I'm worried he will steal it again

[mesue]

Bush aka "the shrub" will steal the election again like he did in 2000, we all know that it was an election that was not fair, some folks in Florda was not even given the opportunity to vote much less have them counted wrong of course this was all counties with a heavy democrat vote, if 85% part of their name resembled a felons they were not allowed to vote, next day the mistake was corrected but they were not allowed to vote, too late. These were just some of the dirty little tricks pulled. With all the people out of work and Bush spending like theres no tomorrow, well a lot of us are up a certain creek without a paddle and under Bush things are not getting any better, that means before long there will be more of us up the same creek people are worried about keeping their jobs and more and more companies are closing so there is going to be less taxes paid and even I know that means less money means you have less to spend, unfortunately no one has explained this simple concept of economics to Bush and company. I'm not sure this country can stand another 4 years of Bush.

[momfromTN]

Those "tricks" you say happened, were proven to be false for the most part. The recounts have been done several times, by different organizations, etc, and whether you like it or not, every recount, that I am aware of, comes out with Bush winning. Research it. Even Democrats have done the recounts, so this is not a party-friendly thing.

Look, this is like beating a dead horse. The man won, he is in the White House, so worrying about him winning again is not going to change what IS for now. I didn't like Clinton one bit (and I am not saying everyone who hates and disrespects our president did either), but we simply endured for 8 long years. I found him to be ineffective and a wuss, besides being a perjuror, which he should have gone to jail for. JMO.

Unemployment due to layoffs is not the president's fault. Find fault with my dad's company that sold off to Mexico. Find fault with greedy companies like my DH's that laid him off so they could hire a person for less money. Everything in the country that is wrong is not one man's fault. Is it his fault that gas stations hiked prices up on 9/11? For no good reason? Greed is what propelled that crap.(In fact, one in Indiana I know of personally, raised the gas to nearly $5 a gallon.)

The war surely doesn't help things, I know, but our country managed to come back after WWII and the Gulf and other wars, and we will come back again after this one is over. And you forget that some unemployment is due to SOME people not being willing to find work, because it might not make them rich. I know this because my bummy brother and some of his friends are like that. I have worked 2 jobs at once to make ends meet before. And Mesue, I am thankful for your son in law and all our military.

Bush also has helped get raises for the military. All Clinton did was close bases and dwindle our Intelligence and FBI, which, IMO, helped 9/11 to occur easier than if he hadn't been so quick to pare down our national defenses. I also think Pres Bush dealt with the 9/11 tragedy a lot better than Gore would have.

The man is not without his faults. No one is perfect and never will be. If a more worthy oppenant were to run, I would vote for him/her. If not, I will back Pres Bush, should he run again.

[PreciousDarlin]

I think that was very well stated momfromTN and I agree completely. I tend not to say much about the president either for or against him because I did not vote in the 2000 election because of moving and change of address/voter polls, but all in all, I think our president has done a wonderful job dealing with the happenings since he took office. And just a little bit of history, if my memory serves me correctly from school. Just because a candidate wins the popular vote, does not mean he wins the election because it is actually the Electoral College that casts votes to elect the president. Normally the popular vote winner gets the vote of the electoral college as well, but on at least one other occasion in history, that was not the case. Here is a link on how the Electoral College works:
http://www.fec.gov/pages/ecworks.htm

[momfromTN]

Thank you.

[moogle]

Since when did the popular vote decide the presidency??
(I think this is how it should be, though....)

I learned that it was the electoral college, which could
be different from the popular vote.
(Not saying that this happened, just that it is possible.)

Backing out of here before I get hit......

[momfromTN]

Fireball, you and I will never agree on this subject, so I will not engage in a sparring match with you. Now.....

"You put de lime in de coconut...":)

[Technologist]

I have never seen a grudge last 3 years.....

