A Question, could be considered contriversal....

[mjh341]

My 14 year old sister's History teacher gave them an extra credit assignment....to find some little known Civil War facts, but they had to be politically correct and not racist. My question is how do we decide what is politically correct or not racist? My sister did a lot of research and even asked my uncle (who is a Civil War buff for help.) She found several facts that my Mom thought would not be appropriate...like how many people in Polk County ,Ga owned slaves when the war broke out. And the exact number and sexes of the slaves owned. This I understand could upset students, but her teacher refused to let my sister tell 2 facts we thought were OK> Let's face it, when you dicuss the Civil War, there is ALWAYS going to be some one who gets offended. The war was about slavey and states rights and each individual has their own personal beleifs about the war. So here are the facts the teacher would not let my sister say...
when Abraham Lincoln was shot at Ford's Theater all he had in his pocket was a 5 Confederate Bill. I know the word Confederate can be considered racists, but it is what the History book the kids are using call the South. The second is ....The song Dixie was orginally used in Abraham Lincoln's presidental campaign and was called the Lincoln quick step.
How can either of these be racist? Please tell me your opinions, but please be kind. Thank all of you so much.

[kasbat]

Well I was always led to believe that history was the facts of the past good or bad and to learn it properly you need all or most of them....to take whats history and learn from it to improve the world.

[VenusA423]

I don't see anything wrong with the facts that your sister tried to use. I agree that there will always be someone offended about something. And especially when discussing the Civil War. If the teacher wanted some facts, he/she needs to realize that the facts can be ugly....especially during that era. Not saying everything that went on during that time was right, but it's what happened. It's a part of American History. That's my opinion, but what do I know.

[mjh341]

Thanks so much guys!!!! I thought the facts were OK. There are lots of things that went on in that era that were wrong and hurtful and I realize this, but I guess the teacher(who is female) has complete control of the subject matter in the classroom. Thanks again.

[picklepuss]

I think the teacher was wrong for not letting her tell the facts.You can't rewrite history.What happened is what happened.

[DeeTee]

It seems to me that our kids today could learn a lot from history, as ugly as it may have been, and then not repeat those mistakes.

[Syrinx]

That kind of attitude drives me crazy! I can't stand people who think history should be sanitized, and that certain events or attitudes shouldn't be talked about because someone might get offended. There are a lot of ugly truths in American history, and in any country's history, and everyone should know about them so they don't happen again. I think people need to know more about the Civil War and the attitudes of the time, because there is too much ignorance about it. And a teacher is not doing her students a favor by pretending it was different than it was.

And how is mentioning anything Confederate racist? I don't get it, unless they're mixing the current debates over the Confederate flag with the historical Confederacy, which is just stupid.

I think your sister found some interesting facts, and she should have been allowed to share them. I shudder to think what this teacher will do when they get to World War II.

[missymommy]

If you don't talk about racism how can you even tell why the war
happened? They just started fighting each other for the heck of it.
That is what it was all about. A history teacher should not sugar
coat these things. White ppl bought, sold, mistreated, murdered,
raped, and did whatever they wanted to black ppl. It was a horrible
thing that happened and I for one want my child to know what really
happened. I suppose that we went after hitler just because we
didn't like his policy and not the fact that he was commiting ethnic cleansing. I don't even know most of this history because I didn't
learn it in school. They also tell us that the U.S. dropped the first
atomic bomb, but I didn't get to see what really happened until I got
a computer and researched it. I don't see how are children can learn
from the mistakes that have already been made without teaching them
the ones that did happen. I am sure that the would not offend anybody
by telling the truth I believe that it is more offending to sugar
coat what happened. It is our countries history and no it may
not be nice but that is the way it happened. Why bother if you are
not going to tell the truth. (just as a note I am mostly mutt with
alittle blackfoot indian in me, my skin is white)

[adarkangel]

Yeah! What they said!

