JC Penney food for thought

[cjhooney]

Had an occasion to call the Customer Service phone# to see if a payment made online had been posted .. they employ an India callcenter ! I immediately wrote to them to express my anger at the fact I spent American dollars in their store and expect they would employ American workers rather than outsource the work that I have been doing for several years. I will be reconsidering my purchases thru their stores. I just won't deal with anyone who uses these Outsourced callcenters. I have many disabled friends who depend on these jobs to support themselves and their families. We have to start protecting our country from the preditory companies who under value us. I know that sounds a little severe but this is really a problem in my industry. :mad:

[suzski]

cjhooney, I watched a show on PBS about the booming economy in India...in part due to outsourcing like this. You would be surprised (amazed, actually) at the number of companies that employ Indians to manage their call centers...many, many credit card companies employ them as well as companies like JCP and computer customer service centers...they are trained to "talk American" and often use American-sounding names instead of their real names. The more "American" they sound, the better their chances at getting these jobs, and they pay pretty well (comparatively), so the jobs are highly sought after. Good deal for India, bad for us.

Bottom line, it's not just JCP, and is probably the credit card company that you use to pay for your stuff at whatever store you're shopping at....or the customer support staff that helps you when your computer is messing up....

[sailakfan]

CJhooney,
This is an inappropriate place to post such a comment. But here is my 2 cents on this issue. If outsourcing helps bring the cost down for the consumers then why are you crying out loud? The reason for you being on this board is to find out if there are any good savings out there and big companies are doing the same. And if you are really skilled and hardworking why should you complain. The reason big companies are outsourcing is mainly because they can find cheap and hardworking and trustworthy and dedicated workers. I am not posting this to start a war or something but I felt your post to be odd in this forum.
regards,
sailakfan

[never]

OP

Thanks for the shopping advice = and this does belong in this forum because most of us want to know if the deal is worth it.

There is legislation pending in my home state about this. I had worked for a company that does outsourcing to India and the scrutiny caused them to do a PR campaign concerning recruitment of Americans.

This outsoucing and low paying jobs is what is causing the economy to be poor. The 'consumers' are mostly working people who DESERVE decent jobs and decent salaries. Very few people want their friends to be unemployed in order to save a dollar.

[bribella]

I would rather spend more money if that meant that jobs would stay here in AMERICA. outsourcing may bring the cost of things down but IMO that would mean that the less jobs that are done here in the USA means more out of work americans= less money in the economy to go around.

[Momof2totsand1teen]

I would rather spend more money if that meant that jobs would stay here in AMERICA. outsourcing may bring the cost of things down but IMO that would mean that the less jobs that are done here in the USA means more out of work americans= less money in the economy to go around.

ITA, Very well said.

[kriskay]

If companies keep outsourcing like this, pretty soon there is going to be nobody in America that can afford their product, even at a reduced price.

[uncledoondie]

Uh Ha,
This probably explains the problem I have with Hewlett Packard. I've had two HP computers and two HP printers and everytime I call their CS dept. I have gotten a representative who "sounds Indian". They do not understand me and I don't understand them. Last time when my computer completely fried I called and after spending many minutes explaining the computer would do nothing the rep asked me if I was at my computer and online now. DUH!! Everytime I call,after up to an hour on the phone they eventually tell me to return my item for a refund. Last time I knew it was a software problem and they just did not understand what I was trying to tell them and eventually figured out how to fix it myself. I just don't understand how companies think this kind of service translates to good customer relations. To end my tirade let me say I have nothing against anyone from other countries in fact I work for a Doctor from Pakistan and he is the greatest boss ever. I can even understand him just fine.

[JKATHERINE]

Dell outsources their customer service to India as well, I found out. I think it is wrong and I hope that people will discontinue buying products from companies like this. It is ruining our economy... :(

[suziebee20]

I don't find her post one bit odd. This forum is VENT AND WHINE so she had every right to post this in this forum.. She is venting so this is where it belongs!!!!. And to find savings on this board is NOT the only reason we come here we come here to vent and whine and such.. Maybe you need to re read but vent and whine is all about!! :rolleyes:

I read this earlier and really have no opinion regarding this subject, but in sailakfan's defense, I believe this was moved, because when I first read this, it was in the Deals forum, and not V&W. :)

[Freebeemom]

sailakfan, I think it is a very interesting point you bring up...regarding the American economy....I don't agree with outsourcing, but what do people expect. People are constantly looking for deals and bargains. Mass merchandisers and those that shop there in general are just as responsible...but it does come down to the American public....why are we standing for our "god bless the usa" t shirts to be made in Mexico or China? I found it interesting that after Sept, 11th, when all the stores were carrying American flags for people to purchase, I only found ONE "Made in the USA" flag, and let me tell you...it wasn't from Wal Mart....those were all made in china.

