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Old 02-01-2007, 05:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
tngirl
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Thumbs down The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

I've been mulling over an NBC Nightly News report from Iraq last Friday in which a number of soldiers expressed frustration with opposition to war in the United States.

I'm sure the soldiers were expressing a majority opinion common amongst the ranks - that's why it is news - and I'm also sure no one in the military leadership or the administration put the soldiers up to expressing their views, nor steered NBC reporter Richard Engel to the story.

I'm all for everyone expressing their opinion, even those who wear the uniform of the United States Army. But I also hope that military commanders took the soldiers aside after the story and explained to them why it wasn't for them to disapprove of the American people.
Friday's NBC Nightly News included a story from my colleague and friend Richard Engel, who was embedded with an active duty Army infantry battalion from Fort Lewis, Washington.

Engel relayed how "troops here say they are increasingly frustrated by American criticism of the war. Many take it personally, believing it is also criticism of what they've been fighting for."

First up was 21 year old junior enlisted man Tyler Johnson, whom Engel said was frustrated about war skepticism and thinks that critics "should come over and see what it's like firsthand before criticizing."

"You may support or say we support the troops, but, so you're not supporting what they do, what they're here sweating for, what we bleed for, what we die for. It just don't make sense to me," Johnson said.

Next up was Staff Sergeant Manuel Sahagun, who is on his second tour in Iraq. He complained that "one thing I don't like is when people back home say they support the troops, but they don't support the war. If they're going to support us, support us all the way."

Next was Specialist Peter Manna: "If they don't think we're doing a good job, everything that we've done here is all in vain," he said.

These soldiers should be grateful that the American public, which by all polls overwhelmingly disapproves of the Iraq war and the President's handling of it, do still offer their support to them, and their respect.

Through every Abu Ghraib and Haditha, through every rape and murder, the American public has indulged those in uniform, accepting that the incidents were the product of bad apples or even of some administration or command order.

Sure, it is the junior enlisted men who go to jail. But even at anti-war protests, the focus is firmly on the White House and the policy. We don't see very many "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.

So, we pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?

I can imagine some post-9/11 moment, when the American people say enough already with the wars against terrorism and those in the national security establishment feel these same frustrations. In my little parable, those in leadership positions shake their heads that the people don't get it, that they don't understand that the threat from terrorism, while difficult to defeat, demands commitment and sacrifice and is very real because it is so shadowy, that the very survival of the United States is at stake. Those Hoovers and Nixons will use these kids in uniform as their soldiers. If it weren't about the United States, I'd say the story would end with a military coup where those in the know, and those with fire in their bellies, would save the nation from the people.

But it is the United States, and the recent NBC report is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.

The notion of dirty work is that, like laundry, it is something that has to be done but no one else wants to do it. But Iraq is not dirty work: it is not some necessary endeavor; the people just don't believe that anymore.

I'll accept that the soldiers, in order to soldier on, have to believe that they are manning the parapet, and that's where their frustrations come in. I'll accept as well that they are young and naïve and are frustrated with their own lack of progress and the never changing situation in Iraq. Cut off from society and constantly told that everyone supports them, no wonder the debate back home confuses them.

America needs to ponder what it is we really owe those in uniform. I don't believe America needs a draft though I imagine we'd be having a different discussion if we had one.

By William M. Arkin | January 30, 2007; 8:51 AM ET
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Angry Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

This makes me want to throw up. I am so angry, I can't even think straight enough to reply to that piece of uninformed drivel. My family has sacrificed so much I can't even begin to tell you. We aren't rolling in the dough and not every military person makes a decent wage. Tricare is a joke, I spent 2 years getting them to pay secondary benefits on my son's speech therapy. My husband nearly died and this SOB has some nerve calling him a mercenary. He doesn't want to ever have to kill anyone, but he may someday have to do just that so this piece of slime can have the freedom to write his nonsense.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

Trust me, you aren't alone in the way you feel about this editorial.

I Would Love To Kick This Guy’s Ass!!

i’m glad arkin wrote it

One word for William Arkin

William Arkin: narcissistic tool
http://geoff82.wordpress.com/2007/02...cissitic-tool/

On Arrogance And Intolerance

William Arkin is an asshat

Arkin digging the hole deeper…and deeper

The Left Wants our Soldiers to SHUT UP!!!!!! [UPDATE]
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

What a bunch of garbage. These men have every right, if not more to speak their minds with their disgust, seeing how it is they, and they alone who are fighting to ensure the every day person has the right to speak their minds. Once again proves that there are very few who can honestly support the troops, and not support what they are doing. Period.