[Jolie Rouge]

I keep hearing what is some of the most commonly held misconceptions about the Civil War. It was not about freeing the slaves. It was about money, politics and power. Many of the Northerners owed slaves, selling them down south as the Mechanical Revolution took hold. Many of the Northerners who opposed the Confederacy owned slaves themselves. The Emancipation Proclamation freed the slaves ONLY in the states of the Confederacy, but those held in states loyal to the Union were still held as property. The three largest plantations in Louisiana were owned and operated by blacks who held black slaves.
Perhaps the teacher is trying to get the students to look beyond what is commonly held as "truth" and to do a little research past the obvious.
Or maybe not. I don't see how you can discuss the Civil War and not use the term "Confederate".

[freebiegrl22]

Personally, I think those facts that you came up with were brilliant. They were not racist or even controversial in any stance. They are actually fascinating to me. I never knew either of them.

If I was in your child's position, instead of the facts, i would make him write an essay on how no fact known to man can be considered non-controversial b/c people are so incredibly different and take things different ways. The truth is, everything someone might say can be considered controversial. That is the glory of history. We are embracing and learning the past, the differences of yesterday and today.

[Jolie Rouge]

what she said :
If I was in your child's position, instead of the facts, i would make him write an essay on how no fact known to man can be considered non-controversial b/c people are so incredibly different and take things different ways. The truth is, everything someone might say can be considered controversial. That is the glory of history. We are embracing and learning the past, the differences of yesterday and today. a very good point, freebiegrl ...
Galeloa ( I know that is not spelled properly, but I am too tired to look it up - someone please correct me :) ) was sentenced to death because he taught that the Earth revolved around the Sun - and that was considered heresy at the time. Many belived Magelleon to be mad because he believed the Earth was round like a ball, not flat like a disc. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[missymommy]

Jolie Rouge could you tell me of a web site or book that supports this
I love looking this stuff up and I also hate when I think I know what
I am talking about.


Thanks
missy

[kelblend]

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Thanks! I was trying to think of the wording, but you did it for me!:D

[PEACHY]

your sister needs to remind this teacher that she has freedom of speech,,politiclly correct or not,, if shes believes her findings for this study is what was needed then she has the right to her opinion,,if not ask her to talk to the counsler or principal of the school and have her ask them if she has the right to read her studys in front of the class for her grade,,bet the teacher well let her read this then(i could be wrong ,but if it where my daughter thats what i would have her do) as iam sure your sister worked hard on this study and she has a right to her opinion,,here is one for you,,my son almost didnt graduate from high school because his teacher had a different opinion on a history study on the last test that he took to graduate from high,,well i raised all kinds of what for with the superantantint and you know what she agreed with me saying i was right,,everyone has there own opinion and can express it in 100s of different ways,my son graduate and with honors so i would diffentently talk to a super or principal regarding this

missymommy,,i know the civil war was awful but it wasnt just blacks that got raped and killed and abused,,white women where raped and abused as well as well as indians and so on and so on,,those times where just awful

[Getogirl]

I have said it a million times, I hate ignorance!!! That teacher needs to get a clue! How can we work on ending racism if we don't learn from it? I want my kids to be told what all happened & how horrible slaves were treated & stuff. There are words & things that could possibly offend a few, but it happened, it is the truth, it is ignorance that caused it & it is ignorance that refuses to speak the truth! (in this situation-that teacher)

[lilmeanie43]

I don't see a thing wrong with the facts, however there is alot of problems stemming from racial conflicts in schools... someone is always upset, and it is quite possible (despite the fact that it's not possible to discuss this war w/out getting into race) that she doesn't actually have control and that the state run curriculum prevents her from allowing the children to get too deep into such issues. I assure you I am not trying to take her side, however to avoid lawsuits and the such, schools have really had to limit alot of educational stuff to keep ppl in general happy. My history teacher for example refused to teach us about the big boom theory because he wasn't allowed to spend one class period out of the entire year exploring the possiblity of any Gods, specifically the Christian God. He saw it as a horrible thing, and so therefore wouldn't discuss with us what the school board/parents/state curriculum ppl would allow him to teach. He thought they were hypocrits.