I think that this person brings up a very interesting point. The american consumer...just like the American VOTER can do much to prevent this outsourcing. I never knew that JC Penny did this, nor did I know about Dell and the other companies....but I am not surprised at all..we are allowing this to happen...and I am just as guilty as the next bargain hunter!!



As a side note...I too, called Dell recently and an Indian man answered the phone. He tried to convince me he was from Texas....Ugh...

[GitchSup]

I work in the insurance industry and a lot of the companies support centers are now located in other countries. I am not sure why this trend but it is different. We first noticed it with Prudential, they outsourced the work to Dublan Ireland. Also, for people that want to make sure they buy american vehicles don't just go by the manufacture, if your VIN number starts with a 1 it is made in the USA, a 2 is made in Canada and a 3 is made in Mexico. Most people think all Fords, Chevs, Buicks etc are made here. Thanks for the post, it seems to be a trend all over to keep prices down for the consumers.

[ilvscooby]

I think Tracfone outsources to India. I called CS today and couldn't hardly understand the CS rep. She was spelling out her email address and on the letter "I" she said "as in India":D I hate calling Tracfone C.S I can never understand any of the people I have to talk to, I know they must also get frustrated with me always asking "what was that again?":D

[justme23]

Go to Warnings/FYI... I posted a thread I think called companies that outsource... it's a VERY long list and had some even I was suprised by.

Here's the link:

http://forums.bigbigsavings.com/showthread.php3?t=422670

[justme23]

CJhooney,
This is an inappropriate place to post such a comment. But here is my 2 cents on this issue. If outsourcing helps bring the cost down for the consumers then why are you crying out loud? The reason for you being on this board is to find out if there are any good savings out there and big companies are doing the same. And if you are really skilled and hardworking why should you complain. The reason big companies are outsourcing is mainly because they can find cheap and hardworking and trustworthy and dedicated workers. I am not posting this to start a war or something but I felt your post to be odd in this forum.
regards,
sailakfan

Because it DOESN'T lower prices. Prices are still going up, whether you or anybody else likes it or not. I personally know for a fact that it doesn't change the price of things cause my husband used to work for Earthlink... it was 19.99 a month when he was there... It went up to the same price as aol shortly after they outsourced and SHUT DOWN the call center he worked in (and 8 others, I might add... they shut down almost all of their American call centers). It then dropped to 21.95 when they first got their high speed access through Sprint (cause high speed is where the money is, but you'll notice, it was STILL 2 dollars more)... now it's only half of that cause MOST of their customer base is high speed... you can get it for 2 months free to get you through the door, but after that... it's regular price... I don't know what that is, but I can bet you it's the 'going market rate'... which is way more expensive now, for cable atleast, than it used to be... we had cable for 25 dollars a month 6 years ago... Comcast is now charging 50, our DSL through SBC, is about 30 dollars a month.

Edited to add: Freebeemom... he may very well have been in Texas. The company my hubby works for now does internal tech support for one of dells last remaining american call centers... and a lot of them really are indian (and other nationalities) right here in America.

[farren]

I'd rather pay more to keep the jobs in America.

[janelle]

We have a global economy now. Most things you buy have foreign parts. Made partly in other countries.

But if you get a person on the phone you can't understand ask to speak to the manager. My hubby had to do that. He coudn't understand the woman at all. Then they will know their call center has problems. Inform the main company. But the main company won't fire them unless they really can't solve the problem of being understood.

I don't know the solution. Maybe we need to start buying only from companies overseas. If American companies give the work to overseas people then American people should give our business to overseas companies. Buy your clothes from an overseas company online. :confused:

[Char]

:( :mad: Outsourcing is killing the American economy, just one of many factors. They say it pays fairly well, well, let it pay fairly well here in the USA.
There are people working all over for minimum wage... even if this only paid $6 an hour, I am sure there are PLENTY of Americans that would take the jobs.