With regard to voters being turned away from the polls...
Statistics From the Federal Election Committee:

2000 Voting Age Population
US = 205,815,000
Florida = 11,774,000

2000 Registered Voters
US = 156,421,311
Florida = 8,752,717

% Registered Voters of Voting Age Population
US = 76
Florida = 74.3
(variance = 1.7)

TURNOUT (total vote cast)
US = 105,586,274
Florida = 5,963,110

% TURNOUT of Registered Voters
US = 67.5
Florida = 68.1
(variance = 0.6)

% TURNOUT of Voting Age Population
US = 51.3
Florida = 50.6
(variance = 0.7)

The point all these numbers (especially the percentages) makes is a simple one:

Florida's percentages for the number of people that registered as voters, the percentage of people that voted (turnout), and the percentage of the voting population that voted is comparable to the percentages of the US as a whole...

In other words, voters in Florida did the same as voters elsewhere in the US (on average).....

1. of all the people that were eligble to vote, ONLY ~75% of them registered to vote,

2. then only ONLY ~68% of the registered voters actually voted.

3. BUT worst of all, of all the people that were eligble to vote, ONLY ~51% of them registered to vote AND then voted!!!!

So, for everyone that has a problem with who is president now, you have 2 things to do before the next election...

Tell everybody that is eligible to vote that they have to vote.... and you have to make sure and vote. Don't be like the ~49%, that don't take the time to register, then actually vote, then spend 4 years complaining!!!!!
:( :( :(

[zitra]

Originally posted by Fireball
The electoral college is determined by the popular vote.

The popular vote doesn't decide the presidency; it never has.
But the popular vote in each state--like Florida--determines how their electoral votes will go. That's why the recount was started, too see if Florida's electoral votes would go to Gore or Bush.
If everyone who was turned away from the polls (only to have their voting rights reinstated the next day)had been able to vote, the popular vote would have been enough to give the electoral vote to Gore.

That's why people will never "get over it."

Correct me if I ma wrong, but i heard on a locla radio show, when this was going that the electoral college does not have to go along with the popular vote. They usually do, but they can also go against it.

[momfromTN]

You are correct Zitra.

[justme23]

I'm sorry, but things ARE getting better... as I stated in your last bush post, ppl around here are getting jobs left and right. Some ppl may be taking jobs they are over qualified for RIGHT NOW but ppl ARE working. There's also been several ppl w/in my husbands company that have gotten offers from various places that include rather large pay raises (one of them was a 14k raise). These are ppl who do tech support over the phone, not ppl who are big time computer gurus (well they ARE gurus, but as far as computer jobs, they still sit pretty low on the pole to be getting 14k raises), so I'd say that's a pretty GOOD improvement in the economy. Perhaps it's just DFW that is experiencing this (I know it's not, you can look on any job search engine on the net and see listings all over the country), but I'd say the economy is definitely coming up.

[redrig]

I voted for him the first time and I'll vote for him again...Bush in 2004.

[NASCAR38]

***** BEATING A DEAD HORSE AGAIN***


:eek: ;)

[momfromTN]

http://b3.lemonred.com/ph/dhorse.gif

[Njean31]

he's got my vote again in 2004, and everyone else i know. well, maybe except a couple:)

[HaveKids,LostMind]

2 more votes for bush outta this texas household!

[NASCAR38]

Originally posted by momfromTN
http://b3.lemonred.com/ph/dhorse.gif



LOL good Pic.

I'm for Mr.Bush 100% :)

[mesue]

My point is does it really matter how we vote? For those of you for Bush I'm sure you want him to win but does it matter how he wins? I personally did not like Gore but saw him as the lesser of two evils so he got my vote, sadly most of the time thats what it boils down to with what we've had running. Bush has done exactly what I feared he would do only worse. I see him as one of the the worst presidents if not the worst we have ever had, I think history will prove me right, but that is my opinion but my point is truely does it matter how we vote if it is a rigged election, for those who are republicans it should matter, if reports are correct Richard Nixon would have won in 1960 had it not been rigged. In case you don't know (for the younger generation) he was a republican.

