Efarkingnough already.

[jaybird]

:mad:

Not saying a word. Nope, not me. Just squeeze whatever money you have a bit tighter, because the Treasury isn't going to 'manufacture' this money at the mint.

:mad:

Top News
Wednesday, May 5, 2004
Official: Bush to Seek $25B for Iraq War


WASHINGTON (AP) - The Bush administration will ask Congress for an additional $25 billion for U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, a House Republican aide said Wednesday, a change from the White House's earlier plans to not request such money until after the November elections.
White House budget chief Joshua Bolten planned to visit the Capitol on Wednesday to discuss the proposal with House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., and other top Republicans, said the aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The request comes amid an intensified Iraqi insurrection that has inflicted steady casualties on Americans and forced the Pentagon to plan on keeping more troops in the country next year than the administration had previously planned.

The $25 billion request is for the federal budget year that begins next Oct. 1. In recent weeks, administration officials have raised the possibility that they also will need extra money for the final weeks of this fiscal year as well, with many members of Congress saying they believe billions will be needed.

Last February, President Bush's budget omitted any funds for U.S. military and reconstruction activities in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bolten said at the time that the administration's 2005 request for Iraq could be up to $50 billion.
It seemed likely that the $25 billion proposal to be discussed on Wednesday would be only the first portion of funds that will be needed for next year.

[schsa]

And is this money coming out of our future Social Security or possibly Medicare? And when our children's children are still working off this debt, who is going to be suffering then?

Regardless of what you say, Clinton had our debt under control. Now it will never get paid off. And there are some who are saying that our pull at the International Monetary Fund is dropping because of this. Plus we can add the word INFLATION to everything.

I don't want to pay taxes so that we can blow up a third world nation. And if Canada pulls out as well as Australia, we are going to be pretty much on our own. So don't let your sons and daughters sign up for the military or they will be over there dying as well.

Sorry to be so blunt but this totally ticks me off. Either get over there and put and end to things or pull out and let them fight among themselves until there isn't anything left.

[silvermist]

And is this money coming out of our future Social Security or possibly Medicare? And when our children's children are still working off this debt, who is going to be suffering then?

Regardless of what you say, Clinton had our debt under control. Now it will never get paid off. And there are some who are saying that our pull at the International Monetary Fund is dropping because of this. Plus we can add the word INFLATION to everything.

I don't want to pay taxes so that we can blow up a third world nation. And if Canada pulls out as well as Australia, we are going to be pretty much on our own. So don't let your sons and daughters sign up for the military or they will be over there dying as well.

Sorry to be so blunt but this totally ticks me off. Either get over there and put and end to things or pull out and let them fight among themselves until there isn't anything left.

AGREED. This is getting ridiculous!

[freeby4me]

I think my eyes literally just bugged outta my head reading that 25 BILLION! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[menanamama]

Regardless of what you say, Clinton had our debt under control. Now it will never get paid off.
I don't want to pay taxes so that we can blow up a third world nation. And if Canada pulls out as well as Australia, we are going to be pretty much on our own. So don't let your sons and daughters sign up for the military or they will be over there dying as well.

first of all...what planet are you from????????????????????????clinton did not have it under controll....i was just as high (per capata) as it is now. the only diff. is they thought that all the capital gains taxes they would get from the dotcom bubble would help pay it down....too bad it busted...but neither had anything what so ever to do with clinton or bush.
secondly....we are pretty much alone now. and someone has to stand up for those who can not stand up for themselves. sadly being that we are the most powerfull nation at the moment means that it is usually us.
by the way...the casualty count that you seem to beleive is 100% is actually much lower (below 1%) and death happens in war. less have died in this war than in any previous war...or did everyone forget that.
those facts...YES I SAID FACTS have been stated...i do agree that it is about time we go home simply because they have to begin to take responsibility for themselves but do we do it before they are ready and end up with another saddam (who did support terrorism although no direct, concrete links to al queda have been found) or try to prepare them so they don't do that?

[zitra]

first of all...what planet are you from????????????????????????clinton did not have it under controll....i was just as high (per capata) as it is now. the only diff. is they thought that all the capital gains taxes they would get from the dotcom bubble would help pay it down....too bad it busted...but neither had anything what so ever to do with clinton or bush.
secondly....we are pretty much alone now. and someone has to stand up for those who can not stand up for themselves. sadly being that we are the most powerfull nation at the moment means that it is usually us.
by the way...the casualty count that you seem to beleive is 100% is actually much lower (below 1%) and death happens in war. less have died in this war than in any previous war...or did everyone forget that.
those facts...YES I SAID FACTS have been stated...i do agree that it is about time we go home simply because they have to begin to take responsibility for themselves but do we do it before they are ready and end up with another saddam (who did support terrorism although no direct, concrete links to al queda have been found) or try to prepare them so they don't do that?

Have to agree..The US Deficit hasn't been under "control" since WWI...and never will be again as long as the US keeps sending $ out of the country to help other nations, wiht their financial problems, help with food for other countries, etc. And as long as there is war (there is no escaping it) there will be a national deficit...

[justinenycole26]

We are still paying reparations from World War 2. Why go blow s**t up just so we can pay to rebuild it? I am not saying that we should not have been in World War 2, I'm saying they are the ones that screwed up so let them fix it themselves.

[joaimee]

I am a supporter of Bush and the war in Iraq (this coming from a West Virginian Democrat,lol!) I see it as a move to change the face the Middle East. I think that by introducing democracy into the Middle East,starting with Iraq, it may help to stabilize the region. I think that if these people have a choice, they will choose to live their lives in peace and be glad to make their own decisions and choose their own leaders. Poverty does not cause terrorism, terrorism causes poverty. This is why the terrorists are attacking and killing Muslims, to scare them and keep them cowered. They don't want them to succeed, because if they do, the terrorists will have no safe quarter.
I don't want to spend any more money than we have to in Iraq and I am tired of seeing good, decent, honorable men and women die. But I don't believe that we can back out, now, it would be the worst choice we could make. Back out now and the terrorists win, they will think that the USA is weak and our country could become as terror ridden as Israel.