I personally can't stand it when I call somewhere and can't understand the person on the other end of teh line, and it happens all the time. I just hung up on one the other day, I was calling about my Rite Aid single check rebates, I repeated my information to the person three or four times, even spelling my first name "R-I-T-A" - and, within one minute she again asked "Your first name", I said, "It's still Rita"... this happened three times, so I hung up. (I handled it at my local Rite Aid) I am not sure if the Rite Aid single check rebates uses outsourcing, but, if not, it should be a requirement that ANYONE employed as a phone person be able to speak (and understand) our country's language.

[YankeeMary]

Only in America can you call any company and they say "For english press 1" Hello of course I want english I am in America. Petty I know but drives me nuts.

[cookiegirl]

What frightens me is what kind of future will our children have. If all of these companies are outsourcing, what will be left here. No factories, no call centers, no customer service. You can bank on line pay bills online, shop on line. I imagine school may be all online someday.
Really what will be left. Just a thought.

[hotwire]

Paying higher prices for merchandise to keep jobs in the US, wont work. the problem is the EMPLOYEES! why should companies pay U.S workers $10-15 an hour, when they can send it to another country and pay them $2-3 an hour. (many) Americans think that because they make $50,000 a year, means that they should go out and buy a $200,000 house, or $60,000 car. we overspend, then b*tch because we dont make enough. (NOT referring to everyone). im not defending companies sending jobs overseas...this is just my opinion. and unfortunatly, i dont have a solution. i doubt many would want to take a paycut, to keep their jobs here.

EDITED, 3 days for going around the language filter, Tech

EDITED again... Permanent ban for registering 2 accounts - Tech

[bribella]

Paying higher prices for merchandise to keep jobs in the US, wont work. the problem is the EMPLOYEES! why should companies pay U.S workers $10-15 an hour, when they can send it to another country and pay them $2-3 an hour. (many) Americans think that because they make $50,000 a year, means that they should go out and buy a $200,000 house, or $60,000 car. we overspend, then b*tch because we dont make enough. (NOT referring to everyone). im not defending companies sending jobs overseas...this is just my opinion. and unfortunatly, i dont have a solution. i doubt many would want to take a paycut, to keep their jobs here.
Because if they outsource all these jobs overseas just because those people are happy making $2-3 an hour then there will not be AMERICANS buying their products because they don't have any money. We make about $50,000 a year and we cant afford a $200,000 house or a $60,000 car. I don't know where you live but where I live you can't buy a house for much less than $200,000. I'm not flaming you just sharing my opinion. You can barely live on minimum wage, which is about $7 an hour here in WA. But I suppose it depends on where you live, I happen to live in the 3rd highest taxed state in the nation.

[schsa]

The people who are getting these jobs in other countries are highly educated people who do not speak American English. They speak English but with accents that are hard for us to understand.

If you have a problem when you are connected to a company that oursources to India write to that company and complain. You won't see change if you don't voice an opinion.

I have no real opinion but it is happening in my industry as well. Call centers are popping up in every country around. At the same time, it will be a matter of time before those companies who do outsource determine if it is money well spent or if it is a money loosing proposition. Right now it sounds good because they can save money and satisfy their board of directors. But in 5 years they may have so many complaints that they might see that they are loosing money because they cannot provide good customer service.

[Willow]

CJhooney,
This is an inappropriate place to post such a comment. But here is my 2 cents on this issue. If outsourcing helps bring the cost down for the consumers then why are you crying out loud? The reason for you being on this board is to find out if there are any good savings out there and big companies are doing the same. And if you are really skilled and hardworking why should you complain. The reason big companies are outsourcing is mainly because they can find cheap and hardworking and trustworthy and dedicated workers. I am not posting this to start a war or something but I felt your post to be odd in this forum.
regards,
sailakfan


Why is this an inappropriate forum? :confused: This is vent/whine. Was it in a different forum before?

[cjhooney]

I appreciated reading all the replies today and apologize to anyone who may not agree with my rant.. I brought up the subject at work yesterday and we all decided to bouycot any company that uses these foreign outsourced callcenters to show our lack of support for these money saving tactics.. I think I'm a little sensitive because my DH worked for Goodyear and had his job sent to Mexico. It made a huge difference in our standard of living and he is 53 yrs old.. Last night, at work I received a call from my son. He watches my kids 7 and 12yrs while I work at a Credit Department for a large group of jewelery stores as a supervisor. My husband had dislocated his shoulder at work after slipping on a loose platform in front of his machine because he has finally gotten a job in another factory with sub standard conditions. He was in Nursing School ( to become an RN)for the last two years but we simply can't afford for him to work part time in a burn unit at a local children's hospital anymore. So you see, if I seem a little bent out of shape about this that would be understandable for those of us who have experienced the hopelessness of exported jobs. Thanks again for the support and I'm sorry for where I posted this but I just had to bring attention to what I had deemed a travesty against my industry. :(

[jan8262]

On the 60 minutes special about outsourcing, it also showed that the IRS outsources income tax returns!

