Man this is bull!

[Donnagg123]

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[LadyBones]

I think that i swrong also!

[schsa]

Maybe the parents can get a good lawyer to see what they can do about this. I understand that cops have to be very wary of everyone who has a weapon but arresting a 9 year old for a toy doesn't make much sense.

[Donnagg123]

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[suziebee20]

How sad, I hope his parents do something.

My friend got stopped by a cop because she was walking down the street with her wooden color guard rifle- which looks so fake anyway. They didn't arrest her, they just wanted to look at it and make sure it wasn't real. IMO though, toy guns shouldn't be sold, but still, how can you arrest a young child for having a toy?

[suziebee20]

Is this it??

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031029/ts_alt_afp/us_guns_offbeat_031029221048

Busted: cops charge nine-year-old over toy gun scare
29 minutes ago Add U.S. National - AFP to My Yahoo!



CLEVELAND, United States (AFP) - A nine-year-old boy arrested at gunpoint and accused of creating a public disturbance by waiving a toy gun in the air will not face charges, but his mother is being charged with obstruction, Ohio prosecutors said.


AFP-Getty Images/File Photo



"The facts did not support a criminal prosecution" of the child, said Jeff Manning, the Lorain county prosecutor who reviewed the case against nine-year-old Thomas Clark.


However, Clark's mother, Tamyka Saunders (correct), was charged with resisting arrest and obstructing official business in connection with the incident, and pled not guilty in a hearing Tuesday.


The charges stem from an incident on Saturday when the youngster was arrested at gunpoint, handcuffed, and taken in a police cruiser to the police station in Lorain where he was charged with "inducing panic."


Clark was playing with the plastic gun outside a salon where his mother was having her hair done, after a passing motorist noticed the child, and called police with a report that a black male was waving a handgun in the air, according to a police report.


A patrolman dispatched to investigate the report found the boy sitting on a bench waving the plastic gun in the air in this northeastern Ohio town, 42 km (26 miles) west of Cleveland.


"I ordered him to drop the gun and lie on the ground," wrote office Joe Novosielski in the report.


According to his report, Novosielski then realised he was dealing with a juvenile and a plastic gun that had been spraypainted with black paint but proceeded to handcuff the child and put him in the police cruiser.


Clark's mother came running out of the salon, and attempted to intervene, pleading with the officer to let her son off with a warning.


"'He was just playing ... he didn't point it at anyone, don't you have anything better to do?'" the report quoted her as saying.


The 28-year-old woman attempted to yank her son out of the officer's grasp, at which point he cuffed her too, and drove mother and son to the police station.


A pre-trial hearing in Saunders case has been set for November 14, according to the Lorain city prosecutors' office, which is handling her case.

She faces up to 270 days in jail and a fine of up to 2,250 dollars on the three counts, according to Mark Provenza, a Lorain municipal legal official.

Havn't read it since I'm going out the door to go shopping in a second, but thought I'de post it.

[Donnagg123]

I'm sure that is it Suziebee20, thank you!! :)

[justme23]

Perhaps it's because I don't have kids so I don't get the sheer terror that goes along w/ this experience... However, kids younger and younger are getting their hands on guns every day... and those fake guns are *supposed* to have at the very least a bright orange tip on them so ppl will know they are fake... this one obviously lacked it, meaning SOMEONE took it off (it's illegal to sell them w/out it now)... and perhaps you all think it is wrong that this child happens to be the one the police decided to make an example out of. But considering everything this country has been through law wise in the wake of 9/11, things like this (even if you think it's bull) are to be expected and ANY parent in their right mind should know better than to put a gun, that from a distance, can not clearly be seen as fake, in the hands of a child... ESPECIALLY in public. If there is anyone in this situation that ppl should be mad at, it is the mother... and I'm not taking a 'blame the parents' stance, just a THIS parent stance... for anyone who is stupid enough to put a gun in the hands of a child that ppl can't tell is fake is as dumb as a door knob.