[NASCAR38]

My point is why keep going on and on about it ?? it's not going to change anything Like i said before it's like "Beating a Dead horse" ;)

[momfromTN]

My Goodness! Nixon too? How about Carter, Ford and Reagan? LOL! Of course we care how someone gets elected. I just do not believe all the hype.
The election was not rigged, and the man won. The only reason the recounts were a small news item was because Bush won. If they had been recounted and Gore won, then it would have been ALL OVER the news.
I think history will prove me right. But, if not, I will own it. Not a problem.

[Technologist]

My last comment on this (since some people ignored the numbers)....

How can you rig an election, by rigging one state??? Suppose somebody did want to rig the election.... you need more than one state to do it...

Somebody did not sit down, at the Bush family reunion, and say "psssst, let's get Jeb to fix it so George will win Florida...."

THERE ARE 49 OTHER STATES TO WORRY ABOUT!!!

This whining arguement has no creedence....

The only point is if you don't like the results, GET MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE... only 50% of the people eligible to vote did vote...

[mesue]

Yes elections can be rigged, go to http://www.angelfire.com/nh/hca/jfk.html
sorry for the popups on this page will post more if I can find a better one.

As promised here is another one called; "If You Want To Win An Election, Just Control the Voting Machines" the link to this is
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0131-01.htm

I'm sure there are multiple ways to rig an election and if you do a search I'm sure you can find more, Nascar38 that old horse just got up and run off.LOL Who drives 38 I assume that is who you are for, hubby is a Kenny Shrader fan. Me I don't like racing but I did like Dale Earnhart Sr. just cause I once seen them ask him after a race he lost how he felt, instead of saying the usual well you know we had a great car, blah blah blah, he just said, "It always sucks to lose!" I coundn't help but like his honesty.

[NASCAR38]

38 = Dale Sr 3 , Dale Jr 8 ;)

[justme23]

To the person who pmed me in regards to this post... I replied but it said your box is full!

[babystar0729]

I will NOT vote for Bush!!!! andnoone in myfamily either!

[mikang]

I think everything would be great if we had a woman in office!! I think I'll run in 2004!

[momfromTN]

Hey I might vote fer ya!

[Soldierwif]

We already had a woman as President for 8 long yrs. Technically Bill Clinton won, but his wife was running the show.

[momfromTN]

Amen to that! EEEK!

[mesue]

Then if thats true she has already proven what a great job a woman can do, Hilary would certainly have my vote, but then I would vote for Bill Clinton again in a heartbeat if he could run again. Too bad he can't.

[momfromTN]

Thank God!
(ok don't throw tomatoes~I am funnin with ya!)

[mesue]

LOL throws rotten tomatoes at MomfromTn., hate to be throwing rotten ones but can't afford fresh ones with Bush in the White House. BTW I saw a news show where they were going around asking people if they were going to vote for Bush and even most of the republicans who voted for Bush calling Clinton's presidency, "the good old days when the economy was good." A lot of them said they were not going to vote for him again, some said they were and then many said they were going to have to think a lot about it.

[momfromTN]

Yeah, you always have the naysayers with the supporters. Not a suprise.

[hotwheelstx]

Well, I'll get bashed for this but I don't care....I live in the same city as Former President Bush and Barbara.

I coudln't stand them before and I can't stand them now. I'm a die hard/live fast Texas but there's something about that entire family I don't trust.

I also come from a very conservative family...have always voted Republican...NO MATTER WHAT.

There's a lot of things (JMO) that Laura dna Geoge didn't own up to in the first election:

1: Laura was in an auto accident in the last 60's or early 70's and killed a man...yes, he was driving on the wrong side of the road and was intoxicated but it still was never mentioned....It's under the carpet.

2: Bush has been arrested for DUI here in Texas. Didn't serve any jail time...His family money got him out of trouble....Then, if you caught here w/DUI you're arrested? He didn't pay time time for his crime....that's not fair to me.

