Hate memorial

[*StarDust*]

CASPER, Wyo., Oct. 28 — Five years after University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard was killed, touching off a national dialogue on gay rights, an anti-gay hate group wants to put up a monument to Shepard’s murder in hiss hometown. The city doesn’t want it, but it is caught in a legal tangle that involves, of all things, the Ten Commandments.


AT SHEPARD’S FUNERAL in his hometown of Casper, Wyo., an anti-gay hate group demonstrated in a park across the street, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, a Baptist minister from Kansas.
Now members of Phelps’ group are back in Casper pushing to be allowed to put up a granite monument in the same park where they picketed at Shepard’s funeral.
The proposed monument would say, “Matthew Shepard entered Hell, October 12, 1998.”
That was the day that Shepard, 21, died of injuries and hypothermia he suffered five days before when two men beat him with a gun butt and left him to die while tied to a fence post in zero-degree weather, after meeting him at a bar in Laramie. Both of the men were later convicted.

‘GOD’S HATE, NOT HUMAN HATE’
“Our message is a message of God’s hate, not human hate,” said Marge Phelps, the reverend’s wife, also of the Westboro, Kan., Baptist Church. “And the concept of God’s hate is found in the Bible. And all it means is that people are going to go to hell if they disobey God.”
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The city of Casper, home to about 50,000 residents, wants to say no but may not be able to.
The city park where the anti-gay group wants to put the Shepard monument already has a monument, this one honoring the Ten Commandments from the Bible. And under the law, if the city wants to keep this Shepard monument out, then the Ten Commandments will have to go, too.
Why? Because, legal experts say, the city unwittingly invited other monuments when it put up the Ten Commandments in a public park.
“By putting the Ten Commandments in the park, they created a sort of public forum for speech and debate,” said Tom Goldstein, a First Amendment attorney and appellate court lawyer. “And once the city does that, it can’t discriminate against other viewpoints, no matter how hateful.”

MAYOR OFFENDED BY ‘FILTH’
‘The fact that Reverend Phelps ... would come into Casper and try and put that filth under the guise of the Ten Commandments is total idiocy.’
— BARB PERYAM
mayor of Casper, Wyo. Casper Mayor Barb Peryam said she was offended by the Kansas group’s tactic. “The fact that Reverend Phelps, or Mr. Phelps, would come into Casper and try and put that filth under the guise of the Ten Commandments is total idiocy.”
Bob Crosby, president of the local Eagles Club, which donated the Ten Commandments, said the Eagles reluctantly offered the city a way out: “We would hope they would donate it back to us, and we can display it in an appropriate place.”
Now the city council must decide what to do about this monument, concerned that the Ten Commandments could be used to force the city into accepting a message of hate.

[*StarDust*]

Here's the link to the story, they also have a video of
the news story.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/986318.asp

[suziebee20]

Westboro Baptist Church is not on my good list... they picketed outside our school after the shooting saying God hated "fags" and our school was shot up as a lesson because our school was full of gays. In my opinion, these people have problems taking such tragic situations and trying to make them more painful then they already are. I hope they can stop this statue from being put up.

[*StarDust*]

I seen this on the news and it made me sick to think
they would want to put that up. What is wrong
with them, it's sick and hateful, he was already
killed in a horrible fashion and now they won't
let him rest in peace.

[wyozozo]

We as a state and I particularly as a citizen of this fine state am FED UP WITH PHELPS!! Wyoming needs to be remembered for more than this tragedy. Below are 3 letters to the editor of the Casper paper that seem to show I'm not the only one who has had their fill of Phelps and his followers...

Peculiar piety

Editor:

Alas, another event for the Fred Phelps media circus of fear. What did I personally observe Oct. 19, and what mores of Christianity the false followers of Phelps were engaged in the nonobservance of. I observed so-called God-fearing Kansans dragging the U.S. flag in the dirt and spitting on it. One young man singing the lyrics to an AC/DC tune called "Highway to Hell" or "Godless Rock-and-roll." The so-called woman leader who inferred to me that a private part of my anatomy was missing and I also heard the expletive "f" word when she was describing a church. She also claimed to know my sexuality. As a man who is no saint, I found these things sad but somewhat amusing. However, the disturbing behaviors as a man who reads God's word is what should be the focus.