[stresseater]

ITA w/ joaimee and appreciate the facts givin by zitra. To pull out before they are ready to take over responsibly would ensure that we will have to go back over ther at a later date, at a greater cost. :eek: :eek:

[DAVESBABYDOLL]

ITA w/ joaimee and appreciate the facts givin by zitra. To pull out before they are ready to take over responsibly would ensure that we will have to go back over ther at a later date, at a greater cost. :eek: :eek:

I agree.I also agree with justinenycole26..why in the hell level the damn place just so we (US tax payers) can pay to rebuild. Doesn't make alot of sense.How many soldiers must die to rebuild another country.

[twinkiesmom]

LOL. I can see this turning into a debate thead. IMO, the money could be better used in the US. That's all I got to say . . .

[AngelGrim]

Personally I am a bit aggravated as we have so many things going wrong in our own country that paying to rebuild another is sad. What about the water that is getting steadily worse here, or the homeless that are dying in the cold and the kids that aren't getting the education that they need cause they can't afford to keep the schools taken care of or the senior citizens that are dying because they can't afford their medication and if they do buy the medicine then they can't afford to eat. 25 BILLION. UGH. And people say that not as many people have died in this war as in other wars, BUT the war isn't over yet and besides has anyone checked to see how many were killed by this time in the other wars. I am just upset that so many say, yes go to war, and use many things to stand up for it, and I do love America and would defend it, but we went to war with Iraq due to weapons that have never appeared. Now we are dealing with prisoners being killed and abused over there. And then now with more war money needed we are going broke over it. I just think we need to put more effort in taking care of our Homeland. Sorry just venting, jmo, so please don't shred me.

[twinkiesmom]

ok, I was just told by dh that follows this crap regularly on CNN, etc, that Bush to begin w/sez this whole freaking thing was gonna come to 1.5B, w/the approved amts from congress already, according to CNN, in the end it'll come to 150B of US taxpayers' money. And that's without the 25B he's gonna ask for again. Um, 1.5B is a far cry from 175B if this 25B gets approved. Now, that's just the monetary side of it . . . . don't get me started about the lives we lost . . . .

[EricsnKy]

Simply put - Bush Sucks. He deceived America leading us into Iraq for WMD. I truly believe there was never no evidence that Saddam recently held WMD. It was all a plot to oust Saddam - He wanted to finish the job that his daddy didn't.

Some say all politicians lie - Most of their lies do not result in the deaths of MANY soldiers or cost us billions of dollars.

:mad: :confused:

[msmom79]

i totally agree i think bush sucks,and im really tired of our men and woman dying for a better middle east!? what about a better us of a ithink we should spend our money right here in our own land ,where it to me is needed a hell of a lot more then over seas,i do agree with helping other nations,but i think we should help our own first!!!! just my own little oppinions.{{{{{ hugs to all our men and woman over sea's}}}}}}}} ann

[Duo]

Australia will not give in. WE (oops) forgot i live here now :) Australia owes the US alot and are jsut as much a target as we are in the US.

If we were to just stop and pull out of Iraq. Why not just pull out from every country we are in. That is exactlty what the scumbags want. Have us running scared.

This will not stop till the Lord comes back. Just another part of the timeline is being set out. Im not trying to fight anyone, but i do agree the momey should be spent here, but until we can win the fight then it wll go on.

Peter :)

[momfromTN]

Australia will not give in. WE (oops) forgot i live here now :) Australia owes the US alot and are jsut as much a target as we are in the US.

If we were to just stop and pull out of Iraq. Why not just pull out from every country we are in. That is exactlty what the scumbags want. Have us running scared.

This will not stop till the Lord comes back. Just another part of the timeline is being set out. Im not trying to fight anyone, but i do agree the momey should be spent here, but until we can win the fight then it wll go on.

Peter :)


I totaly agree. And the constant "bush sucks" and "he lied" chants are like beating a dead horse. No proof. ;)

The WMD were discussed at length during the CLINTON admin., so the thing about Bush lying must not be such a lie after all. Some people seem to think Kerry is the Savior who will rescue us from the evil Bush. LOL! That man doesn't know whether to wind his butt or scratch his watch! :D

Oh yea people, Bush is to blame for every evil the world has ever known, down to my hangnail. Darn it! Someone cut me off in traffic today~must be Bush's fault. :rolleyes: (I am being sarcastic~don't get your panties in a bunch)

I will see ya'll at the polls.

[turbob]

I really think enough is enough. Even my mom, who supported Bush to the point we would have screaming battles over this whole mess, is now taking second look at him. I would like for someone to explain to me how we can find this money, when kids go to bed HUNGRY every night? The way some senior citizens have to live is a disgrace. I will not let my son be drafted to go and fight for control of oil fields, anmd if Bush gets re elected, I am seriously considering leaving the county and going to live in England. BTW- to evey one who is fighting over there, or have family and friends there, THANK YOU. I don't want to sound like I am not grateful to them for the sacrifice they are making.

[momfromTN]

oops double post sorry

[momfromTN]

I really think enough is enough. Even my mom, who supported Bush to the point we would have screaming battles over this whole mess, is now taking second look at him. I would like for someone to explain to me how we can find this money, when kids go to bed HUNGRY every night? The way some senior citizens have to live is a disgrace. I will not let my son be drafted to go and fight for control of oil fields, anmd if Bush gets re elected, I am seriously considering leaving the county and going to live in England. BTW- to evey one who is fighting over there, or have family and friends there, THANK YOU. I don't want to sound like I am not grateful to them for the sacrifice they are making.


Come on, it is all not black and white. President Bush is not personally responsible for everything that is wrong here. Some elderly, like my grandma, didn't plan for their retirements. Whose fault is that? People should help their aging relatives and don't. It should not be the government's place to totally fund a person's retirement or take care of their ENTIRE living. People should put away for their own retirement. I know I won't see a dime of the S Security I am paying. In regards to hunger. Yes there is a problem. But it is all not the government's fault there, either. Some kids have parents who spend money on cigarettes or drugs, instead of meat and bread and milk. In nearly every area, there are soup kitchens, and food pantries and help available. Now, the food stamp program needs revamped, I will give you that, but if some people would get off their butt and go to work and support themselves, then others who REALLY NEED the relief could get it. If you need it, fine, but it was not meant as a way of life, it was meant as a temporary solution.

I would be proud if my son were to serve his country. It is not a war about oil fields. We have oil here if needed.

If you feel the need to leave, I wish you well. But know that England is not without it's problems.

[jcw]

Not surprising that he wants more money. How many billions has he spent while in office?

