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  1. #1
    buttrfli's Avatar
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    Why are they in school??

    Why do school districts let kids who speak NO english at all go to school? Do they think that its helping them or the other students in their class?

    Let me say that I do not have a solution for any of this, but I know first hand how frustrating it is to try to talk to a student who does not speak or understand english.

    At our school the non-english speaking students are paired up with bilingual "buddies" in their class. Thats fine and dandy, but the students who are translating aren't exactly quiet when the teacher is speaking and I can see how some kids are distracted by this in class. Its a lot of responsibility for the bilingual students who not only have to be responsible for themselves, they are now responsible for the non-english speaking student.

    I heard a boy calling some of the girls "Punta" today - so I called his name and I should have been able to tell him to go to the office, but I had to wait for someone to come to class to translate for me. That took 10 minutes. I can only imagine what the teachers have to wait on.

    If they are going to let non-english speaking kids go to school, doesn't it seem practical to teach these kids english while they are in school?? This student in particular is in his 3rd year at this school and while I am sure he understands more than he lets on, no effort is being made to teach him english and I don't understand why. We have about 23 students who do not speak english at our school. I see the kids for 2 hours a day and if I find the communication barrier difficult, I can only imagine how the teachers and other staff feels. What harm would it do to send the kids to an ESL class for 30 minutes a day instead of sending them to choir or art.

    Although our non-english speaking students speak spanish, whats going to happen when a student who only speaks Russian or German comes to school, what then?

    I have my own views and opinions about them being there in the first place however, they are here and they are going to continue to be here... so help them learn english so they can learn on their own!
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  3. #2

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    Nicely said and I agree!!

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    I also agree and if I read between the lines correctly I agree there also.

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    Children with a speech impediment go to speech class as another example.

    Other children, who do not speak English could go to English as a 2nd language class during art, music, recess, or studyhall/resource time.

    JMI too.

    My family's great grandparents came over on the boat from Sweden and they had to learn English.
    Swedish was spoken at home....even when my mother was a girl
    and English was spoken everywhere else.

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    Back around 1989, my nephew from Venezuela came to live with us. We registered him in school and he did not speak a word of English. Within 6 months he could speak fluently and he was a young teenager. Younger children tend to pick up a new language faster even when their native tongue is spoken at home. Back in my younger days I worked in a restaraunt that was owned by Greeks. Their children did not speak English until they started school and picked it up with no problem.

    My point here is that I do not understand why the foreign speaking children are not picking the language up with more ease. Back in the day it was either learn the language or flunk. Now days they have all these programs set up to "teach" these kids and obviously in a lot of cases it is not working. Do you think maybe the "sink or swim" method might have worked a tad better than holding their hands? Also, if they have someone there in the school to translate for them...why do they need to learn the language?
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    Re: Why are they in school??

    The status of bilingual education in America Bilingual education, state-by state policy review
    Over three million students in America have limited English proficiency (LEP). Although state and local governments pay for most education funding, the federal government contributes over $650 million for students with LEP. The 107th Congress (2001-2002) voted to quadruple that amount over the next several years. Although the law has been changed to allow funds to go to other programs, the bulk of that funding goes exclusively to bilingual education programs.

    State initiatives banning bilingual education
    15 states account for 94% of students who speak languages other than English in their home. Bilingual education has recently been ended in states which account for more than one-half of these students: California (1998), Arizona (2000), and Massachusetts (2002).

    Massachusetts's voters approve measure ending bilingual ed., 68%-32%
    In November 2002, more than 2/3rds of Massachusetts' voters voted for Question #2, a ballot initiative which replaces bilingual education with proven English-immersion teaching techniques. ProEnglish supported the initiative's passing. Immigrants Rosalie Porter, a former director of bilingual programs, and Lincoln Tamayo, a Chelsea high school principle, led the statewide campaign. The initiative was one of the few issues separating gubernatorial candidates in the 2002 election. Republican Mitt Romney campaigned in support of the issue, and won a surprising victory.

    Nearly 30,000 Massachusetts school children were taught in bilingual education classrooms each year. Under the new law, these children will receive a year of intensive English instruction, and then be placed in more traditional, English-language classes.

    Arizona, home to 7% of America's PHLOTE students (200,000) banned bilingual education in this past election season (year 2000). A 2000 study by the Superintendent of Public Schools showed bilingual education was a failure, resulting in few students being mainstreamed each year. Seeing the success of California, 63% of Arizona voters chose to replace bilingual education and ESL with English immersion by passing Proposition 203.

    California is home to 41% (1 1/4 million) of all students with a Primary Home Language Other Than English (PHLOTE). Before 1998, California had mandated bilingual education for all of its students. Disgusted at the failure of bilingual education, software millionaire Ron Unz and 62% of California's voters supported Proposition 227, titled, "English for the Children." This mandated English immersion programs, although parents do have several grounds for receiving waivers, allowing their students to be enrolled in bilingual education programs. Since passing Proposition 227, reading, writing and math scores for California's students with Limited English Proficiency (LEP) have soared. Colorado retains Bilingual Education, 46%-54%.

    In November 2002, Colorado became the first state to vote down an initiative to end bilingual education. Most of the state's prominent politicians and newspapers argued that they were opposed to bilingual education, but campaigned against "Amendment 31," as the reform initiative was called. The initiative was defeated in large part by a campaign of scare tactics and distortions, funded by an extraodinary $3 million campaign contribution from a local heiress.

    The campaign alleged that the reform would result in schoolteachers being sued, the state having to raise taxes, and, darkly, that mainstream classes would be flooded with immigrant children. This was said in spite of the fact that no teacher has been sued in California or Arizona, where the reform has already been passed, and English immersion is likely to be less expensive than bilingual education.