When I personally asked a few sign hangers why if Hell is the place of external torment for sinners and if they took pleasure in anyone's going there, the incredulous answer was yes. Yes? Not the God of my understanding. Anyone can be forgiven.

My next question was how are you so sure Matthew Shepard in the last hours of his life didn't ask for and find forgiveness for all of his sins and was taken home -- no human can answer that question.

The most disturbing aspect was to see the raw hatred and fear in their eyes. It is not my focus to debate who is a sinner or what is sin. I'm too busy looking at my own shortcomings before the almighty to concentrate on anyone else. What I know 100 percent sure is this: My life should have ended Sept. 11, 2000, in an auto accident in central Iowa. In what I thought was the last few seconds of life I learned a lot of things. During the process of recovery I was acquainted with two women who asked me how I was doing. They were always feeding me and I became good friends; later I discovered that they were lesbians.

I ask the mind-set of such people -- are they any less human beings or my friends because I didn't know then about their relationship? To the God I understand, hypocrisy is the greater "sin" than that of their relationship.

If this is the conduct of God-fearing, all-knowing "Baptists" in Westboro Baptist Church, Topeka, Kan., I'm glad it isn't here.

LOREN SHETLER, Casper

Zealots can 'prove' just about anything

Editor:

For the obvious reason, let me say that I am in love with a Green River gal named Debra Estes who lives in Plattsmouth, Neb., with me. We both were upset by the Los Angeles Times article reprinted in our local paper, The World-Herald.

I am a member of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, Deb isn't. We both are annoyed at the way the "Rev." Fred Phelps distorted the Bible. In quoting Leviticus 18:22, he should have compared the earlier in the same book of Leviticus verses 6-17; and compare that to the book of Genesis, Chapter 20-12!

One book commands the reader not to uncover the nakedness of any near or distant relative; and then we find old Abraham having not only "knew" his sister (his father's daughter by a different mother), but God even supernaturally let the old couple have a baby!

What does this prove? That you can prove anything and nothing by using the books of the Bible. And hate-filled religious people of this world are the one ingredient that will put our planet into the dustbin of cosmic history.

The REV. EMMETT HOCTOR, Plattsmouth, Neb.

(This letter was edited.)


Show me where Bible says America

Editor:

The Rev. Phelps is a reverend, which means he teaches the "word of God." I have read the Bible and I have never come across anything, anywhere where hate is taught.

The Bible teaches love, acceptance and, most of all, respect. Mr. Phelps is teaching hate. There was one sign of his in particular that really bothered me. "God hates America." I don't understand what that is supposed to mean. Did he get that out of the Bible? I highly doubt it. He says that homosexuality is a sin; I say that as long as two people love each other, whether straight, gay, lesbian or bi, then it doesn't matter. Love is the most important thing that we can give.

God does not hate; God loves all of his children. Mr. Phelps says that all homosexuals will go to Hell. As long as we are good people and we give and receive love, acceptance and respect, we will all go to Heaven. Mr. Phelps is taking his own words and putting them in God's mouth; that is not teaching the "word of God," that is teaching the "word of the Rev. Phelps." God does not hate!

STEFFANEY CARAWAY-LIEUALLEN, Casper

For this I fought?

Editor:

When I saw the picture of the Topeka, KS. "church" folks Oct. 18, I prayed what I saw was just a bad angle on a photo taken in front of the Star-Tribune building. Then I realized it wasn't. Shown in all their glory are two people dragging American flags down a Casper sidewalk and bearing hate posters. Today, 34 years after a fun-filled tour of duty in Vietnam, I (and others who served there and elsewhere) realize just how important our military service was to preserve American rights, freedoms, and values. Sadly that must include the freedom of these Westboro Church Baptists from Kansas who deface our flags and spread hate. It's good to know they can exercise their freedom of expression.

KURT BROWALL, Riverton

[peaceluver]

That is so horrible. How can anyone say they are representing God when they behave in this manner? I for one am a christian and think that man should remember what the Bible says about not judging lest you be judged also.