[momfromTN]

Thank God we Americans are in a country where we have the freedom to express our opinions, no matter what. :D

[Angelseyes28]

Come on, it is all not black and white. It should not be the government's place to totally fund a person's retirement or take care of their ENTIRE living.
It seems the only thing black and white is the fact that the government is more than willing to "fund" whatever is needed for people as long as they aren't from this country. Lets send trillions of dollars overseas to help everyone else but yet for something as basic as our country's education system, Bush comes up with a slogan called "No child left behind" and considers the problems with our educational system fixed. I'm sorry but I have to agree with the majority here, Bush is an idiot. That is a label he has definately earned seeing as how he is willing to help other countries while neglecting his own.

[debbyfaye]

*waves both hands high in the air* This is me agreeing with the fact that our President isn't on the ball.

I think that the very real possibility of buying groceries or paying a bill is going to become a realization for far too many people if something isn't done quickly in this country.

As far as people funding their own retirement. My family is lucky but realistically the majority of people are struggling to put a roof over their heads and food in their stomach. "Luxuries" like health insurance and a retirement plan are just a pipe dream that they aren't able to reach. Heck, most people can't even afford to go to a movie or have a nice dinner out on the town muchless sock money away in a 401K.

[AngelGrim]

I have a for instance thing here, we are sending money over seas to help other countries on medical and building and food, but my husband was diagnosed with lung cancer and please don't give me heck on this, but he was incarcerated at the time, and they would not even give him any type of treatment but YET told him that without treatment he would be dead in one to two years. DO you know what that did to me and my family let alone him, and not only that they told him this after one xray. They did no other further testing. Now it has been 3 years. HMMMMMMMMM he is still here and now it is believed that it is scarring due to the work he was doing before the incarceration. But they at the time couldn't afford to find out for sure because our people are not important enough to spend our own money on. Sorry just my own opinion. I just think instead of spending all of our peoples tax money everywhere else that we should spend it here. Why don't they take a vote from the people and see what they think, as it is our money in the first place.

[momfromTN]

It seems the only thing black and white is the fact that the government is more than willing to "fund" whatever is needed for people as long as they aren't from this country. Lets send trillions of dollars overseas to help everyone else but yet for something as basic as our country's education system, Bush comes up with a slogan called "No child left behind" and considers the problems with our educational system fixed. I'm sorry but I have to agree with the majority here, Bush is an idiot. That is a label he has definately earned seeing as how he is willing to help other countries while neglecting his own.

Ok, well we will just have to agree to disagree. That is what makes this interesting, differing opinion. I think it has been quite peaceful and I appreciate that. :D

[zitra]

I have a for instance thing here, we are sending money over seas to help other countries on medical and building and food, but my husband was diagnosed with lung cancer and please don't give me heck on this, but he was incarcerated at the time, and they would not even give him any type of treatment but YET told him that without treatment he would be dead in one to two years. DO you know what that did to me and my family let alone him, and not only that they told him this after one xray. They did no other further testing. Now it has been 3 years. HMMMMMMMMM he is still here and now it is believed that it is scarring due to the work he was doing before the incarceration. But they at the time couldn't afford to find out for sure because our people are not important enough to spend our own money on. Sorry just my own opinion. I just think instead of spending all of our peoples tax money everywhere else that we should spend it here. Why don't they take a vote from the people and see what they think, as it is our money in the first place.

I agree, that more money should be spent in the US for homeless, people who are starving, etc. This might be an unpopular opinion (and is not a dig on you or your DH) but I don't think that people who are incarcerated should recieve ANY free healthcare..it's like rewarding them for getting arrested. I think They should house them (in their cell), feed them, and clothe them (prison issue clothing)..all of the extras (cable, exercise equipment, etc.) should not be available to them, and if they need medical care they should have to pay for it, out of their own pocket..I am not saying they should refuse medical care, but they should at least bill the person for it, being arrested should be a deterrent..I have heard of many people who get themselves arrested on purpose, becuase they KNOW that their housing/food/most medical care would be free....If they didn't spend sooo much money on makign prisoners comfortable there would be at least some more money that could go to schools/feeding the homeless etc.

[msmom79]

And Are We Forgetting That Most Of Our Elderly Have Fought In The Wars Already??? For This Great Country,im Sorry But Yes I Think Our Government Should Help Our Elderly,they Have Already Did Thier Part For Us,thats Why They Call Alot Of Them Vetrens!!i Dont Think As A Nation ,our Children Should Go To Bed Hungry,or With Out A Roof Over Their Heads!! And What About Our Elderly Who Dont Have Enough In Their Checks To Pay For The Meds They Need,or After Paying Their Bills They Cant Buy Food!! Come On People Wake Up!! We Need A President Who Cares About His Own Country First,then We Can Worryabout The Rest.{{{{{hugs To All Our Boys And Girls Over Seas}}}} Your Great!! Jmo

[momfromTN]

And Are We Forgetting That Most Of Our Elderly Have Fought In The Wars Already??? For This Great Country,im Sorry But Yes I Think Our Government Should Help Our Elderly,they Have Already Did Thier Part For Us,thats Why They Call Alot Of Them Vetrens!!i Dont Think As A Nation ,our Children Should Go To Bed Hungry,or With Out A Roof Over Their Heads!! And What About Our Elderly Who Dont Have Enough In Their Checks To Pay For The Meds They Need,or After Paying Their Bills They Cant Buy Food!! Come On People Wake Up!! We Need A President Who Cares About His Own Country First,then We Can Worryabout The Rest.{{{{{hugs To All Our Boys And Girls Over Seas}}}} Your Great!! Jmo


No one said they shouldn't receive help, but I don't believe the government should fully fund ANYONE's living. My grandma fully admits her situation is partly hers and my grandfather's fault because they didn't prepare for their retirement. Her advice to me is put what you can back, because if you don't you will be sorry. That is coming from a 77 yr old lady. She also said she has been told by the dems all her life how they were going to take care of her.

You know what I think is disgusting? People who will expect the government to fully fund their elderly relatives, but won't help their loved ones themselves. Whatever happened to helping your elderly? That is what people did before Social Security. They cared about their relatives. My grandma needs something, we get it for her. If your relatives didn't prepare properly, then you should take care of them, not depend on the govt. to do it all.

[Technologist]

Some say all politicians lie - Most of their lies do not result in the deaths of MANY soldiers or cost us billions of dollars.