    Colorado has 22,000 students who have a primary home language other than English.
    Other states with significant numbers of students in bilingual education

    Texas is home to 15% (450,000) of America's PHLOTE students. Texan law mandates bilingual education for all LEP students. As in Arizona and California, most elected politicians favor bilingual education. Unlike Arizona and California, however, there is no law allowing ballot initiatives.

    New York, also home to 7% of America's PHLOTE students, (210,000) allows bilingual education or ESL, but in New York City students have been placed in bilingual education by default. The New York City Board of Education conducted a longitudinal study to track the success of the state's English-Language learners. The study showed that bilingual education students took far longer to be mainstreamed into English-language classrooms, often were not ever successfully mainstreamed, and performed poorly on achievement tests. Further, students who were not mainstreamed were showed to be far more likely to drop out.

    This study has prompted calls for reform. For now, a compromise has been passed allowing for improved parental choice.

    New York state does not allow ballot initiatives, and consent decrees may complicate reform efforts by elected officials. Neighbor Connecticut's legislature banned bilingual education in 2000 for its 20,000 PHLOTE students. New Jersey (with 50,000 PHLOTE students) now mandates bilingual education for all its LEP students. There is no referendum process in New Jersey, or Connecticut.

    Florida, home to 5% (150,000) of America's PHLOTE students, allows bilingual education and ESL, but state regulations and funding heavily favor bilingual education. (The state spent $373 million in 1997.) A bilingual teacher must be present in all classes. The state allows ballot initiatives.

    Illinois, with 110,000 PHLOTE students (3.5% of the U.S. total) and Washington, with 50,000 PHLOTE students, mandate bilingual education, and also have a ballot initiative process.

    New Mexico mandates bilingual education for its 80,000 PHLOTE students. There is a ballot initiative law, but its courts have been known for judicial activism, and could conceivably rule that bilingual education is protected by the state constitution, which states that New Mexico is officially bilingual

    Michigan's mandate for bilingual education was removed when it was ruled to be an unfunded mandate; the state would either have to fund the bilingual education program 100%, or drop the mandate. Nevertheless, loopholes have allowed the state to keep bilingual education the predominant program of LEP education for its 45,000 PHLOTE students. Michigan does have a ballot initiative program.

    Oklahoma 's voters were frustrated as they were seeking a ballot initiative to make English the state's official language. Gov. Keating, an outspoken opponent of the initiative, failed to submit the proposal by the state's mandated deadline for referenda. Oklahoma has more than 30,000 PHLOTE students. Bilingual education is mandated, but could be overturned by a ballot initiative.

    Nevada has nearly 25,000 PHLOTE students. Bilingual education is not mandated, but is common. The state does allow ballot initiatives. Alaska mandates bilingual and bicultural education. The state has 30,000 PHLOTE students, but most of these are Aleuts and American Indians. A ballot initiative established English as Alaska's official language, and, outside of classrooms, the initiative is being strongly enforced

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    What do you mean "at all" ???? What would they do instead..stay home? They go to school to LEARN so that they can have JOBS in the future... BUT I do have to agree, that they should go to ESL classes... I had never heard of other kids having to translate for them... that is just not right! If they don't go to school, and learn to speak English , then people would complain that they come here and that they don't even TRY to learn English...
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    Re: Why are they in school??

    I have never believed in bilingual education. It sets these kids up for failure, it also ensures that they have no reason to learn the language. As a kid in elementary school when the vietnamese people came over, there were no bilingual courses. They were immersed and very quickly picked up the language, of course, they had parents at home who demanded they learn the language of their adopted country. There was no demand for entitlement and for everything to be printed/spoken/taught in their language of origin. They kept and observed their customs and language at home, and strove to assimilate into the US way of life.
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    buttrfli's Avatar
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    Re: Why are they in school??

    Quote Originally Posted by babystar0729 View Post
    What do you mean "at all" ????
    ummm I mean they speak ZERO english... didn't know how to make that any more clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by babystar0729
    What would they do instead..stay home? They go to school to LEARN so that they can have JOBS in the future...
    Didn't you read my post??
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    Re: Why are they in school??

    I was going to bypass this thread but i'm going to insert my 2 cents.

    I for one think that if we are required to take a language in school that these non english speaking students should be required to learn english. They are in America , where we speak English. I dont think that the Teachers should have to learn languages to speak to the students, the students should be required to be able to speak our language as a requirement.

    I grew up in New Mexico, if you were not bilingual forget getting a job. Its crazy to me. Needless to say, I moved to Alabama simply to get away from that crap. Now , I make a call, you know one of those that puts you through all the press 1 for this press 2 for that and they ask if you want english or spanish.....Bull Crap

    I could go on and on all day but I wont because I know i'm gonna already get the imfamous flame..so let me have it

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    Re: Why are they in school??

    Quote Originally Posted by galeane29 View Post
    I was going to bypass this thread but i'm going to insert my 2 cents.

    I for one think that if we are required to take a language in school that these non english speaking students should be required to learn english. They are in America , where we speak English. I dont think that the Teachers should have to learn languages to speak to the students, the students should be required to be able to speak our language as a requirement.

    I grew up in New Mexico, if you were not bilingual forget getting a job. Its crazy to me. Needless to say, I moved to Alabama simply to get away from that crap. Now , I make a call, you know one of those that puts you through all the press 1 for this press 2 for that and they ask if you want english or spanish.....Bull Crap

    I could go on and on all day but I wont because I know i'm gonna already get the imfamous flame..so let me have it
    I agree with you!

    And Butterfli, I agree with you about sending these children to ESL classes instead of Art or Choir.

    I couldn't imagine going to another country and just being thrown into a situation where I can't speak the language and have to live it every day. It's hard for the teachers and the students, both English and Non-English speaking.
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