3: He's wishy/washy about the war in Iraq. Can't decide what he really wants to do....as I'm typing this I'm thinking about Aggie who served in the Army for 22 years.

4: 9/11/01 I don't feel that Bush really did his part to "help" anyone in that situation.

5: Even though I don't care for any of their family Barbara Bush did make an effort while her husband was in office to raise awareness about how important education, being w/your children, making them to feel safe is. I personally haven't seen Laura doing that and she was a teacher for many years.

6: Their daughters...yes, I know they are teenagers and they will do what they will do..........but they are old enough to know right/wrong, know their father is the president and still carry on? I (personally) feel that shows something about Laura and George's parenting skills. They are not w/out fault but don't portray yourself as the "perfect family" in front of all of America. That's just wrong.

7: Jeb Bush-his daughter was in Rehab.? doesn't that say anything about parenting skills? Also, his daughter is/was fully aware that her father was in high power and all know that it could ruin their political career.

8: This really gets me: Some of the "flunders" that George makes w/the English language or makes up his own words. His wife was a teacher for god sakes. He should have her proof read his speaches.

I will not vote for him if he runs again. Well, I didn't the first time. Aggie, my family did. Aggie now is sorry that he did...REALLY.

Why doesn't Bush help the ones that are uninsured obtain affordable ins? His own personal taxes will go up...we can't have that can we? While the "small man" works to pay his dues and goes w/out. Hoping that nothing will happen to his family. If it does/did he couldn't afford it. Then, people wonder why we need Medicare, Medicaid........if someone would impliment a program that we could all have affordable ins., lower taxes I think it would be a better place.

I never saw/read any stories about the Bushe's attending any funeral services for soldiers who lost their lives after 9/11. That's sad to me. He's the COMMANDER AND CHEIF OF THE MILITARY. WHAT HE SAYS IF GOD IN THEIR EYES. That's truly sad that he can send innocent young people out to fight for "God's Country" but can't show up for 1 funeral?

"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."—Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000



"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."—Speaking during "Perseverance Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000

"Oh yeah, the guy who came with the runner" - when asked about a meeting last year with British Conservative leader William Hague who had with him his chief of staff, the ex-Olympic athlete Seb Coe.

"I don't remember debates. I don't think we spent a lot of time debating it. Maybe we did, but I don't remember."—On discussions of the Vietnam War when he was an undergraduate at Yale, Washington Post, July 27, 1999

"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"—Answering a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New Hampshire, in the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999

"I read the newspaper."—In answer to a question about his reading habits, New Hampshire Republican Debate, Dec. 2, 1999

"The administration I'll bring is a group of men and women who are focused on what's best for America, honest men and women, decent men and women, women who will see service to our country as a great privilege and who will not stain the house."—Des Moines Register debate, Iowa, Jan. 15, 2000

"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"—Concord, N.H., Jan. 29, 2000

"Other Republican candidates may retort to personal attacks and negative ads."—Fund-raising letter from George W. Bush, quoted in the Washington Post, March 24, 2000

"That's a chapter, the last chapter of the 20th, 20th, the 21st century that most of us would rather forget. The last chapter of the 20th century. This is the first chapter of the 21st century. "
Arlington Heights, Ill., Oct. 24, 2000

"It's time to get some plain-spoken folks in the nation's capital."

"Marijuana? Cocaine? I'm not going to talk about what I did as a child."

"It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it." ~Rueters, May 5, 2000

"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."~Concord, N.H., Jan 29, 2000

"I was raised in the west. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."

In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000

********

"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbor like you like to be liked yourself."

********

"I understand small business growth. I was one."

New York Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000

********

Bush: "First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day. That's dieciséis de Septiembre, and ..."

Matthews: "What's that in English?"

Bush: "Fifteenth of September."

[Dieciséis de Septiembre = Sept. 16]

Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000

********

"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."