:mad: :confused:

I seem to remember a unanimous vote in favor of going to war in IRAQ..... so the congressmen and senators are just as culpable!!!!

*Waves hi to Eric* :cool:

[momfromTN]

I seem to remember a unanimous vote in favor of going to war in IRAQ..... so the congressmen and senators are just as culpable!!!!

*Waves hi to Eric* :cool:


INCLUDING JOHN KERRY !!!!
Thank you Tech!

[schsa]

What bothers me is that if we are going to change the Middle East then we have to change attitudes that are hundreds of years old. And it isn't going to happen. These people are so factioned from years of infighting that they are not going to follow one leader. They would rather fight and kill than educate and build. These were once some of the greatest nations in the world and now they are barely third world.

If we go in to change things then let's blow the whole thing up, take out any opposition and put in place the people we want. We can start our own dicatatorship and call it a democracy or a republic. But do it with all of our forces and get it done and over with. We don't need another Vietnam. As much as we talk about humanitarianism, when you are at war, it doesn't always exist.

Every day that passes by, more young men and women are dying. More of their people are dying and their resentment of us is going to build to the point where it will be them against us and not just a few rebels here and there. We are at risk of making things much worse if we don't take care of business now.

[jcw]

How is drawing social security depending on the goverment when they make you pay into it all your life?

[sahmsfreeb]

i know i am going to loose alot of friends i made here because of my opinion that i am going to post but here goes.....


dh's career has been better now that bush has been in office. dh's job was sent to singapore during the clinton administration.. which had a republican congress at the reigns...
as much as i dislike clinton i cannot blame him for everything that went wrong... just as much as i cannot blame bush or give bush kudos...

the problems with our schools start with our local governments and work their way up to the state level... if you have a bad school start with the school board then work your way to your representatvies....allow the voucher system to go through! there really isnt much that the federal govenrment can do! i can count on two hands how many parents come to our monthly pta meetings! and i belong to a good school!

as for the starving in this country... how many of us can say we help them? oh yes we donate at thanksgiving time...big whoop.... if we were to all donate monthly.. imagine what we would cure and solve!
i saw an example of this yesterday... i went to a local curch to donate 3 large rubbermaid containers of gently used toys... how many of us would of thrown those away? then on the way back home an old man and his pickup truck were broke down in the middle of a BUSY road! No one stopped.
i did... first i asked him if he needed to use my phone... then i offered to help him push his truck out of the way... finally an old man walking on the sidewalk (after watching me) came over and helped push the truck too..

why? we as americans fail to see the real story.. it is easy to talk the talk but how many of us walk the talk? then dh reamed me an new a hole cause i helped a stranger! and hes right... but why didnt a man stop and help?

lets start with the welfare system.. i know of 3 people who milk it! and admit to it! start with them. yet again this is a problem on the local and state level! i bet if our state representatives got on that ball so much money could be put elsewhere! to people who really need it! too many people on welfare smoke and drink! these 2 things are luxuries! why can they have luxeries when i bust my butt saving money by not going to the movies or eating at burgerking! the one constantly uses her cash for cigaretts but cries when she doesnt have money for christmas!
(ive got nothing agains cigs! it is a constutional right! )

"but i deserve" it has become the mantra of the united states! this is why no other country likes us. perhaps this is why we have the highest obesity rate out of all the other nations in the world!

the elderly going without meds... well this is a tough one that yet again the blame must be placed on the local government. does anyone really know where thier local taxes go to? perhaps just a dollar more out of our pockets could help many of our local elderly... but then again we dont want our taxes raised do we? how many of us give to local charities? I cried in my pew a few months ago because someone in my church placed a 100 dollar bill in the collection basket for the poor!

dh and i are busting our bunns to make sure that we have enough for retirement..
my parents didnt do that.. infact their mantra..."i payed into it" is chanted daily... yet my father had money to smoke and drink... now my mother who is perfectly capable of working wont... i have pity to a point... but if you make your bed you need to lie in it.... my parents along with others in the medicare/caid system never did take responsibility for their actions...
the welfare medicare/caid system is there for people who really need it....not for people who milk it...

as for the oil issue too many people dont realize that we get most of our oil from venuzuela! not the middle east... we have a plethora of oil in alaska but the democrats wont let us dig there! remember alaska is the size of almost the continental US! the area to be used for oil would be the size of rhode island...

draft? i doubt it... with todays technology the need for humans grows less and less...
remember everyone in the armed forces VOLUNTEERED.

as for the deficit... i remember learing in history class ( a lonnnng time ago )
that the deficit is traced back to the REVOLUTIONARY WAR! we are still paying that off!


i know i will offend many with this post... it is not ment to do that.. it is only ment to show what the other side of the fence is like....

stop blaming the president(s) and lets put the blame where it belongs.. on ourselves..

[BigLyd1]

sahmsfreeb,

ITA and I think you said it very well. :)

[llbriteyes]

I am a supporter of Bush and the war in Iraq (this coming from a West Virginian Democrat,lol!) I see it as a move to change the face the Middle East. I think that by introducing democracy into the Middle East,starting with Iraq, it may help to stabilize the region. I think that if these people have a choice, they will choose to live their lives in peace and be glad to make their own decisions and choose their own leaders. Poverty does not cause terrorism, terrorism causes poverty. This is why the terrorists are attacking and killing Muslims, to scare them and keep them cowered. They don't want them to succeed, because if they do, the terrorists will have no safe quarter.
I don't want to spend any more money than we have to in Iraq and I am tired of seeing good, decent, honorable men and women die. But I don't believe that we can back out, now, it would be the worst choice we could make. Back out now and the terrorists win, they will think that the USA is weak and our country could become as terror ridden as Israel.

Couldn't have said it better.

And to add... I agree that our deficit has not been and probably won't ever be under control.

Linda

[momfromTN]

How is drawing social security depending on the goverment when they make you pay into it all your life?


Not all elderly we have now paid into it all of their lives.

