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Jolie Rouge
07-01-2004, 02:39 PM
Thursday, July 1, 2004 Posted: 12:47 PM EDT (1647 GMT)

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/LAW/07/01/schiavo.case.ap/story.schiavo2.jp
Terri Schiavo


www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/07/01/schiavo.case.ap/index.html

DUNEDIN, Florida (AP) -- An appeals court said Wednesday the parents of a woman at the center of a bitter right-to-die case may not intervene in the legal battle over a state law keeping her alive.

"Terri's Law," passed in October, allowed Gov. Jeb Bush to order the reinsertion of a feeding tube keeping Terri Schiavo alive. She has been in a persistent vegetative state for 14 years after collapsing from a chemical imbalance.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal upheld Circuit Judge W. Douglas Baird's ruling denying an attempt by Bob and Mary Schindler to join the fight over the law's constitutionality.

The appeals court didn't issue an opinion with the ruling.

Terri Schiavo's husband, Michael Schiavo, is suing the governor to have the law overturned. Bush is defending the law and the Schindlers wanted to join him as a party to the lawsuit.

The state Supreme Court will hear oral arguments August 31.

"There's no question that the governor is actively defending the lawsuit and there was no purpose to be served by adding additional parties," said Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos.

The ruling doesn't prevent the Schindlers from filing documents with the Supreme Court related to the case. The parents' lawyer, Pat Anderson, said the Schindlers' voices will be heard. "It would be a shame to shut them out of the process," she said.

For years, the Schindlers have battled Michael Schiavo as he has tried to have his wife's feeding tube removed. He argues she would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially. The Schindlers say they doubt their now 40-year-old daughter had any such end-of-life wishes and believe her condition could improve with therapy.

bell_peaches
07-01-2004, 03:12 PM
Go ahead and flame away. I agree with the husband. I would not want to be kept alive in that condition. I don't agree with the parents and Governor. JMO

DAVESBABYDOLL
07-01-2004, 03:41 PM
I wouldn't want to kept alive either if there was no chance of living a full quality life.However,I can see her parents side of this as well.I as a parent would not want my child to die.Even if I had all the medical proof in black and white layed in front of me i still probably would not accept the truth.Most parents I think would be that way.What parent would want to see their child die?

DAVESBABYDOLL
07-01-2004, 03:42 PM
I've always wondered if he had something to do with her being in the state she's in. I guess we'll never know, since she's not able to tell anyone.

I honestly think he just wants the money he will get when she does die. Otherwise, he would have given guardianship of her over to her parents LONG ago. It's obvious he doesn't care about her.... since he's been living with another woman for how long??

This is such a sad case. :(

Not only living with her but fathered children with her. And yes,it's about money too.

JKATHERINE
07-01-2004, 04:51 PM
Go ahead and flame away. I agree with the husband. I would not want to be kept alive in that condition. I don't agree with the parents and Governor. JMO

I agree.

ntgsmommy
07-01-2004, 05:07 PM
I've always wondered if he had something to do with her being in the state she's in. I guess we'll never know, since she's not able to tell anyone.

I honestly think he just wants the money he will get when she does die. Otherwise, he would have given guardianship of her over to her parents LONG ago. It's obvious he doesn't care about her.... since he's been living with another woman for how long??

This is such a sad case. :(
That's exactly what he wants.....the money--he doesn't care about her...ITA!

iowakat
07-01-2004, 07:46 PM
The husband has refused to allow any kind of rehibilitation treatment all these years and also refuses to give up guardianship. Terry was awarded a huge settlement and he's spent it all. Who knows if she could have gotten better or not if something had been done years ago? The parents suspect he had something to do with her illness/injury but they can't prove it.

belcherpi
07-02-2004, 07:47 AM
I'll never understand why he refused to get her help years ago. It may be too late now but if he had got help for her years ago, who knows, maybe her condition could have improved. If it had been a family member of mine, I would have tried anything and hoped it would have helped them. It's just a sad situation now.

jedmatters
07-02-2004, 02:34 PM
Her parents had no right to intervene. Once you marry, you place all the control in your spouse's hands whether your parents agree or not.
And, yes, the governor and her parents over stepped. No one knows if she told him prior to 14 years ago what she wanted, but him. And it was his call.
14 years is too long for this mess to have gone on. He had every right to do what he did, and the saddest part is that people punish him for his rights.
I hope he can have a reasonable life now, and be happy.

qwestgirl
07-02-2004, 04:00 PM
I have to agree. I live in Clearwater FL (about 5 miles from Dunedin, FL) and hear about this case all too often. In my opinion, I think that the parents are being selfish. It is time to let go and live on. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER...The husband has a right to move on if he so chooses.....Therapy will not help her.....And, for all of you who seem to think that the hubby is involved with her condition....? WRONG and proven so......

ntgsmommy
07-02-2004, 06:40 PM
I have to agree. I live in Clearwater FL (about 5 miles from Dunedin, FL) and hear about this case all too often. In my opinion, I think that the parents are being selfish. It is time to let go and live on. NOTHING LASTS FOREVER...The husband has a right to move on if he so chooses.....Therapy will not help her.....And, for all of you who seem to think that the hubby is involved with her condition....? WRONG and proven so......
Do you have any proof of that? :confused:

justme23
07-02-2004, 10:42 PM
I know a lot of ppl think this is about money for this man... and I don't know, perhaps it could be... but I have read a lot of articles from when this was big in the news whenever back that was that said that all the money he would have gotten has been used on her medical bills already and that he doesn't stand to get any of it. So maybe he really is just trying to find some peace for this woman... ppl do move on, just because WE would stay faithful to a spouse in this condition doesn't mean other ppl are SUPPOSED to.

Donnagg123
07-04-2004, 02:45 PM
Her parents had no right to intervene. Once you marry, you place all the control in your spouse's hands whether your parents agree or not.
And, yes, the governor and her parents over stepped. No one knows if she told him prior to 14 years ago what she wanted, but him. And it was his call.
14 years is too long for this mess to have gone on. He had every right to do what he did, and the saddest part is that people punish him for his rights.
I hope he can have a reasonable life now, and be happy.

I have to agree. I think that sometimes it is easy to spin a story the way you want it. I mean if everyone thinks about their own life if someone were to look at it from a certain angle it may look bad but you never know till you are actually living it.

Jolie Rouge
09-23-2004, 08:59 AM
'Terri's Law' struck down
Thursday, September 23, 2004 Posted: 11:35 AM EDT (1535 GMT)


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/LAW/09/23/shiavo.ap/tz..schiavo.jpg


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/LAW/09/23/shiavo.ap/story.schiavo2.jpg

Terri Schiavo has been in what doctors call a persistent vegetative state for 14 years.


TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -- The Florida Supreme Court on Thursday struck down a law that was rushed through the Legislature last fall to keep a severely brain-damaged woman hooked up to a feeding tube against her husband's wishes.

The unanimous court said the law that kept Terri Schiavo alive violated the separation of powers between the judicial branch and the legislative and executive branches.

Lower courts had ruled that Michael Schiavo could have the tube removed, but the Legislature passed the law to overrule the courts. Gov. Jeb Bush then used the law to order the tube reinserted. The court's decision came just a weeks after oral arguments.

Terri Schiavo, who lives in a Clearwater nursing home, can breathe on her own but relies on a feeding and hydration tube to live. Courts have concluded she is in a "persistent vegetative state," but maneuvering over her fate has produced a closely watched right-to-die fight.

The 40-year-old woman left no written instructions before suffering brain damage when her heart stopped beating 14 years ago. But in Florida a person's wishes must be honored even if they are expressed orally.

Schiavo's parents disagree with their son-in-law about her wishes, insisting their daughter wanted to live and could be helped with therapy. Courts have generally sided with Michael Schiavo, but parents Bob and Mary Schindler have won stays that have kept their daughter alive.


www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/09/23/shiavo.ap/index.html

nightrider127
09-24-2004, 03:06 PM
Nothing is going to help that poor woman. If her parents think she can get better with theraphy, they are living in a dream world.

I can understand how they feel, I really do. And it is tragic to have this happen to your child. But there comes a time when nothing else can be done for a person and you more or less have to give up.

Maybe I think like I do because of where I work. I have seen too many people live just to suffer. We have told our son not to keep us going by artificial means if we cannot have at least a near normal life. Myabe this is why I feel the way I do.

qwestgirl
09-24-2004, 05:50 PM
I agree 100%. I am in Florida, right down the street from where Terri is....She needs to be let go. I honestly feel that the parents need to let go...Let this battle end. If therapy was going to help her, it would have been started a long time ago. When you have all of the Doctors saying that it isn't going to help, let it go!! Let her go. Get rid of the selfishness!! For the love of GOD!! Her husband has a right to move on.......As does the family.....They are all broke for what??? This stupid fight over who has the final say? I think that would be the husband......Power of Attorney!!

suziebee20
09-24-2004, 06:01 PM
I've thought and thought about this and I think it's time for the family to let go, however starving her doesn't seem like the best way to go about it... but it looks like the only way, which is where I'm on the fence. I feel really bad for her and it was wrong of her husband to use the money for her therapy on his girlfriend. I know if me and Jaime were married and something happened to me, I wouldn't want to be in a vegitative state depending only on an IV line of food not being able to do anything anymore- I'd want him to fight my parents to stop them from keeping me hooked up to a machine, and I wouldn't blame him for moving on either.

Even if therapy was going to help her but her husband wasted the money, it seems way too late now. So, if the family is keeping her alive just so her husband doesn't get the money, the odds are against their favor because she's just going to lay there for who knows how long until eventually she dies on her own- which will give her husband the money anyway wouldn't it?

qwestgirl
09-24-2004, 06:51 PM
Well put.....

Jolie Rouge
01-24-2005, 10:42 AM
Fla. Loses Appeal in Terri Schiavo Case
(AP) - The Supreme Court refused Monday to reinstate a Florida law passed to keep a severely brain-damaged woman hooked to a feeding tube, clearing the way for it to be removed. How soon that would happen, however, was unclear. The Florida Supreme Court had struck down the law last fall, and the justices were the last hope for state leaders who defended the law in a bitter long running dispute over the fate of Terri Schiavo.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=US&cat=Assisted_Suicide

LazyTimeGirl
01-24-2005, 10:48 AM
Go ahead and flame away. I agree with the husband. I would not want to be kept alive in that condition. I don't agree with the parents and Governor. JMO

No flames from me -- I agree with you. She is married and therefore her parents don't have the right to make decisions for her. Her husband has that right. I believe that the parents are hoping in vain that they will get their daughter back. I believe the husband has his wife's best interests in his heart. Ask yourself if you would you want to be kept alive under those circumstances for such a long period of time?? I would not.

dangerousfem
01-24-2005, 11:16 AM
The only thing is.. I have nothing against him moving on.. if he wanted to move on, he should have given guardianship to her parents and moved on.. let her be their concern not his.. No one has stated a good reason why he hasn't.... he found someone else... has children with her.. so walk away and let Terry's parents handle it....
Also.. and this is the really big thing that bothers me.
They want to STARVE HER TO DEATH this is not quick, its not painless... it is cruel we put people in jail FOR STARVING THIER ANIMALS but its ok to Starve this woman????

janelle
01-24-2005, 07:45 PM
The only thing is.. I have nothing against him moving on.. if he wanted to move on, he should have given guardianship to her parents and moved on.. let her be their concern not his.. No one has stated a good reason why he hasn't.... he found someone else... has children with her.. so walk away and let Terry's parents handle it....
Also.. and this is the really big thing that bothers me.
They want to STARVE HER TO DEATH this is not quick, its not painless... it is cruel we put people in jail FOR STARVING THIER ANIMALS but its ok to Starve this woman????

You are so right here. I agree 100%. He should walk away and have his new life if he really wants it. Why stay unless it's for the money he may still get. He can divorce her. Let her parents be guardians. Son't fight parents over the life of their child. Any parent would feel the same way---his would.

I dont agree when one marries you give your spouse all control over you. What is you marry an abuser?

Jolie Rouge
01-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Kin of Brain-Damaged Woman at Crossroads
By VICKIE CHACHERE

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - With their legal options dwindling, the parents of brain-damaged Terri Schiavo renewed a plea to their son-in-law and legal adversary: divorce our daughter and give up the fight.

Hours after the U.S. Supreme Court said Monday it would not intervene in the dispute, attorneys for Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, asked Michael Schiavo to dissolve his marriage and leave them in control of her destiny. ``If there is any way for Michael to walk away... just please, please, please let them keep their daughter and just walk away,'' said David Gibbs, the Schindlers' attorney.

Michael Schiavo intends to withdraw the tubes that feed and hydrate his 41-year-old wife as soon as legally possible, maybe as early as next month. Terri Schiavo's parents have vowed to keep her alive. The Schindlers have three legal avenues still open to them: an appeal to a state appeals court in a request for a new trial based on recent comments by Pope John Paul II; a request that Michael Schiavo be removed as his wife's guardian; and a motion to set aside the original decision that Terri Schiavo did not want to be kept alive artificially.

That motion will go before Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer on Friday. Greer has twice granted Michael Schiavo permission to withdraw his wife's feeding tube. The latest legal blow to Terri Schiavo's parents came Monday when the U.S. Supreme Court refused to intervene in the case at the center of one of the nation's most bitter right-to-die disputes.

Without comment, the high court declined to hear an appeal brought by Gov. Jeb Bush's attorneys arguing the governor did not overstep his authority when he ordered Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reattached six days after it had been removed under court order. ``I'm disappointed, but not surprised,'' Bush said in Tallahassee.

The Florida Supreme Court had earlier ruled Bush's action were an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers between the executive and judicial branches. ``I really don't know what options we have available, but I will take whatever options I think there are,'' Bush said. ``I'm not sure what the legal options are, though.''

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, said his client was pleased with the high court's decision but is still concerned that the Schindlers will delay their daughter's death with more ``frivolous appeals.'' ``We are just hoping that the court sees through this abuse of the legal system and says no,'' Felos said. ``This case is not going to end until the courts summon up the courage and resolve to say we are not going to permit this abuse anymore.''


Terri Schiavo suffered severe brain damage 15 years ago when she collapsed in her home when a chemical imbalance, brought on by an eating disorder, caused her heart to stop beating. Michael Schiavo, who is engaged to another woman with whom he has two children, initially attempted experimental procedures in hopes of rehabilitating his wife, but later had a falling out with her family.

Terri Schiavo can breathe on her own but depends on a feeding tube to stay alive because she cannot swallow. She left no written directive. Her parents contend their son-in-law is trying to rush her death so he can inherit her estate and be free to marry again.

Ken Connor, who represented Bush in the legal challenge to Terri's Law, said he was disappointed in the court's refusal to hear the case involving ``the protection of an innocent life.'' Connor said the best legal hope for keeping Terri Schiavo alive now rests with the pending filings brought by her parents. And he said other branches of government need to consider if added protections for the disabled need to be in place.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which had joined with Michael Schiavo in challenging the governor's action, said Monday's court sends an important message to the governor and legislature not to attempt to thwart judicial decisions because of public pressure. ``I think this terrible, tragic case has been used for larger political purposes,'' said Howard Simon, the ACLU's executive director in Florida. ``That is the shameful history of this case.''


01/25/05 09:14

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050125%2F0916213988.htm&sc=1110

Jolie Rouge
01-25-2005, 09:25 PM
Schiavo's Ex-Guardian Calls for Tests
By VICKIE CHACHERE

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - A former court-appointed advocate for a brain-damaged woman at the center of a right-to-die battle says the woman should undergo new medical tests to put to rest lingering questions about whether she has any hope of recovery. But first her warring husband and parents would have to agree to drop their legal fight in favor of whichever side the independent medical experts support, the former advocate told The Associated Press.

The comments by Jay Wolfson, a University of South Florida professor, were his first on the case since he served as Terri Schiavo's guardian ad litem. They came as the legal options of Schiavo's parents have dwindled to two pending matters in state courts that have ruled against them before in their effort to keep her on a feeding tube.

The U.S. Supreme Court refused Monday to take up ``Terri's Law,'' the measure pushed by Gov. Jeb Bush in October 2003 to keep Schiavo alive. The Florida Supreme Court struck down the law as unconstitutional. Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under ``Terri's Law.'' He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides, but was unsuccessful.


Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead? "There is so much at stake here, not just for Terri, but for the issue,'' said Wolfson, who is both a doctor and a lawyer. ``If we were serious about addressing this, we would say, 'What are the interests of the parties and how can we use science, medicine and good law to take away from the clouding factors in this case?''' he said.


Attorneys for her husband, Michael Schiavo, did not return calls for comment Tuesday. A new independent medical review has been suggested, and rejected, by both sides at different stages in the case.


Barbara Weller, an attorney for parents Bob and Mary Schindler, said the offer of an independent medical panel was made by Michael Schiavo as late as the end of last year, but the Schindlers were hesitant to accept such a suggestion. ``The problem is finding truly neutral doctors,'' Weller said.


Terri Schiavo suffered severe brain damage 15 years ago when her heart stopped beating because of a chemical imbalance. She left no written directive and Michael Schiavo has said his wife would not have wanted to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that she has no cognitive abilities and say she communicates with them and reacts to her environment.


Terri Schiavo breathes on her own, but requires a feeding tube for nutrition and hydration.

01/25/05 18:56


http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050125%2F1858245453.htm&sc=1110

sweetstar
01-25-2005, 10:52 PM
I agree with all of the other posters who think the parents are being unbelievably selfish when they say she should be kept alive. She has been in a persistent vegetative state for 14 years!

And as for those who bash the husband for living with another woman with whom he has fathered kids... Do you guys realize that this has been 14 years? You all expect him to sit next to his essentially dead wife for 14 years? I understand this thing about the divorce, but maybe he doesn't want to divorce her...divorce means falling out of love, falling out of a relationship.

And about him just wanting the money... trust me guys, the money it's costing to keep this dead woman alive is a lot. I don't think you should ever MAKE someone live when it's fairly obvious that it won't do any good. Now THAT sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me.

qwestgirl
01-26-2005, 04:16 AM
I agree with you 100%, sweetstar....I live in Clearwater FL and hear about this EVERYDAY!!! The parents need to let go of their selfishness and let go of their daughter. NO ONE WANTS TO LIVE LIKE THAT!!

The husband has the right to move on with his life..These parents are making this a personal vendetta against the husband...At this point, I don't really think Terry has anything to do with the fighting...Now, it has become a war between the parents and hubby. Everybody wants to win, however, someone has to lose this war, as well....I think the parents will be waiving the white flag in the end!!

P.S. And yes, the money is gone!!

lassss
01-26-2005, 06:37 AM
Her parents had no right to intervene. Once you marry, you place all the control in your spouse's hands whether your parents agree or not.
And, yes, the governor and her parents over stepped. No one knows if she told him prior to 14 years ago what she wanted, but him. And it was his call.
14 years is too long for this mess to have gone on. He had every right to do what he did, and the saddest part is that people punish him for his rights.
I hope he can have a reasonable life now, and be happy.

ITA ! the woman is NOT a minor....she was an adult and married and I agree that the husband should make the call, not her parents. I know it is a sad time all around but the parents need to let go.

Jolie Rouge
01-26-2005, 07:59 AM
Do you guys realize that this has been 14 years? You all expect him to sit next to his essentially dead wife for 14 years? I understand this thing about the divorce, but maybe he doesn't want to divorce her...divorce means falling out of love, falling out of a relationship.

The man is engaged to marry another woman with whom he has two children. I think he has already passed the point of "falling out of love; falling out of a relationship." :rolleyes: My question is - how old are these children ? I had the impression ( and I am sure someone can sorrect me if I am wrong ... ) that he was already "involved" with the "other woman" when Terri's ordeal began.

dangerousfem
01-26-2005, 08:11 AM
once again.. you are talking about STARVING A LIVING, BREATHING, FEELING, HELPLESS PERSON TO DEATH.. and you guys think that is ok?? Do you have kids? If so picture them there instead of Terri.. now is it still ok? He has NO REASON not to divorce her.. none.. unless he stands to gain from her death. He has been living with another woman for years.. has kids with her.. why can't he divorce Terri?

Jolie Rouge
01-26-2005, 08:34 AM
once again.. you are talking about STARVING A LIVING, BREATHING, FEELING, HELPLESS PERSON TO DEATH.. and you guys think that is ok?? Do you have kids? If so picture them there instead of Terri.. now is it still ok? He has NO REASON not to divorce her.. none.. unless he stands to gain from her death. He has been living with another woman for years.. has kids with her.. why can't he divorce Terri?


Michael Schiavo intends to withdraw the tubes that feed and hydrate his 41-year-old wife as soon as legally possible ....


The U.S. Supreme Court refused Monday to take up ``Terri's Law,'' the measure pushed by Gov. Jeb Bush in October 2003 to keep Schiavo alive. The Florida Supreme Court struck down the law as unconstitutional. Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under ``Terri's Law.'' He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides, but was unsuccessful. Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead?


Terri Schiavo breathes on her own, but requires a feeding tube for nutrition and hydration.




I don't think you should ever MAKE someone live when it's fairly obvious that it won't do any good. Now THAT sounds like cruel and unusual punishment to me.


Appearently it is not obvious.

You don't think it is "cruel and unusual" to remove all sources of food & water and allow someone to slowly starve to death ? If you had a sick animal and allowed it to die in such a manner you would be up on charges so fast it would make your head spin. At least the Dutch use medication and sedation to effect euthenasisa

firechick
01-26-2005, 10:03 AM
This whole case has me heartbroken fro TERRI!!!! I agree that this has become a was between the parents and the husband. HOWEVER I don't believe it should be legal to starve a living human being to death. INHO this is now worse than killing an innocent child who can't defend themselves! Makes me sick that people think its okay to starve someone. Micheal had been having an affair with this other woman when Terri was fine. Hell, I'd have an eating diorder as well as a million other things if I knew my husband had been involved with another woman. He makes me want to puke thinking that he kill his "wife" so he can marry this other woman. The man could divorce her and be done with it. As far as someone saying he feels divorce is a falling out of love. He didn't love Terri when he was procreating with another woman!!!!!!!! Put yourselves in this moms shoes, would you try to fight her husband to let go??? YES you would DON'T LIE!! WE ALL WOULD!!! I would not want to live this way either but I see the videos of the womans change of demeanor when she is visited by her family. I don't believe she is brain dead. Sorry!! Flame away if you feel you must. I have my flame retardent suit on....

babydoll_jen
01-26-2005, 12:18 PM
What about their marriage vows? "Till death do us part". He took those vows and nowhere in those vows does it say "hey, if something horrible happens to you, where your body doesn't function right, I have the right to kill you and move on with my life." If he is soooo worried about falling out of love and ending the relationship, let her parents take over her care. And the statement about her not wanting to live that way, how do we know she really said that and that he isn't making the whole thing up? I mean, come on. If the guy really did have this lady friend for a while and fathered children with her and saw $$$ signs, we would all assume that he was doing it for the money. And as far as her parents go, this is "THEIR" child, not his. I don't think there are a lot of us here who had to go through this situation, so we don't know how we would react under these circumstances. She has been their child longer than she has been his wife. Let her parents care for her. That is why they became parents, isn't it? It is their one duty in life to care for their children, so let them.


Also, I thought if you were in a vegetative state, that nothing functioned in your body. I mean she is breathing on her own, isn't she? There are a lot of people in this world who depend on a feeding tube to live.

YNKYH8R
01-26-2005, 01:42 PM
Now I don’t know the whole story. But I will say this. 14 years? I mean come on. What exactly are they holding out or onto for? Sorry to be so blunt but the woman that everyone knew is gone has been for a while she is the equivalent of a breathing piece of meat with no consciousness. People say how could you let your child go? I say how could you let your child live like that? It isn’t even life. She doesn’t play, work, socialize, vote, nothing. She does nothing. The only thing left is the outer shell, the body. The mind is what we truly love about people the body just holds the mind. In her case the mind is gone; everything they loved is gone only the body remains. I think it is cruel to the parents and all who loved her to keep the body alive. Especially for 14 years. If my child was in a position where I would never be able to enjoy his/her company the way that I am used to I would let go. What is the sense? What if her parents and husband passed away on the same day tomorrow? What do they do then? How long do you let a living corpse live? Starving her to death I don’t like. There are other human ways. Regardless of whatever family situation the husband is in it is not fair. When I say I do not want to be left alive on tubes it isn’t because I don’t want medical costs to mount or I don’t want to be on display for the world to see and become a spectacle it is because I want my loved ones to move on. The person that lived in her died 14 years ago let her go……

Jolie Rouge
01-26-2005, 02:15 PM
This is where I have a problem with this - determining someone's "Quality of Life" as a standard for euthanasia.

I have a niece who is severely autistic. She rarely communicates with us, being lost in her own world. At 15, she has a working vocabulary of about 15 words, speaks maybe 5, wears diapers, can not feed or dress herself ( she still eats baby food because she also has problems swallowing ); uses a wheel chair because she can only walk short distances. Should she be "put down" ? When her caregiver is "entitled" to her estate - is it grounds for her death by starvation because her continued existance is "inconvient" for someone else ?

YNKYH8R
01-26-2005, 02:47 PM
We are not talking about inconvience here. We are talking about futility. Your neice has a personality, and is developing. This woman is not, she is a blank slate. She will never get better. Her situation will never change. She is beyond mental comprehension. Like most children who learn and grow mentally this person no longer registers. If you had a blank VHS cassette that was broken you couldn't record on and it won't play the movies you saved on it. Do you save it knowing you'll never see the images again?

Again starvation is cruel and unusual.

Jolie Rouge
01-26-2005, 03:06 PM
We are not talking about inconvience here. We are talking about futility. Your neice has a personality, and is developing. This woman is not, she is a blank slate. She will never get better. Her situation will never change. She is beyond mental comprehension. Like most children who learn and grow mentally this person no longer registers. If you had a blank VHS cassette that was broken you couldn't record on and it won't play the movies you saved on it. Do you save it knowing you'll never see the images again?

Again starvation is cruel and unusual.


Angel ( my niece ) is 15 years old - her mental & intellectual age is between 6 & 8 months. She will never progress past this point. She is comparable to that "blank slate" except nothing can ever be writen there; her situation will not change; she will not get better. They have taken her to uncountable "specialists" in several states and three countries.

So - do we discard her as broken ?


Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under ``Terri's Law.'' He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides, but was unsuccessful. Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead?

Appearently the question has yet to be addressed.



It is a slippery slope when we allow "Quality of Life" to determine a person's right to live.

YNKYH8R
01-26-2005, 09:36 PM
I can't believe that you would compare "vegetable like state" to autism. Even if your niece is comperable to a 6-8 month old that is still not a blank slate. her parents hoped for the best when having her. Terri's condition was put upon her in her adult life. It has been this way for 14 years no change. You can't really call it quality of life when there is no life. Her autonomic system apears to function allowing her to breathe and regulate blood flow that is it. Your neice is so much more than that. I imagine she gets around, has feelings, her own thoughts, even likes and dislikes. I will bet you she can even recognize her parents and show emotion for them. Well guess what Terri can't. She is not in a coma. She is living flesh with on mind. Comparing her to an autisic person is an insult to autism itself. She (Terri) has conciousness but no realization of self. And if she did it would have brought itself around by now. I feel for her parents I really do. They have allowed this to go on for so long they can't let go. All they see is their daughter. It is almost as bad as sending a loved one to a taxidermist so that you can see them whenever you want. A shell of her former self. Sad truely sad.

Jolie Rouge
01-27-2005, 09:33 AM
LOL - did you realise you contradicted yourself ??


I agree that the family ( both sides ) have allowed this to spin out of control - but how could they not ? But this issue is now about more then Terri herself. It sets legal precedence for euthanasia for "Quality of Life".

YNKYH8R
01-27-2005, 02:39 PM
What do you mean I contradicted myself? Where?

gingerswit
01-27-2005, 09:34 PM
poor poor woman. Being kept alive because her parernts can't let go. So what that the guy is seeing someone elses! I don't know about anyone here but if my brain turned to mush (and I have heard from docs that she is brain dead, don't know where but it was on tv lol) I would want my hubby to be happy and move one. That is if I was the way she is. Her poor soul is probably yearning to be free. Her hubby loves her and wants to do what is best for her. I would be ANGRY if my hubby just up and left. He knows I would not want to be a vegtable and be hooked up to machines. I assume this is the case here. I am SICK that the hubby is made out to be a vilian and her parents could let this HUMAN being just sit there for 14 years! I don't see love just a lot of selfishness! I am glad if that were to happen to me that my parents wouldn't intervine and force their beliefs on me. She has been suffering for 14 years because of all this. Free her soul I say and let the guy do what is right for his wife.

JKATHERINE
01-28-2005, 09:18 AM
I agree. This has gone on far too long. I, too, am pretty disturbed that Terri's condition was compared to someone with Autism. I know and have worked with a few Autistic children. Although they arent' all able to fully function in our world, they do have thier own thoughts, feelings and can control at least some part of their actions, movements, etc. Many autistic children are thought to be brilliant...even geniuses. Terri Schiavo is completely brain dead. She doesn't think, eat, feel or speak. She doesn't recognize those around her. The only thing she does is breath and that is only because breathing is innate--it is something we do without even thinking about it.

It's time to let the poor woman go and let her husband move on with his life. I know if this were me, I would be furious with Adam for letting me live (if you can call it that) like this for so long AND for not moving on with his life and finding some HAPPINESS. Life is much too short for anyone to spend it this way.

ntgsmommy
01-28-2005, 11:04 AM
Terri Schiavo Is Very Much
Alive And Responsive
Contact Keith Brickell
Gibbs Law Firm Media Director
kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com
1-6-5

PINELLAS PARK, Fl (Christian Wire Service) -- Terri Schiavo is very much alive and responsive. That is what lawyers for Robert and Mary Schindler saw when they visited Terri Schiavo in her room at the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, FL, on Christmas Eve.

Attorney David Gibbs III and Attorney Barbara Weller, of Gibbs Law Firm in Seminole, FL, took on the role of lead counsel for the Schindlers in September of 2004. The Christmas Eve visit was the first time either of the attorneys had been able to see Terri since taking the case. They made the visit with Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and members of her immediate family.

Counsel was able to personally verify the fact that Terri is not in a coma or even in a comatose state. She was purposefully interactive, curious and expressive with her parents during the entire 45-minute visit. Mrs. Weller wrote a moving narrative describing in detail her reactions and observations during this visit. (Mrs. Weller's narrative is available online at http://www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html.)

To arrange an interview with Attorney David Gibbs III or Attorney Barbara Weller contact Keith Brickell,Gibbs Law Firm Media Director, 727-399-8300, 727-458-4824 cell, kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com

The Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation is the official organization responsible for speaking on behalf of the Schindler family. For more information and background on the case, visit the foundation's website at www.terrisfight.org.

Contact: Keith Brickell,
Gibbs Law Firm Media Director,
727-399-8300, 727-458-4824 cell,
kbrickell@gibbsfirm.com

Jolie Rouge
01-28-2005, 11:47 AM
I agree. This has gone on far too long. I, too, am pretty disturbed that Terri's condition was compared to someone with Autism. I know and have worked with a few Autistic children. Although they arent' all able to fully function in our world, they do have thier own thoughts, feelings and can control at least some part of their actions, movements, etc. Many autistic children are thought to be brilliant...even geniuses.

I was not comparing Terri to Autistic children in general. I was comparing her with one special person - My niece, Angel. Your descriptions above do not refer to Angel nor to her case. My concern is the legal precedence that is being set. The person who would most profit from her estate is the person who gets to pull the tubes. You don't see a conflict of interest here ??



Terri Schiavo is completely brain dead. She doesn't think, eat, feel or speak. She doesn't recognize those around her. The only thing she does is breath and that is only because breathing is innate--it is something we do without even thinking about it.

Refer to the article posted above. The person telling eveyone that she is a veg is the person profiting from her death - or people on his payroll - or people who have an adgenda beyond Terri herself. They refuse to let anyone else see her. Don't you have to ask yourself "WHY" ?



It's time to let the poor woman go and let her husband move on with his life. I know if this were me, I would be furious with Adam for letting me live (if you can call it that) like this for so long AND for not moving on with his life and finding some HAPPINESS. Life is much too short for anyone to spend it this way.

Seeing that the man has two children by his mistress - I mean fiance' - I think he has "gotten on with his life" already.

Katt
01-28-2005, 01:16 PM
For me, I wouldn't want to live like that. But, I don't believe she can be fully classified as brain dead either.

Breathing doesn't just happen. It is controlled by the brain just as other functions are. Where the accident occurs is what determines what stops working. For example someone has a brain injury that involves a specific region, then that region stops working. (such as in a stroke) Breathing IS controlled by the brain. The region is directly at the top of the spinal cord. If an injury occurs there, the body cannot signal itself to breath, and therefore the person would be on a vent. That doesn't mean the person can't have thoughts, feelings etc. They just wouldn't be able to breath on their own.

Now that that part is cleared up...she can breath on her own, but that doesn't mean the rest of her brain is functioning. It also doesn't mean that it isn't. She could still have thoughts etc, without a way to express them due to loss of body funtioning. I haven't bothered to read much on it, because I don't read the articles that get posted on the board..but, have they done brain function tests? Is there evidence of brain activity? If not, then she needs to be let go.

I stay out of this mess because these threads are always a fight waiting to happen. The only part I can judge is how I would feel in this case. I would NOT agree to cutting off the feeding tube of my child to watch them starve to death. However, I also could not bare to watch my child suffer like that. It's a very difficult situation. I also don't see why the husband just won't leave her and let someone else have the burden he so obviously wants to escape.

I guess the smart thing to do would be to have a living will stating your wishes. Then, messes like this could be avoided.

Jolie Rouge
01-28-2005, 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by JKATHERINE : Terri Schiavo is completely brain dead. She doesn't think, eat, feel or speak. She doesn't recognize those around her.


Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under ``Terri's Law.'' He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides, but was unsuccessful. Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead?


Appearently the question has yet to be addressed.



Counsel was able to personally verify the fact that Terri is not in a coma or even in a comatose state. She was purposefully interactive, curious and expressive with her parents during the entire 45-minute visit.


hmmm ... seems there is a difference of opinion worth investigating.

Michael Schiavo intends to withdraw the tubes that feed and hydrate his 41-year-old wife as soon as legally possible ....

mrsswede
01-28-2005, 08:26 PM
Doesn't appear to be all about the money, IMO.
From our local news channel:

Proposed deals on Schiavo settlement revealed
Friday, January 28, 2005

Terri Schiavo is staying at a Clearwater assisted living facility.

For the very first time, details of a proposed settlement in the highly controversial Terri Schiavo were made public Friday.

Bottom line, Bob and Mary Schindler, Terri Schiavo's parents, said they want to take full responsibility for their daughter if her husband would just walk away.

The proposed settlement would give Bob and Mary Schindler full custody of their daughter, Terri, who has been in a persistent vegetative state for the past 14 years.

They've always said their daughter has a chance at recovery if given the chance.

The Schindlers said in return, Michael Schiavo would be able to legally divorce Terri, and start a new life with his girlfriend and two children.
Michael Schiavo rejected the settlement offered by Terri's parents last October.



The Schindlers said Michael Schiavo could also keep any leftover money from Terri's estate and have rights to any future book or movie deals.

Michael Schiavo has rejected the conditions of the Schindler's settlement offer.

"We're trying to give Terri back to her family," said Bob Schindler. "We love Terri, we believe she can be rehabilitated and we'll fund that now."

That settlement was given and rejected by Michael Schiavo several months ago in October.

But the Schindlers said the offer is still on the table.

Meanwhile in court today, the Schindlers again asked the judge to stop Michael Schiavo's doctors from removing Terri's feeding tube.

That removal however won't come until every legal appeal has been exhausted.

Exactly when that will happen is anyone's guess.



http://www.baynews9.com/content/36/2005/1/28/69655.html

ntgsmommy
01-28-2005, 08:55 PM
I found this interesting as well........


Most Common Questions and Answers

If Terri hasn't recovered after all these years of therapy, why not let go?

Terri hasn't had meaningful therapy since 1991, but many credible physicians say she can benefit from it.

Why can't Terri just divorce?

Terri's husband/guardian speaks for her. She cannot divorce without his permission

Does Terri have an advanced directive or any wishes about her healthcare?

Terri never signed any directive or living will and there is no evidence that she foresaw her present situation.

Why do Terri's family fight to keep her alive? Shouldn't they let her husband decide?

Terri's husband has started another family and probably has gone on with his life. Terri's family want to provide her therapy and a safe home.

Is Terri receiving life support?

Not in the traditional sense. Terri only receives food and fluids via a simple tube.

Isn't removing her tube a natural and dignified way to die?

No. Dehydration and starvation cause horrific effects and are anything but peaceful. Read more here.



Most common misconceptions about Terri's situation

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

MYTH: Terri does not need rehabilitation
FACT: Florida Statute 744.3215 Rights of persons determined incapacitated:

(1) A person who has been determined to be incapacitated retains the right
(i) To receive necessary services and rehabilitation.

This is a retained right that a guardian cannot take away. Additionally, it does not make exception for PVS patients. Terri has illegally been denied rehabilitation - as many nurses have sworn in affidavits.

MYTH: Removal of food was both legal and court-ordered.
FACT: The courts had only allowed removal of Terri's feeding tube, not regular food and water. Terri's husband illegally ordered this. The law only allows the removal of "life-prolonging procedures," not regular food and water:

Florida Statute 765.309 Mercy killing or euthanasia not authorized; suicide distinguished. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act or omission to end life other than to permit the natural process of dying.

MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.
FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri’s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri’s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri’s feeding removed. Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Dr. Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri. Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself “Dr. Death”, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.

MYTH: This is just a family battle over money.
FACT: In 1992, Terri was awarded nearly one million dollars by a malpractice jury and an out-of-court malpractice settlement which was designated for future medical expenses. Of these funds, less than $50,000 remains today. The financial records revealing how Terri’s medical fund money is managed are SEALED from inspection. Court records, however, show that Judge Greer has approved the spending down of Terri’s medical fund on Schiavo’s attorney’s fees - though it was expressly awarded to Terri for her medical care. Schiavo’s primary attorney, George Felos, has received upwards of $400,000 dollars since Schiavo hired him. This same attorney, at the expense of Terri’s medical fund, publicly likened Terri to a “houseplant” and has used Terri’s case on national television to promote his newly published book.