Quote:
We don't see very many "baby killer" epithets being thrown around these days, no one in uniform is being spit upon.
Except for the times it happened this last weekend in the so called peace rallies held by some very angey and not so peaceful people.
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Old 02-01-2007, 11:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

If you liked his first column, you will *love* his response ...

The Arrogant and Intolerant Speak Out

Well, one thing's abundantly clear about who will actually defend our rights to say what we believe: It isn't the hundreds who have written me saying they are soldiers or veterans or war supporters or real Americans -- who also advise me to move to another country, to get f@##d, or to die a painful, violent death.

Contrary to the typically inaccurate and overstated assertion in dozens of blogs, hundreds of comments, and thousands of e-mails I've received, I've never written that soldiers should "shut up," quit whining, be spit upon, or that they have no right to an opinion.

I said I was bothered by the notion that "the troops" were somehow becoming hallowed beings above society, that they had an attitude that only they had the means - or the right - to judge the worthiness of the Iraq endeavor.

I was dead wrong in using the word mercenary to describe the American soldier today.

These men and women are not fighting for money with little regard for the nation. The situation might be much worse than that: Evidently, far too many in uniform believe that they are the one true nation. They hide behind the constitution and the flag and then spew an anti-Democrat, anti-liberal, anti-journalism, anti-dissent, and anti-citizen message that reflects a certain contempt for the American people.

What I've heard ever since my article "The Troops Also Need to Support the American People" was published on Tuesday are a lot of people telling ME to shut up and be grateful for the sacrifices others are making.

I never said we shouldn't support the troops. I just lamented that "we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?"

Thousands have written telling me to "shut up and quit whining," that the troops do support the American people - "with their lives."

I can't respond to everyone individually - keep the cards and letters coming though, I do read them - but I'll try to tease out of the comments some themes that confirm in my mind the difficult state that this impossible war has put us.

TR writes "you're an America hater and a friend of our enemies."

JS writes that "this country is in the fight of its life. Terrorists are attempting to establish a world-wide caliphate. And you tell us we DON'T need to stop them."

And adds MEJ: "Cowards like you guarantee that my grandchildren will be fighting a war someday because we of the generation were too cowardly and comfortable to be honest about the world around us."

These are opinions about the war in Iraq and the "war" against terrorism. They aren't facts. I understand people need to believe that the United States is engaged in a grand and noble mission to continue to support the deaths and sacrifices being made by American forces. Nonetheless, there is also an equally valid opinion that not only is the United States NOT involved in some fight for our lives in Iraq but that our military actions merely increases and complicates our insecurities tomorrow.

An army Major with the 1st Cavalry in Baghdad writes: "there is no way to accurately opine about the war unless you've been on the ground."

KJ (and many others) adds that I am just "sitting in the lap of luxury that is the United States."

Again, I understand the frustration of those in uniform and the supporters of the war. But these are not the only people who have a valid opinion, and there is great danger for the nation - as Bush-Cheney and company have already demonstrated - when people arrogate to themselves the sole determinant to make a judgment about national security.

The Army Major goes on to say that "soldiers -- unlike journalists -- have values inculcated from the very beginning of basic training."

D speaks of "last week's leftist freak show in D.C." to describe anti-war protest.

KC questions how I could jeopardize the "safety and morale of those who lay their young and noble lives on the line for you and your ilk."

Too many to count denounced me (and my ilk) for being elitist, arrogant, exclusive, a Washington a@$*hole or worse, above-it-all, and superior.

Given that I spent so much of my time in this column every week railing about Washington myself, the dismissal is hilarious. But there is such contempt for civil society in these words and I wonder where it comes from?

As the Major says, something is inculcated into the minds of military members from day one of duty. It is not just defense of the Constitution, it is also unanimity of thought and an unwavering regard for hierarchy. Without this, you can't have a military and you can't expect human beings to go against their instincts to put their lives on the line.

I'm not saying that this makes people in the military automatons, or that they are stupid. But this unanimity of thought and this absolute allegiance to a hierarchy of ideas is and should be foreign in the civilian world. That's what makes the two different.

I hesitate to describe the military "attitude" about the world, or to even apply some negative connotation to the assertion that the military, from the Pentagon on down to the lowest platoon assumes a singular worldview.