[momfromTN]

i know i am going to loose alot of friends i made here because of my opinion that i am going to post but here goes.....


dh's career has been better now that bush has been in office. dh's job was sent to singapore during the clinton administration.. which had a republican congress at the reigns...
as much as i dislike clinton i cannot blame him for everything that went wrong... just as much as i cannot blame bush or give bush kudos...

the problems with our schools start with our local governments and work their way up to the state level... if you have a bad school start with the school board then work your way to your representatvies....allow the voucher system to go through! there really isnt much that the federal govenrment can do! i can count on two hands how many parents come to our monthly pta meetings! and i belong to a good school!

as for the starving in this country... how many of us can say we help them? oh yes we donate at thanksgiving time...big whoop.... if we were to all donate monthly.. imagine what we would cure and solve!
i saw an example of this yesterday... i went to a local curch to donate 3 large rubbermaid containers of gently used toys... how many of us would of thrown those away? then on the way back home an old man and his pickup truck were broke down in the middle of a BUSY road! No one stopped.
i did... first i asked him if he needed to use my phone... then i offered to help him push his truck out of the way... finally an old man walking on the sidewalk (after watching me) came over and helped push the truck too..

why? we as americans fail to see the real story.. it is easy to talk the talk but how many of us walk the talk? then dh reamed me an new a hole cause i helped a stranger! and hes right... but why didnt a man stop and help?

lets start with the welfare system.. i know of 3 people who milk it! and admit to it! start with them. yet again this is a problem on the local and state level! i bet if our state representatives got on that ball so much money could be put elsewhere! to people who really need it! too many people on welfare smoke and drink! these 2 things are luxuries! why can they have luxeries when i bust my butt saving money by not going to the movies or eating at burgerking! the one constantly uses her cash for cigaretts but cries when she doesnt have money for christmas!
(ive got nothing agains cigs! it is a constutional right! )

"but i deserve" it has become the mantra of the united states! this is why no other country likes us. perhaps this is why we have the highest obesity rate out of all the other nations in the world!

the elderly going without meds... well this is a tough one that yet again the blame must be placed on the local government. does anyone really know where thier local taxes go to? perhaps just a dollar more out of our pockets could help many of our local elderly... but then again we dont want our taxes raised do we? how many of us give to local charities? I cried in my pew a few months ago because someone in my church placed a 100 dollar bill in the collection basket for the poor!

dh and i are busting our bunns to make sure that we have enough for retirement..
my parents didnt do that.. infact their mantra..."i payed into it" is chanted daily... yet my father had money to smoke and drink... now my mother who is perfectly capable of working wont... i have pity to a point... but if you make your bed you need to lie in it.... my parents along with others in the medicare/caid system never did take responsibility for their actions...
the welfare medicare/caid system is there for people who really need it....not for people who milk it...

as for the oil issue too many people dont realize that we get most of our oil from venuzuela! not the middle east... we have a plethora of oil in alaska but the democrats wont let us dig there! remember alaska is the size of almost the continental US! the area to be used for oil would be the size of rhode island...

draft? i doubt it... with todays technology the need for humans grows less and less...
remember everyone in the armed forces VOLUNTEERED.

as for the deficit... i remember learing in history class ( a lonnnng time ago )
that the deficit is traced back to the REVOLUTIONARY WAR! we are still paying that off!


i know i will offend many with this post... it is not ment to do that.. it is only ment to show what the other side of the fence is like....

stop blaming the president(s) and lets put the blame where it belongs.. on ourselves..



Thank YOU!

[latestdish]

In addition to all that has been said (I am slightly biased as a registered Dem, but try to be as fair as I can), I wish he would give more funding to our men and women overseas, and to the VA hospitals. Tired of hearing about all the cuts all the time. Tired of hearing how cities and states have to cut their police and fire depts, too, on a local level. Maybe can we have a private sponsor for the White House Xmas, instead of spending a lot of money on it this year with all of our problems (instead of government money), and give it to our men and women overseas? Or to something else, like education, health care, and food for the hungry? As far as helping other nations out, I have to slightly disagree about that one. We should help other nations, but balance that with helping our own. This is a very international world now. When we help others, long term, we are often helping ourselves when done properly. Just my .0000000004 worth.

[LuvBigRip]

And just how much will it cost this country in lives lost, insurance settlements, and property damage for another 9/11 style attack? I think the money is better spent removing the regimes that foster terror and rebuilding their country, than to have to pick up the pieces of our own country again. JMHO

[girlwithsoul]

My uncle works for the Army and in the Pentagon....he's incredibly smart and important and a registered Republican. I, however, am a registered Democrat so you can imagine we have some really interesting conversations.

Anyway, while I don't agree with the money being spent and know that it would be of better use here I will quote what my uncle said (who, by the way, never EVER thought we should go to war and he says most higher ups that he works with agreed): "If you go into a store and break something....you buy it....period. Unfortunately for us....we broke Iraq and now we have to take responsibility." While we should never have gone in in the first place....we're there now and have to suck it up and take care of things. The money being spent though really does make me sick....think how many medical and educational programs could be set up for our citizens with all of that money. Many European countries offer some kind of government help, I know Canada does too, but not us. Sigh.

[mudbugred]

Have you folks been listening to Bush, the idiot on TV today. He is such a piece of crap!!


I am a supporter of Bush and the war in Iraq (this coming from a West Virginian Democrat,lol!) I see it as a move to change the face the Middle East. I think that by introducing democracy into the Middle East,starting with Iraq, it may help to stabilize the region. I think that if these people have a choice, they will choose to live their lives in peace and be glad to make their own decisions and choose their own leaders. Poverty does not cause terrorism, terrorism causes poverty. This is why the terrorists are attacking and killing Muslims, to scare them and keep them cowered. They don't want them to succeed, because if they do, the terrorists will have no safe quarter.

How can you support someone that has been responsible for so many of our young men and women dying!! Are you CRazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have no idea of what you speak. The middle east does not need our intervention to show them peace. We seem to think we are the best at peace, well, lets see, the civil war was the bloodiest war in history. The war was this war fought... in THE USA! Bush does not care about you or any one else. He is big business and that is all. He has our country fouled!!!! If we do not get him out of office we are doomed.

[mudbugred]

Just to let you know my son is in the Coast Guard. Not a stupid woman.

[twinkiesmom]

People should help their aging relatives and don't.
umm. how tf can a person help their aging relatives when alot of ppl can't help themselves? Our jobs are going overseas along w/our taxpayers' money to help rebuild something we'll never see. The SS I'm paying in is helping my relatives, your relatives. We will never see a dime of it. Not now. And these aging relatives have paid their share in too. Don't be so quick to judge how my aging relatives should live or even if they paid in or not.

[momfromTN]

Just to let you know my son is in the Coast Guard. Not a stupid woman.