Anyways, she could just be covering her own butt and not being the complete jack@ss she's coming across as.

[PEACHY]

right lilmeanie but isnt this teacher being racist right there not letting her sister speak her opinion about history that has already happened,,,i mean there turning it around,,we all have a right to our opinion,,i guess we are suppose to clamp up and not express ourselves while others can.. when we ALL live in a society of freedom of speech

it the same about how blacks slaves where not allowed to read books and learn how to write and if caught who knows what would happen,,ok this teacher is doing the same thing saying this child doesnt have the right to express herself to this class with her findings,,urr!! this boils me lol,,EVERY child has a right to learn and she studied and got her report and findings,,she has a right to express it right or wrong,,well i wish her luck on this one,, it is contreversial

[lilmeanie43]

Maybe I didn't word it right so let me try again. :)

There are ppl above the teachers who decide what is ok for them to teach or not teach and allow in the classroom. No one knows this teachers reasonings and the ppl involved haven't asked. She may not be allowing it because she simply can't due to state curriculum guidelines is what I was trying to say. You don't know if she's being racist because you only have one side of the story, and an admittedly confused side of the story at that.

[PEACHY]

you are right i see your point,,my daughter is a school teacher and she does have guide lines,,i believe speaking for my daughter she would never keep a child from learner and expressing herself. but then again she has superior above her and she has to lesson to what they say,, but this teacher could have guided the lesson in a different manner though, and let the children know what was exactly needed for the lesson in so many words then she wouldnt have had to denie the lesson all together,,i do wish her luck in this,,i would have been a little upset with this myself,,i think iam going to ask my daughter about this one and see if she can advise on it,,i well post back later

[mjh341]

THANKS EVERYBODY!!! I know a lot of little known Civil War facts. Email me if you would like to have them. Again thanks to everyone for responding.
mjh341@cs.com

[Syrinx]

Did you know that it was the current Pope who finally officially pardoned Galileo? My husband (who attended a Catholic school) thinks it's very funny that it took the Catholic church several hundred years to admit that he was right.

[Jolie Rouge]

mjh341 -
I know a lot of little known Civil War facts. ...
Post them ! Post them ! You already know you have an interested group of people here.

[mjh341]

Here are a few for tonight. I will get more together and posted Wednesday.


Hookers were named after General Hooker. His troops were followed by groups of prostitutes, so persistant that they were called Hooker's Company, shortened to Hookers.


Ulysees S. Grant was born Hiram Ulysees Grant. When he entered West Point, his initials were HUG...He took his mother's maiden name, Simpson, and made that his middle name.


Most of the northern soldiers wounded or killed during the battle of Fredericksburg during the american civil war were Irish immigrants from the penal colony of Tasmania inaustralia. This proved to be a tough life for the immigrants who were sailed to Australia as prisoners, served a sentence of up to 10 yrs, then immigrated to America and were drafted into the northern army out of new york city. Most met their end at the battle of fredericksburg.



Abner Doubleday, the inventor of baseball is also credited with firing the first Union shot of the Civil War.


The first torpedo boat was deployed in the Civil War by the Confederacy. The boat, named David, was equipped with a large mine and would said at top speed toward an enemy ship. Once close enough, the mine would be released and the boat would high tail it out of the explosion site. The first attack was by the David against the Union ironclad New Ironsides. The result of the attack was putting the New Ironsides in dry dock for one year.


The Union ironclad, Monitor, was the first U.S. ship to have a flush toilet.





By the end of the Civil War, between one-third and one-half of all U.S. paper currency in circulation was counterfeit.


The first submarine to sink a ship in combat was the Hunley in 1862. It sailed for the Confederate States of America (the south in the Civil War) and was made from an old steam engine boiler. It sank one of the ships blockading Charleston, SC harbor. Incidently, the Hunley *also* sank and is currently being raised by a historical group with the help of the U.S. Navy.
Amend, Discuss, Correct



Lincoln did not believe that whites and blacks could live together in peace. He had planned to relocate the entire black population of the United States to Central America.