MYTH: Michael Schiavo volunteered to donate the balance of the inheritance to charity.
FACT: In October, 1998, Schiavo’s attorney proposed that, if Terri’s parents would agree to her death by starvation, Schiavo would donate his inheritance to charity. The proposal came after a court-appointed Guardian Ad Litem cited Schiavo’s conflict of interest since he stood to inherit the balance of Terri’s medical fund upon her death. This one and only offer stated “if the proposal is not fully accepted within 10 days, it shall automatically be withdrawn”. Naturally, Terri’s parents immediately rejected the offer.

MYTH: Terri's Medical Trust fund has been used to care for her.
FACT: The following expenditures have been paid directly from Terri's Medical Trust fund, with the approval of Judge George Greer:
Summary of expenses paid from Terri’s 1.2 Million Dollar medical trust fund (jury awarded 1992)
NOTE: In his November 1993 Petition Schiavo alleges the 1993 guardianship asset balance as $761,507.50

Atty Gwyneth Stanley
Atty Deborah Bushnell
Atty Steve Nilson
Atty Pacarek
Atty Richard Pearse (GAL)
Atty George Felos
$10,668.05
$65,607.00
$7,404.95
$1,500.00
$4,511.95
$397,249.99

Other

1st Union/South Trust Bank
$55,459.85

Michael Schiavo
$10,929.95

Total $545,852.34

Donnagg123
01-30-2005, 03:40 PM
For those wondering why withold food and water when dying, I have information from my Nursing book as to why this is done:
"Contrary to earlier teaching, hydration is no longer advised when a terminally ill client facing imminent death is dehydrated. Although many nurses have been taught that dehydration causes suffering and that skilled care requires hydration, it is necessary to readjust this thinking. Research has shown that terminally ill clients in end-stage dehydration experience less discomfort than clients recieving medical hydration at that stage. Hydration needlessly extends the dying process. Witholding artificial hydration and nutrition from an individual in an irreversable coma (for example) does not bring on a destructive state but rather permits an already existing fatal condition to take its natural course. When death is imminent, the moral responsibility to prolong life is outweighed by not unnecessarily burdening the dying process".

stresseater
01-30-2005, 09:22 PM
Research has shown that terminally ill clients in end-stage dehydration experience less discomfort than clients recieving medical hydration at that stage.
So if we deprive her of moisture then she won't feel the starvation pains as bad. :confused: :confused: :mad: I'm thinking if we give her food and water then she won't feel it at all. Face it, it is barbaric to starve someone to death even if they are unable to cry for help. :mad:

Jolie Rouge
01-30-2005, 09:38 PM
For those wondering why withold food and water when dying, I have information from my Nursing book as to why this is done:
"Contrary to earlier teaching, hydration is no longer advised when a terminally ill client facing imminent death is dehydrated. .... Witholding artificial hydration and nutrition from an individual in an irreversable coma (for example) does not bring on a destructive state but rather permits an already existing fatal condition to take its natural course. When death is imminent, the moral responsibility to prolong life is outweighed by not unnecessarily burdening the dying process".


Terri doesn't seem to be in an irrevesable coma - so this critieria would not apply.

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.



Terri Schiavo Is Very Much Alive And Responsive
1-6-5

PINELLAS PARK, Fl (Christian Wire Service) -- Terri Schiavo is very much alive and responsive. That is what lawyers for Robert and Mary Schindler saw when they visited Terri Schiavo in her room at the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, FL, on Christmas Eve.

Attorney David Gibbs III and Attorney Barbara Weller, of Gibbs Law Firm in Seminole, FL, took on the role of lead counsel for the Schindlers in September of 2004. The Christmas Eve visit was the first time either of the attorneys had been able to see Terri since taking the case. They made the visit with Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and members of her immediate family.

Counsel was able to personally verify the fact that Terri is not in a coma or even in a comatose state. She was purposefully interactive, curious and expressive with her parents during the entire 45-minute visit. Mrs. Weller wrote a moving narrative describing in detail her reactions and observations during this visit. (Mrs. Weller's narrative is available online at http://www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html.)

Jolie Rouge
02-16-2005, 09:02 PM
Judge Won't Reconsider Schiavo Ruling

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - A judge in a contentious right-to-die battle has refused to reconsider his ruling allowing a man to remove the feeding tube keeping his brain-damaged wife alive.

Circuit Court Judge George Greer rejected arguments by Terri Schiavo's parents that their daughter's due process rights were violated because she never had her own attorney.

Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, have waged a long fight in several courts to prevent their daughter's husband, Michael, from removing the feeding tube.

Friday's decision could pave the way for the tube to be removed in the coming weeks. A stay preventing the removal is to be lifted Feb. 22, according to Michael Schiavo's lawyer.

Terri Schiavo, 41, suffered severe brain damage 15 years ago and some doctors have ruled she is in a persistent vegetative state; others believe she does have some mental abilities.


David Gibbs, the attorney representing the Schindlers, did not immediately return a request for comment.



02/12/05 06:40

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-PLS&idq=/ff/story/0001/20050212/0641734140.htm&ewp=ewp_news_schiavo&photoid=20031014NYET254

Jolie Rouge
02-16-2005, 09:08 PM
Save Terri Schiavo
By Terence P. Jeffrey

Gov. Jeb Bush and the Florida Legislature may not know it, but they acted in the spirit of Sir Philip Sidney when they tried to save the life of Terri Schiavo. When Sidney, a young warrior and poet in the court of Queen Elizabeth I, was mortally wounded in battle, legend has it he passed up a drink of water in deference to a common soldier who lay nearby in the throes of death. "Thy need is greater than mine," Sidney told the dying man.

After his own lingering death, Sidney's body was brought back to England, where he was given a state funeral and held up by his countrymen as a model of virtue to be emulated by all.

Today, Terri's husband, Michael Schiavo, is trying to take an action that would reverse Sidney's. Rather than provide water to a stranger about to die, he wants to deny water to his own wife who persists in living. Since 1998, contrary to the wishes of Terri's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, Mr. Schiavo has been seeking to remove the nutrition-and-hydration tube that sustains Terri, who became mentally incapacitated 15 years ago when her heart temporarily stopped beating.

On Sept. 17, 2003, a Florida court authorized Mr. Schiavo to remove his wife's tube. On Oct. 15, 2003, the tube was removed and Terri began a slow death by dehydration. Six days later, Gov. Bush signed a law enacted by the Florida Legislature allowing him to issue a one-time stay of the court order that authorized removal of Terri's nutrition-and-hydration tube. Mr. Bush ordered the tube restored, and Terri is alive today.

This week, however, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to accept Mr. Bush's appeal of a Florida Supreme Court decision that overturned what became known as Terri's Law. Other litigation in the case will continue, but so far the courts have consistently sided with starving and dehydrating Terri Schiavo.

The courts, however, are wrong. And the Florida Legislature should not stop fighting them.

The disputants in Terri Schiavo's case disagree on her condition and prognosis. As noted in the petition Gov. Bush made to the Supreme Court, some say "Terri Schiavo is not actually in a persistent vegetative state because she is able to interact with her visitors and caregivers." But the key point is not disputed: Terri is unlikely to die soon unless deprived of food and water. Indeed, the purpose of depriving her of food and water is to kill her.

This is not about withholding desperate and disproportionate medical treatment from a patient destined to die of a terminal illness. Ironically, if Terri were sure to die of disease tomorrow, the purpose of denying her water today would disappear.

At its core, this case is about whether one person can make a judgment that another person's "quality" of life justifies taking that other person's life. What is at stake for society here was explained in a brief presented to the Supreme Court by the Catholic Medical Association (Terri Schiavo is a Catholic), which cited a letter published last March by Pope John Paul II saying it is wrong to withhold food and water even from someone believed to be in a persistent vegetative state. "However, it is not enough to reaffirm the general principle according to which the value of a man's life cannot be made subordinate to any judgment of its quality expressed by other men," the pope said. "It is necessary to promote the taking of positive actions as a stand against pressures to withdraw hydration and nutrition as a way to put an end to the lives of these patients."

The principle the pope defends is not new. It is the same principle President Bush defended when he addressed the March for Life via phone on Monday. "We know that in a culture that does not protect the most dependent," Mr. Bush said, "the handicapped, the elderly, the unloved or simply inconvenient become increasingly vulnerable."

And it is the same principle Sir Philip Sidney acted on when he sent his drink of water to a dying soldier. All human life is sacred because God made it so, and no man can change that.

Florida's Legislature should not surrender this principle to the courts. Inspired by Terri Schiavo, it should enact a new law. This time, it should simply say: You may not kill a person through starvation or dehydration.

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20050128-083216-2151r.htm

Jolie Rouge
02-17-2005, 09:47 AM
Mom wins order to keep infant on life support
Appeals court keeps infant on life support
Thursday, February 17, 2005 Posted: 9:32 AM EST (1432 GMT)

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A mother fighting to keep a hospital from removing her infant son from the ventilator that has kept him alive since birth has won another temporary restraining order.

The 1st Court of Appeals reinstated the order keeping 4-month-old Sun Hudson on life support Wednesday, just hours after a probate court judge lifted the order. A hearing was set for Tuesday.

The dispute centers on the legal standard over hospital care in Texas. Under state law, a hospital must continue care if there is a reasonable probability that another hospital will admit the patient.

Texas Children's Hospital officials have said no treatment can save Sun, and they want to remove him from life support. Hospital lawyers said state officials have contacted almost 40 facilities and none have been willing to care for the infant. But the boy's mother, Wanda Hudson, believes her son will recover. Her attorney argued there is a reasonable chance another hospital would take the child.

Sun suffers from thanatophoric dysplasia, a genetic condition characterized by extremely short limbs, a narrow chest, small ribs and underdeveloped lungs. Infants usually are stillborn or die shortly after birth from respiratory failure. There have been rare documented cases of survivors, however. "He is slowly suffocating to death because his lungs lack the capability to support his body," the hospital said.

Hudson hasn't seen her son in more than a month, but says she believes she communicates with him telepathically. "Sun is going to live forever," she said. "As long as the Sun is in the sky he will live. I don't believe in death."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/17/life.support.fight.ap/index.html

-------------

:( (How very sad ... ) :(

CatrinaF25
02-18-2005, 09:41 PM
//////

Jolie Rouge
02-18-2005, 09:59 PM
Catrina - again, to clarify, I was not comparing a generic person in a coma to a generic child with autism. I was comparing the case of Terri to my niece Angel. My fear is that this case could set legal precedence in which the person to inheirit an estate is able to euthanis a person based on "Quality of Life". It is a very slippery slope.

CatrinaF25
02-18-2005, 11:10 PM
//////////

ntgsmommy
02-19-2005, 09:18 AM
i understand . I guess i am touchy because my son is severly disable and some would say he will not have a good quality of life. hell i've been told it! even by Dr's! what one person Judges as a good quality life is not the same as another. and who are we to make that choice? We are NOT God and should not act as it. from what I understand on this case is she IS still responding to her family can get angry sad and happy. this also scares the crap out of me to think someone could have my sons life in their hands. its not right. I dont know the answer to this case and wont try to guess it as its not my place. I will however pray for this family and pray God gives them comfort.In the end it is in Gods hands .

Catrina....I know how you feel--my son is the same way... I just think what would happen if I was to die in car crash or some other way...it seems other people could hold that answer in their hands about whether or not to end his life. This case is really starting to hit home because if they could do this to Terri, they could do it to all people..and they are people not vegatables or whatever mean people refer them as....they breath, laugh, cry, they have feelings....sorry, I took over your thread....I'll end now...e-mail me if you want to discuss our son's.....shelovesnathan@yahoo.com :)

MusicfanAnnie
02-19-2005, 09:36 AM
This whole case has me heartbroken fro TERRI!!!! I agree that this has become a was between the parents and the husband. HOWEVER I don't believe it should be legal to starve a living human being to death. INHO this is now worse than killing an innocent child who can't defend themselves! Makes me sick that people think its okay to starve someone. Micheal had been having an affair with this other woman when Terri was fine. Hell, I'd have an eating diorder as well as a million other things if I knew my husband had been involved with another woman. He makes me want to puke thinking that he kill his "wife" so he can marry this other woman. The man could divorce her and be done with it. As far as someone saying he feels divorce is a falling out of love. He didn't love Terri when he was procreating with another woman!!!!!!!! Put yourselves in this moms shoes, would you try to fight her husband to let go??? YES you would DON'T LIE!! WE ALL WOULD!!! I would not want to live this way either but I see the videos of the womans change of demeanor when she is visited by her family. I don't believe she is brain dead. Sorry!! Flame away if you feel you must. I have my flame retardent suit on....


Firechick..

Well said and I agree with you 100%!!!!! I always thought the husband was the one being selfish I might add. What pisses me off is that Terri has showed she is not brain dead.. WTH is with people that they think Terri should die.. It's insane!!!!! Terri looks happy seeing her parents and she is trying.. Why is she being held back and not getting the proper help?? Because the husband wants her gone.. thats love and caring?? OMG !!! Terri never had the chance and it's cruel!!!

My heart goes out to Terri and to her family...

CatrinaF25
02-19-2005, 04:41 PM
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CatrinaF25
02-21-2005, 04:45 PM
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Victorious
02-21-2005, 06:11 PM
http://www.terrisfight.org/


I just watched the videos on this site and i have to say i am PISSED!!!!
she IS responding! she IS! maybe not like you and me would but she is!! She got excited with the music . reminded me of my son!! she followed the balloons!!! when they Ok this they will ok it for children like my son! I can not believe anyone that would think this is OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this is MURDER PERIOD!!! END OF STORY!!!!!!!! let her parents take care of her! just because her quality of life is not like yours or mine does not mean she deserves to die!!!!
i am sorry i am mad! i was mad before but watching them movies comfirmed what i already felt!
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I'd ask the people who think this is ok to go watch that movie. and then please do tell me. do you feel the same? what if this was your child and your child was born this way? would you have them put to death?

ITA with you.. after watching the videos..I think it was about a year ago maybe longer when I first heard about Teri. I could not believe people didn't think she was responding.

Donnagg123
02-21-2005, 06:51 PM
Terri doesn't seem to be in an irrevesable coma - so this critieria would not apply.
I understand this, that is why I put for example because it said for example. It was not all inclusive that this treatment is only meant for those in irreversable coma. It just gave a irreversable coma as an example of imminent death process. I understand that she is not in an irreversable coma, some were wondering why use this type of treatment and I was just showing why it is used.

Jolie Rouge
02-21-2005, 07:17 PM
No problem Donna, just clarifying

CatrinaF25
02-21-2005, 07:24 PM
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schsa
02-22-2005, 10:58 AM
I think the difference lies in the fact that Terri has been kept alive for so long that to remove the tube that keeps her alive to me is a waste. If this decision had been made at the begining when she was first hospitalized then I could understand. But she has lived with the feeding tube for such a long time that to remove it seems to be without purpose. Her husband thinks he is being humane and her parents think that they are doing the right thing. Let her live out her life, whatever the quality might be, and die as she should.

As for Sun, he is going to die. His lungs will not support his body. So it is only a matter of time before he is gone. Or he may just be that miracle that is the child that recovers and lives. I don't understand why his mother is not allowed to see him.

There are children that are born that we know will not live. There are people who are so badly injured that we know they will not live. But decisions on life and death should be made immediately, not months and years after the fact. They should be informed and they should follow the wishes of the entire family. And should you choose to let that person have life, whatever the quality, then take your loved one home and take care of them to the best of your ability. Don't leave them to live out their lives in the confines of a nursing home or a hospital because you won't make the sacrefice to love them and care for them.

ntgsmommy
02-22-2005, 12:47 PM
this was just posted:

Emergency Stay Issued in Right-To-Die Case

Tuesday, February 22, 2005
DUNEDIN, Fla. - A Pinellas Circuit Court judge has issued an emergency stay that will keep Terri Schiavo's feeding tube in place until 5 p.m. Wednesd

CatrinaF25
02-22-2005, 01:43 PM
this was just posted:

Emergency Stay Issued in Right-To-Die Case

Tuesday, February 22, 2005
DUNEDIN, Fla. - A Pinellas Circuit Court judge has issued an emergency stay that will keep Terri Schiavo's feeding tube in place until 5 p.m. Wednesd


YIPPIE

Jolie Rouge
02-22-2005, 02:18 PM
As for Sun, he is going to die. His lungs will not support his body. So it is only a matter of time before he is gone. Or he may just be that miracle that is the child that recovers and lives. I don't understand why his mother is not allowed to see him.

I don't think it is a case of she is not "allowed" to see him; I just didn't get that impression from the article I read. It may be a number of things : how far is the hospital from her home; does she have other children; is she tied up with the legalities ( lawyers & courthouse appearances ) to "save" him. She may have had to go back to work or face losing her insurance covering his medical care....

When Michael was in the hospital, we were there two and three times a day - some of the other babies rarely had visitors. Did it mean I was a better parent or they were "bad parents" ?? I had the oppurtunity of living within 20 minutes of one of the South's foremost Neuonatal Units; I had enough family and friends who were willing to babysit my other children and/or drive me to that hospital. Sometimes Hubby would take me to the hospital and he would sit downstairs with our other children and read or play games. We were not "better parents" - just luckier.

schsa
02-22-2005, 02:32 PM
I had thought about that. I don't think that she is in any way a bad parent. I am just wondering if the hospital is keeping her away or if she can't get to whatever hospital he is in. Somehow she needs to be supported. Regardless of the outcome, she needs to be able to see her son. I think that is essential for any baby to survive. That connection with the mother has to be there.

I hope that she can see him.

Jolie Rouge
02-22-2005, 02:43 PM
Emergency Stay Issued in Right-To-Die Case
By VICKIE CHACHERE

DUNEDIN, Fla. (AP) - The case of a severely brain-damaged woman remained locked in a legal stalemate Tuesday after an appeals court cleared the way for her husband to remove her feeding tube only to see a judge promptly block the removal for at least another day.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal offered no specific instructions in a one-page mandate issued in the case of Terri Schiavo, who was left brain damaged 15 years ago. That meant her husband, Michael Schiavo, could order his wife's tube be removed.

But Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer later issued an emergency stay about an hour later blocking removal of the feeding tube until 5 p.m. EST Wednesday. Greer, who has been overseeing the long-standing dispute, scheduled a hearing on the case for Wednesday. ``We're encouraged that we'll be able to get in front of Judge Greer tomorrow,'' Bobby Schindler, Terri's younger brother, said Tuesday outside her Pinellas Park hospice.


Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had sought the stay in hopes of keeping their daughter alive long enough for them to file additional legal pleadings. They are trying to oust their son-in-law as her guardian and seeking medical tests which might back their assertion that their daughter has some mental capabilities.

It would likely take several days for Terri Schiavo to die if the tube is pulled.

The appeals court's mandate allowed Michael Schiavo to act under previous court rulings in the years-long, highly emotional legal battle. The court has consistently upheld lower court rulings that Terri Schiavo had expressed wishes not to be kept alive artificially, although she left no written directive.


In October 2003, she went without food or water for six days before Gov. Jeb Bush pushed through a new law letting him order the tube be reinserted. The Florida Supreme Court later struck down his action as unconstitutional. The courts also sided with Michael Schiavo when he had the tube removed for two days in 2001.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, did not have any immediate reaction.

Terri Schiavo suffered severe brain damage on Feb. 25, 1990, when a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder caused her heart to stop beating and cut off oxygen to her brain. While she breathes on her own, she relies on the feeding tube to survive. Doctors have ruled she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope for recovery.

Still, her parents, who visit her nearly every day, report their daughter laughed, cried, smiled and responded to their voices. Video showing the dark-haired woman appearing to interact with her family has been televised nationally. But the court-appointed doctor has said the noises and facial expressions are reflexes.

The Schindlers have also said they will ask the U.S. Supreme Court to consider their claim that Terri Schiavo should be spared based on statements by Pope John Paul II that people in vegetative states have a right to nutrition and hydration. They say Terri, as a practicing Roman Catholic, would have obeyed the pope and would not choose to have her tube removed.

Both sides accused each other of being motivated by greed over a $1 million medical malpractice award from doctors who failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance. The Schindlers argue Michael Schiavo should divorce their daughter.


02/22/05 15:08




New ruling keeps Schiavo feeding tube in place
Tuesday, February 22, 2005

DUNEDIN, Florida (AP) -- The case of a severely brain-damaged woman remained locked in a legal stalemate Tuesday after an appeals court cleared the way for her husband to remove her feeding tube only to see a judge promptly block the removal for at least another day.

The 2nd District Court of Appeal offered no specific instructions in a one-page mandate issued in the case of Terri Schiavo, who was left brain damaged 15 years ago. That meant her husband, Michael Schiavo, could order his wife's tube be removed.

But Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer later issued an emergency stay about an hour later blocking removal of the feeding tube until 5 p.m. EST Wednesday. Greer, who has been overseeing the long-standing dispute, scheduled a hearing on the case for Wednesday.

"We're encouraged that we'll be able to get in front of Judge Greer tomorrow," Bobby Schindler, Terri's younger brother, said Tuesday outside her Pinellas Park hospice.

Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had sought the stay in hopes of keeping their daughter alive long enough for them to file additional legal pleadings. They are trying to oust their son-in-law as her guardian and seeking medical tests which might back their assertion that their daughter has some mental capabilities.

It would likely take several days for Terri Schiavo to die if the tube is pulled.

The appeals court's mandate allowed Michael Schiavo to act under previous court rulings in the years-long, highly emotional legal battle.

The court has consistently upheld lower court rulings that Terri Schiavo had expressed wishes not to be kept alive artificially, although she left no written directive.

In October 2003, she went without food or water for six days before Gov. Jeb Bush pushed through a new law letting him order the tube be reinserted. The Florida Supreme Court later struck down his action as unconstitutional.

The courts also sided with Michael Schiavo when he had the tube removed for two days in 2001.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, did not have any immediate reaction.

Terri Schiavo suffered severe brain damage on Feb. 25, 1990, when a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder caused her heart to stop beating and cut off oxygen to her brain.

While she breathes on her own, she relies on the feeding tube to survive. Doctors have ruled she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope for recovery.

Still, her parents, who visit her nearly every day, report their daughter laughed, cried, smiled and responded to their voices. Video showing the dark-haired woman appearing to interact with her family has been televised nationally. But the court-appointed doctor has said the noises and facial expressions are reflexes.

The Schindlers have also said they will ask the U.S. Supreme Court to consider their claim that Terri Schiavo should be spared based on statements by Pope John Paul II that people in vegetative states have a right to nutrition and hydration. They say Terri, as a practicing Roman Catholic, would have obeyed the pope and would not choose to have her tube removed.

Both sides accused each other of being motivated by greed over a $1 million medical malpractice award from doctors who failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance. The Schindlers argue Michael Schiavo should divorce their daughter.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/22/schiavo.court.ap/index.html

Jolie Rouge
02-23-2005, 02:25 PM
Judge extends stay on Schiavo case

CLEARWATER, Fla. (AP) — A judge has extended an emergency stay that will keep Terri Schiavo's feeding tube in place until 5 p.m. EST Friday.

Two courts ruling within an hour of each other handed victories to either side yesterday in the bitterly contested fight over the fate the brain-damaged woman, paving the way for more legal wrangling.

The 2nd District Court of Appeals allowed a stay to expire Tuesday that had blocked Schiavo's husband from removing her feeding tube. But before the tube could be removed, Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer issued an emergency stay until 5 p.m. ET Wednesday.

On Wednesday, Greer is to heard arguments from Schiavo's parents that their son-in-law, Michael, is not fit to be his wife's guardian.

George Felos, Michael Schiavo's attorney, said, "as soon as he's legally authorized, he will discontinue artificial life support." It would likely take several days for Terri Schiavo to die if the tube is removed.

Doctors have ruled that Terri Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope for recovery, and would live no more than a week or two without getting food and water through the tube inserted into her abdomen.

Her parents have countered with other medical opinions that the 41-year-old woman who appears to cry, laugh and react to her family might improve with rehabilitation.

Terri Schiavo has twice had her tube removed only to have it reinserted in dramatic, last-minute developments.

In October 2003, she went without food or water for six days before Gov. Bush pushed through a new law letting him order the tube be reinserted. The Florida Supreme Court later struck down his action as unconstitutional.

Terri Schiavo's parents say she would not want to die and have offered to take care of her if Michael Schiavo would divorce her.

Michael Schiavo says his wife had expressed wishes not to be kept alive artificially, although she left no written directive. He said he is determined to carry on in the case out of love for his wife. "This case is about Terri Schiavo's wishes," Felos said. "It's about her wishes not to be forced-fed, her wishes not to be kept alive artificially."



http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-02-22-schiavo_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno


TIMELINE

1990 Feb. 25: Terri Schiavo collapses in her home. Doctors believe a potassium imbalance caused her heart to temporarily stop, cutting off oxygen to her brain.

1992 November: Schiavo's husband, Michael, wins a malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing her. The jury awards more than $700,000 for her care; Michael receives an additional $300,000.

1993 July 29: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, file a petition to have Michael removed as Terri's guardian. The case is later dismissed.

1998 May: Michael Schiavo files a petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.

2000 Feb. 11: Circuit Court Judge George Greer rules the tube can be removed.

2001 April 23-24: The U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene; the feeding tube is removed.

2001 April 26: Circuit Court Judge Frank Quesada orders the tube reinserted.

2002 Feb. 13: Michael Schiavo again petitions to remove the feeding tube.

2002 Nov. 22: Greer orders the tube removed Jan. 3, 2003.

2002 Dec. 13: Greer stays his order until an appeals court reviews the case.

2003 June 6: The 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's ruling.

2003 Oct. 15: Doctors remove the feeding tube.

2003 Oct. 20-21: The Florida Senate and House pass a bill allowing Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene. He signs "Terri's Law," then issues an order to reinsert the tube.

2004 Sept. 23: The Florida Supreme Court strikes down "Terri's Law" as unconstitutional.

2005 Jan. 24: The U.S. Supreme Court refuses to review the case.

2005 Feb. 22: The 2nd District Court of Appeal clears the way to remove the feeding tube; Greer issues an emergency stay until a hearing Feb. 23.

Source: Associated Press

CatrinaF25
02-23-2005, 04:28 PM
i dont get it.. what this man is trying to do is legally kill his wife. why is this ok! this makes me so darn mad!

ntgsmommy
02-23-2005, 06:27 PM
What I can't understand is why they want to starve her to death and dehydrate her...don't the courts realize how many people in this world use feeding tubes and hydration tubes to eat and drink?? It's just wrong....maybe the parent should bring Terri with them to court..maybe then they will see she's not in a vegation (I hate this term by the way) state. I read in an atricle that one of the certified nursing aides was givng her jello by mouth and the aide said that Terri enjoyed that, but she had to stop because she was afraid of being caught by her "husband". Maybe her mother and father could try to feed her by mouth a pureed diet.....it's worth a shot if they pull her tubes....although I know they will never see this...I don't know what they are going to do, it's my opinion that to do this is murder and legally and humanely wrong!! :mad:

CatrinaF25
02-23-2005, 11:19 PM
What I can't understand is why they want to starve her to death and dehydrate her...don't the courts realize how many people in this world use feeding tubes and hydration tubes to eat and drink?? It's just wrong....maybe the parent should bring Terri with them to court..maybe then they will see she's not in a vegation (I hate this term by the way) state. I read in an atricle that one of the certified nursing aides was givng her jello by mouth and the aide said that Terri enjoyed that, but she had to stop because she was afraid of being caught by her "husband". Maybe her mother and father could try to feed her by mouth a pureed diet.....it's worth a shot if they pull her tubes....although I know they will never see this...I don't know what they are going to do, it's my opinion that to do this is murder and legally and humanely wrong!! :mad:


ITAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA

Jolie Rouge
02-24-2005, 04:20 PM
Schiavo Case Highlights Eating Disorders
By VICKIE CHACHERE

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/bigpic.jsp?photoid=20021122NY133

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) - Before she was the severely brain-damaged patient at the center of a legal dispute over whether she should live or die, Terri Schiavo was a young woman who desperately wanted to be thin.

At 26, she was strikingly beautiful with delicate features. But she had spent her childhood and high school years as a chubby and shy girl, standing just 5-foot-3 and weighing 200 pounds at her heaviest.

When she finally lost 65 pounds in her late teens, men started to pay attention - including the man who would become her husband, Michael Schiavo, who was tall and handsome.

But keeping the weight off was a struggle for Terri Schiavo, and years later - after her heart stopped briefly, cutting off oxygen to the brain - a malpractice case brought against a doctor on her behalf would reveal she had been trying to survive on liquids and was making herself throw up after meals. The Schiavos' lawyer said her 1990 collapse was caused by a potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder.


It is a cruel twist lost on no one close to the case: A woman who is said to have struggled with an eating disorder is now in the middle of a court battle over whether her feeding tube should be removed so that she can starve to death.


Gary Fox, a lawyer who represented Terri and Michael Schiavo in the malpractice case, said the disease is the ``lost lesson'' in the Schiavo case.


``While there is no cure for bulimia, there were things that could and should have been done for her that would have controlled it,'' he said in a recent interview.


Terri Schiavo, 41, is now locked in what some doctors say is a persistent vegetative state, with no hope of recovery. In one of the nation's longest right-to-die disputes, her husband is fighting with her parents to have the feeding tube removed; a court order preventing its removal expires at 5 p.m. Friday.


Like almost every element in the case, whether Schiavo really was bulimic is in dispute. Her father, Robert Schindler, said he does not believe his daughter had an eating disorder and thinks her husband had something to do with her collapse. Michael Schiavo has denied hurting his wife.


During the malpractice case, at least one of Schiavo's friends testified they knew she was bulimic because after meals out, she always immediately excused herself to go to the bathroom. Her husband also knew she had peculiar eating patterns but did not realize they were dangerous, Fox said.


Medical records from the hospital where Schiavo was treated after her collapse note that ``she apparently has been trying to keep her weight down with dieting by herself, drinking liquids most of the time during the day and drinking about 10-15 glasses of iced tea.''


Fox said that in the months before her collapse, Schiavo went to the doctor because she had stopped menstruating. It was a silent ``cry for help,'' the lawyer said. But the doctor did not take a complete medical history that might have revealed an eating disorder.


The jury put the damages at $6.8 million but reduced the verdict to about $2 million because it felt Schiavo was partly at fault for her collapse.


Fox said Schiavo was a victim of medical negligence, but also a victim of societal pressures to be thin. ``She didn't want to go back to where she was from,'' he said. ``This was the only way she could do this in her mind and be able to eat as much as she did.''


Eating disorders have long been known to cause heart failure. According to the National Eating Disorders Association, the binge-and-purge cycles of bulimia can lead to chemical imbalances that harm major organs.


David Herzog, a Harvard psychology professor and founder of the Harvard Eating Disorders Center, said medical science is only in the early stages of tracking the long-term effects of eating disorders and there are no good statistics on how many people are killed or permanently disabled. Herzog said that even when someone dies from an eating disorder, medical examiners often do not list it on the death certificate.


Experts say the serious health risks exist long before a victim looks sick. In Schiavo's case, Fox said, she was not excessively thin when she went to the doctor.


Psychologist Doug Bunnell, president of the National Eating Disorders Association, said while he could not comment on the specifics of the Schiavo case, it is often impossible to predict which sufferers are in immediate danger. ``Paint me a picture of an eating disorder - it's an emaciated woman,'' he said. ``But that's not the reality. They don't get down that low. The face of eating disorders is your next-door neighbor's daughter or maybe your own.''



02/24/05 14:19

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050224%2F1419702925.htm&sc=1110

Donnagg123
02-24-2005, 08:26 PM
"Psychologist Doug Bunnell, president of the National Eating Disorders Association, said while he could not comment on the specifics of the Schiavo case, it is often impossible to predict which sufferers are in immediate danger. ``Paint me a picture of an eating disorder - it's an emaciated woman,'' he said. ``But that's not the reality. They don't get down that low. The face of eating disorders is your next-door neighbor's daughter or maybe your own.'' "

this is so true, especially of bulemics. A lot of times the bulemics can be of normal weight or obese. It is usually the anorexics where you see the emaciated severe weight loss. Also, It seems to me that they were trying to place the blame on society and the medical personel, which I am not saying they are not at fault because I was not there. BUT, it seems to me as if the husband and friends should be partially...well I do not want to say blame because we are all responsible for our own actions as was Terri. However, they knew she had abnormal eating habits and all and they did not intervene as well. It is important that when you know someone has an eating disorder that you just do not let it happen but actually get involved and help otherwise you may end up in the same situation that this poor family is in.

tigger4
02-25-2005, 02:41 PM
Man Cleared to Remove Wife's Feeding Tube


By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - A judge gave Terri Schiavo's husband permission to remove the brain-damaged woman's feeding tube in three weeks, handing him a victory in his effort to carry out what he says were his wife's wishes not to be kept alive artificially.



The ruling by Pinellas Circuit Court Judge George Greer will allow the husband, Michael Schiavo, to order the tube removed at 1 p.m. on March 18. In the meantime, the woman's parents, who want her kept alive, are expected to ask another court to block the order from taking effect.


The judge wrote that he was no longer comfortable granting delays in the long-running family feud, which has been going on for nearly seven years and has been waged in every level of Florida's court system. He said the case must end.


"The court is no longer comfortable granting stays simply upon the filings of new motions," Greer wrote. "There will always be 'new' issues."


The tube keeps the 41-year-old disabled woman alive. The husband, Michael Schiavo, says he is seeking to carry out his wife's wishes not to be kept alive artificially.


The decision came on the 15th anniversary of Terri Schiavo's collapse, when a chemical imbalance brought on by an eating disorder caused her heart to stop beating.


The parents were at the Pinellas Park hospice where Terri Schiavo is being cared for when Greer's order was issued. They were planning an afternoon news conference.


Greer previously granted Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, a stay until 5 p.m. Friday.


The judge made his decision after pleadings from the parents that they need more time to pursue additional medical tests which might prove their daughter has more mental capabilities than previously thought.


State officials also are trying to intervene in the case. Attorneys for the Schindlers said the state wants a 60-day stay to investigate allegations that she is being mistreated by being denied appropriate medical care and rehabilitation.


The Schindlers and their son-in-law have fought each other in court since the late 1990s on whether Terri Schiavo should live or die. The two sides have battled through scores of opinions and rulings and tens of thousands of pages of filings.


The feud has taken on elements of a soap opera, with allegations that it began as a fight over more than $1 million awarded to Terri Schiavo in a medical malpractice case which her husband stood to inherit. Michael Schiavo has also been accused by his in-laws of having a conflict of interest in wanting his wife dead because he has started a new family with another woman.


The Schindlers do not believe their daughter is in a persistent vegetative state as court-appointed doctors have ruled.


A leading Vatican (news - web sites) cardinal also has weighed in on behalf of keeping Terri Schiavo alive.


"If Mr. Schiavo legally succeeded in provoking the death of his wife, this would not only be tragic in itself, but it would be a serious step toward legally approving euthanasia in the United States," Cardinal Renato Martino, the head of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, told Vatican Radio on Thursday.

YankeeMary
02-26-2005, 09:10 AM
I was thinking its is ironic that the thing that put her in this condition is the same thing that is keeping her alive. FOOD!!! Its funny how we are all so quick to judge either side of this. I can not imagine calling a man I have never met (never will meet) selfish and unloving, I have no idea who heisor what kind of a person he is and the same goes for her parents. I can not say with any certainty what I would do or not do in this situation. I know that a pet is not human but so many of us think of them as family but when their quality of life is not good we run to the vet to have them put out of their misery. Either way whether human or animal, they are creations of God. Therehave been people say its in Gods hands etc...well thats not completely true. God did not put those tubes in her. She would be dead if it weren't for the obvious measures in keeping her alive.
The bottom line is that SHE did this to herself, where were her parents and DH before she was hospitalized? Was she in therapy for her eating disorder? Were they all as involved then as they are now? I know that she was sick to have an eating disorder but I am real courious why she got this sick to start with? I can honestly say I am glad and thankful that I am not in the position of the parents or the DH.

dangerousfem
02-26-2005, 11:46 AM
Actually I watched her brother on the new last nite.. he said there was NO history of an eating disorder, and that they have had a few forensic dr.s testify that it appeared someone had attempted to strangle her. And that he had emt training, but never preformed any life saving manouver on her...family and friends also stated that right before her collapse she had been talking about a divorce... seems kind of funny to me... also... he has NEVER allowed any type of reabilatation to be tried on her.... now I understand you saying your not sure what you would do... as far as letting her live.. but if this was your husband he collapsed... wouldn't you try everything available BEFORE you gave up hope?? If you read the dr's progress on her, and watch the videos on her... it is very clear she in not in a vegatative state.

ntgsmommy
02-26-2005, 01:38 PM
Actually I watched her brother on the new last nite.. he said there was NO history of an eating disorder, and that they have had a few forensic dr.s testify that it appeared someone had attempted to strangle her. And that he had emt training, but never preformed any life saving manouver on her...family and friends also stated that right before her collapse she had been talking about a divorce... seems kind of funny to me... also... he has NEVER allowed any type of reabilatation to be tried on her.... now I understand you saying your not sure what you would do... as far as letting her live.. but if this was your husband he collapsed... wouldn't you try everything available BEFORE you gave up hope?? If you read the dr's progress on her, and watch the videos on her... it is very clear she in not in a vegatative state.

Ya know, I read that somewhere as well...isn't it funny how this information is not being made very public (until her brother said it last night).... :confused:

Jolie Rouge
02-26-2005, 01:56 PM
Schiavo Legal Fight Could Be Nearing End
By MITCH STACY

CLEARWATER, Fla. (AP) - It's been 15 years since Terri Schiavo's heart stopped beating for several minutes, causing severe brain damage that put her into what doctors call a persistent vegetative state. For almost seven of those years, her husband Michael has been fighting to stop her feedings, arguing that she didn't want to be kept alive artificially.