No one said you are stupid.
God bless your son. I thank him for helping keep us free. God bless all the soldiers and their families.

Edited: TO remove a rude sounding retort. Sorry.

[momfromTN]

umm. how tf can a person help their aging relatives when alot of ppl can't help themselves? Our jobs are going overseas along w/our taxpayers' money to help rebuild something we'll never see. The SS I'm paying in is helping my relatives, your relatives. We will never see a dime of it. Not now. And these aging relatives have paid their share in too. Don't be so quick to judge how my aging relatives should live.


SOME people don't help when they can and should. I NEVER said EVERYONE doesn't help their relatives and I certainly did not name you personally.

Edited: Because I sounded very rude and I am sorry.

[momfromTN]

To those of you who politely debated with me or agreed with me, thank you for your considerate nature and manners. To those who didn't, well I will agree to disagree with you and bow out gracefully. Have a blessed day.

[twinkiesmom]

SOME people don't help when they can and should. I NEVER said EVERYONE doesn't help their relatives and I certainly did not name you personally.

Edited: Because I sounded very rude and I am sorry.

no offense taken . . . . was just simply adding my opinion to how I read your post. ;)

[AngelGrim]

umm. how tf can a person help their aging relatives when alot of ppl can't help themselves? Our jobs are going overseas along w/our taxpayers' money to help rebuild something we'll never see. The SS I'm paying in is helping my relatives, your relatives. We will never see a dime of it. Not now. And these aging relatives have paid their share in too. Don't be so quick to judge how my aging relatives should live or even if they paid in or not.
About the job thing, we have had 3 plants here shut down and move to other countries. So many people are out of work in this area, but yet the ones that are able to get jobs barely make enough to take care of themselves, we did vote for our taxes to be raised to help our school but it still isnt' enough and since our school is small they said we don't need as much funding from the govt. I have my opinions and I don't bash bush, just what is going on, let the fault fall where it may. None of us actually know EXACTLY where the money is all going and none of us probably ever will. I not one time have ever said a bad word about our fighting people, they I am proud of, it is the ones in control I am upset with. So please people realize that all those soldiers I pray for and would never blame them.

[msmom79]

I Hope None Of You Were Offended By Anything I Have Said Or Written,bcause They Are Just My Opinions,i Think As A Nation We Need To Wake Up,we Have People Here Dying Daily,cause Of No Food,shelter,fans,meds,yes As Family Members We Can Help,but Then We Can Only Do So Much.im Not A Bragger,but The Whole Time I Was Raising My Family,i Was Also Raising My Nieghbors Child(literally Raising My Nieghbors Child),and Also Helping To Raise My Sisters Kids.so Yes I Have Put My Own Dollars Out There,to Help Others.and You Can Bet If My Mother Needed A Bill Payed Or Food I Would Be There In A Heart Beat Doing It.alls I Was Saying Is We As A People,government Should Help Our Own First.here Is The Simple Way To Put It(you Would Help Your Kids,hubby,wife,mother,dad,grandma,grandpa First Before You Would Help A Stranger,and This Is How Our Government Should Think And Do,they Should Help Us First,before We Help Total Strangers.lets Rebuild The United States First,because Of All The Comments I Heard On Here ,were All A Little Bit Afraid Of What Is Happening To Us.but Most Of All Were Worried About Our Troops Over There.(my Brother Just Got Back From A Year And A Half In Kuwait.) So Yeah I Know Some Of What Is Happening Also,my Bro Says Its Sensless Fighting,he Cant Even Talk About Alot Of It Cause It Makes Him Sick!! Were All Human Beings And We Just Need To Help Everyone We Can,and If You Cant Help By Money Or Food ,then Just Give Someone A Smile Or Hug,carry Someones Grocerys For Them,cut An Elderly Persons Yard,just Be A Friend. And Dont Forget Most Of All To Say A Prayer For Our Troops!! These Are Just My Thoughts...

[EricsnKy]

I seem to remember a unanimous vote in favor of going to war in IRAQ..... so the congressmen and senators are just as culpable!!!!

*Waves hi to Eric* :cool:

Yes under the leadership of the president stating our reasoning was to find WMD.


* Hi Tech ! :D *

[EricsnKy]

i know i am going to loose alot of friends i made here because of my opinion that i am going to post but here goes.....


dh's career has been better now that bush has been in office. dh's job was sent to singapore during the clinton administration.. which had a republican congress at the reigns...
as much as i dislike clinton i cannot blame him for everything that went wrong... just as much as i cannot blame bush or give bush kudos...

the problems with our schools start with our local governments and work their way up to the state level... if you have a bad school start with the school board then work your way to your representatvies....allow the voucher system to go through! there really isnt much that the federal govenrment can do! i can count on two hands how many parents come to our monthly pta meetings! and i belong to a good school!

as for the starving in this country... how many of us can say we help them? oh yes we donate at thanksgiving time...big whoop.... if we were to all donate monthly.. imagine what we would cure and solve!
i saw an example of this yesterday... i went to a local curch to donate 3 large rubbermaid containers of gently used toys... how many of us would of thrown those away? then on the way back home an old man and his pickup truck were broke down in the middle of a BUSY road! No one stopped.
i did... first i asked him if he needed to use my phone... then i offered to help him push his truck out of the way... finally an old man walking on the sidewalk (after watching me) came over and helped push the truck too..

why? we as americans fail to see the real story.. it is easy to talk the talk but how many of us walk the talk? then dh reamed me an new a hole cause i helped a stranger! and hes right... but why didnt a man stop and help?

lets start with the welfare system.. i know of 3 people who milk it! and admit to it! start with them. yet again this is a problem on the local and state level! i bet if our state representatives got on that ball so much money could be put elsewhere! to people who really need it! too many people on welfare smoke and drink! these 2 things are luxuries! why can they have luxeries when i bust my butt saving money by not going to the movies or eating at burgerking! the one constantly uses her cash for cigaretts but cries when she doesnt have money for christmas!
(ive got nothing agains cigs! it is a constutional right! )

"but i deserve" it has become the mantra of the united states! this is why no other country likes us. perhaps this is why we have the highest obesity rate out of all the other nations in the world!