It appeared that most of the EZ forms were sent to India to have the data entered in the computers etc.

It's not just large companies doing it, it is the federal government as well!

[cjhooney]

How sick is that? We're doomed! YIKES!!!

[Freebeemom]

Because it DOESN'T lower prices. Prices are still going up, whether you or anybody else likes it or not. I personally know for a fact that it doesn't change the price of things cause my husband used to work for Earthlink... it was 19.99 a month when he was there... It went up to the same price as aol shortly after they outsourced and SHUT DOWN the call center he worked in (and 8 others, I might add... they shut down almost all of their American call centers). It then dropped to 21.95 when they first got their high speed access through Sprint (cause high speed is where the money is, but you'll notice, it was STILL 2 dollars more)... now it's only half of that cause MOST of their customer base is high speed... you can get it for 2 months free to get you through the door, but after that... it's regular price... I don't know what that is, but I can bet you it's the 'going market rate'... which is way more expensive now, for cable atleast, than it used to be... we had cable for 25 dollars a month 6 years ago... Comcast is now charging 50, our DSL through SBC, is about 30 dollars a month.

Edited to add: Freebeemom... he may very well have been in Texas. The company my hubby works for now does internal tech support for one of dells last remaining american call centers... and a lot of them really are indian (and other nationalities) right here in America.



It may be going up for us...but also UP for companies...profit that is!!!!

[llbriteyes]

Here's another gripe from the same family of crap outsourcing is doing...

This is not an example of outsourcing, but of ripoff...

Kellogg's opened a plant in a small town here in Ohio. It created 143 jobs. Government says "Yay!" and gives them a huge tax break. Kellogg's decides to CLOSE the plant in another Ohio town, which loses us more than 300 jobs (my husband's included). They STILL hang on to that tax break because they've CREATED jobs.

What's wrong with this picture?

[cjhooney]

I personally have a problem with the tactics used by all the large corporations to make the very people (who provided them with the profits they sought and enjoyed)feel as though they are helpless in saving their own hind ends. We all need to be aware and empower ourselves, VOTE and be proactive, opinionated, pushy if need be.. write and call your local political figures, make them do what you hired them to do.. be your advocate!!

[cjhooney]

This is what I wrote:
Subject: General Inquiries
Topic: other
Comments: You have an India callcenter and I happen to be in the
Customer Service industry. I am very offended by this .. I am going to
think about my continuing business relationship with your company based
on your selection and the exporting of American employment. I may be too
much of a Patriot to put American dollars into the coffers of a company
who undervalues American workers. I will be notifying you of my
decision. This truly is intolerable.

[cjhooney]

this is theri reply:
Thank you for contacting us online.

Comments and criticisms from our customers call matters to our attention
and enable us to address each issue. *Customer concerns are always
forwarded to the department responsible for the issue. *The information
provided is a great help toward increasing the satisfaction of all
JCPenney customers. *
*
We hope you will give us the opportunity to continue to serve you.

JCPenney Internet Customer Service
HUH????

[guesswho!]

Businesses are in business to make & KEEP money, to pay out less & keep more. I guess that's why they outsource- to pay less for the services they need.

My main gripe is also with getting a CSR whom I cant understand & who isnt knowledgable. I like the idea of asking to speak to a mgr when this happens, that way a mgr will be aware of the problem & if mgrs are called enough over language prob's then it might get someone's attention!

No easy answers. Maybe those running for President need to address this issue more & take prode in having products truly made IN AMERICA!

JMHO & I'm done. LOL

[GitchSup]

I found this artical very interesting and thought I would pass it along. Its from the Council on Foreign Relations. I was not surpriesed to see that President Bush backs the outsourcing of jobs, but the statistical information was well worth the read. I do believe that we are headed towards a more global economy, which is fine, but it would be nice if they required the people hired to speak the language of the country they are suppost to be talking to.

http://www.cfr.org/background/trade_jobs.php