Terri Schiavo is now 41 and still in a hospice after myriad twists and turns in a dramatic legal and ideological battle that has pitted her parents against their son-in-law.

Whether there's an end in sight is anybody's guess.

``It seems like the same news over and over,'' acknowledged Pat Anderson, a former lawyer for Terri Schiavo's parents. ``It must be quite incomprehensible (to the public) that she is still alive.''


There have been countless lawsuits, court hearings, appeals, news conferences and tears shed by her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who promise to keep fighting. The case file at the Pinellas County Courthouse now fills 45 volumes. ``I don't regret a second of what we've been through,'' said Terri's brother, Bobby Schindler, 40. ``I'll make up for it when we save my sister.''

Twice, Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed by court order, and both times it was restored. The last time, in 2003, Gov. Jeb Bush pushed through a state law - later ruled unconstitutional - that authorized him to resume the feedings six days after they were stopped.

On Friday, state Circuit Judge George Greer set a new date for removal of the feeding tube for March 18, prompting the Schindlers' attorney to promise yet another flurry of legal filings.

Greer's ruling came on the 15th anniversary of Terri Schiavo's collapse on Feb. 25, 1990, when a chemical imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder stopped her heart, cutting off oxygen to her brain for five minutes.

Michael Schiavo said his wife never wanted to be kept alive artificially, but she left no written directive. He says he's fulfilling a promise he made to her, and he has spent most of a $700,000 medical malpractice award given to his wife for her care to pay his attorney.


Her parents, with financial backing from the California-based Life Legal Defense Foundation, have vowed to keep litigating the case to keep Terri alive. They dismiss arguments that she is in vegetative state, believing she could get better with therapy, that she laughs, responds to them and tries to talk.

Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, is critical of the courts for allowing the Schindlers to keep delaying her death and of Bush and lawmakers for trying to get involved. ``If Terri Schiavo could for one hour get up and see what's going on, I think she would be absolutely horrified that she has been maintained in this condition against her will for so long, and that she has become the political pawn that she has,'' Felos said.

He said the Schindlers can keep delaying the case indefinitely unless the court puts an end to it. ``No judge wants to be the last judge whose name is on the order resulting in a patient's death,'' Felos said. ``Sooner or later, some court is going to have to summon the courage and fortitude to say no more delays.''

However, Greer seems inclined to do that, saying in Friday's ruling he ``is no longer comfortable'' ordering stays to entertain more new motions and allowing the Schindlers time to keep filing appeals.

Schindler attorney David Gibbs III said the legal system is operating as it should, ordering appropriate delays to consider each new issue. ``I'm thrilled we're not rushing like a barbaric culture to starve people to death,'' Gibbs said.

Terri Schiavo already has lived in her brain-damaged state longer than two other young women whose high-profile cases brought right-to-die issues to the forefront of public attention.

Karen Quinlan lived for more than a decade in a vegetative state - brought on by alcohol and drugs in 1975 when she was 21 - until New Jersey courts finally let her parents take her off a respirator. Nancy Cruzan, who was 25 when a 1983 car crash placed her in a vegetative state, lived nearly eight years before the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that her parents could withdraw her feeding tube.



Jay Wolfson, a University of South Florida medical professor who had briefly served as Terri Schiavo's court-appointed advocate in 2003, said bringing the case to a close is going to be challenging for the court because of all the legal, religious and political issues that have become attached to it. ``This is hot stuff,'' Wolfson said. ``The implications of what happens in this case have already affected people. I think they are getting living wills and asking questions about death and dying. We just don't like thinking about (death), let alone talking about it.''



02/26/05 14:02

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?floc=ne-main-9-l9&flok=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050226%2F1403853706.htm&sc=1110

Jolie Rouge
02-26-2005, 02:06 PM
In speaking about this case with an attorney friend he made a point that I had not considered before... IF Michael Schiavo divorced Terri, he would not only lose controll of the estate, but would likely have to pay spousal support, since Terri is unable to work to maintain herself. Further, if her parents were to gain control of the accounts establish in Terri's name which Michael Schiavo has used to his own ends, then the parent would have grounds to file lawsuits against Michael for misuse of funds or even embezzlements.




--------


If I held someone isolated, deprived of medical attention, and attempted ( repeatedly ) to withhold food and water from them -- I would be held on a variety of charges, torture, attempted murder, abuse, ect. ...

Funny how Michael Schiavo gets away with it....

YankeeMary
02-26-2005, 07:04 PM
Actually I watched her brother on the new last nite.. he said there was NO history of an eating disorder, and that they have had a few forensic dr.s testify that it appeared someone had attempted to strangle her. And that he had emt training, but never preformed any life saving manouver on her...family and friends also stated that right before her collapse she had been talking about a divorce... seems kind of funny to me... also... he has NEVER allowed any type of reabilatation to be tried on her.... now I understand you saying your not sure what you would do... as far as letting her live.. but if this was your husband he collapsed... wouldn't you try everything available BEFORE you gave up hope?? If you read the dr's progress on her, and watch the videos on her... it is very clear she in not in a vegatative state.
Yes it if were my husband I would try to do everything possible for him, but he and I have talked about this and he stated and I agree the same treatment for me, if something like this happened to one of us and we were in the "state" that this woman is in, then by all means put an end to it. I know not everyone will agree but its what WE think is right for US. I can see where her parents would want her alive but IMO she isn't living a very happy life, compared to what she lived.
As far as him abusing her, if I were her family and wanted her to live I would say just about anything to keep her alive. I just pray that he wasn't abusing her and they are just saying it to keep her alive, which is completely understandable.
I hadn't heard that she did NOT have an eating disorder...thanks for the update.

schsa
02-27-2005, 12:16 PM
whoa. Her husband had tried rehab and several other types of therapy. And what does her brother know. It doesn't take alot to come up with a low potassium level if you are using diarhetics and vomiting to control your weight. Bulimics are not throwing up in front of friend and family. They hide what they are doing.

If it had appeared that her husband had strangled her, there would not have been a law suit that ended with a malpractice award. Somewhere along the line someone would have brought that up giving that level of doubt.

And you ask why she wasn't in therapy? What about women who kill their children? Why aren't they in therapy? Because their families don't see that there is anything wrong. Until something finally happens.

I feel sorry for everyone involved. This has gone on far too long.

Jolie Rouge
02-28-2005, 08:20 AM
Yes it if were my husband I would try to do everything possible for him, but he and I have talked about this and he stated and I agree the same treatment for me, if something like this happened to one of us and we were in the "state" that this woman is in, then by all means put an end to it. I know not everyone will agree but its what WE think is right for US. I can see where her parents would want her alive but IMO she isn't living a very happy life, compared to what she lived.


Get in writing and notarized.

The unfortunate thing is that no one else ever heard Terri express her wishes in this and the only person whose word we have to go by in the one who would benefit from her death.

My entire family knows my feelings on thie issue, I have a card in my wallet, and a notarized statement with an attorney.

Jolie Rouge
03-10-2005, 02:37 PM
3/10/2005

Judge nixes Schiavo intervention by agency

TAMPA (AP) — A judge ruled Thursday that Florida's social services agency cannot intervene to delay the removal of the feeding tube keeping brain-damaged Terri Schiavo alive.

The Department of Children and Families had asked for a 60-day delay in the removal of the feeding tube, now scheduled March 18. The agency said it wanted time to investigate allegations of abuse and neglect by the woman's husband, Michael Schiavo.

But Circuit Judge George W. Greer ruled the agency's attempt to get involved at this late stage "appears to be brought for the purpose of circumventing the court's final judgment ... in violation of the separation of powers doctrine."

Michael Schiavo's attorney had criticized the last-minute attempt by the agency to get involved, saying that it was engineered by Gov. Jeb Bush and others who support Terri Schiavo's parents in their bid to keep their daughter alive.

Terri Schiavo is in what some doctors say is a persistent vegetative state. She suffered brain damage after her heart stopped because of a chemical imbalance that was believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder.

Michael Schiavo has gotten a court order to remove the feeding tube, contending his wife told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-10-schiavo_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

Jolie Rouge
03-10-2005, 08:42 PM
Calif. man offers $1 million to keep Schiavo alive

LOS ANGELES, March 10 (Reuters) - A California businessman on Thursday offered $1 million to the husband of a brain-damaged woman at the center of a right-to-die tussle if he hands over guardianship to her parents, who want to keep her alive.

Robert Herring Sr. made his offer on the day that another Florida court bid failed to stop the March 18 removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Schiavo, 41, was severely brain-damaged 15 years ago after a heart attack that cut off the oxygen to her brain and left her unable to swallow or communicate.

Schiavo's parents, Robert and Mary Schindler, believe their daughter might improve with treatment and have been fighting through the courts for years to stop Schiavo's husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo, from removing the tube that is keeping her alive.

"I ... have made an offer to Terri's husband in the amount of $1 million to relinquish his custodial rights to Terri's parents in an effort to keep the hope for Terri alive," Herring told a Los Angeles news conference. "After viewing video of Terri on television, I came to the belief that there was hope for her ... I have seen miraculous recoveries occur through the use of stem cells in patients suffering a variety of conditions," Herring said.

Herring, from San Diego, was the founder of Herco Technology Corp., a circuit-board maker he sold in 2000. He said he had been following the Schiavo case through the media for about two years and was not affiliated with any cause or organization.

He said his offer would remain open until March 14 -- four days before a court-agreed date of March 18 for Terri Schiavo's feeding tube to be removed. She is expected to die within two weeks.

Michael Schiavo has said his wife would not want to remain alive in her condition, which some doctors have diagnosed as a persistent vegetative state.

Her parents have won numerous stays in court over the past five years but no court has ruled in their favor. They say their daughter responds to them and believe that with additional therapy she could be taught to swallow.


03/10/05 19:43

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news//story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0002/20050310/1943901379.htm

janelle
03-10-2005, 10:15 PM
No, don't give the money to her husband give it to her parents so they can use it to fight the legal system and also get their daughter therapy. :eek: He will just spend it on himself like he did before. I thought there was a law that made people who are rewarded a huge amount of money for medical malpractice to use it on the person it hurt. :confused: Well if there isn't there should be. :mad:

janelle
03-10-2005, 11:07 PM
S P E C I A L A L E R T
C E N T E R F O R R E C L A I M I N G A M E R I C A

Critical Action Items Below
Your Immediate Response Requested

3/10/2005

Marilyn,

The life of Terri Schiavo is literally hanging in the balance, and
Christians throughout the nation are rallying in a twelfth hour
effort to spare her life.

Will you join the 126,703 citizens who are standing on her
behalf by clicking here:

http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?RID=7990607

+ + Florida lawmakers introduce life-saving legislation

Representative Dave Weldon (R-FL) and Senator Mel Martinez
(R-FL) have just introduced the "Incapacitated Persons Legal
Protection Act" (H.R. 1151, S. 539).

If passed into law, this bill would make an immediate impact toward
protecting the lives of people like Terri Schiavo by providing a
final avenue of review of these cases, insuring that a disabled
person's constitutional rights are not trampled, simply because
that person cannot speak for him- or herself.

With time running out for Terri, we must take immediate action to
create a groundswell of support for this legislation. By reaching
out to lawmakers and urging them to support this vital piece of
life-affirming legislation, we can fight for Terri's life.

After signing your name to our petition to save Terri, here are
three additional ways you can make a powerful difference in this
life and death battle:

+ + Action Item #1--Contact Your Kansas Senators!

Please call your Kansas senators and urge them to stand for
those who cannot speak for themselves by co-sponsoring the
"Incapacitated Persons Legal Protection Act" (S. 539).

Here's your contact information for:

Sen. Brownback (202) 224-6521
Sen. Roberts 202-224-4774

Remember, time is of the essence, so call as soon as possible!

+ + Action Item #2-- Contact Your Representative Today!

After contacting each of your senators, take a few extra moments
to contact your Kansas representative, urging him or her
to give full and immediate support to the "Incapacitated Persons
Legal Protection Act" (H.R. 1151). Make certain that your
representative understands this bill will benefit those
citizens who simply cannot fight for themselves.

If you do not know who your Kansas representative is, call
the Capitol Switchboard; they will connect you quickly.
Here is the number:

202-224-3121

You can also find your representative and his or her contact
information by clicking here:

http://www.reclaimamerica.org/contactCongress.asp?lk=house

After you call, please let us know you took action
by clicking here:

http://www.cfra.info/r.asp?u=415

+ + Action Item #3--Thank Rep. Weldon and Sen. Martinez!

Finally, please thank Representative Weldon and Senator Martinez
for taking a courageous and principled stand on this issue! Too
often, elected officials hear only complaints from unhappy
constituents. It is essential that we support and praise our
representatives in Washington for doing the right thing!

Representative Dave Weldon: 202-225-3671
Senator Mel Martinez: 202-224-3041

+++ Center-Sponsored Rally For Terri Schiavo ++++

If possible, make plans now to attend the Center’s Rose Rally for Terri,
at 3 p.m., this Sunday, March 13, on the steps of the "Old" Florida
State Capitol, in the Capitol Courtyard, Tallahassee!

We are expecting a substantial turnout, and we would love for you
or your church group to attend this prayerful effort to build
support for saving Terri Schiavo's life.

For information on attending, please click here:

http://www.reclaimamerica.org

If you cannot make the trip to Tallahassee in support of Terri
this Sunday, we still desperately need for you to help us build
congressional support for the "Incapacitated Persons Legal
Protection Act" (H.R. 1151, S.539) by contacting your federal
elected officials.

Thank you in advance for doing your part to help save the
life of Terri Schiavo.

CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA

P.S. This is an important issue for every pro-life person in America.
Please, take time to forward this message to as many of your friends
and family as you can in the coming days. Encourage them to become
part of the growing effort to save Terri Schiavo's life by
clicking here:

http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?RID=7990607

For more on the Terri Schiavo case:

http://www.reclaimamerica.org

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Let us know that you took action:

http://www.cfra.info/r.asp?u=415

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Read the text of S. 539/H.R. 1151:

http://www.reclaimamerica.org/pages/NEWS/newspage.asp?story=2518

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
The Center for Reclaiming America, established by Dr. D. James Kennedy,
is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public
and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles
on which our country was founded. The Center, led by Executive Director
Dr. Gary Cass, provides non-partisan, non-denominational information,
training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture
and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers.

Questions? cfra@coralridge.org

Jolie Rouge
03-11-2005, 09:23 PM
3/11/2005

Schiavo turns down $1M offer

TAMPA (AP) — A man fighting to have a feeding tube removed from his brain-damaged wife on Friday rejected a California businessman's offer to pay him $1 million to give up his right to decide her medical treatment.

http://images.usatoday.com/news/_photos/2005/03/11-schiavo.jpg Michael Schiavo contends he had once promised his wife he would not keep her alive by artificial means. -- AP file

Thursday's offer, which the husband's attorney labeled "offensive," came hours after a judge refused to let the state's social services agency intervene — a move that would have delayed next week's scheduled removal of the tube.

Other such offers, including one for $10 million, had already been made and rejected by Michael Schiavo, said his attorney, George Felos.

Terri Schiavo's parents are trying to keep her alive, but Michael Schiavo contends he had once promised his wife he would not keep her alive by artificial means before she suffered a heart attack 15 years ago. Now 41, she has lived since then in what court-appointed doctors call a persistent vegetative state.

Even if the husband did walk away, Felos said, there is still a court order requiring removal of the tube at 1 p.m. next Friday. A judge ordered that the feedings be stopped after finding "clear and convincing" evidence that she would not want to be kept alive in her current state.

Judge George Greer denied a request by the state Department of Children & Families to delay that order for 60 days so it can investigate allegations of abuse and neglect against Michael Schiavo.

The judge said the allegations had already been investigated and found to be groundless. He said the agency was apparently trying to pull an end run around the court by getting involved at this late stage.

The case has drawn international attention, particularly among religious conservatives, who are supporting the woman's parents.

San Diego businessman Robert Herring, who founded an electronics company and later a cable and satellite channel, said he felt "compelled" to try to have the husband transfer the legal right to decide his wife's medical treatment to the parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. "I believe very strongly that there are medical advances happening around the globe that very shortly could have a positive impact on Terri's condition," Herring said.

Herring's offer is valid until Monday, according to a statement from his attorney, Gloria Allred. The money has been deposited into a trust account at Allred's Los Angeles law firm, the statement said.

Felos said his client would not consider any such proposals. "Michael has said over and over again that this case is not about money for him," Felos said. "It's about carrying out his wife's wishes. There is no amount of money anyone can offer that will cause him to turn his back on his wife."

The Schindlers still have two issues before the state's 2nd District Court of Appeal, which has said it will rule next week. They also are looking to the Legislature and perhaps Congress for help; both have bills in the works that lawmakers say could save Terri Schiavo's life.

The Schindlers doubt their daughter had end-of-life wishes and have fought their son-in-law in court for nearly seven years to save her life. They also dispute that she is in a vegetative state, saying she laughs, cries, interacts with them and tries to speak.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-10-schiavo_x.htm?csp=24&RM_Exclude=Juno

YankeeMary
03-13-2005, 07:25 AM
This should go to show that it isn't about the money I would think?!? She DID have an eating disorder that brought this all on, monies were awarded for her and the jest of it WAS spent on HER medical care. The point about spousal support was brought up if there was a divorce and it is a great point, but he is already paying way more then what a judge would order, and I do not mean financially. Just thinking about 15 years of this wow is it really worth a million dollars to fight over something for that long? A million dollars does not go to far today, especially when you consider her medical costs and attorney/court fees, etc...I truly do not believe it is about the money nor his new "family". It would be different if the "new" woman appeared immediatly after she was placed in the hospital.
As for comparing Teri's story to those born with disabilities IMO is wrong. They are 2 completely different scenerios. No one is suing Catrina to have her son put to death, doctors might have told you his "life quality" isn't there but you were allowed to keep him alive without a court order. Your son was born like this, not fair to compare him to someone whom put themselves in this condition. Your son is home and happy. She is in a personal care home in a bed 24/7. Huge difference in my opinion. You were Blessed with one of God's chosen children. Teri (according to her husband) said she would never want to live like this. I can see where you would be so upset over this, but it isn't about someone born in this state, its about someone being born "normal" (if there is a normal) expressing not to live in a "veg" state and still being kept alive by artifical means. After 15 years she has remained relatively in the same way no improvement, just doesn't seem right that everyone is against her wishes. Catrina please do not take this as an attack, I know how much this upsets you, but I just was trying to make you see that this isn't about your minor son, but about an adult married woman with a wish not to live like this.
I think if eveyone that is able to walk, talk, think, run, jump, sit, stand would consider if something happened and you were to end up in the state Teri is in, I truly do not think any one of us would want to live the way she is living. Just one day you were in a car wreck, would you want to remain in a hospital bed forever, with people coming in and proding on you, taking pics, pittying you, not ever being able to stand to shower or to wash yourself, or to comb your hair, do your make-up, taste chocolate. In Teri's earlier pics (before hospitalization) she was beautiful. Her hair and make-up done, huge smile. Now no one even does her hair or make-up (not even her mom or dad that want to keep her like this). In my heart I believe she would be greatly upset to know that this is what has become of her. I know if it were me I would be devestated.

ntgsmommy
03-14-2005, 06:40 PM
Posted on Mon, Mar. 14, 2005



R E L A T E D C O N T E N T

Steve Cannon
Cheryl Winn attends the Rose Rally for Terri Schiavo on Sunday March 13, 2005, in Tallahassee, Fla. Schiavo has been in a coma for 15 years and the Circuit Court has given permission to remove her feeding tube on March 18, 2005.


R E L A T E D L I N K S
• More Local news




Tears, hope fill rally for Schiavo

Court order causes hundreds to gather

By Aetna Smith and Diane Hirth

DEMOCRAT STAFF WRITERS


Hundreds gathered Sunday at the steps of the state's old Capitol to rally against a Pinellas County court order to remove Terri Schiavo's feeding tube Friday.

Some held placards with the words "Rose Rally for Terri" during a blustery, yet sunny, afternoon. Others cried during the event attended by Schiavo's family - parents Bob and Mary Schindler and brother Bob Jr. - and hosted by 12 state-level and national groups including Coral Ridge Ministries, the Center for Reclaiming America and Florida Right to Life.

Gary Cass, the executive director of the Center for Reclaiming America, told a group of more than 500 that the "eyes of the world are watching us." The center, an outreach organization of Coral Ridge Ministries, advocates for pro-life and religious-freedom issues.

"The world is watching how we treat the weak, the disabled, and it will reflect on the consciousness of our nation," he said. "We need to do the right thing. We're here to save Terri's life, but it's not just life for Terri, it's also for people like her."

Members of the 12 groups also are in Tallahassee to deliver long-stemmed roses to state legislators Tuesday. They plan to ask for support of a bill moving through the Florida House that would apply generally to all cases of incapacitated persons being kept alive through water and nutrition tubes. The bill would prohibit removing the tubes unless the person left clear written instructions to the contrary.

John Stemberger, the president and general counsel of the Florida Family Council based in Orlando, said the event was not a protest. Audience members and media came from areas of Florida, Georgia and Louisiana, among other states.

"We have a governor who will do everything necessary to save Terri," he said. "The House is creating a bill to intervene. So what do we have to protest here in Tallahassee?"

The bill Stemberger referred to could affect thousands of individuals in hospitals, hospices and nursing homes. The bill (HB 701) by Rep. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, reflects the wishes of House Speaker Allan Bense and Senate President Tom Lee not to pass another bill tailored only to the circumstances of Terri Schiavo.

"Terri's Law," hurriedly passed in fall 2003, gave Gov. Jeb Bush the power to have Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted after it had been removed based on a court order. The Florida Supreme Court later overturned the law, and Bense and Lee said they prefer to take a more deliberative, broader approach to such highly emotional life-and-death cases.

"I certainly hope that whatever error I make is on the side of allowing someone to live rather than to die," Baxley said last week.

Stemberger also spoke against what he called the misleading information propagated by the media. He said Schiavo is not brain-dead, comatose or in a persistent vegetative state.

"She can laugh, cry, interact," he said. "She is not on artificial life support. She is fed from a tube. There is nothing dignified about death by dehydration or starvation."

Schiavo's father, Bob Schindler, told the crowd that he was overwhelmed by their concern for his daughter.

"As Friday approaches, the question we keep being asked is 'How do you feel?' We have faith," he said, his voice cracking. "God is in charge. We're being supported by you people. We're so appreciative of what you're doing. "

His wife Mary said she's been trying to teach her daughter to say "I love you."

"She can say the 'I,' but she's having trouble with the 'love you,'" she said. "She's doing OK. She's a strong lady."

Schiavo did not leave a "living will" stating her wishes in case of incapacity. Since a stroke 15 years ago, she has been declared to be severely brain-damaged and in a vegetative state. Her husband and legal guardian Michael Schiavo said letting her die follows what she told him she would want in such circumstances, but the woman's parents have been fighting to keep their daughter alive. They believe she could benefit from rehabilitation.

The Rev. Patrick Mahoney of the Christian Defense Coalition asked the audience to attend a vigil at 9 a.m. Tuesday in Upper Waller Park near the Capitol. Then supporters of the bill will visit legislators with roses.

"The roses are a reminder that if we don't feed and water roses, their beauty will fade," he said. "Likewise, if Terri is denied food and water, she'll fade."

Cheryl Winn and her family traveled from Jacksonville to attend the rally. She identifies with the Schindler family because after her brother's stroke, his insurance company refused to pay for rehabilitative therapy. He died in a nursing home three years ago.

"They said it was too much money to rehabilitate him and that they couldn't do it," she said. "People need to know about this problem. Allowing (Terri) to die is not right. She needs to be with the people who love her."

Meanwhile, last Wednesday's House Health Care Regulation Committee 7-4 vote for the bill split along party lines, as Democrats suggested the proposal was unwarranted government intrusion into families' private lives.

"I believe in life," said Rep. Yolly Roberson, D-Miami. "But I don't believe I have the right to tell someone to hold on or to let go."



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AT THE CAPITOL >


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact reporter Aetna Smith at (850) 599-2382 or arsmith@tallahassee.com.

janelle
03-14-2005, 07:28 PM
"I believe in life," said Rep. Yolly Roberson, D-Miami. "But I don't believe I have the right to tell someone to hold on or to let go."

I also don't believe anyone has that right so why are they by removing her feeding tube? Let God tell her when it's time. We do everything we can to help people live and then leave it up to God.

Hospice is getting more like this everyday. Talking terminally ill people into have their tube pulled. Why make them die faster? Money of course. They are no longer useful to us and hospice will be out some money so tell them to starve to death. :mad:

Jolie Rouge
03-14-2005, 09:02 PM
A million dollars does not go to far today, especially when you consider her medical costs and attorney/court fees, etc...

An audit of the funds show that more money has been spent trying to have her life ended than having medical treatment & therapy for Terri.


I truly do not believe it is about the money nor his new "family". It would be different if the "new" woman appeared immediatly after she was placed in the hospital.

I beleive the "new" woman was in his life BEFORE Terri's episode ... how old are the children with this person ?



As for comparing Teri's story to those born with disabilities IMO is wrong. They are 2 completely different scenerios.

The scenerio is that "quality of life" as a qualifier for euthansia - with the person acting as the executor being the same person as will inheirit. Something of a conflict of interest, don' you think ?

Jaxx
03-14-2005, 10:46 PM
well her feeding tube is coming out on Friday :(
i think that they could have come up with a more
humane way of doing it...after all she will starve to death.
I couldn't do this to my own animals much less a person

Njean31
03-15-2005, 04:29 AM
Hospice is getting more like this everyday. Talking terminally ill people into have their tube pulled. Why make them die faster? Money of course. They are no longer useful to us and hospice will be out some money so tell them to starve to death. :mad:

this statement makes absolutely no sense to me. if hospice is pushing people into a faster death, how would hospice benefit? hospice gets paid by taking care of a living person, when they die the money stops. hospice does not benefit from a death.

YNKYH8R
03-15-2005, 05:37 AM
well her feeding tube is coming out on Friday :(
i think that they could have come up with a more
humane way of doing it...after all she will starve to death.
I couldn't do this to my own animals much less a person
They'll probably give her morphine, that's what they did for my grand mother.

Njean31
03-15-2005, 11:50 AM
They'll probably give her morphine, that's what they did for my grand mother.

i doubt they will give her morphine, that's reserved for severe pain which I don't think she is in. if she is truly in a vegetative state then she shouldl not suffer from the dehydration and starvation that will take her life. BUT from what i've read, she has responded in the past (i don't know about recently) and if so........i don't understand how they are doing this
:(

YNKYH8R
03-15-2005, 12:33 PM
Morphine also takes away hunger pains and feeling.

Njean31
03-15-2005, 02:40 PM
Morphine also takes away hunger pains and feeling.

that may very well be a potential side effect for some depending on the dosage, but it should only be prescribed for severe pain, dyspnea (trouble breathing), or in certain instances preoperatively. there may be some doctors out there who use it for active euthenasia when the patient's suffering is immense and the patient and family want it (which is illegal ofcourse). i would think though that doctors practicing in this manner would use a different drug because there are much better and more effective drugs to help a person die but maybe they do morphine because its so common and accessible, and least likely to raise any red flags.

firechick
03-15-2005, 04:09 PM
I think instead of us writing all our thoughts here we should contact the wife murderer and his lawyers and this SCUM of a judge. There is no words to describe ANY of these people except to say that there is a special place reserved in HELL for murderers........
May God swiftly take Terri into his loving arms and comfort her family. Pretty sick. Theres a law against starving your child or your pet but its okay to do to your wife so you can get on with the immoral life you've been living and be done with it. Sorry but murder is murder and if he believes that it would be wrong to divorce Terri because of moral issues then why the heck is bonking this other woman, having kids with her, and most importantly starving a human life. She is an "inconvenience" so lets get rid of her, Just like how some poeple who have an abortion think. (Flame suit on) I'm not saying anything to tick anyone off but just stating the obvios facts.
Kelly

CatrinaF25
03-15-2005, 06:51 PM
////////

Jolie Rouge
03-15-2005, 08:25 PM
Mom wins order to keep infant on life support
Appeals court keeps infant on life support
Thursday, February 17, 2005 Posted: 9:32 AM EST (1432 GMT)

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A mother fighting to keep a hospital from removing her infant son from the ventilator that has kept him alive since birth has won another temporary restraining order.

The 1st Court of Appeals reinstated the order keeping 4-month-old Sun Hudson on life support Wednesday, just hours after a probate court judge lifted the order. A hearing was set for Tuesday.

The dispute centers on the legal standard over hospital care in Texas. Under state law, a hospital must continue care if there is a reasonable probability that another hospital will admit the patient.

Texas Children's Hospital officials have said no treatment can save Sun, and they want to remove him from life support. Hospital lawyers said state officials have contacted almost 40 facilities and none have been willing to care for the infant. But the boy's mother, Wanda Hudson, believes her son will recover. Her attorney argued there is a reasonable chance another hospital would take the child.

Sun suffers from thanatophoric dysplasia, a genetic condition characterized by extremely short limbs, a narrow chest, small ribs and underdeveloped lungs. Infants usually are stillborn or die shortly after birth from respiratory failure. There have been rare documented cases of survivors, however. "He is slowly suffocating to death because his lungs lack the capability to support his body," the hospital said.

Hudson hasn't seen her son in more than a month, but says she believes she communicates with him telepathically. "Sun is going to live forever," she said. "As long as the Sun is in the sky he will live. I don't believe in death."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/17/life.support.fight.ap/index.html

-------------

:( (How very sad ... ) :(


Baby at center of life support case dies
Tuesday, March 15, 2005

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A critically ill 5-month-old was taken off life support and died Tuesday, a day after a judge cleared the way for doctors to halt care they believed to be futile. The infant's mother had fought to keep him alive.

Sun Hudson had been diagnosed with a fatal genetic disorder called thanatophoric dysplasia, a condition characterized by a tiny chest and lungs too small to support life. He had been on a ventilator since birth.

Wanda Hudson unsuccessfully fought to continue her son's medical care. She believed he needed time to grow and could eventually be weaned off the ventilator. "I wanted life for my son," Hudson said Tuesday. "The hospital gave up on him too soon."

Texas law allows hospitals to end life support in cases such as this but requires that families be given 10 days to find another facility to care for the patient. No hospital was found to take the baby.

The ethics committee at Texas Children's Hospital reviewed Sun's case before recommending that life support be stopped. Hospital officials also recommended the case be taken to court and offered to pay Hudson's attorney fees. "Texas Children's Hospital is deeply saddened to report that Sun Hudson has died," the hospital said in a statement issued Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/15/lifesupport.baby.ap/index.html

cavemtmomma
03-15-2005, 10:18 PM
To those who agree with Mr. Schiavo:
CALLER:Yes. Does it bother you that the death is so slow? Maybe Dr. Kevorkian-style would be a faster, more peaceful way?

SCHIAVO: Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die. Probably the second better way to die, being the first being an aneurysm. And it doesn't bother me at all. I've seen it happen. I had to do it with my own parents.
This is a transcript of an interview done by Larry King.

He killed his own parents, whats one more murder on his concious?
If you've ever seen film of Terri she is definately alert and responds to people she knows. She only has a feeding tube because it's easier for her caregivers not because she couldn't eat. I've fed people in the nursing home, it's time consuming and requires patience. Not something we have lots of, nowadays.

Jolie Rouge
03-16-2005, 09:55 AM
To those who agree with Mr. Schiavo:
CALLER:Yes. Does it bother you that the death is so slow? Maybe Dr. Kevorkian-style would be a faster, more peaceful way?

SCHIAVO: Removing somebody's feeding is very painless. It is a very easy way to die. Probably the second better way to die, being the first being an aneurysm. And it doesn't bother me at all. I've seen it happen. I had to do it with my own parents.

This is a transcript of an interview done by Larry King.


Very interesting ... got a link to the whole piece ?

tigger4
03-16-2005, 01:10 PM
I can't find the Larry King transcript, but here is the transcript to the ABC Dateline show from last night.

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=584124&page=1

tigger4
03-16-2005, 01:11 PM
Court Won't Intervene in Schiavo Case

25 minutes ago Top Stories - AP

State Appeals court refuses to block removal of feeding tube.


By VICKIE CHACHERE, Associated Press Writer

TAMPA, Fla. - A state appeals court Wednesday refused to block the removal of Terri Schiavo's feeding tube later this week, shifting the focus in the right-to-die dispute to the Legislature.





The 2nd District Court of Appeal in Lakeland turned down a request by Bob and Mary Schindler for a delay while they pursue further appeals, and for a new trial on their daughter's fate.


The tube is scheduled to be removed on Friday at 1 p.m.


The appeals court said the issues that the Schindlers raised were not new and had been dealt with by numerous courts.


"Not only has Mrs. Schiavo's case been given due process, but few, if any similar cases have ever been afforded this heightened level of process," Chief Judge Chris Altenbernd said.


Florida legislators, meanwhile, pressed ahead with bills to block Michael Schiavo from having his wife's feeding tube removed. The Senate and House were scheduled to consider competing bills Thursday, but negotiators said it would be difficult to reconcile them in time.


"We need to able to talk long and hard about this," said state Rep. Shelley Vana.


The Schindlers' attorney, Barbara Weller, said she was not surprised by the ruling. She would not say if it would be appealed to the Florida Supreme Court (news - web sites).


George Felos, Michael Schiavo's lawyer, did not immediately return calls.


Schiavo, 41, suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped, and court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her husband says she told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, and say she could get better.


Late last month, Circuit Judge George Greer granted Michael Schiavo permission to remove the feeding tube. After that, it could take a week or two for Terri Schiavo to die.

YankeeMary
03-16-2005, 02:09 PM
"I believe in life," said Rep. Yolly Roberson, D-Miami. "But I don't believe I have the right to tell someone to hold on or to let go."

I also don't believe anyone has that right so why are they by removing her feeding tube? Let God tell her when it's time. We do everything we can to help people live and then leave it up to God.


Good thought Janelle but God already told her it was her time and then people stepped in and placed tubes in her to keep her alive.


Jolie, as an adult Teri could have and should have put it in writing. My DH is responsible for me and he is my benificary. If I didn't trust him, I would appoint someone else. Obviously she trusted him.

YankeeMary
03-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Catrina, this isn't about someone that was born with a disability. This is about someone that had an "incident" (lack of better word) and is disabled due to that. It doesn't set the grounds for anything but other cases very similar to Teri's. Huge difference. I can understand your fears about whom will care for Dallas if something happened to you and your DH. But what if something happened to just you and you are laying where Teri is today...that leaves your DH to care not only for Dallas and your daughter but now for you also. I guess he should just simply keep you alive and run himself to death caring for you all alone. Doesn't seem fair to me. I know I wouldn't want my Dh to have to deal with all that.

Jolie Rouge
03-16-2005, 02:19 PM
To deny someone food and water is cruel and inhumane -- no matter how you put a spin on it.


When my son was in the hospital one particular nurse ALWAYS had "problems" feeding him and insisted on tube feeding him. Why ? Because feeding him with a bottle meant that she had to sit and tend to him for 20 minutes or so rather than the five minutes to use the gavage. I also watched her on the shifts that I was with my son - she was lazy, plain and simple. I reported her multiple times and refused to have my son in her care at anytime. She was eventually moved from the NICU.

Schiavo has had nurses removed from his wife's care because they were taking the time & effort to spoon feed her rather than leaving her dependant on the gavage feedings ( avidavits posted at www.Terrisfight.org ).

Coincidence ??

Not likely.

Jolie Rouge
03-16-2005, 02:23 PM
Catrina, this isn't about someone that was born with a disability. This is about someone that had an "incident" (lack of better word) and is disabled due to that. It doesn't set the grounds for anything but other cases very similar to Teri's. Huge difference.

WRONG.


Having discussed this at length with friends & family in both law and medical fields this case sets a frightening LEGAL PRECEDNCE for euthenasia on the grounds of "quality of life"


A very slippery legal slope.

YankeeMary
03-16-2005, 05:02 PM
WRONG.


Having discussed this at length with friends & family in both law and medical fields this case sets a frightening LEGAL PRECEDNCE for euthenasia on the grounds of "quality of life"


A very slippery legal slope.
Oh I see, my opinion or thoughts are wrong, but your friends opinions are right, because they have a degree? (I also have a degree in law, just for the record). If her case is used in another then thats one thing but to speculate that this particular case is the bases of "killing" mentally ill children is just ridiculous. It always amazes me how people (in general) can go from one extreme to another. Teri DID have an eating disorder, SHE did this to herself. She stated she didn't want to live like this. So by allowing them to keep the tubes in her then it is setting precendences to go against those of us that have wishes not to live this way. So therefore it works both ways. She is an adult, she is over age, she wasn't born like this. All the info about Teri and how great she is doing etc...is from websites that support Teri's parents. I would think if I were them I would say whatever I could to keep her alive for my own selfish needs. I just find it hard to believe that numerous doctors are willing to risk their license and reputations, and face lawsuits by removing the feeding tubes that are keeping Teri alive. I guess her husband has offered to split the "million dollars" from the lawsuit with all the doctors and thats why they are "lying" for him. Obviously the Judges would have to be included in the "million dollar" split also. I know it sounds ridiculous but thats the point.

Has anyone been able to find out how old the children are that he had with this "new" woman? I am thinking I heard that the oldest one was 8??? Not sure. Please post if anyone finds this out.

Also, Lets say that they are once again able to reverse the order and the tubes are to remain in place. Who will take care of Teri once her parents pass on? They are both up there in age? Why doesn't someone go into the home where Teri is and "clean" her up? Do her hair and make-up the way she use to do? Just makes me wonder how they couldn't?

dangerousfem
03-16-2005, 05:08 PM
"She stated she didn't want to live like this"

Thats the thing though... we don't know if she really did or not... out of everybody in her life.. friends, family, doctors... there is only 1 person that says this... her husband...
From everyone else they say she believed in life, and would never condone killling herself..which agreeing to have the tubes taken out (according to the pope) is the same thing.