[suziebee20]

Another thing that gets me is this man wants to put up a monument for a murderer... well, even if God hats gays, doesn't he hate murderers as well?

[msmom79]

DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOU.WHEN SOMEONE LEAVES THIS PLANE FOR THE ONE IN THE SKY,I THINK THEY SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE,IF ANY STATUES SHOULD BE PUT UP,SHOULDNT WE HAVE MORE OF GOD(THEN)PEOPLE??

[cleaningla]

Originally posted by msmom79
DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOU.WHEN SOMEONE LEAVES THIS PLANE FOR THE ONE IN THE SKY,I THINK THEY SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE,IF ANY STATUES SHOULD BE PUT UP,SHOULDNT WE HAVE MORE OF GOD(THEN)PEOPLE??

NO NO NO it's a PARK not a CHURCH there should be statues of green men on green horse and piles of cannonballs. No ten comandmendents, no stars of david, no statues of bhudda. Green men on green horses.

[ckerr4]

Phelps does this sorts of thing on his website also - his website is dedicated to it. He has a running total on how many days Matthew Shepard and Diane Whipple have been in hell (according to him). He advocates the death penalty for homosexuals. He targets schools - schools, as suziebee mentioned - for his hate-filled picketing. He is, in my opinion, nothing but a fanatical, crazed religious terrorist.

No, let me revise that. He pretends at being a religious terrorist. He is simply using religion as a shield for his extreme hate and irrational fear. I understand that some people believe homosexuality is wrong - I don't agree, but I understand they believe differently than I. However, this man honestly wants gay peopole arrested and put to death for being gay. He would like it if all homosexuals burned in torment. He makes me physically ill.

Somebody will figure out what to do. I imagine a group like the Souther Poverty Law Center, or another civil rights organization could override Phelp's case with ease.

[MistyWolf]

I don't know, but this so called "church," in my eyes is doing nothing but fueling fire for more hate crimes and hate crimes are a federal offense, and since they are conspiring the hate they are spewing, they should be stopped by the law.

And I agree with statues in parks .. green men on green horses are good! Leave the religious statues in the churches.

And for the men who tortued Matthew like the did, I hope they are getting thier due payback!

[Angelseyes28]

Leaving religion completely out of this...
Whatever happened to good old fashion common sense?! That so called "monument" they are proposing is the biggest crock of crap I have ever heard of.:rolleyes:

[milkshake74]

I wonder if Phelps realizes that he is the one who is actually going to hell for being so hateful. This makes me sick to my stomach.

[zitra]

That is just wrong!

[schsa]

There is no way that decent people will allow this monument. I have read all of this garbage and if they want a monument, put it in their own church as a show of their own hatred for others.

That town will fight these religious bigots to the very end. They are very ashamed of what happened there and I don't see anyone in that town agreeing to this monument.

[katiebear]

Phelps and his crew came here to Pittsburgh on the day of Mr. Rogers's memorial to protest. There's a sick bunch, in my opinion.

[wyozozo]

Here is Phelps latest plan.....

Phelps wants monuments across the land

By BRENDAN BURKE Star-Tribune staff writer
Rev. Fred Phelps of the anti-homosexual Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., on Wednesday announced plans to place monuments denouncing slain University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard in cities and towns around the nation.

The monument, which proclaims that Shepard, who was gay, is in hell, will be placed in cities that have Ten Commandments monuments on display in publicly owned facilities.

"We are going to pock-mark this nation from sea to shining sea with this message on the monument: ... 'Matthew Shepard entered hell October the 12th, 1998, at age 21 in defiance of God's warning, 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination' -- Leviticus 18:22,'" Phelps said in a telephone interview. "That is the message this nation needs, whether it knows it or not or whether it wants it or not. And that's the message we are determined the nation is going to receive."

The announcement comes on the heels of a decision by the Casper City Council to reject placement of one of Phelps' monuments on city-owned property. Casper is the first place Phelps has tried to place one of his anti-gay monoliths; Rupert, Idaho, is the second.

In a letter sent Wednesday to Minidoka County, Idaho, Phelps announced his intention to purchase "a three-foot-by-four-foot section of your courthouse lawn for erection of a six-foot granite monument" identical to the monument he wants to place in Casper, the letter said.