Sickness accounted for a full one-third of all casualties in the Civil War. The 12th Connecticut Regiment entered the war with a compliment of 1,000 men. Before it entered its first engagement, sickness had reduced its strength to 600 able bodied soldiers.






There were more than 10,000 soldiers serving in the Union Army that were under the age of 18.



Union and Confederate forces stationed at Fredericksburg during the winter of 1862 traded items by constructing small boats and floating them back and forth across the Rappahannock river.



General Robert E. Lee, commander of the Confederate forces, traveled with a pet hen that laid one egg under his cot every morning.



Approximately 130,000 freed slaves became Union soldiers during the war.


The artillery barrage at the battle of Gettysburg during Pickett’s charge was heard over 100 miles away in Pittsburgh.




The famous Confederate blockade - runner, the C.S.S. Alabama, never entered a Confederate port during the length of her service.



The first civilian killed by the abolitionist John Brown and his cohorts at Harper’s Ferry was a free black man.



During the Civil war a person who had been drafted could hire a substitute. This bounty system was exploited by so called “bounty jumpers”. These men would hire out to more than one draftee and then make a hasty exit once they were paid. The record for bounty –jumping was held by John O’Connor. He admitted to hiring himself out 32 times before being caught. He received a 4 year prison term.



Black soldiers were paid $10 per month while serving in the Union army. This was $3 less than white soldiers.



Approximately 2,000 men served in the 26th North Carolina Regiment during the course of the Civil War. With Lee’s surrender at the Appomattox courthouse, there were only 131 men left to receive their paroles.


The "eye for an eye" order was given by Abraham Lincoln. Issued in 1863 during the Civil War that the Union would shoot a Confederate prisoner for every black Union prisoner shot, and would condemn a Confederate prisoner to hard labor for life for every black prisoner sold into sl*****. The order was meant to deter Confederates from murdering or enslaving captured black soldiers.


When a shell landed near the porch of his house during the first major battle of the Civil War, Wilmer McLean decided he'd had enough. So to get out of harm's way, he moved to Appomattox, where in his home four years later, Lee surrendered to Grant. Thus, Mclean could truly say, the Civil War began and ended at his home.


The first black recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor was Sergeant William Carney for his service during the Civil War. As the 54th Massachusetts heroically charged Fort Wagner, Carney noticed the Flag bearer was wounded . Dropping his rifle to the ground he grabbed the flag and charged up the hill, only to find himself standing alone atop the fortress wall. and the sole target for the Confederate soldiers. Although wounded in the chest , leg, and head, Carney made back to his regiment. After presenting the flag to his unit saying, "Boys, I have done my duty, the flag never touched the ground." , he collapsed from his wounds.



Robert Lincoln, the son of Abraham Lincoln, was waiting to board a crowded train when the train lurched forward and he fell between the platform and the body of the passenger car he was trying to board. But before harm came, he was seized by the collar and yanked to the platform. His rescuer was Edwin Booth, the brother of the man that would soon kill President Lincoln.

[Jolie Rouge]

WOW !

You have done some SERIOUS research....
My sister (Creole Queen) recieved her degree in history, her specialty being the Civil War, so most of what I know comes from college courses taken .... a "few" years ago .... and from discussions with her. I sent her a link to this thread, she will probably come by and add to it too ! :)

[mjh341]

A few more....

Did you know that during the Civil War, including the times before and after, it was legal and socially acceptable for a man to beat his wife, provided that the instrument used in the beating was no thicker that his thumb? Thus we get the term: Rule of thumb.

Did you know that in the Civil War, General Stonewall Jackson walked around with his right hand in the air to balance the blood flow in his body? Because he was right-handed, he thought that his right hand was getting more blood than his left, and so by raising his hand, he'd allow the excess blood to run into his left hand. He also never ate food that tasted good, because he assumed that anything that tasted good was completely unhealthy.

Did you know that during the Civil War, glasses with colored lenses were used to treat disorders and illness? Yellow-tinted glasses were used to treat syphilis, blue for insanity, and pink for depression. Thus we get the term, To see the world through rose-colored glasses. When you looked through them, supposedly, you became happy.