YankeeMary
03-16-2005, 05:16 PM
"She stated she didn't want to live like this"

Thats the thing though... we don't know if she really did or not... out of everybody in her life.. friends, family, doctors... there is only 1 person that says this... her husband...
From everyone else they say she believed in life, and would never condone killling herself..which agreeing to have the tubes taken out (according to the pope) is the same thing.
The Popes opinion is just that, he isn't God. She believed in life, is what she living life? Her condition isn't her "norm". She had an eating disorder that jeopardized her life, yet she continued with it. I know that she couldn't help the eating disorder, since it is a mental disorder, but was she seeking treatment for it? No, from what I read she wasn't, so therefore she jeopardized her own life everyday and risked dying (which she did once) everyday so I doubt her religion played a part in the whole situation, being her priest wasn't even counseling her on the disorder.
Of course her family would say she wanted to live like this, I would say it if I were in their situation and didn't want my child to die.

Victorious
03-16-2005, 05:35 PM
"She stated she didn't want to live like this"

Thats the thing though... we don't know if she really did or not... out of everybody in her life.. friends, family, doctors... there is only 1 person that says this... her husband...
From everyone else they say she believed in life, and would never condone killling herself..which agreeing to have the tubes taken out (according to the pope) is the same thing.


AMEN!
If other people then just the husband had heard her say that she didn't want to be kept alive or it was in writting
...then that's her choice :(

Njean31
03-16-2005, 05:39 PM
Good thought Janelle but God already told her it was her time and then people stepped in and placed tubes in her to keep her alive.



i think that sums it up nicely IF INFACT she is truly in a vegetative state. she would have died when this first happened but she's been kept alive with tube feedings. this IS a very slippery slope and future cases will be influenced by the outcome regarding her case.

i hope she is truly in a vegetative state. God bless her
:(

dangerousfem
03-16-2005, 05:45 PM
"i hope she is truly in a vegetative state"

thats the thing though.. she isn't.. have you watched the videos of her? There was even a dr on the news the other day.. saying that no way was she in a vegetative state.. that he had worked with patients like this for 20 yrs, and felt like she could benifit from todays medical advances.. but it has been yrs since her husband has allowed anything to be done to her.

"Good thought Janelle but God already told her it was her time and then people stepped in and placed tubes in her to keep her alive."

if God wanted her to go.. a feeding tube wouldn't stop it... she would have a heart attack, a brain anurism (sp)... a simple feeding tube isn't gonna stop God's plan.. other than her eating tube.. she is alive and functioning on her own.

"She believed in life, is what she living life? Her condition isn't her "norm""

I guess I don't see believeing in life stopping because the life isn't "norm" or what others think is "quality"

Jolie Rouge
03-16-2005, 05:47 PM
She stated she didn't want to live like this.

The one and only person saying this is the one and only person who stands to benefit from her death. "Conflict of Interest" would be the legal term applied in this situation.


Michael Schiavo said his wife never wanted to be kept alive artificially, but she left no written directive. He says he's fulfilling a promise he made to her, and he has spent most of a $700,000 medical malpractice award given to his wife for her care pay his attorney.[/i]




All the info about Teri and how great she is doing etc...is from websites that support Teri's parents. I would think if I were them I would say whatever I could to keep her alive for my own selfish needs.

Terri Schiavo is very much alive and responsive. That is what lawyers for Robert and Mary Schindler saw when they visited Terri Schiavo in her room at the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, FL, on Christmas Eve.

Attorney David Gibbs III and Attorney Barbara Weller, of Gibbs Law Firm in Seminole, FL, took on the role of lead counsel for the Schindlers in September of 2004. The Christmas Eve visit was the first time either of the attorneys had been able to see Terri since taking the case. They made the visit with Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, and members of her immediate family.

Counsel was able to personally verify the fact that Terri is not in a coma or even in a comatose state. She was purposefully interactive, curious and expressive with her parents during the entire 45-minute visit. Mrs. Weller wrote a moving narrative describing in detail her reactions and observations during this visit. (Mrs. Weller's narrative is available online at http://www.terrisfight.org/press/BJWnarrative.html.)

The doctors that state that she is in a vegatative state are on M. Schiavo's payroll ( see again "conflict of interest" ... )




Has anyone been able to find out how old the children are that he had with this "new" woman? I am thinking I heard that the oldest one was 8??? Not sure. Please post if anyone finds this out.

I heard ( on the radio - can't locate info online ) that he has two children; a 14 year old daughter and an 8 year old son. Hhhhmmmmmm..... If anyone has verifiable info, it would be appreciated.


Why doesn't someone go into the home where Teri is and "clean" her up? Do her hair and make-up the way she use to do? Just makes me wonder how they couldn't?

Because M. Schiavo has total control - he will not allow anyone to see her, all photographs and video taken of Terri become HIS property. If she is truly in this sad state, why not release a video or pics to the press ? Prove that Terri is as incapacitated as he claims ... or not.



A former court-appointed advocate for a brain-damaged woman at the center of a right-to-die battle says the woman should undergo new medical tests to put to rest lingering questions about whether she has any hope of recovery. But first her warring husband and parents would have to agree to drop their legal fight in favor of whichever side the independent medical experts support, the former advocate told The Associated Press.

The comments by Jay Wolfson, a University of South Florida professor, were his first on the case since he served as Terri Schiavo's guardian ad litem. They came as the legal options of Schiavo's parents have dwindled to two pending matters in state courts that have ruled against them before in their effort to keep her on a feeding tube.

Wolfson said it is not too late to revisit the original question in the long-running legal saga - is the 41-year-old woman disabled, or brain dead? "There is so much at stake here, not just for Terri, but for the issue,'' said Wolfson, who is both a doctor and a lawyer. ``If we were serious about addressing this, we would say, 'What are the interests of the parties and how can we use science, medicine and good law to take away from the clouding factors in this case?''' he said.


Attorneys for her husband, Michael Schiavo, did not return calls for comment Tuesday. A new independent medical review has been suggested, and rejected, by both sides at different stages in the case.

01/25/05 18:56

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news...453.htm&sc=1110

TIMELINE

1990 Feb. 25: Terri Schiavo collapses in her home. Doctors believe a potassium imbalance caused her heart to temporarily stop, cutting off oxygen to her brain.

No meaningful therapy is provided for Terri after 1991 .... how was she supposed to impprove ?

1992 November: Schiavo's husband, Michael, wins a malpractice suit that accused doctors of misdiagnosing her. The jury awards more than $700,000 for her care; Michael receives an additional $300,000.

1993 July 29: Terri Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, file a petition to have Michael removed as Terri's guardian. The case is later dismissed.

1998 May: Michael Schiavo files a petition to remove Terri's feeding tube.

2000 Feb. 11: Circuit Court Judge George Greer rules the tube can be removed.

2001 April 23-24: The U.S. Supreme Court refuses to intervene; the feeding tube is removed.

2001 April 26: Circuit Court Judge Frank Quesada orders the tube reinserted.

2002 Feb. 13: Michael Schiavo again petitions to remove the feeding tube.

2002 Nov. 22: Greer orders the tube removed Jan. 3, 2003.

2002 Dec. 13: Greer stays his order until an appeals court reviews the case.

2003 June 6: The 2nd District Court of Appeal upholds Greer's ruling.

2003 Oct. 15: Doctors remove the feeding tube.

2003 Oct. 20-21: The Florida Senate and House pass a bill allowing Gov. Jeb Bush to intervene. He signs "Terri's Law," then issues an order to reinsert the tube.

2004 Sept. 23: The Florida Supreme Court strikes down "Terri's Law" as unconstitutional.

2005 Jan. 24: The U.S. Supreme Court refuses to review the case.

2005 Feb. 22: The 2nd District Court of Appeal clears the way to remove the feeding tube; Greer issues an emergency stay until a hearing Feb. 23.

Source: Associated Press

Jolie Rouge
03-16-2005, 06:04 PM
All the info about Teri and how great she is doing etc...is from websites that support Teri's parents. I would think if I were them I would say whatever I could to keep her alive for my own selfish needs.

The same goes both ways .... M. has his own adgenda.

MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.

FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri’s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri’s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri’s feeding removed.

Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri.

Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself “Dr. Death”, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.

In 1992, Terri was awarded nearly one million dollars by a malpractice jury and an out-of-court malpractice settlement which was designated for future medical expenses. Of these funds, less than $50,000 remains today.

The financial records revealing how Terri’s medical fund money is managed are SEALED from inspection. Court records, however, show that Judge Greer has approved the spending down of Terri’s medical fund on Schiavo’s attorney’s fees - though it was expressly awarded to Terri for her medical care.

Schiavo’s primary attorney, George Felos, has received upwards of $400,000 dollars since Schiavo hired him. This same attorney, at the expense of Terri’s medical fund, publicly likened Terri to a “houseplant” and has used Terri’s case on national television to promote his newly published book.



Why doesn't someone go into the home where Teri is and "clean" her up? Do her hair and make-up the way she use to do? Just makes me wonder how they couldn't?

Other motions by the Schindlers ask that some news reporters be allowed to see Terri Schiavo's interactions with her parents, since they contend she responds to them; that they be allowed to take pictures with her before she dies and that those photographs not become Michael Schiavo's property, as a current court order now requires; that she be allowed to die at home; and that they be allowed to bury her rather than the cremation her husband has planned.

YankeeMary
03-16-2005, 06:38 PM
"i hope she is truly in a vegetative state"

thats the thing though.. she isn't.. have you watched the videos of her? There was even a dr on the news the other day.. saying that no way was she in a vegetative state.. that he had worked with patients like this for 20 yrs, and felt like she could benifit from todays medical advances.. but it has been yrs since her husband has allowed anything to be done to her.

"Good thought Janelle but God already told her it was her time and then people stepped in and placed tubes in her to keep her alive."

if God wanted her to go.. a feeding tube wouldn't stop it... she would have a heart attack, a brain anurism (sp)... a simple feeding tube isn't gonna stop God's plan.. other than her eating tube.. she is alive and functioning on her own.

"She believed in life, is what she living life? Her condition isn't her "norm""

I guess I don't see believeing in life stopping because the life isn't "norm" or what others think is "quality"
I stated HER NORM...not what I or others consider to be quality. Her norm was the average persons norm, such as walking, talking, dressing, showering, all by herself, without assistance.

dangerousfem
03-16-2005, 06:40 PM
I know..lol.. but the problem is.. when we start to let someone (judges) decide what is an acceptable norm and what is not... well it starts to get a little scary ya know? cause we all know that our justice system is just a little corupt

fatesfaery
03-16-2005, 10:12 PM
I heard ( on the radio - can't locate info online ) that he has two children; a 14 year old daughter and an 8 year old son. Hhhhmmmmmm..... If anyone has verifiable info, it would be appreciated.


According to
http://www.american-partisan.com/cols/2003/king/qtr4/1119.htm
He has been living with this other woman since 1995. As of Nov.2003, they had one child and were expecting another.
In a Larry King interview in Oct 2003, he stated he had one child.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/27/lkl.00.html

Monday's nightline was about the case, including an interview with Michael Schiavo. The transcript is here http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=584124&page=1 if anyone is interested in reading it. The part of the show I found most interesting was an interview with a young mother who had her 8 year old daughter's feeding tube removed and allowed her to die....but I haven't heard anyone talking about legal precedence with that case or any of the others that never make National headlines.

The video proof that Teri interacts with others is 3 1/2 years old...so much can change (I realize in either direction) in that amount of time.

I hope this case has made everyone in this country think about their wishes....and make sure their family is aware of those wishes. I've been telling my family for years that I would not want to be dependent on any type of life support unless the percentages were high that I could recover and be fairly normal.

YankeeMary
03-17-2005, 04:28 AM
So his oldest child would be 10 and Teri has been in this condition for 15 years...so in theory the "new" woman wasn't before the incident that got Teri put in the hospital, or at least she wasn't pregant.

schsa
03-17-2005, 10:01 AM
If I were him, I would quit fighting to end her life and just let things stay the way they are. He can continue his life with his lover and her childen. Her parents won't get anything and the law suits would end. Terry would live out whatever quality of life she has in a nursing home, being fed by tube and cared for by someone else.

It's gone on too long. Everyone should just back off and let whatever happens, happen.

YankeeMary
03-17-2005, 04:55 PM
If I were him, I would quit fighting to end her life and just let things stay the way they are. He can continue his life with his lover and her childen. Her parents won't get anything and the law suits would end. Terry would live out whatever quality of life she has in a nursing home, being fed by tube and cared for by someone else.

It's gone on too long. Everyone should just back off and let whatever happens, happen.
Even though I think he is trying to carry out her wishes, schsa, I almost agree with you. It is getting ridiculous, actually it passed being ridiculous 1 year into her illness. I just wish the best for them all. I would not for any amount of money change places with any of them (Teri, Her DH, Her parents, or brother.)

Jolie Rouge
03-17-2005, 08:18 PM
Thank you Fatesfaery for the links & the info.

I had heard on the radio and thought it was strange that no one else was talking about the ages of the children if they were actually 14 & 8.


I think if they had a more humane way of lettingTerri go it would be easier to accept - but to allow her to starve to death over a two week or more period hardly seems to be an act of "love".

Jolie Rouge
03-17-2005, 09:23 PM
Supreme Court rejects Schiavo appeal
Feeding tube to be removed from brain-damaged woman Friday
Thursday, March 17, 2005



http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/LAW/03/17/schiavo.brain-damaged/story.schiavo.file.ap.jpg
Terri Schiavo gets a kiss from her mother, Mary Schindler, in this August 11, 2001, image taken from videotape.


(CNN) -- Less than 18 hours before Terri Schiavo was scheduled to have her life-sustaining feeding tube removed, the U.S. Supreme Court rejected an emergency appeal by her parents to stop the procedure.

The court rejected the appeal by Bob and Mary Schindler on Thursday, clearing the way for Schiavo's husband, Michael, to have the feeding tube removed Friday -- 15 years after she collapsed from heart failure that led to her brain damage.

Meanwhile, legislation that would keep her alive appeared to stall in the Florida Legislature and the U.S. Congress.

With time running out in the case, President Bush weighed in on the matter Thursday, saying society and the nation's courts "should have a presumption in favor of life" on such matters.

"Those who live at the mercy of others deserve our special care and concern. It should be our goal as a nation to build a culture of life, where all Americans are valued, welcomed and protected -- and that culture of life must extend to individuals with disabilities," Bush said in a written statement.

The Schindlers filed an emergency appeal early Thursday with the Supreme Court to stop the feeding tube from being removed, arguing that their daughter's religious freedom and due process rights were being violated. But at 7 p.m., the high court rejected the appeal without comment.

On another front, the Florida Supreme Court rejected a request for a stay by the state's Department of Children and Families, citing a lack of jurisdiction. The agency had argued that it needed time to investigate allegations of abuse by Schiavo's husband.

In Washington, the U.S. Senate passed a narrower version of a House bill that would give federal courts jurisdiction in Schiavo's case. The House passed a broader bill Wednesday that would give federal courts jurisdiction, not only for the Schiavo case, but also for people in similar conditions.

With the House in recess for Easter, it appeared that a compromise bill would not make its way to Bush's desk, because there was not enough time to reconcile the differences.

The Senate's bill prompted a terse response from House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.

"House Republicans knew we had a moral obligation to act and we did just that last night," they said in a joint statement. "As Terri Schiavo lays helpless in Florida, one day away from the unthinkable and unforgivable, the Senate Democrats refused to join Republicans to act on her behalf."

In response, Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid shot back, "If the House Republicans refuse to pass our bipartisan bill, they bear responsibility for the consequences."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist said he was proud of the Senate bill and called on the House to follow its lead.

"To knowingly and purposely starve Ms. Schiavo to death would be callous, cruel and immoral," said Frist, a doctor. "I am hopeful that the House will consider and pass this legislation quickly."

Bills in the Florida legislature also seemed to fizzle by late Thursday.

Lower courts have ruled that Schiavo, 41, is in a "persistent vegetative state."

Michael Schiavo contends his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially. But her parents argue she had no such death wish and believe she can get better with rehabilitation.

Both sides have been embroiled in a legal wrangle over whether Schiavo should live or die. Schiavo did not leave anything in writing about what she would want if she ever became incapacitated.

Courts have sided with her husband in more than a dozen cases over the years.

A probate court late last month ruled that, barring a stay, Schiavo's feeding tube would be removed at 1 p.m. Friday. Upon removal of the tube, the court estimated Schiavo would die in seven to 14 days.

Her feeding tube has been removed twice before, most recently in 2003. That year, Gov. Jeb Bush pushed a law through the Florida Legislature that authorized him to resume the woman's feedings six days after a court stopped them. The Florida Supreme Court later ruled the law unconstitutional.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/17/schiavo.brain-damaged/index.html

janelle
03-18-2005, 05:34 AM
The Florida Senate failed today (Thursday) to pass a bill to
save Terri Schiavo's life. Now, the only legislative hope in
Florida is for the Florida Senate to take up the House bill
(H.B. 701) and pass it immediately.

But to do that would require a two-thirds majority in the Senate!

I am asking every team member to contact the Senators who
voted against the bill to save Terri's life and urge them to
"TAKE UP H.B. 701 AND SAVE TERRI'S LIFE."

ACTION ITEMS:

#1--Email the Florida Senators listed below RIGHT AWAY!

#2--Call these Senators FRIDAY MORNING and all day
Friday AND send emails Friday.

+ + CONTACT INFORMATION:

Senator Les Miller: (850) 487-5059
miller.lesley.web@flsenate.gov

Senator J.D. Alexander: (850) 487-5044
alexander.jd.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Tony Hill, Democratic Lead Whip
Phone: (850) 487-5024
hill.anthony.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Nancy Argenziano: (850) 487-5017
argenziano.nancy.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Mike Bennett: (850) 487-5078
bennett.mike.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Lisa Carlton: (850) 487-5081
carlton.lisa.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Paula Dockery: (850) 487-5040
dockery.paula.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Dennis Jones: (850) 487-5065
jones.dennis.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Jim King: (850) 487-5030
king.james.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Larcenia Bullard: (850) 487-5127
bullard.larcenia.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Dave Aronberg: (850) 487-5356
aronberg.dave.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Walter Campbell: (850) 487-5094
campbell.walter.web@ flsenate.gov

Senator Steven Geller: (850) 487-5097
geller.steven.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Ron Klein: (850) 487-5091
klein.ron.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Evelyn J. Lynn: (850) 487-5033
lynn.evelyn.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Gwen Margolis: (850) 487-5121
margolis.gwen.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Nan Rich: (850) 487-5103
rich.nan.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Burt L. Saunders: (850) 487-5124
saunders.burt.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Gary Siplin: (850) 487-5190
siplin.gary.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Rod Smith: (850) 487-5020
smith.rod.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Frederica Wilson: (850) 487-5116
wilson.frederica.web@flsenate.gov

Finally, please PRAY! We need God's intervention. Thank you!


Dr. Gary Cass, Executive Director
CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
The Center for Reclaiming America, established by Dr. D. James Kennedy,
is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public
and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles
on which our country was founded. The Center, led by Executive Director
Dr. Gary Cass, provides non-partisan, non-denominational information,
training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture
and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers.


Questions? cfra@coralridge.org

tigger4
03-18-2005, 08:47 AM
GOP Asks Brain-Damaged Woman to Testify



By JESSE J. HOLLAND, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Senate Republicans embroiled in the life-or-death legal battle over the severely brain-damaged Terri Schiavo invited the Florida woman to testify to Congress in a procedural move intended to keep her on life support.

The Senate Health Committee has requested that Terri and her husband Michael appear at an official committee hearing on March 28. A statement from the office of House Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., on Friday said the purpose of the hearing was to review health care policies and practices relevant to the care of non-ambulatory people.


Frist's statement noted that it is a federal crime to harm or obstruct a person called to testify before Congress, thus stopping any action that could threaten the health of the woman.



I am sorry but the Senate should stay out of this. The U.S. Supreme Court refused to intervene in this, why should the Senate or Congress be involved? I thought the Senate couldn't over rule what the Supreme Court does, or am I wrong?

And she can't testify anyway. She is unable to communicate. This is just another ploy to prolong all of this. I understand her parents position, but she is a grown woman who is married.

And I find it very odd that President Bush just happens to be in Florida today.

excuseme
03-18-2005, 09:52 AM
GOP looking for testimony/information from someone who is brain dead. I guess that explains the WMD intel. Why can't the government quit getting bigger and bigger and let the woman be in peace.

TammyJoR
03-18-2005, 09:56 AM
Feeding tube wont be removed today YAY!! I hope it isnt removed at all. But one day at a time is better then none at all.

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 10:36 AM
This....





Is never....




Going to end.... :(

tigger4
03-18-2005, 10:48 AM
On CNN just now they said the courts ruled the feeding tube will be removed today. The judge reinstated the order just now.

Of all the things going on in the United States right now I for one am appalled that our Congress and Senate are stepping into something they have no right to be involved in.

How many courts including the U.S. Supreme Court have ruled to remove the feeding tube?

TammyJoR
03-18-2005, 10:49 AM
Judge says that the order stands they will remove the feeding tube. And this is so sad this woman has a right to live.

This is never going to end? Why should she die? How do we choice who should live or die? Did somehow we become god over night. No we didnt she is alive no matter what her condtion is and the only one who has a right to choice her faith is the lord above. Not me, you or a Judge and especially not a cheating husband. That is for sure.

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 11:12 AM
This choice was made by her before she ever came into this condition. Let us respect her wishes; but no everyone wants to drag it out longer and longer.

We have the right to live, we also have the right to not to be left in this kind of condition.

TammyJoR
03-18-2005, 11:18 AM
But let me ask where is the proof that she didnt want to live. I have seen no paper work, no written statement by her All I have seen or heard is a Statement from a man who kept her alive in the beginning and then he got alot of money for her, met and began a new life with another woman and all of the sudden somewhere decided he remembered her saying that she didnt want to live.

I wouldnt have a problem with it if there was written paper work from her before she got to this state but there is none and she never told anyone but this man this. I am sorry but Murder is murder and if I did this to my dog, child, or anything else I would be in prison so why is it right to do this to Terri. It isnt. And if she has a right to do this and this was her wishes then why didnt he let her go in the first place. When this all started??

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 11:22 AM
The time has come to let Terri Schiavo die
Politicians, courts must allowhusband to make final decision

By Arthur Caplan, Ph.D.
COMMENTARY
MSNBC contributor
Updated: 2:15 p.m. ET March 18, 2005


We have now reached the endgame in the case of Terri Schiavo. Her husband, Michael, remains unwavering in his view that she would not want to live in the state she is in. Despite the fact that he has been made the target of an incredible organized campaign of vilification, slander and just plain nastiness, he remains unmoved. Even a pathetic effort to bribe him into changing his mind with the offer of $1 million did not budge him.

He says he loves his wife and will do whatever it takes to end an existence that he believes she would not want to endure. He thinks that she would want her feeding tube stopped and that she would wish to die rather than remain bed-bound in a nursing home in a permanent vegetative state for the rest of her days.

The Schindler parents and their other children remain equally convinced that Michael is wrong. They say that Terri would want to live, that she is not as brain-damaged as Michael contends, and that there is still hope for her recovery despite the fact that she has failed to show any real improvement in 16 years. They argue that there are still more treatments to be tried and that as a Catholic Terri would want to honor recent Papal teachings that feeding tubes should not be removed from those in permanent vegetative states.

Who's right and who's wrong?
Congress, or at least the pro-life constituency in the House and Senate, are doing their best to halt Schiavo's death. Last-minute bills invoking habeas corpus, a legal doctrine that has historically only been used for those held in federal custody, along with incredibly zany and inappropriate subpoenas to doctors and nurses requiring that Terri Schiavo be brought to Washington, show a level of grandstanding that is normally reserved for issues such as the use of steroids by major-league baseball players.

So now that this miserable case is moving toward a resolution, what can be said about who is right and who is wrong? And what is the likely legacy of the battle over the fate of Terri Schiavo?

Ever since the New Jersey Supreme Court allowed a respirator to be removed from Karen Ann Quinlan and the U.S. Supreme Court declared that feeding tubes are medical treatments just like respirators, heart-lung machines, dialysis and antibiotics, it has been crystal clear in U.S. law and medical ethics that those who cannot speak can have their feeding tubes stopped. The authority to make that decision has fallen to those closest to the person who cannot make their own views known. First come husbands or wives, then adult children, then parents and other relatives.

That is why Michael Schiavo, despite all the hatred that is now directed against him, has the right to decide his wife’s fate. The decision about Terri’s life does not belong to the U.S. Congress, President Bush, Rep. Tom Delay of Texas, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the Florida Legislature, clerics in Rome, self-proclaimed disability activists, Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, conservative commentators, bioethicists or Terri’s parents. The decision is Michael’s and Michael’s alone.


Sanctity of marriage
Remember the recent debate about gay marriage and the sanctity of the bond between husband and wife? Nearly all of those now trying to push their views forward about what should be done with Terri Schiavo told us that marriage is a sacred trust between a man and a woman. Well, if that is what marriage means then it is very clear who should be making the medical decisions for Terri — her husband.

But, isn’t it true that tough questions have been raised about whether he has her best interests at heart? They have. But, these charges against Michael Schiavo have been heard in court again and again and again. And no court has found them persuasive.

Has there really been careful review of this case? Is Terri really unable to think or feel or sense? Will she never recover? The flurry of activity in Washington and Tallahassee might make you think there has not. But that is not so.

There have been at least 11 applications to the Florida Court of Appeal in this case resulting in four published decisions; four applications to the Florida Supreme Court with one published decision (Bush v. Schiavo); three lawsuits in federal district court; three applications to the U.S. Supreme Court and nearly untold motions in the trial court. This has got to be the most extensively litigated "right-to-die" case in U.S. history. No one looking at what has gone on in the courts in this case could possibly deny that all parties have had ample opportunity for objective and independent review by earnest and prudent judges of the facts and trial court orders.

The time has come
So, it is clear that the time has come to let Terri die. Not because everyone who is brain damaged should be allowed to die. Not because her quality of life is too poor for anyone to think it meaningful to go on. Not even because she costs a lot of money to continue to care for. Simply because her husband who loves her and has stuck by her for more than 15 years says she would not want to live the way she is living.

If Terri is allowed to starve to death what next? Undoubtedly there will be efforts to pass laws to prohibit feeding tubes from being taken away from others like Terri in the future. And there may even be efforts made to push right-to-die cases out of state courts and into federal courts. These are bad ideas.

We have had a consensus in this country that you have a right to refuse any and all medical care that you might not want. Christian Scientists do not have to accept medical care nor do Jehovah’s Witnesses need to accept blood transfusions or fundamentalist Protestants who would rather pray then get chemotherapy. Those who are disabled and cannot communicate have the exact same rights. Their closest family members have the power to speak for them.

The state courts of this country have the power to review termination of treatment cases and have done so with compassion, skill and wisdom for many years. Those who would change a system that has worked — and worked well for the millions of Americans who face the most difficult of medical decisions — should think very hard about whether Sen. Bill Frist, DeLay, Sen. Hillary Clinton, Bush, Sen. John Kerry or the governor of your state needs to be consulted before you and your doctor can decide that it is time to stop life-prolonging medical care.

Arthur Caplan is director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania.

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 11:24 AM
But let me ask where is the proof that she didnt want to live. I have seen no paper work, no written statement by her All I have seen or heard is a Statement from a man who kept her alive in the beginning and then he got alot of money for her, met and began a new life with another woman and all of the sudden somewhere decided he remembered her saying that she didnt want to live.

I wouldnt have a problem with it if there was written paper work from her before she got to this state but there is none and she never told anyone but this man this. I am sorry but Murder is murder and if I did this to my dog, child, or anything else I would be in prison so why is it right to do this to Terri. It isnt. And if she has a right to do this and this was her wishes then why didnt he let her go in the first place. When this all started??
I can't answer these questions, I'm sorry. All I know is these are his rights as her husband; like it or not we have to take his word.

janelle
03-18-2005, 12:16 PM
But let me ask where is the proof that she didnt want to live. I have seen no paper work, no written statement by her All I have seen or heard is a Statement from a man who kept her alive in the beginning and then he got alot of money for her, met and began a new life with another woman and all of the sudden somewhere decided he remembered her saying that she didnt want to live.

I wouldnt have a problem with it if there was written paper work from her before she got to this state but there is none and she never told anyone but this man this. I am sorry but Murder is murder and if I did this to my dog, child, or anything else I would be in prison so why is it right to do this to Terri. It isnt. And if she has a right to do this and this was her wishes then why didnt he let her go in the first place. When this all started??

ITA

We only have the word of her husband who has no more interest in her. How are we to know he is telling the truth? This is why such things are left in
God's hands. And if you think this is just silly to keep it going on then consider all the millions of people the ruling will effect.

It's not like she is hooked up to dozens of machines to stay alive. I think Christopher Reed had more machines hooked to him than she has hooked to her. She only has a feeding tube.

My heart breaks for her parents who are not ready to give up but are being forced to. They want God to work in His good time with their daughter. And of course Bush is in Florida today. He is the right to life president. Life at the beginning and at the end. Hurrah for him.

I don't think taking a feeding tube away from anyone is moral even if they are terminal or so old they can't feed themselves anymore. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Look how fast Christopher Reed went downhill and died. He was given a chance to fight and live for as long as he and his family wanted, why not this women? He wanted to die right after the accident but fortunately he had people around him who wanted him to live and they changed his mind. He had many more years with his family and his son got the chance to know his father.

I SAY LEAVE IT TO GOD. HE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 12:26 PM
ITA

We only have the word of her husband who has no more interest in her. How are we to know he is telling the truth? This is why such things are left in
God's hands. And if you think this is just silly to keep it going on then consider all the millions of people the ruling will effect.

It's not like she is hooked up to dozens of machines to stay alive. I think Christopher Reed had more machines hooked to him than she has hooked to her. She only has a feeding tube.

My heart breaks for her parents who are not ready to give up but are being forced to. They want God to work in His good time with their daughter. And of course Bush is in Florida today. He is the right to life president. Life at the beginning and at the end. Hurrah for him.

I don't think taking a feeding tube away from anyone is moral even if they are terminal or so old they can't feed themselves anymore. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Look how fast Christopher Reed went downhill and died. He was given a chance to fight and live for as long as he and his family wanted, why not this women? He wanted to die right after the accident but fortunately he had people around him who wanted him to live and they changed his mind. He had many more years with his family and his son got the chance to know his father.

I SAY LEAVE IT TO GOD. HE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.

That is why Michael Schiavo, despite all the hatred that is now directed against him, has the right to decide his wife’s fate. The decision about Terri’s life does not belong to the U.S. Congress, President Bush, Rep. Tom Delay of Texas, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the Florida Legislature, clerics in Rome, self-proclaimed disability activists, Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, conservative commentators, bioethicists or Terri’s parents. The decision is Michael’s and Michael’s alone.
Remember the recent debate about gay marriage and the sanctity of the bond between husband and wife? Nearly all of those now trying to push their views forward about what should be done with Terri Schiavo told us that marriage is a sacred trust between a man and a woman. Well, if that is what marriage means then it is very clear who should be making the medical decisions for Terri — her husband.

YNKYH8R
03-18-2005, 12:43 PM
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/COVER/050318/STG_HZ_TubeRemoved_1120a.jpg
Schiavo feeding tube reported removed
Senate, House Republican leaders had tried to intervene
NBC, MSNBC and news services
Updated: 3:25 p.m. ET March 18, 2005


PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - The feeding tube for Terry Schiavo, a seriously brain-damaged woman, was removed Friday, her husband's attorney told NBC News, after a protracted battle between Michael Schiavo and the woman's parents, who argued for her to remain alive.

janelle
03-18-2005, 01:06 PM
We hope that sacred trust was not violated here and her husband is telling the truth. All couples should take a lesson from this and get a living will signed and dated.

cavemtmomma
03-18-2005, 05:20 PM
Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Friday, March 18, 2005 5:41 p.m. EST

Terri: 'I Waaaannt [to Live]'

A mentally disabled woman whose court-ordered starvation-execution began Friday attempted to contradict her estranged husband's claim that she wants to die hours before her feeding tube was disconnected, an eyewitness is claiming.

Barbara Weller, an attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents, told reporters Friday afternoon that during her visit earlier in the day she told Ms. Schiavo: "Terri, if you would just say, 'I want to live,' all of this will be over."

According to pro-life activist Randall Terry, who recounted the scene to radio host Sean Hannity, Schiavo tried desperately to repeat Weller's words.

"'I waaaaannt ...,' Schiavo allegedly said, in a prolonged yell that had police stationed nearby running into her hospice room.

"She just started yelling, 'I waaaannt, I waaaannt,'" Terry said, according to Weller's account.

At that point police ejected Weller, he said.

YankeeMary
03-18-2005, 05:56 PM
ITA

We only have the word of her husband who has no more interest in her. How are we to know he is telling the truth? This is why such things are left in
God's hands. And if you think this is just silly to keep it going on then consider all the millions of people the ruling will effect.

It's not like she is hooked up to dozens of machines to stay alive. I think Christopher Reed had more machines hooked to him than she has hooked to her. She only has a feeding tube.

My heart breaks for her parents who are not ready to give up but are being forced to. They want God to work in His good time with their daughter. And of course Bush is in Florida today. He is the right to life president. Life at the beginning and at the end. Hurrah for him.

I don't think taking a feeding tube away from anyone is moral even if they are terminal or so old they can't feed themselves anymore. I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Look how fast Christopher Reed went downhill and died. He was given a chance to fight and live for as long as he and his family wanted, why not this women? He wanted to die right after the accident but fortunately he had people around him who wanted him to live and they changed his mind. He had many more years with his family and his son got the chance to know his father.

I SAY LEAVE IT TO GOD. HE KNOWS WHAT IS BEST.
It was up to God then man stepped in and added their tubes!!!

queenangie
03-18-2005, 05:59 PM
All couples should take a lesson from this and get a living will signed and dated.

ITA!

Make several copies and share with family members.
There there is no question on a person's wishes.

kidzpca
03-18-2005, 07:01 PM
That is why Michael Schiavo, despite all the hatred that is now directed against him, has the right to decide his wife’s fate. The decision about Terri’s life does not belong to the U.S. Congress, President Bush, Rep. Tom Delay of Texas, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the Florida Legislature, clerics in Rome, self-proclaimed disability activists, Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, conservative commentators, bioethicists or Terri’s parents. The decision is Michael’s and Michael’s alone.
Remember the recent debate about gay marriage and the sanctity of the bond between husband and wife? Nearly all of those now trying to push their views forward about what should be done with Terri Schiavo told us that marriage is a sacred trust between a man and a woman. Well, if that is what marriage means then it is very clear who should be making the medical decisions for Terri — her husband.

Prime example to make sure you have a living will...Terri living like she has the past 15 years is not living. Don't flame me but her quality of life is very very minimal at best. I know I've seen this woman personally as I used to live in the Clearwater, Florida area.

I understand her parents' and her siblings don't wish her to die. And want her to continue to live. But whom are they benefitting? Themselves more so than Terri. Terri is a shell of what she once was. She deserves peace after all this time. Allow her to pass in peace and let her husband and the rest of her family go in peace.

I'm sure it is very difficult for all involved but sometimes the best showing of true love is to let the love of your life go.

btw, my mother suffered two strokes and aneurysms of the brain more than 22 years ago that put her in comas several times. She however in the meantime was able to go back to living on her own after 10 years of intense therapy and great improvement. Terri however, has not shown real improvement in many years.

Jolie Rouge
03-18-2005, 07:20 PM
She however in the meantime was able to go back to living on her own after 10 years of intense therapy and great improvement. Terri however, has not shown real improvement in many years.

M. has not been allowed any meaningful therepy since 1992. How was she supposed to improve ?? Then to use her present condition as an excuse to kill her ?? If he really wanted to let her go with dignity I am sure he could have figured out something in the past 15 years. He has spent more money on lawyers fees than on her medical expenses ... that should show where his priorities lie.

cavemtmomma
03-18-2005, 08:50 PM
This is from terrisfight.org:

Most common misconceptions about Terri's situation

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)

FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

MYTH: Terri does not need rehabilitation
FACT: Florida Statute 744.3215 Rights of persons determined incapacitated:

(1) A person who has been determined to be incapacitated retains the right
(i) To receive necessary services and rehabilitation.

This is a retained right that a guardian cannot take away. Additionally, it does not make exception for PVS patients. Terri has illegally been denied rehabilitation - as many nurses have sworn in affidavits.

MYTH: Removal of food was both legal and court-ordered.
FACT: The courts had only allowed removal of Terri's feeding tube, not regular food and water. Terri's husband illegally ordered this. The law only allows the removal of "life-prolonging procedures," not regular food and water:

Florida Statute 765.309 Mercy killing or euthanasia not authorized; suicide distinguished. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act or omission to end life other than to permit the natural process of dying.

MYTH: Many doctors have said that there is no hope for her.
FACT: Dr. Victor Gambone testified that he visits Terri 3 times a year. His visits last for approximately 10 minutes. He also testified, after viewing the court videotapes at Terri’s recent trial, that he was surprised to see Terri’s level of awareness. This doctor is part of a team hand-picked by her husband, Michael Schiavo, shortly before he filed to have Terri’s feeding removed. Contrary to Schiavo’s team, 14 independent medical professionals (6 of them neurologists) have given either statements or testimony that Terri is NOT in a Persistent Vegetative State. Additionally, there has never been any medical dispute of Terri’s ability to swallow. Even with this compelling evidence, Terri’s husband, Michael Schiavo, has denied any form of therapy for her for over 10 years.

Dr. Melvin Greer, appointed by Schiavo, testified that a doctor need not examine a patient to know the appropriate medical treatment. He spent approximately 45 minutes with Terri. Dr. Peter Bambakidis, appointed by Judge Greer, spent approximately 30 minutes with Terri. Dr. Ronald Cranford, also appointed by Schiavo and who has publicly labeled himself “Dr. Death”, spent less than 45 minutes examining and interacting with Terri.

