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Old 08-19-2009, 11:45 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jasmine View Post
http://news.aol.com/article/school-o...e-for%2F626406

Educators May Face Jail Time for PrayerCNN
posted: 10 HOURS 5 MINUTES AGOcomments: 72filed under: National NewsPRINT|E-MAILMOREText SizeAAA

(Aug. 17) - Two Florida school administrators face contempt charges and possible prison time for saying a prayer at a school luncheon.
Frank Lay, principal of Pace High School, and Athletic Director Robert Freeman are accused of violating a consent decree banning employees of Santa Rosa County schools from endorsing religion.

They face a non-jury trial September 17 before U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers. The statute under which they are charged carries a maximum penalty of up to six months in prison, subject to sentencing guidelines.


Attorneys defending Lay and Freeman call it outrageous that the two are being prosecuted for "a simple prayer." But the American Civil Liberties Union, whose lawsuit led to the consent decree, maintains that students have a right to be free from administrators foisting their religious beliefs on them.
Still, an ACLU representative said the organization never suggested that people should go to jail for violating the decree.

The ACLU filed suit last year against the district on behalf of two Pace students who alleged that "school officials regularly promoted religion and led prayers at school events," according to an ACLU statement.

Both parties approved the consent decree put in place January 9, under which district and school officials are "permanently prohibited from promoting, advancing, endorsing, participating in or causing prayers during or in conjunction with school events," the ACLU said.

Lay was a party in the initial lawsuit, and his attorney was among those approving the consent decree, according to the organization. In addition, the court required that all district employees receive a copy.

On January 28, "Lay asked Freeman to offer a prayer of blessing during a school-day luncheon for the dedication of a new fieldhouse at Pace High School," according to court documents. "Freeman complied with the request and offered the prayer at the event. It appears this was a school-sponsored event attended by students, faculty and community members."

Attorneys from Liberty Counsel, a conservative legal group helping defend Lay and Freeman, said in a written statement that attendees included booster club members and other adults who helped the field house project, all "consenting adults."

In a February 4 letter to district Superintendent Tim Wyrosdick in which Lay acknowledged the incident, he said that although past football booster club members "and other adults associated with the school system" were at the luncheon, culinary class students were in charge of food preparation and serving.

Lay wrote that he asked Freeman to bless the food "for the adults. ... I take full responsibility for this action. My actions were overt and not meant to circumvent any court order or constitutional mandate."

In response, Wyrosdick noted in a letter to Lay that in a meeting, the principal had admitted that "you are, and were at the date of this incident, aware of the court injunction and aware that this type of action is not permissible under the injunction."

More StoriesWyrosdick recounted telling Lay that the prayer was not appropriate.

"This note is to share with you written instructions to avoid this type of action," the superintendent said. Both letters are in the public court file.

"It is a sad day in America when school officials are criminally prosecuted for a prayer over a meal," said Mathew Staver, founder of Liberty Counsel and dean of the law school at Liberty University, founded by the late Rev. Jerry Falwell. "It is outrageous and an offense to the First Amendment to punish a school official for a simple prayer."

Liberty Counsel said it is challenging the consent decree, maintaining that it "unconstitutionally infringes on the rights of teachers, administrators and students."

The ACLU, according to the Liberty Counsel statement, has begun "to go against individual employees." The organization said that neither man "willfully violated any orders of the court."

"We're not going after individuals," said Glenn Katon, director of the Religious Freedom Project for the ACLU of Florida. "We're just trying to make sure that school employees comply with the court order."

The ACLU did not request the criminal contempt charges against Lay and Freeman, he said; the judge initiated them after seeing a reference to the incident in a motion. And the ACLU is not involved in the criminal proceedings, he said.

"We certainly never suggested that anyone go to jail," Katon said.
Lay is not facing jail time for praying, he said, but for violating a court order.
"The moral of this story is, for us, this is about the students' right to be free from teachers and school administrators thrusting upon the students their religious beliefs," Katon said. "They keep talking about the religious rights of the administrators, but the administrators and the principals don't have any right to trumpet their religious beliefs in a school setting."