Did you know that in the centuries before and decades after the Civil War, including the war itself, doorways were wide, not because of the width of women's skirts, but so coffins could be passed through, with a pallbearer on either side?

Did you know that the average man's salary was between twelve to fifteen dollars a week, and the average man in the North, especially Massachusetts, was employed as a shoemaker? So much for the idyllic picture of rustic farming communities nestled high in the North.

Did you know that the average American in the 1860's could not afford to paint his house, and a painted house was a sign of affluence? In order to keep up appearances, they used cedar clapboards.

Did you know that when a woman mourned for her husband in the 1860's, she spent a minimum of two-and-a-half years in mourning? That meant little or no social activities: no parties, no outings, no visitors, and a wardrobe that consisted of nothing but black. The husband, when mourning for his wife, however, spent three months in a black suit.

Did you know that during the Battle of Gettysburg, pennsylvania, the only civilian to die was twenty-year-old Mary Virginia "Jennie" Wade, who was shot through the heart while making bread? What a way to go.

Did you know that not all battles of the Civil War were fought in the South? The Confederates actually managed to sneak all the way up to Vermont to fight, via Canada.

Did you know that germs were unheard of during the Civil War, and men would drink out of water that thirty yards upstream, a man relieved himself in? Surgeons never washed their hands after an operation, because all blood was assumed to be the same, nor did he wash his instruments.

Did you know that during the Victorian era, the dead were either laid out in their parlors, or, as the Southerners preferred, in their bedrooms? There were no such things as funeral homes; death was a part of life, and the dead remained in the house up until they were buried. The tradition of flowers around the coffin comes from the Victorians trying to hide the scent of rotting flesh.

Did you know that when a child died in the Victorian era, its parents would have a photograph taken of it? They wanted to preserve its memory for as long as possible. A lot of pictures of sleeping children are actually of dead children. Parents would also pose with their deceased little ones in one last family picture.

Did you know that after the Battle of Gettysburg. the discarded rifles were collected and sent to Washington to be inspected and reissued? Of the 37,574 rifles recovered, 24,000were still loaded; 6,000 had one round in the barrel; 12,000 had two rounds in the barrel; 6,000 had three to ten rounds in the barrel. Onr rifle, the most remarkable of all, had been stuffed to the top with twenty-three rounds in the barrel.

Did you know that during the Civil War, muzelloading rifles were preferred over the faster firing breachloaders? The breachloading rifle was invented in 1803 and had been issued by the army in 1825. They were discontinued and all government research stopped in 1840, however, because it was thought that the soldiers would waste ammunition.

And did you know that, today, one of the most popular questions park rangers get when giving tours around Civil War battlefields is: "Did the soldiers have to fight around all these monuments?" One could only smile and say yes: They knew right where to die.

Name the only woman ever given a regular commission (captain) in the Confederate forces.

The woman in question was SALLY LOUISA TOMPKINS. Tompkins was born into a wealthy family on 9 November 1833 at "Poplar Grove" in Mathews County, Virginia. Following her father's death, Tompkins moved with her family to Richmond where she was living at the outbreak of the civil war. After First Manassas the Confederate government asked the public to help care for the wounded. Tompkins responded by establishing Robertson Hospital in a house at the corner of Third and Main Streets in Richmond. The house was donated by Judge John Robertson of the Circuit Court of Richmond and Henrico County. The hospital, equipped and subsidized largely with Tompkin's inheritance, opened on 1 August 1861. A few weeks later the Confederate Congress passed legislation putting all military hospitals under the control of the Confederate Medical Department. Tompkins used her high rate of success to convince President Jefferson Davis to allow her hospital to stay open although many other were ordered shut. Regulations required that all military hospitals be run by military personnel. To circumvent the regulation Davis appointed Tompkins captain of cavalry, unassigned, on 9 September 1861, making her the only woman to hold a commission in the Confederate States Army. The woman that her patients called "the little lady with the milk-white hands" became affectionately known as "Captain Sally." The military rank allowed Tompkins to draw government rations, medical supplies, and a salary which was used to help defray operating costs. Until it discharged its last patients on 13 June 1865, two months after Union forces occupied the Confederate capital, Robertson Hospital had treated 1,333 Confederate soldiers with only 73 recorded deaths, a 94.5 percent survival rate. Tompkins was a beloved celebrity in postwar Richmond. She was active in the Episcopal church and a popular guest at veterans' reunions and United Daughter of the Confederacy meetings. By 1905 she had exhausted her fortune, giving most of it away to veteran causes, and moved into the Confederate Women's Home in Richmond. She died at the home on 26 July 1916. "Captain Sally," an honorary member of the R.E. Lee Camp of the Confederate Veterans, was buried with full military honors.