MYTH: This is just a family battle over money.
FACT: In 1992, Terri was awarded nearly one million dollars by a malpractice jury and an out-of-court malpractice settlement which was designated for future medical expenses. Of these funds, less than $50,000 remains today. The financial records revealing how Terri’s medical fund money is managed are SEALED from inspection. Court records, however, show that Judge Greer has approved the spending down of Terri’s medical fund on Schiavo’s attorney’s fees - though it was expressly awarded to Terri for her medical care. Schiavo’s primary attorney, George Felos, has received upwards of $400,000 dollars since Schiavo hired him. This same attorney, at the expense of Terri’s medical fund, publicly likened Terri to a “houseplant” and has used Terri’s case on national television to promote his newly published book.

MYTH: Michael Schiavo volunteered to donate the balance of the inheritance to charity.
FACT: In October, 1998, Schiavo’s attorney proposed that, if Terri’s parents would agree to her death by starvation, Schiavo would donate his inheritance to charity. The proposal came after a court-appointed Guardian Ad Litem cited Schiavo’s conflict of interest since he stood to inherit the balance of Terri’s medical fund upon her death. This one and only offer stated “if the proposal is not fully accepted within 10 days, it shall automatically be withdrawn”. Naturally, Terri’s parents immediately rejected the offer.

KarlaJorge
03-18-2005, 08:53 PM
That is why Michael Schiavo, despite all the hatred that is now directed against him, has the right to decide his wife’s fate. The decision about Terri’s life does not belong to the U.S. Congress, President Bush, Rep. Tom Delay of Texas, Florida Governor Jeb Bush, the Florida Legislature, clerics in Rome, self-proclaimed disability activists, Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, conservative commentators, bioethicists or Terri’s parents. The decision is Michael’s and Michael’s alone.
Remember the recent debate about gay marriage and the sanctity of the bond between husband and wife? Nearly all of those now trying to push their views forward about what should be done with Terri Schiavo told us that marriage is a sacred trust between a man and a woman. Well, if that is what marriage means then it is very clear who should be making the medical decisions for Terri — her husband.


Why so much insistence in this over and over, put yourself in a mother's shoes. What mother wants her child to die, in this or any other way, if she can live with just a feeding tube, LET HER LIVE!!

If there is no such proof written of that so called "HER DECISION", she must be let live. Her husband is "no game" to decide since he is CHEATER having another women at the same time and not respecting his wife at all. Why hasn't the court questioned that?

Why put her through such a cruel suffering, to die from starvation, what are people thinking? To me Michael Schiavo is just an AH, IMO.

Jolie Rouge
03-18-2005, 09:08 PM
Removal of a feeding tube is not the same as refusing her food & water - if M would allow it he parents would sit at her bedside and spoon feed her. But M. won't let her parents be with her except for short supervised visits.

If he is so convinced that she is in a vegataive state - contrary to what her parents and others have reported - why not let a news crew come in with their camereas ? 20/20; Dateline 48 Hours would JUMP at the chance. Would prove his point - or disprove it beyond a shadow of a doubt - what is he afraid of ?? All photos or video footage shot a Terri becomes his property as per court order - have you ever heard of such a thing ??

Jolie Rouge
03-18-2005, 09:32 PM
House GOPs Want Feeding Tube Reinserted
By MITCH STACY, Associated Press Writer

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - With a furious legal and political battle raging outside her hospice room, doctors removed Terri Schiavo's feeding tube Friday after a judge rebuffed an unprecedented attempt by Congress to keep the brain-damaged woman alive.


Schiavo, 41, could linger one to two weeks without the tube, provided no one intercedes and gets it reinserted — as happened twice before. Late Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court, without comment, denied an emergency request from the House committee that issued the subpoenas to reinsert Schiavo's feeding tube while the committee files appeals in the lower courts to have its subpoenas recognized.


Republicans on Capitol Hill used their subpoena power to demand that Schiavo be brought before a congressional hearing, saying removing the tube amounted to "barbarism." The attorney for Schiavo's husband shot back at a news conference, calling the subpoenas "nothing short of thuggery."


"It was odious, it was shocking, it was disgusting, and I think all Americans should be very alarmed about that," George Felos said.


The judge presiding over the case ruled in the husband's favor early Friday afternoon and rejected the request from House attorneys to delay the removal, which he had previously ordered to take place at 1 p.m. EST. Felos said Michael Schiavo was at his wife's side shortly after the tube was disconnected.


Meanwhile, Republican congressional leaders said in a statement that they planned to work through the weekend to try to save Terri Schiavo's life.


The removal of the tube signals that an end may be near in a decade-long family feud between Schiavo's husband and her devoutly Roman Catholic parents, Bob and Mary Schindler. The parents have been trying to oust Michael Schiavo as their daughter's guardian and keep in place the tube that has kept her alive for more than 15 years.


Michael Schiavo says his wife told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, saying she could get better and that their daughter has laughed, cried, smiled and responded to their voices. Court-appointed physicians testified her brain damage was so severe that there was no hope she would ever have any cognitive abilities.


"This is what Terri wanted. This is her wish," the husband said late Friday, making his first comments after the tube removal on CNN's "Larry King Live." He said he was angry that "government has just trampled all over my personal life."


The family is still hoping for a long-shot legal victory to have the tube re-inserted.


It is unclear how much time the family will have. The effects of such feeding tubes being removed can be seen by the third or fourth day, when the patient's mouth begins to look dry and the eyes appear sunken. From days five to 10, respiration becomes irregular with periods of very fast and then very slow breathing. By the final days, kidney function declines, toxins begin accumulating in the body, and multiple organ systems fail from lack of nutrition.


Court-appointed doctors have said Schiavo will not feel any pain given her state, but her parents' doctors dispute that.


Several right-to-die cases across the nation have been fought in the courts in recent years, but few, if any, have been this drawn-out and bitter.


The case has garnered attention around the world and served as a rallying cry for conservative Christian groups and anti-abortion activists, who flooded members of Congress and Florida legislators with messages seeking to keep Schiavo alive.


Outside Schiavo's hospice, about 30 people keeping vigil dropped to their knees in prayer when word spread of the judge's ruling calling for removal of the tube.


White House spokesman Scott McClellan said President Bush discussed the case with his brother, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, and members of the state's congressional delegation during his swing through Florida on Friday to discuss Social Security reform.


"We're continuing to monitor developments," McClellan said. "The president believes when there are serious questions or doubts in a case like this that the presumption ought to be in favor of life."


Gov. Jeb Bush said the judge's decision "breaks my heart" and noted that it often takes two decades for a death row inmate's appeals to go through the system. "There's this rush to starve her to death," Bush said.

But Rep. Henry Waxman of California, senior Democrat on the Government Reform Committee, called the subpoenas a "flagrant abuse of power" and said they amounted to Congress dictating the medical care Terri Schiavo should receive. "Congress is turning the Schiavo family's personal tragedy into a national political farce," Waxman said.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when a chemical imbalance apparently brought on by an eating disorder caused her heart to stop beating for a few minutes. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding and hydration tube to keep her alive.

Both sides accused each other of being motivated by greed over a $1 million medical malpractice award from doctors who failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance.

The Schindlers also said that Michael Schiavo wants their daughter dead so he can marry his longtime girlfriend, with whom he has young children. They have begged him to divorce their daughter, and let them care for her.

The tangled case has encompassed at least 19 judges in at least six different courts.

In 2001, Schiavo went without food and water for two days before a judge ordered the tube reinserted when a new witness surfaced.

When the tube was removed in October 2003, her parents and two siblings frantically sought intervention from Gov Jeb. Bush to stop her slow starvation. The governor pushed through "Terri's Law," and six days later the tube was reinserted.

That set off a new round of legal battles which culminated in September 2004 with the Florida Supreme Court ruling that Bush had overstepped his authority and declared the law unconstitutional.

On Feb. 25, Circuit Judge George Greer gave Michael Schiavo permission to order the removal of the feeding tube Friday. "I have had no cogent reason why the (congressional) committee should intervene," Greer told attorneys in a conference call Friday, adding that last-minute action by Congress does not invalidate years of court rulings.

The attorney for the parents said he would likely file a new appeal early next week with a federal appeals court. He also said he hoped lawmakers in Washington or Tallahassee could agree on legislation that would force the tube to be reinserted. Similar efforts have failed in the past. "I'm hopeful these men and women can get a strategy, get a focus, because we're running out of time," said attorney David Gibbs.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&e=1&u=/ap/brain_damaged_woman

janelle
03-18-2005, 11:20 PM
S P E C I A L A L E R T
C E N T E R F O R R E C L A I M I N G A M E R I C A

URGENT UPDATE




Terri Schiavo's forced starvation has begun!

Very shortly after the restraining order was lifted, Terri's feeding
tube was removed. This began the agonizing countdown to Terri's
death by forced starvation.

+ + Emergency Press Conference and Petition Delivery

I am heading to Tallahassee to urge Florida legislators to take
action immediately. I will have with me Kate Adamson and her husband
Steven. This wonderful woman recovered from a vegetative state and
is one of the strongest advocates on behalf of Terri.

+ + Action Needed -- Help Us Rally 50,000 Citizens to
Save Terri

We just crossed 150,00 petitions. I want to deliver 200,000 petitions
to Florida leaders.

our records show that you have stood with the Center
on life issues in the past, but have not yet signed our petition to Save
Terri.

PLEASE TAKE A MOMENT RIGHT NOW TO SIGN
THE PETITION TO SAVE TERRI:

http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?RID=7990607

We will be printing these petitions before our rally Monday afternoon.
Every petition received by NOON MONDAY will be represented at the rally.

+ + COME TO TALLEHASSEE + +

If you live near Tallahassee, please prayerfully consider coming and
lobbying the Florida Senate. We especially need the disabled to fill
the halls of the Senate.

+ + ANNOUNCE TERRI'S PLIGHT AT YOUR CHURCH!

I am calling on every team member to ask your pastor to make a special
announcement regarding Terri's plight in church this Sunday. Please
pray for Terri!


Dr. Gary Cass, Executive Director
CENTER FOR RECLAIMING AMERICA

P.S. I've included the contact information for the Florida Senators
who did not vote to save Terri. Please help us flood their emails
this weekend and make calls starting Monday morning.

+ + Sign the Petition to Save Terri (your petition will be delivered
Monday in Tallahassee to Florida leaders):

http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?RID=7990607

+ + FLORIDA SENATE CONTACT INFORMATION:
(Senators who did not vote to save Terri)

Senator Evelyn J. Lynn: (850) 487-5033 (Previously voted for Terri)
lynn.evelyn.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Burt L. Saunders: (850) 487-5124 (Previously voted for Terri)
saunders.burt.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Gary Siplin: (850) 487-5190
siplin.gary.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Tony Hill, Democratic Lead Whip
Phone: (850) 487-5024
hill.anthony.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Larcenia Bullard: (850) 487-5127
bullard.larcenia.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Les Miller: (850) 487-5059
miller.lesley.web@flsenate.gov

Senator J.D. Alexander: (850) 487-5044
alexander.jd.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Nancy Argenziano: (850) 487-5017
argenziano.nancy.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Mike Bennett: (850) 487-5078
bennett.mike.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Lisa Carlton: (850) 487-5081
carlton.lisa.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Paula Dockery: (850) 487-5040
dockery.paula.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Dennis Jones: (850) 487-5065
jones.dennis.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Jim King: (850) 487-5030
king.james.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Dave Aronberg: (850) 487-5356
aronberg.dave.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Walter Campbell: (850) 487-5094
campbell.walter.web@ flsenate.gov

Senator Steven Geller: (850) 487-5097
geller.steven.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Ron Klein: (850) 487-5091
klein.ron.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Gwen Margolis: (850) 487-5121
margolis.gwen.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Nan Rich: (850) 487-5103
rich.nan.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Rod Smith: (850) 487-5020
smith.rod.web@flsenate.gov

Senator Frederica Wilson: (850) 487-5116
wilson.frederica.web@flsenate.gov

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
The Center for Reclaiming America, established by Dr. D. James Kennedy,
is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public
and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles
on which our country was founded. The Center, led by Executive Director
Dr. Gary Cass, provides non-partisan, non-denominational information,
training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture
and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers.

Questions? cfra@coralridge.org

Jaxx
03-19-2005, 02:50 AM
this is just in humane to let her die this way :(

JKATHERINE
03-19-2005, 05:54 AM
Why so much insistence in this over and over, put yourself in a mother's shoes. What mother wants her child to die, in this or any other way, if she can live with just a feeding tube, LET HER LIVE!!

If there is no such proof written of that so called "HER DECISION", she must be let live. Her husband is "no game" to decide since he is CHEATER having another women at the same time and not respecting his wife at all. Why hasn't the court questioned that?

Why put her through such a cruel suffering, to die from starvation, what are people thinking? To me Michael Schiavo is just an AH, IMO.

Mistake signed in under different name.

YNKYH8R
03-19-2005, 05:56 AM
Why so much insistence in this over and over, put yourself in a mother's shoes. What mother wants her child to die, in this or any other way, if she can live with just a feeding tube, LET HER LIVE!!

If there is no such proof written of that so called "HER DECISION", she must be let live. Her husband is "no game" to decide since he is CHEATER having another women at the same time and not respecting his wife at all. Why hasn't the court questioned that?

Why put her through such a cruel suffering, to die from starvation, what are people thinking? To me Michael Schiavo is just an AH, IMO.

But, isn’t it true that tough questions have been raised about whether he has her best interests at heart? They have. But, these charges against Michael Schiavo have been heard in court again and again and again. And no court has found them persuasive.

YNKYH8R
03-19-2005, 05:58 AM
Why so much insistence in this over and over, put yourself in a mother's shoes. What mother wants her child to die, in this or any other way, if she can live with just a feeding tube, LET HER LIVE!!

I have thought about it. I believe it is more inhumane to allow her to live the way she is rather than let her go. If that was my daughter I would want her to live a fullfilling life, not this. I couldn't bare to watch her like this.

YNKYH8R
03-19-2005, 06:01 AM
Removal of a feeding tube is not the same as refusing her food & water - if M would allow it he parents would sit at her bedside and spoon feed her. But M. won't let her parents be with her except for short supervised visits.

If he is so convinced that she is in a vegataive state - contrary to what her parents and others have reported - why not let a news crew come in with their camereas ? 20/20; Dateline 48 Hours would JUMP at the chance. Would prove his point - or disprove it beyond a shadow of a doubt - what is he afraid of ?? All photos or video footage shot a Terri becomes his property as per court order - have you ever heard of such a thing ??
Because your opinion, my oinion, the medias opinion, (hell) the worlds opinion doesn't matter. He has the L-E-G-A-L right to do what he is doing. No matter if you hate it or wallow in it in glee this is just the way it is.

tigger4
03-19-2005, 07:17 AM
I am angry that the Congress is trying to circumvent our Constitution to pass a law about this case. There is a provision in the Constitution called a bill of attainder. What it means is the Congress cannot pass a law directed at a specific person, which is exactly what they are trying to do. It is unethical and illegal, but then again the House Majority leader Tom DeLay is being investigated for ethics violations so this really shouldn't surprise me.

kidzpca
03-19-2005, 07:40 AM
I have thought about it. I believe it is more inhumane to allow her to live the way she is rather than let her go. If that was my daughter I would want her to live a fullfilling life, not this. I couldn't bare to watch her like this.

I've thought about this for at least 3 years now with my own now 13 year old daughter. As she went through many many bone marrow aspirate procedures just to find out what was wrong with her. It took 5 bone marrow procedures, six months, a splenectomy (removal of her spleen) and many other tests including sending blood samples from michigan to St. Judes', Mayo Clinic, and other hospitals in California, Pennsilvania...etc.

Then intensive chemotherapy given to a then 11 year old, searching for a donor, through family, having her brother go through stem cell donation to her, months in a strange town, strange people--other doctors etc.

Having my dot lose her hair, weight to a dangerous level, having to decide on feeding tubes, the next treatment, deciding if the rashes she suffered were Graft Versus Host Disease, a potential killer if it goes beyond control as there are 4 stages.

Get my point...? I made so many life and death decisions for my dot between March 2002 and March 2004 before we felt comfortable enough that dot was going to actually survive. Cost in excess of 3 million, Yes 3 MILLION DOLLARS.

Today we still wait the remaining 2 and and half years before she will be considered Cancer free...

We worry everyday that CANCER will come back. Just the last 2 weeks I have seen 3 other kids that went through Chemotherapy and were considered in remission as my dot is go strait back to recurrance of cancer and prognosis for a second or third occurance of any cancer usually is DEATH.

I Personally would not want to live as Terri has the last 15 years, My dot doesn't want to live like Terri has and has told both my wife and I to not keep her alive if her life becomes a life of no progression and suffering.

IF told my dot was no longer "living" by Doctors and other health professionals then it is time to let the one's you love go... Last I knew there is no Greater Love on Earth. AND YES ONE DAY I MAY HAVE TO YET AGAIN MAKE A LIFE OR DEATH DECISION ON MY DAUGHTER'S BEHALF.

TammyJoR
03-19-2005, 07:47 AM
I just have one thing to say for all the ones that think what is being done to Terri is okay and should be done. I am glad I am not part of your family. As for I would know what was coming in my time of need. :(

The key to this is why did he wait to carry out her wishes why were they not done in the beginning instead of letting her get to the point where all she needs to live is a feeding tube and now wants her to die AFTER HE GOT THE MONEY FROM THE LAWSUIT he remembers oh ya she didnt want to live this way ChaChing I got the money now lets get rid of the wife. I am sorry but this is wrong wrong wrong.

kidzpca
03-19-2005, 08:07 AM
I just have one thing to say for all the ones that think what is being done to Terri is okay and should be done. I am glad I am not part of your family. As for I would know what was coming in my time of need. :(

The key to this is why did he wait to carry out her wishes why were they not done in the beginning instead of letting her get to the point where all she needs to live is a feeding tube and now wants her to die AFTER HE GOT THE MONEY FROM THE LAWSUIT he remembers oh ya she didnt want to live this way ChaChing I got the money now lets get rid of the wife. I am sorry but this is wrong wrong wrong.


All the more reason to make sure your family knows your wishes if for some reason you do become a person in a similar situation such as Terri.

KarlaJorge
03-19-2005, 01:17 PM
What kind of a man is Michael Shiavo??!!

To me is just a piece of SCRAP, not to say a worse word here, I have no respect for him. How does he appear now in such a pittiful scene saying that the government is trying to step over his life, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, and if the government is doing it to him they will do it to anyone, BS. This is so sad...

He has denied Terri with therapy and a lot of things that could determine if in fact she can or not recover. He has not given Terri's family the opportunity to care for her. Terri's mother has chosen not to give up on her, and she just does not approve to allow her to die.

Sure everybody has the right in such a situation to decide whever or not to let them or want them to die, to live or not live in this or any other similar condition. There is no written proof of what they is "HER WILL" and HER MOTHER HAS DECIDED SHE DOESN'T WANT HER TO DIE, THAT IS HER DECISION, and it should be respected whether or not Michael Schiavo is or not her husband, is or not her "guardian", "evil guardian" IMO.
He is not in the position to be taken seriously when he has not been an example. How can he say he loves her, when he is with another woman.

Instead of wasting the money in such BS, why didn't he allow it to be spent in a more positive way towards a better life for her and giving her a chance at therapy, be helped and maybe recuperate?? There have been many miracles in this life and Terri is no exception to that possibilty.

janelle
03-19-2005, 02:00 PM
Who said----The character of a society is in how they treat their weakest???

This is so true. Also a family's character.

I know a man who has taken care of his wife in their home since she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. It's been fourteen years now and she does not recognize him anymore. But you know he loves her just as much if not more than when they first married.

He could have just given up years ago, placed her into a carehome, and found another woman. To me this man is a hero. You can see it in his eyes when he speaks about her. When told he should go on vacation or put her into a carehome he just chuckes and says "oh no, I wouldn't want to do that".

I haven't seen the movie, "Notebook" but I bet it's the same way there. I hope people will learn lessons watching it and also seeing the Pope in his last days. Or watching your own love ones in their last days. It should be dignity until the end and loving care.

We do this more for ourselves than for them. We are the ones whose soul shrivels up when we can't be compassionate. How do we know what quality of life she has when she can't talk for herself. This is why we leave it to God to decide and we do all we can in our power to help them have a comfortable enviorment.

I also think we pull the plug more for ourselves than for them. We do not want to be reminded of our own immortality and what could happen to us. I see it in my own family with my aging mother. Some are more comfortable seeing her than others. I have been her main caretaker for years and you know what? The more you are around the ill an old the more you see how important they are and should be valued not abandoned. They have so much to teach us.

tigger4
03-19-2005, 02:39 PM
Sure everybody has the right in such a situation to decide whever or not to let them or want them to die, to live or not live in this or any other similar condition. There is no written proof of what they is "HER WILL" and HER MOTHER HAS DECIDED SHE DOESN'T WANT HER TO DIE, THAT IS HER DECISION, and it should be respected whether or not Michael Schiavo is or not her husband, is or not her "guardian", "evil guardian" IMO.
He is not in the position to be taken seriously when he has not been an example. How can he say he loves her, when he is with another woman.


First of all, it doesn't matter what her mother wants. He is her husband. Once you become an adult, your parents don't make your decisions for you anymore.

Second of all, who has the right to say he doesn't love her anymore? Just because he is now with someone else doesn't he doesn't love her. I still love my first serious boyfriend even though we are no longer together. I think a lot of people have someone they still love that they are no longer with.

janelle
03-19-2005, 04:02 PM
http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?PID=8379697&NID=1



EMERGENCY PETITION
Save Terri Schiavo!

UPDATE:
Terri Schiavo’s life is hanging in the balance. On March 18, 2005, the courts will decide whether to allow her husband to remove her feeding tube, which will cause Terri to starve to death. Right now, the Center for Reclaiming America is rallying all Americans to contact Florida’s legislature, urging the passage of H.B. 701 and S.B. 804—bills that could save Terri’s life..

107,000 PETITIONS DELIVERED TO TALLAHASSEE!:
The week this petition launched, the Center's Executive Director, Dr. Gary Cass, delivered more than 107,000 petitions to Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and other legislative leaders. More deliveries are planned. Please sign this EMERGENCY PETITION today! Then, alert your friends by forwarding the special “link” email message and help us rally tens of thousands of citizens.

ROSE RALLY FOR TERRI
On Sunday, March 13, 2005, hundreds gathered in Tallahassee at a “Rose Rally for Terri,” organized by the Center and more than a dozen national and Florida state groups.
FEDERAL LEGISLATION INTRODUCED:
On March 8, Rep. Dave Weldon (FL) and Sen. Mel Martinez (FL) introduced the “Incapacitated Persons Legal Protection Act” (H.R. 1151/S. 539). This bill, if passed, will protect the constitutional rights of Terri and other Americans who cannot speak for themselves.



The Petition States:


TO: Governor Jeb Bush, Florida Legislators, Federal Judges
CC: President George W. Bush
As a concerned citizen, I am signing this “Petition to Save Terri Schiavo” and I am urging you to take immediate action to stop the forced starvation of Terri Schiavo. It is vitally important to safeguard Terri’s right to life. Further, we cannot afford to set a legal precedent which puts the lives of other Americans at risk. I support legislative, judicial and executive efforts that will stop the forced starvation of Terri Schiavo.



Step1 - Sign the petition:
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This petition is sponsored by the Center for Reclaiming America. Established by Dr. D. James Kennedy, the Center is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles on which our country was founded. The Center provides non-partisan, nondenominational information, training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers.

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kidzpca
03-19-2005, 04:29 PM
USA - Allegan County, Mich - The Terri Schiavo case in Florida is very familiar to one West Michigan woman, as she faced a similar court battle 18 years ago.From Mary Martin's perspective, there was no gray area to her case. Her husband Michael told her he didn't want to be kept alive by a feeding tube. But to others involved with the care of patients, the answers aren't as black and white.

A train crash in January 1987 in Allegan County tore Mary Martin's family and life apart.

"We were pushed 986 feet down the track. That killed my seven-year-old daughter, Melanie, and severely brain-injured Michael," she told 24 Hour News 8.

For the next eight years, Mary battled to have the feeding tube that kept her husband alive removed. "We had talked about it many times. It was really his decision and I was trying to fulfill a promise that I made to him," she said.

The battle pitted Martin and her children against her husband's sister and parents who fought to keep the feeding tube in.

The state Supreme Court eventually decided the feeding tube could not be removed, as Michael Martin hadn't expressed his desires in writing.

Michael died in 2001, the result of an infection.

In Florida, Michael Schiavo's efforts to remove his wife's feeding tube have reopened some old wounds for Mary Martin. "I know what this man is going through. And until people have walked in our shoes, they should not judge," she said.

But to others who play a role in the lives of patients - like doctors - these cases present a modern day dilemma.

"It really isn't that easy, because medicine is dedicated to preserving life," Dr. James Applegate, a family physician, told 24 Hour News 8.

In both of these cases, Michael remained in at least a semi conscious state, as is Terri. But whether their reactions to voices and other stimuli was conscious or unconscious, is hard to know.

"In cases that sort of lie in this gray area, we never want to make an error. The analogy I use is with the death penalty - you never want to make a mistake because you can't get it back," adds Dr. Applegate.

Both Mary Martin and Dr. Applegate agree on one thing - people need to sit down with family members and their doctors to discuss their wishes early on, and avoid having those decisions end up in the hands of a judge.

kidzpca
03-19-2005, 04:43 PM
What kind of a man is Michael Shiavo??!!

To me is just a piece of SCRAP, not to say a worse word here, I have no respect for him. How does he appear now in such a pittiful scene saying that the government is trying to step over his life, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, and if the government is doing it to him they will do it to anyone, BS. This is so sad...

He has denied Terri with therapy and a lot of things that could determine if in fact she can or not recover. He has not given Terri's family the opportunity to care for her. Terri's mother has chosen not to give up on her, and she just does not approve to allow her to die.

I see Michael Shiavo as a very caring/loving husband... The government has no right to intervene. But since there is no living will the government steps in as it has for the past 15 years and where is the situation. No better than when this circus began.

Michael Shiavo has NOT denied therapy for Terri. INSURANCE STOPPED PAYING FOR THE CARE A LONG LONG TIME AGO...Insurance will only pay so much and for so long. They maxed out. The rest of the medical bills come out of the family pocket.

You think the Parents', Brother and Sister are paying? Perhaps a little but I seriously doubt it, this too only goes so far. Micael as her Husband is financialy responsible. You think his 1.6 Million dollars settlement should go for it?

Believe me the 1.6 million dollars was spent along time ago...and I don't mean on Michael Shiavo living the "High Life". All that money had to be spent before insurance would cover care again if it ever picked up payments after the money ran out.

dangerousfem
03-19-2005, 05:55 PM
"Michael Shiavo has NOT denied therapy for Terri. INSURANCE STOPPED PAYING FOR THE CARE A LONG LONG TIME AGO...Insurance will only pay so much and for so long. They maxed out. The rest of the medical bills come out of the family pocket."

"Believe me the 1.6 million dollars was spent along time ago...and I don't mean on Michael Shiavo living the "High Life""

If you look earlier in this thread.. you will see where Jolie has posted that hundreds of thousands of dollars has been spent on his lawyer.. not her medical bills

TammyJoR
03-19-2005, 06:01 PM
I see Michael Shiavo as a very caring/loving husband... The government has no right to intervene. But since there is no living will the government steps in as it has for the past 15 years and where is the situation. No better than when this circus began.
If anyone sees this man as loving and caring Then it is sad I would hate to see hateful and mean. And If a man loved his wife then he wouldnt be living with another woman having babies with her no matter what state she is in. The is love and Marriage is for better or for worst No matter what so before he got with his mistress he should have divorced Terri. That would have been love. Not what he is doing now. And if he was trying to carry out her wishes then he wouldnt have let it go this far in the first place.

Michael Shiavo has NOT denied therapy for Terri. INSURANCE STOPPED PAYING FOR THE CARE A LONG LONG TIME AGO...Insurance will only pay so much and for so long. They maxed out. The rest of the medical bills come out of the family pocket. He has denied her Therapy he was given a settlement which was to pay her medical bills with and he has spent it on lawyers to kill her not her Therapy to help her out. Last time I checked not spending money on what it was suppose to be used for was denying someone what they needed.

You think the Parents', Brother and Sister are paying? Perhaps a little but I seriously doubt it, this too only goes so far. Micael as her Husband is financialy responsible. You think his 1.6 Million dollars settlement should go for it? Maybe her parents arent now paying and may not in the future but is he paying you just said insurance stopped paying the settlement was not for him it was for her medical treatment and yes I think her money should go for her treatment. Not for him to have kids and another women. It was her settlement not his.

Believe me the 1.6 million dollars was spent along time ago...and I don't mean on Michael Shiavo living the "High Life". All that money had to be spent before insurance would cover care again if it ever picked up payments after the money ran out.
Yes the money was spent on Legal fees and high priced lawyers he got to Murder his life.

key to this is he should have divorced her Took "his" Her money and moved on with his life sense he did that already what does it matter really. Her family wants to take care of her and wants her alive. There is no living will there is only words from a man who has alot to gain by her being dead. So leave well enough alone I mean is she hurting him that much by being alive? If he has nothing to gain by it then he should be able to walk away and move on sense he already has how hard could it be for him.

TammyJoR
03-19-2005, 06:09 PM
Also wanted to add a loving husband makes her parents have supervised visits with their daughter whom they brought into the world?
Does not allow them to take pictures of their own daughter? Will not allow her to go outside? Wow I am really glad I am not loved like He loves Terri.

Jolie Rouge
03-19-2005, 06:19 PM
Congress reaches deal in Schiavo legal battle
Bush will return to White House to sign legislation
March 19, 2005

CRAWFORD, Texas - As Terri Schiavo’s mother pleaded for help from politicians Saturday and her brain-damaged daughter spent her first day without a feeding tube, congressional leaders announced agreement on legislation they said would allow Teri Shiavo to resume being fed.

“We laugh together, we cry together, we smile together, we talk together,” Mary Schindler told reporters as supporters maintained a vigil outside the hospice where her daughter is cared for. “Please, please, please save my little girl.”

President Bush will return to the White House on Sunday to be in place to sign emergency legislation that would shift the case of a brain-damaged Florida woman to federal courts, the White House said Saturday. "Everyone recognizes that time is important here," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.

'The fight is not over'

Republican leaders said they had struck a deal on legislation aimed at allowing Shiavo to resume being fed while a federal court decides the right-to-die battle between her parents and her husband. "We think we have found a solution" to the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a Capitol Hill news conference.

"I'm pleased to announce that House and Senate Republican leadership have reached an agreement on a legislative solution," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee said a few hours later at the start of a brief Senate session. "Under the legisltion we will soon consider Terry Schiavo will have another chance," said Frist.

"We are confident this compromise addresses everyone's concerns, we are confident it will provide Mrs. Schiavo a clear and appropriate avenue for appeal in federal court, and most importantly, we are confident this compromise will restore nutrition and hydration to Mrs. Schiavo as long as that appeal endures," DeLay said.

Final approval was hoped for Sunday when the House planned to meet in a special session, he said.

President Bush, who has said he favors a “presumption of life” for Schiavo, has said he would sign the bill into law as soon as it reached him. Schiavo, 41, could linger for one or two weeks if the tube is not reinserted — as has happened twice before.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7212079

kidzpca
03-19-2005, 06:38 PM
If you look earlier in this thread.. you will see where Jolie has posted that hundreds of thousands of dollars has been spent on his lawyer.. not her medical bills

Perhaps because so many people keep intervening in what should be a "Private Family Matter" Including the government.

Not trashing the gov't but...Terri has rights too. No one seems to be truly looking out for her best interest. It all revolves around them and not the real victim here...Terri.

dangerousfem
03-19-2005, 06:46 PM
see.. I don't agree.. you would have thought that money would have been used for tratment.. long before a major battle started over "her right to die" By the time he remembered that she didn't want to live like that... and her parents started really fighting him... that money should have been gone.

TammyJoR
03-19-2005, 06:51 PM
He remembered she didnt want to live like that when he got the settlement money... And yes Terri has rights. But sense she didnt tell anyone but Her husband that these were supposly her wishes then we dont know what her wishes were. I would think that she would have told more then just her husband that these were her wishes. I mean if you belived strongly about your wishes you would be sure many know what they were. And she didnt she told a man who just happened to remember that her wishes were xxxx when He had 1.6 million dollars in his pocket.

Jolie Rouge
03-19-2005, 07:50 PM
Congress Wages Feeding Tube War
PINELLAS PARK, Fla., March 19, 2005


http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/common/images/story_image_pop.gif
Pinellas Park police officers on Saturday arrest David Vogel, in back of vehicle, James "Bo " Gritz, center, and Leon Richie for trying to bring Terri Schiavo holy communion.


(CBS/AP) Congressional leaders hope to pass legislation on Sunday they said would allow a severely brain-damaged woman to resume being fed while a federal court decides the right-to-die battle between her parents and her husband. "We think we have found a solution" to the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a Capitol Hills news conference. "All sides agree that this is the best way to proceed."

Final approval was expected Sunday when the House planned to meet in a special session, he said.

DeLay said President Bush would sign the bill as soon as it got to him.

Schiavo's husband Michael lambasted lawmakers for getting involved.

"For Congress to come in and interfere in a personal family matter is outrageous. They can do it to me, they'll do it to every person in this country. And they should be ashamed of themselves. Leave my wife alone. Leave me alone. Take care of your own families," he said on CBS' Saturday Early Show.

Terri Schiavo's mother, on the other hand, pleaded for help from politicians Saturday as her brain-damaged daughter spent her first day without a feeding tube and protesters symbolically tried to smuggle bread and water to her.

"We laugh together, we cry together, we smile together, we talk together," Mary Schindler told reporters as supporters maintained a vigil outside the hospice where her daughter is cared for. "Please, please, please save my little girl."

Court-appointed physicians testified her brain damage was so severe that there was no hope she would ever have any cognitive abilities.

About three dozen supporters of Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, maintained a vigil outside the hospice where she lives. Four people, including right wing leader James Gordon "Bo" Gritz, were arrested on misdemeanor trespassing charges when they attempted to bring Schiavo bread and water, which she would be unable to consume.

"A woman is being starved to death, and I have to do something," said Brandi Swindell, 28, from Boise, Idaho. "There are just certain things that you have to do, that you have to try."

A spokesman for Schiavo's parents, Paul O'Donnell, later told reporters that they do not want supporters to engage in civil disobedience on their daughter's behalf.

"The family is asking that the protests remain peaceful," said O'Donnell, a Roman Catholic Franciscan monk.

Schiavo's parents have been attempting for years to remove Michael Schiavo as their daughter's guardian and keep in place the tube that has kept her alive for more than 15 years.

Schiavo suffered severe brain damage in 1990 when a chemical imbalance apparently brought on by an eating disorder caused her heart to stop beating for a few minutes. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding and hydration tube to keep her alive.

Republican lawmakers were rebuffed by state and federal courts Friday when they tried to halt the tube's removal by issuing subpoenas for Schiavo, her husband and caregivers to appear at congressional hearings. Gov. Jeb Bush criticized a "rush to starve her to death."

Michael Schiavo accused politicians of pandering to conservative politician groups by interfering in a personal, family matter.

"These people are pandering for votes. That's all," he said in a broadcast interview.

A White House spokesman, Jeanie Mamo, said the president, who was at his Texas ranch "was supportive of the efforts by congressional leaders. We remain in contact with Congress and the president is being kept apprised."

Saturday's legislative compromise was similar to a Senate bill passed Thursday that would let a federal court has jurisdiction in the Schiavo case. House Republicans had favored broader legislation that applied similar cases that questioned the legality of withholding food or medical treatment from people who are incapacitated.

Schiavo's feeding tube was disconnected Friday afternoon. Schiavo, 41, could linger for one to two weeks if no one intercedes and gets the tube reinserted.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said the legislation would move the case to federal court where a judge would determine who has the legal right to decide the question of nutrition and hydration for Schiavo and whether they can be terminated.

Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said the measure was "narrowly targeted," does not set a precedent and would allow Schiavo to resume being fed and hydrated during the legal appeals.

On Friday, Republicans used their subpoena power to demand that Schiavo be brought before a congressional hearing, with lawmakers saying that removing the tube amounted to "barbarism."

The Florida judge presiding over the case rejected the request from House lawyers to delay the tube's removal. Late Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court, without comment, denied an emergency request from the House committee that issued the subpoenas to reinsert Schiavo's feeding tube while the committee filed appeals in the lower courts to have its subpoenas recognized.

www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/19/national/main681754.shtml

Jolie Rouge
03-19-2005, 08:04 PM
Most common misconceptions about Terri's situation

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

MYTH: Terri does not need rehabilitation
FACT: Florida Statute 744.3215 Rights of persons determined incapacitated:

(1) A person who has been determined to be incapacitated retains the right
(i) To receive necessary services and rehabilitation.

This is a retained right that a guardian cannot take away. Additionally, it does not make exception for PVS patients. Terri has illegally been denied rehabilitation - as many nurses have sworn in affidavits.

MYTH: Removal of food was both legal and court-ordered.

FACT: The courts had only allowed removal of Terri's feeding tube, not regular food and water. Terri's husband illegally ordered this. The law only allows the removal of "life-prolonging procedures," not regular food and water:

Florida Statute 765.309 Mercy killing or euthanasia not authorized; suicide distinguished. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act or omission to end life other than to permit the natural process of dying.

Jolie Rouge
03-19-2005, 08:09 PM
Four people, including right wing leader James Gordon "Bo" Gritz, were arrested on misdemeanor trespassing charges when they attempted to bring Schiavo bread and water, which she would be unable to consume.

They were trying to bring her Holy Communion and administer the Rite of the Annointing of the Sick. As Terri was a practicing Catholic prior to this whole nightmare, how can her "loving husband" :rolleyes: justify refusing her this ?

YNKYH8R
03-20-2005, 04:34 AM
I haven't seen the movie, "Notebook" but I bet it's the same way there. I hope people will learn lessons watching it and also seeing the Pope in his last days. Or watching your own love ones in their last days. It should be dignity until the end and loving care.
LOL!!! LMAO!! Ha Ha! Janelle, go see the movie it is one of the best movies I've ever seen and has nothing to do with case. You people think that Terri isn't talking because she has nothing to say? No. She has irriversable brain damage.

