one of those victims, or a family members. It would break my heart hearing people pretty much say "too bad for your family, glad its not mine". Or worst yet, imgine if you were in Heaven looking down on your families pain, and realizing that even though you have left your "shell"/body, people dont care if your final resting place is a wasteland,or even care what happens to it. I have always respected deaths, regardless of if I personally knew them or not (they were still someones mother, father, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, etc). I still to this day talk about those who have died, including them as I would like people to do when I die. I want to be remembered therefore I remember.

Plz dont take offense to my above post, I dont have the time to apologize if feelings got hurt, nor do I feel theres anything to apologize for. I was just saying how sad. I am not condemning you for not signing, I just think its sad about the wording. I wont sign it (ok, your choice) but if it was my family maybe it would be a different story.

I don't think anyone would take offense to what you said, but I do need to clarify that just because I don't feel the same as you dosen't mean I am not empathetic. I hurt for the victims and their families just as everyone else does. I persoanlly stated that if it were my family I may feel different because I can't feel what those parents are feeling.... but I have a good idea as I lost a close family member in the OKC bombing.

God forbid that it were one of my family members in the WTC. Yes I would be devestated that their remains were in a landfill, however I would not expect the city to move mountains just so that I would have a place to visit my loved one. I agree that the city is doing the right thing and that they are trying to be as respectful as possible in how the placement was handled. I am sorry you feel the way you do about us who don't share your feelings, but in all honesty there is only so much the city can do.

This is one of those things that no matter what happens, there will always be someone who is not satisfied with the result.

Maybe the city can let each family member ratain some ashes for a burial of their choosing.

[Kelsey1224]

I won't sign it either. I believe that when the park is eventually built it will be a wonderful memorial...regardless of what the land was once used for.

I feel for these families and understand how their hearts are breaking. But, I do not believe that they have suggested reasonable solutions to solve this monumental problem.

I do not believe that I have to agree with the OP to be a compassionate person. It is possible to still have compassion and be caring without agreeing on this issue.

[justme23]

I don't think you should apologize for what you said... but I don't think you should insinuate that others haven't put themselves in their shoes, either... I myself lost my mother when I was very young, and while it obviously wasn't to a terroristic act, I most definitely know the tragedy of losing a loved one... that being said, I still very much believe that the city is doing everything they can w/ the funds they have.

To clarify, when I said 'if it were one of my family members I might feel differently'... I meant that as an outsider and someone who has never been on staten island and not knowing exactly what it all looks like... it sounds very much like they are trying to make it a beautiful place for memories of the survivors... NOT that I didn't understand the grief that they were feeling. And certainly not that I don't feel compassion for them.