Evolutionists want book removed("too religious") - Big Big Forums

Merry99% · 01-16-2004, 01:41 AM

Legal Group: Park Service May Face Litigation If Creationist Book Moved

By Jody Brown
January 15, 2004

(AgapePress) - Controversy over a book about a flood has generated another type of deluge -- thousands of e-mails to the National Park Service.

The book Grand Canyon: A Different View is a compilation of breathtaking views of the Canyon and essays written by scientists from the fields of geology, paleontology, biochemistry, physics, and geophysics and by theologians who hold to the "young earth" view of the origins of the universe. Part of that view, held by creation scientists and a growing number of secular geologists, maintains that the Grand Canyon was formed by a lot of water over a few thousand years -- not by the slow erosion of the Colorado River over millions of years.

The book, compiled by Tom Vail -- a veteran tour guide of the Canyon -- was drawn into controversy recently when a group of prominent evolutionists called for it to be removed from the park's bookstores because they considered it too "religious." Now, according to reports from Associated Press, the book will likely remain on sale in Canyon bookstores -- but will probably be stocked in the "cultural" or "inspirational" section instead of the "science" section, where it had been located. Park Service spokesman David Barna tells AP that would be a "reasonable" solution.

"That's probably where we're going to end up," Barna says. "I don't expect to see the Park Service banning any books any time soon. Our bookstores are of limited size, so we don't offer and carry everything, but certainly this is a book that people are interested in -- and we respect that."

But in a letter to the Department of the Interior last week, the Arizona-based Alliance Defense Fund -- which is representing Vail in the threatened censorship -- said such a remedy would be unconstitutional. ADF stated that "to either relocate Mr. Vail?s book to a different section in the Canyon bookstores or remove it altogether ... would lead to a patent violation of the United States Constitution."

The legal group explains that just because the contributors' views are informed by both theology and science, it does not diminish the constitutional protection to which they are entitled. "The opinions expressed in this book cannot be dismissed simply as the fanciful bemusing of amateur scientists presenting novel theories," ADF says. "On the contrary, the contributors are well-trained scientists presenting a legitimate, albeit minority, scientific theory."

And while those writers' views are obviously rejected by those scientists calling for the book's removal, "difference of opinion among scientists ... is grossly insufficient justification to censor the book and would expose the [National Park Service] to almost certain legal liability," the legal group says.

According to Barna, the Park Service has received "several thousand" e-mails about the controversy. He says about half of those messages are from people "who support the beliefs of the book." The other half, he says, oppose the book's presence in the park because they consider it "pseudo-science" or because it is a "religious book."

"Part of the controversy is that this book purports to be a scientific text," Barna says. "We don't have to treat it that way because its conclusions and the premise it's based on has been determined by the Supreme Court that that is not science. It is a point of view, it is a belief, and we respect that -- and we can offer those books for sale."

But the NPS spokesman says strict church-state separationists want all religion purged from the national parks. He says that is not possible. "Like it or not, religion has played a big part in the formation of American history," he says, "and our job in the Park Service is not just these natural resource sites [like the Grand Canyon] -- it's also [about] 200 cultural sites nationwide."

The controversy does not seem to have discouraged sales of the book. According to ADF, the Park Service contacted Vail on Tuesday -- to order 64 more copies of the book.

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curlymae29 · 01-17-2004, 11:14 PM

Fine...then remove ALL the books! Don't sell any. All theories are based on religious or lack of religious notions of some sort. Just because it has some religious religious principles it can't be science. Well there goes most of the science!

This is just plain ole hogwash!

jdglmg · 01-18-2004, 03:32 AM

Separation of church and state as it is touted nowadays is so completely against what our forefathers intended! They intended for it to protect the church from government interference - not to keep God and Christian influence out of our govenment! You can look at the documents that were written - Declaration of Independence and the Federalist papers among others - to see how much the founders were influenced by their faith! I often wonder if the founders of our nation could see it today if they would even bother!

curlymae29 · 01-22-2004, 08:44 AM

I think they would be shocked to say the least. I would imagine they would be hurt to see their word twisted.

Technologist · 01-22-2004, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jdglmg
Separation of church and state as it is touted nowadays is so completely against what our forefathers intended! They intended for it to protect the church from government interference - not to keep God and Christian influence out of our govenment! You can look at the documents that were written - Declaration of Independence and the Federalist papers among others - to see how much the founders were influenced by their faith! I often wonder if the founders of our nation could see it today if they would even bother!

Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of Independence was signed. These founding fathers were a reflection of the American population.

They intended to keep the church from influencing the government... and vice versa.

curlymae29 · 01-22-2004, 11:34 AM

Against a prevailing view that eighteenth-century Americans had not perpetuated the first settlers' passionate commitment to their faith, scholars now identify a high level of religious energy in colonies after 1700. According to one expert, religion was in the "ascension rather than the declension"; another sees a "rising vitality in religious life" from 1700 onward; a third finds religion in many parts of the colonies in a state of "feverish growth." Figures on church attendance and church formation support these opinions. Between 1700 and 1740, an estimated 75 to 80 percent of the population attended churches, which were being built at a headlong pace.

http://lcweb.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel02.html