YNKYH8R
03-20-2005, 04:37 AM
There is no written proof of what they is "HER WILL" and HER MOTHER HAS DECIDED SHE DOESN'T WANT HER TO DIE, THAT IS HER DECISION, and it should be respected whether or not Michael Schiavo is or not her husband, is or not her "guardian", "evil guardian" IMO.
He is not in the position to be taken seriously when he has not been an example. How can he say he loves her, when he is with another woman.

Karla her Mother has no legal standing as long as Terri is married. This is why we have marriage rights, to speak for our spouces when they can't. It is believed that the husband/wife has the best interests of the spouce in mind and has first hand knowledge of what the patient would want.
His 'example' is not debatable in court, and those times he was in court Terri's parents could prove otherwise.

YNKYH8R
03-20-2005, 04:42 AM
If you look earlier in this thread.. you will see where Jolie has posted that hundreds of thousands of dollars has been spent on his lawyer.. not her medical bills
Well maybe if the parents didn't keep taking him to court he wouldn't have had to spend it. :rolleyes:

YNKYH8R
03-20-2005, 04:59 AM
If Terri's condition was in fact brought on by an eating disorder do you really think she would have wanted to be left in this state? Some cases where people have an eating diorder it is because they have BDD. Whuch would contradict her wanting to look like or live like this.
Plus didn;t anyone ever think that the reason Michael doesn't just 'walk away' is because he knows what she wanted. And it hurts him to see her like this. A lot of people her make it seem like he sits back and laughs every time he thinks of her in her condition. Well guess what, no one here knows what is going through his mind. If some one was trying to force my wife to stay alive like this, when I know she wouldn't want to I'd fight as hard. Anything else would be a let down to my wife.

And it looks like our lovely governemtn is going to make some new laws. Does anyone know what kind of laws they'll be? What the details will be? Making new law isn't like baking cookies.First they don't want smae sex marriage, then they want to take away spousal privelage (and if that is what it is that will create a whirlwind of crap just you wait), what's next? :mad:

Linus1223
03-20-2005, 05:55 AM
Most common misconceptions about Terri's situation

MYTH: Terri is PVS (Persistent vegetative state)
FACT: The definition of PVS in Florida Statue 765.101:
Persistent vegetative state means a permanent and irreversible condition of unconsciousness in which there is:

(a) The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of ANY kind.
(b) An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

Terri's behavior does not meet the medical or statutory definition of persistent vegetative state. Terri responds to stimuli, tries to communicate verbally, follows limited commands, laughs or cries in interaction with loved ones, physically distances herself from irritating or painful stimulation and watches loved ones as they move around her. None of these behaviors are simple reflexes and are, instead, voluntary and cognitive. Though Terri has limitations, she does interact purposefully with her environment.

MYTH: Terri does not need rehabilitation
FACT: Florida Statute 744.3215 Rights of persons determined incapacitated:

(1) A person who has been determined to be incapacitated retains the right
(i) To receive necessary services and rehabilitation.

This is a retained right that a guardian cannot take away. Additionally, it does not make exception for PVS patients. Terri has illegally been denied rehabilitation - as many nurses have sworn in affidavits.

MYTH: Removal of food was both legal and court-ordered.

FACT: The courts had only allowed removal of Terri's feeding tube, not regular food and water. Terri's husband illegally ordered this. The law only allows the removal of "life-prolonging procedures," not regular food and water:

Florida Statute 765.309 Mercy killing or euthanasia not authorized; suicide distinguished. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to condone, authorize, or approve mercy killing or euthanasia, or to permit any affirmative or deliberate act or omission to end life other than to permit the natural process of dying.

This comes from terrisfight.org and is a website sponsored by people who want to keep her alive...I'd be curious to see actual myths and facts from a site that isn't biased.

dangerousfem
03-20-2005, 07:09 AM
Well maybe if the parents didn't keep taking him to court he wouldn't have had to spend it. :rolleyes:


The point is.. by the time her parents keep taking him to court... the money should have been GONE it was for her.. for therapy and medical treatments... which she didn't get..... if he had used it on what he was suppose to... there money wouldn't have been available to him to spend on lawyers... or anything else HE wanted... instead of what SHE needed.

YNKYH8R
03-20-2005, 07:54 AM
The point is.. by the time her parents keep taking him to court... the money should have been GONE it was for her.. for therapy and medical treatments... which she didn't get..... if he had used it on what he was suppose to... there money wouldn't have been available to him to spend on lawyers... or anything else HE wanted... instead of what SHE needed.
her condition is irreversable. That means that it cannot be undone. She has been in this state for 15-16 years. (she could have gone to high school all over again for the amount of time this has been going on.) If she was going to get better she would have by now.
Actually let me turn this one around. What treatment do you suggeest they perform on her to give her life back?!? What wonder drug did the doctors that care for her forget? What button do we push? What wand do we wave?

dangerousfem
03-20-2005, 09:27 AM
Since I am not a dr I can't name specific treatments... but what you are asking me has nothing to do with the actual topic of his spending the money on his needs instead of hers..if this were my husband.. I would have spent every dime to make sure I tried everything.

but if you want to move to a different one....ok..again in some of the previous posts by Jolie there have been several drs quoted as saying that in the past few years new treatments have become available that could help her.. but no one is allowed to try them on her... also.. there is a post about a women that was in the a "vegatative state" that came out of it after several yars (13 I think.. but to tired to read thru all the posts to double check) and again I guess the question comes back to... just because she won't be excatly like she was before does that mean her life is any less valuable? There are people in accidents everyday, that disable them, disfigure them, and change their life forever... since medicine can't "wave its magic wand, and push its magic button" to give them their old life back.. guess we should just lock them in a room and starve them to death... cause that is exactly what he is doing to her....

kidzpca
03-20-2005, 10:10 AM
Since some people insist that 1.6 million dollars goes far....Over the past three (3) years my dot's chemotherapy, surgeries (at least a dozen), stem cell transplant which involved a family stem cell donor so cost was a little less, a several weeks in the hospital in town and out of town 100 miles away...with a room charge, yes only room charge for 45 days stay of $169,000 and bills still coming in three years later in excess of $3,000,000 and counting. Yet my dot is considered healthy and active. What do you really think it cost for Terri's care over the past 15 years?

dangerousfem
03-20-2005, 10:14 AM
I'm not saying the money would have stretched for 15 yrs.. or that its not expensive.. what I am saying is that several years after he got the money.. FOR HER CARE .. he still had a very very large chunk of it to spend on a laywer for himself...infact.. your point, only proves mine... no way should there have been several hundred thousands of dollars left for him to wage a legal battle, if he had done all he could for his wife.. see?

kidzpca
03-20-2005, 10:27 AM
I've had a few patients that I have taken care of and making the decision to allow them to die after all other means to improve their lives (therapy, surgeries, and such) failed time and time again. Many Parents then came to conclusion that allowing their child to die peacefully IS in their best interest.

It is a difficult decision but if those people involved with Terri's care, including her Parent's, and Siblings need to examine whom they are doing this for...Terri's best interest or Their's.

The Family seems more intent on destroying each other rather than looking into Terri's wishes. This case should never have gone to the Supreme court 3 times in the past 5 years as it has already...It is a private family matter. No special laws need to be passed for one individual... but if the courts look at this case again perhaps someone outside the family will be able to see what is best for Terri since the Family will never agree and it will continue to go on and on if they keep control.

When all else fails...people have the right to die too.

Enough said.

onfire4god57
03-20-2005, 12:17 PM
For those of you who have been presenting a wide range of statements as 'truths' and other presumptive speculation culled from biased sources, you may find the following interesting. It will dispell many of the non-truths that have been spoken out on this thread.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

What follows are some questions about the history of the Terri Schiavo case as well as the best answers known to me. My focus on this case has always been from a legal perspective, though I've recently updated this section to address some questions I am repeatedly asked. In each answer, I try to indicate my source.


What happened to Terri?

The Second District's opinion in the first appeal in this case explains:

On February 25, 1990, . . . Theresa, age 27, suffered a cardiac arrest as a result of a potassium imbalance. Michael called 911, and Theresa was rushed to the hospital. She never regained consciousness.


I've heard Michael beat or strangled her nearly to death and that he wants her to die to cover up his abuse. What really happened?

I do not know this family and will not comment on whether any abuse occurred. I can, however, look to the case's history and point out some items that might be relevant to anyone considering this issue.

First, "Terri's Law" required the chief judge of the local circuit court to appoint a guardian ad litem (GAL) to examine Terri's case and advise the Governor. The chief judge appointed Dr. Jay Wolfson from the University of South Florida. Dr. Wolfson's December 2003 report to Governor Bush included this bit of factual history:

The cause of the cardiac arrest was adduced to a dramatically reduced potassium level in Theresa's body. Sodium and potassium maintain a vital, chemical balance in the human body that helps define the electrolyte levels. The cause of the imbalance was not clearly identified, but may be linked, in theory, to her drinking 10-15 glasses of iced tea each day. While no formal proof emerged, the medical records note that the combination of [Theresa's] aggressive weight loss, diet control and excessive hydration raised questions about Theresa from Bulimia, an eating disorder, more common among women than men, in which purging through vomiting, laxatives and other methods of diet control become obsessive.

Also relevant to questions about the cause of Terri's collapse is the lawsuit that Michael brought on Terri's behalf against Terri's doctors. The premise of that early 1990s lawsuit was that the doctors committed malpractice by failing to diagnose Terri's bulimia and that her bulimia led to her cardiac arrest. The case was tried to a jury, which ruled in Michael's favor, finding that Terri had bulimia, that her bulimia caused her cardiac arrest, and that the doctors were negligent in failing to diagnose the situation. The verdict was appealed, and before the appellate court could rule, the parties settled, with Michael recovering approximately $750,000 for Terri and $300,000 for himself.

After this case gained national attention in 2003, Gary Fox, the lawyer who represented Terri and Michael in that suit, wrote a stirring column concerning Terri's bulimia and how the tragic effects of that disease have been lost in the hoopla surrounding this case. The St. Pete Times still has that column online, and you can read it here.

The significance of the medical malpractice lawsuit can be seen in a few ways. A jury agreed that bulimia caused Terri's collapse. The defendants were her doctors -- one might think that they, of all people, would have been able to show that Terri had been beaten or strangled if that was what had occurred. Also, to believe that Michael caused Terri's collapse by beating her is to believe that Michael initiated a lawsuit against someone else for causing her collapse, opening the whole matter to serious inquiry and greatly increasing the risk that someone would discover his role.

Finally, I am not aware that anyone -- not the paramedics, doctors, nurses, family members, friends, or anyone else -- who saw Terri in the hours, weeks, and months after her collapse ever suggested at the time that Terri had been beaten or strangled.

As I said above, I am not commenting on whether any abuse actually occurred. I don't know.

But isn't there a bone scan that shows Terri was beaten?

I honestly don't know. What I understand is that a bone scan was taken in 1991 and that the doctor who read it saw on it evidence of past trauma at various places on Terri's body. Some consider that evidence of a severe beating by her husband, others consider it evidence consistent with bulimia, a fall, and CPR by paramedics. Whether trauma really happened, or what kind, or when, are all unclear.

The bone scan was not raised in the original trial regarding Terri's wishes. The issue was raised by the Schindlers in a November 2002 emergency motion. Judge Greer rejected the matter as being irrelevant to the issue of Terri's wishes. See the order linked in the timeline above.

What's happened to Terri since her collapse?

The Second District's first opinion in this case explained:

Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fed and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had numerous health problems, but none have been life threatening.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.

In a later opinion in the same case, the Second District further explained:

Although the physicians are not in complete agreement concerning the extent of Mrs. Schiavo's brain damage, they all agree that the brain scans show extensive permanent damage to her brain. The only debate between the doctors is whether she has a small amount of isolated living tissue in her cerebral cortex or whether she has no living tissue in her cerebral cortex.

onfire4god57
03-20-2005, 12:19 PM
Did she have a living will?

No. If she had, this case would probably never have generated much controversy. The one sure lesson to be taken from all of this is that each of us should have a living will. Florida law permits living wills and defines how and when they may be effective.

Terri is given food and water through tubes. Is disconnecting a feeding tube the same as ending life support?

Yes, under Florida law, which governs the ability of each person to determine, or to appoint someone to determine, whether each of us should receive what the Legislature terms "life-prolonging medical procedures." The Legislature has explained:


The Legislature recognizes that for some the administration of life-prolonging medical procedures may result in only a precarious and burdensome existence. In order to ensure that the rights and intentions of a person may be respected even after he or she is no longer able to participate actively in decisions concerning himself or herself, and to encourage communication among such patient, his or her family, and his or her physician, the Legislature declares that the laws of this state recognize the right of a competent adult to make an advance directive instructing his or her physician to provide, withhold, or withdraw life-prolonging procedures, or to designate another to make the treatment decision for him or her in the event that such person should become incapacitated and unable to personally direct his or her medical care.
§ 765.102(3), Florida Statutes.

The Legislature has also defined what is a "life-prolonging procedure":


"Life-prolonging procedure" means any medical procedure, treatment, or intervention, including artificially provided sustenance and hydration, which sustains, restores, or supplants a spontaneous vital function. The term does not include the administration of medication or performance of medical procedure, when such medication or procedure is deemed necessary to provide comfort care or to alleviate pain.
§ 765.101(10), Florida Statutes.

Why did Terri’s husband get to make the decision about whether she should live or die?

Michael Schiavo did not make the decision to discontinue life-prolonging measures for Terri.

As Terri's husband, Michael has been her guardian and her surrogate decision-maker. By 1998, though -- eight years after the trauma that produced Terri's situation -- Michael and Terri's parents disagreed over the proper course for her.

Rather than make the decision himself, Michael followed a procedure permitted by Florida courts by which a surrogate such as Michael can petition a court, asking the court to act as the ward's surrogate and determine what the ward would decide to do. Michael did this, and based on statements Terri made to him and others, he took the position that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures. The Schindlers took the position that Terri would continue life-prolonging measures. Under this procedure, the trial court becomes the surrogate decision-maker, and that is what happened in this case.

The trial court in this case held a trial on the dispute. Both sides were given opportunities to present their views and the evidence supporting those views. Afterwards, the trial court determined that, even applying the "clear and convincing evidence" standard -- the highest burden of proof used in civil cases -- the evidence showed that Terri would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.

Why didn’t the court appoint a guardian other than Terri’s husband to speak for her?

The trial judge could have utilized a guardian ad litem as a neutral party to speak for Terri, but in the end the trial judge did not do so. The Second District affirmed this decision and explained its rationale in this way:


Under these circumstances, the two parties, as adversaries, present their evidence to the trial court. The trial court determines whether the evidence is sufficient to allow it to make the decision for the ward to discontinue life support. In this context, the trial court essentially serves as the ward's guardian. Although we do not rule out the occasional need for a guardian in this type of proceeding, a guardian ad litem would tend to duplicate the function of the judge, would add little of value to this process, and might cause the process to be influenced by hearsay or matters outside the record. Accordingly, we affirm the trial court's discretionary decision in this case to proceed without a guardian ad litem.

Why didn’t Terri’s parents get a chance to prove that Terri wouldn’t want her feeding tube to be removed?

They did. As explained above, the trial judge held a trial on this issue and determined that the evidence clearly and convincingly showed that Terri would not want to continue life-prolonging measures in her current state.

Can't the parents appeal the trial judge's decision, and shouldn't conflicting evidence be judged in favor of continuing life?

The Schindlers did appeal, and the Second District determined that while a surrogate decision-maker should err on the side of life, the trial judge had sufficiently clear and convincing evidence to determine that Terri would not wish to continue the life-prolonging measures she needs to live. The appellate court explained:


The Schindlers argue that the testimony, which was conflicting, was insufficient to support the trial court's decision by clear and convincing evidence. We have reviewed that testimony and conclude that the trial court had sufficient evidence to make this decision. The clear and convincing standard of proof, while very high, permits a decision in the face of inconsistent or conflicting evidence. See In re Guardianship of Browning, 543 So. 2d at 273.

In Browning, we stated:

In making this difficult decision, a surrogate decisionmaker should err on the side of life… In cases of doubt, we must assume that a patient would choose to defend life in exercising his or her right of privacy.
In re Guardianship of Browning, 543 So.2d at 273. We reconfirm today that a court's default position must favor life.

The testimony in this case establishes that Theresa was very young and very healthy when this tragedy struck. Like many young people without children, she had not prepared a will, much less a living will. She had been raised in the Catholic faith, but did not regularly attend mass or have a religious advisor who could assist the court in weighing her religious attitudes about life-support methods. Her statements to her friends and family about the dying process were few and they were oral. Nevertheless, those statements, along with other evidence about Theresa, gave the trial court a sufficient basis to make this decision for her.

In the final analysis, the difficult question that faced the trial court was whether Theresa Marie Schindler Schiavo, not after a few weeks in a coma, but after ten years in a persistent vegetative state that has robbed her of most of her cerebrum and all but the most instinctive of neurological functions, with no hope of a medical cure but with sufficient money and strength of body to live indefinitely, would choose to continue the constant nursing care and the supporting tubes in hopes that a miracle would somehow recreate her missing brain tissue, or whether she would wish to permit a natural death process to take its course and for her family members and loved ones to be free to continue their lives. After due consideration, we conclude that the trial judge had clear and convincing evidence to answer this question as he did.


Was Michael the only person who testified about Terri's supposed statements on her views about living on life support?

No, others did as well, and when making the decision in the case, the trial judge took into account all of that testimony and additional evidence. As the Second District explained:

We note that the guardianship court's original order expressly relied upon and found credible the testimony of witnesses other than Mr. Schiavo or the Schindlers. We recognize that Mrs. Schiavo's earlier oral statements were important evidence when deciding whether she would choose in February 2000 to withdraw life-prolonging procedures. See § 765.401(3), Fla. Stat. (2000); In re Guardianship of Browning, 568 So. 2d 4, 16. Nevertheless, the trial judge, acting as her proxy, also properly considered evidence of Mrs. Schiavo's values, personality, and her own decision-making process.

Did the trial judge reach the right decision?

The "right" decision would be whatever decision Terri would make. I did not attend the trial, and I have not even reviewed the trial record. I do not pretend to know what the "right" decision would be.

onfire4god57
03-20-2005, 12:20 PM
Why has this case become such a controversy?

This case has become such a controversy because of Terri's parents' insistence that their daughter would not wish to die under these circumstances and their claim that Terri is conscious and responsive to stimulation.

The case has also become controversial because, for years, Terri's parents have publicly questioned Michael's motives for wanting to discontinue Terri's life support. Specifically, they have charged that Michael remains Terri's husband and is working to end her life so he can inherit whatever money remains from a $1 million 1993 medical malpractice settlement Michael recovered on behalf of himself and Terri. Presumably, if Michael divorced Terri, then he would not have access to Terri's portion of the money, and upon her death her parents would inherit it. News reports also indicate that Michael is engaged to another woman.

Is Michael really just looking for money?

I have no way to know. I know what the Schindlers say to reporters, but then I know that the Second District's first decision in the case used these words to describe Michael's care for Terri:


Theresa has been blessed with loving parents and a loving husband. Many patients in this condition would have been abandoned by friends and family within the first year. Michael has continued to care for her and to visit her all these years. He has never divorced her. He has become a professional respiratory therapist and works in a nearby hospital. As a guardian, he has always attempted to provide optimum treatment for his wife. He has been a diligent watch guard of Theresa's care, never hesitating to annoy the nursing staff in order to assure that she receives the proper treatment.
Recently, Michael received an offer of $1 million, and perhaps a second offer of $10 million, to walk away from this case and permit Terri's parents to care for her. These offers, assuming there were two, were based on a misunderstanding of the situation here. Michael lacks the power to undo the court order determining Terri's wishes and requiring the removal of her feeding tube. He did not make the decision and cannot unmake it. The court made the decision on Terri's behalf. Nonetheless, Michael apparently rejected each offer.

What about the Schindlers' claims that Terri is conscious and responds to stimulation?

When the Second District first reviewed the trial court's decision that Terri would chose not to live under her present circumstances, the appellate court expressed no reservations when it explained that Terri was and "will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others…" In October, 2002, as a result of Terri's parents' claims that treatment options offered promise to restore some of Terri's cognitive functioning, the Second District ordered the trial court to hold a trial on that issue. The trial court did so, and in the course of that trial the parties litigated whether Terri is in a persistent vegetative state.

The trial court heard testimony from five experts: two selected by Michael, two selected by the Schindlers, and one independent expert selected by the trial court. The two experts selected by Michael and the independent expert agreed that Terri was in a persistent vegetative state and that her actions were limited to mere reflexes. The two experts chosen by the Schindlers disagreed, but the trial court found their positions not credible. For instance, the trial court explained:

At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.

The experts also disagreed about whether any treatment could improve Terri's condition. The two experts selected by the Schindlers each proposed a potential therapy method, but the trial court rejected both of them based on "the total absence of supporting case studies or medical literature."

Affirming those decisions, the Second District explained that it, too, reviewed the videotapes of Terri in their entirety as well as Terri's brain scans. The appellate court explained that it not only affirmed the decision but that, were it to review the evidence and make its own decision, the court would reach the same result reached by the trial court.

Were the Schindlers' doctors given an opportunity to examine Terri?

Yes. As the Second District explained:

Through the assistance of Mrs. Schiavo's treating physician, Dr. Victor Gambone, the physicians obtained current medical information about Theresa Schiavo including high-quality brain scans. Each physician reviewed her medical records and personally conducted a neurological examination of Mrs. Schiavo. Lengthy videotapes of some of the medical examinations were created and introduced into evidence. Thus, the quality of the evidence presented to the guardianship court was very high, and each side had ample opportunity to present detailed medical evidence, all of which was subjected to thorough cross-examination. It is likely that no guardianship court has ever received as much high-quality medical evidence in such a proceeding.

What about the video clips that show Terri reacting to her mother?

The court opinions indicate that similar videos were viewed in their entirety by the trial court, which found that Terri's actions were no more than reflexive and could not be reproduced with any consistency. The Second District affirmed that decision.

by Matt Conigliaro
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html

cavemtmomma
03-20-2005, 12:22 PM
If you starve a horse or dog you will see jail time if you're caught. If you don't feed your kids ENOUGH you will have them taken away. So according to some people Terris life is less valuable than those examples. Have you stopped to consider that Terri is less incapacitated than Christopher Reeves was? Lucky for Mr. Reeve his wife didn't go find a new lover and want him dead. She wouldn't have had to even starve him, she couldv'e just turned off his resperator.The only court testimony about Terri's wishes were from her husband who said that upon viewing someone with catastrophic injury Terri said she wouldn't want to live that way. At the time she supposedly said this starving people to death was not an option. Two other people testified that her husband told them that she said this. They were his sister and brother-in-law. It was hearsay eveidence and was only allowed because her case is being heard in PROBATE court. This is the same husband who denied Terri treatment for a urinary tract infection. If you've ever had one you know that they are very painful and debilitating. Why would someone who claims to care for her want her to suffer through that? I guess alot of you would like to see my step-daughter starved to death too. She's 18, she's Down syndrome, Autisitic and suffers from the effects of abuse by her birth mother. Unlike Mike Shiavo we didn't get any big settlements to take care of her. So the state foots the bill for her around the clock care. Unlike Terri it is known that there is virtually no chance she will ever get better.I raised her from the age of three until she was seventeen. She has never once called me "Mom" or said "I love you" because she doesn't talk. Once it's ok to starve one inconvieniant person where does it stop? Terri, like my daughter, has a mom who loves her and wants to care for her. If you kill Mrs. Schindler's daughter, will mine be next?

PS as far as the court having seen tapes of Terri the current judge hearing this case and ignoring the federal subpeona is Judge Greer and he is LEGALLY BLIND so he has NEVER seen a tape of Terri

dangerousfem
03-20-2005, 12:29 PM
"Was Michael the only person who testified about Terri's supposed statements on her views about living on life support?"

Who were these other people? I had heard that no one else had ever heard her say this first hand... not her husband telling them she said it.

cavemtmomma
03-20-2005, 12:37 PM
Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST

Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified: "At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.

"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that b**** gonna die?'"

TammyJoR
03-20-2005, 04:07 PM
Now the loving husband "Choke choke" is stopping her family from being with her or seeing her while she is dying. What is next. What a peice of work he is.

Jolie Rouge
03-20-2005, 07:17 PM
Plus didn;t anyone ever think that the reason Michael doesn't just 'walk away' is because he knows what she wanted. And it hurts him to see her like this. A lot of people her make it seem like he sits back and laughs every time he thinks of her in her condition. Well guess what, no one here knows what is going through his mind. If some one was trying to force my wife to stay alive like this, when I know she wouldn't want to I'd fight as hard. Anything else would be a let down to my wife.


Just an example - Terri was a practicing Catholic prior to her illness; M. has refused to allow her Last Rites or honor a Catholic burial as he plans on having her cremated. Just yesterday he had people arrested that were trying to bring her Holy Communion and to give her the sacrement of Annointing of the Sick. If he were trying to think of what she wanted would he be doing this ??

She never told anyone else she would want to "live like this" but M. In fact, several people besides her parents, her brother and her sister have said that she has said the exact opposite.

Please read Cavemtmomma's research from NewsMax.com (( Thank you - I had heard this information but had not found it on the internet.))

Cindee
03-20-2005, 07:28 PM
What woman in their 20's could actually say what they want in life(at the time it happend to her)? I'm the same age as she is now and I'm sick about it. 1990

Feb - Terri Collapses in her home

May - Terri discharged from Humana Hospital in St Petersburg, Florida.

Dec - Terri taken to California for experimental implant


1991

Feb - Terri moved to home with husband.

Jan - Terri moved to Bradenton Mediplex Rehabilitation Center.

Apr - Terri's condition is assessed as improving.

Apr - Terri's husband advised to move her to Gainesville Rehabilitation Center to receive advanced therapy to continue Terri's recovery.

Jul - Terri moved to Sable Palms Nursing Home.


1992

Aug - Terri awarded $250,000 in malpractice settlement.

Nov - Terri awarded $1.4 million in malpractice trial.

Nov - Michael Schiavo awarded $600,000 in malpractice trial.


1993

Feb - Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment.

Feb - Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri.

Feb - Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents.

Feb - Schiavo posts Do not Resuscitate order in Terri's medical chart.

Jun - Schiavo threatens Schindler family with lawsuit.

Aug - Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.

Sep - Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian.

Nov - Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death.


1994

Feb - Judge Penick dismisses guardianship suit.

Apr - Terri moved to Palm Gardens Nursing Home.


1995

Sep - Schiavo orders Palm Gardens not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection.


1996

Jun - Terri's parents obtain court order for access to Terri's medical records.


1997

May - Judge Shames approves Schiavo action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.

Jul - Schiavo's engagement to Jodi Centonze announced.

Aug - Attorney Felos's letter notifying Terri's parents of action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.


1998

Jun - Guardian ad Litem appointed by court to investigate Terri's case.

Oct - Schiavo offers to donate Terri's inheritance to charity if family agrees to allow removal of her hydration and nutrition.

Dec - Guardian ad Litem recommends the court not approve Schiavo's petition.


1999

Feb - Attorney George Felos files bias charges against Guardian ad Litem.

Jun - Guardian ad Litem dismissed by the court.


2000

Jan - Judge Greer Conducts Terri’s Feeding Tube Removal Trial.

Feb - Greer Rules to Remove Nutrition Feeding Tube.

Feb – Affidavits filed by 3 doctors state Terri can swallow and is not PVS.

Feb - Greer denies petition to allow Terri swallowing tests.

Apr - Terri Moved from Palm Gardens Nursing Home to Hospice Facility.

Apr - Greer denies motion to return Terri to Palm Garden Nursing home.

Apr - Greer imposes restricted visitor list for Terri.

Jul - Appeal filed with Appellate Court to overturn Greer’s verdict.

Nov - Appellate Court Conducts Oral Arguments.


2001

Jan 25 - The appellate court upholds Judge Greer’s ruling to remove Terri's feeding..

Feb. 8 - Motion for an Appellate Court rehearing or clarification - Denied.

Mar 12 - Schiavo petitions to remove Terri’s feeding immediately.

Mar 23 - Florida Supreme Court denies motion with the to review Terri's case.

Mar 22 - Appellate Court issued a 30 day execution stay.

Mar 29 - Judge Greer moves up feeding removal date to April 20, 2001.

Apr 1 - The Appellate Court denies extending Terri's stay of execution.

Apr 12 - Attorney Anderson files motion disqualify Judge Greer.

Apr 16 - Judge Greer denies disqualification motion.

Apr 18 - The Florida Supreme Court refuses to hear Terri’s case & denies Stay.

Apr 19 - The Federal Court claimed the issue was beyond that court's jurisdiction.

Apr 23 - The US Supreme Court refused to hear Terri’s case.

Apr 24 - Terri Feeding was terminated.

Apr 25 - Schiavo bans Terri brother and sister from visiting Terri.

Apr 25 - Schiavo ex girlfriend (Cyndi) reveals Schiavo lied about Terri’s death wishes.

Apr 26 - Judge Greer refuses to hear new evidence about Schiavo’s lying.

Apr 26 - New evidence compels Civil court Judge Quesada to resume Terri's feeding.

Apr 30 - Schiavo files an emergency motion to have Terri's nutritional feeding stopped.

May 7 - Affidavit filed by Dr. Hammesfahr (neurology) states Terri is not in a PVS.

May 7 - Schiavo charged in the Civil Court with fraud.

May 8 - Schiavo ex girlfriend (Cyndi) refuses to testify for fear of Schiavo.

May 9 - The 2nd District Court of Appeals announces "Oral Arguments Hearing" date.

May 11 - Schiavo motion to negate Judge Quesada's order denied.

Jun 1 - Affidavits by five (5) Doctors were filed stating Terri was not in a PVS.

Jun 1 - Schiavo excused from rendering his deposition.

Jun 18 - Schiavo files an affidavit that Terri is in an irreversible vegetative.

Jun 21 - Chief Judge Demers gave Judge George Greer's Court authority to decide whether Terri should have any new medical evaluation or treatment.

Jun 25 - A three-member panel presided at the Appellate Court hearing.

Jul 11 - The Appellate Court ordered Greer court to conduct evidentiary hearings. The court denied Schiavo's attorneys request to order Terri's feeding stopped.

July 23 - Schiavo filed a motion for Judge Greer to immediately stop Terri's feeding.

Aug 7 - Judge Greer totally ignored or rationalized all the evidence presented to him. Orders Terri's feeding stopped on August 28, 2001.

Aug 10 - Attorney Anderson motion to disqualify Judge Greer denied.

Aug 14 - Greer denies request for Conducting Terri Medical Examinations.

Aug 16 - Attorney Anderson files a Notice of Appeal with the 2nd District Appeal Court.

Aug 17 - Judge Greer grants Terri a stay of execution until October 9, 2001.

Aug 20 - Schiavo files with the 2nd District Appeal Court to overrule Judge Greer stay.

Oct 7 - 2nd District Appeal Court orders Terri to be neurological tested.

Oct 23 - Schiavo files a motion to reverse the Appellate Court neurological tests order.

Nov 1 - The 2nd District Court of Appeals denies Schiavo's motion..

Nov 16 - Terri's medical testing plan will be determined before a mediator.

Dec 19 - Attorneys meet with a mediator in an attempt to agree upon the tests .


2002

Jan 18 - Mediated agreement failed, testing is back Greer’s courtroom to be resolved.

Jan 25 - Attorney Anderson petitioned the court for an evidentiary guardianship hearing.

Jan 29 - Judge Greer approved Schiavo's motion to cancel the evidentiary hearing.

Feb 7 - Schiavo files with the Florida Supreme Court to overturn the Appellate Court's October ruling which spared Terri's life.

Mar 14 - The Florida Supreme Court denied Michael Schiavo’s appeal.

Jun 19 - Schiavo objects to the medical and neurological testing.

Jul 1 - Judge Greer conducted a 3+ hr hearing involving three issues:
1. Schiavo’s Plan to Enroll Terri into a Medicaid Program
2 Termination of Schiavo's Attorney Fees
3. Equal Payment for Terri's Examining Doctors

Jul 10 - Court Hearing again was for the purpose of allowing certain medical tests that were requested to evaluate Terri’s true medical and neurological condition.

Jul 12 - Judge Greer ruled -not-to-pay- Terri’s doctors for their professional fees to examine Terri. Notably, in a previous hearing, Judge Greer -approved- payment for Schiavo’s doctors fees.

Jul 22 - Judge Greer approved three of Terri’s desired neurological tests and rejected a dozen other.

Aug 28 - Judge Greer established the dates for Terri's trial.

Oct 2 - Schiavo files petition to prohibit the media from seeing Terri’s recent neurological examination videotapes or airing the video’s to the public after they have been presented to the court as evidence.

Oct 2 - Schiavo petitioned the court to authorize Terri’s cremation.

Oct 11-22 Terri’s trial

Nov15 - Judge Greer conducted a hearing in response to a motion Attorney Anderson filed requesting time to investigate recent evidence suggesting Terri’s heart failure may have been caused by physical abuse.

Nov 22 - Greer orders Terri’s starvation death to begin on Jan 3, 2003.

Dec 9 - Attorney Anderson filed a ‘Notice of Appeal’ to the 2nd District Appellate Court.

Dec 9- Attorney Anderson filed a motion with Judge Greer to ‘stay’ the January 3rd feeding termination date.

Dec 10 - Schiavo filed a motion with Judge Greer to strike attorney Anderson’s motion to ‘stay,’ requesting a court hearing to argue his objection.

Dec 13 - Judge Greer acquiesced to Michael Schiavo’s attorney motion to conduct a hearing, which resulted in a ‘stay’ being granted, pending appellate resolution.

Dec 18 - Schiavo filed a motion with the 2nd District Appellate Court to overturn Judge Greer’s December 13th order.

Dec 23 - The 2nd Appellate Court denied Michael Schiavo’s attorney motion to overturn Judge Greer’s December 13, 2002 ‘stay’ order. Furthermore, the Appellate Court established filing dates and scheduled Appellate oral arguments to take place on April 4, 2003.

Jolie Rouge
03-20-2005, 07:35 PM
After reading Cindee's post I have to ask : "How much is Greer being paid ?"

Jolie Rouge
03-20-2005, 07:51 PM
Senate Passes Legislation on Schiavo Case
By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Senate passed a bill that could prolong Terri Schiavo's life while House Republicans, stalled by Democrats, scrambled to bring enough lawmakers back to the Capitol for an emergency vote early Monday.

President Bush rushed back from his Texas ranch for a chance to sign the measure that could trigger a federal court review and a quick restoration of feeding tubes needed to keep the brain-damaged Florida woman alive.

Republican supporters said the "Palm Sunday Compromise" would protect the constitutional rights of a disabled person, and denied suggestions that they viewed the case as an opportunity to shore up support among religious conservatives ahead of next year's elections.

The House began debate on the legislation anew late Sunday, with the plan to vote just past midnight, hours after the Senate approved the bill by voice vote. "As millions of Americans observe the beginning of Holy Week this Palm Sunday we are reminded that every life has purpose and none is without meaning," said House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., a leader in crafting the bill.

But Rep. Jim Davis, D-Fla., said the congressional action was "a clear threat to our democracy." Congress, he said, was ignoring the constitutional separation of power and "is on the verge of telling states, courts, judges and juries that their opinions, deliberations and decisions do not matter."

The White House said the president would act as soon as the measure reaches him. "We ought to err on the side of life in a case like this," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan. Asked about a bill that would cover a single person, he said, "I think most people recognize that this case involves some extraordinary circumstances."

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said the federal district court in Florida, which is open 24 hours a day, had already been informed that a petition would be filed as soon as the president signs the measure — with the presumption a judge will order that the tube be replaced. "Time is not on Terri Schiavo's side," DeLay said. "The few remaining objecting House Democrats have so far cost Mrs. Schiavo two meals already today."

Even though the legislation would pave an avenue for federal jurisdiction in the legal case, there was no way to determine in advance how or when a judge would rule — or even which judge would be assigned the case by lottery.

Lawmakers who left Washington on Friday for the two-week Easter recess had to make abrupt changes in plans, backtracking for a dramatic and politically contentious vote.

In a special session Sunday afternoon, Democrats refused to allow the bill to be passed without a roll call vote. Under House rules, such a vote could not occur before 12:01 a.m. Monday when at least 218 of the 435-member House must appear to establish a quorum. Also, because it was an expedited vote, the measure needed votes from two-thirds of those present for passage.

The House has 232 Republicans, 202 Democrats and one independent.

The legislation would give Schiavo's parents the right to file suit in federal court over the withdrawal of food and medical treatment needed to sustain the life of their daughter.

It says the court, after determining the merits of the suit, "shall issue such declaratory and injunctive relief as may be necessary to protect the rights" of the woman. Injunctive relief in this case could mean the reinserting of feeding tubes. "It gives Terri Schiavo another chance," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said after the late-afternoon voice vote in a near-empty Senate chamber. "It guarantees a process to help Terri, but does not guarantee a particular outcome."

Frist also noted that the bill, responding to some Democratic objections, does not affect state assisted suicide laws or serve as a precedent for future legislation.

A Senate bill passed by the House is returned to the Senate enrollment clerk's office where it is printed on parchment and, when speed is important, driven immediately to the White House by Senate personnel. There, the White House clerk takes custody of the legislation and prepares it for the president to sign into law.

The White House made arrangements for Bush to sign the measure at any hour, although without fanfare.

Rep. Chris Smith, R-N.J., said members scattered across the globe were being summoned back to Washington by aides to House Majority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo.

The Democratic whip, Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said his office was informing members of the vote and not discouraging them from returning to the capital. But he said the party was not counting votes and was telling members to vote their conscience on the issue.

Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years. Her feeding tubes were removed Friday afternoon at the request of her husband, who says that his wife expressed to him before she fell ill that she did not want to be kept alive under such circumstances.