[laughsalot]

oh my goodness, That is a insane, they didnt have to pull their guns on him.

[MsLynn]

i understand your point on this, but i just want to add,

alot of cops have been killed because they have hesitated because they "thought it was a toy", all toy guns these days are supposed to have orange tips on them so they are clearly identifiable as toys.

i'm sorry but i do believe the cops were justified, they would have arrested an adult doing the same thing. so FLAME ME, NOW I'M READY FOR IT.

[Donnagg123]

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[Donnagg123]

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[MsLynn]

the good thing is that this will go away when he turns 18. i think its better he learns now. and also remember it may be the policy of the dept, the officers may not have had a choice. BUT I DO UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. we've arrested lots of juveniles for things the parents thought we should have let them go for but sometimes you simply have no choice. and like i said. hopefully he's learned his lesson and his record will be sealed when he turns 18

[moogle]

I think the mother should have been arrested for stupidity.
What was she thinking letting her son take a toy gun that looked real out in public???? I guess maybe she wasn't thinking.......

[zitra]

Originally posted by moogle
I think the mother should have been arrested for stupidity.
What was she thinking letting her son take a toy gun that looked real out in public???? I guess maybe she wasn't thinking.......

I agree..and it said that the mom tried to grab her child from the officer (that was stupid in itself)

[momfromTN]

Why is this considered a racial issue. Not everything is racial. God knows if I saw a kid out with even a toy gun I would be wary. You can paint a real gun's tip orange too. You just have to be careful and this kid's parents are responsible for this incident too.

[zitra]

Originally posted by momfromTN
Why is this considered a racial issue. Not everything is racial. God knows if I saw a kid out with even a toy gun I would be wary. You can paint a real gun's tip orange too. You just have to be careful and this kid's parents are responsible for this incident too.

Maybe I missed somehing (I only scanned through the posts didn't read them all) but I didn't remember seeign anyone saying anything about race?

[justme23]

Originally posted by Donnagg123
**This is NOT a FLAME** Just curious, would it have made a difference if you DID have children and this child was yours? TIA :)

I'd never let my child play w/ a toy that was spray painted black so ppl couldn't tell it was fake so it's not something I'd have to worry about!


"The facts did not support a criminal prosecution" of the child, said Jeff Manning, the Lorain county prosecutor who reviewed the case against nine-year-old Thomas Clark.


However, Clark's mother, Tamyka Saunders (correct), was charged with resisting arrest and obstructing official business in connection with the incident, and pled not guilty in a hearing Tuesday.


Just wanted to point this out from the article... the child won't have a record, he wasn't prosecuted and it's likely that they WOULD have let him go after a stern talking to if the mother hadn't made a scene.

[justme23]

Originally posted by zitra
Maybe I missed somehing (I only scanned through the posts didn't read them all) but I didn't remember seeign anyone saying anything about race?



Originally posted by Donnagg123
I know! I kinda think they only did this because he is black.

[zitra]

Originally posted by justme23


Thanks..didn't see that

[Dolly<3]

That poor kid. :( I don't blame the cops for how they handled it. It's not like they were out to scare the heck out of some little kid, or ruin his life. They did what they thought was best.

His mom though... what in the world was SHE thinking?? :rolleyes:

[Donnagg123]

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[zitra]

No matter what the case the police ALWAYS call it in as a Black male/Woman, White male/ woman, HIspanic male/woman..it is so officers arriving on the scene can identify the suspect better..it doesn't make it about race..ALL police officers do this...

I think that people are sayign it was bad jusgment on the mother's part for allowing her son to play with a toy gun what was spray painted to look real...also I think most people would know not to fight with the police ie tryign to pull her son out of the officers arms...maybe she wasn't unjusified in being PO'd but she was wrong for fighting with the officers, and allowing her child to have that toy.

[momfromTN]

It is true, they call in descriptions using race. It is not meant to be an affront to anyone.