the elderly going without meds... well this is a tough one that yet again the blame must be placed on the local government. does anyone really know where thier local taxes go to? perhaps just a dollar more out of our pockets could help many of our local elderly... but then again we dont want our taxes raised do we? how many of us give to local charities? I cried in my pew a few months ago because someone in my church placed a 100 dollar bill in the collection basket for the poor!

dh and i are busting our bunns to make sure that we have enough for retirement..
my parents didnt do that.. infact their mantra..."i payed into it" is chanted daily... yet my father had money to smoke and drink... now my mother who is perfectly capable of working wont... i have pity to a point... but if you make your bed you need to lie in it.... my parents along with others in the medicare/caid system never did take responsibility for their actions...
the welfare medicare/caid system is there for people who really need it....not for people who milk it...

as for the oil issue too many people dont realize that we get most of our oil from venuzuela! not the middle east... we have a plethora of oil in alaska but the democrats wont let us dig there! remember alaska is the size of almost the continental US! the area to be used for oil would be the size of rhode island...

draft? i doubt it... with todays technology the need for humans grows less and less...
remember everyone in the armed forces VOLUNTEERED.

as for the deficit... i remember learing in history class ( a lonnnng time ago )
that the deficit is traced back to the REVOLUTIONARY WAR! we are still paying that off!


i know i will offend many with this post... it is not ment to do that.. it is only ment to show what the other side of the fence is like....

stop blaming the president(s) and lets put the blame where it belongs.. on ourselves..

I am not offended at all - A lot of the points you made are very relevant and it was very well said. WTG

[twinkiesmom]

Our government is making sure our soldiers in Iraq get their good ole American fast food, but they can't provide adequate housing? The whole thing is surreal and idiotic.
That's cuz McDonalds and KFC prolly gave billions n billions to the republican election fund. :D

[jcw]

Raven it's awful that your brother and others have to live like that. That is so wrong. I think some of our leaders should live like that a little while and see how it feels. This war that is "over" sure is hurting a lot of people

[stresseater]

Hmmm...every time I read about the costs of this war I consider that my brother is over there living in a shack built out of scrap materials dug out of the dump, but he can go to the mess hall and be served catered food by waiters wearing ties.
Yes but a lot of people in that country live in houses like that. At least the boys and girls can have a taste of home. :D :D

[stresseater]

But that isn't my brother's home. And I don't think a single American soldier over there had anything to do with the lifestyles of the Iraqi people.
No but two things, first this thread was started because some think we are spending too much money over there to begin with and i bet burgers cost less than houses. Second, some people over there resent the US and how would waltzing in and setting up shop in nice buildings and structures for "our" people help the Iraqi people get over their resentment? :confused: :confused:

[Sunshine00]

Just one question. HOW is BUSH responsible for the deaths of so many people? Granted, he sent these people over there... BUT THEY WENT! When they sign up for Armed Services, they KNOW what they are getting into. They KNOW that they COULD go fight in a War. Yet, they still sign up. (for all those who have family overseas.. THANK YOU!)

Did anyone blame Clinton when we lost a lot of soliders? Probably Not! Did anyone blame Clinton when the "USS Cole" got blown up and we lost people? Probably not! Heck, as far as I can remember Clinton didn't hardly do anything about it.

Sad that everyone is so quickly to blame the President.

Think of things this way when you go to cast your vote for President this year.

Who would Saddam Hussien Vote for?

[momfromTN]

Just one question. HOW is BUSH responsible for the deaths of so many people? Granted, he sent these people over there... BUT THEY WENT! When they sign up for Armed Services, they KNOW what they are getting into. They KNOW that they COULD go fight in a War. Yet, they still sign up. (for all those who have family overseas.. THANK YOU!)

Did anyone blame Clinton when we lost a lot of soliders? Probably Not! Did anyone blame Clinton when the "USS Cole" got blown up and we lost people? Probably not! Heck, as far as I can remember Clinton didn't hardly do anything about it.

Sad that everyone is so quickly to blame the President.

Think of things this way when you go to cast your vote for President this year.

Who would Saddam Hussien Vote for?


Very Good!

[schsa]

The President gets the final blame because he is the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces. Regardless of what goes on over there, the buck stops at his desk. He is kept informed on a daily basis of what is going on over there, where the troops are and what they are doing. He has the final word over how many of our children and fathers go to war. He can remove Generals that he feels are not doing their job and replace them with others. He has to be responsible to the American people for everything that goes on over there.

He's already passed the blame for the way the POW's in Iraq were humiliated to Rumsfeld and that is going to cost him his job. And we all know that 60 Minutes had these pictures for weeks and the Pentagon asked that they didn't show them on air. Don't tell me that Bush was kept in the dark about this. He knew but Rumsfeld is going to be his whipping boy.

[Sunshine00]

BTW - Congress voted on, and passed the bill
that approved the war, and funded the effort. If people are upset about the war, then you need to talk to your state representatives and find out why they voted for it's approval.


Also what about..April's job report released this morning -
288,000 jobs added last month alone! 900,000 new jobs since October of 2003! Who says the Bush economy isn't working?

[schsa]

Once you say that, go through and find out how many jobs were lost. I think that the lost # will be much bigger than those created. And what type of jobs were created? Manufacturing that pays well or hotel workers which doesn't.

[sahmsfreeb]

[QUOTE=schsa]He's already passed the blame for the way the POW's in Iraq were humiliated to RumsfeldQUOTE]


why hasnt the nation gotten this riled up over US civilians, not military who were burned then their bodies dragged through the streets?

what irks me is that there is more coverage of the iraqi prisoners in the media than there was over the civilians over there because of work!
our own nation disrespects its own...

personally in some way shape or form those prisoners deserved everything they got... but it doesnt mean i approve of it either... i believe in the geneva convention and its rules...



BAGHDAD, Iraq - In perhaps the grisliest attack on Americans since Baghdad fell nearly a year ago, residents of the unruly town of Fallujah burned and mutilated the corpses of four American civilians who were killed in an ambush by insurgents. A North Carolina security firm said they worked for it, providing security for food shipments in the Fallujah area.

how much was this on the news? did our news show clips of the burnt bodies? i am sure arab tv did!

[AngelGrim]

[QUOTE=schsa]He's already passed the blame for the way the POW's in Iraq were humiliated to RumsfeldQUOTE]


why hasnt the nation gotten this riled up over US civilians, not military who were burned then their bodies dragged through the streets?

what irks me is that there is more coverage of the iraqi prisoners in the media than there was over the civilians over there because of work!
our own nation disrespects its own...

personally in some way shape or form those prisoners deserved everything they got... but it doesnt mean i approve of it either... i believe in the geneva convention and its rules...