Phelps made this request to Minidoka County because the local chapter of the American Legion wants to buy a piece of land on the courthouse lawn to erect a Ten Commandments monument, the letter said.

Minidoka County Clerk Duane Smith said it is unclear whether the American Legion could legally buy a piece of the courthouse property for any purpose.

"What we need to do is see what authority the county has over the property that our buildings are sitting on," Smith said. "There is some question if it is not used by the county for county purposes, the deed reverts back to the city. We are not sure we have the proper ownership to allow it even if we wanted to."

The issue of whether to allow Phelps to buy a portion of the courthouse property cannot be addressed until the county finds out if it can legally sell courthouse property, Smith said.

However, the possibility of someone like Phelps wanting to put up a monument espousing unpopular views was brought up Monday at the Minidoka County Commission meeting where the American Legion members made their proposal, he added.

If it is possible for the county to sell a small portion of courthouse property, the sale would be conducted as an auction in accordance with Idaho law, Smith said.

Phelps' work to place his anti-Shepard monuments around the nation suffered a setback Tuesday when the Casper City Council unanimously voted to reject his request to place one of his monoliths on city property.

"Mr. Phelps, you are not welcome" in Casper, said Councilman Paul Bertoglio before the vote. "Under no circumstances will your monument be allowed to be placed on city property."

The council on Tuesday also approved a plan to remove the city's Ten Commandments monument from City Park and place the Decalogue in a new city-owned monument plaza on the southeast corner of Beech and Second streets.

By keeping the display of the Ten Commandments on public property and simultaneously disallowing the display of his monument, Phelps, a disbarred lawyer, contends the City Council has taken actions that are in violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

"They made a law that we can't have our religious message alongside other religious messages," Phelps said. "One thing that is relatively immutable in the opinions of the Supreme Court over the decades is that government has no business deciding who is right about religion and who is wrong about religion. I don't see how you guys could be so doggone dumb as not to see that.

"Just carrying on like it is some neutral thing ... that's baloney, that's a patent satanic lie. They did that so we cannot preach our message because they don't believe in our religious message," he said.

Phelps added that he has not made a decision on pursing litigation against the city to force it to allow his monument on public property, he said.

The Freedom of Religion Foundation of Madison, Wis., the group that first requested Casper remove the Ten Commandments from City Park, has also not made a decision regarding litigation against the city, Dan Barker, of the foundation, said Wednesday. But the group does not approve of the plan to move the Decalogue to a historic plaza, he added.

"We do like to sue. And we do sue on things like this," Barker said. "And there is a real good chance we would if the city wants to maintain religion on public property."

One factor in determining whether the Freedom From Religion Foundation will pursue litigation is if the foundation can find a local resident who is willing to be a co-plaintiff in such a case, Barker said.

"In past cases, there have been enough local residents who have been brave enough to sign on as plaintiffs. And we are sure we will find them, we already know a few, but we would have to respect their wishes so that it really is a local issue, it's not just us coming in," Barker said. "That is the only way to do it really because they have standing, we are sitting in another state here, but they have the standing."

If either the Freedom From Religion Foundation or the Westboro Baptist Church decide to sue the city and are successful in these cases, the city of Casper would not only have to pay for its own legal fees, but also the legal fees incurred by the plaintiffs, Barker said.

In one recent separation of church and state case won by Barker's organization in Tennessee, a school board and county had to pay plaintiff legal fees totaling $82,000, he said.

[wyozozo]

And Casper has voted on the monument...
City Council decides to create monument plaza

By BRENDAN BURKE Star-Tribune staff writer
On a 5-4 vote the Casper City Council on Tuesday decided to move the city's Ten Commandments monument from City Park to a new historic plaza on the corner of Beech and Second streets.

The council also unanimously voted to reject an offer from Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., to place a monument declaring slain gay University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard is in hell anywhere on city property.

The decision to move the Ten Commandments to the new plaza is designed to keep the monument on public property and in a context that will play up the Decalogue's historic value.

Several council members stated that by highlighting the historic value of the Ten Commandments, the city will be less vulnerable to potential litigation.