To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia.

********

"States should have the right to enact reasonable laws and restrictions particularly to end the inhumane practice of ending a life that otherwise could live."

Cleveland, June 29, 2000

********

"I think we agree, the past is over."

On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000

********

"People make suggestions on what to say all the time. I'll give you an example; I don't read what's handed to me. People say, 'Here, here's your speech, or here's an idea for a speech.' They're changed. Trust me."

Interview with the New York Times, March 15, 2000

********

"I don't have to accept their tenants. I was trying to convince those college students to accept my tenants. And I reject any labeling me because I happened to go to the university."

Today, Feb. 23, 2000

********

"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have, he can't have it both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."

To reporters in Florence, S.C., Feb. 17, 2000

********

"How do you know if you don't measure if you have a system that simply suckles kids through?"

Explaining the need for educational accountability in Beaufort, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000

********

"I do not agree with this notion that somehow if I go to try to attract votes and to lead people toward a better tomorrow somehow I get subscribed to some, some doctrine gets subscribed to me."

Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000

********

"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less, I pontificate less, although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more interacting with people."

********

"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."

Speaking during "Perseverance Month" at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000

********

"When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who they were," he said. "It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was. Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there."

Iowa Western Community College, Jan 21, 2000

********

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mential losses."

At a South Carolina oyster roast, as quoted in the Financial Times, Jan. 14, 2000

********

"It was just inebriating what Midland was all about then."

From a 1994 interview, as quoted in First Son, by Bill Minutaglio

********

"Keep good relations with the Grecians."

Quoted in the Economist, June 12, 1999

********

"The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I've looked at. I do not believe we've put a guilty ... I mean innocent person to death in the state of Texas."



(JMO)

[momfromTN]

I feel that people have a right to their opinion. I do have some comments on a few things. Please don't take it as an attack. I wouldn't do that to you. :)

*What does an Mrs Bush's auto accident have to do with anything? She didn't "kill" that drunk. He killed himself by being drunk while driving. He could have also killed HER. No offense Hotwheels, but you make it sound like some kind of conspiracy and you are blaming Mrs Bush for someone else's stupidity. I don't see why her accident from the 60s, would have something to do with her husband and the presidency. Not EVERY little single solitary thing in someone's life should have to be aired publicly. She wasn't at fault, so why bother even mentioning it? I could see your point if she was at fault.
(BTW, I would have said the same thing, had it been Hilary Clinton.)

*About the DUI. My brother was arrested and NEVER served in prison for 4 DUIs (he should have), and we are not rich, so money doesn't always help. While I agree all DUIs should be jailed, and laws should be tougher, and Pres Bush should have served time also, most do not serve prison or jail time, the first time around. So this is not a surprise.

*I also wonder about the Bush kids. But a LOT of kids, with or without famous parents, get into trouble. While it is a tragedy, why should they be any different? Jeb's kid is an adult, therefore can make her own choices. The twins are adults too. I have known people who were GREAT parents, whose kids ended up not so hot. It isn't always parenting skills in every situation. But I understand your point. Teddy Roosevelt's daughter, Alice, was a wild child. Should he also have given up the position?

*As far as 9/11 goes, what do you want him to do? I don't fully understand your comment.

*Mrs Bush has pushed reading as being important and I have seen her do that. Granted, she is not as vocal and outspoken like her MIL was. I personally didn't see Hilary Clinton to be doing much except traveling, for the most part and running the country under her husband's name. I find Mrs Bush to be very articulate and intelligent, and I have heard she is quite nice.

*As far as the president and his speech patterns. I will grant that he is not the most eloquent speaker. Perhaps he just is not able to get his thoughts out properly. Some people are like that. I am a better writer and speaker than my husband is. I still like his plain-spoken and folksy manner. He simply needs to polish his skills.

