The ACLU Has Found a Religion It *Will* Defend - Big Big Forums

Jolie Rouge · 06-18-2007, 07:24 PM

The ACLU says it has nothing to do with religion.

The American Civil Liberties Union has given their blessing to the public funding of Islamic footbaths at the University of Michigan, to let Muslims wash their feet before prayers.

This pleases CAIR greatly, because now the Islamic community won’t have to pay for them. And also because it’s another small step toward shari’a.

Notice how the Detroit News continues to quote CAIR representatives without mentioning that the group has been named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Hamas funding trial of the Holy Land Foundation.

Quote:

Muslims won't fund footbaths
Leaders cite ACLU's decision not to oppose use of public money for UM-Dearborn project.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...06180361&imw=Y

DEARBORN — Muslim leaders in Metro Detroit have decided not to raise private money to pay for two footbaths at a local college campus now that the American Civil Liberties Union has said the plan doesn’t pose constitutional problems.

The University of Michigan-Dearborn’s plan to spend $25,000 on the footbaths was criticized on conservative blogs and radio shows this month. Critics said using public money for the project would violate the First Amendment, which says governments can’t favor or subsidize religions.

Muslims are required to wash body parts, including feet, up to five times daily before prayers. University officials say the floor-level wash basins are needed because some students at the 8,600-student campus wash their feet in the sinks.

Dawud Walid, executive director of the Michigan chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), said his group was concerned a public outcry would cause the university to back down from the project. “If the ACLU had decided to take legal action against the UM-Dearborn, we probably would have called for the university to raise the funds privately, just so that the UM-Dearborn wouldn’t have to go through the trouble of having to defend its position against the ACLU,” Walid said.

Kary Moss, director of the Detroit branch of the ACLU, said its review concluded the plan is a “reasonable accommodation” to resolve “safety and cleanliness issues” that arose when Muslims used public sinks for foot cleaning before prayers, which often spilled water on bathroom floors. “We view it as an attempt to deal with a problem, not an attempt to make it easier for Muslims to pray,” said Moss, who likened the plan to paying for added police during religious events with huge turnouts. “There’s no intent to promote religion.”

I wonder if the ACLU will fund a fountain for baptisms ? Or a Holy Water Font for the Catholics to bless themselves before meals ( or tests ) ?

queenangie · 06-18-2007, 07:45 PM

The Muslim footwashing seems to be a religious activity to me.

The ACLU will never do anything for Christians.

cSoReNSoN · 06-18-2007, 07:56 PM

The University of Michigan-Dearborn is my alma mater, so I have personal insight into this matter. As stated by the ACLU, the University is not endorsing any religion as the footbaths are open to all students to use. No praying occurs during the footwashing, hence it is not a religious activity anyways. I personally never witnessed any students washing feet in the sinks, but agree a footbath is a much better option for health and safety reasons. There is already a nice fountain on campus, so if Catholics would like to bless themselves before a meal or test they are more than welcome to do so. The footbaths will not have any religious scripture on them, so one is not endorsing any sort of religion. Now had the footbaths been designated for only Muslim students or contained religious scripture upon them, then it would be endorsing religion; which is obviously not the case here.

Johnsmom · 06-18-2007, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cSoReNSoN

The University of Michigan-Dearborn is my alma mater, so I have personal insight into this matter. As stated by the ACLU, the University is not endorsing any religion as the footbaths are open to all students to use. No praying occurs during the footwashing, hence it is not a religious activity anyways. I personally never witnessed any students washing feet in the sinks, but agree a footbath is a much better option for health and safety reasons. There is already a nice fountain on campus, so if Catholics would like to bless themselves before a meal or test they are more than welcome to do so. The footbaths will not have any religious scripture on them, so one is not endorsing any sort of religion. Now had the footbaths been designated for only Muslim students or contained religious scripture upon them, then it would be endorsing religion; which is obviously not the case here.

Are the fountains full of Holy Water? Catholics don't go around blessing themselves with water from fountains. I'm also curious as to who else would actually use these footbaths.

cSoReNSoN · 06-18-2007, 09:35 PM

Anybody that would like to use the footbaths may do so. Well, a fountain of "holy water" would be promoting a religion, so that would not be allowed. I am not Catholic, so I wasn't aware it had to be "holy water". The footbaths are simply water from the public water system, therefore not water of a religious affliation. The water in the footbaths will not be blessed by any religious figure, so a Catholic or atheist need not feel offended if utilizing the footbath. It doesn't matter if non-Muslims choose not to use the footbath. What matters is non-Muslims are given the option to use the footbath. If one doesn't want to use the footbath, one is not obliged to do so. It's a rather simple notion. As an alumnus, I support the diversity that is present on campus.

Johnsmom · 06-18-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cSoReNSoN

Anybody that would like to use the footbaths may do so. Well, a fountain of "holy water" would be promoting a religion, so that would not be allowed. I am not Catholic, so I wasn't aware it had to be "holy water". The footbaths are simply water from the public water system, therefore not water of a religious affliation. The water in the footbaths will not be blessed by any religious figure, so a Catholic or atheist need not feel offended if utilizing the footbath. It doesn't matter if non-Muslims choose not to use the footbath. What matters is non-Muslims are given the option to use the footbath. If one doesn't want to use the footbath, one is not obliged to do so. It's a rather simple notion. As an alumnus, I support the diversity that is present on campus.

Yes, I understand that it's a "simple notion" but I really think it's more of a technicality. I don't think others will use the footbath and it is primarily there for muslims. The main point I wanted to make is that fountains aren't of use for Catholic religious practice. I am not offended by the presence of any religion in a public place so long as goverment money doesn't pay for it. I think this is exactly that, but since others can "technically" use the footbaths, it's allowed. I think they need to put kneelers on campus that "anyone" can use.

queenangie · 06-18-2007, 10:55 PM

I saw footbaths at Niagara Falls on vacation. The only ones using them were Muslims.

Jolie Rouge · 06-19-2007, 12:27 AM

The ACLU mandates a separation of church and state. Ritual footbaths are a religious symbol.

How long before the CAIR starts agitating to make the foot-bath-equipped restrooms "muslim-only", because of defilement ( meaning kuffir have used any part of them... ) ?

The ACLU (and other extremists) invariably downplay the role of personal responsibility.

Quote:

...a “reasonable accommodation” to resolve “safety and cleanliness issues” that arose when Muslims used public sinks for foot cleaning before prayers, which often spilled water on bathroom floors.

“We view it as an attempt to deal with a problem,...

It seems the problem here is a group of people who aren't willing to clean up after themselves. " Hey! You got water all over the floor! Why don't you clean that up?!? "

No, let's use tax dollars to keep them from making a mess in the first place.

I'm sick of people screaming, "My Rights! My Rights! My Rights!" when they're unwilling to be reminded of their responsibilities.

Let see... put a little plastic dish pan in your back pack. Fill it at the drinking fountain. Wash feet.

Problem solved.

stresseater · 06-19-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Anybody that would like to use the footbaths may do so.

Quote:

How long before the CAIR starts agitating to make the foot-bath-equipped restrooms "muslim-only", because of defilement ( meaning kuffir have used any part of them... ) ?

Oh Jolie you beat me to the punch. That was going to be my question....Do people REALLY believe the Muslims will allow unclean people to use them for anything without pitching a fit? I sure don't.

Jolie Rouge · 06-19-2007, 01:13 AM

$25,000 on the footbaths versus $1.99 for plastic tubs

You do the math....

TMT · 06-19-2007, 01:13 PM

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the filthy kuffirs begin "defiling" the footbaths as soon as they are installed.

These are college students we're talking about....