The Confederate general in question was WILLIAM "EXTRA BILLY" SMITH. Smith was born 6 September 1797 in Marengo, King George County, Virginia. He attended private schools in Virginia then the Plainfield Academy in Connecticut. He studied law then passed the bar in 1818, setting up a law practice in Culpepper, Virginia. In 1831 he established a US mail passenger coach service which operated through Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia running between WASHINGTON DC and MILLEDGEVILLE, GEORGIA. Smith was given the nickname "Extra Billy" because as the mail service business grew he demanded and got extra payment from the US Post Office Department. Turning to politics, in 1836 Smith was elected to the Virginia state Senate and served five terms until resigning in 1841 to run for the US Congress. He contested the results of the 1841 13th District Congressional election and replaced Linn Banks as the 13th's representative on 6 December 1841. Smith failed in his bid for a second term. He moved to Fauquier County. He was elected governor of Virginia in 1845 and served until 1849. While serving as governor he was an unsuccessful candidate for the US Senate. Following his term as governor Smith moved to California. Although asked to run for state office in California, Smith refused because he would not give up his Virginia residency. He did serve as president of the first Democratic State Convention in 1850. Smith returned to Virginia in December of 1852 and was again elected to the US House of Representatives. This time from the 7th District. He would be re-elected to three more terms serving from 4 March 1853 until 3 March 1861. Although he was 63 years old when the civil war began Smith was commissioned a colonel in the 49th Virginia infantry. He fought at First Manassas. He was elected to the Confederate House of Representatives in the fall of 1861 and tended to his political duties when his military duties permitted. He fought at Seven Pines and at Sharpsburg where he was wounded three times. After taking several months to recover, he returned to active duty and was promoted to brigadier general on 31 January 1863. He was again elected governor of Virginia in May 1863 but chose to remain with the army commanding Smith's Brigade/ Early's Division/ Ewell's Corps at Gettysburg. Smith was promoted to major general on 12 August 1863 and remained with the army until taking office as governor in January 1864. When the war ended the Federal government put a price on Smith's head, but once he
surrendered he was soon paroled. He returned to his estate, "Monterosa", near Warrenton, in June 1865 and took up farming. He returned to politics as a member of the Virginia State House of Delegates in 1877 and ran, again unsuccessfully, for the US Senate in 1878. Smith retired to his estate where he died on 18 May 1887 at the age of 91.


Abraham Lincoln had 3 brothers in laws who were Generals in the Confederacy.

[Creole_Queen]

Sorry I've been off line for a while.

There is a book entitled Strange and Interesting Facts of the Civil War. It's really neat and list many of the facts already mentioned in the thread. Did you know that most of the names derived for the Civil War were thought up by southerners trying to make it not sound so bad.

As far as the racial question is concerned, there are many cases where Blacks owned Blacks. There is an area in Louisiana called Cane River. A historian tells the story of a family in the area who owned slaves. This family was what we in Louisiana call Creole. At the point in time you could be as little as 1/64th black and still be considered full blood black. The book is real interesting, it is called The Cane River Creoles. It was required reading in my Louisiana History Class at SLU. The fact is slaves were considered property and very seldom mistreated in the south. They were very often the only property owned by some. They were also considered members of the family.

Hope these books will help.

[Jolie Rouge]

bump