House and Senate committees at the end of the week issued subpoenas seeking to force the continuation of treatment, but that move was rejected by a Florida court.

Schiavo could linger for one or two weeks if the tube is not reinserted, as has happened twice before.

Republicans distanced themselves from a memo suggesting GOP lawmakers could use the case to appeal to Christian conservative voters and to force Democrats into a difficult vote. DeLay said he and other GOP leaders hadn't seen the memo and that he would fire any staffer who wrote such a document.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050321/ap_on_go_co/schiavo_congress

___

The bill is S.686.

On the Net:

Congress: http://thomas.loc.gov/

Jolie Rouge
03-20-2005, 07:57 PM
'Don't Kick It'
If Terri Schiavo is killed, Republicans will pay a political price.
Friday, March 18, 2005

It appears we've reached the pivotal moment in the Terri Schiavo case, and it also appears our politicians, our senators and congressmen, might benefit from some observations.

In America today all big stories have three dimensions: a legal angle, a public-relations angle and a political angle. In the Schiavo case some of our politicians seem not to be fully appreciating the second and third. This is odd.

Here's both a political and a public-relations reality: The Republican Party controls the Senate, the House and the White House. The Republicans are in charge. They have the power. If they can't save this woman's life, they will face a reckoning from a sizable portion of their own base. And they will of course deserve it.

This should concentrate their minds.

So should this: America is watching. As the deadline for removal of Mrs. Schiavo's feeding tube approaches, the story has broken through as never before in the media.

There is a passionate, highly motivated and sincere group of voters and activists who care deeply about whether Terri Schiavo is allowed to live. Their reasoning, ultimately, is this: Be on the side of life. They remind me of what Winston Churchill said once when he became home secretary in charge of England's prisons. He was seated at dinner with a jabbery lady who said that if she were ever given a life sentence she'd rather die than serve it. He reared back. No, he said, always choose life! "Death's the only thing you can't get out of!"

Just so. Life is full of surprise and lightning-like lurches. The person in a coma today wakes up tomorrow and says, "Is that you, mom?" Life is unknowable. Always give it a chance to shake your soul and upend reality.

The supporters of Terri Schiavo's right to continue living have fought for her heroically, through the courts and through the legislatures. They're still fighting. They really mean it. And they have memories.

On the other side of this debate, one would assume there is an equally well organized and passionate group of organizations deeply committed to removing Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. But that's not true. There's just about no one on the other side. Or rather there is one person, a disaffected husband who insists Terri once told him she didn't want to be kept alive by extraordinary measures.

He has fought the battle to kill her with a determination that at this point seems not single-minded or passionate but strange. His former wife's parents and family are eager to care for her and do care for her, every day. He doesn't have to do a thing. His wife is not kept alive by extraordinary measures--she breathes on her own, is not on a respirator. All she needs to continue existing--and to continue being alive so that life can produce whatever miracle it may produce--is a feeding tube.

It doesn't seem a lot.

So politically this is a struggle between many serious people who really mean it and one, just one, strange-o. And the few bearded and depressed-looking academics he's drawn to his side.

It is not at all in the political interests of senators and congressmen to earn the wrath of the pro-Schiavo group and the gratitude of the anti-Schiavo husband, by doing nothing.

So let me write a sentence I never thought I'd write: Politicians, please, think of yourselves! Move to help Terri Schiavo, and no one will be mad at you, and you'll keep a human being alive. Do nothing and you reap bitterness and help someone die.

This isn't hard, is it?

At the heart of the case at this point is a question: Is Terri Schiavo brain-dead? That is, is remedy, healing, physiologically impossible?

No. Oddly enough anyone who sees the film and tape of her can see that her brain tells her lungs to breathe, that she can open her eyes, that she seems to respond at times and to some degree to her family. She can laugh. (I heard it this morning on the news. It's a childlike chuckle.) In the language of computers she appears not to be a broken hard drive but a computer in deep hibernation. She looks like one of those coma cases that wind up in the news because the patient, for no clear reason, snaps to and returns to life and says, "Is it 1983? Is there still McDonald's? Can I have a burger?"

Again, life is mysterious. Medicine is full of happenings and events that leave brilliant doctors scratching their heads.

But in the end, it comes down to this: Why kill her? What is gained? What is good about it? Ronald Reagan used to say, in the early days of the abortion debate, when people would argue that the fetus may not really be a person, he'd say, "Well, if you come across a paper bag in the gutter and it seems something's in it and you don't know if it's alive, you don't kick it, do you?"

No, you don't.

So Congress: don't kick it. Let her live. Hard cases make bad law, but let her live. Precedents can begin to cascade, special pleas can become a flood, but let her live. Because she's human, and you're human.


A final note to the Republican leadership in the House and Senate: You have to pull out all the stops. You have to run over your chairmen if they're being obstructionist for this niggling reason and that. Run over their egos, run past their fatigue. You have to win on this. If you don't, you can't imagine how much you're going to lose. And from people who have faith in you.
Bill Frist and Tom DeLay and Jim Sensenbrenner and Denny Hastert and all the rest would be better off risking looking ridiculous and flying down to Florida, standing outside Terri Schiavo's room and physically restraining the poor harassed staff who may be told soon to remove her feeding tube, than standing by in Washington, helpless and tied in legislative knots, and doing nothing.

Issue whatever subpoena, call whatever witnesses, pass whatever emergency bill, but don't let this woman die.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110006442

janelle
03-20-2005, 10:40 PM
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050320/050320_schiavo_protest_hmed_11a.h2.jpg
David Hall, of Fort Worth, Texas, right, protests Sunday outside the Woodside Hospice in Pinellas Park, Fla., , where Terri Schiavo is a patient

House passes Schiavo legislation
Parents hope bill will force return of daughter's feeding tubeThe Associated Press
Updated: 12:54 a.m. ET March 21, 2005WASHINGTON - Congress approved emergency legislation early Monday to let Terri Schiavo's parents ask a federal judge to prolong their daughter's life, capping days of emotional debate over who should decide life and death.



President Bush waited at the White House to sign the measure permitting a federal review of the case, which could trigger the reinsertion of feeding tubes needed to keep the brain-damaged Florida woman alive.

The House passed the bill on a 203-58 vote after calling lawmakers back for an emergency Sunday session for debate that stretched past midnight.

The Senate approved the bill Sunday by voice vote.



Republican supporters said the "Palm Sunday Compromise" seeks to protect the constitutional rights of a disabled person and rejected suggestions that political motives lay behind the last-minute maneuver.

"When a person's intentions regarding whether to receive lifesaving treatment are unclear, the responsibility of a compassionate nation is to affirm that person's right to life," said House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis. "In our deeds and public actions, we must build a culture of life that welcomes and defends all human life."

Many Democrats who opposed the bill said the congressional vote placed lawmakers in the middle of issues best left to state courts and family members.

"Today, congressional leaders are trying to appoint Congress as a judge and jury," said Rep. Jim Davis, D-Fla. "If we do not draw the line in the sand today, there is no limit to what democratic principles this Congress will ignore or what liberties they may trample on next."

House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill. and others rejected the description of the brain-damaged woman as persisting in a "vegetative" state.

"She laughs, she cries and she smiles with those around her. She is aware of her surroundings and is responsive to them," he said. "This is a woman who deserves a chance at life and not a death sentence of starvation and dehydration."

Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., rejected the notion that elected lawmakers could accurately diagnose her condition.

"The caption tonight ought to be: We're not doctors, we just play them on C-SPAN," he said.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said the federal district court in Florida, which is open 24 hours a day, had already been informed that a petition would be filed as soon as the president signs the measure -- with the presumption a judge will order that the tube be replaced.

‘Two meals already’
"Time is not on Terri Schiavo's side," DeLay said. "The few remaining objecting House Democrats have so far cost Mrs. Schiavo two meals already today."



Even though the legislation paved an avenue for federal jurisdiction in the legal case, there was no way to determine in advance how or when a judge would rule -- or even which judge would be assigned the case by lottery.

Lawmakers who left Washington on Friday for the two-week Easter recess had to make abrupt changes in plans, backtracking for a dramatic and politically contentious vote.

In a special session Sunday afternoon, Democrats refused to allow the bill to be passed without a roll call vote.

That meant a vote could not occur before 12:01 a.m. Monday -- the start of a new legislative day. Still, the measure was handled on an expedited calendar that required a two-thirds majority to pass.

The House has 232 Republicans, 202 Democrats and one independent.

Right to sue
The legislation would give Schiavo's parents the right to file suit in federal court over the withdrawal of food and medical treatment needed to sustain the life of their daughter.



It says the court, after determining the merits of the suit, "shall issue such declaratory and injunctive relief as may be necessary to protect the rights" of the woman. Injunctive relief in this case could mean the reinserting of feeding tubes.

"It gives Terri Schiavo another chance," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said after the late-afternoon voice vote in a near-empty Senate chamber. "It guarantees a process to help Terri, but does not guarantee a particular outcome."

Frist also noted that the bill, responding to some Democratic objections, does not affect state assisted suicide laws or serve as a precedent for future legislation.

A Senate bill passed by the House is returned to the Senate enrollment clerk's office where it is printed on parchment and, when speed is important, driven immediately to the White House by Senate personnel. There, the White House clerk takes custody of the legislation and prepares it for the president to sign into law.

The White House made arrangements for Bush to sign the measure at any hour, although without fanfare.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050319/050319_schiavo_hmed_11a.standard.jpg
Winston Luzier / Reuters
Terri Schiavo's sister Suzanne Vitadamo, left, mother Mary Schindler, and Brother Hilery McGee of the Franciscan Brothers of Peace of St. Paul, Minn., address a crowd in Pinellas Park, Fla., on Saturday before visiting Terri, who had her feeding tube removed Friday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Democratic whip, Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said his office was telling members to vote their conscience on the issue and there was considerable Democratic support for the bill.

Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state for 15 years. Her feeding tubes were removed Friday afternoon at the request of her husband, who says that his wife expressed to him before she fell ill that she did not want to be kept alive under such circumstances.

House and Senate committees at the end of the week issued subpoenas seeking to force the continuation of treatment, but that move was rejected by a Florida court.

Schiavo could linger for one or two weeks if the tube is not reinserted, as has happened twice before.

Republicans distanced themselves from a memo suggesting GOP lawmakers could use the case to appeal to Christian conservative voters and to force Democrats into a difficult vote. DeLay said he and other GOP leaders hadn't seen the memo and that he would fire any staffer who wrote such a document.

© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

janelle
03-20-2005, 10:48 PM
Frist views video, disputes Schiavo diagnosis
Senator's comments raises eyebrows in medical, political circlesBy Charles Babington

Updated: 4:41 a.m. ET March 19, 2005WASHINGTON - Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state."



"I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office," he said in a lengthy speech in which he quoted medical texts and standards. "She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli."

His comments raised eyebrows in medical and political circles alike. It is not every day that a high-profile physician relies on family videotapes to challenge the diagnosis of doctors who examined a severely brain-damaged patient in person. Democrats were quick to note that Frist was getting rave reviews from conservative activists who will play a major role in the 2008 presidential primaries he is weighing.


In addition to the speeches, Frist backed a Senate strategy that threatens criminal sanctions against anyone who keeps Schiavo from attending a Washington hearing next week, to which she and her husband Michael Schiavo were invited early yesterday.

"I suspect that Senator Frist has his eye more on the Iowa caucus than the Hippocratic Oath," said Marshall Wittmann, a senior fellow at the Democratic Leadership Council and former GOP Senate staffer. "This is clearly the politics of the Republican base."

Republican pollster Anthony Fabrizio said Frist will doubtlessly win applause from staunch opponents of euthanasia and abortion, but he may receive a cooler reception from advocates of states' rights and limited federal government. "If you want to confirm your bona fides" with the former group, Fabrizio said, "this is a good way to do it. But while you're pleasing one segment of the party, you may be setting yourself up for trouble with conservatives who say 'we don't want more federal control over this stuff.' "

Medical specialists question Frist's challenges
Some medical professionals questioned the appropriateness of Frist challenging court-approved doctors who have treated Schiavo. Laurie Zoloth, director of bioethics for the Center for Genetic Medicine at Northwestern University, said she was surprised to hear Frist weigh in, given that he has not examined Schiavo. "It is extremely unusual -- and by a non-neurologist, I might add," Zoloth said in an interview.

Were Frist rendering an official medical judgment, she said, relying on an "amateur video" could raise liability issues. After 15 years, "there should be no confusion about the medical data, and that's what was so surprising to me about Dr. Frist disagreeing about her medical status," Zoloth said.

It is not the first time that Frist has created a stir in medical and political circles. In December, on ABC's "This Week With George Stephanopoulos," he repeatedly declined to say whether he thought HIV-AIDS could be transmitted through tears or sweat. A much-disputed federal education program championed by some conservative groups had suggested that such transmissions occur.

After numerous challenges by Stephanopoulos, Frist said that "it would be very hard" for someone to contract AIDS via tears or sweat. The Web site of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says: "Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV."

Aides: Frist's interests not political
Frist's aides say political considerations played no role in his actions regarding Schiavo. "His interest in this was sparked solely as a medical and human rights matter," said Eric M. Ueland, his chief of staff. "It's time for people to take off the 2008 rose-colored glasses and see Bill Frist for who he really is."

Conservative activist Gary Bauer, who made a 2000 presidential bid, praised Frist's role in the Schiavo case and said he would be surprised if conservatives of any stripe take offense. "I don't think there's any danger on the limited-role-of-federal-government argument," Bauer said, "because protecting life is an issue that transcends federalism."

Still Bauer said, Frist's intervention carries political risks because "the general public has been told she's in a vegetative state," and voters may view his actions as inappropriate meddling. "But I think he and others have been so courageous about this" that people will see them as "willing to go to the mat for one handicapped individual in Florida."

Democratic strategist Jim Jordan offered a much stronger assessment. "It's quackery," he said. "It'd be hilarious if it weren't so grotesque, how his presidential ambitions and pandering to the right wing is clashing with his life's work."

Staff writer Shailagh Murray contributed to this report.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

KarlaJorge
03-21-2005, 01:40 AM
her condition is irreversable. That means that it cannot be undone. She has been in this state for 15-16 years. (she could have gone to high school all over again for the amount of time this has been going on.) If she was going to get better she would have by now.
Actually let me turn this one around. What treatment do you suggeest they perform on her to give her life back?!? What wonder drug did the doctors that care for her forget? What button do we push? What wand do we wave?

Karla her Mother has no legal standing as long as Terri is married. This is why we have marriage rights, to speak for our spouces when they can't. It is believed that the husband/wife has the best interests of the spouce in mind and has first hand knowledge of what the patient would want.
His 'example' is not debatable in court, and those times he was in court Terri's parents could prove otherwise.


Are you a doctor that has examined her? You nor I can be sure of this. What we debate is that she has been restricted of so many things, especially therapy that could help her, that makes us think that Michael Schiavo's decisions are NOT in her best interest. And that is a fact that doesn't need to be diagnosed by a doctor, it can be seen so very clearly, by all the things he has denied her. :mad:

How can she get better if she has not been given that chance, What treatments??!! the treatments that have been denied to her, what drug??!! the doctors have not been allowed to care for her so who knows what she has been missing.

And sure the mother has no legal standing, would it be right if the husband was a criminal, serial killer, whatever type of the worst person in this world, would it be fine to just let him take those decisions. We are talking a specific case here, not just a daily basis regular family ordeal. With so many strange misterious things that have come out to the light about who really Michael Schiavo is, and how he treated her prior to her collapse, and some desisions he has taken with her in her state and condition like denying therapy, denying her family to see her, denying mediacl treatments that she needed for infections, etc. I mean yeah we don't know if all is true, but just being possible it's enough to NOT TRUST HIM.

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 06:29 AM
Since I am not a dr I can't name specific treatments... but what you are asking me has nothing to do with the actual topic of his spending the money on his needs instead of hers..if this were my husband.. I would have spent every dime to make sure I tried everything.

but if you want to move to a different one....ok..again in some of the previous posts by Jolie there have been several drs quoted as saying that in the past few years new treatments have become available that could help her.. but no one is allowed to try them on her... also.. there is a post about a women that was in the a "vegatative state" that came out of it after several yars (13 I think.. but to tired to read thru all the posts to double check) and again I guess the question comes back to... just because she won't be excatly like she was before does that mean her life is any less valuable? There are people in accidents everyday, that disable them, disfigure them, and change their life forever... since medicine can't "wave its magic wand, and push its magic button" to give them their old life back.. guess we should just lock them in a room and starve them to death... cause that is exactly what he is doing to her....
You're forgetting one thing.....
SHE DIDN"T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS!!!!

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 06:35 AM
Are you a doctor that has examined her? You nor I can be sure of this. What we debate is that she has been restricted of so many things, especially therapy that could help her, that makes us think that Michael Schiavo's decisions are NOT in her best interest. And that is a fact that doesn't need to be diagnosed by a doctor, it can be seen so very clearly, by all the things he has denied her. :mad:

How can she get better if she has not been given that chance, What treatments??!! the treatments that have been denied to her, what drug??!! the doctors have not been allowed to care for her so who knows what she has been missing.

And sure the mother has no legal standing, would it be right if the husband was a criminal, serial killer, whatever type of the worst person in this world, would it be fine to just let him take those decisions. We are talking a specific case here, not just a daily basis regular family ordeal. With so many strange misterious things that have come out to the light about who really Michael Schiavo is, and how he treated her prior to her collapse, and some desisions he has taken with her in her state and condition like denying therapy, denying her family to see her, denying mediacl treatments that she needed for infections, etc. I mean yeah we don't know if all is true, but just being possible it's enough to NOT TRUST HIM.
How can Michaels actions not be in her best interest if this is what she wnated? The courts have found no reason to take away spousal rights. The state courts agree with Michael, all appeals have been shot down. What more do you want? What can anyone possibley say that could justify taking away Terri's right to die or Michael's spousal rights?

dangerousfem
03-21-2005, 07:13 AM
You're forgetting one thing.....
SHE DIDN"T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS!!!!


Says who?? The one person who has wanted her to die this whole time? The only person in her life to hear her say it? The one person who for seven years FORGOT that she had said it?

sorry not proof to me.. and seems not enough prove to alot of others.

tigger4
03-21-2005, 07:29 AM
You have to love our government. We are at war that is not going as well as they had hoped, we have a record deficit that just keeps getting worse, and our Congress and Senate are sticking their noses into a private citizens life. Whatever happened to the Republicans saying we don't need BIG government. Sounds awfully Big to me.

excuseme
03-21-2005, 08:20 AM
Seems like she'd be dead if she was in Texas. No outrage at this Republican passed law. Google Sun Hudson to witness the hypocrisy.

_____________________________

Baby born with fatal defect dies after removal from life support
By LEIGH HOPPER
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

The baby wore a cute blue outfit with a teddy bear covering his bottom. The 17-pound, 6-month-old boy wiggled with eyes open and smacked his lips, according to his mother.

ADVERTISEMENT

Then at 2 p.m. today, a medical staffer at Texas Children's Hospital gently removed the breathing tube that had kept Sun Hudson alive since his Sept. 25 birth. Cradled by his mother, he took a few breaths, and died.

"I talked to him, I told him that I loved him. Inside of me, my son is still alive," Wanda Hudson told reporters afterward. "This hospital was considered a miracle hospital. When it came to my son, they gave up in six months .... They made a terrible mistake."

Sun's death marks the first time a hospital has been allowed by a U.S. judge to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts. A similar case involving a 68-year-old man in a chronic vegetative state at another Houston hospital is before a court now.

"This isn't murder. It's mercy and it's appropriate to be merciful in that way. It's not killing, it's stopping pointless treatment," said William Winslade, a bioethicist and lawyer who is a professor at the Institute for the Medical Humanities at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston. "It's sad this (Sun Hudson case) dragged on for so long. It's always sad when an infant dies. We all feel it's unfair, that a child doesn't have a chance to develop and thrive."

The hospital's description of Sun — that he was motionless and sedated for comfort — has differed sharply from the mother's. Since February, the hospital has blocked the media from accepting Hudson's invitation to see the baby in the neonatal intensive care unit, citing patient privacy concerns.

"I wanted y'all to see my son for yourself," Hudson told reporters. "So you could see he was actually moving around. He was conscious."

On Feb. 16, Harris County Probate Court Judge William C. McCulloch made the landmark decision to lift restrictions preventing Texas Children's from discontinuing care. However, an emergency appeal by Hudson's attorney, Mario Caballero, and a procedural error on McCulloch's part prevented the hospital from acting for four more weeks.

Texas law allows hospitals can discontinue life sustaining care, even if patient family members disagree. A doctor's recommendation must be approved by a hospital's ethics committee, and the family must be given 10 days from written notice of the decision to try and locate another facility for the patient.

Texas Children's said it contacted 40 facilities with newborn intensive care units, but none would accept Sun. Without legal delays, Sun's care would have ended Nov. 28.

Sun was born with a fatal form of dwarfism characterized by short arms, short legs and lungs too tiny to sustain his body, doctors said. Nearly all babies born with the incurable condition, often diagnosed in utero, die shortly after birth, genetic counselors say.

Sun was delivered full-term at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital, but Hudson, 33, said she had no prenatal care during which his condition might have been discovered. He was put on a ventilator while doctors figured out what was wrong with him, and Hudson refused when doctors recommending withdrawing treatment.

"From the time Sun was born ... he was on life support because his chest cavity and lungs could not grow and develop the capacity to support his body. He was slowly suffocating to death," Texas Children's said in a statement today.

Texas Children's contended that continuing care for Sun was medically inappropriate, prolonged suffering and violated physician ethics. Hudson argued her son just needed more time to grow and be weaned from the ventilator.

Another case involving a patient on life support — a 68-year man in a chronic vegetative state whose family wants to stop St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital from turning off his ventilator — was supposed to be heard today by the Houston-based 1st Court of Appeals.

But in a procedural switch, the case was transferred today to the 14th Court of Appeals, which promptly issued a temporary injunction ordering St. Luke's not to remove the man's life support, much as the 1st Court did Saturday. No hearing date has been set.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3084934

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 08:22 AM
Says who?? The one person who has wanted her to die this whole time? The only person in her life to hear her say it? The one person who for seven years FORGOT that she had said it?

See I knew you'd get it... :D

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 08:23 AM
You have to love our government. We are at war that is not going as well as they had hoped, we have a record deficit that just keeps getting worse, and our Congress and Senate are sticking their noses into a private citizens life. Whatever happened to the Republicans saying we don't need BIG government. Sounds awfully Big to me.
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial/tmate050320.gif

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 08:54 AM
You know, I was going to comment about this again, but have decided I refuse to join what is rapidly becoming nothing more than another screaming match/political "fight" on this forum. It never ceases to amaze me what people will fight about here lately. :(
You know what? You’re absolutely right. We all have strong feelings on the government involvement, the life/death issue, spousal rights, and ethics. It really hits a nerve with a lot of people who feel it is murder, or to those who see our rights being broken down one by one.
I’m sorry that I yelled earlier, I just get really frustrated sometimes. It is a sad situation and some of us see more of the black and white than others.

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 10:57 AM
I found some blogs from MSNBC.....
Terri Schiavo case: Your e-mails

I am thoroughly disgusted about the Shiavo case on multiple levels. First, as a lawyer, I am dismayed by the contempt for state courts shown by the commentary, implicit or explicit, that has come out both from politicians and ordinary citizens. It is not healthy for U.S. congressmen, many of whom have no courtroom experience and are not lawyers, to comment upon the qualifications of individual judges to render opinions that are of such obvious local character. Second, it is disconcerting as a taxpayer to see Air Force One flying at who knows what cost to Washington so that our president can get a photo op. Third, I cannot believe that Bill Frist who is a heart surgeon has weighed in against the neurological specialists who have seen the patient up close after his having watched a one-hour videotape. — Hudson Henley, Dallas, TX

The actions by both the Congress and the President regarding the Terri Schiavo case was an outrageous abuse of power. What is even more disturbing is the lack of factual, investigated and corroborated information presented on every news outlet. I listened carefully to extensive interviews of Michael Schiavo and Terri Schiavo's family and the unprecedented Congressional hearing last night and believe that Terri Schiavo's wishes have been disregarded and dishonored. Her husband is her legal guardian, and the Court has spoken. My Mother died in a Hospice, so I really do know what I am talking about. As to the execution of a Living Will, please inform your listeners that it is not enough. I have a Codicil that states that should I be taken to a hospital whose staff will not honor my wishes on religious grounds, I am to be moved to one which will. In addition, I have since learned that a Do Not Resuscitate Order is required as well. Now, I am very concerned that I will need an additional Codicil to protect me from politican intervention. Where does this stop? Last night, I left the Republican Party. — Charon Husted, Falls Church, VA

Do those wanting to keep Schiavo alive want to spend billions of tax dollars to keep all POOR people in a vegetative state alive?? Or just those with insurance? Or just those with their eyes open and a wide-open-mouth smile locked on their face much of the time? — Tom Paine

I am listening to everything going on this weekend with this sad case. Decisions like the one being made are done on an everyday basis and I have never heard of the congress and president stepping in to make a NEW LAW. This is beyond getting into an american's personal life and it really scares me. I have never thought about what or whom would decide my medical fate in the event that I couldn't, but after all of this I have made sure that my wishes are very well known. What the government and her parents have done to this poor woman is a disgrace. This is exploitiveness at the upsmost and they should not be allowed to get away with it. — Carol Ann Fastiggi

Terri's parents should have the last word on weather she lives or dies. And in the future parents should always be the ones (if they are available)to make that end of life decision for the children they gave life to, and the decision should be unanimous! and if not, the spouse should weigh in. When I recognize the history in this country of murder by spouses, and the statistics of its increase, I know that parents are the ones to trust, they have no monetary interest in life insurance or judgments in a case. — Zephy, Zipp City, OH

After more than 25 yrs as a Democrat, I now leave the party in disgust. Their inaction in the Schiavo case was the last straw---they've become completely useless. I've waited for an investigation into this administration, but to no avail. I've given up on my party, I've given up on my country. And I am finally able to reach this revelation because Terri Schiavo's parents cannot give up their daughter's fate to her husband, the FL courts, or God. Tom Delay is the only one who gains anything here--he gets a temporary smokescreen. The nation owes Michael Schiavo an apology for allowing our legislators, the media, evangelicals to not only make an already horrific situation worse, but to viciously slander him. — Jeannine, Richmond

In response to your question Monica, " Where does that leave the parents? Do the have no rights?" In my opinion, no, they gave up their rights when they gave up their daughter in marriage. They had their chance to object to the union of their daughter to this man, but did not do so. I'm sorry, but they need to let the law stand and allow Michael to decide alone. — Philip Y., Columbia, SC

dangerousfem
03-21-2005, 11:19 AM
See I knew you'd get it... :D


LOL... :D :) :p

I agree.. we all have very strong feelings on this... and honestly I think this thread has stayed pretty civil..lol.. I just hope these familys can find some peace soon.... no matter what is decided.... as for those on here who have differnt opinions than me.... ( you know who your are huh....lol. ;) ) I have no hard feelings... I enjoy a good debate... and I think everyone has stated their opinions without getting nasty and name calling.

janelle
03-21-2005, 11:20 AM
No matter what anyone says this is a very important case for deciding future ways to treat handicap people and those who are given large settlements in the court for malpractice suits. She may not be in a vegative state, if she is, right now if she had gotten the therapy she needed.

I would hope the monies would be used for treatment of the patient and future care. Doesn't look like it was used that way here. There should be a law about that. I wonder how many other people have used the monies on themselves and not the patient. This affects all of us and drives our insurance up and doctors out of business. Some people would not take things to court if they knew the total amount had to be used for rehibilation of the patient and care of the person for the rest of their lives. Sad but true

The husband put her on medicade? That is preposterous. Look how much money they awarded her and where is it now?

YNKYH8R
03-21-2005, 11:46 AM
Schiavo fate back in court after Bush signs law
GOP creates opening for federal judge; hearing set for 3 p.m. ET

NBC News and news services
Updated: 2:34 p.m. ET March 21, 2005


PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - The fate of Terri Schiavo once again was in the hands of a judge Monday, following an extraordinary political fight over the brain-damaged woman that consumed both chambers of Congress and prompted the president to rush back to the White House from his Texas ranch.

Taking the Senate’s lead, the House early Monday passed a bill to let the woman’s parents ask a federal judge to prolong Schiavo’s life by reinserting her feeding tube. President Bush signed the measure less than an hour later, at 1:11 a.m. ET. A White House source said he was woken from his sleep for the signing.

The White House said the law was narrowly tailored and not intended as a precedent for Congress to step into battles over the fate of seriously disabled or terminally ill patients.

But in a written statement, Bush promised to “stand on the side of those defending life for all Americans, including those with disabilities.”


Speaking in Arizona later on Monday, Bush said Congress had given the parents of Terri Schiavo "another opportunity to save their daughter's life." In extraordinary circumstances such as these, he said, it is "wise to always err on the side of life."

Bush's brother Florida Gov. Jeb Bush praised Congress for its "extraordinary action" in the Schiavo matter and rejected criticism that the legislation represented an unwarranted federal intrusion in a state case.

"They're not overruling any decision in asking federal to review the decision. I think that's more than appropriate," he said, adding that efforts would continue to find a compromise on state legislation to protect Schiavo.

The governor said he was in frequent contact during the weekend with Republican congressional leaders.

Until now, federal courts have turned the case back to state courts. The law gives the U.S. District Court in Tampa jurisdiction on a case that has been taken up by Republican leaders and galvanized activists on both sides of the emotional end-of-life issue.

An attorney for her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, went to the federal district court in Tampa at 3 a.m. ET, filing a request for an emergency injunction to keep their daughter fed.

It was not known when the judge, James Whittemore, would make a ruling but his office announced a hearing for 3 p.m. ET.

The parents' attorney, David Gibbs, said the judge had lots of paperwork to read through. Asked if he had any indication when the judge would rule, Gibbs said: “I have no way to know, just that it’s in the hands of the court.”

KarlaJorge
03-21-2005, 05:14 PM
Says who?? The one person who has wanted her to die this whole time? The only person in her life to hear her say it? The one person who for seven years FORGOT that she had said it?

sorry not proof to me.. and seems not enough prove to alot of others.


VERY WELL SAID, that is ENOUGH!

cavemtmomma
03-21-2005, 05:23 PM
Michael Schiavo gave contradictory stories about whether disconnecting his estranged wife from feeding tubes was his wish or her wish in a Larry King interview on CNN.

Asked why he has persisted in his decade-long effort to end his wife's life despite the wishes of Terri Schiavo's parents and others who love her, Schiavo said: "Because this is what Terri wanted. This is her wish." I won't give it up," he said. "Terri is my life. I'm going to carry out her wishes to the very end. This is what she wanted. It's not about the Schindlers. It's not about me, not about Congress. It's about Terri."

Schiavo has been living with another woman for the last 10 years and is raising two children with her.

Under mysterious and still unexplained circumstances, Terri Schiavo lost consciousness and blood flow to her brain for a period of time some 15 years ago. Her parents suspect foul play.

While she remains conscious, she is unable to speak. The family says she has been denied treatments that could help her regain the ability to eat and speak.

Shortly after saying his determination to end Terri's life was about her wishes, Schiavo changed his story in the King interview. Asked if he understood her family's feelings, he said: "Yes, I do. But this is not about them, it's about Terri. And I've also said that in court. We didn't know what Terri wanted, but this is what we want. ..."

The interview aired Friday.

KarlaJorge
03-21-2005, 05:33 PM
How can Michaels actions not be in her best interest if this is what she wnated? The courts have found no reason to take away spousal rights. The state courts agree with Michael, all appeals have been shot down. What more do you want? What can anyone possibley say that could justify taking away Terri's right to die or Michael's spousal rights?

Wanted??!! I think I have said enough of WHY NOT. IT IS NOT WRITTEN ANYWHERE, just his word of mouth. He has denied everything, how can that be her best interest??!!

Jolie Rouge
03-21-2005, 09:03 PM
Federal judge weighs Schiavo case
Bush signs law letting parents seek restoration of feeding tube
Monday, March 21, 2005


TAMPA, Florida (CNN) -- A federal judge Monday heard arguments on whether a feeding tube should be reinserted for Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged woman at the center of a tug of war that triggered extraordinary congressional action over the weekend.

Judge James Whittemore of the Middle District of Florida did not indicate when he might rule on the matter. "I will render a decision, but I will not tell you when," Whittemore said at the conclusion of the hearing.

David Gibbs -- an attorney for Schiavo's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler -- filed documents overnight seeking a temporary restraining order and Schiavo's move from a hospice to a hospital for the tube's reinsertion.

Schiavo's feeding tube was removed Friday at the orders of a state court judge after repeated rulings that she is in a "persistent vegetative state" and that her husband and legal guardian, Michael Schiavo, has the right to make the decision.

Fifty-six percent of Americans agree with the decision to remove the feeding tube -- including 54 percent of Republicans and 55 percent of people who attend church at least monthly, according to a poll released Monday.

The CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll was based on telephone interviews of 909 American adults from Friday to Sunday. The margins of error for the questions ranged from plus-or-minus 3 percentage points to plus-or-minus 7 percentage points.

The two sides presented their cases in court Monday for 45 minutes apiece.

Gibbs repeatedly called for urgent action, saying Schiavo is dehydrating and starving "as we speak."

He said her right to due process has consistently been denied by lower courts -- a statement that drew intense questioning from the judge.

Pressed by Whittemore to cite any case law to support his argument, Gibbs admitted he could not think of any.

George Felos, an attorney for her husband, pointed out that Michael Schiavo is her legal guardian and argued that her parents don't have legal standing to make their case. Felos also said Terri Schiavo told her best friend, brother-in-law and uncle that she would never want to be kept alive in this type of scenario.

Outside court, Felos told reporters that Terri Schiavo long ago made clear her wishes: "She said, 'I don't want to be kept alive artificially -- 'no tubes for me. I want to go when my time comes. Take the tubes and everything out.'"

Gibbs said he believes the judge will make a quick decision. "We tried to stress the urgency of moving quickly," he said. "I'm sure the court is well aware that Terri does not have many days without food or water before she will die."

Attorneys for Michael Schiavo told CNN Monday before the hearing they would argue the new legislation represents the intrusion of Congress and the president into both a private family matter and a state court system.

Hours earlier, President Bush signed into law a bill authorizing the federal courts to review the case after emergency weekend sessions in the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate. Bush's signature followed a 203-58 vote in the House early Monday approving a bill to transfer the case's jurisdiction to federal court. The Senate passed the legislation by voice vote Sunday.

At a town-meeting style appearance Monday in Tucson, Arizona, Bush said: "Democrats and Republicans in Congress came together last night to give Terri Schiavo's parents another opportunity to save their daughter's life."

"This is a complex case with serious issues," Bush said. "But in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wise to always err on the side of life."

Justice Department lawyers also filed documents in federal court Monday supporting legal efforts to keep Schiavo alive, a senior department official said.

In the House, 47 Democrats joined 156 Republicans in voting for the bill following more than three hours of passionate debate.

The extraordinary session had supporters, primarily Republicans, arguing that the issue was Schiavo's "right to life," while a Democrat warned that passing the measure would "undermine over 200 years of jurisprudence."

Bob Schindler said he visited his daughter Monday in the Pinellas Park, Florida, hospice where she is a patient. "I asked her if she was ready to take a little ride, and I told her that we were going to take her for a little trip and take her outside and get her some breakfast, and that got a big smile out of her face, so help me God," Schindler said. "So, she seemed to be very pleased, and we're pleased, and we're very thankful for both the House and the Senate for passing this bill and literally saving Terri's life."

Michael Schiavo assailed the congressional action. "I think it's an invasion to the American people when you make a private decision in a family matter," he said on CNN. "This is a sad day for Terri, and it's a sad day for every American in this country, and people should be outraged."

Terri Schiavo collapsed in her home in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly because of a possible potassium imbalance, halting the flow of oxygen to her brain and causing extensive damage.

The bitter legal debate has resulted in more than a dozen state court decisions, and it appeared to reach a climax with Friday's ruling. The U.S. Supreme Court later rejected the House's appeal to intervene.

Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the president's brother, issued a statement shortly after the House vote: "I thank the Congress for its swift action allowing Terri's parents to seek a federal review of this case. Certainly, an incapacitated person deserves at least the same protection afforded criminals sentenced to death."

But Michael Schiavo objected. "This is about Terri Schiavo, not the government, not President Bush and Gov. Bush," he said. "They should be ashamed of themselves."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/21/schiavo/index.html

cavemtmomma
03-21-2005, 09:39 PM
DISABLED WOMAN WOULD CRY 'HELP ME' CAREGIVERS CLAIM
By Jeff Johnson CNSNews.com Congressional Bureau Chief
September 03, 2003
EXCERPT:
Carla Sauer Iyer was a Licensed Practical Nurse (LPN) at the same convalescent center in the mid 1990s, and also cared for Terri. She described Mr. Schiavo as being "focused on Terri's death.

"Michael [Schiavo] would say, 'When is she going to die? Has she died yet?' and 'When is that b***** going to die?'" Iyer charged. "Other statements which I recall him making include, 'Can't anything be done to accelerate her death, won't she ever die?' When she wouldn't die, Michael [Schiavo] would be furious."

Conversely, Iyer said that when she would have to call Schiavo to inform him of a downturn in Terri's condition, Schiavo would be elated.

"Michael would be visibly excited, thrilled even, hoping that she would die," Iyer recalled. "He would blurt out, 'I'm going to be rich,' and would talk about all the things he would buy when Terri died, which included a new car, a new boat and going to Europe, among other things."

Iyer also described incidents of Terri Schiavo talking, moving voluntarily and responding to external stimuli, descriptions that Iyer said were removed from Mrs. Schiavo's medical records. Both Law and Iyer reported Terri verbally communicating, also contradicting Michael Schiavo's claim that his wife was in a Persistent Vegetative State.

"During the time I cared for Terri, she formed words. I have heard her say 'mommy' from time to time, and 'momma,'" Law recalled. "She also said 'help me' a number of times."

Iyer described Terri as "alert and oriented," and said Michael Schiavo "systematically distorted" Terri's medical condition.

"Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as 'mommy' and 'help me,'" Iyer recalled. "'Help me' was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times."

How can anyone consider Mike Shiavo Terri's husband when he has lived with another woman for ten years. Marriage is a covenant before G-d and Mike has broken it long ago.

YankeeMary
03-22-2005, 04:20 AM
I could kick my hiney, last night I watched an interview with Teri's "guardian of law", and for the life of me I can't remember his name. Anyways, he was neither on her DH side or the parents side, he was ordered by the court to decide what was best for Teri. He stated that her "moaning" was not talking and would do it through out the day, never on command, consitantly. In his opinion, Teri was/is still in a veg. state. He stated that her parents were very loving and caring over Teri and were great people. He stated that Micheal was a loving, devoted husband that took many many measures to "bring" Teri back, including taking her to California for internal electrodes, which failed. He stated that for the first 6-7 years the parents and Micheal got along great and worked together getting Teri all the medical help possible, when the doctors (numerous) stated that Teri would remain in this condition forever. Micheal finally accepted this, her parents didn't, that is when the acusations began. This guardian spent 30 days with her, some times 4 hours at a time. He tried, begged and pleaded Teri to respond to him, do anyhing to prove she was "there", in 30 days, she never did. Out of all honesty this was one of the best interviews, if not the best (IMO) I have seen over this case, he was fair and equal with all involved. IMO I feel that he was appointed by the court to be guardian at law, and he walked in there being just that and walked away being Teri's friend.

nightrider127
03-22-2005, 04:42 AM
"Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as 'mommy' and 'help me,'" Iyer recalled. "'Help me' was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times."


Talking don't mean a thing to me. I heard my sweet Mommy talk as she lay dying. She was in a coma. The woman that I called Mommy and loved and still love, was gone, even though she was still breathing on her own and had a heart beat.

I am sad for this young ladys family, I really am. But sometimes, nothing else can be done and you have to accept that fact.

I will pray for her and all her family and friends.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 05:37 AM
Wanted??!! I think I have said enough of WHY NOT. IT IS NOT WRITTEN ANYWHERE, just his word of mouth. He has denied everything, how can that be her best interest??!!
Okay, let us turn this one around. How benficial is it to let her live. She cannot recognize her surroundings, she has no self actualization. The only benefit to keeping her alive is for her parents sake.
And, like it has been said before it doesn't matter if it was written anywhere or not. He has legal rights as her gaurdian. This is what marriage is for.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 05:39 AM
Judge denies request to reinsert feeding tube
Terri Schiavo's parents to appeal to 11th Circuit Court

The Associated Press
Updated: 7:38 a.m. ET March 22, 2005


TAMPA, Fla. - A federal judge on Tuesday refused to order the reinsertion of Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube, denying an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman’s parents.

U.S. District Judge James Whittemore said the 41-year-old woman’s parents had not established a “substantial likelihood of success” at trial on the merits of their arguments.

Whittemore wrote that Terri Schiavo’s “life and liberty interests” had been protected by Florida courts. Despite “these difficult and time strained circumstances,” he wrote, “this court is constrained to apply the law to the issues before it.”

Rex Sparklin, an attorney with the law firm representing Terri Schiavo’s parents, said lawyers were immediately appealing to the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta to “save Terri’s life.” That court was already considering an appeal on whether Terri Schiavo’s right to due process had been violated.

Reaction from the handful of protesters outside the woman’s hospice early Tuesday came quickly. “It’s terrible. They’re going to talk and talk and she’s going to die,” said Miriam Zlotolow, 59, of Venice, Calif.


Whittemore’s decision comes after feverish action by President Bush and Congress on legislation allowing the brain-damaged woman’s contentious case to be reviewed by federal courts.

The tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation early Monday aimed at keeping her alive.

Terri Schiavo did not have a living will. Her husband, Michael Schiavo, has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because he said she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery. Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, contend she responds to them and her condition could improve.

'A mortal sin'
David Gibbs III, the parents’ attorney, argued at a Monday hearing in front of Whittemore that forcing Terri Schiavo to starve would be “a mortal sin” under her Roman Catholic beliefs and urged quick action: “Terri may die as I speak.”

But George Felos, an attorney for Michael Schiavo, argued that keeping the woman alive also violated her rights and noted that the case has been aired thoroughly in state courts.


“Yes, life is sacred,” Felos said, contending that restarting artificial feedings would be against Schiavo’s wishes. “So is liberty, particularly in this country.”

Michael Schiavo said he was outraged that lawmakers and the president intervened in a private matter. “When Terri’s wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She will be at peace. She will be with the Lord,” he said on CNN’s “Larry King Live” late Monday.

Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly because of a possible potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding tube to keep her alive.

Court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery, while her parents insist she could recover with treatment. Doctors have said Schiavo could survive one to two weeks without the feeding tube.

According to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 909 adults taken over the weekend, nearly six in 10 people said they think the feeding tube should be removed and felt they would want to remove it for a child or spouse in the same condition.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 05:42 AM
http://www.msnbc.com/comics/editorial/tt050322.gif

YankeeMary
03-22-2005, 06:00 AM
Ok I have to try to figure this out...first off, the constitution states, seperation of church and State. Everyone says religion has no place in the government. Teri's parents state that her religion plays a role in allowing her to "live" with the feeding tubes. Even though this is all a fact could someone please explain to me how in the world did the President, governer, etc...get involved. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! This is a double standard and is unnacceptable. If the government is going to be involved in this, then I say combine God and State, all the time not when it is just convient for power or votes. I have read many of the posts in this thread and other threads regarding this situation and its so funny to me that the posters that mention God and Teri's wishes due to her religion, are the same posters that do not want God involved in anything. It can't be that way, its wrong. It also amazes me the ones that complain that a momma spends her food stamps on things "they" don'tapprove of, supports keep Teri "alive" while tax payers foot the bill. Her brain is gone...she doesn't feel pain, therefore she couldn't feel dehyration nor starvation. Removing the tube is the only way for her to "die", if they were to give her a "lethal injection" of something, everyone would have a cow, so its the worse of 2 evils. Neither one being ideal. It is a terrible tragidy but at some point and time those involved must come to some type of acceptance and allow her to simply just go in peace. I am sure her parents and family as well as her DH are all going through pure hell today and yesterday and the day before as well as the past 16 years and tomorrow will be hell for them also up until her last breath and many many years after that. The tubes have been removed now its time to pray for those involved.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 06:40 AM
I don't believe that the President and Congress did this because of religon. While the parents say it is a violation of their daughters religous rights the Cngressional intervention was solely on the basis of having the Federal court hear the case (it wouldn't before). And now the ruling stands. The hard part is going to be ging before the 11th District appeals court.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 07:07 AM
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/NEWS/050321/Schiavo_tube2.gif
Schiavo death should be peaceful, experts say
Removal of feeding tube would end her life in about three weeks

The Associated Press
Updated: 8:30 a.m. ET March 22, 2005


NEW YORK - If Terri Schiavo dies from the removal of her feeding tube, her passing should be peaceful, experts say.

After all, she is in a persistent vegetative state without conscious awareness, they noted.

But studies show that even patients who can speak and who have chosen to stop eating and drinking generally don’t complain of thirst or hunger, said Dr. Russell Portenoy, chair of palliative care at the Beth Israel Medical Center in New York.

“It’s as if the body has a protective mechanism at the end of life, such that loss of appetite and loss of thirst precede the dying process,” he said.

Death can take a widely variable amount of time but generally arrives within three weeks, Portenoy said.


Schiavo’s feeding tube was removed on Friday. It has been removed twice before and then re-inserted because of legal pressure, but Portenoy and Yale expert Dr. Sherwin Nuland said those interruptions in feeding should not have caused harm.

Generally, death from prolonged lack of food and water is due to dehydration, said Nuland, author of the book, “How We Die.”

Dehydration leads to kidney failure. When the kidneys shut down, levels of certain substances in the blood rise. The person slips into a coma. At some point the biochemical changes in the blood become severe enough to impair the electrical system that controls the functioning of the heart, and the heart stops beating.

“It’s usually quite a peaceful death,” Portenoy said. “The person generally looks as if he or she is drifting off to sleep, and then dies.”.

excuseme
03-22-2005, 08:06 AM
Sun Hudson is living proof that both G W Bush and Tom DeLay don't care anything about Terri. If she was a Texan she'd have been dead years ago by the very same bill that Bush signed into law and DeLay pushed for.

schsa
03-22-2005, 09:00 AM
I think that the federal judge did what he could. Congress and the Senate don't want to get involved. Bush can sign whatever he wants but regardless of the decision it wil be wrong in someone's eyes.

So they can blame the judge for this decision rather than the politicians.

dangerousfem
03-22-2005, 10:44 AM
Ok I have to try to figure this out...first off, the constitution states, seperation of church and State.

Actually it does not say that.... but that is a whole different debate...lol
;)

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 10:49 AM
Parents of Schiavo to appeal to higher court
Clock ticks for brain-damaged woman after removal of feeding tube

The Associated Press
Updated: 1:18 p.m. ET March 22, 2005


TAMPA, Fla. - The parents of Terri Schiavo quickly filed a notice of appeal on Tuesday, moving the life-and-death case of their severely brain-damaged daughter to a higher court, after a federal judge refused to order the reinsertion of Schiavo’s feeding tube.

Michael Schiavo, who has long sought to end the life-supporting feedings, arguing that his wife would not want to be kept alive in a permanent vegetative state, won the right to remove the tube. The removal, which took place on Friday, spurred a flurry of legislative and legal maneuvering locally and in Washington, where Congress passed and President Bush signed legislation allowing the case to be reviewed by the federal courts.

Tuesday's ruling denied an emergency request from the brain-damaged woman’s parents to reinsert the tube. U.S. District Judge James Whittemore said the 41-year-old woman’s parents had not established a “substantial likelihood of success” at trial on the merits of their arguments.

The notice of appeal was filed electronically hours later with the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta by David Gibbs III, an attorney for Terri Schiavo’s parents. The notice tells the court that the full appeal will follow. That court was already considering an appeal on whether Terri Schiavo’s right to due process had been violated.


White House puts hope in appeals process
Whittemore wrote that Schiavo’s “life and liberty interests” had been protected by Florida courts. Despite “these difficult and time strained circumstances,” he wrote, “this court is constrained to apply the law to the issues before it.”

No further hearings were scheduled before Whittemore.

The Bush administration “would have preferred a different ruling,” White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters in Albuquerque, N.M., where the president was visiting a senior center.

“We hope that they would be able to have relief through the appeals process,” McClellan said.

While Rex Sparklin, another attorney for the parents, said the appeal was needed to “save Terri’s life,” Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, praised the ruling.

“What this judge did is protect the freedom of people to make their own end-of-life decisions without the intrusion of politicians,” Simon said.


'Absolutely barbaric'
Bobby Schindler, Terri Schiavo’s brother, said his family was crushed. “To have to see my parents go through this is absolutely barbaric,” he told ABC’s “Good Morning America” on Tuesday. “I’d love for these judges to sit in a room and see this happening as well.”

Attempts to reach the woman’s father, Bob Schindler, were unsuccessful early Tuesday. George Felos, the attorney for husband Michael Schiavo, hung up twice when reached by reporters from The Associated Press.

But Scott Schiavo, Michael Schiavo’s brother, called the judge’s decision “a good thing,” and said he did not believe Congress should have intervened.


“There’s not a law that’s made for this,” Scott Schiavo said in a telephone interview. “This is something that goes on 100 times a day in our country, that people, their wish to die with dignity is not a federal issue.”

Schiavo's feeding tube was disconnected Friday on the orders of a state judge, prompting an extraordinary weekend effort by congressional Republicans to push through unprecedented emergency legislation Monday aimed at keeping her alive.

Louise Cleary, a spokeswoman for Woodside Hospice, said she could not discuss Terri Schiavo’s condition Tuesday. “To honor the privacy of all of our patients, we couldn’t comment,” Cleary said.

Gov. Jeb Bush was described by a spokeswoman as “extremely disappointed and saddened” by the federal judge’s decision not to order the tube reconnected. “Gov. Bush will continue to do what he legally can within his powers to protect Terri Schiavo, a vulnerable person,” said spokeswoman Alia Faraj.

Interpreting Schiavo's wishes
Terri Schiavo did not have a living will. Her husband has fought in courts for years to have the tube removed because, he said, she would not want to be kept alive artificially and she has no hope for recovery. Her parents contend she responds to them and that her condition could improve.

Court-appointed doctors say she is in a persistent vegetative state with no hope of recovery. Doctors have said she could survive one to two weeks without the feeding tube.

Gibbs argued at a Monday hearing in front of Whittemore that letting Terri Schiavo starve would be “a mortal sin” under her Roman Catholic beliefs and urged quick action: “Terri may die as I speak.”

But Felos argued that keeping the woman alive also violated her rights and noted that the case has been aired thoroughly in state courts.

“Yes, life is sacred,” Felos said. “So is liberty, particularly in this country.”

Michael Schiavo said he was outraged that lawmakers and the president intervened in a private matter. “When Terri’s wishes are carried out, it will be her wish. She will be at peace. She will be with the Lord,” he said on CNN’s “Larry King Live” late Monday.

Terri Schiavo suffered brain damage in 1990 when her heart stopped briefly. Her collapse was later linked to a potassium imbalance believed to have been brought on by an eating disorder. A successful malpractice lawsuit argued that doctors had failed to diagnose the eating disorder. She can breathe on her own, but has relied on the feeding tube to keep her alive.

According to a CNN-USA Today-Gallup poll of 909 adults taken over the weekend, nearly six in 10 people said they think the feeding tube should be removed and felt they would want to remove it for a child or spouse in the same condition.

nightrider127
03-22-2005, 11:27 AM
Sun Hudson is living proof that both G W Bush and Tom DeLay don't care anything about Terri. If she was a Texan she'd have been dead years ago by the very same bill that Bush signed into law and DeLay pushed for.

Excuseme, could you post more about this?

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 12:12 PM
Her brain is gone...she doesn't feel pain, therefore she couldn't feel dehyration nor starvation.

This has been the heart of the dispute. Not all reports or Doctors agree in this matter.



Removing the tube is the only way for her to "die", if they were to give her a "lethal injection" of something, everyone would have a cow...

I think it would be more humane to simply give her a "lethal injection" and let you go peacefuly to sleep than to starve her to death over a period of 15 or more days.





"Terri spoke on a regular basis while in my presence, saying such things as 'mommy' and 'help me,'" Iyer recalled. "'Help me' was, in fact, one of her most frequent utterances. I heard her say it hundreds of times."

Talking don't mean a thing to me. I heard my sweet Mommy talk as she lay dying. She was in a coma. The woman that I called Mommy and loved and still love, was gone, even though she was still breathing on her own and had a heart beat.


This makes no sense - eigther she IS in a "persistant vegetative state" or she IS NOT -- speech is a sign that she is not in PVS and that what M is having done is tantemount to murder - legally pursued or not.

excuseme
03-22-2005, 12:13 PM
if you google "sun hudson" you find a wealth of information. here is some of it:


Bush-Signed '99 Law Allows Feeding Tube Removal Over Parent's Wishes
At 2 p.m. today [03.15.05], a medical staffer at Texas Children's Hospital gently removed the breathing tube that had kept Sun Hudson alive since his Sept. 25 birth. Cradled by his mother, he took a few breaths, and died....Sun's death marks the first time a hospital has been allowed by a U.S. judge to discontinue an infant's life-sustaining care against a parent's wishes, according to bioethical experts...Texas law [signed by Bush] allows hospitals can discontinue life sustaining care, even if patient family members disagree. A doctor's recommendation must be approved by a hospital's ethics committee, and the family must be given 10 days from written notice of the decision to try and locate another facility for the patient. --Houston Chronicle



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Texas Hospital Doctor Ties Bush Feeding Tube Law To Ability To Pay
"A patient's inability to pay for medical care combined with a prognosis that renders further care futile are two reasons a hospital might suggest cutting off life support, the chief medical officer at St. Luke's Episcopal Hospital said Monday. Dr. David Pate's comments came as the family of Spiro Nikolouzos fights to keep St. Luke's from turning off the ventilator and artificial feedings keeping the 68-year-old grandfather alive. --Houston Chronicle

___________________

http://www.premack.com/columns/1999/990813.htm

Dear Mr. Premack: I came across your column from June 4, 1999 concerning the new bill on health care legalities. Was it passed by the legislature and signed into law? Do you have any pertinent information about the how the bill affects us, and what documents we should have if it becomes law? Thanks! – D. J. P.

The bill you refer to was SB 1260, and it did pass both houses of the Texas legislature. Governor Bush was required to veto or sign it before June 20, 1999 – and he returned from a campaign trip just in time to sign the bill into law. Its effective date is September 1, 1999, so we have about two more weeks under the old laws before the new statute takes over.

The new statute is called the Texas "Advance Directives Act." It could have a profound effect on Seniors and anyone else who finds themselves caught in the cogs of the health care establishment. The law updates three important but outdated statutes: the Natural Death law, the Health Care Power of Attorney law, and the Do-Not-Resuscitate law.

First, we’ll look at how the new statute changes the Natural Death law (and next Friday we’ll look at the other topics). Our Natural Death law authorizes you to sign a "directive to physicians," expressing your instruction to stay off artificial life support when it will do nothing but delay the moment of death. The new statute calls this a "Directive to Physicians, Family or Surrogates," recognizing that your doctor is not the only person who needs to receive your instructions.

The new statute liberalizes the situations under which you can avoid artificial life support. Under it, life support can be withheld or withdrawn if you have a terminal condition that is expected to cause your death within six months. The old law required death to be "imminent" or due shortly. This allows you, as a patient, to avoid life support at an earlier date and gives you more control over the final months of life.

The new statute also authorizes you to avoid artificial life support if you have an "irreversible condition" from which you are expected to die. There is no time limit imposed by the new statute. Theoretically, this could be used to remove life support from a comatose patient, even if life support could have maintained the vital signs for years.

There was a potential legal conflict if you signed both a Directive and a Health Care Power of Attorney under the old laws. In both documents, you could choose surrogate decision-makers in case you became too ill to care for yourself. If your decision-makers were two different people, they could argue about your health care. The Advance Directives Act consolidates the laws, eliminating this conflict by requiring your decision-makers to follow the instructions you give in your Directive. A new disclosure provision also warns you to select the same person as decision-maker in both documents.

You are not legally required to throw away your old Directive. It is still valid after September 1st. On the other hand, you old Directive will continue to follow the old law – you will not receive the benefits of the new statute unless you sign a new, updated Directive. You can obtain the forms through our Legal Forms Store.

excuseme
03-22-2005, 12:22 PM
Law Bush signed as Texas governor prompts cries of hypocrisy

Mon Mar 21, 7:22 PM ET

By William Douglas, Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - The federal law that President Bush (news - web sites) signed early Monday in an effort to prolong Terri Schiavo's life appears to contradict a right-to-die law that he signed as Texas governor, prompting cries of hypocrisy from congressional Democrats and some bioethicists.

In 1999, then-Gov. Bush signed the Advance Directives Act, which lets a patient's surrogate make life-ending decisions on his or her behalf. The measure also allows Texas hospitals to disconnect patients from life-sustaining systems if a physician, in consultation with a hospital bioethics committee, concludes that the patient's condition is hopeless.

Bioethicists familiar with the Texas law said Monday that if the Schiavo case had occurred in Texas, her husband would be the legal decision-maker and, because he and her doctors agreed that she had no hope of recovery, her feeding tube would be disconnected.

"The Texas law signed in 1999 allowed next of kin to decide what the patient wanted, if competent," said John Robertson, a University of Texas bioethicist.

While Congress and the White House were considering legislation recently in the Schiavo case, Bush's Texas law faced its first high-profile test. With the permission of a judge, a Houston hospital disconnected a critically ill infant from his breathing tube last week against his mother's wishes after doctors determined that continuing life support would be futile.

"The mother down in Texas must be reading the Schiavo case and scratching her head," said Dr. Howard Brody, the director of Michigan State University's Center for Ethics and Humanities in the Life Sciences. "This does appear to be a contradiction."

Brody said that, in taking up the Schiavo case, Bush and Congress had shattered a body of bioethics law and practice.

"This is crazy. It's political grandstanding," he said.

Bush's apparent shift on right-to-die decisions wasn't lost on Democrats. During heated debate on the Schiavo case, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, D-Fla., accused Bush of hypocrisy.

"It appears that President Bush felt, as governor, that there was a point which, when doctors felt there was no further hope for the patient, that it is appropriate for an end-of-life decision to be made, even over the objection of family members," Wasserman Schultz said. "There is an obvious conflict here between the president's feelings on this matter now as compared to when he was governor of Texas."

White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan termed Wasserman Schultz's remarks "uninformed accusations" and denied that there was any conflict in Bush's positions on the two laws.

"The legislation he signed (early Monday) is consistent with his views," McClellan said. "The (1999) legislation he signed into law actually provided new protections for patients ... prior to the passage of the '99 legislation that he signed, there were no protections."

Wasserman Schultz stuck by her remarks when told of McClellan's comments.

"It's a fact in black and white," she said. "It's a direct conflict on the position he has in the Schiavo case."

Tom Mayo, a Southern Methodist University Law School associate professor who helped draft the Texas law, said he saw no inconsistency in Bush's stands.

"It's not really a conflict, because the (Texas) law addresses different types of disputes, meaning the dispute between decision-maker and physician," he said. "The Schiavo case is a disagreement among family members."

Bush himself framed the Schiavo decision this way Monday.

"This is a complex case with serious issues, but in extraordinary circumstances like this, it is wise to always err on the side of life," the president said during a Social Security (news - web sites) event in Tucson, Ariz. He didn't mention the 1999 Texas law.

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 12:32 PM
Excuseme, could you post more about this?

several items posted in this thread on this case .....



Mom wins order to keep infant on life support
Appeals court keeps infant on life support
Thursday, February 17, 2005

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A mother fighting to keep a hospital from removing her infant son from the ventilator that has kept him alive since birth has won another temporary restraining order.

The 1st Court of Appeals reinstated the order keeping 4-month-old Sun Hudson on life support Wednesday, just hours after a probate court judge lifted the order. A hearing was set for Tuesday.

The dispute centers on the legal standard over hospital care in Texas. Under state law, a hospital must continue care if there is a reasonable probability that another hospital will admit the patient.

Texas Children's Hospital officials have said no treatment can save Sun, and they want to remove him from life support. Hospital lawyers said state officials have contacted almost 40 facilities and none have been willing to care for the infant. But the boy's mother, Wanda Hudson, believes her son will recover. Her attorney argued there is a reasonable chance another hospital would take the child.

Sun suffers from thanatophoric dysplasia, a genetic condition characterized by extremely short limbs, a narrow chest, small ribs and underdeveloped lungs. Infants usually are stillborn or die shortly after birth from respiratory failure. There have been rare documented cases of survivors, however. "He is slowly suffocating to death because his lungs lack the capability to support his body," the hospital said.

Hudson hasn't seen her son in more than a month, but says she believes she communicates with him telepathically. "Sun is going to live forever," she said. "As long as the Sun is in the sky he will live. I don't believe in death."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/17/l...t.ap/index.html


(How very sad ... )



Post #104 in this very thread ....
Baby at center of life support case dies
Tuesday, March 15, 2005

HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A critically ill 5-month-old was taken off life support and died Tuesday, a day after a judge cleared the way for doctors to halt care they believed to be futile. The infant's mother had fought to keep him alive.

Sun Hudson had been diagnosed with a fatal genetic disorder called thanatophoric dysplasia, a condition characterized by a tiny chest and lungs too small to support life. He had been on a ventilator since birth.

Wanda Hudson unsuccessfully fought to continue her son's medical care. She believed he needed time to grow and could eventually be weaned off the ventilator. "I wanted life for my son," Hudson said Tuesday. "The hospital gave up on him too soon."

Texas law allows hospitals to end life support in cases such as this but requires that families be given 10 days to find another facility to care for the patient. No hospital was found to take the baby.

The ethics committee at Texas Children's Hospital reviewed Sun's case before recommending that life support be stopped. Hospital officials also recommended the case be taken to court and offered to pay Hudson's attorney fees. "Texas Children's Hospital is deeply saddened to report that Sun Hudson has died," the hospital said in a statement issued Tuesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/15/li...y.ap/index.html


Several important points differ from the Schiavo case ....

Sun Hudson had been diagnosed with a fatal genetic disorder called thanatophoric dysplasia, a condition characterized by a tiny chest and lungs too small to support life. He had been on a ventilator since birth.

Texas law allows hospitals to end life support in cases such as this but requires that families be given 10 days to find another facility to care for the patient. No hospital was found to take the baby.

Texas Children's Hospital officials have said no treatment can save Sun, and they want to remove him from life support. Hospital lawyers said state officials have contacted almost 40 facilities and none have been willing to care for the infant.

nightrider127
03-22-2005, 01:09 PM
Thanks Jolie. I hadn't seen the posts. I just didn't know what that post was talking about.

YNKYH8R
03-22-2005, 01:24 PM
That's so side. Maybe they shouls "err on the side of life." :rolleyes:

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 01:24 PM
This thread has well over 200 posts now .. you mean you have not studied each and every one ?? ;) ;) ;)

There are so many issues involved and everyone is trying to do "their best" in these cases. Marie died in NICU without us ever having to make this type of choice.

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 01:27 PM
That's so side. Maybe they shouls "err on the side of life." :rolleyes:


Need another cup of coffee ??

Kind of an ironic comment considering your sig .... :cool:

YankeeMary
03-22-2005, 03:16 PM
Actually it does not say that.... but that is a whole different debate...lol
;)
You are right it doesn't say that, it is just assumed (for lack of better word)... Our nation was founded as a secular government, based on the authority of "We, the People," not a god, king, or dictator. My bad I should have clarified my statement better.

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 03:32 PM
Ok I have to try to figure this out...first off, the constitution states, seperation of church and State....

No.

Says "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of;

This is to protect the citizens from a State Religion such as The Church of England where the King ( or Queen ) is also the Head of the Church (which is why it was such a big deal about Charles getting a divorce or marrying a divorcee` ). It is to protect the People from a State Sponsored Rule of Religion such as the Spainish Inquistion where the Church persecuted the Heathens and the assesst of the accused were divided by the Church and State coffers.

So, if you want to make the arguement, they are trampling on Terri's Civil Rights by refusing to recognise her beliefs as expressed by her in the presence of her family and by the instructions of the Pope as Terri is a practicing Catholic.

YankeeMary
03-22-2005, 04:58 PM
No.

Says "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise of;

This is to protect the citizens from a State Religion such as The Church of England where the King ( or Queen ) is also the Head of the Church (which is why it was such a big deal about Charles getting a divorce or marrying a divorcee` ). It is to protect the People from a State Sponsored Rule of Religion such as the Spainish Inquistion where the Church persecuted the Heathens and the assesst of the accused were divided by the Church and State coffers.

So, if you want to make the arguement, they are trampling on Terri's Civil Rights by refusing to recognise her beliefs as expressed by her in the presence of her family and by the instructions of the Pope as Terri is a practicing Catholic.
I made the correction in my statement.
If the President is willing to keep her alive due to her religious beliefs then it WRONG.

So, if you want to make the arguement, they are trampling on Terri's Civil Rights by refusing to recognise her beliefs as expressed by her in the presence of her family and by the instructions of the Pope as Terri is a practicing Catholic.
Her beliefs or her parents? She stated to her husband SHE DIDN"T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS. It has never been proven by her parents or anyone else that her husband is lying. She never told her parents she wanted to live like this, so we have to take him at his word, its that simple. The Bible says that the body is the temple of God, she misused her body, but now her religion plays a part in it all? IMO that is just crazy. Just because its what the Catholics preach doesn't mean she was a devout catholic. I went to highschool with a catholic girl that had an abortion. So not all catholics live exactly by the catholic teachings.

JCshopper
03-22-2005, 06:01 PM
Why can't they just let this Nobel Prize nominated doctor work with her for a while. He has worked with her, for only ten hours, and says she is NOT in a persistent vegetative state. Furthermore he has offered to work with her and fully believes she will improve to the point where she can communicate at the very least but possibly much, much more. Why would a nobel prize nominated doctor say something he did not truly believe? I don't know all of the facts of the case. There is so much spin in both directions how could anyone possibly know what the truth is? But, to ease the pain for the parents, wouldn't you at least allow some sort of therapy and rehabilitation to see what could happen? If in the end they found that she was in "PVS", none of this would have mattered to her according to the experts... they say she can't feel anything and doesn't know anything anyway. I would not want to live being able to do nothing at all... but if it eased the pain for my family to try different therapies and such... so be it. I do believe in a persons right to die if they are suffering in pain and dying anyway, but this woman is neither dying or suffering from pain according to the "experts". Just my opinion...

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Her beliefs or her parents? She stated to her husband SHE DIDN"T WANT TO LIVE LIKE THIS. It has never been proven by her parents or anyone else that her husband is lying. She never told her parents she wanted to live like this, so we have to take him at his word, its that simple. The Bible says that the body is the temple of God, she misused her body, but now her religion plays a part in it all? IMO that is just crazy. Just because its what the Catholics preach doesn't mean she was a devout catholic. I went to highschool with a catholic girl that had an abortion. So not all catholics live exactly by the catholic teachings.

HER BELIEFS.

In a bible study group where they discussed the case of Kathleen Quinn ( a young woman rendered brain dead in a car accident whose parents went to court to remove her feeding tube ) TERRI stated that she would not want them to do that because where there is life there is hope; that if God was not prepared to take her then her life was not over. Several wittnesses have testified to this. The ONE AND ONLY person that she supposedly expressed this wish to was M. - who "forgot" that she had expressed this wish until AFTER he had won a medical malpracrice suit, found a new girlfriend, and had already refused her treatment for potentially life-threathening infections.

M. has also refused to allow them to give her communion or adminisiter the sacrements of Annointing of the Sick and one might presume Last Rites. How twisted is that ??

The Catholic Church (as most Churches) is not a museum for Saints but a hospital for Sinners ( present company included. )

onfire4god57
03-22-2005, 08:57 PM
I have to ask you jcshopper, just how long should this new therapy last? If they try something for say 6 months and it doesn't work, then the parents are going to say that it wasn't long enough that she just needs a few more months to try. And if you give her two years of therapy and it doesn't work then the parents will still say that it just wasn't long enough let's giver her another year. When would it ever end?

Everyone keeps seeing the videos on news clips and thinks this is what she is like, but everyone keeps forgetting that these clips are two and three years old. And then they only show just a few seconds of what appears that she is smiling at her mother, but if you got to see it all should would have a smile on her face over anything, she is not making herself smile, it is an involuntary movement.

Everyone wants Michael to let the media video tape her and plaster her video all over the channels, but doesn't he have a right to allow her to have some privacy. I know personally if I were in that state I sure wouldn't want the whole world viewing me on TV. Back in 2000 when my husband laid in a hospital bed in ICU attached to a ventalor, in a coma and dying we tried to take a picture of him so that I could have it, we were stopped by the nurses because it violated his privacy rights. And I was his wife and durable power of attorney over his health care!

This whole thing has become a media and politcal circus. We don't want Big Brother interferring in our lives any other time so why start now?

This woman is in Hospice Care, not in a nursing home. Hospice care is generally a very short term, from a few days to a couple of months at end times when there is NO HOPE for survival. That means several years ago when she was placed there, there was NO HOPE for survival. Nothing was ever going to change!

I may be a very devout Christian, but I do not believe that she should be made to stay alive in this condition. I do believe what Michael has said. Not every couple makes private issues like what is in their living wills public knowledge. And back 15 years ago, having a living will with you everytime you went to the hospital was unheard of. But that didn't mean that they hadn't discussed in Private with each other what their wishes were. Maybe she didn't want her parents to know her wishes because she was going against what her religion believed in.

And by the way my husband survived back in 2000, and I have been his full time, 24 hour a day 7 day a week caregiver ever since. I feel very sorry for what Michael has gone through all these years. I can relate to what he's been through. And even though I have never turned to anyone else in the way he has, I can understand why he did.

It's time for all this to end and to let this woman die with some dignity in private!

I will pray that Terry would just drift off to sleep and go be with God before our government has a chance to interfere anymore.

Jolie Rouge
03-22-2005, 09:34 PM
Reprinted from NewsMax.com
Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST

Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally

A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.

Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified: "At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.

"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."

Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."

Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."

--

Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"

When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.

"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that b**** gonna die?'"
__________________



So ... in 1991 Terri moved to Bradenton Mediplex Rehabilitation Center where her condition is assessed as improving; Terri's husband advised to move her to Gainesville Rehabilitation Center to receive advanced therapy to continue her recovery instead he moves Terri moved to Sable Palms Nursing Home. ( Nursing Homes are not know for their Rehab facilities. )

In November 1992 Terri is awarded $250,000 in malpractice settlement to pay for her medical care and then in a seperate filing she is awarded $1.4 million in a malpractice trial. Further Michael Schiavo awarded $600,000 in malpractice trial for his pain & suffering and for "loss of consortium"

In Febuary of 1993 Michael Schiavo denies recommended rehabilitation treatment and Schiavo and Terri's parents have falling out regarding lack of therapy for Terri. Schiavo withholds medical information from Terri's parents in part because Schiavo posts "Do Not Resuscitate" order in Terri's medical chart which leads to Schiavo threatening the Schindler family with lawsuit due to their protests.

In August 1993 Schiavo orders medical staff not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection (UT - can be quite painful ... appearently not an issue for M ) So Bob and Mary Schindler petition courts to remove Schiavo as Terri's guardian as it seems he doesn't have their daughter's best interests at heart. In the course of the case Schiavo admits in deposition that he knew withholding treatment of infection could result in Terri's death.

In Febuary 1994 Judge Penick dismisses guardianship suit. And in April Terri is returned to Palm Gardens Nursing Home.

In September of 1995 Schiavo orders Palm Gardens not to treat Terri for potentially fatal infection. Unfortunately for him, Terri recovers.

In May of 1997 Judge Shames approves Schiavo action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration claiming that Terri is suffering PVS despite testimony from the RN's to the contrary. Coinciendaly in July Schiavo's engagement to Jodi Centonze announced; they already have one child together. But it takes until August for Attorney Felos's letter notifying Terri's parents of action to remove Terri's nutrition and hydration.



Does this sound like the actions of someone who "loves" his wife or does he merely view her as a possession ?

JCshopper
03-22-2005, 10:00 PM
And I have to ask you onfire4god57, have you seen Terri, do you know her "husband", her doctors, the nurses who have cared for her? Did you know her when she had the, supposed, eating disorder that has been discounted by many doctors. I don't have the answers but, I don't think you do either. And if she can't feel anything as you and some are stating, why not give it a shot for her families sake... The ones who really love her? Michael Schiavo can move on with his life... oh that's right, he already has. As far as his concern that he cannot divorce her, because it is against his religion....isn't it also against his religion to have children out of wedlock, especially since he is already married. I don't think that he has done anything wrong in moving on with his life but he should cut out the dumb excuses. I just think in this instance there are far too many questions left unanswered to justify removing a feeding tube.

janelle
03-22-2005, 10:12 PM
http://www.cfra.info/213/petition.asp?PID=8379697&NID=1


Center for Reclaiming America
EMERGENCY PETITION
Save Terri Schiavo!

UPDATE:
Seventy-two hours after Terri’s feeding tube was removed (around 1:30 p.m. on March 18, 2005), Dr. Gary Cass made a second petition delivery – this time of nearly 200,000 petitions – to the Florida State Legislature, requesting that it move to save Terri’s life at this eleventh hour.
Terri Schiavo’s life is hanging in the balance. Courts have allowed her husband to remove her feeding tube, a situation which amounts to court-ordered death by starvation. Right now, the Center for Reclaiming America is rallying all Americans – particularly Floridians -- to contact Florida’s Senate, urging the passage of S.B. 804—the bill that could save Terri’s life.

107,000 PETITIONS DELIVERED TO TALLAHASSEE!:
The week this petition launched, the Center's Executive Director, Dr. Gary Cass, delivered more than 107,000 petitions to Florida Gov. Jeb Bush and other legislative leaders. More deliveries are planned. Please sign this EMERGENCY PETITION today! Then, alert your friends by forwarding the special “link” email message and help us rally tens of thousands of citizens.

ROSE RALLY FOR TERRI
On Sunday, March 13, 2005, hundreds gathered in Tallahassee at a “Rose Rally for Terri,” organized by the Center and more than a dozen national and Florida state groups.

FEDERAL LEGISLATION INTRODUCED:
On March 8, Rep. Dave Weldon (FL) and Sen. Mel Martinez (FL) introduced the “Incapacitated Persons Legal Protection Act” (H.R. 1151/S. 539). This bill, if passed, will protect the constitutional rights of Terri and other Americans who cannot speak for themselves.



The Petition States:


TO: Governor Jeb Bush, Florida Legislators, Federal Judges
CC: President George W. Bush
As a concerned citizen, I am signing this “Petition to Save Terri Schiavo” and I am urging you to take immediate action to stop the forced starvation of Terri Schiavo. It is vitally important to safeguard Terri’s right to life. Further, we cannot afford to set a legal precedent which puts the lives of other Americans at risk. I support legislative, judicial and executive efforts that will stop the forced starvation of Terri Schiavo.



Step1 - Sign the petition:
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POLICY ON SPAMMING

Periodically, the Center will send you e-mail updates with the latest information on this issue as well as updates on other vital issues. We seek to secure the Internet privacy of every person signing this petition. Therefore, your e-mail address will not be sold, traded, or shared with any other organization. YOU WILL NOT BE SPAMMED.

YOU MUST BE 18 YEARS OR OLDER TO SIGN THIS PETITION.

This petition is sponsored by the Center for Reclaiming America. Established by Dr. D. James Kennedy, the Center is an outreach of Coral Ridge Ministries to inform the American public and motivate Christians to defend and implement the biblical principles on which our country was founded. The Center provides non-partisan, nondenominational information, training, and support to all those interested in impacting the culture and renewing the vision set forth by our Founding Fathers.

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