BAGHDAD, Iraq - In perhaps the grisliest attack on Americans since Baghdad fell nearly a year ago, residents of the unruly town of Fallujah burned and mutilated the corpses of four American civilians who were killed in an ambush by insurgents. A North Carolina security firm said they worked for it, providing security for food shipments in the Fallujah area.

how much was this on the news? did our news show clips of the burnt bodies? i am sure arab tv did!


I have to agree

[cleaningla]

[QUOTE=schsa]He's already passed the blame for the way the POW's in Iraq were humiliated to RumsfeldQUOTE]


why hasnt the nation gotten this riled up over US civilians, not military who were burned then their bodies dragged through the streets?

what irks me is that there is more coverage of the iraqi prisoners in the media than there was over the civilians over there because of work!
our own nation disrespects its own...

personally in some way shape or form those prisoners deserved everything they got... but it doesnt mean i approve of it either... i believe in the geneva convention and its rules...



BAGHDAD, Iraq - In perhaps the grisliest attack on Americans since Baghdad fell nearly a year ago, residents of the unruly town of Fallujah burned and mutilated the corpses of four American civilians who were killed in an ambush by insurgents. A North Carolina security firm said they worked for it, providing security for food shipments in the Fallujah area.

how much was this on the news? did our news show clips of the burnt bodies? i am sure arab tv did!

We knew when we went over there what Saddam and his regeme were like. We knew that they beat, murdered raped and tortured. Their dragging Americans through the streets was no suprise, because that's they way they are.

The only thing that Bush has ever said that I agree with is the behavior of those soldiers in that prison is un-American. No person anywhere deserves to be treated worse than you would treat an animal. Even Saddam isn't treated as badly as the people in that prison were treated.

I for one didn't need to see Americans dragged through the streets and I'm sure their family members didn't want to see it over and over again.

[justme23]

Hmmm...every time I read about the costs of this war I consider that my brother is over there living in a shack built out of scrap materials dug out of the dump, but he can go to the mess hall and be served catered food by waiters wearing ties. And now that they've decided to make his base a PERMANENT U.S. base they're getting a McDonald's and a KFC.

Our government is making sure our soldiers in Iraq get their good ole American fast food, but they can't provide adequate housing? The whole thing is surreal and idiotic.

I don't know where your brother is, but I assure you, they ARE working on adequate housing... my Uncle is one of the soldiers over there helping to build it... well he was until 5/5, he got to come home! All of Saddams palaces have been turned in to OUR palaces... our soldiers sleep there every night... they now (as opposed to when this started) have running water (cold and hot) and cool a/c. It's really hard to get the whole picture... I know... but I also know that EVERY time they fixed something in the first 8 months my uncle was there ... the Iraqis would destroy or steal it... it's not that we can't give them adequate housing, they are trying very hard to do so but it's hard to keep it adequate when the Iraqis destroy it as soon as we get it built/fixed. They complain because they have no water and sewer runs through the streets... they say it's because of us... it's not true, it's their own ppl digging up the pipe to sell as scrap... they complain because their electricity only works half the time... they say it's because of us... it's not true, it's their own ppl tapping in to power supplies illegally and overloading/draining the power before it can get to the end of the line. There's alot to consider... and yes, there are some soldiers still sleeping in crap conditions but it's NOT because we aren't trying to provide for them... I can't even begin to tell you how many buildings my uncle helped build for our soldiers... they are working as fast as they can!

[momfromTN]

OMG! President Bush is getting more power than the Almighty and is supposed to be clairvoyant too. Now he is to blame for some unruly soldiers being a-holes? Please! This is getting to be almost laughable. I am not picking on anyone here and you all are entitled to an opinion, but THE MAN IS NOT GOD, people. He cannot possibly KNOW when someone is going to act like an A-hole. Maybe there are reasons that we don't know about or NEED to know about as to why they sat on these pics. Pics can be doctored, you know. Come on! Can we please stop giving the president more power than he has, already! Next thing you know he will be getting blamed for the rain next time you want to have a picnic, LOL! AND Rumsfeld should not lose his job over it either. Why is it his fault some soliders decided to act almost as bad as the Iraquis? If he planned it and condoned it, that would be one thing. But he didn't and doesn't and should not lose his job. Those SOLDIERS should be canned and fined, IMO. Thats like saying your boss should be fired for you screwing up on your job.

Yes, he has the final word on things. In fact, my cousin is being deployed by the end of the month, and is PROUD to SERVE his country. But, Pres Bush did not plan the torture and humiliation of those prisoners.

Anyone here think they can do a better job, go ahead and run for office. I know for a fact I wouldn't want the thankless job.

[girlwithsoul]

[QUOTE=schsa]He's already passed the blame for the way the POW's in Iraq were humiliated to RumsfeldQUOTE]


why hasnt the nation gotten this riled up over US civilians, not military who were burned then their bodies dragged through the streets?

what irks me is that there is more coverage of the iraqi prisoners in the media than there was over the civilians over there because of work!
our own nation disrespects its own...

personally in some way shape or form those prisoners deserved everything they got... but it doesnt mean i approve of it either... i believe in the geneva convention and its rules...



BAGHDAD, Iraq - In perhaps the grisliest attack on Americans since Baghdad fell nearly a year ago, residents of the unruly town of Fallujah burned and mutilated the corpses of four American civilians who were killed in an ambush by insurgents. A North Carolina security firm said they worked for it, providing security for food shipments in the Fallujah area.

how much was this on the news? did our news show clips of the burnt bodies? i am sure arab tv did!




They deserved what they got???? Wow....we truly are no better than Saddam's regime are we? I honestly thought that part of the reason we went over there was to save the Iraqis from torturous people. We went there to help. Now.....how are we doing anything different if we're acting this way to prisoners....whether they deserve it or not should not even be a question. It's human rights.

What would we do if Iraqis were here in OUR country torturing OUR countrymen (evil or not)????? HUH??? That's right.....we'd bomb them. Okay....I'm done.

:rolleyes:

[jcw]

We all know bush is not God.... far from it in my book............. he is the president,the leader, the one in charge of the usa. He is in charge of the military etc.He must (well should) shoulder some of the blame for things that go on.