Neither Lay nor Freeman has been placed on leave, according to the school district.
Pace is about 10 miles north of Pensacola, Florida.
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I really don't understand, back in my day, they had a prayer before the sports games, to protect and keep the players safe.... no-one objected, they just bowed their heads in respect, and said "amen". More like a "ritual" thing before the games, you knew their was going to be a prayer, no biggie.
Well obviously they both knew it was against the rules/law and they choose to break the rules/law. Its called consequences. They could have said their prayers at home, in the car, in their mind, etc...they chose to pray during this function now they have to pay. Its real simple. People are always complaining when someone breaks a law and they aren't punished. Then they complain when someone is punished because they don't like the law??? You can't have it both ways.
I imagine if an Islamic prayer (or any other type prayer besides a Christian prayer) was prayed at this school function, there sure would be a whole lot of hell raised over it. People would be in an uproar, and rightfully so because there is to be no relgious promoting, NONE! Its pretty much black and white. I

I think putting them in prision is a bit over the top. Maybe suspension and a write up in their personal file would be more fair?
I am a Christian, I believe in prayer and the power of prayer. But I also believe religion of any kind should be taught at home and in church. Schools are not where I want my child to learn about religion. It is my job as the parent to teach them about religion, not the schools.
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Old 08-20-2009, 12:00 AM   #13 (permalink)
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....banning employees of Santa Rosa County schools from endorsing religion.
Anyone else catch the irony of this happening in the Santa Rosa County.?...aka/translated to: "Saint Rose County"
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Old 09-18-2009, 07:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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http://news.aol.com/article/florida-...to-jail/676619

Judge Clears Educators in Prayer CaseCNN

(Sept. 18) -- A judge has ruled in favor of two Florida school administrators who faced contempt charges for saying a prayer at a school luncheon, according to a group that helped represent them.

U.S. District Judge M.C. Rodgers ruled Thursday in favor of Frank Lay, principal of Pace High School in Pace, Florida, and school athletic director Robert Freeman, the Liberty Counsel said.

Lay and Freeman could have faced up to six months in prison and fines if convicted. They were accused of violating a consent decree banning county school employees from initiating prayers during school events.

Ahead of the court proceedings, hundreds of supporters lined the streets outside the federal courthouse in Pensacola, Florida. Many of them carried signs and some sang songs.
"It is ridiculous that these men even had to think twice about blessing a meal," Liberty Counsel founder Matthew Staver said in a written statement.

"To criminalize the prayer conflicts with our nation's founding and guiding principles and goes directly against our constitutionally protected rights."

But the American Civil Liberties Union, whose lawsuit led to the consent decree, has maintained students have a right to be free from administrators who foist their personal religious beliefs on them.
More StoriesStill, an ACLU representative has said the organization "never suggested" people should go to jail for violating the decree, and the organization was not involved in the criminal proceedings.

The ACLU filed suit last year against the district on behalf of two Pace students who alleged that "school officials regularly promoted religion and led prayers at school events," according to an ACLU statement.

Lay was a party in the initial lawsuit, and his attorney was among those approving the consent decree, according to the organization. In addition, the court required that all district employees receive a copy.
But on January 28, "Lay asked Freeman to offer a prayer of blessing during a school-day luncheon for the dedication of a new field house at Pace High School," according to court documents.

"Freeman complied with the request and offered the prayer at the event. It appears this was a school-sponsored event attended by students, faculty and community members."
Attorneys from Liberty Counsel have said that attendees included booster club members and other adults who helped the field house project -- all "consenting adults."

The case caught the attention of members of the Congressional Prayer Caucus, including the caucus' founder, Rep. J. Randy Forbes, R-Virginia.

He and two other lawmakers, Rep. Mike McIntyre, D-North Carolina, and Rep. Jeff Miller, R-Florida, also members of the caucus, wrote a letter in support of the two school administrators, saying that "many of America's Founding Fathers were resolute in their faiths, and the impact of such is evident in the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and many of their writings."

It added, "The tradition of offering prayer in America has become so interwoven into our nation's spiritual heritage that to charge someone criminally for engaging in such a practice would astonish the men who founded this country on religious liberty."
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:09 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hesnothere View Post
I think the world would be a better place if there weren't all these radicals that are pro-religion.

The law is the law.
The law is the law. We can't pick and choose which we will obey and won't obey.
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Old 09-22-2009, 05:19 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm glad they won the case.
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Old 09-22-2009, 07:42 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm also glad they were cleared. I just hope they learned their lesson from all of this.
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Old 09-22-2009, 10:47 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by iluvmybaby View Post
The law is the law. We can't pick and choose which we will obey and won't obey.

The same goes for the Bible
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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