However, spokespersons for both the Freedom From Religion Foundation of Madison, Wis., and the Westboro Baptist Church said the move is nothing more than an attempt to circumvent the law laid down by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in 2002 when it ruled in the case of Summan v. Ogden , which states a city that displays a Ten Commandments monument must also display monuments espousing more unpopular beliefs.

The motion to place the Ten Commandments monument in the new plaza was introduced by Councilman Paul Bertoglio and seconded by Councilman Ed Opella, after the council voted on another 5-4 vote to take the monument out of City Park where it has been since 1965, the year the Fraternal Order of Eagles donated it to the city.

Along with Bertoglio and Opella, Councilwomen Jacquie Anderson, Lynne Whalen and Mayor Barb Peryam voted for the plaza plan.

Council members Barb Watters, Guy Padgett, Renee Burgess and Mildred Lamb, who had to participate in the meeting via telephone due to incapacitation caused by a broken ankle, voted against the proposal.

Watters, Padgett, Burgess, Lamb and Peryam voted to remove the monument from City Park.

"This is where our statement of faith, our statements of values, our backbone belongs," Peryam said while endorsing the historic plaza plan. "And for those outsiders who think they can run our city, I say, 'Thank you, thank you very, very much.' Because, you know what, if you think that we are going to put our monument someplace in cold storage, I've got another thought for you. We are going to put it where it will be more noticed, more taken advantage of and used for learning purposes by all families.

"If we are going to be taken to court for this action, then so be it," Peryam added. "Bring it on because this is a battle I firmly believe we can win."

However, neither Dan Barker of the Freedom From Religion Foundation nor Shirley Phelps-Roper of the Westboro Baptist Church shared Peryam's assessment of the city's chances in a court case defending the constitutionality of the historic plaza plan.

"It looks like a ruse; it looks like a trick for them to keep it," Barker said. "It would probably be unconstitutional because the intention of the city is to maintain a religious document. The reason they are doing that is to keep the Ten Commandments."

Phelps-Roper agreed with Barker.

"What they have done is a thinly veiled attempt to do an end run around the Constitution," she said. "What they did here was try to create a way to avoid having to deal what the 10th Circuit said they must do."

Barker was unable to say what his organization's next move on the matter of Casper's Ten Commandments will be.

Phelps-Roper, however, said her church will "explore our options." Asked if those options include litigation, her response was, "Of course they do."

After the City Council approved moving the Ten Commandments to the new plaza, Watters introduced a measure to give the Decalogue back to the Eagles if a lawsuit is filed against the city challenging the constitutionality of the historic plaza. The measure failed.

The Casper City Council has been embroiled in a controversy over the Ten Commandments since last month, when the Freedom of Religion Foundation sent a letter to the city asking for the monolith's removal.

The foundation claims having a Ten Commandments monument on city property is a violation of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

The controversy deepened when Phelps announced plans to place a monument in City Park near the Ten Commandments.

City Manager Tom Forslund said the Ten Commandments monument will probably be removed from City Park and placed in temporary storage some time in the next month. He was unsure, however, exactly when the move will be done.

The idea for the new historic plaza is based on a plan utilized by the city of Grand Junction, Colo., that withstood a legal challenge from the American Civil Liberties Union in 2001.

Under the plan adopted Tuesday, the city of Casper will construct a plaza on city-owned land located on the southeast corner of Beech and Second streets. The Ten Commandments will be joined in the new plaza by monuments honoring the Declaration of Independence, the Preamble of the United States Constitution and other documents vital to the historic development of American law, Forslund said.

The city budgeted money to renovate the now-vacant plot into a plaza of some kind when it passed its fiscal year 2004 budget in June.

Design work on the historic plaza should begin this winter and bidding should take place next spring, Forslund said. Hopefully the plaza will be finished in a year, the city manager added.

The new monuments for the plaza will cost the city between $4,500 and $5,500 each, Forslund said.

[laughsalot]

Lord have mercy! WTF?! This makes me angry! I do not know how anyone can say they worship God and then act like he is acting. Let Matthew Shephard rest in peace! That is all I will say.