But Major TW from Baghdad describes the world as he sees it and condemns me for my dissent:

"Iraq is only a mistake if, like Vietnam, we don't finish the job. Your sloppy logic at the end of your piece belies your agenda. You write Iraq, 'is not some necessary endeavor, the people just don't believe that anymore.' Would invading Europe in 1944 been a "necessary endeavor" if the American people had not believed it? How about maintaining West Berlin in the 1970s? And what about Somalia in the 1990s? Pulling out following the Blackhawk Down incident arguably emboldened bin Laden and played a hand in 9/11. With the benefit of hindsight should we have stayed? Even if it cost more American lives it might have saved 3000 years later."

The Major asks a terrific question as to what it says about our society that 3,000 lives are not considered "worth it" and I'll develop some thoughts on this in the future.

But what does it say about our current political and military leadership?

Bush and company, and the Abizaid's, Casey's, and Petraeus's have had years to make their case to the American people that the threat is so great and the mission so noble that the sacrifice is worth it. They clearly have failed to make their case and that is why the majority of Americans no longer support the war.

The notion then that we should defer to the military to fight when and how and where they want is absurd. As the debate about the Iraq war demonstrates, war-making is a shared endeavor and the arrogant and intolerant few who think they are above the people seem to be those who are wearing the uniform.

By William M. Arkin | February 1, 2007; 9:39 AM ET
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/early...lerant_sp.html


The "comments" section is ... enlightening
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Old 02-02-2007, 12:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

Quote:
Originally Posted by tngirl View Post
The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

I've been mulling over an NBC Nightly News report from Iraq last Friday in which a number of soldiers expressed frustration with opposition to war in the United States.

I'm sure the soldiers were expressing a majority opinion common amongst the ranks - that's why it is news - and I'm also sure no one in the military leadership or the administration put the soldiers up to expressing their views, nor steered NBC reporter Richard Engel to the story.
To view the NBC Nightly News story on US troops in Iraq ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyqk1LsCDBQ&eurl=
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Old 02-02-2007, 04:51 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

But how many soldiers with opposite views were spotlighted. The media picks and chooses what it wants us to hear. They alone decide what is news and believe me they have their own agendas.

How many of us say Bushes speech. Did no one notice how he dissed the way our elected officals add pork to important bills to get them passed. The very next day as it was being discussed and voted on it was the Democrats that shot it down NOT the republicans. Yet if you listen to the media it is the republicans that cause all our countrys troubles.

When Clinton was in office and the stock market was doing well. They praised him. Yet the stock market has been doing better than it had yet noone is sayiing thanks to Bush.

I am not a Bush fan. I am also an independant voter who votes the man not the party. But I must say thank goodness we are in the middle east because Iran is out of control. Hamas is supported by iran as well as those forces in Iraq that want to do away with the US. Egypt is looking into nuclear weapons because of Iran wanting to be the big Kahuna in the middle east.
It is a mess that started more than 20 years ago.

We as a nation need to stop the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality. It just gets us into more trouble.

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Old 02-02-2007, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

)

Regardless of where you stand on the issue of the U.S.
involvement in Iraq, here's a sobering statistic. There has
been a monthly average of 160,000 troops in the Iraq
theatre of operations during the last 22 months, and a
total of 2,112 deaths. That gives a firearm death rate
of 60 per 100,000 soldiers.

The firearm death rate in Washington D.C. is 80.6 per
100,000 persons for the same period. That means that
you are about 25% more likely to be shot and killed in
the U.S. Capital than you are in Iraq.

Conclusion: The U.S. should pull out of Washington.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

just my 0.02

Our troops both past and present, no matter how they feel about their missions, are the reason people in this country are free to say that they oppose the war. Or support the war. The Service Men & Women of our country should be thanked every time someone opens their mouth to voice their opinion or writes a letter to the editor regardless of which side they're on; those brave men and women are the reason we're able to do this.
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Old 02-02-2007, 01:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

That just pisses me off. A lot of the boys I know (at least at the MCAS in Beaufort) that've returned from Iraq and Afghanistan talk about how they feel like people were just blowing smoke up their butt to stab them in the back.
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:38 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: The Troops Also Need to Support the American People

After the first article, I couldn't even read Jolie's post. The guy has NO clue what he's talking about. Decent wages? My husband sat down once and figured out what his hourly wage would be if he worked a civilian job and it came out to less than $2 an hour. I know too many families who can't pay their bills, buy groceries, etc. Before anyone says it, a few of them need to learn how to budget and to stop having kids but there are families who do budget and still can't pay their bills.
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