[NASCAR38]

I see "some" are still beating that poor old Dead Horse ..;)




i'm off to the beach today I dont have time to worry about What Mr. Bush is doing today ;) :D :p

[mesue]

Originally posted by momfromTN




I personally didn't see Hilary Clinton to be doing much except traveling, for the most part and running the country under her husband's name.

Now isn't running the country and being a backseat president enough for any woman to do, you expect her to implement reading programs, actually as I recall she started programs to give children rights and to provide advocates for children to improve their rights, children have no real rights, thats why even in this country punishment for people who do harm to children is not harsh enough. I think we can both agree on that.

[momfromTN]

Yeah, I guess I can. It just seemed she was always travelling somewhere on vacation. I do disagree with her "it takes a village" thing. I think I am the proper person to raise my sons, not a "village".

[Njean31]

so anyone whose teenagers are rebellious and doing the teenage thing has parents with poor parenting skills? sorry, but i totally disagree. you can have the best parents in the world and their children can submit to peer pressure and be rebellious.

[zitra]

Originally posted by momfromTN
Yeah, I guess I can. It just seemed she was always travelling somewhere on vacation. I do disagree with her "it takes a village" thing. I think I am the proper person to raise my sons, not a "village".

I agree with you there. I would be ticked if I found out neighbors or other people (outside my family or my child's teacher) reprimanded my son. At home and when I am with my child it is up to ME what is o.k. for my child to do or not to do. It irks me to no end when i am out, and something happens like I buy my sona candy bar at the gas station, and somone will come up and say something like "you shouldn't let him have that, it will rot his teeth". I have even had people who have come to my house, and seen my kids doing somehting they "think" they shouldn't and have todl them to stop..sorry but if I am with my kids at my home, and I haven't made them stop, then I obviously see nothing wrong with it (some of these people will still tell my kids to stop, even after I tell them it is o.k. for them to do what they are doing (like digging in the dirt, running, picking flowers etc.).

My thoughts are unless I give you permission to you have no reason/right to discipline/scold/ my children or tell them what thye shoudl or should not do.

I beleive if my kids are at another person's house then AND ONLY THEN do they have the right to tell my child to do/not to do something (but still don't have the right to punish them..they should call me and let me decide what is apprporite or if they need disciplined). At school I think that teachers have the right to discipline (but no corporal punishment) along with whatever rules disciplnary actions the school has.

I know I am probably in the minority here, but i alos do not agree with letting other family members (MIL/BIL/SIL) discipline my children, unless permission is given or if they are sitting for me..it really pisses me off when I am here, and BIL or MIL think they have the right to jump in and tell my kids not to do somehting, or tell them to do something, or attempt to discipline. I stopped letting my BIL watch my kids becuase of the way he tried to discipline my son...

Sorry if I took over your thread..I guess it is just a really sore subject with me. I really hate when otheres try to discipline other people's children/order them around.

[mesue]

I think what Hilary meant or at least what I took it to mean was that children need more than just their parents, no matter how good a parent you are you can't be with them 24/7 and even if you were you can't keep your eyes on them 24/7. Teachers have your children at school, they have a responsibility to the child and you. After school programs are a neccessity in some areas. If I saw someone hurting a child am I not responsible for calling the police or trying to intervene physically if neccessary. Whether its my child or your child and that child be in danger then someone needs to be responsible and get that child help, thats what she meant. She was saying that we are all responsible for providing for children what they need whether it be medical care, education, safety, food. I don't think she meant that I as a perfect stranger have a right to tell you how to raise your child.

[momfromTN]

Well, unfortunately, that is how a lot of people took it to mean. I know what you mean, Mesue and there is nothing wrong with helping someone, not at all. But, schools and other gov entities seem to think THEY can raise children better than the parents. While in a few cases, I question the parents ability to raise cats, much less children (LOL!), I do think that most of us can raise our kids just fine without being told how to. :)

[momfromTN]

*Sorry double post.:p

[AngelGrim]

I have no idea right now what to think but thanks all for giving me something to think about tomorrow when I am more awake