[jonette5]

I am soooo sick of all these homophobic crack pots that are running around now. They are just plain ignorant! I keep getting letters from some "family council" group wanting me to help them make sure gay marriages are never allowed. I have thrown two letters away but the next one I get I am going to call them and give them a piece of my mind!

I am a straight person who totally does not care if people are gay! SO WHAT! I have a few gay friends and I think nothing of it. I feel gay people should have all the same rights as I do. Why shouldn't they? We should not think of ourselves as gays, straights,black, whites, etc....we should think of ourselves as HUMAN BEINGS! Plain and simple...all equal!
IMO...the only people that will go to hell are the ones that hate, murder, rape, steal, etc... and if you truely belive the bible (which I don't) even those folks can get to heaven if they "redeem" themselves.

All the homophobic jerks like this should be made to live with a gay person for a few months and maybe they would learn that they are people just like everyone else...some good, some bad!

This Phelps guy is a nut case if you ask me!

[Syrinx]

Originally posted by jonette5
We should not think of ourselves as gays, straights,black, whites, etc....we should think of ourselves as HUMAN BEINGS! Plain and simple...all equal!


I agree with you, and think the world would be a much better place if more people thought that way.

This kind of blind hatred makes me sick.

[jen-ron]

Hey ya'll. I grew up in KS and this man is truely a crack pot. My dad has some really interesting info on him. I will get ahold of him and post it in here soon. But seriously, he has been a major embarrassment for the ppl of KS since he started and 99.99% of the population hate him for what he represents. I dont discriminate against anyone either, for that matter, I have gay relations, mixed relations, fully diffrent race relations but ya know what? We're all still one race and thats the human race. So theres my speal and Im gonna call Dad and find out what I can about Phelps for ya'll so you can see what a sick individual he really is.

[Azriel_LittleHawk]

this is just nauseating.

[Azriel_LittleHawk]

in other words..it's sad that someone would do this over someones deth...it's just sickening.

[*StarDust*]

I don't think it's anyone's business how
any of us choose to live our lives, if there is
someone to answer to at the end it's our problem
not someone elses, we all make our own decisions and
have to live with them. If any of us are really
living the "wrong" type of lifestyle(if there
is such a thing) then
we'll be the ones to pay in the end.

Isn't he claiming to be a christian??
I really don't think it's christian to
love only the ones who live the way
you deem to be a fit lifestyle and hate
the rest.:rolleyes:

Sorry I can't seem to come up with the right
wording for what I really want to say
that man and this story just get me
so mad and sad that I can't seem to
get what I want to say out just
right.

[jerseybarb]

A rabid homophobe like Phelps makes me think- Just why is he SO anti-gay? Maybe he is a latent homosexual himself.

[DivineMsDi]

We have controversy at a high school in the next county. Maybe some of you have seen the story on tv or in the papers. It is about high school footballers who were sexually attacked by some of their team-mates during hazing in PA over the summer. Anyhow, some out of state religious nuts were protesting over at the high school about 2 weeks ago and they were claiming something against gay people...totally stupid and totally unrelated. They were implying (if I get this right) that the attacks were by gays or caused by gay people...????

[suziebee20]

Originally posted by DivineMsDi
We have controversy at a high school in the next county. Maybe some of you have seen the story on tv or in the papers. It is about high school footballers who were sexually attacked by some of their team-mates during hazing in PA over the summer. Anyhow, some out of state religious nuts were protesting over at the high school about 2 weeks ago and they were claiming something against gay people...totally stupid and totally unrelated. They were implying (if I get this right) that the attacks were by gays or caused by gay people...????
That is awful! It's pitiful how they twist things around like that. It seems like everything bad, according to him, is because of homosexuals. This happend because of homosexuals, gay people made that happen... oh yes- the fires here in CA... those were caused by gay people also. :rolleyes: I don't know anything about what happened with the footballers, but after all that this nut has said, I'm sure the incident didn't have much to do about sexual preferance.

[MommyG3]

I hate people who say they are Christians and act like this. IMO, God loves Matthew. I don't agree with homosexuality, but I won't throw stones or tie a homosexual up and beat him/her to death. These jerks aren't true Christians.