[Donnagg123]

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[zitra]

Originally posted by Donnagg123
The officers did not call it in as a black male. The caller did. I believe (in my opinion) that the officers made their judgement based on that. Also, I agree it was bad judgement for the mother to allow her son to play with the toy, and again I do not condone children playing with them fake or real. But the fact is that they should not have even attempted to arrest him for having it. That is what I am po'd about. Also, again, I am looking at it from the mother's perspective. As a mother, if I saw my child being what I thought was harmed or harrassed by a police officer...like say my child was playing in the front yard and the next thing I look out and there are guns pointed at my child and then they are arresting him...I would not come out all polite and say excuse me officers is there a problem? I would be like oh hell no! What are you doing to my baby??!! Hind site is 20/20 and I am sure she would not have acted so rash given the situation again. But I am sure she just saw her child in pain and was trying to help him. It is a bad situation all around.

I am sorry but if I had seen something I thought needed to be reported, and the offender happened to be black, I would call it in as a black male too..If the person was white i would say white male, etc. If you call 911 they always ask for a description of the person you see commiting the offense (offense in the caller's mind) what are you supposed to say..it is a man, but I can't say his race, becuase I might appear racist? IMO it is normal to tell a person's race to help the police identify a person if you are callign 911 (they also ask you).

This may be an unpopular opinion, but in my opinion if the mother was in a buisness she should have made her son come in with her, not left him outside on a bench...

[Donnagg123]

I am not going to say anymore about it. I was just venting about something that had me po'ed. I didn't want to make people mad. Sorry for venting.

[Donnagg123]

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[justme23]

Originally posted by Donnagg123
I am not going to say anymore about it. I was just venting about something that had me po'ed. I didn't want to make people mad. Sorry for venting.

I don't think anyone is mad and certainly not mad at you... I am sorry if I made you feel that way in any fashion.

[zitra]

Originally posted by justme23
I don't think anyone is mad and certainly not mad at you... I am sorry if I made you feel that way in any fashion.

I agree, I ma not mad at you, we are just stating oppsing views, and stating why the caller probably called it in the way they did...

[AngelGrim]

My husband is just having a fit over this, he and I seem to think, hmmmm what harm is there to check it out first,BEFORE arresting anyone! and he is really yelling now about it, never does this, saying aren't these police smarter then this, boy is he upset.

[jen-ron]

Ok just want to add one small detail here. The PO noticed BEFORE he handcuffed the child that the gun was a toy. Therefore no crime was commited and he had no right to cuff him.
"According to his report, Novosielski then realised he was dealing with a juvenile and a plastic gun that had been spraypainted with black paint but proceeded to handcuff the child and put him in the police cruiser. "
Any mother would get upset over this. But, she should have know better than to try to fight with the police.

[cch]

I guess I'm on the odd end here, if that would have been my child I would have been arrested for assulting an officer, cause I'd have knocked him a good one when he grabbed my kid, especially if he could clearly see it was a toy! My 5 y/o plays with toy guns all the time, we live in a community that hunts wildlife, he knows about gun safety, and in a couple of years will be allowed to hunt with his father & me, he's already learning how to use a scope. I guess guns aren't as big of a deal here, I don't know.

That officer had no right to arrest a 9 y/o CHILD for simply playing with a toy!

[momfromTN]

Well, once it was established it was a toy, they should have let him go. If it is true that they knew it was a toy, yet cuffed him, they are wrong.

[zitra]

Originally posted by jen-ron
Ok just want to add one small detail here. The PO noticed BEFORE he handcuffed the child that the gun was a toy. Therefore no crime was commited and he had no right to cuff him.
"According to his report, Novosielski then realised he was dealing with a juvenile and a plastic gun that had been spraypainted with black paint but proceeded to handcuff the child and put him in the police cruiser. "
Any mother would get upset over this. But, she should have know better than to try to fight with the police.

actually from what i heard the "crime" is having the gun that has been painted to look real.. SO accordign to the law a "crime" was commited

[moogle]

To me the problem was still with the mother. She never should have let a child take a toy gun out in public. Plain and simple. How could anyone be that dumb?